I appreciate the amount of effort you put into these tests, good stuff! My experience has been that ammo lube, barrel seasoning, barrel break-in, and even gun->ammo preference are largely myths.
Thanks. I agree with you. And I'm not knocking precision shooters. They've won competitions and their well-earned experiences are valid; whatever works for them obviously works.
when it comes to 22lr ammo that has been complete opposite to my experience! testing 12 different ammos with 4x 5 round group at 100 meters it became apparent very quickly the first groups after switching ammo with different bullet lube had more outliers and worst groups. It was very apparent when switching from copper to lubricated lead and vice versa.
I might agree with part of your synopsis, however, there can be no doubt that some rifles do display a marked preference for a particular ammo over another! I've observed this in both center fire and rim fire over 50 years of shooting factory and hand loaded ammunition.
@@rt66rc86 I'm sure there are some situations where one type of ammo works better in one rifle than another. I think that it is not as big of a issue as people make it out to be.
@@TheOldFatDadGoober Actually, it can be the difference between a rifle being just "mediocre" and being "GREAT"! Which is why many of us got into re-loading, having the ability to tune a given load to a particular rifle also makes a HUGE difference, if you know what you're doing and how to get where you want to go... I have a Ruger American in 7mm08, that I bought on a whim. I don't hand load for it yet, but in shooting factory ammo through it to see which one it prefers, Federal Fusion in 140 grain will put 3 shots into .5 moa @ 100 yards on any day that I'm not screwing things up! Other ammo brands would do 1.25 to 1.75. Some rifles don't give a hoot what you shoot through it, it will shoot well regardless! However, for 50 years, the observable rule has been that some factory cartridges will absolutely shoot better in some rifles than others! You can prove this by using your best rifle and running the tests yourself!
Very good, hard, detailed work. For my purposes, Federal Auto Match is more than sufficient. My rifles will henceforth be fed a steady diet of that ammo. Have you done, or do you know of a similar test done with .22wmr ammo?
My 5.5" bbl .22lr pistol hits more clays on the 200 yard berm with Aguila 1100fps LRN than any other ammo except Federal Target Automatch - about equal, but my 10-22 hates the Federal.
I enjoy seeing your results. My summary comment would be that there are so many variables that will affect the results including this one, the takedown's accuracy limitations itself with a receiver mounted scope. I think you're doing really well given that. That said, I have stocked up on Federal auto match and, bottom line, it will do what I need it to do. I'm getting 2" consistently at 70 yards in my TD Ruger and I can make that work.
Wow! Great video! Obviously CCI is the better ammo but I am really surprised how well the bulk federal performed, for anything other than matches I'd say it's the winner, unless you have a lot of money of course! Very impressive! Thumbs up!
I concur with your test results, especially given that you used 10-22. It is intriguing, beguiling even, when you're shooting some great groups and then suddenly for no apparent reason it just takes a dump on you.
Moondog, not only do I want to thank you for your through tests as best you could however I especially thank you on your closing music. I think it is the first one I have not had a guitar screaming in my head phones.👍👍👍👍✌🏻🇺🇸
Certainly interesting information Moondog. I enjoyed the video, and the time and effort that you put into it. Thank you! (Liked & Subbed) All of my 22`s seem to like most of the 1200fps (pure lead - wax coated) ammo. The CCI and Federal seem to be the most accurate in all my 22`s. I did try the Federal 22 "Hunter" (in the dark red box) in my ruger 1022, it failed to cycle most of the shots. But that same ammo is spot on in my Ruger American 22 Bolt action. The Federal "AutoMatch" ammo was hit an miss for me. Any Winchester ammo i`ve tried in the last couple years was just horrible. Its Federal or CCI for me. It just works.
Same here on most all that. At almost half the price for the fed auto match, I shoot it most as it runs pretty good in the bolts, autos and pistols we take. I keep the cci for more varmint stuff as its mostly hollow point. Velocitor in my boot gun.
Another great video, thanks. I've conducted extensive ammo testing from my 10/22. All I've really concluded is that oddly, my 10/22 doesn't shoot Mini-mag 40 grain round nose as well as most other types of ammo. Other than that, most bulk ammos give me around 2+ moa off the bench at 50 yards. I'm an off-hand 50 yards shooter, so just about anything will do.
@@Moondog2A I get the best bench rest groups at 50 yards with CCI Mini-mag 36 grain hp and Aguila 40 grain rn. The Aguila 38 grain hp and Federal Auto Match are almost as good. I get abysmal groups with CCI Mini-mag 40 grain round nose. I'm a 50 yard off-hand shooter, and the bench results don't always reflect my scores standing, unsupported.
Thx another outstanding review. Accurate ammo has a Std Deviation around 16 FPS. The FPS printed on the box is lab tested speed. If you do not use a chronographs you are wasting your time & money playing the ammo accuracy game by not knowing the bullet weight, rim and SD. Learn the basic bullet ballistics to pick your ammo. CCI ammo has flat SD number. I really enjoy your channel.
When it comes to ammo I believe there’s some misconceptions out there. I’ve found personally going from a copper washed bullet to lead doesn’t really effect anything. The more drastic changes I’ve found is going from a dirty bulk ammunition (thunderbolts) to a cleaner ammunition without cleaning. Also certain rifles like certain ammunition better. My Marlin Model 20 loves Aguila ammunition over anything else but my Marlin Model 60 loves the CCI target best even though they both have the same length and micro groove rifling
Thanks for the review, I find that heavy barrels give me the tightest groups for bench I use a Savage Mark II TR With scope and a Savage Mark II FVT with peep sights, bough like the CCI standard velocity.
How funny, I just finished posting this procedure of cleaning the barrel after firing each brand/type and firing 10rds to season before firing 6 at the target then removing the flier for a more revealing & consistent 5. 20 rounds for seasoning is great but maybe overkill..? We always found only 10 for seasoning to work for us. Well done!
I have had some decent success by sorting my rounds by weight and firing all shots of the same weight. I find there are usually 3 weights that are most common in a bulk box or brick and I find the heaviest of the 3 work pretty well.
Good video. If you throw out the last grouping in each test (when the heat built up), the MOA would have been identical, and maybe a slight edge to the federal. In a hunting scenario the only difference would be the price.
My cz452 ultralux will consistently put 5 bullets in one hole at 50 yards. The 5 shot group hole is equivalent to the size of what one .308 bullet would make. CCi standards group over an inch at 50 yards…closer to 1.5” out of the same rifle. I bought some of those 325 boxes of auto matches today as they were available at Walmart. So hopefully they shoot halfway decent in my CZ in my Anschultz.
Guarantee they won’t. My 452 prefers standard velocity only the more expensive the better SK and wolf standard are not that bad price wise and preform very well
@@charlesdavaro8554I tried the automatch in my anschutz woodchucker last summer after my reply. I shot 5, 5 shot groups in a row at 100 yards with it. I had groups ranging from 1" to 1 1/4". I have a junky 3-9 tasco world class mil dot scope with crosshairs the size of barn boards. I'm sure with a better optic it would shoot tighter.. Didn't try them out of my cz yet. Really don't care how they group since I like using HPs only for small game and varmint hunting. Just some good' cheap, junky, ammo for practice imo. They do cycle perfectly in my beretta bobcat as well.
581s, CCI SV shoots much tighter groups. If you weigh the Auto Match and shoot just what you get in the "middle" those groups a little tighter but to get good groups ya gotta weigh. Last time out the "Norma" 40gn RN seemed to group pretty tight. It all depends on what your rifle will shoot the best, then stock up on that ammo.
CCI Standard velocity,, I weigh each round and shoot the ones close in weight. Out of my Marlin XT I'm talking 75 yard bottle caps,, or 150 yard 2 inch groups. Next best is Fiocchi standard velocity. Both are subsonic.
Agreed. I can't even find Fiocchi 22LR anywhere near me. At this point, shoot what you can buy without selling a kidney with prices the way they are. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.
Second thought to add. Weighing F A M ammo. the ones that weight "Light", hit Low and to the Right, the Heavy ones hit High and to the Left. The ones that weigh exactly the same, the group is...... 5 shots all holes touching.
Stovepipe = when a spent case fails to fully eject and gets caught by bolt and sticks out of the receiver like a old fashioned stovepipe. Usually caused by under powered cartridge or friction in the gun action or both.
Both of my S&Ws pistol and rifle are extremely prejudiced against anything not cci but occasionally Aguila will run flawlessly and Remington golden bullets
Remington Golden bullits ( and Thunderbolt) is stuff that never will come close to any of my equipment. I don’t even want it for free. Terrible.Some of my bolt action rifles don’t close properly!
@@woutergijs5246 Damn sorry to hear about your bolt action rifle. It’s funny to read stuff that isn’t necessarily true today like my S$W will fire anything I load them with now. I have quite a few thousands of.22 I’m actually kinda proud of all the different ammo I’ve managed to find and buy,? I have only shot one box of 500 T-bolts and they all went off but I had to clean a little more than normal
It's not Apples to Apples terms of velocity, CCI Mini-Mags would be closer. But CCI Mini-Mags are copper plated. CCI Standard was used because I wanted to compare two LRN ammo in a similar price range. Thanks for pointing that out and I hope you subscribe.
*You didn't mention that the Federal did get the tightest group of all 14 targets, #4 appeared to be about .15 smaller than the best the CCi produced.*
I prefer cci over the federal but at least with federal you can find and the bulk .ost of the time and federal is cheaper but if I had the money all my ammo would be cci
All of that is very interesting, however I am a hunter so I usually only get one shot at my target. I need to know that I can hit the head of a squirrel at 25 yards of a rabbit at 50 yards. It looks like either brand would get the job done. All that being said I really appreciate the work you did and plan to recreate it with my 10/22.0
I'm replying to the 17-minute mark..... Very interesting to note about the sweet spot due to the barrel being heated up (but not heated up TOO much)! Pardon me, but I would like to critique what you say about the sweet spot being "16 to 20 shots in", and that is, it's 16-20 shots in *at the pace which you're firing*. Because you're taking considerable time to adjust the aim between shots, the barrel has more time to cool between rounds. If you were firing them off in rapid succession, then you would reach the sweet spot of the barrel temperature sooner, say, maybe 8-12 rounds in. So that is something to consider! In fact, it would be interesting to take this test a bit further and measure your barrel temperature with an infrared thermometer while you're testing, then you could see what temperature the sweet spot actually is! What I've learned from this video is that if I'm specifically trying to get an accurate grouping, then I should fire off several rounds for the sake of preheating the barrel to the sweet spot temperature!
I tested it with an IR thermometer once and was a bit disappointed. There isn't much if any temperature difference between 3-5 shots and 16-20 shots. It may be different if you're doing full-auto speed mag dump but normal target shooting tempo, the temp pretty much stayed stayed the same. In fact you have to leave the bolt open and let cool down for more than minute before the temp drops. But I never filmed it. I may just take you up on your suggested an do a video of it. Side note: A center fire ELR shooter (over 600yrds) I know tells me that he and other serious competitors all use chiller fans when competing so that their barrels are all cold for every shot.
I love cci ammo for my handguns but availability is an issue and cost as well is just too much for plinking. I have 13,000 rounds of federal match and it shoots very well through all of my guns and provides adequate accuracy and reliability for the price.
OK I have a question, if I zero my rifle with a 40 grain bullet and I have several different brands at 40 grains will my rifle still be zero as long as shoot 40 grain
Depends on what distance. At 25yrds it won't make much difference but at 50yrds or 100yrds, your zero will change between brands. Generally, I'm finding at 50yrds each brand has its own zero.
It is not solely a function of bullet grain weight. Muzzle velocity and energy, as well as bullet type (lead round nose, copper plated, etc.) affect zero.
I have a single shot remington and I bought without having any idea that these ammunition are for semi-automatic rifles. I still don't have a used one. Do you think they can do the job on my rifle?
@@Moondog2A 50-75 yards, with some shots at 100 yards. Most of my squirrel shots are 50-75 at elevation up into the trees. But I have shot out 100 yards with paper and steel
Thanks for the response but this review isn't really about how to get the tightest groups with 22LR. It's just showing how these ammo group in the most popular 22LR semi-auto rifle sold in the US (the Ruger 10/22). That said, between these two ammo my CZ 457 groups this much better and prefers the Federal but there are much better ammo to use in a CZ 457 than either of these.
I wouldn’t even consider comparing the two Cci standard velocity usually sets the standard-for 22 lr consistent rim thickness and load / report is usually the same every shot Lately they have been slipping i am still using old stock i have stashed Auto match is Walmart ammo you will be lucky to find 20 out a pack of 325 with the same rim thickness. I am a old rimfire nut and learned from another old fart that all rimfire is not created equal , try SK standards or wolf same ammo you won’t go back to cci or federal but its all about budget
I didn’t realize you where using a takedown A barrel that comes off a gun like the takedown should not be used to test ammo , its my opinion but there is too much slop in a takedown especially a stock 1022
@@charlesdavaro8554 There is not such thing as a universal ammo accuracy test. I test the ammo in the gun I plan to shoot with. I own a 10/22 takedown and this is an ammo test for that rifle. Right?
charlesdavaro8554, I will leave my comment even thought you won't see it. I appreciate your comment because although most aren't aware, Auto Match rim thicknesses, shell weights, bullet diameters, shell lengths are all over the place, it is OK for informal plinking. The actual best improvement in accuracy is achieved by getting rid of politicians that restrict the sale of ammunition which forces the price up for what is available.
Seasoning factory barrels isn’t as important as seasoning match grade aftermarket barrels like Voodoo or Volquartsen, not to mention 50 yards is pretty close to truly judge accuracy. Stretch your test to 150-200 yards to see where higher end ammo (and barrels) really shine.
Rubbish on every point. All barrels should have a few fouling rounds for consistency before accuracy testing. Barrel 'grade' completely immaterial to this rule of thumb. 50 yards is perfect for 22lr accuracy testing, from bulk to match ammo, differences are readily apparent at that range and can be extrapolated out with less wind polluting the results. Suggesting 150-200 yards is clearly from inexperience, and frankly absurd. Even the barest breeze nullifies the results. Even if zeroed at 100yds this CCI standard velocity suffers nearly 12inches of drop at 150yd and 32+inches at 200yd.
You obviously are unaware of long range precision .22 shooting. Of course there is a drop, there is a drop at 100 yards. That’s part of it. When, or if, you ever buy a high end .22 you will understand.
@@jeffstephenson4156 Irrelevant. There's long range shooting for virtually everything which is immaterial. 22lr past 100yards is ballistically a rainbow. Impractical and silly for grouped accuracy testing. Anyone with a modicum of 22lr experience would know this. The starkly obvious point that .22lr is significantly affected by wind, especially at the 1050 fps here, let alone past 100yards. Any strict accuracy grouping testing should aim to neutralize the influence of wind on the result, not introduce it.
Great video + info. Thank you. I am in California, + am stocking up b4 the 11%, additional, tax/fee, on arms + anmo, starting July 1st. I am down to the line, so pickins are VERY slim, plus, I'm frugal, lol, (ie cheap + broke) 😅🥺 But, I have heard good things about Auto-Match. I bought a few boxes, but will definitely get a few more. I haven't tried them or done any finding of the ,"best", yet though, as having only ranges available, + not that many, the cost + other factors that the great state of California has, ....has/does effect my abilities. 😥🥺👎 Seeing + hearing the additional input from your buddy got me wondering how lead vs copper plated/washed would compare to each other in regards to the heating-up equation. ........All other things being equal, ie. Brand, grain, nose type, ect. Good stuff. 👍 Thank you again.
I've been taking advantage of Big-5s one-day flash sales and I'll probably make one last hike out to Sportsmans Warehouse to stock up on whatever they have on sale before July.
What distance were these tests shot? If 25 yards, my High Standard Victor shoots better than the mediocre Ruger 1022. For true testing, use a CZ 45x bolt-action rifle or a CMMG dedicated .22 LR AR upper receiver. All these will outshoot any 1022 almost every time with any ammo.
50yrds. Every gun is going to shoot different. My intent with the video is to show what these ammo's do in my 10/22. I've got ammo reviews for these ammo in a CZ 457 and I'm working on videos using a Ruger PR. Be sure to subscribe.
CCI AR does group better in my 10/22 than Mini-Mags but I haven't tested it vs. CCI Standard. I still remember 3 years PSA was offer CCI AR on clearance for $14/case. Sadly we'll never see those days again. Hope you subscribed.
No offense but your test demonstrates it is not the ammunition as much as it is the rifle IMHO. I think you can get to MOA accuracy. Here are a couple of suggestions. The standard takedown 10/22 is designed for hunting and general field use, not precision shooting. I believe your rifle has a "sporter" chamber so there is quite a jump before the bullet reaches the lands. The bolt may also be off in terms of head space (SAAMI is 0.0425 inch) but typically the 10/22s have larger head space unless you get a custom shop rifle. There are shops that will fix the bolt head space but you can't set back the barrel (shorten the chamber) on a takedown model. You can "accurize" by upgrading to a "target" bull barrel (0.92 inch) that has the Bentz chamber and one of many third party bolts (e.g., KIDD, Tandemkross) that provide better tolerance. Perhaps the best way to get better accuracy is with a better trigger like the Ruger BX trigger. If you can't do this, then polish the inside of the receiver with a scotch pad to remove paint residue. This lets the bolt slide more freely (less friction). Keep from using lubricant in the receiver unless you use a dry lube. One other trick is to set the takedown screw that holds the barreled action to the stock to about 14 inch pounds minimum and adjust tighter from there. One guy on YT achieves amazing accuracy by putting a piece of tape under the barrel to lessen harmonic vibration.
No offense taken. This was a test of this ammo in my off the shelf 10/22 TD rifle, nothing more since every rifle is different. Certainly an upgraded barrel and trigger would improve groups. But again, not the intent. Tha KS for tips by the way, hadn't heard of the tape barrel hack, I'll have to look that up.
@@Moondog2A YTber STKO uses tape under his barrel band and gets great accuracy because of the change in barrel harmonics. Without spending more money, you can scotch pad the inside of the receiver. Also watch some of the YT vids regarding adjusting the takedown screw torque setting - factory is 18-20 inch pounds, but some are getting great accuracy at anywhere between 14 and 30 inch pounds. But you'll need to test different torque settings. There are a couple of gunsmiths, e.g., Connecticut Precision Chambering, L.L.C., that will fix the bolt for you for about $50. Otherwise you would need to buy a precision bolt - Kidd or Tandemkross. The greatest gain will be in your trigger. Check out Brimstone Gunsmithing for that. LOL you could have bought a custom gun but customizing your stock 10/22 is much more fun.
Sort your rounds by weight and try again. Shoot only the same weight rounds (of all ammo if possible) otherwise your accuracy may be all over the place. I have found CCI to have the most discrepancy in terms of weight. Remington Thunderbolt usually shows much less variation in weight compared to the CCI in my experience so far.
That's kind of the point. I'm trying to remove my shooting ability (or lack of it) from the testing variables. This video is an ammo test, not a showing-off-how-well-I-shoot test.
You are not testing the accuracy of CCI standard velocity against Federal Automatch ammunition. You are not even testing them in how they perform in a Ruger 10/22. You are testing how these ammunitions perform in your particular rifle with you shooting them. If you want to test the performance of these two ammunitions, you will need to use a serious target rifle. I'll give you the results you would get using a serious target rifle. CCI is a little more accurate at 50 yards - typically 5 shot groups of about 0.6 inches Automatch is pretty close - typically 5 shot groups of about 0.75 inches. Your 2 inch groups reflect the rifle and your shooting technique. Note that your groups are not repeatable. One group is to the right. Another to the left. Then high or low. If you really want to see how you rifle/ammunition performed, put your targets against a window. Register each target on a page of tracing paper so that all 35 shots are shown/registration/superimposed on the tracing paper. That will show you how each ammunition performs in your gun. I predict that there will be no contest in your gun. CCI will clearly win and the Automatch will look more like a shotgun pattern in your rifle. Its easy to see if an ammunition is accurate. You don't need the measure the groups. Are the individual bullet hole touching each other? When shooting with a serious target rifle: The Typical group for Automatch is that 3 holes will touch other; 1 will just miss; 1 flier will open the group to 0.75 inches. The typical group for the CCI is the 4 holes will touch; 1 flier will open the group to 0.6 inches.
Couldn't have more similar results myself. The only thing that shoots better for me is CCI suppressor ammo, which I thought strange, because of the large hollow, but I guess it might be due to the extra 5 grains of weight.
You lost me at using the takedown rifle. If its not tested on a longer bolt, it should at least be tested on a fixed barrel. .22s like longer barrels. the extra 2 inches on a standard 10 22 will make a big difference.
Think of it this way, your groups are going to be different/better if you're using a normal 10/22 or a bolt gun. But it's the relative differences between the brands that I'm testing.
My 2015 hoard of Fed automatch is horrible. 1.5- 1.7" out of 3 different rifles at 25yds! The 3 rifles cloverleaf CCI standard it 25yds. I just want to keep squirrel out of my fruit trees. I have 6 or 8k of these junk automatch to deal with.
@@Moondog2A I've shot a few hundred Fed AM from an H&R 922. It was a tough game of battle ship. I need to test it against the CCI. All the CCI I have is in neat little christmas boxes. I ordered more yesterday.
Why on Earth are you doing testing using the least accurate version of the Ruger 10/22, which is already a horrid platform? It's like testing race car fuels in a Kia Rio!
@@Moondog2A Sorry I can't see a valid thought process on the first response. Should everyone accept the results of the test of a "common" though inferior product? The average factory 10/22 requires about $1000 in upgrades to turn it into a $300 rifle. The next time you pull the barrel off that "takedown" use a mic to measure the depth of that chamber. The 10/22 usually has a chamber .125" deeper than needed, meaning the bullet is all the way out of the case before it engages the rifling. All that said I do own a 10/22 receiver but it has a completely reworked trigger, squared up bolt face, rebuilt and glass bedded stock and I put a heavy fluted Douglas barrel on it 20 years ago. It shoots SK Pistol Match (I have a pre-2012 horde) into 1/4"@25 yards but shoots your CCI Standard into just a little larger hole and the cost effectiveness of the cheaper CCI is justifiable for the minute accuracy loss. As for the Federal Automatch, I do not consider it at all! I tried one bulk pack during the Obama ammo shortage due to that being all that was available locally for more than a year. I still have most of it for use in one rifle that seems to like it well enough. I never bought another pack and never will, unless that is all that is available through another presidential administration..
@@leonstancliff7218If my TD is the least accurate 10/22 available then you can be assured that this ammo will shoot better in your 10/22. I'm glad you put in the work and money to acurize your 10/22.
Glenn, there was a lot of useful information contained within this video. Take a nap and re-watch, maybe you'll get more out of it after you've refreshed a bit! ;)
It was to address criticism from an older video that I needed to "season" the barrel. This test attempted to determine if that was necessary. It wasn't for my 10/22. I've since streamlined my testing videos to only 20rnds.
Back in October 2020 in California, yes. I was allowed on an law enforcement range but the Department had to follow County Health Dept. Guidelines on County Property. But that was in 2020 but California politics are still idiotic. Be sure to SUBscribe for more crazy California gun culture.
@@Dieseldoggy502 Haha. Well you should see my other ammo video comparing ammo between my Ruger 10/22 and my Marlin 60. Both are pretty close to each other at 50yrds. So maybe it's the me that's bad?
I’ve probably been shooting longer than you’ve been alive. But hey, you are right. I’ve never shot a high dollar .22 rifle over 50 yards and all .22 rifles are the same, no matter the quality. SMH
If your statement were true, high quality after-market target barrels would not out shoot factory barrels as well as and as often as they do Jeff! I'll concede that your point does hold some validity, as the majority of barrels will perform beyond the abilities of the shooter and I include myself in that statement. I don't own any Anshutz .22lr rifles, but consider the reputation that they hold in comparison to many other fine .22lr rifles! I own a couple of CZ .22lr rifles that come very close to an Anshutz in accuracy, however, they just will not do what those will! So, there is my evidence... :)
@@rt66rc86 I guess you missed my sarcasm. I know for a fact that high quality after market barrels will always outshoot factory barrels past 50 yards. Did you miss my “SMH” at the end of my comment?
Sorry dude, not trying to be mean, but this has to be one of the most flawed methods of "accuracy" testing I have ever seen. Not fair to the ammo or the rifle.
@@Moondog2A Sure man. Again , I'm not trying to be mean or criticize, and I do appreciate your efforts and what you are attempting to do. First of all, if you're going to use a "machine" type rest to secure the gun during firing, it has to be rock solid and stable. Consistency is the key in accuracy testing, whether the test is for the rifle or the ammo or both. The gun has to recoil exactly the same, or as close as possible with each shot. I think you would have gotten better results shooting off of good bags, or a good rear bag and benchrest, or even a good bipod, and getting down on the gun using good shooting form and trigger control. Ditch the plastic table and the plastic rest. Do your test either mechanically or human, can't have it both ways. If you watch the firing sequences at .5 or .25 speed you can see the inconsistent recoil. Also can see inconsistencies in crosshairs on target before shot breaks. Notice how some shots are left, right, high, low. Solid platform, solid consistent rest, practiced trigger control, and good shooting form should produce much better results. If you're goal is to test the ammo itself, use a more suitable rifle, not a lightweight, sporter barreled, take-down version. I am a big fan of the 10/22, and currently own 3. One is a Kidd barreled, Kidd trigger, Magpul stocked semi custom that will shoot .3, .4 groups all day long with CCI SV, at 50 yds. Of course, even match ammo can have an occasional flier. Your process of starting clean and cold, and firing fouling/seasoning shots is correct. Although 20 rounds may be a few more than needed. On the right track there. I'm sure someone may disagree, and you know what they say about opinions. My opinions are based on over 50 years of shooting, 30+ years of handloading and load testing for various rifles in several calibers, rifle and pistol. My .02 cents worth. Best regards and good luck in your future testing and videos.
@@kevinbain7153 I agree with most of your comments. But you know that no ammo shoots equally well in all guns. I wanted to see which among these 3 ammo shoots best in my Ruger 10/22 TD, never claiming that these results were applicable to all rifles or even all Ruger 10/22s. Take this test as a "worst case" scenario as far as "normal" shooting.
@@Moondog2A Absolutely 100% agree that no ammo shoots equally well in all guns. That's why we test ammo until we find a "keeper" for the gun in question. Also why we handload to find what the gun likes. With factory ammo, even match ammo, you will experience variations from lot to lot. The first line of your introduction states "How accurate is CCI Standard and Federal Auto Match 22LR ammo in a factory Ruger 10/22?". My point is this is not a fair test, due to the testing method, for the rifle or the ammo, for the reasons I stated. The resulting groups were horrible at best, and I would bet my bottom dollar that rifle will shoot better than the test results, with either ammo. If you are satisfied with your results then so be it. I'm only saying, IMO, you won't find the right ammo for your rifle, or any other using that method and equipment. Best of luck all the same.
I appreciate the amount of effort you put into these tests, good stuff! My experience has been that ammo lube, barrel seasoning, barrel break-in, and even gun->ammo preference are largely myths.
Thanks. I agree with you. And I'm not knocking precision shooters. They've won competitions and their well-earned experiences are valid; whatever works for them obviously works.
when it comes to 22lr ammo that has been complete opposite to my experience! testing 12 different ammos with 4x 5 round group at 100 meters it became apparent very quickly the first groups after switching ammo with different bullet lube had more outliers and worst groups. It was very apparent when switching from copper to lubricated lead and vice versa.
I might agree with part of your synopsis, however, there can be no doubt that some rifles do display a marked preference for a particular ammo over another! I've observed this in both center fire and rim fire over 50 years of shooting factory and hand loaded ammunition.
@@rt66rc86 I'm sure there are some situations where one type of ammo works better in one rifle than another. I think that it is not as big of a issue as people make it out to be.
@@TheOldFatDadGoober Actually, it can be the difference between a rifle being just "mediocre" and being "GREAT"! Which is why many of us got into re-loading, having the ability to tune a given load to a particular rifle also makes a HUGE difference, if you know what you're doing and how to get where you want to go...
I have a Ruger American in 7mm08, that I bought on a whim. I don't hand load for it yet, but in shooting factory ammo through it to see which one it prefers, Federal Fusion in 140 grain will put 3 shots into .5 moa @ 100 yards on any day that I'm not screwing things up! Other ammo brands would do 1.25 to 1.75.
Some rifles don't give a hoot what you shoot through it, it will shoot well regardless! However, for 50 years, the observable rule has been that some factory cartridges will absolutely shoot better in some rifles than others! You can prove this by using your best rifle and running the tests yourself!
Very good, hard, detailed work. For my purposes, Federal Auto Match is more than sufficient. My rifles will henceforth be fed a steady diet of that ammo.
Have you done, or do you know of a similar test done with .22wmr ammo?
Ive always loved CCI Standard Velocity. Aguila isnt too bad either.
My 5.5" bbl .22lr pistol hits more clays on the 200 yard berm with Aguila 1100fps LRN than any other ammo except Federal Target Automatch - about equal, but my 10-22 hates the Federal.
I enjoy seeing your results. My summary comment would be that there are so many variables that will affect the results including this one, the takedown's accuracy limitations itself with a receiver mounted scope. I think you're doing really well given that. That said, I have stocked up on Federal auto match and, bottom line, it will do what I need it to do. I'm getting 2" consistently at 70 yards in my TD Ruger and I can make that work.
If I could get a good price, I'd stock up too.
Wow! Great video! Obviously CCI is the better ammo but I am really surprised how well the bulk federal performed, for anything other than matches I'd say it's the winner, unless you have a lot of money of course! Very impressive! Thumbs up!
I concur with your test results, especially given that you used 10-22.
It is intriguing, beguiling even, when you're shooting some great groups and then suddenly for no apparent reason it just takes a dump on you.
I'm still hoping to find that unicorn ammo for my 10-22
Thank you for this valuable ammo comparison. Your work is much appreciated.
Thanks for watching! Don't forget to subscribe to my channel.
Moondog, not only do I want to thank you for your through tests as best you could however I especially thank you on your closing music. I think it is the first one I have not had a guitar screaming in my head phones.👍👍👍👍✌🏻🇺🇸
Thank you. You're one of few folks who actually say they like my music choices. Hope you subscribe.
Yes I subscribed
Certainly interesting information Moondog. I enjoyed the video, and the time and effort that you put into it. Thank you! (Liked & Subbed)
All of my 22`s seem to like most of the 1200fps (pure lead - wax coated) ammo. The CCI and Federal seem to be the most accurate in all my 22`s.
I did try the Federal 22 "Hunter" (in the dark red box) in my ruger 1022, it failed to cycle most of the shots. But that same ammo is spot on in my Ruger American 22 Bolt action.
The Federal "AutoMatch" ammo was hit an miss for me. Any Winchester ammo i`ve tried in the last couple years was just horrible. Its Federal or CCI for me. It just works.
Same here on most all that. At almost half the price for the fed auto match, I shoot it most as it runs pretty good in the bolts, autos and pistols we take. I keep the cci for more varmint stuff as its mostly hollow point. Velocitor in my boot gun.
Consistent velocity is most important in tight groups.
True. Hope you subscribed, I'll be doing additional reviews later this year.
Another great video, thanks. I've conducted extensive ammo testing from my 10/22. All I've really concluded is that oddly, my 10/22 doesn't shoot Mini-mag 40 grain round nose as well as most other types of ammo. Other than that, most bulk ammos give me around 2+ moa off the bench at 50 yards. I'm an off-hand 50 yards shooter, so just about anything will do.
Every gun is different. Which budget ammo brand shoots best in your 10/22?
@@Moondog2A I get the best bench rest groups at 50 yards with CCI Mini-mag 36 grain hp and Aguila 40 grain rn. The Aguila 38 grain hp and Federal Auto Match are almost as good. I get abysmal groups with CCI Mini-mag 40 grain round nose. I'm a 50 yard off-hand shooter, and the bench results don't always reflect my scores standing, unsupported.
I wish CCI would load their Small Game Bullet in the Standard Velocity load.
Thx another outstanding review. Accurate ammo has a Std Deviation around 16 FPS. The FPS printed on the box is lab tested speed. If you do not use a chronographs you are wasting your time & money playing the ammo accuracy game by not knowing the bullet weight, rim and SD. Learn the basic bullet ballistics to pick your ammo. CCI ammo has flat SD number. I really enjoy your channel.
You know what your talking about for sure
When it comes to ammo I believe there’s some misconceptions out there. I’ve found personally going from a copper washed bullet to lead doesn’t really effect anything. The more drastic changes I’ve found is going from a dirty bulk ammunition (thunderbolts) to a cleaner ammunition without cleaning. Also certain rifles like certain ammunition better. My Marlin Model 20 loves Aguila ammunition over anything else but my Marlin Model 60 loves the CCI target best even though they both have the same length and micro groove rifling
Thanks for watching! Don't forget to subscribe to my channel.
Thanks for the review, I find that heavy barrels give me the tightest groups for bench I use a Savage Mark II TR With scope and a Savage Mark II FVT with peep sights, bough like the CCI standard velocity.
Is the Federal shooting better in your Savage?
How funny, I just finished posting this procedure of cleaning the barrel after firing each brand/type and firing 10rds to season before firing 6 at the target then removing the flier for a more revealing & consistent 5. 20 rounds for seasoning is great but maybe overkill..? We always found only 10 for seasoning to work for us.
Well done!
Great video. Thank you for a ton of great info.
Glad it was helpful! Hope you subscribe. I'll be updating this test soon.
I have had some decent success by sorting my rounds by weight and firing all shots of the same weight. I find there are usually 3 weights that are most common in a bulk box or brick and I find the heaviest of the 3 work pretty well.
I'm find the same with about 3 weights that 95% of the rounds fall into and about 1 or 2 random super heavy or super light per box of 100
Good video. If you throw out the last grouping in each test (when the heat built up), the MOA would have been identical, and maybe a slight edge to the federal. In a hunting scenario the only difference would be the price.
My cz452 ultralux will consistently put 5 bullets in one hole at 50 yards. The 5 shot group hole is equivalent to the size of what one .308 bullet would make. CCi standards group over an inch at 50 yards…closer to 1.5” out of the same rifle. I bought some of those 325 boxes of auto matches today as they were available at Walmart. So hopefully they shoot halfway decent in my CZ in my Anschultz.
Guarantee they won’t. My 452 prefers standard velocity only the more expensive the better SK and wolf standard are not that bad price wise and preform very well
@@charlesdavaro8554I tried the automatch in my anschutz woodchucker last summer after my reply. I shot 5, 5 shot groups in a row at 100 yards with it. I had groups ranging from 1" to 1 1/4". I have a junky 3-9 tasco world class mil dot scope with crosshairs the size of barn boards. I'm sure with a better optic it would shoot tighter.. Didn't try them out of my cz yet. Really don't care how they group since I like using HPs only for small game and varmint hunting. Just some good' cheap, junky, ammo for practice imo. They do cycle perfectly in my beretta bobcat as well.
Great content! Thank you.
Of course cci standard is a bit better grouping bullet because it is a subsonic one.
Finally someone who knows the difference. You can not compare the two
You just proved your rifle likes CCI over the Auto Match
You're doing it right for accuracy testing .......
Thanks. Hope you subscribe.
CCI is premium quality 22lr ammo doesn’t get any better that CCI constant & reliable ammo
Certainly for the price
581s, CCI SV shoots much tighter groups. If you weigh the Auto Match and shoot just what you get in the "middle" those groups a little tighter but to get good groups ya gotta weigh. Last time out the "Norma" 40gn RN seemed to group pretty tight.
It all depends on what your rifle will shoot the best, then stock up on that ammo.
True words. Hope you subscribe.
CCI Standard velocity,, I weigh each round and shoot the ones close in weight. Out of my Marlin XT I'm talking 75 yard bottle caps,, or 150 yard 2 inch groups. Next best is Fiocchi standard velocity. Both are subsonic.
Agreed. I can't even find Fiocchi 22LR anywhere near me. At this point, shoot what you can buy without selling a kidney with prices the way they are. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.
My Marlin model 60s loves cci
Second thought to add. Weighing F A M ammo. the ones that weight "Light", hit Low and to the Right, the Heavy ones hit High and to the Left. The ones that weigh exactly the same, the group is...... 5 shots all holes touching.
I heard similar reports as well. The weight difference is in the powder.
Define the reference to stovepipe
Stovepipe = when a spent case fails to fully eject and gets caught by bolt and sticks out of the receiver like a old fashioned stovepipe. Usually caused by under powered cartridge or friction in the gun action or both.
Both of my S&Ws pistol and rifle are extremely prejudiced against anything not cci but occasionally Aguila will run flawlessly and Remington golden bullets
Remington Golden bullits ( and Thunderbolt) is stuff that never will come close to any of my equipment. I don’t even want it for free. Terrible.Some of my bolt action rifles don’t close properly!
@@woutergijs5246 Damn sorry to hear about your bolt action rifle. It’s funny to read stuff that isn’t necessarily true today like my S$W will fire anything I load them with now. I have quite a few thousands of.22 I’m actually kinda proud of all the different ammo I’ve managed to find and buy,? I have only shot one box of 500 T-bolts and they all went off but I had to clean a little more than normal
CCI standard are just over 1000feet per second. I would not compare them with an ammo that shoot at 1200 fps. But that's me
It's not Apples to Apples terms of velocity, CCI Mini-Mags would be closer. But CCI Mini-Mags are copper plated. CCI Standard was used because I wanted to compare two LRN ammo in a similar price range. Thanks for pointing that out and I hope you subscribe.
I liked your video and i understand what you where trying to show with it. You did great with it.
Thank you! I hope you subscribed.
The Group at 5:00 is pretty impressive for Cheap Bulk Federal White Box Ammo. Can't complain with that IMO.
Thanks. Usually the comments I get are "you shoot terrible". lol.
@@Moondog2A lol. Well it is the internet. You know how that can be. 🤣🤪
*You didn't mention that the Federal did get the tightest group of all 14 targets, #4 appeared to be about .15 smaller than the best the CCi produced.*
Good point. Thankfully you did. Hope you subscribe.
@@Moondog2A Yes Sir, I have been Sub'd for sometime now 👍😎
I prefer cci over the federal but at least with federal you can find and the bulk .ost of the time and federal is cheaper but if I had the money all my ammo would be cci
Agreed. At this point, shoot what you can buy without selling a kidney with prices the way they are. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.
All of that is very interesting, however I am a hunter so I usually only get one shot at my target. I need to know that I can hit the head of a squirrel at 25 yards of a rabbit at 50 yards. It looks like either brand would get the job done. All that being said I really appreciate the work you did and plan to recreate it with my 10/22.0
Thanks! Hope you subscribe.
I'm replying to the 17-minute mark..... Very interesting to note about the sweet spot due to the barrel being heated up (but not heated up TOO much)!
Pardon me, but I would like to critique what you say about the sweet spot being "16 to 20 shots in", and that is, it's 16-20 shots in *at the pace which you're firing*. Because you're taking considerable time to adjust the aim between shots, the barrel has more time to cool between rounds. If you were firing them off in rapid succession, then you would reach the sweet spot of the barrel temperature sooner, say, maybe 8-12 rounds in. So that is something to consider!
In fact, it would be interesting to take this test a bit further and measure your barrel temperature with an infrared thermometer while you're testing, then you could see what temperature the sweet spot actually is!
What I've learned from this video is that if I'm specifically trying to get an accurate grouping, then I should fire off several rounds for the sake of preheating the barrel to the sweet spot temperature!
I tested it with an IR thermometer once and was a bit disappointed. There isn't much if any temperature difference between 3-5 shots and 16-20 shots. It may be different if you're doing full-auto speed mag dump but normal target shooting tempo, the temp pretty much stayed stayed the same. In fact you have to leave the bolt open and let cool down for more than minute before the temp drops. But I never filmed it. I may just take you up on your suggested an do a video of it.
Side note: A center fire ELR shooter (over 600yrds) I know tells me that he and other serious competitors all use chiller fans when competing so that their barrels are all cold for every shot.
@@Moondog2A All very interesting, thanks for the reply!!
I love cci ammo for my handguns but availability is an issue and cost as well is just too much for plinking. I have 13,000 rounds of federal match and it shoots very well through all of my guns and provides adequate accuracy and reliability for the price.
Agreed. At this point, shoot what you can buy without selling a kidney with prices the way they are. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.
OK I have a question, if I zero my rifle with a 40 grain bullet and I have several different brands at 40 grains will my rifle still be zero as long as shoot 40 grain
Depends on what distance. At 25yrds it won't make much difference but at 50yrds or 100yrds, your zero will change between brands. Generally, I'm finding at 50yrds each brand has its own zero.
Nope!
It is not solely a function of bullet grain weight. Muzzle velocity and energy, as well as bullet type (lead round nose, copper plated, etc.) affect zero.
I have a single shot remington and I bought without having any idea that these ammunition are for semi-automatic rifles. I still don't have a used one. Do you think they can do the job on my rifle?
These will work in your bolt action (which model Remington?). Many bolt action shooters I know like shooting CCI Standard.
@@Moondog2A remington targetmaster 510
@@tonyv8925 definitely didn't work, after many brands I decided to use with the 40-grain norma tac standard, they did a very good job
When I do any ammo tests the rifle is clamped, to cancel out the human factor.
What kind of clamp do you use?
@@Moondog2ABecause it's a permanent fixture, I'll take a picture of it when I'm at the range on Saturday.
CCI has never given me as tight of groups as the federal auto match or águila.
What distance do you usually shoot at?
@@Moondog2A 50-75 yards, with some shots at 100 yards. Most of my squirrel shots are 50-75 at elevation up into the trees. But I have shot out 100 yards with paper and steel
Hello, maybe try a CZ or something more accurate than the 10 22.
Thanks for the response but this review isn't really about how to get the tightest groups with 22LR. It's just showing how these ammo group in the most popular 22LR semi-auto rifle sold in the US (the Ruger 10/22). That said, between these two ammo my CZ 457 groups this much better and prefers the Federal but there are much better ammo to use in a CZ 457 than either of these.
I wouldn’t even consider comparing the two
Cci standard velocity usually sets the standard-for 22 lr consistent rim thickness and load / report is usually the same every shot Lately they have been slipping i am still using old stock i have stashed
Auto match is Walmart ammo you will be lucky to find 20 out a pack of 325 with the same rim thickness. I am a old rimfire nut and learned from another old fart that all rimfire is not created equal , try SK standards or wolf same ammo you won’t go back to cci or federal but its all about budget
If I could find SK, Eley, or Wolf locally at a price that doesn't make me cry inside, I would by bricks of it. Please subscribe to this channel. :-)
I didn’t realize you where using a takedown
A barrel that comes off a gun like the takedown should not be used to test ammo , its my opinion but there is too much slop in a takedown especially a stock 1022
@@charlesdavaro8554 There is not such thing as a universal ammo accuracy test. I test the ammo in the gun I plan to shoot with. I own a 10/22 takedown and this is an ammo test for that rifle. Right?
charlesdavaro8554, I will leave my comment even thought you won't see it. I appreciate your comment because although most aren't aware, Auto Match rim thicknesses, shell weights, bullet diameters, shell lengths are all over the place, it is OK for informal plinking. The actual best improvement in accuracy is achieved by getting rid of politicians that restrict the sale of ammunition which forces the price up for what is available.
The Federal actually had some better groups in there . Any accuracy differential is negligible .
Agreed, its a pissing contest between these two. They're both good enough. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.
Seasoning factory barrels isn’t as important as seasoning match grade aftermarket barrels like Voodoo or Volquartsen, not to mention 50 yards is pretty close to truly judge accuracy. Stretch your test to 150-200 yards to see where higher end ammo (and barrels) really shine.
Rubbish on every point. All barrels should have a few fouling rounds for consistency before accuracy testing. Barrel 'grade' completely immaterial to this rule of thumb.
50 yards is perfect for 22lr accuracy testing, from bulk to match ammo, differences are readily apparent at that range and can be extrapolated out with less wind polluting the results.
Suggesting 150-200 yards is clearly from inexperience, and frankly absurd. Even the barest breeze nullifies the results. Even if zeroed at 100yds this CCI standard velocity suffers nearly 12inches of drop at 150yd and 32+inches at 200yd.
You obviously are unaware of long range precision .22 shooting. Of course there is a drop, there is a drop at 100 yards. That’s part of it. When, or if, you ever buy a high end .22 you will understand.
@@jeffstephenson4156 Irrelevant. There's long range shooting for virtually everything which is immaterial. 22lr past 100yards is ballistically a rainbow. Impractical and silly for grouped accuracy testing. Anyone with a modicum of 22lr experience would know this.
The starkly obvious point that .22lr is significantly affected by wind, especially at the 1050 fps here, let alone past 100yards. Any strict accuracy grouping testing should aim to neutralize the influence of wind on the result, not introduce it.
That is your opinion. Mine is on experience.
@@jeffstephenson4156 Clearly not.
Great video + info. Thank you.
I am in California, + am stocking up b4 the 11%, additional, tax/fee, on arms + anmo, starting July 1st.
I am down to the line, so pickins are VERY slim, plus, I'm frugal, lol, (ie cheap + broke) 😅🥺 But, I have heard good things about Auto-Match.
I bought a few boxes, but will definitely get a few more.
I haven't tried them or done any finding of the ,"best", yet though, as having only ranges available, + not that many, the cost + other factors that the great state of California has, ....has/does effect my abilities. 😥🥺👎
Seeing + hearing the additional input from your buddy got me wondering how lead vs copper plated/washed would compare to each other in regards to the heating-up equation. ........All other things being equal, ie. Brand, grain, nose type, ect.
Good stuff. 👍 Thank you again.
I've been taking advantage of Big-5s one-day flash sales and I'll probably make one last hike out to Sportsmans Warehouse to stock up on whatever they have on sale before July.
What distance were these tests shot? If 25 yards, my High Standard Victor shoots better than the mediocre Ruger 1022. For true testing, use a CZ 45x bolt-action rifle or a CMMG dedicated .22 LR AR upper receiver. All these will outshoot any 1022 almost every time with any ammo.
50yrds. Every gun is going to shoot different. My intent with the video is to show what these ammo's do in my 10/22. I've got ammo reviews for these ammo in a CZ 457 and I'm working on videos using a Ruger PR. Be sure to subscribe.
next time try CCI AR, 40grcprn 1200fps I think that they are as accurate fancy match grade ammo all of my guns love them.....
CCI AR does group better in my 10/22 than Mini-Mags but I haven't tested it vs. CCI Standard. I still remember 3 years PSA was offer CCI AR on clearance for $14/case. Sadly we'll never see those days again. Hope you subscribed.
No offense but your test demonstrates it is not the ammunition as much as it is the rifle IMHO. I think you can get to MOA accuracy. Here are a couple of suggestions. The standard takedown 10/22 is designed for hunting and general field use, not precision shooting. I believe your rifle has a "sporter" chamber so there is quite a jump before the bullet reaches the lands. The bolt may also be off in terms of head space (SAAMI is 0.0425 inch) but typically the 10/22s have larger head space unless you get a custom shop rifle. There are shops that will fix the bolt head space but you can't set back the barrel (shorten the chamber) on a takedown model. You can "accurize" by upgrading to a "target" bull barrel (0.92 inch) that has the Bentz chamber and one of many third party bolts (e.g., KIDD, Tandemkross) that provide better tolerance. Perhaps the best way to get better accuracy is with a better trigger like the Ruger BX trigger. If you can't do this, then polish the inside of the receiver with a scotch pad to remove paint residue. This lets the bolt slide more freely (less friction). Keep from using lubricant in the receiver unless you use a dry lube. One other trick is to set the takedown screw that holds the barreled action to the stock to about 14 inch pounds minimum and adjust tighter from there. One guy on YT achieves amazing accuracy by putting a piece of tape under the barrel to lessen harmonic vibration.
No offense taken. This was a test of this ammo in my off the shelf 10/22 TD rifle, nothing more since every rifle is different. Certainly an upgraded barrel and trigger would improve groups. But again, not the intent. Tha KS for tips by the way, hadn't heard of the tape barrel hack, I'll have to look that up.
@@Moondog2A YTber STKO uses tape under his barrel band and gets great accuracy because of the change in barrel harmonics. Without spending more money, you can scotch pad the inside of the receiver. Also watch some of the YT vids regarding adjusting the takedown screw torque setting - factory is 18-20 inch pounds, but some are getting great accuracy at anywhere between 14 and 30 inch pounds. But you'll need to test different torque settings. There are a couple of gunsmiths, e.g., Connecticut Precision Chambering, L.L.C., that will fix the bolt for you for about $50. Otherwise you would need to buy a precision bolt - Kidd or Tandemkross. The greatest gain will be in your trigger. Check out Brimstone Gunsmithing for that. LOL you could have bought a custom gun but customizing your stock 10/22 is much more fun.
Sort your rounds by weight and try again. Shoot only the same weight rounds (of all ammo if possible) otherwise your accuracy may be all over the place. I have found CCI to have the most discrepancy in terms of weight. Remington Thunderbolt usually shows much less variation in weight compared to the CCI in my experience so far.
Awsome but to me you're not shooting your 22, just pulling the trigger. The clamp is shooting your gun.
That's kind of the point. I'm trying to remove my shooting ability (or lack of it) from the testing variables. This video is an ammo test, not a showing-off-how-well-I-shoot test.
You are not testing the accuracy of CCI standard velocity against Federal Automatch ammunition.
You are not even testing them in how they perform in a Ruger 10/22.
You are testing how these ammunitions perform in your particular rifle with you shooting them.
If you want to test the performance of these two ammunitions, you will need to use a serious target rifle.
I'll give you the results you would get using a serious target rifle.
CCI is a little more accurate at 50 yards - typically 5 shot groups of about 0.6 inches
Automatch is pretty close - typically 5 shot groups of about 0.75 inches.
Your 2 inch groups reflect the rifle and your shooting technique.
Note that your groups are not repeatable.
One group is to the right.
Another to the left.
Then high or low.
If you really want to see how you rifle/ammunition performed, put your targets against a window.
Register each target on a page of tracing paper so that all 35 shots are shown/registration/superimposed on the tracing paper.
That will show you how each ammunition performs in your gun.
I predict that there will be no contest in your gun.
CCI will clearly win and the Automatch will look more like a shotgun pattern in your rifle.
Its easy to see if an ammunition is accurate.
You don't need the measure the groups.
Are the individual bullet hole touching each other?
When shooting with a serious target rifle:
The Typical group for Automatch is that 3 holes will touch other; 1 will just miss; 1 flier will open the group to 0.75 inches.
The typical group for the CCI is the 4 holes will touch; 1 flier will open the group to 0.6 inches.
Couldn't have more similar results myself. The only thing that shoots better for me is CCI suppressor ammo, which I thought strange, because of the large hollow, but I guess it might be due to the extra 5 grains of weight.
You lost me at using the takedown rifle. If its not tested on a longer bolt, it should at least be tested on a fixed barrel. .22s like longer barrels. the extra 2 inches on a standard 10 22 will make a big difference.
Think of it this way, your groups are going to be different/better if you're using a normal 10/22 or a bolt gun. But it's the relative differences between the brands that I'm testing.
22 standard works better on older guns and rifles
CCI or any standard velocity?
My 2015 hoard of Fed automatch is horrible. 1.5- 1.7" out of 3 different rifles at 25yds! The 3 rifles cloverleaf CCI standard it 25yds. I just want to keep squirrel out of my fruit trees. I have 6 or 8k of these junk automatch to deal with.
Have you tried it on a pistol? Hope you subscribe.
@@Moondog2A I've shot a few hundred Fed AM from an H&R 922. It was a tough game of battle ship. I need to test it against the CCI. All the CCI I have is in neat little christmas boxes. I ordered more yesterday.
This is still not bad for a bulk ammo box. Good enough for hunting tree rats. Thank you!
You're welcome. Hope you subcribe.
Why on Earth are you doing testing using the least accurate version of the Ruger 10/22, which is already a horrid platform? It's like testing race car fuels in a Kia Rio!
Because it's the 2nd if not the most common 22LR semi-auto rifle in America. Do you consider Federal Auto match to be race car grade?
@@Moondog2A Sorry I can't see a valid thought process on the first response. Should everyone accept the results of the test of a "common" though inferior product? The average factory 10/22 requires about $1000 in upgrades to turn it into a $300 rifle.
The next time you pull the barrel off that "takedown" use a mic to measure the depth of that chamber. The 10/22 usually has a chamber .125" deeper than needed, meaning the bullet is all the way out of the case before it engages the rifling.
All that said I do own a 10/22 receiver but it has a completely reworked trigger, squared up bolt face, rebuilt and glass bedded stock and I put a heavy fluted Douglas barrel on it 20 years ago. It shoots SK Pistol Match (I have a pre-2012 horde) into 1/4"@25 yards but shoots your CCI Standard into just a little larger hole and the cost effectiveness of the cheaper CCI is justifiable for the minute accuracy loss.
As for the Federal Automatch, I do not consider it at all! I tried one bulk pack during the Obama ammo shortage due to that being all that was available locally for more than a year. I still have most of it for use in one rifle that seems to like it well enough. I never bought another pack and never will, unless that is all that is available through another presidential administration..
@@leonstancliff7218If my TD is the least accurate 10/22 available then you can be assured that this ammo will shoot better in your 10/22.
I'm glad you put in the work and money to acurize your 10/22.
30-60 seconds of information dragged out for 18 minutes.
It's a skill, I know. Of course, if you read my description you'll find the CHAPTERS. You can skip to the testing RESULTS.
Glenn, there was a lot of useful information contained within this video. Take a nap and re-watch, maybe you'll get more out of it after you've refreshed a bit! ;)
Could have been a 10 minute video. Why bore us with all the meaningless foulers?
It was to address criticism from an older video that I needed to "season" the barrel. This test attempted to determine if that was necessary. It wasn't for my 10/22. I've since streamlined my testing videos to only 20rnds.
Were you really required to wear a mask at the range???
Back in October 2020 in California, yes. I was allowed on an law enforcement range but the Department had to follow County Health Dept. Guidelines on County Property. But that was in 2020 but California politics are still idiotic. Be sure to SUBscribe for more crazy California gun culture.
Unfortunate people use rugers for these tests .... while this is the best of I've seen of the rugers they are still so bad...
Well, if a Ruger is the rifle you own it follows that a Ruger is the rifle you'd test ammo with, no?
@@Moondog2A it doesn't give a good test for different ammo though as it shoots them all bad...
@@Dieseldoggy502 Haha. Well you should see my other ammo video comparing ammo between my Ruger 10/22 and my Marlin 60. Both are pretty close to each other at 50yrds. So maybe it's the me that's bad?
@@Moondog2A my bergara b14 r carbon shoots 1 hole group all day with ammo it likes
@@Moondog2A where is that video you have so many videos lol
I’ve probably been shooting longer than you’ve been alive. But hey, you are right. I’ve never shot a high dollar .22 rifle over 50 yards and all .22 rifles are the same, no matter the quality. SMH
If your statement were true, high quality after-market target barrels would not out shoot factory barrels as well as and as often as they do Jeff! I'll concede that your point does hold some validity, as the majority of barrels will perform beyond the abilities of the shooter and I include myself in that statement.
I don't own any Anshutz .22lr rifles, but consider the reputation that they hold in comparison to many other fine .22lr rifles! I own a couple of CZ .22lr rifles that come very close to an Anshutz in accuracy, however, they just will not do what those will! So, there is my evidence... :)
@@rt66rc86 I guess you missed my sarcasm. I know for a fact that high quality after market barrels will always outshoot factory barrels past 50 yards. Did you miss my “SMH” at the end of my comment?
@@jeffstephenson4156 Well Sir! To be out right honest about it, I don't have a clue in hades what "SMH" means! :) Maybe its my generation...
@@rt66rc86 SMH= shaking my head. Come on, I’m 55 and I knew it. 😉
@@jeffstephenson4156 Hmmm, "SMH" yeah, I should have guessed it! Well Jeff, I'll know better next time won't I?!? :)
Sorry dude, not trying to be mean, but this has to be one of the most flawed methods of "accuracy" testing I have ever seen. Not fair to the ammo or the rifle.
Care to elaborate on the flaws?
@@Moondog2A Sure man. Again , I'm not trying to be mean or criticize, and I do appreciate your efforts and what you are attempting to do.
First of all, if you're going to use a "machine" type rest to secure the gun during firing, it has to be rock solid and stable. Consistency is the key in accuracy testing, whether the test is for the rifle or the ammo or both. The gun has to recoil exactly the same, or as close as possible with each shot. I think you would have gotten better results shooting off of good bags, or a good rear bag and benchrest, or even a good bipod, and getting down on the gun using good shooting form and trigger control. Ditch the plastic table and the plastic rest. Do your test either mechanically or human, can't have it both ways.
If you watch the firing sequences at .5 or .25 speed you can see the inconsistent recoil. Also can see inconsistencies in crosshairs on target before shot breaks. Notice how some shots are left, right, high, low. Solid platform, solid consistent rest, practiced trigger control, and good shooting form should produce much better results.
If you're goal is to test the ammo itself, use a more suitable rifle, not a lightweight, sporter barreled, take-down version. I am a big fan of the 10/22, and currently own 3. One is a Kidd barreled, Kidd trigger, Magpul stocked semi custom that will shoot .3, .4 groups all day long with CCI SV, at 50 yds. Of course, even match ammo can have an occasional flier.
Your process of starting clean and cold, and firing fouling/seasoning shots is correct. Although 20 rounds may be a few more than needed. On the right track there.
I'm sure someone may disagree, and you know what they say about opinions. My opinions are based on over 50 years of shooting, 30+ years of handloading and load testing for various rifles in several calibers, rifle and pistol. My .02 cents worth.
Best regards and good luck in your future testing and videos.
@@kevinbain7153 I agree with most of your comments. But you know that no ammo shoots equally well in all guns. I wanted to see which among these 3 ammo shoots best in my Ruger 10/22 TD, never claiming that these results were applicable to all rifles or even all Ruger 10/22s. Take this test as a "worst case" scenario as far as "normal" shooting.
@@Moondog2A Absolutely 100% agree that no ammo shoots equally well in all guns. That's why we test ammo until we find a "keeper" for the gun in question. Also why we handload to find what the gun likes. With factory ammo, even match ammo, you will experience variations from lot to lot.
The first line of your introduction states "How accurate is CCI Standard and Federal Auto Match 22LR ammo in a factory Ruger 10/22?". My point is this is not a fair test, due to the testing method, for the rifle or the ammo, for the reasons I stated. The resulting groups were horrible at best, and I would bet my bottom dollar that rifle will shoot better than the test results, with either ammo.
If you are satisfied with your results then so be it. I'm only saying, IMO, you won't find the right ammo for your rifle, or any other using that method and equipment. Best of luck all the same.