Sorry your old meter wasn’t working properly. You get to eat that loss, not the customer. The customer shouldn’t be on the hook just because you can’t maintain your equipment. Also, it’s going to be hard for you to prove the actual 12 months of usage claimed when you’re already admitting that the meter was faulty.
@@perryallan3524 But how do they know the meter was faulty. They wouldn't know until after the meter was replaced and the old meter tested. Still, faulty meters should fall on the gas company, not the customer. It was made legal by the utility lobby in Congre$$.
Actually some states allow up to 3 years…. The burden is on the utility to prove. Be thankful you are not in Canada. There is not limitation how far back they can rebill. I do sympathize but what is the accounts true usage. They could have been a discount for years. And who makes that up. Their neighbors.
@@philiplubduck6107 California has rolling “brown outs” it’s when there is a high usage demand the government shuts off your power for a limited time. Doesn’t matter if you’re paid up or not…those digital meters have that technology!
Autoshut offs are pretty normal. Generally they're separate but you can incorporate them with meters. Basically if they reach 100% flow which would indicate a leak they can shut off preventing too much gas from escaping. The extra valves though mean that is another failure point and the whole meter might need replaced if the valve starts leaking.
As a private home owner people are free to have their own meter installed after the meter and may use these meters to help dispute transactions from utility providers.
No they are not. You can install a sub-meter, say for your workshop or guest home, but the main meter to the property belongs to and is installed by the utility.
@@danburch9989 short answer is yes you are free to install a secondary meter. Of course all states are different and municipalities have different rules. However, homeowners are free to have a licensed gas fitter/plumber install a privately owned meter which could be used to dispute a bill. Thank you for your feed back however incorrect it is.
That's what I was gonna suggest. You can't remove their meter but yes you can install your own after theirs. Also if you're property can fit it you can throw your own propane tank and convert but that's a whole mission. And not everyone can do that.
@@bogey19018 Over the last 2 years, our gas budget has declined significantly. Down about 50% since Mid 2023 and now it's down to the same level at is was all of 2021. We pay on a budget so it's pretty easy to keep track of. We are heating the same 4000 sq foot living spaces with the same furnaces and water heater that we've had for well over a decade. Our electric has done the same. The usage is nearly the same or only slightly less but the cost per kWhr has dropped a lot since 2022. All seems to coincide with the end of covid restrictions and associated price gouging.
@@rosameryrojas-delcerro1059 Even if the place is empty you still want to keep the temperatures around 50. You dont' want things to happen like freezing pipes.
@@SCP_Gate-Guardian Watch the whole video stupid. Maybe even read a couple of articles on it too... they're ripping off thousands of people and if it becomes a class action, they're boned - deny, deny, deny.
How would installing a new meter have any ability to show, at all, that the prior meter was inaccurate? That representation makes no sense at all, and I don’t see how they could possibly prove that isn’t being made in bad faith. If they are willing to come forward with that whopper, why should anybody believe their numbers with respect to the underbillings?
Every Gas Co. is different I will speak of the one I know, when the old meter is returned to the shop it is calibrated and if it is found to be off, then they know by how much. First no one really has a large bill in the summer unless you heat a pool, but if your bill is exactly 13.13 dollars a month year around, there is a big problem, that is when the gas co. send someone out to pull the meter.
They can show the meter was malfunctioning but they would need to look at past billing and usage to determine if there was a noticeable drop in usage. Say one summer you paid $100 a month but then your usage dropped to $50 and after you replaced the meter it went back up to $100 a month. You could argue that the usage was always $100 a month and that the faulty meter was the cause of the drop. Of course the customer should be able to contest these findings as there might be other reasons for the bill dropping. The gas company doesn't want to show their work to customers and are trying to strong arm them into paying. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A .1% failure rate on the new sensors isn't unheard of and some of the older meters were probably failing but the gas company is shooting itself in the foot by not investigating what the actual cause is. The first thing they should do is swap the meter out to see if the meter is malfunctioning, given the 600 customers that are already complaining this is a necessity. Then once they determine the meters are functioning properly they can show customers how they came to their numbers on back billing. Then they can negotiate a payment plan if necessary.
It doesn`t read my comment on top RETIRED FROM THE NATURAL GAS BUSINESS. the only way that a gas company can assess your projected usage is to collect your appliance MAX BTU RATINGS at the time they install a meter house or apartment . The tech will collect those and enter them in your customer profile ...let us say that your house heater consumes 100 thousand BUT PER HOUR ...and your water heater 40 thousand per hour and the oven/top burners another 50 thousand when all on.... you maximum consumption per hour if they are all on for one solid hour non stop is 199.7 thousands BTU ...nearly TWO THERMS ...a THERM is 100 thousands BTU more precisely 99976.1...round out 199.7 cubic feet . So to test this on your own would require you to turn everything on for an hour ...but that is not practical that is why STATES WHICH PROTECT CUSTOMER REQUIRE THAT GAS METERS BE TESETED FOR ACCURACY at facilities designed specifically for it in some states they are operated by the UTILITY ITSELF with state inspector monitoring That is how HONEST STATE DO IT ....then there are BIDEN STATES.🤣😂😂🤣
When a company does something it is NOT going to benefit you. They do it because it means more money for the company, not lower bills for you. PERIOD! Do you honestly think CEO's and board members sit around and discuss how they can lower their profits by lowering customers bills?
The same thing happens with government. Here they want to replace gas tax with mileage tax. People think they will pay less because they "don't drive much". Meanwhile the state plans on TRIPPLING the amount of revenue and they even publish this in their annual report that mileage tax will generate three times the revenue that gas tax generates but people won't see it as they go, only when they get the bill and it's to late to effect it. Any time they make paying easy and "transaction less", you are paying more. They did this with road tolls where you no longer hand them money at the toll booth when you exit or enter, they just swipe it out of your account and you don't realize that you paid a $30 toll.
About 15 years ago same thing happened when they were still Laclede gas. It turned out to be defective power supply in the drive by meters they had installed and took years for them to fix it. Of course they seldom made customers whole for their mistakes then to.
This is every so called "smart meters". They're designed to charge you More . Be willing to take utilities to court because you don't want their stupid meter legal action against them in court is cheaper in the long run
Translation the government told them they need more tax money. Do you want to be a real prick whatever extra money they say is past due sue them that much +10 times the amount for emotional and psychological damages
Literally the only reason they have to want to switch peoples perfectly good meters so fast is because they are making more off the new ones. Sue them to oblivion
When Spire told me that they're going to move my meter, my first thought was switching to electric. It would be a major hassle to move the meter and they want to put it where I have a workbench and shelves set up now. I'd just rather move to electric. I'm just about ready to get a new AC anyway.
@@DavidCrow-i5i Hey, David. I'm not sure I understand. It's not about the money for me - it never was. It's about the hassle. Moving the meter from where it is now to the side of the house would require two very large holes in my yard, two holes in my foundation (on a 120+ year old house) and would require me to move a lot of shelves and equipment. It would be a MAJOR hassle. The last time Squire dug up my front yard, my basement leaked for the first time in 20 years. Squire has been a pain in the ass since I moved into the city and I'd be very happy to discontinue business with them. If that means heating costs me more every month, I am fine with that.
The trouble is how do they know how much the old meter was broken? Was it off by 10 or 100 or 1000? Unless they calibrate it on the spot or maintain a chain of custody there is no way they can prove how far the meter was off. Knowing workers they swapped out the meter and tossed the old one in a box to send to a recycler. 8 more to change today before I can go home.
This happened to me 20 years ago when the gas company estimated my bill for 16 months in a row. When they came to read it, they discovered their mistake and my next bill reflected all of the previous 16 months under estimated gas. I was on a budget so I was pissed. It took pulling teeth to discover that the mistake was their fault for not reading the meter. It was the principal and not that I couldn't pay the overage so I paid the entire overage that month. It is illegal for the gas company to estimate a bill for more than 6 months and they had done it for 16 months, screwing me in the process. I told them I wanted a new meter because I didn't believe that their meter was accurate. They flat out refused insisting their meter was accurate and I owed the money. So imagine my surprise when the next month my bill was STILL 8 times my average bill for the past several years. I called and argued and they stood by their bill and the overage. I again insisted that it was not possible that I used that much gas. They walked me through all of the ways I could use gas and were shocked when they found out that only the water heater was gas but still insisted I used 8 times the gas. I quickly realized that again, they were STILL estimating my bill and because it was averaged on the past X number of billing cycles and the LAST one was hundreds of dollars, so the estimate was high by a long shot. I paid them double what my average monthly bill was instead of the billing amount, figuring it would average down on it's own. I was frustrated that their "billing professionals" couldn't figure all of this out and I was left to figure it out. They called and threatened me for under paying my bill and I told them that they again estimated my bill and I didn't owe them the amount. The were angry with me and I told them that was all I was paying them. Next month, a repeat only the estimate was lower because, well, MATH. So when my bill finally averaged out to be less than the $20 each month that I had been paying them and THEY owed ME money, they called and insisted the gas meter was faulty and wanted to replace it. I refused and said if it was accurate when you billed me for hundreds of dollars of gas and it was in your favor, then it's equally accurate NOW that it's in my favor. Still they persisted. Eventually they installed a remote read meter and read it every other month but my bill did not change. LOL I don't know what it is about the gas industry that the people are so incompetent but it seems to be a problem.
Spire is going to find out that lawsuits are expensive, and lawyer's that are smart will pounce and have a few meters removed and tested and times that by the number of meters,you get a big number.
They will come out and replace the meters and dispose of the old ones once they receive notice of a lawsuit. The lawyers won't ever get a chance to test them they are considered property of the utilities company and can not be tampered with or removed without permission.
Regarding bills. If it is the utility companies responsibility (like broken meters etc) to check/maintain them, then consumers should never be held liable for over/under payment, since most of us have no clue how to even identify if the thing is/isn't working properly. Notice, they are not giving back the cash to the consumers that OVER paid. Those consumers probably don't even know they did.
The only way the utility company could tell that the old meter wasn't working properly is if there were no changes in meter readings from month to month even though gas was being consumed. But then, how would they then have been able to tell how much gas had actually been used?
Typical apology letter from another scammer. If none of those folks reported that issue, they would keep supercharging them all! What you can also do is call a plumber and ask them to install a separate flow meter on the gas line to measure your consumption. That way, you won't get screwed..
He admitted that 600 people are having issues. That's something the company should take notice of. small percentages with a large customer base means you still have a large number of people experiencing issues.
I guess before installing all these new meters , there was no demo- site from Spire to determine as a basis if the new meters performed as they should have ? I would bet there was not. Doubtful Spire will not have data or will back up their product to be installed was defective . Maybe there should be an update from the First Alert 4 investigation .
The meters come with a calibration certificate (no meter is shipped unless calibrated). In general its rare for a new calibrated meter to be off by much. However, even new meters fail - and there could be a few bad ones here and there. The guy with the condo who is not living there should be able to get his meter replaced with another and have his "old" new meter tested.
@@KevinDick-h6f I know this because I have spent much of my working life with Utilities and Power Plants. We never buy and install instruments unless they are calibrated. Unfortunately, a few (very small fraction of a %) of new instruments fail early. No machine with more than 1 part is perfect (1 part paperweights and several other simple 1 part items are exceptionally reliable).
What in the love of humanity is a customer experience team in a monopoly. Perhaps they should hire a quality assurance team and everyone’s experience will be better.
I saw those videos too. I'm wondering if these meters and the Chinese ones, have a manufacturer in common. In which case they should be voided from being a "witness" to usage, since they have the in built capabilities for defrauding the consumer.
They went from estimated bills in the winter to overbilling with new meters? We all need heat pumps and electric on solar. Let;s make the power industry be for the business industry
they make solar powered mini split heat pumps now, people need to work on kicking these utilities to the curb because the priced are never going to stop going up
This sounds like defective meters, I know of a gas company that went out installed millions of them, they were defective and they all had to be switched back out. Everyone complain to the media and the PUC.
This always happens in states where the GAS COMPANIES are not properly regulated . GAS meters when replaced in states that protect consumers are dial tested ...even digital ones ....and moreover in states where there is real consumer protection Gas companies are required to periodically change meters every 7 years and those that are brought back in are tested for accuracy . However ....being a retired GAS Company employ ...with VAST AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE .on this subject ...I caution people in states that offer little protection to the utility users ..to not trust any new technology meter and have an hour meter installed on the ir heating and domestic hot water appliances, specifically the burner circuit . When these are activated the hour meter will record the length of time that the gas burner/s are engaged for , a simple multiplication of time to FIXED FIRING RATE the APPLIANCE BUT RATING ...[ all residential systems are fixed firing BUT rated ...only industrial commercial system have variable firing rates ] yields the amount of cubic feet used by those appliances ... residential cooking appliances use not more that 50 thousand BUT per hour that is if all the top burner and oven are on all at once ...they do not on their own contribute to high bills . HEATING AND DOMESTIC HOT WATER ARE ...the main users ..15 to 30 % of a gas bill is domestic hot water depending on usage 1 to 4 % is cooking ...again depending on usage ...the rest is heating . Armed monthly with a calculation of BTU used you can then compare it to a meter reading ...from a base reading at the start of the cycle . A THERM ...is a unit of Natural GAS ..equal to 100 thousand BUT more precisely 99976.1 therefore ...at averages of 1000 BTU to 1038 BTU per cubit foot depending on how the utility company claims to deliver to you ...the calculation is simple HOURS LAPSED X APPLIANCE BUT RATING = EQUALS BTU USED DIVED BY 1000 OR 1038 EQUAL CUBIC FEET ...A METER HAS 5 DIGITS ... RIGHT TO LEFT ..1000 CCF 10.000 CCF 100.000 CCF 1.000.000 CCF ...some may find this difficult but it is really not that difficult ...it is simple math and will give you an edge as a consumer ...good luck to all of you who live in states which do not protect you adequately and allow GAS UITILITIES TO PULL CRAP like this video shows ...abysmally dishonest.
@@alexc4300 WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR TITANIC IS OKAY BY ME !!! BUT MOST PEOPLE NEED TO START AT THE GROUND FLOOR TO FULLY GET THE CONCEPT OF THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT EXIST BETWEEN CUBIC FEET TO BTU , THEMS ETC ....AND HOW THEY ARE BILLED . KEEP YOUR BINOCULARS FOG FREE .... DON`T HIT ANY ICEBERGS ...
Have a licensed electrician wire in a second meter between the company's meter and the rest of the house and make sure the second meter is one of the good old certified analog meters. So you can collect evidence of your true power consumption.
Friend of mine had it installed in central wi. Bought all new energy efficient appliances. Got his new bill down to about $100. That lasted 2 months, they changed it back to the old style(without telling him) and bill went back up. He called, they denied changing it back. Even with photo proof.
A fine example as to why I 'opted out' on ALL of my utility meters. Water, gas, electric.... every one of them wanted to install 'smart meters'.... I opted out and 'self report' my readings.
If you think the meter is reading wrong you can hire a flow meter calibration company to validate the meter readings. All they would do is place the calibration meter in line with the utility own and conpare reading.
Here in New York State the electric smart meters are being installed and we're hearing that some folks are pointing out new bills that are out of their normal history. I wish you all good luckin getting them to fix the meters and waive the overages.
I live in Washington State where PSE handles all the gas delivery. I had an old friend who was pretty high up in the utility and she told me once that they get together sometimes behind closed doors and pay for massive lunches including lobster and gourmet chefs. They actually have rate increase meetings and laugh about how easy it is to rip customers off. She said they once discussed how they could help people by lowering the bills and that person was almost fired for even thinking that way.
I worked for a utility company for over 20 years. The old bellows meters NEVER failed by reading too high. They slow down, not speed up. However, they don't fail drastically. The new meters are probably faulty, and should be forced to be measured by the state's weights and measurement department. If even 2% of the new meters are faulty, ALL of the customers charged for past unproven 'usage' should be refunded with interest. This sounds very fishy to me.
State inspection and calibration is needed. Gas stations are regularly tested by the state and certified for accuracy (look for the stickers on the pumps). Time for water electricity and gas inspection and fined for non compliance.
I worked for the southern California gas company for 34 years and we always sent out a meter reader to double check an increase in usage and if the read was correct a service tech would go out to check for problems. We also had to change the meters every so often to ensure a correct meter was installed by puc regulations. Apparently, your gas company is inept
this is the same thing that has happened to our electric meters and our water meters here in TX... all our bills went up and all they do is claim the old meters were reading wrong
We got bill showing no thing due. We called gas company to find out and was told we had a credit on our account. Current bill still shows credit and nothing due. I hope they do not suddenly decide we owe a bunch of money!
samething happened to 720 Shennendoah in 2019....you are right about this bullshiite company. We had a sober house of responsible men and we took the hit because of a prudent reserve but what about the families who cannot afford. Spire can suck an egg
One thing for sure is, the meter is defective. But the Spire need to enhance their yearly income so they need a meter that magically manipulate their gas price. With the new meter it can be done remotely no need for the customers permission, just bill them no matter what.
Missouri needs to change that law regarding back billing. To NO back billing can be done unless provider can prove customer manipulated service meter to malfunction.
how can they prove you where under billed if they didn't have it metered correctly.
Algorithms and AI with sprinkles of corporate bullshit makes it we win and you lose, don't you know.
and like the public relations AI there is a chance the AI is making things up when it doesn't have data
Boom. In court that's called Burden of proof. Corporations think they can do whatever they like.
@@agentalucard I agree
They probably tested the old meters to see how far off they are. Then they assumed the current discrepancy applies to prior months, which is bogus.
Weights and Measures should be called in.
Lonely housewives agree.
Calibrated differently, new electric meters have same defect. It’s a clever way to screw the customer
Yup and it's really to simple to hack those meters too.
Have a video link? 😅@@johnstaton5524
you shouldn't be burning fossil fuels to heat your home anyway
@@BelRayOtter-ek9qk there is no such thing as fossil fuels. You can’t get petroleum from bones
@@BelRayOtter-ek9qkGo be cold and miserable then
You should NEVER be allowed to back bill. The back bill was never metered.
Incorrect billing to cover the labor to swap out the meters. Wait until they start surge charging during peak times.
Sorry your old meter wasn’t working properly. You get to eat that loss, not the customer. The customer shouldn’t be on the hook just because you can’t maintain your equipment. Also, it’s going to be hard for you to prove the actual 12 months of usage claimed when you’re already admitting that the meter was faulty.
Most States allow back billing for 6-12 months if there is solid evidence of an incorrect meter. Totally legal.
@@perryallan3524 True. Legal does not mean ethical, but you keep hiding behind your precious human-made laws. Fuck this POS species.
@@perryallan3524 But how do they know the meter was faulty. They wouldn't know until after the meter was replaced and the old meter tested. Still, faulty meters should fall on the gas company, not the customer. It was made legal by the utility lobby in Congre$$.
Actually some states allow up to 3 years…. The burden is on the utility to prove. Be thankful you are not in Canada. There is not limitation how far back they can rebill. I do sympathize but what is the accounts true usage. They could have been a discount for years. And who makes that up. Their neighbors.
Auto shut off..?
That means they can turn you off when they want to….even if you’re not late.
No it’s just for when you’re late. Internet can be cut off at any time either but it’s only for when you’re late. No reason to not make income.
@@philiplubduck6107
California has rolling “brown outs” it’s when there is a high usage demand the government shuts off your power for a limited time.
Doesn’t matter if you’re paid up or not…those digital meters have that technology!
Of course utility companies don't make mistakes, and glitches don't happen, right?
Autoshut offs are pretty normal. Generally they're separate but you can incorporate them with meters. Basically if they reach 100% flow which would indicate a leak they can shut off preventing too much gas from escaping. The extra valves though mean that is another failure point and the whole meter might need replaced if the valve starts leaking.
@@philiplubduck6107no, your wrong. If they don't like you, they have control now. Google social credit score.
A class action lawsuit will change their tune instantly!
For what?!?! If the new meters are correct, then what? I’ll sue to keep my discount that all other constituents are paying for?
Prove it! You can’t bill someone for product or services when you cannot prove that they were provided.
As a private home owner people are free to have their own meter installed after the meter and may use these meters to help dispute transactions from utility providers.
No they are not. You can install a sub-meter, say for your workshop or guest home, but the main meter to the property belongs to and is installed by the utility.
@@danburch9989 short answer is yes you are free to install a secondary meter. Of course all states are different and municipalities have different rules. However, homeowners are free to have a licensed gas fitter/plumber install a privately owned meter which could be used to dispute a bill. Thank you for your feed back however incorrect it is.
That's what I was gonna suggest. You can't remove their meter but yes you can install your own after theirs. Also if you're property can fit it you can throw your own propane tank and convert but that's a whole mission. And not everyone can do that.
@@mattcervantes8476 ooh that’s a good idea with the propane tank.
Upper Michigan here, my usage is down and my bill is up - go figure
Bidenomics.
@@bogey19018 Over the last 2 years, our gas budget has declined significantly. Down about 50% since Mid 2023 and now it's down to the same level at is was all of 2021. We pay on a budget so it's pretty easy to keep track of. We are heating the same 4000 sq foot living spaces with the same furnaces and water heater that we've had for well over a decade.
Our electric has done the same. The usage is nearly the same or only slightly less but the cost per kWhr has dropped a lot since 2022. All seems to coincide with the end of covid restrictions and associated price gouging.
@@skygazer858 Not mine. I pay A LOT more for everything thanks to bidenomics.
@@bogey19018it’s working
Compare price per unit from old and new bill. Nat gas has varying prices just like gas at the pump.
Dude's lying through his teeth... yeah, options... you mean payment plans?
You provide zero evidence that he's lying
The second guy (condo) isn't even living in the place (he's in RhodeIsland) and he is allegedly still uses gas with a whopping bill...
@@rosameryrojas-delcerro1059 Even if the place is empty you still want to keep the temperatures around 50. You dont' want things to happen like freezing pipes.
@@supernova743 Only the stove is gas.. Sooo unless he is using his STOVE to heat the house there shouldn't be a bill.
@@SCP_Gate-Guardian Watch the whole video stupid. Maybe even read a couple of articles on it too... they're ripping off thousands of people and if it becomes a class action, they're boned - deny, deny, deny.
Tech troubles or greed issues? Someone has to pay for the CEO's 4th summer home
How would installing a new meter have any ability to show, at all, that the prior meter was inaccurate? That representation makes no sense at all, and I don’t see how they could possibly prove that isn’t being made in bad faith. If they are willing to come forward with that whopper, why should anybody believe their numbers with respect to the underbillings?
Yeah, but he said that with such a straight face🤣🤣. How can you doubt him?
It actually doesn't they are using AI predictions to guess
Every Gas Co. is different I will speak of the one I know, when the old meter is returned to the shop it is calibrated and if it is found to be off, then they know by how much. First no one really has a large bill in the summer unless you heat a pool, but if your bill is exactly 13.13 dollars a month year around, there is a big problem, that is when the gas co. send someone out to pull the meter.
They can show the meter was malfunctioning but they would need to look at past billing and usage to determine if there was a noticeable drop in usage. Say one summer you paid $100 a month but then your usage dropped to $50 and after you replaced the meter it went back up to $100 a month. You could argue that the usage was always $100 a month and that the faulty meter was the cause of the drop. Of course the customer should be able to contest these findings as there might be other reasons for the bill dropping.
The gas company doesn't want to show their work to customers and are trying to strong arm them into paying. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. A .1% failure rate on the new sensors isn't unheard of and some of the older meters were probably failing but the gas company is shooting itself in the foot by not investigating what the actual cause is.
The first thing they should do is swap the meter out to see if the meter is malfunctioning, given the 600 customers that are already complaining this is a necessity. Then once they determine the meters are functioning properly they can show customers how they came to their numbers on back billing. Then they can negotiate a payment plan if necessary.
It doesn`t read my comment on top RETIRED FROM THE NATURAL GAS BUSINESS. the only way that a gas company can assess your projected usage is to collect your appliance MAX BTU RATINGS at the time they install a meter house or apartment . The tech will collect those and enter them in your customer profile ...let us say that your house heater consumes 100 thousand BUT PER HOUR ...and your water heater 40 thousand per hour and the oven/top burners another 50 thousand when all on.... you maximum consumption per hour if they are all on for one solid hour non stop is 199.7 thousands BTU ...nearly TWO THERMS ...a THERM is 100 thousands BTU more precisely 99976.1...round out 199.7 cubic feet . So to test this on your own would require you to turn everything on for an hour ...but that is not practical that is why STATES WHICH PROTECT CUSTOMER REQUIRE THAT GAS METERS BE TESETED FOR ACCURACY at facilities designed specifically for it in some states they are operated by the UTILITY ITSELF with state inspector monitoring
That is how HONEST STATE DO IT ....then there are BIDEN STATES.🤣😂😂🤣
When a company does something it is NOT going to benefit you. They do it because it means more money for the company, not lower bills for you. PERIOD! Do you honestly think CEO's and board members sit around and discuss how they can lower their profits by lowering customers bills?
The same thing happens with government. Here they want to replace gas tax with mileage tax. People think they will pay less because they "don't drive much". Meanwhile the state plans on TRIPPLING the amount of revenue and they even publish this in their annual report that mileage tax will generate three times the revenue that gas tax generates but people won't see it as they go, only when they get the bill and it's to late to effect it. Any time they make paying easy and "transaction less", you are paying more. They did this with road tolls where you no longer hand them money at the toll booth when you exit or enter, they just swipe it out of your account and you don't realize that you paid a $30 toll.
Customer experience team. Enjoy the experience of being lied to.
How else can we piss off customers, yes Steve, change our customer service name to customer “EXPERIENCE”😂
And no one will be held accountable ain't that special
@@nancyblanchard4744 A rule for thee but not for me.
Yeah they're working exactly as they intended setup to show more usage than really being used
Spot On!
They need to show how the gas bills are accurate or be sued for fraud. Or criminally charged.
About 15 years ago same thing happened when they were still Laclede gas. It turned out to be defective power supply in the drive by meters they had installed and took years for them to fix it. Of course they seldom made customers whole for their mistakes then to.
Even if they did make customers whole, it was a zero percent interest loan for years.
@@frotobaggins7169 for sure.
I remember . I had bumper stickers that read Laclede gas can kiss my 🫏 and I still have a couple
This is every so called "smart meters". They're designed to charge you More . Be willing to take utilities to court because you don't want their stupid meter legal action against them in court is cheaper in the long run
Translation the government told them they need more tax money.
Do you want to be a real prick whatever extra money they say is past due sue them that much +10 times the amount for emotional and psychological damages
Enhanced features like triple charging.
Literally the only reason they have to want to switch peoples perfectly good meters so fast is because they are making more off the new ones. Sue them to oblivion
No one’s bills went down……. Defective meters. What are the odds?
Heated my home with a wood stove for years. Some months more than others causing bill fluctuations. My meter was changed several times.
When Spire told me that they're going to move my meter, my first thought was switching to electric. It would be a major hassle to move the meter and they want to put it where I have a workbench and shelves set up now. I'd just rather move to electric. I'm just about ready to get a new AC anyway.
Moving to electric would be way worse and super expensive.
@@Warp2090 Even if that's true, I'd rather pay a little more than continue to del with Spire.
@@jeffreycdrywater Then the point is no longer about money.
@@DavidCrow-i5i Hey, David. I'm not sure I understand. It's not about the money for me - it never was. It's about the hassle. Moving the meter from where it is now to the side of the house would require two very large holes in my yard, two holes in my foundation (on a 120+ year old house) and would require me to move a lot of shelves and equipment. It would be a MAJOR hassle. The last time Squire dug up my front yard, my basement leaked for the first time in 20 years. Squire has been a pain in the ass since I moved into the city and I'd be very happy to discontinue business with them. If that means heating costs me more every month, I am fine with that.
The trouble is how do they know how much the old meter was broken? Was it off by 10 or 100 or 1000? Unless they calibrate it on the spot or maintain a chain of custody there is no way they can prove how far the meter was off. Knowing workers they swapped out the meter and tossed the old one in a box to send to a recycler. 8 more to change today before I can go home.
Sounds alot like those people in GA that got new water meters and being charged for water they weren't using because of faulty meters.
Considering it’s a gas meter that’s been talked about.
This happened to me 20 years ago when the gas company estimated my bill for 16 months in a row. When they came to read it, they discovered their mistake and my next bill reflected all of the previous 16 months under estimated gas. I was on a budget so I was pissed. It took pulling teeth to discover that the mistake was their fault for not reading the meter. It was the principal and not that I couldn't pay the overage so I paid the entire overage that month. It is illegal for the gas company to estimate a bill for more than 6 months and they had done it for 16 months, screwing me in the process. I told them I wanted a new meter because I didn't believe that their meter was accurate. They flat out refused insisting their meter was accurate and I owed the money. So imagine my surprise when the next month my bill was STILL 8 times my average bill for the past several years. I called and argued and they stood by their bill and the overage. I again insisted that it was not possible that I used that much gas. They walked me through all of the ways I could use gas and were shocked when they found out that only the water heater was gas but still insisted I used 8 times the gas. I quickly realized that again, they were STILL estimating my bill and because it was averaged on the past X number of billing cycles and the LAST one was hundreds of dollars, so the estimate was high by a long shot. I paid them double what my average monthly bill was instead of the billing amount, figuring it would average down on it's own. I was frustrated that their "billing professionals" couldn't figure all of this out and I was left to figure it out. They called and threatened me for under paying my bill and I told them that they again estimated my bill and I didn't owe them the amount. The were angry with me and I told them that was all I was paying them. Next month, a repeat only the estimate was lower because, well, MATH. So when my bill finally averaged out to be less than the $20 each month that I had been paying them and THEY owed ME money, they called and insisted the gas meter was faulty and wanted to replace it. I refused and said if it was accurate when you billed me for hundreds of dollars of gas and it was in your favor, then it's equally accurate NOW that it's in my favor. Still they persisted. Eventually they installed a remote read meter and read it every other month but my bill did not change. LOL I don't know what it is about the gas industry that the people are so incompetent but it seems to be a problem.
Spire is going to find out that lawsuits are expensive, and lawyer's that are smart will pounce and have a few meters removed and tested and times that by the number of meters,you get a big number.
They will come out and replace the meters and dispose of the old ones once they receive notice of a lawsuit. The lawyers won't ever get a chance to test them they are considered property of the utilities company and can not be tampered with or removed without permission.
If you put a regular meter in first and ran a smart meter off it, and into your home, could you prove we're being duped?
That actually might work
That was suggested. Though you would need to the foot the cost of having your own meter installed.
Regarding bills. If it is the utility companies responsibility (like broken meters etc) to check/maintain them, then consumers should never be held liable for over/under payment, since most of us have no clue how to even identify if the thing is/isn't working properly. Notice, they are not giving back the cash to the consumers that OVER paid. Those consumers probably don't even know they did.
The only way the utility company could tell that the old meter wasn't working properly is if there were no changes in meter readings from month to month even though gas was being consumed. But then, how would they then have been able to tell how much gas had actually been used?
Bullshit ❌. Corporate greed is immoral. 🙏
"Corporate greed is *IMMORTAL."* It never dies.
Why are reporters incapable of describing the problem adequately?
time constraints
care to make a video 5 minutes or less that explains everything?
Put on a calibrated meter on several houses and audit the metering. If they are in error, initiate a class action lawsuit.
"Technology" screws the customer again. These new meters are just another way to "control" your life.
It took 12 months to notice? Why not "fix the issue" and start charging the new amount the following billing cycle
This is back billing is BS. It’s their “broken” meter so how are any losses to them because of it the customer’s responsibility.
Typical apology letter from another scammer. If none of those folks reported that issue, they would keep supercharging them all!
What you can also do is call a plumber and ask them to install a separate flow meter on the gas line to measure your consumption. That way, you won't get screwed..
He admitted that 600 people are having issues. That's something the company should take notice of. small percentages with a large customer base means you still have a large number of people experiencing issues.
It sounds like they already tried their customer experience team and failed…😊
I guess before installing all these new meters , there was no demo- site from Spire to determine as a basis if the new meters performed as they should have ? I would bet there was not. Doubtful Spire will not have data or will back up their product to be installed was defective . Maybe there should be an update from the First Alert 4 investigation .
The meters come with a calibration certificate (no meter is shipped unless calibrated). In general its rare for a new calibrated meter to be off by much.
However, even new meters fail - and there could be a few bad ones here and there. The guy with the condo who is not living there should be able to get his meter replaced with another and have his "old" new meter tested.
@@perryallan3524 Well that's a detail that should have been included when the segment was aired . Thanks
@@KevinDick-h6f I know this because I have spent much of my working life with Utilities and Power Plants. We never buy and install instruments unless they are calibrated. Unfortunately, a few (very small fraction of a %) of new instruments fail early.
No machine with more than 1 part is perfect (1 part paperweights and several other simple 1 part items are exceptionally reliable).
Made in china gas meters
First happened there when they swapped to new meters.
What in the love of humanity is a customer experience team in a monopoly. Perhaps they should hire a quality assurance team and everyone’s experience will be better.
People in China were saying that gas companies were purposely inflating bills, this all has to go to court!
I saw those videos too. I'm wondering if these meters and the Chinese ones, have a manufacturer in common. In which case they should be voided from being a "witness" to usage, since they have the in built capabilities for defrauding the consumer.
It would be cheaper to shut off the gas and convert to electric
"Hear us out..." "No."
Hear our class action lawsuit then.
They went from estimated bills in the winter to overbilling with new meters? We all need heat pumps and electric on solar. Let;s make the power industry be for the business industry
The advanced meters are male bovine caca!!!!!!🐂💩
I was going to say exactly this! Take control of your power!
they make solar powered mini split heat pumps now, people need to work on kicking these utilities to the curb because the priced are never going to stop going up
This sounds like defective meters, I know of a gas company that went out installed millions of them, they were defective and they all had to be switched back out. Everyone complain to the media and the PUC.
not defective, they are working as intended. to make the utility more money
Were the meter really faulty or is this a scam
Show me a bill where they were being overcharged and you paid them back😂
Enough customers to file a Class Action.
I would contact an attorney and speak to an attorney about it
Same with smart meters. They charge different rates at different times of the day to enable them to charge you more.
Or time of year
Absolutely ridiculous. Fight it.
they are getting more money so it is a feature to them
BS. That utility company is corrupt.
One tenth of 1% of 1,200,000 customers is still 1200 customers.
Install ur own meter up the line from theirs. Its the only way u'll know for sure.
Are they refunding people that were over billed bet not
This always happens in states where the GAS COMPANIES are not properly regulated . GAS meters when replaced in states that protect consumers are dial tested ...even digital ones ....and moreover in states where there is real consumer protection Gas companies are required to periodically change meters every 7 years and those that are brought back in are tested for accuracy .
However ....being a retired GAS Company employ ...with VAST AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE .on this subject ...I caution people in states that offer little protection to the utility users ..to not trust any new technology meter and have an hour meter installed on the ir heating and domestic hot water appliances, specifically the burner circuit . When these are activated the hour meter will record the length of time that the gas burner/s are engaged for , a simple multiplication of time to FIXED FIRING RATE the APPLIANCE BUT RATING ...[ all residential systems are fixed firing BUT rated ...only industrial commercial system have variable firing rates ] yields the amount of cubic feet used by those appliances ... residential cooking appliances use not more that 50 thousand BUT per hour that is if all the top burner and oven are on all at once ...they do not on their own contribute to high bills . HEATING AND DOMESTIC HOT WATER ARE ...the main users ..15 to 30 % of a gas bill is domestic hot water depending on usage 1 to 4 % is cooking ...again depending on usage ...the rest is heating . Armed monthly with a calculation of BTU used you can then compare it to a meter reading ...from a base reading at the start of the cycle . A THERM ...is a unit of Natural GAS ..equal to 100 thousand BUT more precisely 99976.1 therefore ...at averages of 1000 BTU to 1038 BTU per cubit foot depending on how the utility company claims to deliver to you ...the calculation is simple HOURS LAPSED X APPLIANCE BUT RATING = EQUALS BTU USED DIVED BY 1000 OR 1038 EQUAL CUBIC FEET ...A METER HAS 5 DIGITS ... RIGHT TO LEFT ..1000 CCF 10.000 CCF 100.000 CCF 1.000.000 CCF ...some may find this difficult but it is really not that difficult ...it is simple math and will give you an edge as a consumer ...good luck to all of you who live in states which do not protect you adequately and allow GAS UITILITIES TO PULL CRAP like this video shows ...abysmally dishonest.
That’s an extremely complicated way of saying, “have your own volumetric meter fitted downstream of the utility’s meter, and take regular readings.”
@@alexc4300
WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR TITANIC IS OKAY BY ME !!! BUT MOST PEOPLE NEED TO START AT THE GROUND FLOOR TO FULLY GET THE CONCEPT OF THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT EXIST BETWEEN CUBIC FEET TO BTU , THEMS ETC ....AND HOW THEY ARE BILLED . KEEP YOUR BINOCULARS FOG FREE .... DON`T HIT ANY ICEBERGS ...
Auto shut off means if they dont like you, your shut off.
Have a licensed electrician wire in a second meter between the company's meter and the rest of the house and make sure the second meter is one of the good old certified analog meters. So you can collect evidence of your true power consumption.
That Spire guy talks without saying anything
Options, like pay your bill, or have it shut off. Crooked utility company
Here in the bay area California we are FUCK , PG&E Company is a gobernador friend , now we are paying a 300% increase in the electricity
lawsuit is the only way to deal with the issue
Oh yeah we got a notice from PG&E saying they want to change out our gas meter.
I ignored it
typical big business GO ALL ELECTRIC!!!!
@2:44 I'm George, George Mcfly, I'm your density..
You’re sticking it to your customers because they have no choice.
Sounds like someone got their decimal point in the wrong place.
Friend of mine had it installed in central wi. Bought all new energy efficient appliances. Got his new bill down to about $100. That lasted 2 months, they changed it back to the old style(without telling him) and bill went back up. He called, they denied changing it back. Even with photo proof.
Power, gas and water companies have doing this for YEARS, offsetting losses to other near by customers.
600,000 meters with 0 defects. Wow that meter company is in the wrong business.
Just like California with PG&E no accountability 😢
A fine example as to why I 'opted out' on ALL of my utility meters. Water, gas, electric.... every one of them wanted to install 'smart meters'.... I opted out and 'self report' my readings.
If you think the meter is reading wrong you can hire a flow meter calibration company to validate the meter readings. All they would do is place the calibration meter in line with the utility own and conpare reading.
What a BS answer. “To my knowledge, there’s no issue”.
It’s just a money grab. The new meter only benefits them.
Back billing because of a screw up on the company side should be illegal.
This is why I never allowed pge to put a smart meter on my gas or electric. I kept those gates locked and mean dogs hungry.
They weren't defective meters! This was done on purpose to steal money!"
Spire: your meter was faulty and we’ve swapped it out.
Also Spire: our new meters are accurate. Trust us.
Here in New York State the electric smart meters are being installed and we're hearing that some folks are pointing out new bills that are out of their normal history. I wish you all good luckin getting them to fix the meters and waive the overages.
I’m glad I buy by the bottle now because my town is too far away from the supply line.
I live in Washington State where PSE handles all the gas delivery. I had an old friend who was pretty high up in the utility and she told me once that they get together sometimes behind closed doors and pay for massive lunches including lobster and gourmet chefs. They actually have rate increase meetings and laugh about how easy it is to rip customers off. She said they once discussed how they could help people by lowering the bills and that person was almost fired for even thinking that way.
I worked for a utility company for over 20 years. The old bellows meters NEVER failed by reading too high. They slow down, not speed up. However, they don't fail drastically. The new meters are probably faulty, and should be forced to be measured by the state's weights and measurement department. If even 2% of the new meters are faulty, ALL of the customers charged for past unproven 'usage' should be refunded with interest. This sounds very fishy to me.
Heck, you could hire an electrician and go all electric for what your paying those gas bills for. I say fire the gas companies. Go all electric.
State inspection and calibration is needed. Gas stations are regularly tested by the state and certified for accuracy (look for the stickers on the pumps). Time for water electricity and gas inspection and fined for non compliance.
I worked for the southern California gas company for 34 years and we always sent out a meter reader to double check an increase in usage and if the read was correct a service tech would go out to check for problems.
We also had to change the meters every so often to ensure a correct meter was installed by puc regulations. Apparently, your gas company is inept
this is the same thing that has happened to our electric meters and our water meters here in TX... all our bills went up and all they do is claim the old meters were reading wrong
We got bill showing no thing due. We called gas company to find out and was told we had a credit on our account. Current bill still shows credit and nothing due.
I hope they do not suddenly decide we owe a bunch of money!
samething happened to 720 Shennendoah in 2019....you are right about this bullshiite company. We had a sober house of responsible men and we took the hit because of a prudent reserve but what about the families who cannot afford.
Spire can suck an egg
They have to pay for their usage. The old meters were tested for accuracy and the under usage was calculated based on those numbers.
Something fishy going on. Independent meter testing needed. Do a Give-Send-Go fundraiser to test both meters. I’ll donate to the cause.
I’ve had the same old gas meter on my house in Michigan for decades and they ain’t got my gas usage wrong yet.
One thing for sure is, the meter is defective. But the Spire need to enhance their yearly income so they need a meter that magically manipulate their gas price. With the new meter it can be done remotely no need for the customers permission, just bill them no matter what.
Missouri needs to change that law regarding back billing. To NO back billing can be done unless provider can prove customer manipulated service meter to malfunction.
So if you overpaid, will you get a credit?
Sounds criminal to me. The AG should launch a detailed investigation into the utility AND the manufacturer for criminal theft.