Is Suspension The Future Of Gravel Bikes?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Suspension on gravel bikes is a contentious topic, with many people arguing that you should just ride a mountain bike off-road instead. But as technology evolves and more people start to ride gravel, the demand for forms of suspension on gravel bikes has evolved. Si is convinced it's the future, but how do you feel?
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si you left half the fork at home
He lost it. Rattled loose.
Seriously ... it’s made like that to be lighter
I had the privilege of riding a Lefty for one trail run a few years back and even though it's normally on bikes that are too expensive for my tastes, or abilities I experienced stiffness and flex-free steering precision that I've never encountered with any fork other than rigid forks before. Granted, my old RS Pikes with a Maxle are far from the best or stiffest thing around today but I've tried out newer bikes with modern, better Fox and BOS forks than mine and they're still missing the bump-sensitivity and precision of that Lefty I tried.
Before you think I'm mad for Lefty forks, I'm not. They're expensive and much harder to maintain, apparently. They also severely limit your frame and hub choices. Like most of us, I make do with perfectly acceptable regular forks and almost wish I'd never ridden that Lefty. I'm not willing to put up with its downsides but I now know how much more flex, weight, and sticktion my own forks bring to the table. Ignorance was bliss!
@@chrisfanning5842 there's a big impacting factor you're missing. The wheels. They change the way a bike handles massively. Cheap wheels are weak and flex in both axes. The radial flex is okay, but the lateral makes the steering fell muddy. Entry trail wheels are stiff in both directions which isn't optimal, but better. The wheels on the lefty were probably high(er) end,maybe carbon. Good expensive wheels flex on radial impacts, same as the suspension,but not laterally, so the feel very precise to steer. I never rode a lefty, but their lateral stiffness is praised (and marketed...) so mayby you felt the combination of really good wheels and a really good fork.
@@blackpete Lefties are just AMAZING. The best suspension ever you will ride, and not only are they superstiff, but also react way faster to imperfections as they have way less stiction.. but what makes them amazing in use also makes them a pain in maintenance, just look at the intervals:
cannondale.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/219100977-What-are-the-required-service-intervals-for-Lefty-forks-
Essentially £1-£1.50 per hour of operation.
Sometimes roadies' opinions are as stiff and unforgiving as their frames and tires...
stiff like a sports car = gotta go faaaast.
Przemyslaw Sliwinski at least trials riders know to differentiate their opinions and frame stiffness...
Hahaha spot ON and just like UCI road racing rules...roadies are generally very difficult to accept changes/progress......ie the hoohaas regarding disc brakes which MTB have been using for ages and even slow acceptance of tubeless....hahahaha
Or perhaps it’s different strokes for different folks.
@MRGRUMPY53 You've been living under a rock mate?
Ah, as a citizen from a third world country, I have finally found a road bike fit for my city. Though I might have to work for a year to get enough money to buy this.
Ur probably better off with a cheap one from some local shop, bikes like that get stolen pretty easily
Are you from England?
the best bike, is the one you have!
Chad Hayag yes it’s hard to be a British.
this bike is stupid, cost big and easy target for thefs , stay low profile with your cheap wheels and be happy.
We are just re-living mountain bike development. We are now somewhere around 1999
Sit back, relax and enjoy the cyclomilennium crisis
@@PolyglotBikepacker you would think companies could take a lesson from history and skip all the interim steps, but where is the profit in that?
Yep
I would just put 40mm width gravel tires on a cross-country mountain bike if I need a gravel bike 😂
Remember Simon telling he rode gravel cause mtb had got too easy?😅
Jeez
Dave Zabriskie said something similar, although more complimentary of mtb. He said in an interview for a gravel channel that “if you think the course seems easy, just downgrade your bike”. His own way of saying how much he enjoys both mountain and gravel.
So dum. Change terrain!
😂 I remember that, whilst riding a boring, mellow trail and spouting off like it was technical 😂
For me it’s more like an “MTB light” not gravel. come on , dropper post and full suspension frames? Why? I think the market is trying to sell everything right now under the umbrella of gravel. I am huge fan of non-competitive bike touring and bike-packing but these features are totally unnecessary.
Is mountain bike the future of gravel bike ? 😉
No!!! Who the hell wants to ride a montagne bike on hilly roads!!!!
@@kevywilliams3304 seems like you didn't get the joke
@@P0pcornmaschine looks like someone else didn't. But the problem is, it isn't a joke, is it? Marketing people pushing 90s MTB geometry hard, now with 90s miniscule travel suspension fork. And in a couple of years a suspension gravel with more travel and a gravel bike that weights less etc. Just ride what you like but don't be fooled by the marketing - a suspension fork adds a kilo to the bike and at least a few hundred dollars to the price... Wake me up when there's a full suspension bike below the UCI limit...
Judging by bike shop inventory around here, mtb are the only bikes. We have no mountains here.
just google flat bar gravelbike: how to sell a 90ies mtb in 2020
As mountain bikes got more suspension had to ride tougher terrain to get the same level of excitement, when I got a CX bike was amazed how much fun it was riding green and blue mtb trails and even the forest roads became enjoyable. I think suspension would make it more comfortable and easier but mean less grins.
I definitely regret getting a full sus trail bike for riding mtb in my area. Even the harder trails I could probably do on my cx bike.
Yeah but even a cx bike , when you hit big roots and ruts and branches they just are not made for that abuse without any compliance of a suspension
exactly my thought, I thought the point of gravel bikes was a "back to the roots" cross country experience..
Is mountain bikes the future of gravel bikes? ...
Is gravel bikes the future of mountain bikes??
No chance, that couldn't do half of what we can
@@phillipstewart2031 Is road bikes the ultimate future of both mountain and gravel riding? At some point cyclists are gonna understand that straight tubes and narrow tires are soo much faster! They will even find a genious system that is lighter and easier to use than those giant rotors sticking on your wheels. The future is bright
Will the road bike finally go extinct? The future is bright!
@Salvatore Gravano yeah, the biggest thing keeping me from buying a gravel bike, is a road bike. Already have a HT MTB
@Salvatore Gravano Lmao it's a hit now. Gravel's the ultimate bike for all terrain
For the price of that thing you could get a half decent road bike and a hardtail...
But neither can do both road and off road really good.
Better have one best thing, than two good ones.
@@blackpete sure darling.
@@blackpete But this also can't do on and off road really good. It's a compromise.
@@earthstick It's always a compromise. You just need to decide what and how much you want to compromise. Which is gonna be different for every rider. When you buy an MTB solely for off road riding, you compromise things as well. For example an enduro bike is gonna be better on the descends, and an XC bike is gonna be better on the climbs etc.
I roll a 2018 Specialized Diverge full Carbon W future shock suspension, Which it really does add to the comfort and overall feel of a really fast machine that's compliant.. ✌💜😎
mine came with x30 tires, moved to x32. Been eying x37 at next tire replacement. Friend of mine get the new model, with x38 tires and he's enjoying it
Mine has 38's and they are Ideal!! 🙂
My main problem with shocks and other suspension pieces on gravel bikes is simply the service interval of those pieces. The Lefty Ocho rebuild interval is 200 hours. That's fine on a mountain bike as you're not generally going to be riding more than 2-4 hours at a time. Gravel/road? You might be rebuilding 2-3x or more a year if it's your primary/commuter bike.
I think this is an inherently niche product: only for people who can afford more than 1 expensive bike, and those with very specific riding needs.
This bike frame with a lauf fork, all flex, no sliding parts
I had a Slate when I lived in Iowa. Completely awesome there as gravel roads could be very rough. I now live in Minnesota, with much smoother gravel and traded my Slate in on a new Domane. I run two wheel sets, and with 40c tubeless it’s great on MN gravel. So, yes, probably niche for states like IA, KS, NB, etc. but completely worth it on those rough roads. The maintenance intervals are definitely inconvenient. I usually was ‘notified’ about mine when the fork began to stick and the ride suddenly got much harsher.
200 hrs is a very long time when you think about it. Typically, MTB forks have a 50 hrs service interval.
@@bink281 Yes 50 hours for a small service, but also 200 hours for a big service, its just that most people dont do it like that. Most people will just get it serviced when they really notice problems or after a long time like 2 years.
What I like about this is that nowadays we have more options when it comes to choose a bike. Excellent video!
How does it compare to the Lauf fork you've previously tested?
The Lauf is going to have much less maintenance and issues like that. I think it is also designed to take out the road buzz as Si called it where this left fork is for the medium to large bumps
0:39 gonna let us make up our own mind ? Thats what we always do Si. Nice vid and bike btw.
Si’s so consistently good in these videos but at 4:21 he really surpassed himself 😄👍
I’m looking forward to these becoming more mainstream, I live in South Somerset and always found the roads uncomfortable on a road bike, have since changed to a gravel bike and couldn’t be happier. Looking at that Cannondale it just gives you so many options on one ride which can only be a good thing in my eyes.
This topic is front and center for me! I spent the past weekend on so many gravel roads on my gravel bike and when I returned home, said to my partner...is it possible to put front suspension on my Norco? We are looking at options now because it would be so much more comfortable, especially with the rocky gravel roads we have in New England. Thank you for this run-down of information. Cheers!
At this point just put dropbars on a mtb and call it a day
It would be awesome if it was that simple.
I have a 90's rigid steel frame Peugeot mountain bike I've put drop bars and a road crankset on as my winter commuter. Of course it's a heavy beast compare to today's gravel bikes, weighs 16 kilos.
Modern MTBs are a bit different. The biggest problem is reach. Straight bar specific bikes always have longer top tubes, especially new MTBs. If you put a drop bar on an MTB you will be super stretched out. You can just put a short stem on it, but the handling might be crap with a super short stem and drop bars, and even XC bikes are moving to shorter stems so sometimes you simply can't get a short enough stem to account for the extra reach added. You can also try to size down, but the fit might never feel right. Then you have drivetrain compatibility issues. Then if you want a bit higher gears for road sections, you might not be able to put a chainring big enough on an MTB, because chainring sizes are usually pretty limited for maximum tyre clearance. Then you have the $$$ issue. The bike in the video is expensive, but so is converting a new MTB (drop bar hydro prices are ridiculous).
There are drop bar MTBs out there that were designed from the ground up with drop bars in mind, like the Salsa Cutthroat (sweet bike IMO). But it's not as simple as just bolting drop bars on instead of flat bars.
@@HollyBoni have you seen the high end gravel bikes? they have a long wheelbase and high reach, and require a short stem
its basically a mtb with dropbars and a rigid fork and low headtube
@@HollyBoni imo if you wanna go fast off road, rigid titanium is the way to go. just get a custom frame done and you're good to go. make the toptube really low, and have it slope up. hell, just get a moots with the weird rear triangle, don't need shocks.
I think you need to review Redshift on CX setups for minimum weight
One important aspect worth mentioning that suspension provides is compression and rebound damping. Tires do have some suspension but no damping.
Of course they do, it's inherent in the material, otherwise you'd be rebounding up and down endlessly after the very first bump.
I started in MTB but now, work/living circumstances put me in the heart of the city, meaning I have a high % of time on roads. That said, over the past year, I haven't done a route yet that didn't include some section of off-piste, which at times can get quite gnarly. I have route options available that could see 25-33% of my ride on questionable surfaces. As such, I continually find myself yearning for the utility of a MTB to cruise quickly and accurately over the rough stuff but with the lack of grams of a road bike for speed on tarmac that comprises the majority of my route-km. This Cannondale Topstone, unlike the Frankenbike that is the Slate, looks like it ticks all of the boxes. I want no limitations on my riding. Now if GCN could just help me to complementarily demo the bike for a year, that would be quite nice thank you very much!
I think a combination of a Moots Routt YBB with a Lauf SL would be a worthwhile test in this category!
Is it only me that finds the aesthetic awful with a suspension only one side? It looks like a joke to me...
Yes.
its actually pretty ocol looking in real life.
I guess 9 likes they mean that they don't like it like me.. So for now it is 9 against 2.. Pretty clear so far :D
I certainly do NOT like the looks of Lefty suspension
You're not alone. The whole bike to me does not look good
Bike companies are always creating "niche" in the market in order to sway people to spend more. First, there was the RBs then followed by the MTBs afterwards they combined both to come out in our consciousness the Gravel bikes in rigid forks then now introducing a Gravel bikes with suspensions so we goes back to MTBs. People spend more by following this "niche" with they created to enriched themselves.
There were lots of people before gravel bikes who owned 5 different kinds of MTBs for different purposes.
@@HollyBoni my point. by the way, i forgot to mention ebikes.
You can consider any bike if you like but what really determines which bike makes sense is you style of riding and even more WHERE are you planning riding, in my opinion. I live in North California, the real north meaning in the redwood forest, so all roads and paved roads are bumpy...now you tell me what I am riding and what I am planning to get as my next bike. Smile.
It’s almost like they invented these nearly 40 years ago, think they called them mountain bikes back then.
I see PLENTY of room in the market between traditional rigid gravel bikes, and XC mountain bikes. My quiver killer dream bike sits in this space that's currently under-served. More of this!!!!!!!!
I own both a mtb and a gravel bike (no front suspension), using the gravel bike even on light trails is a pain particularly because of the rigidity but also it’s geometry that puts you above the handle bars, how hard it is to position behind the seat and also very narrow handle bars to deal with rocky terrain. I really like the gravel for tarmac and occasional dirt road short segment but would def not recommend for any trail of any level
Just started riding my Cannondale Topstone 105 alloy (not rich enough for carbon). It's a dream, and a perfect match for my regular riding route. If I were to consider rougher terrain, some suspension would be nice to have. As it is, on the packed roads that I ride, the big tires and carbon fork dampen the road enough for me.
For myself..& my cutthroat, a red shift stem & maybe the seat post is all I think I'd ever need suspension wise for the terrain I typically ride.
I have got a full suspension road bike, a 2000 Hercules Emozione. It makes the ride really smooth on the road but comes with a penalty of around 2-3kg. Now with the trend to gravel bikes I would like to fit bigger tires in there. With 1mm of clearance I can just fit 28mm wide tires. And now modern endurance disc bikes can fit already wider tires of around 32-35mm which are not as plush as a full suspension but are probably a better compromise for speed and weight.
All bikes are getting better and for sure, it looks like a bit of suspension on gravel bikes is the way to go. You always do good work, Si, as Scientific Si and thanks for that.
Gravel bikes are just gonna be dropbar mountain bikes within 5 years.
I guess Gravel bikes can be anything in between a strict road bike and a full suspension MTB now. I think the main problem going forward is the lack of standards. It would be crazy expensive if every company had their own proprietary suspension designs unlike the standardized MTB suspension forks and rear shocks.
There are already a few drop bar MTBs out there, I don't see the problem with it personally.
@@HollyBoni its not a mtb if it has drop bars mate
@@dermax_hd right... because changing handlebars just changes the entire bike...
@@dermax_hd Is there a law for that or something? There are bikes out there with MTB geo (head angle, suspension corrected fork etc.) adjusted for drop bars (shorter top tube), MTB tyre clearance, MTB BB shell like the Salsa Cutthroat. Makes sense to call these drop bar MTBs. But i'll call them adventure bikes then. Happy? 😁
I love GCN's (and Si's for that matter) attitude towards sponsored content.
Reasonable. They at least make it clear that it is sponsored.
The Jeremy Clarkson of the two wheeled pusher world?
As always, people in the comments (already) whining that you should get an MTB. Just remember, the MTB will be slower on gravel roads, and probably not as comfortable on long rides. Also, in case you haven't noticed, your car will hopefully have suspension, and it's there to improve handling and comfort.....
get an *xc* mtb with gravel tyres. there. solved your problem.
Yeah, every car and motorcycle has suspension. Going 300ks on a racetrack without it....? Not possible.
@@jeidun hardtail or fs? 😏
@@jeidun What problem? Is buying a gravel bike a problem? Why is it not a problem that there are all kinds of different MTBs optimized for different tasks?
Following your logic XC bikes shouldn't exist either, because you can do the same things and more on a trail bike or an enduro bike.
@@jeidun Si literally spent 10 minutes explaining the difference, slower gearing, heavier, different geo, suspension is tuned for different things and so on. Also, other people have made the comment, you are looking at serious money to do this. MTB's are a bit boring and slow on roads/tracks, while, any drop bar bike is sketchy where terrain get's serious. It's a different tool/toy for different situations.
Can I just say the quality of these vids are better than ever post lockdown🤙
One thing that people overlook: gravel bikes LOOK like a road bike. They look fast, sleek, slim and nimble in comparison to wide, sturday, stable, chunky mountainbikes (not worse, just a different aesthetic). And that is really important for a lot of people.
Also amazing your capability to pedal and talk so fluently.
Living in SoCal where the gravel is rocky, I totally understand the appeal of suspension on gravel bikes. However, suspension does make it a bit more of a specialized tool instead of the all rounder it's best as. My gravel bike doubles as a road bike with a wheel swap, so I'm good with a rigid one for the foreseeable future. If I ever needed more comfort, I could just revert to a suspension stem/seatpost if necessary.
A beautiful machine, however weighing up the cost of the bike against the pain and inevitable trip to the dentist via an angry Mrs, I think I will wait for my numbers to come in.
Just bought the Triban RC 520 Gravel. Good partial groupset (Shimano 105), not the lightest, not the heaviest. Suits my budget just fine. I'm looking mainly road and path, but light rubble and wooded paths too. Perfect for my needs. Replaced the rear cassette already from a Microshift 11-32 to a Shimano 11-34, for steeper hill sections. Will replace the chain for a proper 105 Chain soon also. Carbon forks. I'm not looking for rough gravel terrain, otherwise I'd be using a mountain bike. The wider bars of the mountain bike will also help with control on the bumpy stuff. Otherwise - road bikes with suspension would have been brought out by now.
Great product, easy to clean -worked out great !
Me: explaining gravel bikes to a friend
Friend: "oh so it's a hybrid?"
Me: "yeah basically"
Glad I'm not the only one thinking that. A flat bar gravel bike is basically just a hybrid bike.
How much does it cost???? Also why i should bye a gravel bike and not a mtb or a cycle cross??? If i want to ride mountains i will choose mtb , if i want road, then a road bike, if i want to cycle to enjoy my feelings and my heart, i will choose a fitness bike.
At what point does it go from being a gravel bike to an xc bike with drop bars though. I know geometry and drivetrain are still different but it seems every step 'forward' in gravel tech seems to be something they did to xc bikes 20 or 30 years ago
Gravel bike for decent money is extremely fun to ride on gravel roads, parks, partly roads. Any MTB would be just slow and heavy (or seem slow, but still be and seem heavy).
Not an XC bike...
Oh how great. As soon as I start looking for a monster cross bike, gcn uploads this
Devinci hatchet. If you can find one in stock anywhere
What is the difference/distiction between suspension and 'damping' and the balance beween the two on a gravel bike. Damping or suspension or both so to speak. Damping being technology that essentially amoeliorates and manages generally poor surface quality and suspention having a more active effect but presumably more impact on ride quality on good tarmac. This raises the question of the potential for damping to become (once more?) a feature of road bikes more generally especially in an endurance/winter bike arena were variable road surface is potentially significant factor. It would seem to have a logic following the trend for forks designed to allow forfor more forgiving tyre choices.
GCN switched from Global Cycling Network to Gravel Cycling Network... Gravel, more Gravel, even more Gravel. I am not sure everybody like this...
Flavor of the now.
Yes, front suspension is in the future of gravel bikes, but also the past. It's called a XC hartail mountain bike. Just put a bit more air in the tires, and you're good to go.
(Someone had to say it).
I would like to see a rigid 29er mtb test or a gravel bike (rigid) with flat bars.
Nice idea!
I'm incredibly excited to see the engineering specifically designed around gravel biking. I don't think anyone should confuse this at all for a cross country or downhill mountain bike at all - as Si said, its design concept is still very much a light, rigid road bike, and the specialized suspension is very much built around that as opposed to truly harsh offroading.
Great to hear Sumiko!
I’d like to try both this and the Niner full suspension gravel bike that was on the channel a while back and see which I like more. I don’t really like the bobbing I get on my FS e-bike and I like standing up more on a road bike so I suspect I’ll like the Cannondale. But that’s just a guess.
You are being sold a mountain bike from the early 90's
But without some of the warranty issues like cracked frames, watching the gmbn guys remembering their bikes.
damn mountainbikes from the 90's had carbon frames and suspension at this level od refinement?
@@Daniel-dj7fh No, we had tripple butted alu frames and nice front forks. The frame could be what, 200 grams more? three hundred?
The issue was cracks if you rode them hard.
Well, then don't buy it. As simple as that. I mean, it doesn't hurt to have more options, right?
Just bought my first gravel bike and it is faster and more fun on roads than my mtb. Once you try drop bars you won't come back to flat bar. Body position and handling is really something else compared to mtb. Mtb was boring to drive and slow. I was dragging 100mm fork and 2.1 tires for no reason.
As an enduro rider I've been thinking about buying a gravel bikes, mainly because a XC bike is still a mountain bike and I can't avoid trying to do the same stuff I do on the enduro bike. Gravel bikes are the best option for fitness training for mountain bikers I believe
Best video. Nice work Mates 😃
good to see Si rocking the new kit.
That one sided "fork" is a nice technology but it's bfugly as sin.
Pointless technology
Agree. Would never get one no matter how much benefits it gives
They function beautifully and I think they look awesome.
Agreed, I can’t get over how wrong it looks.
I suppose XC MTB have a choice of full suspension and a hardtail depending on the course and a roadie has a choice of an aero bike or lightweight climbing bike depending on the terrain also. So a suspension gravel bike should be seen in the same way as an option instead of being what all gravel bikes will be in the future, although the need for this option will be dictated by how rowdy gravel races in the future might become? I'd be interested to see a suspension gravel bike with the geometry to take 29er wheels and 2 inch tyres though if the larger wheels are supposed to roll better.
I like it. But it is unnecessary complicated and hugely expensive. Also for me one of the key points of a gravel bike is bike packing and Lefty cannot be loaded...
The Idea of suspension on gravel bikes is just amazing to begin with, I havent really had any experience with any other bike than XC bikes, but my terrain is usually a good mix of Road, Gravel and good climbs. I would definately try a gravel bike to see the different feel especially in terms of speed. Question is since Tires play a big role on performace, What tire size would be a sweet spot for a perfect all round Gravel grinder with / without suspension? Also Do a piece on Suspension Gravel bikes only ....Like try out the Leftys the Full Niner , the levarg i'd love to see what the lads at GCN think about those as well...AND ...any suggestions on online shops that would ship bikes down to Kenya for decent prices. Thanks.
You can always lock-out the suspension and put road tires on a gravel bike, especially if the stack height is roughly the same as a road bike. That said, the midnight blue/green Topstone Carbon with ultegra and rigid fork is one of the best looking bikes I've ever seen.
"all mountain bikes can bike, but not all bikes can mountain bike" - author unknown
"Road bikes can't mountain well, MTBs can't road well, Gravel does both well" - Author Unknown
and there's me thinking of swapping the suspension fork to a rigid fork on my hardtail hybrid because I always use it locked out and could save myself 1.5kg.
That could well be a good idea depending on the riding you do, whilst suspension feels slower in many cases, when you look at actual speed for most surfaces that aren't smooth modern suspension performs very well, and in some cases better. It's always worth trying a few options and going with what you enjoy the most
depend on which is your priority....1) fast on the road and can still go fast thru non technical trails = gravel bike wt susp. 2) Very Fast on the road but can only go thru gravel road (fireroad type) = rigid gravel bike 3) non so fast on the road but way faster on technical trails both down & up = full susp XC bike 4) slow on the road but can bomb thru/flatten tech trails/rock garden/downhills = ALL Mountain trail bike......Choose which suits you preference..
Anyway, way few years back santa cruz brand have a gravel bike like called "jake the snake"
Wasn't that Kona and a cyclocross bike?
@@chrisunderwood3453Exactly, yes, but did it have suspension, anyway? The current ones don't.
@@nikveldkamp8630 No. The Kona Jake the Snake never had suspension.
With state of most British roads, could argue that road bikes will soon need suspension too...
I suppose it depends how far you take gravel riding. Some of the scenes in this video were never gravel road and were MTB paths. With where I ride, a standard gravel like would be fine. Would probably do the commute better than the rigid hybrid too.
I would say half the roads where I live in Ohio are terrible too, to the point where its just not fun to ride without, at least, some beefy tires...
I'm just here for the comments 🍿
I get suspension far more than a dropper post for gravel bikes.
The suspension just makes the ride more comfortable on rougher surfaces.
On the other hand a dropper post is designed to aid control on rougher terrain. To my mind if you're looking at needing a dropper post to aid control you should be on an MTB. Gravel / adventure bikes are mainly for the smoother end of off road!
Ladies and gentlemen we have finally come full circle
I have done around 1000km with my gravel, mainly on very good road. With less than 5% rooty / bumpy road, my wrists and elbows hurt. So yes, if a suspension is lightweight, I would definitely need it.
If it was your money would you buy a topstone or the new diverge for 50/50 road / gravel to light trails
Si, you caught me. I had already made up my mind about suspension on gravel bikes (against) before watching the video. After hearing your thoughts I am a bit more open to the idea but will stick with my old tried and true titanium cyclocross bike for my personal gravel adventures.
I haven't ridden a gravel bike yet but I'm assuming its fairly close to a cyclo crosse bike of which I have ridden and loved. Great all-rounder. But isn't putting suspension on one a bit too much towards a mountain bike?
Or why not put drop bars on a xc or dh bike? Anyone tried that?
When I started commuiting around 200km per week I did it on a MTB. It was (and actually is still) great due to its´ forgivness and intuitiv handling. But after 6 month of commuting I got fitter and faster and the MTB gave me a feeling of slowing me down. So I opted for a gravelbike and since then my rides have become around 3 ks the hour faster. I love the various positions the bar offers and the better aerodynamics of the bike. But sometimes I´m missing a bit of suspension and more control when the ground gets too uneven. A superlight suspension fork with a little travel and a sturdy lockout would be ideal to gain some more overall speed without loosing the benefits of the gravel bike over the MTB. At least in my case this could be the next evolutianary step. So why being so "rigid" about suspension forks on gravel bikes? The better has always been the worst enemy of the good. And since the N+1 formula I don´t see why suspension on gravel bikes might not be beneficial - at least for some riders.
Agree completely! The same case here ... We can use suspension seatpost for the "rear comfort", but I would really like some subtle dampening in the front for the reasons you mentioned. But I really don't want to lose that rigid frame acceleration as the climbing capability is what I love on my gravel bike especially, so it would need to be completely rigid after locking-out.
Awesome video !!!!!
I've been wondering for years: Do you always use the same stick as your bike rack?
Great piece, Simon! The cynics would say this is the bike companies trying to bleed the customer base dry behind the flag of n+1. I love to see the time, effort, money and risk which goes into developing and applying this sort of tech. Also, it seems almost purpose-built for the UK's potholed roads!
“They don’t mind if it’s yes or no “ really?
Yes, just as long as you buy their brand. N+1 is just step no.2 later on.
Nik Veldkamp do you operate a business? If they don’t sell their “ innovations” they can’t keep investing or will be hesitant to do so. They need to sell now and down the road
@@Jimfly30 some people just don't get the point. Brand loyalty is important for business.
Some like to ride mountain bike, others road, others gravel, some even touring bike, trial or track. ;)
So I guess I can't persuade everyone to buy each type, right?
Nik Veldkamp your avoiding the original comment. The brand cares if their new products do well....period. Whether there is some solace that consumers will buy some other product or accessory is irrelevant to them in terms of future investment into innovations. Every brand cares profoundly whether their news products sell. According to your “logic why pay for advertising if the brand doesn’t care what they sell? It’s clear you have never run a business and gcn tries to make themselves impartial. They never do a good job at it and it ruins the credibility of its opinions
@@Jimfly30 I'm not avoiding the original comment, I was referring to Si Richardson as wasvthe original comment. Bear in mind this video is not a basic business seminar but entertainment and hopefully helpful advice about fully suspended gravel bikes, I just found Si's offside remark quite amusing in that context. so that's the original point you seem not to get. Sorry if you feel offended by my comments in some way.
Disc brakes, suspension... Mtb.
Actually John Tomac put drop bars on his mtb. This was done in the 80s.
Geometry is different. suspension tuning is different. It's not a mtb, but it's not a road bike
@@austinshoupe3003 Some kind of...hybrid bike...
I have ordered a canyon gravel-bike a week ago. I have a non-motorized mountainbike with full suspension. I dont want to have a bike which is almost the same with a race bar.
could the future be that the gravel bikes will be in 2 categories? one with suspension, one without. the one without suspension being the cheaper and normal priced ones and then with some more expensive suspension gravel bikes at the top of the range? to me, that seems to be something that might happen...
Suspension is the best way. 50 or more miles it makes a huge difference
unless you're only on hard pack tracks
I think that Si is talking about a specific type of gravel riding. Road riding, on gravel. Not everyone who rides gravel wants a road bike feel, so it's not the way of the future for all. Not my cup of tea, but I could see the appeal to Roadies.
Yes, gravel riding would be better with small full suspension. Many have some built in already (Moots and Specialized). Takes some of the knock out of bigger bumps.
Important distinction is not taking a gravel bike for true mountain biking. We still need dedicated Mountain bikes for that.
Bang on, ther's a lot of different ideas out there at the moment, maybe we'll see lots more innovation? There's still plenty of ideas yet to be tried
That castelli kit is super nice
Where there is a gap in the market between two existing bikes, they will plug it in the hopes of selling more bikes. I think the gap between gravel and XC racing bike is pretty small, but it’s the biggest gap left so a suspension gravel bike was inevitable. For those who live near rough gravel roads this bike makes sense, but that’s very few people. I have an XC bike and a gravel bike, I’m not getting one of these.
I too wanted suspension on my bike. So I bought a mountain bike. And put drop bard on it.
So much gravel bashing. I don’t understand it. I thought gravel bikes were a bit strange until I tried riding one. It’s a blast on roads and trails that would either be no fun on my road bikes, or unridable. It really puts the mountain bike into perspective as well. I’ve ridden a lot of mountain bike trails where riding an actual mountain bike is like taking a bazooka to a duck hunt, and some trails that pretty much demand fat tires and at least a front shock if not full suspension. Could I do a gravel race on my mountain bike? Yes, but it would be less fun and slower since most gravel races have some paved stretches that are ridden at high speed. Could I do an XC race on my gravel bike? It depends upon the course. On some courses, there would be some seriously unridable sections, but on some other courses it would be as fast if not faster. I prefer to use an XC bike for XC races, a trail bike for technical courses, a road bike for pavement, and a gravel bike for dirt and gravel road and mixed surface courses. More tools means always using the right tool for the job at hand. Also, yes, suspension will likely become more common in the mixed surface category in the years to come, but I think since gravel cycling is more related to road cycling, there will always be riders who prefer a fully rigid frameset. Some people like the feedback.
I just love using watts compressing rear suspension instead of moving me forward 😂😂😂
But even I'll admitt that 30mm of suspension travel just through carbon flex is damn impressive
@@alexm9479 what I'm not comfortable is thinking how long will it take for that stress to break the resin on that composite.
Not even steel springs last forever, using half of your frame as one doesn't sound very long-tem.
@@deabreu.tattoo Depending on how far you stress steel, it CAN last forever as a spring (though corrosion would play a part, too). Steel is just often spec'd for the expected life of the product rather than forever because the forever spec means more steel therefore more weight and more cost.
I work almost exclusively with metals rather than composites, so I'm not an expert but I do expect that when built right, these could be built to put 100,000k through the rear suspension without failure. Ultimately, if Cannondale considers that part of the frame and warranties it for life, I'm confident in it, because they'll have done the math to make sure they can afford that.
(Source: Am Engineer)
@@joelecho To cannondale that's a warranty part they ship out. For the user it's a link that holds the back wheel in place. I would rather have a rigid beam and and actual metal spring.
AMGV Media Then you need a pivot and linkage system. The bike will handle the flexing loads just fine. Heck, the Boeing 787 has a bunch of carbon parts on it, and planes flex a LOT while flying.
Why don't you test this with against hardtail with similar tires?
something tells me using a piece of carbon fiber as a spring isn't a good idea for longevity.
Having raced MTB's in the early 90's I started with a fully ridged bike (Trek 8000 & 8300) I feel like I've been here before with bike development and would definitely move to a Gravel bike with suspension like I did with MTB's but just not the Cannondale. I'm not saying I don't want the Cannondale (I currently own a SuperX, Evo Hi Mod and a Bad Habit) I would love it BUT you are so restricted with wheels and also getting the fork serviced is a total nightmare.
Just hope Fox or Rockshox develop a proper suspension fork for (not going to count the Fox ax adventure fork) gravel bikes.
After years of disc versus rim, the rim side has lost. But now a new feud has started within the disc camp: suspension or regular. Why can't there just be peace in bikeland? Stop dividing us! We are one great people! Even those weirdos on rim brake bikes are our beloved compatriots!
Another AD...well, I guess the bills need to get paid
I think this is a case of easily putting yourself into "over-biked" territory. I ride my C'Dale CAAD12 with 23mm slicks on "gravel" roads from time to time. It's a bit sketchy, but it can do it. I'd say it's "under-biked" for gravel. However, a bike with front & rear suspension of any variety is likely overkill for *most* well groomed gravel roads....it will just end up being less fun. I can see the appeal if you regularly ride severely degraded fire road roads or light single track however. N+1
I really don't like the look of those Cannondale lefty forks, and really don't trust them, isn't it putting a lot more pressure where it attaches to the fork and make it more susceptible to bending/cracking as it's not secured/supported on both sides?
As long as it’s strong enough to handle the forces from riding, it will be safe.
Great video Si. Personally I can see the benefits of short travel suspension on performance gravel bikes used for racing, but I think for how 99%of them will be used, they're unnecessary.
More importantly though...that lefty fork is just plain ugly! You mentioned in the video on 1x v 2x that you thought aesthetics play a bigger part in our choices than we might realise and this has made me see that you're right. I don't care how beneficial suspension is, if it had to come in a single sided fork, I'd leave it out every time and suffer the consequences. It's just hideous! 🤢
Has anyone put drop bars on a XC bike? I feel it might be a relatively decent option for some
Gravel bikes are the bikes SUV's: good in everything but not perfect in any. I can decide to do a long ride (200km) mixing tarmac and gravel with 35mm tires or a 100km Iron Gravel mixing rocks,sand and steep climbs fitting 42mm tires. So, a lot of fun during very different journeys.