Great content! Got a carver triton after watching your video, was teaching SUP and found a great skate wave park. You got me over the edge to train my SUP Surf with a Surftrainer! Thank you
I took some Paris longboard trucks and put them on a old school shaped pool board .Also put risers for clearance on my soft wheels.It will give you more realistic rides than those weird swivel trucks will.Also I like to find a long concrete shoulder and even better if it’s slanted down to give you speed to bottom turn go up your concrete shoulder and smack it to finish in a tail slide but you must pull out that slide mid wave so you still can generate speed for your next turn.
In my opinion a normal skateboard truck is better, as you can ride the bowl with more speed power and flow, exactly like surfing. Knowing how to pump up and down the bowl at the right time and spot is what gives you tremendous speed. Not a spring in a truck, there is no spring in a surfboard, it’s the wave.
I am 67 and have a couple carver skateboards that I use when the surf isn't happening.Riding these boards have improved dramatically my front foot surfing to generate speed when going backside on a wave to make a section , get back in the pocket or get in position for a barrel
Can’t rate this enough. I got a Carver (with C7) Da Monsta 7 years ago and have slowly allowed it to help me develop my surfing. When Clayton talked about the bike analogy, I’d say that it perfectly describes my experience. Learning to push through a turn without it sliding out or losing speed has been invaluable (and slow!). Cheers Clayton 🤙
@@Charlot1914 yes the smoothstar is more versatile i use it in bowls /pumptracks/flatbanks etc .you just need a much higher skill level . smoothstar is more pro level board.
can anyone help me out? I want to bowl ride and work on my surf skills.. I'm an "advanced beginner" i would say... been surfing for like 2 years.. and I can ride comfortably on a longboard skateboard. I ride a 7 foot/6 foot board in the water. should i get the carver cx or look for a smoothstar? I've never surfskated before i don't want to miss out on learning surf tricks, i definitely value FLOW and speed and ripping... i don't want to be too rigid. but i also understand that smoothstar is a "shortboard" feel... will this be too advanced, or will it rather help my learning?
That was not only the best , but also the most diplomatic clip I have ever watched on surf skate. Well done , personally I would have found it hard to resist saying things a bit more brutally when it comes to the smoothstar. Love your work Clay .
If you think you wiggle wiggle to ride a smooth Star then you have no idea how to ride them. Smooth Stars are all about compression and extension. Scooping forward with the back arm and driving off the back foot for a bottom turn and extending and twisting for a top turn. No wiggling involved
For me cx is realy a good choice! I never read something about changing the bushings! You can put in some realy soft bushings for that wiggely feel and short radius or some hard pushings for a very stabile board with a longer radius and then you can fine adjust the feel on the kingpinnut! Thats great for different types of training and skating!
The trick with the smoothstar is to practice that nice flow, compression and extension without feeling the need to wobble like crazy. The wobbling you really only need to do if you want to gain speed from stand still. If you push to get to speed, no need to wobble at all. Haha that angry termite style I have only ever seen groms do. And yes, doesn't look great.
I started with a Carver Greenroom traveling my camper and then got a SS 77 for using at my mom's when I fly in. Love the Carver for the street more than the 77. But I found the 77 pulled me deeper into my turns and encouraged more compression and allowed me to really generate good turns without much slope on smooth concrete. In addition, the SS has taught me to use the Carver better. When it came time to get a third board (my life is spread out) I went for another SS but it was not a clear decision. I'm not a good surfer and don't understand 5% of what Clayton sees. He has a clear goal - surf training. But if having fun on flats is ALSO part of it, then the SS is a great choice. And while the Carver may be more suited (especially CX) for the bowls the SS works just fine. I really do enjoy surf skating so it's not just training. It's how I loosen up and get some flow and exercise when away from the water. Best advice after owning both? Start with Carver but eventually get both.
@ShelleLoves2SurfSkate I think owning a Carver CX and a SS Thruster could be all you'll ever want. The Carver C7 will fall in-between but more like the CX. I have not ridden the CX trucks but have felt them and think that it's a better to widen your "quiver". The Smooth Star will give you the other top brand/system that's different enough to have a real choice in which you take out. And like I said, the SS very well might help you find more surf training feel with your CX trucks when appropriate.
By far the most important info ever on surfskates here. I have a Carver and chose the CX truck for this reason. Not to mention I’m skating miles and that’s impossible on any other.
Hello! This is really a very sensitive issue, I share on the one hand what they say that we can get into bad habits with surfskates. I think one of the first questions is, why do you really want a surfskate? If you are a surfer you know that you can use a surfskate to stay active on those days when there are no waves, on the other hand if you are not a surfer but surfskate catches your attention then you can choose a brand that makes you feel the sensation of surfing. In my case I surf and have tried Carver, Yow, Smoothstar and Swelltech. In my opinion Smoothstar and Swelltech have more of that sensation of surfing, I try to combine exercises with the cones and with the Bowl. And I always carry in my mind what the lines of surfing are since asphalt or concrete is not the same as being in a wave. You cannot make a turn with a surfboard as radical as you can with a surfskate so you must be clear about what you want to do when you buy a surfskate. Good video
It’s a good brand, less stable then Carver and a bit more stable then Smoothstar. I can recommend the brand. Take a board with higher concave such as the YOW Snappers or Arica. Cheers
Great video! I do a lot of surfskating just for the fun of skating in itself but after a few years going back and forth ( between CX, C7 and a smootstar) I absolutely agree on the sentiment that it is mostly how you use the tool, not the tool itself :) Always imaging being on a wave! That said, I find the feel of wide stance CX setups is best for me. In some bowls I even think that a regular pool skateboard with harder wheels might be even better except they usually have too narrow wheelbase. Have you tried using regular (old school 80:s 15" WB + 56-60 mm wheels) for surf training and in that case, what's your take?
When I'm forehand surfing all I can do is enjoy the ride and trim Abit n pump Abit, backhand how ever I can get pretty vertical and do snaps, but struggle to pump lol I want to learn to snap n go vertical on my forehand
Hi guys- really good discussion and technical reviews are outstanding. I also use what used to be called a snake board ( nowadays called a streetboard which has the 2 wide platforms and that both pivot and used to practice this on steep driveways and roads and found my hands/ arms were so critical in balance and smooth turns - not sure if you have every used these snake board. btw could you do vid on construction of your new skate training bowl? thanks for the great vids
It sounds like you don't even need a surf skate because it sounds like a simple cruiser in a bowl will help you? The whole technology to the surf skate I thought was the wiggling to simulate building up speed in a wave so if that's not accurate and you just need to compress/decompress then why wouldn't any board be more accurate to a wave? Help me decide if I should sell my swelltech and buy a cruiser lol. I can loosen up the trucks or put in soft bushings on a cruiser and then also have a get around town board.
Fair point, i also thought the same thing. The "wiggle" if put it right together with the compress/decompress are suppose to help you with the build up speed technique which can be crucial on a wave. If you wanna sell your swelltech, sell it to me. 😅
When I come and skate that ramp don't push me so far that I won't be able to surf for a week because of leg burn!! we're only going to have a week there and I'm not going to be so tied i can't surf.
I have a smoothstar 77 toledo model but definitely use it like a carver with long drawn out turns rather than anything fast or snappy and no wiggle. I do love the board but it sounds like I should have bought a carver as I only want it to improve surfing. Dayum!
You can improve your surfing technique on any surfskate tbh. I have Yow, Carver CX and Slide and all can improve your surfing. Stick with what you have and improve your compression and extension. Tbh with you, i use my Yow more than the rest for surf training.
what about the lengh os the board? wouldnt a longer board like the smoothstar 77 toledo 34" be less wiggely and more flowly than a shorter skate? If so, isnt it just a matter of getting the right board lengh for you and than a smoothstar could be q better choice over the carver?
Fully agree that its the way you use the tool... always imagine you are surfing....CX trucks are alot more forgiving and closely resemble a normal skateboard truck but with a reverse kingpin....with C7 and smoothstar you can dig the rail and jack knife if you over do a turn so to me the C7 and smoothstar have more that surfy feel but the internet has a strict divide on this matter....can you tell I went with smoothstar..)
I have jack knifed with my carver Cx trucks street skating with softer bushings. Not good getting slammed at 57 hrs old is not good. I have a longboard too but I’m so paranoid when I’m riding any surf skate on the streets or anywhere there’s debris rocks, potential uneven surfaces with lips or edges and things like that and getting hung up instead of rolling over these smoothly. that’s the dilemma with surf skate, so find a course. Any smooth, skate park or pump track or any smooth surfaces that are clean that’s no problem. I’m also finding I could jackknife or get slammed. If I have too much weight going forward or don’t have enough momentum or inertia at a slower speed, and then you get slammed on some thing I don’t know if I would change to another surf skate. I might have the same problem.
Hi there, I have a z flex longboard and just wondered if that could just do the job? Okay you can’t do hard turns on it but can be nice and flowing etc! Thanks
You can wiggle with any surfskate. It's definitely not the setup. Of course CX is faster, more forgiving, can ride fakie and is better for liptricks and street tricks. Still the Smoothstar Thruster offers much better flow plus it can do much tighter turns. I think CX is better for park skating and Smoothstar for mellow banks and slopes. Cheers
@@SunriseSessions He said CX for parks. That's the less articulated of the two Carver trucks. Their C7 is more articulated. While there are differing opinions overall, almost everybody agrees that the Carver CX (and copies) is most manageable Surf skate for bowls.
I don't use my surfskate as surf training but this video still gave me some excellent ideas to integrate into my riding. Especially the bit on focusing on compression and efficient use of body movement. Thank you.
I just bought a toledo #77 pro and it's amazing. I've been skating carver C7 and cx for over 15 years on various decks, smoothstar work almost the same as C7. Wot I discovered is ur boards concave complements the surf skates alot, I'm carving, kissing coping and grinding harder than ever in the bowl, it's has nothing to with which are better they all work on the same principle and tweaks u make to board and techique
@@sabrisamsodien1220 I would think tensioning the spring would improve the SmoothStars performance in a park. Unfortunately we don't have any useful skate parks in my area.
I'm in my 30th, in a quest to learn surfing. There's no ocean nearby so, I'm learning surfskate to hopefully easily surf when I'll be able to, and your videos are absolutely awesome. I feel like I understand the mindset, so thank you! Cheers from France.
Basically he is saying compress & extend like bowl skating on tkp board not a side to side like a surfskate rkp. So a surfskate video telling you not to surfskate.
Although I do get the opinions on the carver VS smoothstar, i.e. Having slower and therefor smoother turning lines.. I don't think it's only related to board. Rather its about how you are taught/ learn techniques on the board. Both can do the exact same thing, good or bad.
@@ombesurf hmm I do have to come back on that, indeed from an engineering perspective the boards aren't the same. But that's besides the point. The learning proces is rarely limited by the the tools, although many people think it is. Especially when those tools are, yes different, but essentially in the same ballpark.
I made me a schlongboard - pump fast because I pivot hard my hips round the fronttruck. The turns are somtimes to big to slalom the grandmas. As I am in the age of grandpas I will by a new bord with a springtruck to avoid, finding me in the hospital with the widow.
This so far is the best vid ive watched in my search to make up my mind on what to buy, ive been looking for a while now and although i surf (not as often as i'd like to) i didnt know which would be the most applicable to my surfing, initialy i wanted a surf skate just to cruise around but now i'm realising why not get something that will naturaly benefit my surfing when i cant get in the water as often, i like your approach and your explination to help get accross the dynamics of how each board moves, thankyou 👍
Carver CX trucks are best for a beginner. They can be adjusted to be tighter if need be to make it more stable (just don't over tighten the truck and then too stiff to turn!)
Video super helpful and makes sense. You really do need to have that tactile sensation to move when the wave wants you to, not when you want to move up or down the wave.
No surf skate, I prefer to learn surfing by surfing and I don’t fancy being forced out of the water for months because I got injured trying simulate surfing on land.
@@hepteropterix This hasn't been my experience really at all. I've had the amazingly good fortune to become part of a tight knit local surf crew in a small coastal community in the Pacific Northwest. The members of this crew are pretty diverse in terms of skill set, age and level of experience, with most of us being late adult beginners, mixed in with a few local guru types who have been surfing for decades and are very solid at what they do. Within this environment in the last few years, I've been able to go from zero, to a solidly competent lower intermediate surfer; surfing head to overhead set waves at a fairly unforgiving beach break. I can do front side/back side bottom turns/cutbacks and have also developed relatively good bodysurfing/ocean IQ skills as well. I don't say this as a flex and I realize how fortunate I am to essentially be living in a full time surf camp (and I have a LOT of work to do in order to get better). However I say this because I've been able to achieve all that I have so far simply by surfing/bodysurfing on a regular basis (usually 3+ times a week depending on conditions etc). Some of the other late learners in my crew are actually very good skaters and really none of what they know has translated in any meaningful way. The hard truth about surfing that no one wants to admit (especially those on youtube trying to sell you things) is that in order to actually learn and progress at it, you have to be in a position to do it regularly. I realize that few people are in a position to actually persue surfing in that capacity, and as a result all manner of "surf training" products/programs have popped up with the promise of surf progression outside of the surf. I'm not saying that land based training, or even skating are a total waste of time, but the fact of the matter is that surf skating in particular has been massively overhyped in terms of its impact on progression. You can be the best surf skater in the world but if you don't get out in the water multiple times a week at a minimum it's not going to have any meaningful impact on progression at all. Most of the people hyping up surf skating on youtube have either been doing it along with surfing for the better part of their lives, or were already very competent surfers before they started skating (or vice versa), or are trying to sell you something, or all of the above. The whole premise is kind of ridiculous honestly, if you don't have regular access surf, then the last thing you should be concerned with is trying learn how to do turns. Chances are you should be focusing on the very basics like developing fitness and ocean IQ through activities such as swimming, bodysurfing and riding a skill/conditions appropriate board with the goal of perfecting trim both front/backside.
Great video! Have subscribed. On that note, would a regular longboard-style skateboard be better than a smoothstar for this style of training? Couldn't really see much difference in the trucks on a carver from videos (height?) than a longboard I already own but haven't seen one in the flesh yet.
Nope, smoothstar 100% better than a normal longboard in my experience. Started surfing about 25 years ago and skating about 35 years. Even on the flat I find the smoothstar to beneficial for my surfing but and the its a but that the guys mentioned in the video, the ease of picking up bad habits can be very easy. I think as long as you are surfing more than on the skateboard practicing surf stuff you'll learn what feels right on the skater. I think that goes for any system of surfskate too. Even with that much experience on a skate board the smoothstar felt absolutely foreign. Haven't been on a craver but I used to skate the local bowl heaps on a londboard. So long story short is longboard is better than a normal skateboard and surfskate is better than I longboard and surfing every day is better than all three combined. Last one is wishful thinking most of the time. 😂
AFAIK c7 is more surf oriented (super turny) CX is more or less like a very turny normal skateboard truck.( less turny than c7) so C7 if you're looking into the surf feel and/or challenge CX if you're more of a cruiser/ commute wth board
Well, I have never surfed before but Carver kept me wiggle. As I started to use waterborne adapter with 180 mm track in the back and 110 in front, I really learned the compression and decompression effect. But that happened on streets, so I cannot compare. Still, there are different opinions from other surfers who recommend swelltech, waterborne, smoothstar and even yow.
What a load of bollocks. You can build bad habits (wiggling) just as easily on a Carver CX as any other surfskate and you can hold a drawn out turn on a surf adapter style truck (like the Smoothstar) just as easily also. The main difference is that Smoothstar type trucks require more torsion (as well as compression and weight distribution) than the CX, which in many people's view makes them feel more akin to real surfing. You can also build good habits skating on the street, if anything it'll teach you to hold your speed much better. That's not to say that skating a bowl isn't good too, but to say that street skaters tend to wiggle is as stupid as saying bowl riders can't execute a powerful top turn. Clayton has clearly arrived at his conclusions prematurely and is just dredging up half-baked evidence to support them.
Exactly. Very biased video towards the "made in usa" carver.. In 2015, while skating some road near the beach In Busan I met Greg Falk. I had a Carver and Smoothstar with me, he totally dismissed the Smoothstar as "a piece of sh#t made in China dude", mind you they were made in Taiwan back then. At that time, Smoothstars were banned from being sold in the US. I'm glad to see that changed, and that there are so many options now on the market.
@@hepteropterix Triggered? What are you? Like, 10 years old? Give your balls a tug. When they finally drop maybe you'll realize that I was addressing specific things that were actually said in the video. Maybe you should watch it again? As for my own purchases, I own multiple boards with both styles (including the CX, C7 and Smoothstar), so I'm not criticizing them to feel better, I'm criticizing them because I know from experience that they're talking bollocks.
I have a Smoothstar MantaRay; I do ride it on the flat mostly. I think if you make sure to compress and extend to create speed, through long carves, (check Kale Brock's videos), rather than wigglewoggle using your front foot mainly, you'll get a lot more of of the surf-experience out of flat riding. In the bowl, the board's loose front truck gives me so much freedom, I feel confident hitting most angles and taking any lines I want. Totally agree with Clayton though; moving from flat to the bowl wall is critical to get the actual feel of surfing. I can throw a big tail slide on the flat...but I am miles away from YewLayton levels on the walls!
I have found my Smoothstar is terrible for practicing paddling.
Hahaha
I’m on the same boat here trying to figure out between a carver or smooth star. I think it should help us for footwork and twisting
I want a smoothstar for commuting
🤣🤣🤣
How many liters ya riding bro? Maybe take the trucks off and it might float better. 😂
Best surfskate in my humble opinion is my swelltech, nothing even comes close to the smothness and perfection!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉😊
Great content! Got a carver triton after watching your video, was teaching SUP and found a great skate wave park. You got me over the edge to train my SUP Surf with a Surftrainer! Thank you
Glad to hear man!
I took some Paris longboard trucks and put them on a old school shaped pool board .Also put risers for clearance on my soft wheels.It will give you more realistic rides than those weird swivel trucks will.Also I like to find a long concrete shoulder and even better if it’s slanted down to give you speed to bottom turn go up your concrete shoulder and smack it to finish in a tail slide but you must pull out that slide mid wave so you still can generate speed for your next turn.
In my opinion a normal skateboard truck is better, as you can ride the bowl with more speed power and flow, exactly like surfing. Knowing how to pump up and down the bowl at the right time and spot is what gives you tremendous speed. Not a spring in a truck, there is no spring in a surfboard, it’s the wave.
Where can I see more footage of that insane bowl?
It's all over our content!
@@ombesurf looks like an amazing training tool for students, but could I get a link where someone is ripping the vertical?
I like that: "surfing is about riding with wave, it's not about riding with the board."
I am 67 and have a couple carver skateboards that I use when the surf isn't happening.Riding these boards have improved dramatically my front foot surfing to generate speed when going backside on a wave to make a section , get back in the pocket or get in position for a barrel
“It’s in the hands of the user. What you train is what you get.” Great advice. 👍
Can’t rate this enough. I got a Carver (with C7) Da Monsta 7 years ago and have slowly allowed it to help me develop my surfing. When Clayton talked about the bike analogy, I’d say that it perfectly describes my experience. Learning to push through a turn without it sliding out or losing speed has been invaluable (and slow!). Cheers Clayton 🤙
Thanks!
Shared the same feeling of needing the bowl. Always felt weird on the flat to try the surfing stuff. Still loads of fun and groove on the flats
I was gonna buy the smoothstar. And now I'm in doubt...again!
In my personal opinion I have ridden both and I much prefer the smoothstar
@@jackhasslacher62 Nice. I did bought the smoothstar in the end.
@@Charlot1914 yes the smoothstar is more versatile i use it in bowls /pumptracks/flatbanks etc .you just need a much higher skill level . smoothstar is more pro level board.
@@helenchesterton490 I agree, I have been riding mine and I feel I made the right decision. I feel it helped me in my surfing already.
can anyone help me out? I want to bowl ride and work on my surf skills.. I'm an "advanced beginner" i would say... been surfing for like 2 years.. and I can ride comfortably on a longboard skateboard. I ride a 7 foot/6 foot board in the water.
should i get the carver cx or look for a smoothstar? I've never surfskated before
i don't want to miss out on learning surf tricks, i definitely value FLOW and speed and ripping... i don't want to be too rigid. but i also understand that smoothstar is a "shortboard" feel... will this be too advanced, or will it rather help my learning?
That was not only the best , but also the most diplomatic clip I have ever watched on surf skate. Well done , personally I would have found it hard to resist saying things a bit more brutally when it comes to the smoothstar. Love your work Clay .
Cheers legend!!
If you think you wiggle wiggle to ride a smooth Star then you have no idea how to ride them. Smooth Stars are all about compression and extension. Scooping forward with the back arm and driving off the back foot for a bottom turn and extending and twisting for a top turn. No wiggling involved
That was so good ! Thanks for sharing !
Glad you enjoyed it!
For me cx is realy a good choice! I never read something about changing the bushings! You can put in some realy soft bushings for that wiggely feel and short radius or some hard pushings for a very stabile board with a longer radius and then you can fine adjust the feel on the kingpinnut! Thats great for different types of training and skating!
Good to know!
The trick with the smoothstar is to practice that nice flow, compression and extension without feeling the need to wobble like crazy. The wobbling you really only need to do if you want to gain speed from stand still. If you push to get to speed, no need to wobble at all.
Haha that angry termite style I have only ever seen groms do. And yes, doesn't look great.
I really want the design for that bowl so I can put one in my backyard.
You guys are literally pioneering a whole surfing curriculum can't wait to see a harness and anchor point above that bowl for aerial training
Its on our radar!
I started with a Carver Greenroom traveling my camper and then got a SS 77 for using at my mom's when I fly in. Love the Carver for the street more than the 77. But I found the 77 pulled me deeper into my turns and encouraged more compression and allowed me to really generate good turns without much slope on smooth concrete. In addition, the SS has taught me to use the Carver better. When it came time to get a third board (my life is spread out) I went for another SS but it was not a clear decision.
I'm not a good surfer and don't understand 5% of what Clayton sees. He has a clear goal - surf training. But if having fun on flats is ALSO part of it, then the SS is a great choice. And while the Carver may be more suited (especially CX) for the bowls the SS works just fine. I really do enjoy surf skating so it's not just training. It's how I loosen up and get some flow and exercise when away from the water.
Best advice after owning both? Start with Carver but eventually get both.
@ShelleLoves2SurfSkate I think owning a Carver CX and a SS Thruster could be all you'll ever want. The Carver C7 will fall in-between but more like the CX. I have not ridden the CX trucks but have felt them and think that it's a better to widen your "quiver". The Smooth Star will give you the other top brand/system that's different enough to have a real choice in which you take out. And like I said, the SS very well might help you find more surf training feel with your CX trucks when appropriate.
First I bought a smoothstar 77 then I saw your video
"How dare you " is my first reaction
Now I have 3 carver cx and sold my smoothstar
By far the most important info ever on surfskates here.
I have a Carver and chose the CX truck for this reason. Not to mention I’m skating miles and that’s impossible on any other.
My smoothstar also skates miles
The smothstart can do the job/turns for you, and the Carver CX forces YOU to make the turn.
No. The Smoothstar forces you to use torsion, compression and foot-steering to turn, the Carver CX only requires compression and foot-steering.
No torsion = bad technic
Hello! This is really a very sensitive issue, I share on the one hand what they say that we can get into bad habits with surfskates. I think one of the first questions is, why do you really want a surfskate? If you are a surfer you know that you can use a surfskate to stay active on those days when there are no waves, on the other hand if you are not a surfer but surfskate catches your attention then you can choose a brand that makes you feel the sensation of surfing. In my case I surf and have tried Carver, Yow, Smoothstar and Swelltech. In my opinion Smoothstar and Swelltech have more of that sensation of surfing, I try to combine exercises with the cones and with the Bowl. And I always carry in my mind what the lines of surfing are since asphalt or concrete is not the same as being in a wave. You cannot make a turn with a surfboard as radical as you can with a surfskate so you must be clear about what you want to do when you buy a surfskate. Good video
Thank you for the video! Do you guys have an opinion on Yow surf skate?
Try before you buy.
@@ombesurf one can TOTALLY read into this, and yet we need more details !! hahaha
It’s a good brand, less stable then Carver and a bit more stable then Smoothstar. I can recommend the brand. Take a board with higher concave such as the YOW Snappers or Arica. Cheers
swelltech?
You guys care to share the design for your ramp? Down in the Caribbean surf skates could come in handy and helpful but we don’t have ramps to use
Great video! I do a lot of surfskating just for the fun of skating in itself but after a few years going back and forth ( between CX, C7 and a smootstar) I absolutely agree on the sentiment that it is mostly how you use the tool, not the tool itself :) Always imaging being on a wave! That said, I find the feel of wide stance CX setups is best for me. In some bowls I even think that a regular pool skateboard with harder wheels might be even better except they usually have too narrow wheelbase. Have you tried using regular (old school 80:s 15" WB + 56-60 mm wheels) for surf training and in that case, what's your take?
We have used Carvers from the very beginning and they go beyond our expectations. We say, if it is not broken don't fix it.
@@ombesurf which carver do you recommend, C7, CX, or C5?
@@ombesurf and size? I'm 5'11, 76kg
@@Frank-xd4zs cx
Agreed
The footage at 7:28 is amazing. How was that recorded? Some sort of butt mounted 360 cam? Looks sweet!
What about YOW? Or Swelltech... I got one since a few month, it's Amazing....
Killer video guys!! Awesome content!! I really really love it 🙌🏼
Thanks Chris!!! Safe travels!
Great arguments here, best comparison of both systems so far.
Definitely learned some important lessons from Clay. Thank you, coach!
When I'm forehand surfing all I can do is enjoy the ride and trim Abit n pump Abit, backhand how ever I can get pretty vertical and do snaps, but struggle to pump lol I want to learn to snap n go vertical on my forehand
Hi guys- really good discussion and technical reviews are outstanding. I also use what used to be called a snake board ( nowadays called a streetboard which has the 2 wide platforms and that both pivot and used to practice this on steep driveways and roads and found my hands/ arms were so critical in balance and smooth turns - not sure if you have every used these snake board. btw could you do vid on construction of your new skate training bowl? thanks for the great vids
Thanks you so much for your appreciation Rich! Would you be able to suggest you idea here? -> ombe.co/roadmap
Which Carver trucks does Clayton use?
Cx Trucks
I dont understand why they used Carvers 'hybrid' surf skate truck instead of the C7s here.
@@MichaelZimmerer same reason why they don't use Smoothstar
@@MichaelZimmerer С7 is worse surfskate truck imho
I was looking for this answer thank you
Can't we tighten the front trucks on a smoothstar to replicate the carver feel???...
Give it a go, We are interested in your feedback!
This was incredibly helpful on multiple levels guys. Thank you!
Our pleasure!
Carvers over Smoothstar any day
“angry termite” 😂
🤣🤣🤣
So spot-on!
I love my surf skates but I don't wanna get wet.
It sounds like you don't even need a surf skate because it sounds like a simple cruiser in a bowl will help you? The whole technology to the surf skate I thought was the wiggling to simulate building up speed in a wave so if that's not accurate and you just need to compress/decompress then why wouldn't any board be more accurate to a wave? Help me decide if I should sell my swelltech and buy a cruiser lol. I can loosen up the trucks or put in soft bushings on a cruiser and then also have a get around town board.
Fair point, i also thought the same thing. The "wiggle" if put it right together with the compress/decompress are suppose to help you with the build up speed technique which can be crucial on a wave. If you wanna sell your swelltech, sell it to me. 😅
Carver it is... I am a total beginner and I am wondering for my 174cm and 72kg what would be the best size? Thanks in advance
The firefly
Awesome content! Thank you guys :)
Im european (better access to yow) so I was just wondering if you’d also go for a carver with cx trucks over a yow?
Definitely don't get a Yow with a Meraki truck. You can't tighten it. I found it useless for riding a bowl/ramp.
When I come and skate that ramp don't push me so far that I won't be able to surf for a week because of leg burn!! we're only going to have a week there and I'm not going to be so tied i can't surf.
Deal
I have a smoothstar 77 toledo model but definitely use it like a carver with long drawn out turns rather than anything fast or snappy and no wiggle. I do love the board but it sounds like I should have bought a carver as I only want it to improve surfing. Dayum!
You can improve your surfing technique on any surfskate tbh. I have Yow, Carver CX and Slide and all can improve your surfing. Stick with what you have and improve your compression and extension.
Tbh with you, i use my Yow more than the rest for surf training.
what about the lengh os the board? wouldnt a longer board like the smoothstar 77 toledo 34" be less wiggely and more flowly than a shorter skate? If so, isnt it just a matter of getting the right board lengh for you and than a smoothstar could be q better choice over the carver?
Trucks are a huge part of the experience. Length and width are next.
Thxxxxxxxx a "milliooooooon"!!!!!!!!!!!+++:))))))
Fully agree that its the way you use the tool... always imagine you are surfing....CX trucks are alot more forgiving and closely resemble a normal skateboard truck but with a reverse kingpin....with C7 and smoothstar you can dig the rail and jack knife if you over do a turn so to me the C7 and smoothstar have more that surfy feel but the internet has a strict divide on this matter....can you tell I went with smoothstar..)
Personal choices are entirely up to the individual. We are sure you love your smoothstar.
I have jack knifed with my carver Cx trucks street skating with softer bushings. Not good getting slammed at 57 hrs old is not good. I have a longboard too but I’m so paranoid when I’m riding any surf skate on the streets or anywhere there’s debris rocks, potential uneven surfaces with lips or edges and things like that and getting hung up instead of rolling over these smoothly. that’s the dilemma with surf skate, so find a course. Any smooth, skate park or pump track or any smooth surfaces that are clean that’s no problem. I’m also finding I could jackknife or get slammed. If I have too much weight going forward or don’t have enough momentum or inertia at a slower speed, and then you get slammed on some thing I don’t know if I would change to another surf skate. I might have the same problem.
@@shirtlessGraveler305 Man..I go full padding when i,m on the smoothstar..wrist guards knee and elbow pads and padded shorts..)
Hi there, I have a z flex longboard and just wondered if that could just do the job? Okay you can’t do hard turns on it but can be nice and flowing etc! Thanks
We used a carver Tyler 777 longboard model and it went well. So give it a go?
Coooool yeeeeeeeaaaahhh!!!!
You can wiggle with any surfskate. It's definitely not the setup. Of course CX is faster, more forgiving, can ride fakie and is better for liptricks and street tricks. Still the Smoothstar Thruster offers much better flow plus it can do much tighter turns. I think CX is better for park skating and Smoothstar for mellow banks and slopes. Cheers
Totally agree.
@double overhead, which one do you prefer in bowls and poollike skateparks?
@@SunriseSessions I definitely prefer loose systems for parks. Will setup a build with a V-truck soon & and see how it goes.
Agreed. Good rundown.
@@SunriseSessions He said CX for parks. That's the less articulated of the two Carver trucks. Their C7 is more articulated. While there are differing opinions overall, almost everybody agrees that the Carver CX (and copies) is most manageable Surf skate for bowls.
Biiig Fan of your videos/insta really cool bowl :))
Thanks!
I don't use my surfskate as surf training but this video still gave me some excellent ideas to integrate into my riding. Especially the bit on focusing on compression and efficient use of body movement. Thank you.
Which Carver board would you recommend?
Carver with C7 trucks. I have Kai Lenny lava model and it’s so much fun to ride
Soooooo heeeeeelpfuuuul!!!!!
More serious comment: Smoothstar's front truck has a tension screw which can stiffen the rotation. Have you tried this?
I just bought a toledo #77 pro and it's amazing. I've been skating carver C7 and cx for over 15 years on various decks, smoothstar work almost the same as C7.
Wot I discovered is ur boards concave complements the surf skates alot, I'm carving, kissing coping and grinding harder than ever in the bowl, it's has nothing to with which are better they all work on the same principle and tweaks u make to board and techique
@@sabrisamsodien1220 I would think tensioning the spring would improve the SmoothStars performance in a park. Unfortunately we don't have any useful skate parks in my area.
I'm in my 30th, in a quest to learn surfing. There's no ocean nearby so, I'm learning surfskate to hopefully easily surf when I'll be able to, and your videos are absolutely awesome. I feel like I understand the mindset, so thank you! Cheers from France.
Basically he is saying compress & extend like bowl skating on tkp board not a side to side like a surfskate rkp. So a surfskate video telling you not to surfskate.
Great tips.... Did you try SwellTech surf skates ?
Although I do get the opinions on the carver VS smoothstar, i.e. Having slower and therefor smoother turning lines.. I don't think it's only related to board. Rather its about how you are taught/ learn techniques on the board. Both can do the exact same thing, good or bad.
We agree that it's not only related to boards and we disagree that both boards can do exactly the same thing.
@@ombesurf hmm I do have to come back on that, indeed from an engineering perspective the boards aren't the same. But that's besides the point. The learning proces is rarely limited by the the tools, although many people think it is. Especially when those tools are, yes different, but essentially in the same ballpark.
I made me a schlongboard - pump fast because I pivot hard my hips round the fronttruck. The turns are somtimes to big to slalom the grandmas.
As I am in the age of grandpas I will by a new bord with a springtruck to avoid, finding me in the hospital with the widow.
Another great video guys. I’m rapidly becoming more of a frothing grom than my 15yo son ;)
This so far is the best vid ive watched in my search to make up my mind on what to buy, ive been looking for a while now and although i surf (not as often as i'd like to) i didnt know which would be the most applicable to my surfing, initialy i wanted a surf skate just to cruise around but now i'm realising why not get something that will naturaly benefit my surfing when i cant get in the water as often, i like your approach and your explination to help get accross the dynamics of how each board moves, thankyou 👍
Angry termite lol
Yes enjoying the carver alot, goes well on pump tracks
Hi. I am interested in building surfskate training track similar to you. I am wondering if i could get some guidance from you guys?
Would you recommend c7 or cx for training turns?
I can’t really afford a surf skate at the moment, can I just use my regular skate board at a skate park?
Boom was thinking Carver…bowl next door happy daaaaaaaayz
sorry , wrong video , nice cutback by the way.
where can I find the video of the dude surfing with the camera fixed to his back?
Confirmed that my carver c7 decision was the right one!
Have you legends had much to do with the waterbourne truck adapters?
Which would you recommend for someone who can't turn for shot on a surfboard, that's the real question 😅
Wander, how YOW compares to Carver…
Any tips on which board is better for a beginner (surf and skate) so I dont make the wrong purchase haha
Can you release full video of 7:27? It looks so good
Are you recommending the c7 or cx trucks?
Where in OX are you guys? Love your work..
nicely explained,. Not about the board. but how you use it
Thanks a lot for such a valuable information. Very intelligibly and interesting!
Ride the wave. This is the line that i was look for. Great talk. Guys i will give you both thumbs up.
Much appreciated
Which Carver would you use for a beginner (barely any experience skating or surfing) on the bowl?
Carver CX trucks are best for a beginner. They can be adjusted to be tighter if need be to make it more stable (just don't over tighten the truck and then too stiff to turn!)
Video super helpful and makes sense.
You really do need to have that tactile sensation to move when the wave wants you to, not when you want to move up or down the wave.
No surf skate, I prefer to learn surfing by surfing and I don’t fancy being forced out of the water for months because I got injured trying simulate surfing on land.
@@hepteropterix This hasn't been my experience really at all. I've had the amazingly good fortune to become part of a tight knit local surf crew in a small coastal community in the Pacific Northwest. The members of this crew are pretty diverse in terms of skill set, age and level of experience, with most of us being late adult beginners, mixed in with a few local guru types who have been surfing for decades and are very solid at what they do.
Within this environment in the last few years, I've been able to go from zero, to a solidly competent lower intermediate surfer; surfing head to overhead set waves at a fairly unforgiving beach break. I can do front side/back side bottom turns/cutbacks and have also developed relatively good bodysurfing/ocean IQ skills as well.
I don't say this as a flex and I realize how fortunate I am to essentially be living in a full time surf camp (and I have a LOT of work to do in order to get better). However I say this because I've been able to achieve all that I have so far simply by surfing/bodysurfing on a regular basis (usually 3+ times a week depending on conditions etc). Some of the other late learners in my crew are actually very good skaters and really none of what they know has translated in any meaningful way.
The hard truth about surfing that no one wants to admit (especially those on youtube trying to sell you things) is that in order to actually learn and progress at it, you have to be in a position to do it regularly. I realize that few people are in a position to actually persue surfing in that capacity, and as a result all manner of "surf training" products/programs have popped up with the promise of surf progression outside of the surf.
I'm not saying that land based training, or even skating are a total waste of time, but the fact of the matter is that surf skating in particular has been massively overhyped in terms of its impact on progression. You can be the best surf skater in the world but if you don't get out in the water multiple times a week at a minimum it's not going to have any meaningful impact on progression at all.
Most of the people hyping up surf skating on youtube have either been doing it along with surfing for the better part of their lives, or were already very competent surfers before they started skating (or vice versa), or are trying to sell you something, or all of the above.
The whole premise is kind of ridiculous honestly, if you don't have regular access surf, then the last thing you should be concerned with is trying learn how to do turns. Chances are you should be focusing on the very basics like developing fitness and ocean IQ through activities such as swimming, bodysurfing and riding a skill/conditions appropriate board with the goal of perfecting trim both front/backside.
Kale Brock said the Smoothstar is better but this video is showing that the carver is better??
Swelltech
Do you use C7 trucks at all?
Great video! Have subscribed.
On that note, would a regular longboard-style skateboard be better than a smoothstar for this style of training? Couldn't really see much difference in the trucks on a carver from videos (height?) than a longboard I already own but haven't seen one in the flesh yet.
The carver cx trucks are reverse kingpin trucks! They feel different than normal trucks!
@@MrBerndSp thanks brother good to know will have to get my hands on one!
Welcome aboard! - On your note: You have to try and feel.
Nope, smoothstar 100% better than a normal longboard in my experience. Started surfing about 25 years ago and skating about 35 years. Even on the flat I find the smoothstar to beneficial for my surfing but and the its a but that the guys mentioned in the video, the ease of picking up bad habits can be very easy. I think as long as you are surfing more than on the skateboard practicing surf stuff you'll learn what feels right on the skater. I think that goes for any system of surfskate too. Even with that much experience on a skate board the smoothstar felt absolutely foreign. Haven't been on a craver but I used to skate the local bowl heaps on a londboard. So long story short is longboard is better than a normal skateboard and surfskate is better than I longboard and surfing every day is better than all three combined. Last one is wishful thinking most of the time. 😂
whats the difference between c7 and cx trucks? and which ones should i buy
AFAIK c7 is more surf oriented (super turny) CX is more or less like a very turny normal skateboard truck.( less turny than c7)
so C7 if you're looking into the surf feel and/or challenge CX if you're more of a cruiser/ commute wth board
Genios!! saludos desde Buenos Aires
Extremely helpful
Found it
Well, I have never surfed before but Carver kept me wiggle. As I started to use waterborne adapter with 180 mm track in the back and 110 in front, I really learned the compression and decompression effect. But that happened on streets, so I cannot compare. Still, there are different opinions from other surfers who recommend swelltech, waterborne, smoothstar and even yow.
Everyone is entitle to their opinion. As mentioned in the video everything is in the hands of the user.
What a load of bollocks. You can build bad habits (wiggling) just as easily on a Carver CX as any other surfskate and you can hold a drawn out turn on a surf adapter style truck (like the Smoothstar) just as easily also. The main difference is that Smoothstar type trucks require more torsion (as well as compression and weight distribution) than the CX, which in many people's view makes them feel more akin to real surfing.
You can also build good habits skating on the street, if anything it'll teach you to hold your speed much better. That's not to say that skating a bowl isn't good too, but to say that street skaters tend to wiggle is as stupid as saying bowl riders can't execute a powerful top turn. Clayton has clearly arrived at his conclusions prematurely and is just dredging up half-baked evidence to support them.
Exactly. Very biased video towards the "made in usa" carver.. In 2015, while skating some road near the beach In Busan I met Greg Falk. I had a Carver and Smoothstar with me, he totally dismissed the Smoothstar as "a piece of sh#t made in China dude", mind you they were made in Taiwan back then.
At that time, Smoothstars were banned from being sold in the US. I'm glad to see that changed, and that there are so many options now on the market.
@@hepteropterix Triggered? What are you? Like, 10 years old? Give your balls a tug.
When they finally drop maybe you'll realize that I was addressing specific things that were actually said in the video. Maybe you should watch it again?
As for my own purchases, I own multiple boards with both styles (including the CX, C7 and Smoothstar), so I'm not criticizing them to feel better, I'm criticizing them because I know from experience that they're talking bollocks.
Are you guys using the CX or the C7 trucks in the carver? Thanks for the vídeos. Help a lot
Im also keen to know.....
It's a CX
The Guy doing the interview on the right is a kook
Oh, don't mind Ant....he's OUR kook! (I wish I could surf as well tho) Standing in for all of us.
You were a kook at one time
that bowl is the bomb!!
Thanks Ans!
Well explained! Thanks!!
Thanks for watching Balthazar!
Have you used a YOW surf skate?
We have!
@@ombesurf what is your opinion of it?
I have a Smoothstar MantaRay; I do ride it on the flat mostly. I think if you make sure to compress and extend to create speed, through long carves, (check Kale Brock's videos), rather than wigglewoggle using your front foot mainly, you'll get a lot more of of the surf-experience out of flat riding. In the bowl, the board's loose front truck gives me so much freedom, I feel confident hitting most angles and taking any lines I want. Totally agree with Clayton though; moving from flat to the bowl wall is critical to get the actual feel of surfing. I can throw a big tail slide on the flat...but I am miles away from YewLayton levels on the walls!
I have a an old 27 penny board, could I use that over a carver ?
Check minute 12:20