@@TheRamenSeal yes, but why is one better? I assume it's just a harder/stronger bond (hence heat), but I'm not confident that that's the primary or only reason.
i work in a manufacturing plant and braze 8 hours a day. i’ve found that heat rises throughout the copper rather than sinks. heat the joint more than the pipe going up bro.
@@Jonnyblacknell i work with a double headed torch, and i find that heating the female joint to braze temp and then the male going into the joint to help melt the braze. the hot female joint will have capillary action this way and nothing gets overheated. it only takes a touch on the male to get it runnin.
@@krazykarl2413 Absolutely. don’t overheat anything, you’ll soon find out there’s a fine line between braze temp and overheated. if it’s overheated, it won’t accept alloy and it’ll bond as good as water and oil mix. this is, assuming you’re gonna be manufacturing and have the natural gas/oxy mix with gas flux. makes the copper braze better and provides a better bond. in manufacturing, paste flux is a thing of the past. Know your different flame types. Carbuerizing (think that’s how it spelled) Neutral (brazing flame) Oxidizing (name speaks for itself) means too much oxygen, and an easy way to tell that is your torch will hiss. and like it said in the comment above, heat rises in copper just like how it does with anything, heat will rise up the copper pipe and now down. heat your female joints first, that will also help with your capillary action and draw the alloy into the joint. you don’t want it piled up on top because that makes a weak joint and will burst. working with pressures of 300psi-500psi working with 410a, it has to be a good joint or somebody could seriously get fucked up. this is about all i can offer you; most things you will learn with practice. we’re provided the alloys that we have to use so i’m not sure about that aspect of your job, but know what alloy to use where. in HVAC applications, we use a 2% and 6%. one cools harder than the other and is more susceptible to cracking under vibration from the compressor and whatnot. other than that, it’s a super easy job, easiest money i ever made. hope you enjoy it as much as i do!
Brazing is just soldering with the higher melting point, stronger filler materials. I'm a big fan of brazing because my brazes are better than my welds on steel tubing. Just uses a lot of gas. Some of the fillers are almost as strong as base metal. Copper phosphorus rod's I think also work good for brazing up leaks in brass radiators with liquid in them.. but radiators in vehicles are aluminum today
@@KiloFeenix That dosen't make any sense at all. Both soldering and brazing are often done with torches. But not always, they are also both done with electric flameless heat too.
I just got a oxy/acetylene rig, don't have everything set up yet but have brazed some cast iron and steel. It is soooo useful, you're gonna love it when you end up with one.
@@miles11weFor the record, the torch in the video isn't an oxy-acetylene torch, it's an air-acetylene torch. Probably a Turbotorch brand. Some HVAC use them for brazing copper vs a oxy-acetylene porta-torch.
As an armature winder we used silver solder whenever we needed a joint to last and withstand the vibrations of a motor! We would use a product called Form-a-Jig as a heat sink to prevent any damage to the insulation of the windings. Some times welding a 1/2 to 1 inch piece of copper took a massive amount of heat to make the weld and there were times when you only had one chance to do it!
If you need protection against vibration braze, otherwise you annealing the copper making it soft and your overall burst strength is reduced. I use sta brite 8 wheneverpossible
I don’t have, nor would buy a brazing kit, because it’s too expensive and I’d never use it enough. I have done silver (3-5%) solder joints. I did my own A/C joints with silver solder 20 years ago and they’re still holding today. I realize that brazed joints are better and stronger, but how do silver soldered joints compare? Thanks and comments please.
We solder all the time here in the states and I’m not a fan of all the little quirks (I.e things that can wrong) love the finished look but you can’t mess around during the process. So hearing you say that soldering is not allowed gives me hope that we’ll abandon soldering water lines.
I've brazed steel to steel and tested it stronger than the steel itself. Could put 2 pliers on either piece and the would bend, and the steel would tear, but the brazing would budge. I suck at welding, but if something needs brazed, I'm ur guy, lol😅
The "stronger joint" idea I believe only applies theoretically if all other things are equal. Does not account for the huge beef-up of double-layer attachment with standard soldered fittings. This joint could much more easily be levered into leaking by pushing on one leg, than would a standard 1/2" soldered joint
I remember the first & only thing I brazed, a screwdriver. Threw it into water and pulled it out by hand after 15-20 seconds. Lost my finger prints for a few weeks.
Im I newbie and I use propane and a lot of it for soldering copper. I use it because it’s cheap and I can get it anywhere. Besides I live in a trailer park and because of by law I can’t use a oxy acetaline torch
So what actually MAKES tge physical connection ? I get weoding and how it combines the metal of the mating components, but how do soldering and brazing _work_ ? Is it a mechanical lock at the molecular level between the brazing rod metal and the surfaces of the two parts being joined ? I can see how that wouod do the job and g8ve an excellently _strong/ uni9n, but as that's only a guess , I'd _LIKE_ to gain some insight from someone who KNOWS ? Asking - thanks ! - C .
Technically you could, but it would take a very long time. Oxyacetylene burns much hotter than propane, MAP gas, etc, and since the copper should ideally be red-hot when you braze, oxyacetylene is what basically everyone uses.
@@joshm3563Except this guy, he's not using an oxy-acetylene torch. He's using an Air-Acetylene torch. Actually a lot of HVAC guys use air-acetylene torches. Saves carrying around an oxygen bottle.
No it doesn't anneal the pipe. To anneal copper you need to heat it to red then chill it immediately in water. Heating to red and letting it cool naturally doesn't work, it's not steel
@@ethanwasme4307 I'm a med gas certified plumber not allowed to clean with sandpaper only allowed to wipe off with damp cloth after it cools and med gas you have to get it cherry red before you even start and not allowed to bend silfose (silver brazing rod) like Ac and appliance people do. it has to be straight and has to be the no more than 15% silver when finished have to test with nitrogen . So ugly joints lol but when I insulate them it looks good even mitre the 90s with the armor flex insulation
@@ethanwasme4307 and what he's doing in video is a water joint med gas you buy a tee and push into cup then come back around and cap but have to be careful I've melted fittings in trade school a few times cause I like oxy acetylene torches but takes a minute to find that sweet spot then you can haul ass with it
@@richardgraham3658 bro it's med gas you pull a purge and have to have it cherry red it's always black 😅when done im allowed to wipe down after it cools off
Brazing is called a cohesion weld when you mig or stick weld it's called an adhesion because you're adding the same steel filler wire to the steel weld joint or it can be aluminum for that matter.
I think you have those backwards. Not a welder, but in chemistry “cohesion” is a material sticking to itself/more of that same material, while “adhesion” is a material sticking to another (different) material
The Torch he is using is an air-acetylene "turbotorch" You can braze with MAPP or propane, but it's difficult as MAPP and propane torches are not as hot as an acetylene torch and it can be hard to get it hot enough to braze.
Brazing and Soldering are the same process ... You're soft Soldering and Brazing is Hard Soldering the only difference is the filler rod...and gas ....depending on the material
@@Onhaey "It’s a B tank" Given that we can't see the tank, you have no idea if it's a B tank. Could be an MC tank. Or if he's working in a shop where moving around a jobsite isn't a factor, he could be hooked up to a larger tank.
Soldering is a process called capillary action which is the drawing of a liquid between two wetted surfaces via flux and is typically done at 400 degrees F. Brazing copper to copper has no flux and is typically 1,000+ degrees F. Brazing may be a more solid joint, but when brazing you anneal the copper making it super soft and easy to bend. You k ow this though. You shoukd do a video of you pulling that tee, if you haven't already.
@andrewalexander9492 by definition capillary action is a drawing of a liquid between two wetted surfaces, so what wets the surfaces? I absolutely disagree. Your filler rod moves with heat. With solder you can touch the fitting and it flows through it. With brazing you control the flow with heat. Maybe they're saying the brazing rod wets the surfaces, but brazing rod definitely doesn't suck in and flow like solder. I'm a union pipefitter and I do both regularly. I could be wrong though, it's happened before....
@@davidrussell9290 You can disagree if you want, that just makes you mistaken. Brazing filler absolutely does suck right into a space like solder. what on earth makes you think it doesn't? Your understanding of capillary action is really badly flawed. there is *nothing* about capillarity action that say the surfaces need to be wetted by some other liquid first. Look, take two pieces of dry flat glass, and place them together. Put a little water next to the edges of the glass and you can watch the water get pulled between the sheets of class. That's Capillary action. It did not have to be pre-wetted (really not sure where you got hat idea) that identical effectr will work on melted solder, and melted braze filler. You may be confused because you've only done braze-welding, and when you're doing that, you're just heating the filler enough to adhere to the steel, and not flow by capillary action. You absolutely can braze two flat steel surfaces together if you heat the work and the braze filler enough for it to flow between them by capillary action. I have done this. And that's exactly how an ACR guy brazes copper lines. The fittings are pretty much identical to plumbing fittings, and when you join them by brazing, you heat the fittings up hot enough for the braze filler to flow by capillary action, and it will flow, all the way the the bottom of the fitting, by capillary action, just exactly as solder will flow in to the bottom of the fitting if you're sweating a joint. For brazing copper no flux is required, because if you're using a copper-phosphorus filler rod, the phosphorous acts in place of the flux. Most braze fillers for copper also have silver in addition to the phosphorus (Sil-fos is one brand name you may have heard of) but the silver isn't necessary, I have brazed copper fittings with rods containing only copper and phosphorus.
@@davidrussell9290 Here's a link to a you tube video by LucasMmilhaupt (supplier of brazing products, including SIL-FOS filler) In it they explain how capillary action is essential for brazing (OK, for whatever reason I can't post a comment with a link to the video. it's titled "Importance of Capillary Action in the Brazing a you tube search for that title should get you to the video) Obviously one of the larger suppliers of brazing products things that brazing involves capillary action. I think you should call them and tell them they're wrong. I think they'd probably laugh at you.
@andrewalexander9492 the fittings are exactly like solder fittings, except they're measured in O.D. and not I.D. I am just going off of the definition I learned in trade school from the United Association, like I clearly stated though, I could be wrong. We always fill from the bottom, not the top. So if I am mistaken, and I very well may be, it is in the "two wetted surfaces" part. I will definitely look into it. I've soldered, brazed, and welded exotic metals since 1998. I know you can braze two flat surfaces together. We used to make saddles out of copper instead of pulling tees on 6" pipe, so I do understand that. When running medical gas we have to have 100% penetration, and that filler metal absolutely does not suck up into all of the fitting. We move and manipulate it with heat. I've cut hundreds of the fittings in half for cert tests. I'll check my definition tomorrow though. Appreciate your input.
It doesn't look like brazing it looks more like sil-fos. Brazing rod has Flux on it. The rod he is using doesn't. Plus, the finished joint has no Flux on it.
Uhhh, some brazing rods are flux coated, not all of them. A lot of them are not coated The brazing rods for brazing copper do not need flux as they contain phosphorus, and the phosphorus in the filler metal acts like the flux. SIl-Fos is just a brand name for a SIlver/Copper/Phosphorus brazing rod intended for brazing copper to copper.
Capillary action. It adheres to the microscopic pits and valleys of the material while also wicking into the gaps of the joint. Extremely strong, fast and easy to complete
Brazing and sweating are pretty much the same except one is at a higher temp, one is at a lower temp. Still dissimilar metals. brazing is nothing like TIG.
Yeah this guy is sweating copper not brazing look it up he's shows in the video he doesn't know how the proper soldier a copper joint uses way to much heat no flux brazing is a lot like tig welding just using a welding torch not a tig torch that uses electricity heat in one hand filler metal in the other look it up before tell someone they are wrong asss
@@nicholassoviak2386 dude…. That IS brazing. Hes using a brazing rod. Hes using an acetylene torch. You dont need flux when brazing. Do you even understand what youre talking about?
@@nicholassoviak2386Congratulations, just about everything you said is wrong. This is in fact brazing. As per the AWS, brazing is a joining process with a filler metal with a melting point greater than 850 degrees F. You don't need flux when brazing copper with a filler metal whcih contains phosphorous. For copper joints, the phosphorus acts like flux. This guy is using a silver/copper/phosphorus brazing rod. Pretty much all brazing rods intended for copper pipe are silver/copper/phosphorus.
Ima plumber not a hvac technician...I now when you braze copper it becomes .. annealed.. ( softer ) vs ..soldering. that challenges the integrity of the tubing/fitings.. even more so in cold climates ....also not high pressure ..so ...all I'm saying is it's always been strange to me that the common practice is brazing the lines over soft soldering.
@@EastDallasKicks I think the newer versions are a bit better. One of the problem with turbos is a lot of guys who use 'em don't know there's larger tip sizes for them. I think they cap out at like 2 1/2" lines, versus a standard oxy-ace that can do up to 4" before you get into specialty gear. They still get hot enough to braze, it's just it takes longer to heat up and having the copper hot for longer means you have to put a lot more effort into keeping stuff like valves cool while you work.
You have no idea whether there's nitrogen is being used or not. Regardless, the purpose of the nitrogen is not to prevent annealing. It's to prevent oxidation of the copper on the inside of the pipe, whcih causes a black oxide scale which can later flake off and damage refrigeration equipment.
@andrewalexander9492 "Nitrogen is used in annealing to create a protective atmosphere that suppresses oxidation and decarburization, which may degrade the material’s surface". Yeah if you aren't quenching your copper after your braze it you are creating a weak joint or a weak piece of copper, purging nitrogen prevents annealing AND CARBON. Go back to school pole socket.
@@SuperHeat420 "Nitrogen is used in annealing to create a protective atmosphere that suppresses oxidation and decarburization, which may degrade the material’s surface". I don't know where you cut-n-pasted that from, but I guarantee you that its is from somewhere they're talking about steel. "Decarbuization" is referring to the loss of carbon from steel. Carbon is one of the things that makes steel, steel, and not iron. On the other hand, copper pipe doesn't have any significant carbon. Copper pipe os 99.9% pure copper. so "decarburizatrion" isn't even part of the conversation when you're talking about copper pipe Also, you don't quench copper to keep it from being annealed. You're mixing up heat treating process for steel, Copper, unlike steel is quenched during annealing. You heat it cherry red, then you quench it. (google annealing copper if you don't believe it) Yes I've done it, yes it works. Yes, it's the opposite of steel whcih need to be cooled slowly to anneal. So, congratulations, virtually everything you've posted is wrong here. That's quite an accomplishment. LOL
@andrewalexander9492 i never said it was only used to prevent annealing in copper. It is also used to prevent annealing in steal, or in fact almost all metals when being heated. I am not mixing up any metals. I am speaking specifically about brazing copper. You do not heat copper cherry red and then quench it when brazing. Holy cow you shouldn't be around a torch. I dont need to google anything. I stand by my original point. Heat was applied in the wrong area, no nitrogen during purge(you can tell when the flame hit the joint, 1-3 psi of nitrogen will make it dance a little, 20 years welding copper will tell ya) its a shit braze. Sorry honey.
@@SuperHeat420 I didn't *say* that you heat copper cherry red then quench it when brazing.learn to read I said you do it when you're annealing it. and that's exactly correct, that's how you anneal copper, so when you said you have to quench it to *prevent* annealing (like you do steel) you're talking out of your ass. And if you think that you quench copper to prevent annealing, you absolutely are mixing up metals, because you do that for steel, but you o not for copper. And the fact that you're quoting stuff whcih talks about "decarburizing" and thinking it applies to copper tells us you don't know shit about metallurgy. That's a fact, copper pipe has pretty much zero carbon, so "decarburizing" it is physically impossible. Look at this point it's pretty clear that you're pine of those blowhards that can never admit to being wrong, so waste of my time to continue responding, b ut if anyone is reading and is wondering who is correct here. google is your freind there are plenty of references which will tell you that quenching is a part of the process of annealing copper, not something you do to prevent annealing it, and plenty of references whcih will tell you that the reason copper lines are purged with nitrogen it to prevent oxidation on the inside of the pint (has nothing to do with annealing or not annealing)
I thought the same thing when I first saw the extrusion hub. Might be in the description that I never read but can you let us know what extrusion tool you used. It's been 20 years since I have extruded copper im sure the tech has got a lot better.
@@LearnPlumbing Drilling into a non annealed hard drawn copper tube makes a rougher hole and it takes longer. The specifications that most plumbers don't bother to read states that you're to anneal the tubing prior to tee-drilling it. Yootoob is full of "plumbers" who don't know their trade or code mostly. Good plumbers don't have the time to post stuff online nor have the desire to.
@daddy1571 Well I'm a very Good Plumber and I post video to hand that hard earned expertise down to those who are interested. RUclips is a great platform to learn Plumbing or anything really. Also a great platform for critics to watch videos amd leave comments as of they know something but most the time really don't. 😉
I like where he explained the difference.
He said above 1400° F, that's probably the cutoff. Brazing is just hotter than soldering.
@@TheRamenSeal yes, but why is one better? I assume it's just a harder/stronger bond (hence heat), but I'm not confident that that's the primary or only reason.
@@GregMcNamergoogle bruh
Brazing is anything above 800F, below is soldering per AWS.
Silver instead of leAd Tin molecule bondage
we dont solder for over 25 years here in germany now. Insurance wont even accept it in case of a issue. Totally mindblowing seeing this
It's very common here in USA. Soldering copper to copper works well enough to last over 20 years based on my house
i work in a manufacturing plant and braze 8 hours a day. i’ve found that heat rises throughout the copper rather than sinks. heat the joint more than the pipe going up bro.
So would you focus directly on the joint the whole time? Cheers for your insight Issa!
@@Jonnyblacknell i work with a double headed torch, and i find that heating the female joint to braze temp and then the male going into the joint to help melt the braze. the hot female joint will have capillary action this way and nothing gets overheated. it only takes a touch on the male to get it runnin.
HVAC instructor says the same
That’s a job I start this Monday any tips for a new learner?
@@krazykarl2413 Absolutely. don’t overheat anything, you’ll soon find out there’s a fine line between braze temp and overheated. if it’s overheated, it won’t accept alloy and it’ll bond as good as water and oil mix. this is, assuming you’re gonna be manufacturing and have the natural gas/oxy mix with gas flux. makes the copper braze better and provides a better bond. in manufacturing, paste flux is a thing of the past.
Know your different flame types.
Carbuerizing (think that’s how it spelled)
Neutral (brazing flame)
Oxidizing (name speaks for itself) means too much oxygen, and an easy way to tell that is your torch will hiss.
and like it said in the comment above, heat rises in copper just like how it does with anything, heat will rise up the copper pipe and now down. heat your female joints first, that will also help with your capillary action and draw the alloy into the joint. you don’t want it piled up on top because that makes a weak joint and will burst. working with pressures of 300psi-500psi working with 410a, it has to be a good joint or somebody could seriously get fucked up.
this is about all i can offer you; most things you will learn with practice. we’re provided the alloys that we have to use so i’m not sure about that aspect of your job, but know what alloy to use where. in HVAC applications, we use a 2% and 6%. one cools harder than the other and is more susceptible to cracking under vibration from the compressor and whatnot.
other than that, it’s a super easy job, easiest money i ever made. hope you enjoy it as much as i do!
Brazing is just soldering with the higher melting point, stronger filler materials. I'm a big fan of brazing because my brazes are better than my welds on steel tubing. Just uses a lot of gas. Some of the fillers are almost as strong as base metal. Copper phosphorus rod's I think also work good for brazing up leaks in brass radiators with liquid in them.. but radiators in vehicles are aluminum today
if you want to get some great brazeing joints on copper you need to get a gas fluxer you will be amazed at the quality of weld joints you will get....
The use of a flame is what distinguishes the difference between soldering and brazing.
@@KiloFeenixthat's not true at all. The only difference is the temperature. Under 840°f it's called soldering and above 840°f it's called brazing
@@KiloFeenix That dosen't make any sense at all. Both soldering and brazing are often done with torches. But not always, they are also both done with electric flameless heat too.
I've had the honor of trying silver solder and wow is it different but fun at the same time
That torch makes it look like a lot more fun than my little map gas toy torch lol
I just got a oxy/acetylene rig, don't have everything set up yet but have brazed some cast iron and steel. It is soooo useful, you're gonna love it when you end up with one.
@@miles11weFor the record, the torch in the video isn't an oxy-acetylene torch, it's an air-acetylene torch. Probably a Turbotorch brand. Some HVAC use them for brazing copper vs a oxy-acetylene porta-torch.
The turbo torch head for map gas can easily do the job for 1inch and below fairly quick
I worked at Carrier and did a lot of brazing. It was fun!
I used to silver solder diesel generator radiators all the time. It’s fun.
I have been seeing a lot of brazing vids lately. Finally one that didn't get so hot the copper was black.
As an armature winder we used silver solder whenever we needed a joint to last and withstand the vibrations of a motor! We would use a product called Form-a-Jig as a heat sink to prevent any damage to the insulation of the windings. Some times welding a 1/2 to 1 inch piece of copper took a massive amount of heat to make the weld and there were times when you only had one chance to do it!
If you need protection against vibration braze, otherwise you annealing the copper making it soft and your overall burst strength is reduced. I use sta brite 8 wheneverpossible
A question I had since weld school was that if soldering is done below 840°F and brazing is done above 840°F, which one is done AT 840°F?
Brasering😅
Thats where u glue it
It's called brazzers, look it up
Be sure to do a nitrogen purge first
I don’t have, nor would buy a brazing kit, because it’s too expensive and I’d never use it enough. I have done silver (3-5%) solder joints. I did my own A/C joints with silver solder 20 years ago and they’re still holding today. I realize that brazed joints are better and stronger, but how do silver soldered joints compare? Thanks and comments please.
Nice ❤ good work 🤩
We only braise in aus, soldering hasn't been allowed for decades.
Not even lead free solder?
Why
We solder all the time here in the states and I’m not a fan of all the little quirks (I.e things that can wrong) love the finished look but you can’t mess around during the process. So hearing you say that soldering is not allowed gives me hope that we’ll abandon soldering water lines.
Now let's discuss that vertical slit in the pipe, just under your repairs.
That definitely looks like a graphite line to show where the new pipe needed installed.
@@columbo9336lmao some people don't measure I know you fixed or replaced something you thought a 5 year old did
I think that's a tic mark for layout.
@@YTsux24-7 Indeed. I believe you are correct, and I am incorrect.
I stand corrected. 😅
I've brazed steel to steel and tested it stronger than the steel itself. Could put 2 pliers on either piece and the would bend, and the steel would tear, but the brazing would budge. I suck at welding, but if something needs brazed, I'm ur guy, lol😅
The "stronger joint" idea I believe only applies theoretically if all other things are equal. Does not account for the huge beef-up of double-layer attachment with standard soldered fittings. This joint could much more easily be levered into leaking by pushing on one leg, than would a standard 1/2" soldered joint
Also the joint is annealed through the higher heat so I think it's way weaker.
Finally someone who knows how to braze.
Didn't see any flux
shouldn’t he be feeding that rod into the joint instead of using it like a paint brush
@@austinc5144 no. Brazing isn’t like welding. It flows to where it needs to go.
@austinc5144 you can but with smaller flame
@@FosterChild he doesn’t need flux for this type. Or, it’s flux in the gas itself.
Cool bro
I remember the first & only thing I brazed, a screwdriver. Threw it into water and pulled it out by hand after 15-20 seconds. Lost my finger prints for a few weeks.
A key part of thermal dynamics is time. A lot of physics isn't part of "common sense".
Im I newbie and I use propane and a lot of it for soldering copper. I use it because it’s cheap and I can get it anywhere. Besides I live in a trailer park and because of by law I can’t use a oxy acetaline torch
Would brazing be better than soldering when it comes to making a still?
I would say yes brazing would be better because brass is not toxic and some pipe solders have lead in them!
@daveooooo some brass also has lead in it. Be cautious either way. You always need to check if what you're working with is food safe.
Good to KNOW
Is brazing the same as the silver soldering done in jewelry?
So what actually MAKES tge physical connection ? I get weoding and how it combines the metal of the mating components, but how do soldering and brazing _work_ ?
Is it a mechanical lock at the molecular level between the brazing rod metal and the surfaces of the two parts being joined ?
I can see how that wouod do the job and g8ve an excellently _strong/ uni9n, but as that's only a guess , I'd _LIKE_ to gain some insight from someone who KNOWS ?
Asking - thanks !
- C .
I like to call brazing the "big boy soldering"
i’m currently in trade school and this is something similar to what i’m about to do today 🙏🏿
Do you purchase the formed copper lower pipe from the supply house Sir ???
No. You use a tool called a T-Drill.
Thank you Sir for the info. @@flouise1891
Can you braze with a regular propane blow torch?
Technically you could, but it would take a very long time. Oxyacetylene burns much hotter than propane, MAP gas, etc, and since the copper should ideally be red-hot when you braze, oxyacetylene is what basically everyone uses.
@@joshm3563Except this guy, he's not using an oxy-acetylene torch. He's using an Air-Acetylene torch. Actually a lot of HVAC guys use air-acetylene torches. Saves carrying around an oxygen bottle.
How'd you make that copper fittings in the larger pipe?
There’s a tool called a t-drill
T drilling sucks
@@TeamTnA44 why?
Does that anneal the pipe? Is it much softer after brazing?
It anneals it , it's not gonna be getting crushed so it really doesn't matter
No it doesn't anneal the pipe. To anneal copper you need to heat it to red then chill it immediately in water. Heating to red and letting it cool naturally doesn't work, it's not steel
👌
i braze too just makes such a ugly black joint but is alot stronger than the tin solder with flux
i clean a large portion of the pipe pretty before and after, never looks as good as solder
@@ethanwasme4307 I'm a med gas certified plumber not allowed to clean with sandpaper only allowed to wipe off with damp cloth after it cools and med gas you have to get it cherry red before you even start and not allowed to bend silfose (silver brazing rod) like Ac and appliance people do. it has to be straight and has to be the no more than 15% silver when finished have to test with nitrogen . So ugly joints lol but when I insulate them it looks good even mitre the 90s with the armor flex insulation
@@ethanwasme4307 and what he's doing in video is a water joint med gas you buy a tee and push into cup then come back around and cap but have to be careful I've melted fittings in trade school a few times cause I like oxy acetylene torches but takes a minute to find that sweet spot then you can haul ass with it
Too much soot probably means you're heating it too fast and burning it
@@richardgraham3658 bro it's med gas you pull a purge and have to have it cherry red it's always black 😅when done im allowed to wipe down after it cools off
No T connector used?
Brazing is called a cohesion weld when you mig or stick weld it's called an adhesion because you're adding the same steel filler wire to the steel weld joint or it can be aluminum for that matter.
I think you have those backwards. Not a welder, but in chemistry “cohesion” is a material sticking to itself/more of that same material, while “adhesion” is a material sticking to another (different) material
And what is sweating (ie sweating copper pipe)?
"sweating" refers to soldering a copper pipe joint with a filler metal (solder) whcih melts at a lower temperature.
When doing this do u have propane or map gas
The Torch he is using is an air-acetylene "turbotorch" You can braze with MAPP or propane, but it's difficult as MAPP and propane torches are not as hot as an acetylene torch and it can be hard to get it hot enough to braze.
@@andrewalexander9492 my 2nd guess was a torch
Good 👍 😊
Good ❤
Why can't you install t fitting?
Brazing and Soldering are the same process ... You're soft Soldering and Brazing is Hard Soldering the only difference is the filler rod...and gas ....depending on the material
Brazing is perfor.ed at 840 f and above
Brazed in plumbing for anything we ran underground or under a slab
💪🏽💪🏽🔥🔥
Just making my hauls even better when stripping copper pipes😈
I use silver. It’s harder to work with but it never leaks for me
Can't beat that silver solder
What torch are you using in this video?
Looks like a turbo torch with a small tip.
It’s a B tank, acetylene
@@Onhaey "It’s a B tank" Given that we can't see the tank, you have no idea if it's a B tank. Could be an MC tank. Or if he's working in a shop where moving around a jobsite isn't a factor, he could be hooked up to a larger tank.
Tee pulling. Nice
Dont you fill the pipe up with nitrogen or something to deplete the oxygen? 🤷 What do i know
In medical gas or high purity installations you would purge with N2 but not just for water pipes.
It’s also a T-pull so the cup is shit and you need to braze.
Brazing is a skill I wish to learn I'm 23
Brazing is halfway between welding and soldering, it’s pretty much welding except your a few degrees under melting what your joining
Soldering is a process called capillary action which is the drawing of a liquid between two wetted surfaces via flux and is typically done at 400 degrees F. Brazing copper to copper has no flux and is typically 1,000+ degrees F. Brazing may be a more solid joint, but when brazing you anneal the copper making it super soft and easy to bend. You k ow this though. You shoukd do a video of you pulling that tee, if you haven't already.
If you're brazing copper pipes, the filler metal is also drawn into the joint by capillary action, if you're doing it correctly.
@andrewalexander9492 by definition capillary action is a drawing of a liquid between two wetted surfaces, so what wets the surfaces? I absolutely disagree. Your filler rod moves with heat. With solder you can touch the fitting and it flows through it. With brazing you control the flow with heat. Maybe they're saying the brazing rod wets the surfaces, but brazing rod definitely doesn't suck in and flow like solder. I'm a union pipefitter and I do both regularly. I could be wrong though, it's happened before....
@@davidrussell9290 You can disagree if you want, that just makes you mistaken. Brazing filler absolutely does suck right into a space like solder. what on earth makes you think it doesn't? Your understanding of capillary action is really badly flawed. there is *nothing* about capillarity action that say the surfaces need to be wetted by some other liquid first. Look, take two pieces of dry flat glass, and place them together. Put a little water next to the edges of the glass and you can watch the water get pulled between the sheets of class. That's Capillary action. It did not have to be pre-wetted (really not sure where you got hat idea) that identical effectr will work on melted solder, and melted braze filler. You may be confused because you've only done braze-welding, and when you're doing that, you're just heating the filler enough to adhere to the steel, and not flow by capillary action. You absolutely can braze two flat steel surfaces together if you heat the work and the braze filler enough for it to flow between them by capillary action. I have done this. And that's exactly how an ACR guy brazes copper lines. The fittings are pretty much identical to plumbing fittings, and when you join them by brazing, you heat the fittings up hot enough for the braze filler to flow by capillary action, and it will flow, all the way the the bottom of the fitting, by capillary action, just exactly as solder will flow in to the bottom of the fitting if you're sweating a joint. For brazing copper no flux is required, because if you're using a copper-phosphorus filler rod, the phosphorous acts in place of the flux. Most braze fillers for copper also have silver in addition to the phosphorus (Sil-fos is one brand name you may have heard of) but the silver isn't necessary, I have brazed copper fittings with rods containing only copper and phosphorus.
@@davidrussell9290 Here's a link to a you tube video by LucasMmilhaupt (supplier of
brazing products, including SIL-FOS filler) In it they explain how capillary action is essential for brazing (OK, for whatever reason I can't post a comment with a link to the video. it's titled "Importance of Capillary Action in the Brazing a you tube search for that title should get you to the video) Obviously one of the larger suppliers of brazing products things that brazing involves capillary action. I think you should call them and tell them they're wrong. I think they'd probably laugh at you.
@andrewalexander9492 the fittings are exactly like solder fittings, except they're measured in O.D. and not I.D. I am just going off of the definition I learned in trade school from the United Association, like I clearly stated though, I could be wrong. We always fill from the bottom, not the top. So if I am mistaken, and I very well may be, it is in the "two wetted surfaces" part. I will definitely look into it. I've soldered, brazed, and welded exotic metals since 1998. I know you can braze two flat surfaces together. We used to make saddles out of copper instead of pulling tees on 6" pipe, so I do understand that. When running medical gas we have to have 100% penetration, and that filler metal absolutely does not suck up into all of the fitting. We move and manipulate it with heat. I've cut hundreds of the fittings in half for cert tests. I'll check my definition tomorrow though. Appreciate your input.
No cap?
It doesn't look like brazing it looks more like sil-fos. Brazing rod has Flux on it. The rod he is using doesn't. Plus, the finished joint has no Flux on it.
Uhhh, some brazing rods are flux coated, not all of them. A lot of them are not coated The brazing rods for brazing copper do not need flux as they contain phosphorus, and the phosphorus in the filler metal acts like the flux. SIl-Fos is just a brand name for a SIlver/Copper/Phosphorus brazing rod intended for brazing copper to copper.
Interesting
I don’t understand how it adheres to the base metal without actually melting it.
Capillary action. It adheres to the microscopic pits and valleys of the material while also wicking into the gaps of the joint. Extremely strong, fast and easy to complete
@@mikoval5786 That makes more sense
Umm cooper starts to melt at 1000.
Dont forget the acid
You have a slit on the side I think it’s gonna leak
That looks more like sweating copper with soldering brazing is more like Tig welding with a torch
Huh? Brazing is nothing like tig. It’s like stick welding with a torch…you know….how EVERYONE welded when welding was invented?
Brazing and sweating are pretty much the same except one is at a higher temp, one is at a lower temp. Still dissimilar metals.
brazing is nothing like TIG.
Yeah this guy is sweating copper not brazing look it up he's shows in the video he doesn't know how the proper soldier a copper joint uses way to much heat no flux brazing is a lot like tig welding just using a welding torch not a tig torch that uses electricity heat in one hand filler metal in the other look it up before tell someone they are wrong asss
@@nicholassoviak2386 dude…. That IS brazing. Hes using a brazing rod. Hes using an acetylene torch. You dont need flux when brazing.
Do you even understand what youre talking about?
@@nicholassoviak2386Congratulations, just about everything you said is wrong. This is in fact brazing. As per the AWS, brazing is a joining process with a filler metal with a melting point greater than 850 degrees F. You don't need flux when brazing copper with a filler metal whcih contains phosphorous. For copper joints, the phosphorus acts like flux. This guy is using a silver/copper/phosphorus brazing rod. Pretty much all brazing rods intended for copper pipe are silver/copper/phosphorus.
Yea but the copper is so much weaker after brazing verse soldering..
Tell their to your air conditioner 🤣🤣🤣
Copper will work harden when flexing.
Think you have them mixed up
Ima plumber not a hvac technician...I now when you braze copper it becomes .. annealed.. ( softer ) vs ..soldering. that challenges the integrity of the tubing/fitings.. even more so in cold climates ....also not high pressure ..so ...all I'm saying is it's always been strange to me that the common practice is brazing the lines over soft soldering.
Technically isn't what you just did here considered hard soldering, not brazing.🤷🏻♂️
A little more.practice and you'll be pretty good bud
Silver soldering 😂
Boogers everywhere
Little cut in our side of the pipe
Nope, that’s black marker.
You need a few more lessons.
thats brazy
Could be better!
Shit brazing
A high-tech product was born, a high-temperature flame welder that uses air instead of oxygen acetylene. Looking for partners worldwide!
"air" it's like a composition of gases, I call shens.
Ever heard of a turbo-torch?
@@TheMinecraftACMan Aren’t they garbage for fatter Linesets?
@@EastDallasKicks I think the newer versions are a bit better. One of the problem with turbos is a lot of guys who use 'em don't know there's larger tip sizes for them. I think they cap out at like 2 1/2" lines, versus a standard oxy-ace that can do up to 4" before you get into specialty gear. They still get hot enough to braze, it's just it takes longer to heat up and having the copper hot for longer means you have to put a lot more effort into keeping stuff like valves cool while you work.
Voice sounds very uninterested as if this is forced out of him.
No
Shit braze. Heat should be below the joint and no nitrogen being purged to prevent annealing
You have no idea whether there's nitrogen is being used or not. Regardless, the purpose of the nitrogen is not to prevent annealing. It's to prevent oxidation of the copper on the inside of the pipe, whcih causes a black oxide scale which can later flake off and damage refrigeration equipment.
@andrewalexander9492 "Nitrogen is used in annealing to create a protective atmosphere that suppresses oxidation and decarburization, which may degrade the material’s surface". Yeah if you aren't quenching your copper after your braze it you are creating a weak joint or a weak piece of copper, purging nitrogen prevents annealing AND CARBON. Go back to school pole socket.
@@SuperHeat420 "Nitrogen is used in annealing to create a protective atmosphere that suppresses oxidation and decarburization, which may degrade the material’s surface". I don't know where you cut-n-pasted that from, but I guarantee you that its is from somewhere they're talking about steel. "Decarbuization" is referring to the loss of carbon from steel. Carbon is one of the things that makes steel, steel, and not iron. On the other hand, copper pipe doesn't have any significant carbon. Copper pipe os 99.9% pure copper. so "decarburizatrion" isn't even part of the conversation when you're talking about copper pipe Also, you don't quench copper to keep it from being annealed. You're mixing up heat treating process for steel, Copper, unlike steel is quenched during annealing. You heat it cherry red, then you quench it. (google annealing copper if you don't believe it) Yes I've done it, yes it works. Yes, it's the opposite of steel whcih need to be cooled slowly to anneal. So, congratulations, virtually everything you've posted is wrong here. That's quite an accomplishment. LOL
@andrewalexander9492 i never said it was only used to prevent annealing in copper. It is also used to prevent annealing in steal, or in fact almost all metals when being heated. I am not mixing up any metals. I am speaking specifically about brazing copper. You do not heat copper cherry red and then quench it when brazing. Holy cow you shouldn't be around a torch. I dont need to google anything. I stand by my original point. Heat was applied in the wrong area, no nitrogen during purge(you can tell when the flame hit the joint, 1-3 psi of nitrogen will make it dance a little, 20 years welding copper will tell ya) its a shit braze. Sorry honey.
@@SuperHeat420 I didn't *say* that you heat copper cherry red then quench it when brazing.learn to read I said you do it when you're annealing it. and that's exactly correct, that's how you anneal copper, so when you said you have to quench it to *prevent* annealing (like you do steel) you're talking out of your ass. And if you think that you quench copper to prevent annealing, you absolutely are mixing up metals, because you do that for steel, but you o not for copper. And the fact that you're quoting stuff whcih talks about "decarburizing" and thinking it applies to copper tells us you don't know shit about metallurgy. That's a fact, copper pipe has pretty much zero carbon, so "decarburizing" it is physically impossible. Look at this point it's pretty clear that you're pine of those blowhards that can never admit to being wrong, so waste of my time to continue responding, b ut if anyone is reading and is wondering who is correct here. google is your freind there are plenty of references which will tell you that quenching is a part of the process of annealing copper, not something you do to prevent annealing it, and plenty of references whcih will tell you that the reason copper lines are purged with nitrogen it to prevent oxidation on the inside of the pint (has nothing to do with annealing or not annealing)
Wrong
Bs
Mujhe job milega brazing ka
Discuss why silver solder joints are more difficult and messy looking than ordinary solder joints.
..... Or don't do a video in the first place.
You want to be careful soddering is illegal in some states 😂
That’s not solder 🤡
Mmmmm🤤🤤🤤making that copper a little more expensive to the scrap man for me I see
How did you make that joint ?
Rolling papers lulz. Its a tool that makes it. Saw it another video
you can drill out a small hole, heat it and then widen it with metal sticks we call metal pins, idk the official name...
There’s a big crack, right by the T must be junk just for learning purposes
Staybrite 8 , stronger
You're supposed to anneal the area that you're drilling into first. You definitely didn't. My apprentice did this before
Nope, not for this kit/tool.
@@mechanical-hub Gotcha! The ones I've used aggressively pull the drilled area up more than yours did which would be easier after being annealed
I thought the same thing when I first saw the extrusion hub. Might be in the description that I never read but can you let us know what extrusion tool you used. It's been 20 years since I have extruded copper im sure the tech has got a lot better.
@@LearnPlumbing Drilling into a non annealed hard drawn copper tube makes a rougher hole and it takes longer. The specifications that most plumbers don't bother to read states that you're to anneal the tubing prior to tee-drilling it. Yootoob is full of "plumbers" who don't know their trade or code mostly. Good plumbers don't have the time to post stuff online nor have the desire to.
@daddy1571 Well I'm a very Good Plumber and I post video to hand that hard earned expertise down to those who are interested. RUclips is a great platform to learn Plumbing or anything really. Also a great platform for critics to watch videos amd leave comments as of they know something but most the time really don't. 😉