@@scroatymcboogerballs8554 maybe but usually they do get hotels in lay overs and they need a certain number of hours between flights. There is rest requirements in place. Its not like a hospital where you are on call and need a bed there because you aren't going anywhere else.
As a former flight attendant I will tell you sometimes we will have a cancellation but they will refuse to give us a hotel. Even if we are delayed for over 4 hours. When this happened we could be forced down to minimum rest which was 8 hours. This was not 8 hours in the hotel but 8 hours for travel to the hotel, rest and getting back to the airport. That has since been changed. Also, new pay for crew is so low that they couldn't afford to stay in a hotel before work. I remember this night well since I landed at Buffalo right behind this flight. This is all we talked about for months. We talked about how this could have been avoided and what the crews have to go through at these airlines, especially at Colgan.
This documentary is a few years old. As a direct result of this crash, the FAA implemented FAR Part 117 that went into effect in 2014. It brought about MAJOR changes in how airlines operate. Before, a pilot could obtain their commercial certificate in 250 hours of training. They could fly right seat after being trained at the airline level. After 117, you could still get your commercial certificate that would allow you to be paid for flying, but in order to fly 121 (scheduled passenger operations over 19 passengers), the upped the requirement to 1500 hours plus you have to have your ATP, whereas before, you usually didnt need it until you upgraded. So that had a drastic effect on Pilot hiring. The regionals relied on new crops of young pilots who entered fast track training programs in order to qualify to fly for the regionals. Literally overnight, their supply ran dry as all of these young pilots had to turn around and go back into the trainers or worse, quit altogether because flight school is almost as expensive as med school as it is.. This created the mother of all pilot shortages on the regional level as their tenured pilots jumped ship to go to the majors with no one to replace them. So, for the first time since air route deregulations\, we saw pilot salaries on the regional level begin to climb. Airlines began offering attractive signing bonuses, tuition reimbursement, and captain qualified first officer programs (First officers who were qualified as a captain at another airline on the same aircraft type who were paid a captains salary and allowed to fly left seat as needed for the operation) In addition, it drastically changed the way pilots were scheduled. In the past, it was very black and white. 8 hours off in 24 hours, 24 hours off in 7 days. Now, scheduling has to take into account an entire matrix of factors including what time zone they start and end their day in, how many legs, how long those legs are, where their home base is, what time they finished their last leg the day before, what time their day is set to start, etc. They have to take into account whether the pilots have at least 45 minutes away from the airplane to have a meal, and requires that they have that time, even if it means delaying or canceling a flight, and most importantly, it removed the airlines ability to bring down disciplinary consequences for refusing a flight due to fatigue and prevented the airlines from bullying pilots into taking voluntary extensions if they didnt want to. (This was a HUGE step as it was very common practice to slap pilots with write ups and threats of termination if they refused a flight. Now, if they say the word "fatigue" on the recorded line, it is full stop. They have to be removed from the flight and replaced with a fresh pilot. No questions asked. If they dont have another pilot, the flight cant go,.) Furthermore, "rest" now begins from the time the pilots reach their hotel rooms, not 15minutes after the flight blocks in like before. and it ends when they leave the hotel. That was always a huge problem. They would be on minimum rest but it might take them an hour and a half to get the airplane secured for the night, get to the hotel and get into their rooms and another hour and a half to get up, dressed and back to the airport the next morning, making their actual "rest" more like 4 hours. Also, there is verbiage regarding "interruption of rest". Once they are behind the door, the airline cannot call them for any reason, even about a schedule change. If they absolutely have to, they have to restart their rest, even if it means delaying or cancelling a flight. So no more getting calls at 3am to inform them that they are now on an earlier flight. It also made unions follow suit and demand better commuter clauses, with concessions for providing pilots with hotel rooms in base if their commute will require them to fly in the night before. This crash was a literal turning point in air safety. For the first time, we saw first hand how fatigue can prove to be fatal. Both pilots were very well qualified. There was no reason for this crash to have happened but it did and it led the way to improve working conditions for pilots across the board. For people reading this, take it into account the next time you have a flight delays or cancelled due to crew availability. Dont get mad at the crew or the airline. They are literally doing this because they DONT want another Buffalo crash. That crash hit the industry as a whole very hard. No one wants to hear the words "pilot error" when dozens of people have been killed.
Fortunately I don't think a lot of people in today's world has a patience to read through everything you just took your time commenting on but I did and that's because I'm an older person you brought up very amazing points I wish more people would read through your comment ever since social media with tik tok people have the patience the attention span of a flea
A few years after this crash (June 1st 2011) I was attempting to fly from Portland, ME to Portland, OR through Newark, NJ using the same airline when tornadoes struck down in Massachusetts and as a result of the storm front Newark declared that all air traffic in and out of the airport was grounded. We attempted to take off in a hurry to race the storm and make it to Newark but by the time we were taxiing out to take off they had already grounded all air traffic so we got sent back to the terminal and got stuck in the airport for six hours waiting for them to lift the ban. By the time they finally lifted it we weren’t able to fly out because it would’ve put our flight crew over the allowed hours to fly and by then they couldn’t find suitable replacements so they ended up canceling our flight and we got rebooked for the next morning instead. Seeing what happened to cause this crash I’m grateful for the regulations they put in place as a result of it because they potentially kept us safe from flying with a fatigued crew and I’d rather we were on the ground wishing we were in the air than the other way around!
$16,000 a year for a First Mate for a $10M aircraft?? Absolutely insane. RIP to all the passengers, and thanks to the families and investigators who make flights safer today
@Miracle Tire Yeah, but when you airline pays salaries like that, there is either compromises being made on what talent you are getting or they are not even paid enough to live close to work. Who wants a 16k a year pilot?
This is the last crash in the US with a US based airline to this day!!! That's pretty impressive when you think of how many accidents there were in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and even 00's!
@drf81 Basically! Well since 2001 at least since there was one in November from JFK 2 months after 9/11. US Airways Flight 1549 ended up being one of the most remarkable flights in history!
@@Purebliss007now they do. But no, that $16,000 was her salary from the airline. Regional airlines 10+ years ago paid their desperate pilots criminally low wages.
Pilot fatigue is an important subject to address. Another important issue is pay. With pay so low and mind you I don't know if these pilots were only paid IF they flew I can see how these two pilots might've flown as much as they could to financially survive. Since both came from pretty great distances to pilot this flight I think it's a good bet that they got paid for the actual time they were piloting a plane meaning they felt compelled to accept their assignments. Another indication that they were only paid for flights piloted is when the Captain couldn't afford a hotel room and had to rest in the pilot lounge.
Anne…I don’t know how they were supposed to survive on those wages! If they rec’d a livable wage, they might have been able to live in Newark, since they flew out of there.
A few years after this crash (June 1st 2011) I was attempting to fly from Portland, ME to Portland, OR through Newark, NJ using the same airline when tornadoes struck down in Massachusetts and as a result of the storm front Newark declared that all air traffic in and out of the airport was grounded. We attempted to take off in a hurry to race the storm and make it to Newark but by the time we were taxiing out to take off they had already grounded all air traffic so we got sent back to the terminal and got stuck in the airport for six hours waiting for them to lift the ban. By the time they finally lifted it we weren’t able to fly out because it would’ve put our flight crew over the allowed hours to fly and by then they couldn’t find suitable replacements so they ended up canceling our flight and we got rebooked for the next morning instead. Seeing what happened to cause this crash I’m grateful for the regulations they put in place as a result of it because they potentially kept us safe from flying with a fatigued crew and I’d rather we were on the ground wishing we were in the air than the other way around!
I saw this crash happen. Sadly, lost a coworker and her Husband in the wreck. It’s hard to even watch this, the trauma of seeing the plane come down was enough. Rest in Peace Ron and Linda.
So sorry you had to witness this and know 2 people on the flight. Heartbreaking watching the reenactment, can't imagine in real time 💔 Rest in Peace Ron and Linda and the others who lost their lives 14 years ago today..
I flew a good 10-15 flights a month on Continental Express out of Newark into greater NE. I had days where I made several thousand dollars, and my life was in the hands of people who couldn't afford their rent. If I had known, I would have been ashamed.
@@meghanmisaliar Absolutely. Not denying that, but they were paid so poorly they literally had circumstances in their lives that endangered the passengers. They need to be paid well enough not to sleep in lounges all night after having flown in to get to work the prior day then they get into the cockpit with passengers? Maybe you think that's normal, I don't.
They was? It’s they WERE - when did speaking proper English become so accepted. The problem is no one corrects this in your life. Speak intelligently, you will prove your point much better my dear.
I can't image flying from Seattle to Memphis to New Jersey. Only to end up flying from New Jersey to Buffalo. That in itself is insane. Another thing is $16,000 a year is just over $300 a week, Shaw was making less than that.
I remember hearing about this as a kid. I lived in Buffalo and we would drive past where this happened pretty frequently. I was 9 at the time. Scared me so bad, was a huge moment of realization that the world isn’t as safe as I thought
What angers me is that these airline honchos earn millions a year in bonuses and they won't pay their workers a liveable wage. They should be absolutely disgusted with themselves - but of course they aren't. They are the type of people who got where they are by steamrolling over people.
Only 20% of US population makes over 100k annually, so these types of laws and policies can only exist because poor people are voting for it. The marginalization of the unions, depression on wages, cutting pensions, undefunding 401ks, right to work states exist because poor people vote for it.
Spending money on new technology that detects fatigue?? How about pay for their hotel stays and take care of your pilots!!! This is very sad, and to think the pilots are still blamed for their “mistake”… God bless their souls, in heaven… in Jannah 🤲🏼
My gosh! I've been on a flight where we got stranded due to winter conditions & the airline company put the entire planeload of passengers up in a hotel (w/dinner) for the night. As far as I'm concerned they didn't have to. It's not their fault bad weather happens but I'd rather sit it out in an airport overnight as a passenger than to think the flight crews aren't provided such basic amenities when they're the ones who have to pilot these machines full of people whereas I'll just be sitting in my passenger seat anyway.
@danniuwu8628 you obviously didn't pay attention. The headset with the leads on it was nothing more than sensors, like what they use for an EKG. The purpose of it was to scan the brain during the experiment so they could catalog what was going on while a pilot was fatigued. They even said that the goal was to design a system that would alert when a pilot was fatigued. In no way was it an "electroshock therapy" headset. But apparently moral outrage is more important than the facts
My brother's situation is nearly identical to this captain's. Big difference is he has family to stay with, so he doesn't face the fatigue problem or the money problem. A pilot is based out of an airport. In theory, that's where he lives. No different than any other job, the employee is generally assumed to be living off his salary and maintaining a home that way. Cost of living discussion for Newark would take a few pages by itself :p The airline will absolutely take care of pilots with hotel rooms at most stopovers, but this is a case of, that's officially the pilots' home. When you're at home, your boss doesn't worry if you have a bed nearby, he just says "be back in time for your next job" and leaves you to live your life as you choose. Combine that with the tendency of pilots to have a week or more between flights and the air travel perks of the job and it becomes very easy to commute a huge distance instead of actually move to where your job is. But while that is enabled by the airlines, it is the pilots' decision to live that way. This ties in to what the captain was saying earlier; staying at the first officer rank means being higher in the seniority queue means a better chance of getting yourself reassigned to an airport close to home. Promotion to captain means going to the bottom rung of a new ladder.
This kind of reminds me of American Eagle flight 4184 that crashed in Roselawn Indiana Holloween night 1994 with 68 souls on board.Cept it crashed in an open field..Wings iced up while in holding pattern for Chicago..I have visited that memorial several times in the past...RIP to all who parrished that night...........Well i guess he mentioned the Indiana crash....
I had a family member on this flight and 2 of my husband's coworkers on this flight as well and ever since my husband's company does not allow coworkers to travel together 😑. God rest their souls🙏
Except that the 94' crash with the ATR it was poor wing design when the de-icer push the ice OVER the boot and reformed on the back side where no one can see it. Plus dealing with a weather phenomenon no one heard about with small droplets so small and freezing on contact to the plane in an instance. That crash NO one can be able to save it. This crash in this video was completely pilot error which means it was avoidable.
Having buffalo as a home airport provides a couple different issues, it's almost always a rough ride and to go almost anywhere you need to connect in NYC, O'Hare or Atlanta, you have to go through Detroit to get to Cleveland. Hopefully this type of crash never happens again.
It’s ridiculous that their first theory was “just an ice related accident” when the plane is a Bombardier (Canadian made). I mean, Canada has one of the harshest winters, those planes were designed for that kind of erratic weather and atmospheric conditions, plus there are lots of these planes flying in the sky with similar kind of weather during winters. Good thing the families and governing bodies weren’t satisfied with that initial conclusion.
Finally one I hadn’t seen before. I’m convinced I’ve seen every episode this channel has, some multiple times. They are very educational and super well done. This one scares me the most. Many airports I fly through are regional. It tells us how little pilots are paid in smaller airports and how much is still expected of them. Notice how the laws didn’t change much outside of future training. I’m willing to bet there is still a very demanding ask of smaller airport pilots through loopholes and ignored actions due to demand.
I'm surprised that this report does not mention that Renslow had failed multiple check-rides during his training. One of the areas of deficiency was stall recovery. He did not report all the failures when he applied to Colgan and they didn't check his history. Other reports say that had Colgan known of his training record, he would not have been hired. This crash was not just due to fatigue.
The scariest part about flying is that you never know if you're going to get "Sully" or "Renslo and Shaw" ....RIP to all those who lost their lives 🙏🌹🙏🌹🙏
I think the airlines should pay for their pilots’ hotel rooms! It’s a wise business decision (and a moral one) to employ well-rested pilots (and crew members).
This I don't understand. As a former ground safety officer, other than investigating safety accidents, the sole reason for my occupation was to identify safety issues in my area of expertise, then bring those issues to the proper channels for review and change before the accident happens. Which by the way happens rather quickly. It astounds me that these regional pilots were abused in such a manor that pilots had to travel across an entire continent to perform a job with the safety of their own life and those of many others on a daily bases. And do this dangerous job at such a poor salary they had to sleep on lounge chairs because they can't afford rent??!! There are so many levels of wrong here, from so many areas of occupation its sickening. I'll start with aviation safety, which by the way is probably the most extensive safety course of all safety departments. It actually took the death of these flights and determined victims families to get something done? And not from the demand of safety??? The federal and state's department of labor, really??? There are clerical clerks that got paid more than the 1st Officer. So, the airlines are an obvious failure. The FAA for not steeping up to the plate and had to be forced to do something. and these are just a few. This is just criminal.
Apparently, it doesn’t astound you that both pilots would have to have been aware of their sleep deprivation, but were willing to risk not only their lives, but the lives of others, for the sake of their poor, paying jobs and the ability to be able to say I’m an airline pilot
Welcome to the FAA, where money comes before safety until someone (usually many) die because of something we've known about for years. Honestly though, we've known about the wage problem for decades and done next to nothing about it; partially because the FTC, FAA, DOT, DOC, and other agencies/organisations get in the way.
God rest the 50 souls that perished in this tragic crash. But can we please talk about the fact that in 2009 a multi million dollar company paid an employee a salary of $16k/annually to safely transport people around the world. I deliver pizzas for a living and make damn near twice that!! Why wasn't the rules changed to properly accommodate these professionals!? This accident was 100% avoidable, with proper compensation from Continental. This is one of the better examples of travesties caused by American greed.
As a Republican and proud NRA member, I have to point out that your comment is COMMUNIST. Who are you to determine who gets paid what? We have two LAWS that covers that - the law of supply and demand and the law that business must make as much profit as possible. Pay pilots more and airline shareholders get less return. More important, executives will not be able to be paid millions a year. So what kind of world do you want to live in - one where pilots are paid a fair wage considering their responsibilities (Communist), or a world where billionaires and their children make massive profits while sitting by the pools on their private islands and executives receive exponentially increasing multiples of corporate worker pay (Capitalist)?
How unacceptable that the pilots could not afford to get a place to stay. As well as the enormous gap in the pay. Shame, really. It needs to change. We can do it to change this!! We are more than capable. APPLY THE PRESSURE.
@@DynamicSeq there's a huge difference between what you're saying and what Tina is. Also, in the end they ended up spending more money than they would have had the company provided them with accommodations for the night since they lost a plane and had to pay the victims' families.
@@Jerseybytes2 It boils down to, If your job is killing you, quit... If you don't like the pay, quit... It's not your boss fault if you don't get enough sleep, it's yours....We don't have slavery, you can just quit...
I worked in the Buffalo airport food service during this time. At that time, we actually thought that we had just fed all these people in our sit down restaurant and then moments later, they were dead. Didn’t realize it was an arriving flight……which means, when I left for the night I passed by all the people looking to pick up there loved ones
A friend of mine was in this AF flight but the flight was overbooked and just before boarding the plane they asked him if he would mind taking the following plane. He agreed and it saved his life.
This episode details the low pay and lack of oversight of the small regional carriers for their pilots. Other episodes appear to detail a lower standard of plane maintenance for these carriers compared the majors.
One of the more fascinating Mayday episodes, as are many of the ones where pilot error is chiefly to blame. I have been searching for it and thought it had been removed; glad to know it is still available here (no matter how riddled with adverts it may be).
How can NTSB investigators rely on the position of a toggle switch found in wreckage to verify whether something was engaged at the time of the crash? It seems to me that with such a violent impact, SOMETHING would be likely to bump some switches out of the positions they were in prior to impact.
A really violent crash makes it easier, as I understand it -- the impact forces push the different parts of metal together hard enough to leave marks on them, so even if it were flipped later they could see where it was.
@@pfeilspitze Super interesting... I'm glad someone read it and didn't look at it as only being a rhetorical question. Always eager to learn more, thanks!
@@flapjack413 Keep watching more episodes -- that's how I learned it! 🙃 I don't remember the episode numbers, unfortunately, but two instances that come to mind are an ADI where the crash forced the ball into the glass hard enough to leave marks showing the attitude of the plane, and one where the needle in a guage scratched the guage surface, showing the value it had in the crash. (Like the old mystery novel cliché of the clock that breaks in the struggle, showing what time it happened.)
@@flapjack413 Aha, found it! The United Airlines 585 investigation talks about hydraulic pressure gauges where there's a dent in the faceplate from the needle, so they knew where it was on impact.
I dont think they mentioned the fact that most people probably didnt realize they were flying with Colgan Air. Theeir flights were booked with Continnental , a major airline, who then sub contract it to Colgan. Who no one probably ever heard of. I took a regioal flight ftom st louis to Buffalo a few years back. Booked with Delta, but @ the bottom of my itinerary it showed an obscure airline was actually handling the flight. Pretty shady i think.
I’ll never forget waking up for school that morning and my mom told me to go back to bed school was cancelled… (we lived in Cheektowaga at the time) to this day I have not boarded a plane and I constantly look up when I hear louder then usual plane engines. Such a terrible tragedy
BTW, for anyone who doesn't know this, the REASONS the NTSB spends so much time and energy discovering the cause of the crash are twofold: 1), to prevent it from happening again 2) To determine who has to pay for all the damages. It's either the manufacturer, the airline, the pilot, the airport or, in very rare cases, the state/country. If it's a defective part, it would be the manufacturer's fault; if it was because of, for instance, poor instruction to the pilots then it's the airline's fault; if the pilot did something wrong, it's their fault (they carry insurance for this, BTW); if the tower gives them poor directions (for instance) it would be the airport's fault and if it's because a state or country has certain restrictions or laws they have to abide by that prevent the pilot from flying safely, then it's their fault.
Rebecca only making $16,000 a year while having to be away from her family and sleep on cargo planes is absolutely infuriating. This is totally unacceptable.
that should be criminal. I make more than that creating and selling stock media as a part time side hustle, and that's a million times easier than flying a plane
Typically includes everything from the pushback through the post-takeoff checklists when automation is engaged as well. You never know which flight might go badly, so professional behavior and integrity pays off if the plane or its contents have issues. I can't remember which flight it was where they were joking with the flight attendants about it right before they crashed on takeoff. Edit: Delta 1141
@@angelofmery21ou’re missing out on so many experiences. Your chance of dying in a plane crash are less than being hit by lightning ⚡️ You only live once❤
@@angelofmery21 people who avoid flying aren't necessarily just afraid of dying. Most people realize that cars are statistically a lot more dangerous. It's the manner of death that scares people. The terror that you'd experience in a plane crash, and literally plunging to your death is absolutely unimaginable. People don't die like that in car accidents. The fear of dying in that particular way (falling to your death in an out of control aircraft) is definitely enough to keep some people from flying, even if they know it's unlikely to happen.
I worked within a few miles of where this plane went down. It pretty much crashed into someone's house. A guy with ty he unlikely name of Harry Scull, who was/is a photographer for the Buffalo News, lived nearby and took shots. Harry was also involved in the OJ trial as he had pictures of OJ wearing those "Ugly Ass Shoes".
It's completely antinatural to push down on the control column during a stall, especially when flying low. Lots of training and guts needed in this situation.
really, i would have said the opposite, 1st thing you learn about flying is airspeed is related to pitch and the only way to get out of a stall is to speed up by pushing the nose down. if you are 50' from the ground i get it, but they were on approach and i assume a 1000' or so up.
@@TheSateef My point was that the human's instinctive reaction to a stick shaker is to pull up on the column and hit on the throttle, especially if you see the ground just beneath you. The pilots proved my point.
@@TheSateef yeah if you're at flight level 300 sure , push down. But when you're approaching a landing and see houses in front of you, even a nose down might be too late to get out of a stall when you're so low
They had one, Flight 401, where the altitude warning was middle C and was exactly the same frequency as the plane! That means, something is being canceled out. In that case, the altitude warning...that's why they crashed! Everyone was worried about the light that wasn't working and they sank a perfectly good plane.
As a Republican and proud NRA member, I have to point out that your comment is COMMUNIST. Who are you to determine who gets paid what? We have two LAWS that covers that - the law of supply and demand and the law that business must make as much profit as possible. Pay pilots more and airline shareholders get less return. More important, executives will not be able to be paid millions a year. So what kind of world do you want to live in - one where pilots are paid a fair wage considering their responsibilities (Communist), or a world where billionaires and their children make massive profits while sitting by the pools on their private islands and executives receive exponentially increasing multiples of corporate worker pay (Capitalist)?
He was a captain on a flight i had a couple months beforehand. We flew right into a thunderhead and went up several thousand feet in severe turbulence. When we landed, they kept the cockpit door closed, probably to not hear it from passengers. He was an incompetent pilot. I never flew Colgan-Continental again and never again a prop plane.
He should have never been a pilot in the first place. I never flew a plane but I know the two most important things to look out for---speed and altitude. Who pull up during a stall?
Buffalo has horrible weather. I spent the winter of 2009-2010 there and I won't ever do it again. The great lakes make very unique horrifying snow. It's sideways, whipping, stinging like needles. The winds are stinging and I've never been in anything close to that bad of weather. There are 2 lakes, I don't recommend it if you don't like cold and snow.
So that guy is the reason I can't get a license to fly a 2500 lb Cessna over empty wheat fields because I have been diagnosed with sleep apnea that does not affect me at all. I am, however, allowed to drive an 80,000 lb truck 3 feet from a family car on the highway (in the next lane over). Tell me, which of those vehicles do you think poses a bigger threat to public safety?
I remember flying a commuter plane continental years ago and the plane was rocking badly up on landing. I figured it was strong winds..it felt like the pilot was fighting to keep the plane straight. I told the pilot gj when I got off. Seeing how this is farmed off to crappy subcontractors who don't pay their pilots and overwork them...well I'm not flying commuter planes anymore.
dude i work at a yogurt shop as a manager really not doing much and make well over 50k a year. more then half my shift im sitting in the corner waiting for something to do
One switch caused this? What a tragedy. I’m so glad staff are getting rest and their pay has increased substantially. These pilots were not paying attention to the stall warning. OMG 😱 Tragic.
I was the flight attendant on the the US Airways plane that landed right after that. Our pilots didn't tell us it happened until after we landed but we saw the fire. I started my flight attendant career at Piedmont and I was always told to speak up if I felt uneasy at anytime. I always wondered if any noticed anything before the plane took off.
It was such a quiet night because of the snow, too. I found out about it when my son called from the Denny's near the airport around 1:00am where he and a friend were eating because the BBC had called them asking about the crash. (The guy who took the call knew they were from Clarence.) I knew the person who lived across the street from the house that was destroyed. He said it sounded like a tree fell. He couldn't believe it when he looked out the window and saw flames and the tail of the plane sticking out of the house.
Its scary to think that a plane could literally just crash into someone's house like this! RIP to all of the victims. I feel bad for the pilots because it was obvious that they were exhausted and clearly not intending to cause harm. Airlines should be providing their staff with accommodations.
Pay alone doesn't make for a better pilot. This should not have happened but in a different light than Mayday shows. How can a captain or former flight instructor not know the Basic fundamentals of flying. RIP to all those who were lost. May God bless their eternal Soul.
Buffalo is my hometown and I remember when this happened. I was 16 years old walking out a Circuit City, then hearing the news soon after. I didnt know of all the details of the pilots and how avoidable this crash was.
"Fatigue warnings". Sounds like a way to "keep them working". Here's a better idea. How about taking steps to PREVENT fatigue in the first place? Like forcing the airlines (even regional ones) to pay for hotels so they can get proper rest instead of forcing that cost on underpaid pilots who cant afford it. How about that?
Exactly my thoughts. Or at least give them a cost-of-living stipend because a lot of Airline bases are in the most expensive cities including; New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, etc. They all a very high cost of living expensive compared to wherea lot of Airline Personnel live so they can't afford apartments or houses in those bases cities. At least pay them enough so that they can afford a hotel if they decide to commute in *or* pay them enough so they can afford to rent an apartment in these expensive base cities.
The control column suddenly starts to shake. It’s a warning that the plane is about to stall. I watch a lot of videos did they teach what to do when plane stall?
I understand that every country in the world except for the USA uses a metric system , but shows that don’t give measurement equivalents are so frustrating
I remember when this happened. I remember hearing specifically about this girl and I was Twenty-One years-old and I remember it was so sad and at the time they didn't say if everyone died or not so I was hoping that somehow she lives but then I saw the flames and everything and I was like wow nevermind. that sucks
@@jamesstreet228 the girl Elise that they talk about in the video. I remember the news talking about her coming to read at her niece's school or something like that. At the time they didn't give many details so I was just thinking hopefully she made it. But they showed the wreckage and such. It's crazy the details I remember of that night.
@@thickerconstrictor9037 That's horrible my friend. I can't imagine knowing someone who went down in a plane crash. What a horrific death that would be.
Airlines should be made accountable for pilot fatigue. These two had to fly long distance for a short commute.. Didn't the airlines factor in those long flights they took just to get to N.J. ??????? Why do these commuter plane pilots earn so little ??? It should be fewer hours and higher salary. They should not have been old this, they should have known this. It's only logical. WHERE WAS THE MONEY GOING instead of to the pilots ???? THAT is the question. I DON'T FLY ANYMORE.
In 2009, a full time minimum wage worker made $15,121. If they burned your fries because they were sleepy you don’t die. They probably get better sleep anyway. $16k isn’t nearly enough pay for a pilot.
Appreciate the videos but as I live in the state I'm right between two airports. Ya, I'm not going to sleep too well everytime I hear a plane go by. I've heard this one,very tragic and scary.
5:35 When you see that pilot meter red dots on speed indicate it is stalling also it is turning rapidly. That is a spin stall and hard to recover from.
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Sneaking [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ILUps2zDFU/mqdefault.jpg)
What three mistakes did pilots make?
I thought the ice was the mistake.
@@scroatymcboogerballs8554 maybe but usually they do get hotels in lay overs and they need a certain number of hours between flights. There is rest requirements in place. Its not like a hospital where you are on call and need a bed there because you aren't going anywhere else.
Flying while fatigue, increased in speed, and pulled the yoke instead of pushing
As a former flight attendant I will tell you sometimes we will have a cancellation but they will refuse to give us a hotel. Even if we are delayed for over 4 hours. When this happened we could be forced down to minimum rest which was 8 hours. This was not 8 hours in the hotel but 8 hours for travel to the hotel, rest and getting back to the airport. That has since been changed. Also, new pay for crew is so low that they couldn't afford to stay in a hotel before work. I remember this night well since I landed at Buffalo right behind this flight. This is all we talked about for months. We talked about how this could have been avoided and what the crews have to go through at these airlines, especially at Colgan.
Catch you tomarrow! Not 17 and can not stay up all night..SLEEP WELL.
This documentary is a few years old. As a direct result of this crash, the FAA implemented FAR Part 117 that went into effect in 2014. It brought about MAJOR changes in how airlines operate. Before, a pilot could obtain their commercial certificate in 250 hours of training. They could fly right seat after being trained at the airline level. After 117, you could still get your commercial certificate that would allow you to be paid for flying, but in order to fly 121 (scheduled passenger operations over 19 passengers), the upped the requirement to 1500 hours plus you have to have your ATP, whereas before, you usually didnt need it until you upgraded. So that had a drastic effect on Pilot hiring. The regionals relied on new crops of young pilots who entered fast track training programs in order to qualify to fly for the regionals. Literally overnight, their supply ran dry as all of these young pilots had to turn around and go back into the trainers or worse, quit altogether because flight school is almost as expensive as med school as it is.. This created the mother of all pilot shortages on the regional level as their tenured pilots jumped ship to go to the majors with no one to replace them. So, for the first time since air route deregulations\, we saw pilot salaries on the regional level begin to climb. Airlines began offering attractive signing bonuses, tuition reimbursement, and captain qualified first officer programs (First officers who were qualified as a captain at another airline on the same aircraft type who were paid a captains salary and allowed to fly left seat as needed for the operation)
In addition, it drastically changed the way pilots were scheduled. In the past, it was very black and white. 8 hours off in 24 hours, 24 hours off in 7 days. Now, scheduling has to take into account an entire matrix of factors including what time zone they start and end their day in, how many legs, how long those legs are, where their home base is, what time they finished their last leg the day before, what time their day is set to start, etc. They have to take into account whether the pilots have at least 45 minutes away from the airplane to have a meal, and requires that they have that time, even if it means delaying or canceling a flight, and most importantly, it removed the airlines ability to bring down disciplinary consequences for refusing a flight due to fatigue and prevented the airlines from bullying pilots into taking voluntary extensions if they didnt want to. (This was a HUGE step as it was very common practice to slap pilots with write ups and threats of termination if they refused a flight. Now, if they say the word "fatigue" on the recorded line, it is full stop. They have to be removed from the flight and replaced with a fresh pilot. No questions asked. If they dont have another pilot, the flight cant go,.)
Furthermore, "rest" now begins from the time the pilots reach their hotel rooms, not 15minutes after the flight blocks in like before. and it ends when they leave the hotel. That was always a huge problem. They would be on minimum rest but it might take them an hour and a half to get the airplane secured for the night, get to the hotel and get into their rooms and another hour and a half to get up, dressed and back to the airport the next morning, making their actual "rest" more like 4 hours. Also, there is verbiage regarding "interruption of rest". Once they are behind the door, the airline cannot call them for any reason, even about a schedule change. If they absolutely have to, they have to restart their rest, even if it means delaying or cancelling a flight. So no more getting calls at 3am to inform them that they are now on an earlier flight.
It also made unions follow suit and demand better commuter clauses, with concessions for providing pilots with hotel rooms in base if their commute will require them to fly in the night before.
This crash was a literal turning point in air safety. For the first time, we saw first hand how fatigue can prove to be fatal. Both pilots were very well qualified. There was no reason for this crash to have happened but it did and it led the way to improve working conditions for pilots across the board.
For people reading this, take it into account the next time you have a flight delays or cancelled due to crew availability. Dont get mad at the crew or the airline. They are literally doing this because they DONT want another Buffalo crash. That crash hit the industry as a whole very hard. No one wants to hear the words "pilot error" when dozens of people have been killed.
Fortunately I don't think a lot of people in today's world has a patience to read through everything you just took your time commenting on but I did and that's because I'm an older person you brought up very amazing points I wish more people would read through your comment ever since social media with tik tok people have the patience the attention span of a flea
@@michaelax3025 thank you. I'm an instrument rated private pilot and certificated 121 flight dispatcher. This crash affected a LOT of us.
@KMJ 23 thank you. :)
A few years after this crash (June 1st 2011) I was attempting to fly from Portland, ME to Portland, OR through Newark, NJ using the same airline when tornadoes struck down in Massachusetts and as a result of the storm front Newark declared that all air traffic in and out of the airport was grounded. We attempted to take off in a hurry to race the storm and make it to Newark but by the time we were taxiing out to take off they had already grounded all air traffic so we got sent back to the terminal and got stuck in the airport for six hours waiting for them to lift the ban. By the time they finally lifted it we weren’t able to fly out because it would’ve put our flight crew over the allowed hours to fly and by then they couldn’t find suitable replacements so they ended up canceling our flight and we got rebooked for the next morning instead. Seeing what happened to cause this crash I’m grateful for the regulations they put in place as a result of it because they potentially kept us safe from flying with a fatigued crew and I’d rather we were on the ground wishing we were in the air than the other way around!
Thank you for your comment.
Better safe than regret for lives lost.
$16,000 a year for a First Mate for a $10M aircraft?? Absolutely insane.
RIP to all the passengers, and thanks to the families and investigators who make flights safer today
Yeah that is nuts. Crazy low pay, wtf
Yeah, but with inflation that's $17k!
60k is not enough either, they pay a manager of McDonalds more than that.
@Miracle Tire Yeah, but when you airline pays salaries like that, there is either compromises being made on what talent you are getting or they are not even paid enough to live close to work. Who wants a 16k a year pilot?
22K in 2023 money, which is dirt. She must've been part time or something.
This is the last crash in the US with a US based airline to this day!!! That's pretty impressive when you think of how many accidents there were in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and even 00's!
@NYCLife67 He should have said passenger.
And really the only one since 911. Although it's sure a miracle that US Airways flight 1549 did not suffer the same fate just one month earlier.
@drf81 Basically! Well since 2001 at least since there was one in November from JFK 2 months after 9/11. US Airways Flight 1549 ended up being one of the most remarkable flights in history!
@@DannyGoldingTV Oh yeah I forgot about that one. I guess 911 over shadowed it.
Let's not jinx it. 🤞
Less than $16,000 a year salary should be criminal by itself.
Yeah for flying a plane none the less. They paid the pilots nothing and made them do all kinds of traveling just to do their flights.
Fkin disgusting greed.
That must’ve been her salary when teaching. Commercial pilots make way more than that
@@Purebliss007now they do. But no, that $16,000 was her salary from the airline. Regional airlines 10+ years ago paid their desperate pilots criminally low wages.
Unless it was 1940
Pilot fatigue is an important subject to address. Another important issue is pay. With pay so low and mind you I don't know if these pilots were only paid IF they flew I can see how these two pilots might've flown as much as they could to financially survive. Since both came from pretty great distances to pilot this flight I think it's a good bet that they got paid for the actual time they were piloting a plane meaning they felt compelled to accept their assignments. Another indication that they were only paid for flights piloted is when the Captain couldn't afford a hotel room and had to rest in the pilot lounge.
P
Cheapness eventually becomes expensive, and sadly in this case, in human lives that should never have been lost.
Anne…I don’t know how they were supposed to survive on those wages! If they rec’d a livable wage, they might have been able to live in Newark, since they flew out of there.
Except that fatigue and pay had nothing to do with this crash. Zero.
@@lbowskit did. Idiot.
I remember watching this live on the News. This "accident" should never have happened.
🕊Rest In Peace🕊
all aboard 3407 and on the ground
A few years after this crash (June 1st 2011) I was attempting to fly from Portland, ME to Portland, OR through Newark, NJ using the same airline when tornadoes struck down in Massachusetts and as a result of the storm front Newark declared that all air traffic in and out of the airport was grounded. We attempted to take off in a hurry to race the storm and make it to Newark but by the time we were taxiing out to take off they had already grounded all air traffic so we got sent back to the terminal and got stuck in the airport for six hours waiting for them to lift the ban. By the time they finally lifted it we weren’t able to fly out because it would’ve put our flight crew over the allowed hours to fly and by then they couldn’t find suitable replacements so they ended up canceling our flight and we got rebooked for the next morning instead. Seeing what happened to cause this crash I’m grateful for the regulations they put in place as a result of it because they potentially kept us safe from flying with a fatigued crew and I’d rather we were on the ground wishing we were in the air than the other way around!
I saw this crash happen. Sadly, lost a coworker and her Husband in the wreck. It’s hard to even watch this, the trauma of seeing the plane come down was enough. Rest in Peace Ron and Linda.
RIP Ron and Linda
How in the world did you see this happen dear ...that has to be horrible..... sorry for your loss
How horrible to see such a thing, I would have nightmares the rest of my life, RIP... Dear friend's,
So sorry you had to witness this and know 2 people on the flight. Heartbreaking watching the reenactment, can't imagine in real time 💔
Rest in Peace Ron and Linda and the others who lost their lives 14 years ago today..
Oh NOOOOO!!!! I’m so sorry! What a horrible thing for you to see! And lose friends ! Wow!
I am so fascinated and addicted to this show. I have learned so much. It is still a RIP to all the crew and passengers.
It's first RIP, then your knowledge
Soul comes before brain
@Sophia Coppola. Do you know that there is a famous film director with your same name.?
I flew a good 10-15 flights a month on Continental Express out of Newark into greater NE. I had days where I made several thousand dollars, and my life was in the hands of people who couldn't afford their rent. If I had known, I would have been ashamed.
good lesson to be greater for what you have
Why would you be ashamed? You don't set their wages.
They fly for the experience. NOT the money.
@@meghanmisaliar Absolutely. Not denying that, but they were paid so poorly they literally had circumstances in their lives that endangered the passengers. They need to be paid well enough not to sleep in lounges all night after having flown in to get to work the prior day then they get into the cockpit with passengers? Maybe you think that's normal, I don't.
@@duanebidoux6087
& If you think those changes have happened you would be wrong.
My forensic anthro prof was one of the students who worked this crash, identifying & recovering remains. I saw the pictures, it was really awful.
Who ever was in charge of paying these pilots should be ashamed of themselves….
Preteen model
Loo loo loo p
Lkkkkiiijkkko[
Wait a minute they was flying planes and made less than a bus driver. That's crazy. Rip pilots and all the people 😢
bus driving is a lot more dangerous.
@@josephmarzullodriving an airplane is far more difficult
That was the most bonkers part of the doc to me.
All my life I was at the understanding that airline pilots made a good salary 😢. I had thought the hotel rooms were also for free. This is God awful.
They was? It’s they WERE - when did speaking proper English become so accepted. The problem is no one corrects this in your life. Speak intelligently, you will prove your point much better my dear.
I can't image flying from Seattle to Memphis to New Jersey. Only to end up flying from New Jersey to Buffalo. That in itself is insane. Another thing is $16,000 a year is just over $300 a week, Shaw was making less than that.
I remember hearing about this as a kid. I lived in Buffalo and we would drive past where this happened pretty frequently. I was 9 at the time. Scared me so bad, was a huge moment of realization that the world isn’t as safe as I thought
Working to death should never be the norm. We are not machines.
Best comment by far.
But will be replaced by them.
We live in a corrupt capitalist society, we are machines to the 1%
Cool it with the anti semitic remarks
What angers me is that these airline honchos earn millions a year in bonuses and they won't pay their workers a liveable wage. They should be absolutely disgusted with themselves - but of course they aren't. They are the type of people who got where they are by steamrolling over people.
Only 20% of US population makes over 100k annually, so these types of laws and policies can only exist because poor people are voting for it. The marginalization of the unions, depression on wages, cutting pensions, undefunding 401ks, right to work states exist because poor people vote for it.
You are free to start your own airline and pay more....
They fly for the EXPERIENCE. Not the pay.
These same bozos beg for govt bailouts funded by tax payers while they sit on their millions
Regional beginning salaries are typically between 60-75k, so it's substantially better than 14 years ago.
Spending money on new technology that detects fatigue?? How about pay for their hotel stays and take care of your pilots!!! This is very sad, and to think the pilots are still blamed for their “mistake”… God bless their souls, in heaven… in Jannah 🤲🏼
That's what I was thinking! "We'll find weird electroshock therapy headsets to force pilots to be awake!" WHAT?! JUST LET THEM SLEEP?!!!!
How about you don't fly while you are tired..... Pretty simple solution.....
I use it all the time I'm driving....
My gosh! I've been on a flight where we got stranded due to winter conditions & the airline company put the entire planeload of passengers up in a hotel (w/dinner) for the night. As far as I'm concerned they didn't have to.
It's not their fault bad weather happens but I'd rather sit it out in an airport overnight as a passenger than to think the flight crews aren't provided such basic amenities when they're the ones who have to pilot these machines full of people whereas I'll just be sitting in my passenger seat anyway.
@danniuwu8628 you obviously didn't pay attention. The headset with the leads on it was nothing more than sensors, like what they use for an EKG. The purpose of it was to scan the brain during the experiment so they could catalog what was going on while a pilot was fatigued. They even said that the goal was to design a system that would alert when a pilot was fatigued. In no way was it an "electroshock therapy" headset. But apparently moral outrage is more important than the facts
My brother's situation is nearly identical to this captain's. Big difference is he has family to stay with, so he doesn't face the fatigue problem or the money problem.
A pilot is based out of an airport. In theory, that's where he lives. No different than any other job, the employee is generally assumed to be living off his salary and maintaining a home that way. Cost of living discussion for Newark would take a few pages by itself :p
The airline will absolutely take care of pilots with hotel rooms at most stopovers, but this is a case of, that's officially the pilots' home. When you're at home, your boss doesn't worry if you have a bed nearby, he just says "be back in time for your next job" and leaves you to live your life as you choose.
Combine that with the tendency of pilots to have a week or more between flights and the air travel perks of the job and it becomes very easy to commute a huge distance instead of actually move to where your job is. But while that is enabled by the airlines, it is the pilots' decision to live that way. This ties in to what the captain was saying earlier; staying at the first officer rank means being higher in the seniority queue means a better chance of getting yourself reassigned to an airport close to home. Promotion to captain means going to the bottom rung of a new ladder.
I remember Chalks flight 101. Same issues with 90hr work weeks. Low pay but a pilot can be a captain in 6 months that's scary!!
This kind of reminds me of American Eagle flight 4184 that crashed in Roselawn Indiana Holloween night 1994 with 68 souls on board.Cept it crashed in an open field..Wings iced up while in holding pattern for Chicago..I have visited that memorial several times in the past...RIP to all who parrished that night...........Well i guess he mentioned the Indiana crash....
I thought the same
I had a family member on this flight and 2 of my husband's coworkers on this flight as well and ever since my husband's company does not allow coworkers to travel together 😑. God rest their souls🙏
Except that the 94' crash with the ATR it was poor wing design when the de-icer push the ice OVER the boot and reformed on the back side where no one can see it. Plus dealing with a weather phenomenon no one heard about with small droplets so small and freezing on contact to the plane in an instance. That crash NO one can be able to save it. This crash in this video was completely pilot error which means it was avoidable.
Having buffalo as a home airport provides a couple different issues, it's almost always a rough ride and to go almost anywhere you need to connect in NYC, O'Hare or Atlanta, you have to go through Detroit to get to Cleveland. Hopefully this type of crash never happens again.
Rochester the same thing.
It’s ridiculous that their first theory was “just an ice related accident” when the plane is a Bombardier (Canadian made). I mean, Canada has one of the harshest winters, those planes were designed for that kind of erratic weather and atmospheric conditions, plus there are lots of these planes flying in the sky with similar kind of weather during winters. Good thing the families and governing bodies weren’t satisfied with that initial conclusion.
Finally one I hadn’t seen before. I’m convinced I’ve seen every episode this channel has, some multiple times. They are very educational and super well done. This one scares me the most. Many airports I fly through are regional. It tells us how little pilots are paid in smaller airports and how much is still expected of them. Notice how the laws didn’t change much outside of future training. I’m willing to bet there is still a very demanding ask of smaller airport pilots through loopholes and ignored actions due to demand.
I'm surprised that this report does not mention that Renslow had failed multiple check-rides during his training. One of the areas of deficiency was stall recovery. He did not report all the failures when he applied to Colgan and they didn't check his history. Other reports say that had Colgan known of his training record, he would not have been hired. This crash was not just due to fatigue.
That was criminal non-disclosure on his part. He should never have been in that cockpit at all.
Colgen didn't check nothing they had only one question
Will you work for 16K a year?
The scariest part about flying is that you never know if you're going to get "Sully" or "Renslo and Shaw" ....RIP to all those who lost their lives 🙏🌹🙏🌹🙏
They should be providing hotels and sleeping arrangements for all crew members
RIP to the lives lost in this crash. My heart goes out to their loved ones.🌹❤
I think the airlines should pay for their pilots’ hotel rooms! It’s a wise business decision (and a moral one) to employ well-rested pilots (and crew members).
Poor father, he lost a beautiful daughter. 😪
Agreed. She was hawt :3
16k a year? Wow
That father sure went to bat for his daughter! Good man
16,000 a year is less than a McDonald’s employee would make. Crazy
This I don't understand. As a former ground safety officer, other than investigating safety accidents, the sole reason for my occupation was to identify safety issues in my area of expertise, then bring those issues to the proper channels for review and change before the accident happens. Which by the way happens rather quickly.
It astounds me that these regional pilots were abused in such a manor that pilots had to travel across an entire continent to perform a job with the safety of their own life and those of many others on a daily bases. And do this dangerous job at such a poor salary they had to sleep on lounge chairs because they can't afford rent??!!
There are so many levels of wrong here, from so many areas of occupation its sickening. I'll start with aviation safety, which by the way is probably the most extensive safety course of all safety departments. It actually took the death of these flights and determined victims families to get something done? And not from the demand of safety??? The federal and state's department of labor, really??? There are clerical clerks that got paid more than the 1st Officer. So, the airlines are an obvious failure. The FAA for not steeping up to the plate and had to be forced to do something. and these are just a few.
This is just criminal.
@misterknight3901 : very well said.
Apparently, it doesn’t astound you that both pilots would have to have been aware of their sleep deprivation, but were willing to risk not only their lives, but the lives of others, for the sake of their poor, paying jobs and the ability to be able to say I’m an airline pilot
Welcome to the FAA, where money comes before safety until someone (usually many) die because of something we've known about for years.
Honestly though, we've known about the wage problem for decades and done next to nothing about it; partially because the FTC, FAA, DOT, DOC, and other agencies/organisations get in the way.
@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeathoh shut up if you were in the same financial situation you’d shut up and do the shame. Shut up
God rest the 50 souls that perished in this tragic crash. But can we please talk about the fact that in 2009 a multi million dollar company paid an employee a salary of $16k/annually to safely transport people around the world. I deliver pizzas for a living and make damn near twice that!! Why wasn't the rules changed to properly accommodate these professionals!? This accident was 100% avoidable, with proper compensation from Continental. This is one of the better examples of travesties caused by American greed.
As a Republican and proud NRA member, I have to point out that your comment is COMMUNIST.
Who are you to determine who gets paid what? We have two LAWS that covers that - the law of supply and demand and the law that business must make as much profit as possible.
Pay pilots more and airline shareholders get less return. More important, executives will not be able to be paid millions a year.
So what kind of world do you want to live in - one where pilots are paid a fair wage considering their responsibilities (Communist), or a world where billionaires and their children make massive profits while sitting by the pools on their private islands and executives receive exponentially increasing multiples of corporate worker pay (Capitalist)?
@@northernbohemianrealist quite possibly the most hilarious response I've ever read.
If your pay is to low, find other work...Don't blame the company you work for...You knew how much you signed up for...
@@clayster2
If you make twice that it's 100% Bullshit you're a delivery driver.
How unacceptable that the pilots could not afford to get a place to stay. As well as the enormous gap in the pay. Shame, really. It needs to change. We can do it to change this!! We are more than capable. APPLY THE PRESSURE.
You should start an airline where you pay pilots 5 millions a year and work 30 hr/week..
@@DynamicSeq there's a huge difference between what you're saying and what Tina is. Also, in the end they ended up spending more money than they would have had the company provided them with accommodations for the night since they lost a plane and had to pay the victims' families.
@@Jerseybytes2 It boils down to, If your job is killing you, quit...
If you don't like the pay, quit...
It's not your boss fault if you don't get enough sleep, it's yours....We don't have slavery, you can just quit...
Airports should build more sleep pods. It’s really a no brainer that they’d be utilized.
Right! Kinda like how surgeons have those sleep areas (assuming Grey's anatomy is accurate). Something so little could help so much.
I can't imagine how anyone can sleep a wink on a plane in flight. 😮
I worked in the Buffalo airport food service during this time.
At that time, we actually thought that we had just fed all these people in our sit down restaurant and then moments later, they were dead.
Didn’t realize it was an arriving flight……which means, when I left for the night I passed by all the people looking to pick up there loved ones
I admire the man who took action in memory of his beautiful daughter and all the passengers on this flight.
I'd say Air France 447 was the worst crash of 2009.
Right.
Americans are worth more
U know your wrecks
A friend of mine was in this AF flight but the flight was overbooked and just before boarding the plane they asked him if he would mind taking the following plane. He agreed and it saved his life.
@@yannick9739 damn
An old friend of mine live around the block from this accident. I am thankful she is alive, but saddened of all who perished…
This episode details the low pay and lack of oversight of the small regional carriers for their pilots. Other episodes appear to detail a lower standard of plane maintenance for these carriers compared the majors.
One of the more fascinating Mayday episodes, as are many of the ones where pilot error is chiefly to blame. I have been searching for it and thought it had been removed; glad to know it is still available here (no matter how riddled with adverts it may be).
I still remember this like yesterday, had the unfortunate task of having to work with the NTSB to provide security footage of the crash.
Firstly, my sincerest most sympathies for all during this tragic loss.shame on the airline for the absurd pay scale
How can NTSB investigators rely on the position of a toggle switch found in wreckage to verify whether something was engaged at the time of the crash? It seems to me that with such a violent impact, SOMETHING would be likely to bump some switches out of the positions they were in prior to impact.
A really violent crash makes it easier, as I understand it -- the impact forces push the different parts of metal together hard enough to leave marks on them, so even if it were flipped later they could see where it was.
@@pfeilspitze Super interesting... I'm glad someone read it and didn't look at it as only being a rhetorical question. Always eager to learn more, thanks!
@@flapjack413 Keep watching more episodes -- that's how I learned it! 🙃 I don't remember the episode numbers, unfortunately, but two instances that come to mind are an ADI where the crash forced the ball into the glass hard enough to leave marks showing the attitude of the plane, and one where the needle in a guage scratched the guage surface, showing the value it had in the crash.
(Like the old mystery novel cliché of the clock that breaks in the struggle, showing what time it happened.)
@@flapjack413 Aha, found it! The United Airlines 585 investigation talks about hydraulic pressure gauges where there's a dent in the faceplate from the needle, so they knew where it was on impact.
Well, even without recovering that equipment, it was a logical conclusion that the pilot did have it in the wrong position.
This documentary is very well done! I'm thankful that steps were taken to make commercial flights even safer.
I dont think they mentioned the fact that most people probably didnt realize they were flying with Colgan Air. Theeir flights were booked with Continnental , a major airline, who then sub contract it to Colgan. Who no one probably ever heard of. I took a regioal flight ftom st louis to Buffalo a few years back. Booked with Delta, but @ the bottom of my itinerary it showed an obscure airline was actually handling the flight. Pretty shady i think.
That is super shady
SHE ONLY MADE 16K A YEAR?!?!?!?
I make make more then that at a grocery store.
I know, that’s insane
I’ll never forget waking up for school that morning and my mom told me to go back to bed school was cancelled… (we lived in Cheektowaga at the time) to this day I have not boarded a plane and I constantly look up when I hear louder then usual plane engines. Such a terrible tragedy
I don't fly either. I used to from Buffalo to Oakland, California.
@@Monkey-fc9nc I am good on the ground too 😭
It sounds like this accident had a serious impact on you, have you thought about talking to a therapist?
@@georgeclayton no really just not fond of being anywhere but land 😭
@@georgeclayton Clarence plane crash for anybody wondering
Not being able to afford a home is an ongoing tragedy.
Exactly, housing should be more affordable
BTW, for anyone who doesn't know this, the REASONS the NTSB spends so much time and energy discovering the cause of the crash are twofold: 1), to prevent it from happening again 2) To determine who has to pay for all the damages. It's either the manufacturer, the airline, the pilot, the airport or, in very rare cases, the state/country. If it's a defective part, it would be the manufacturer's fault; if it was because of, for instance, poor instruction to the pilots then it's the airline's fault; if the pilot did something wrong, it's their fault (they carry insurance for this, BTW); if the tower gives them poor directions (for instance) it would be the airport's fault and if it's because a state or country has certain restrictions or laws they have to abide by that prevent the pilot from flying safely, then it's their fault.
Where was, if there is a faulty part at issue, manufactured?
Why would you assume no one knows this? It's pretty obvious. Be serious.
"They carry insurance for this"
If you think for a second every pilot has/have insurance you are mistaken.
The tower employees are actually hired and paid by NTSB not the actually Airport.
@@michael-4k4000 Thanks for the correction. I did not know. They're paid by the NTSB? Wow. Interesting.
Rebecca only making $16,000 a year while having to be away from her family and sleep on cargo planes is absolutely infuriating. This is totally unacceptable.
that should be criminal. I make more than that creating and selling stock media as a part time side hustle, and that's a million times easier than flying a plane
Important detail the producers left out is that the _sterile cockpit_ rule is during landing and approach below 10,000’, not during the whole flight
And you left out it is also during takeoff and Sully violated that rule
Typically includes everything from the pushback through the post-takeoff checklists when automation is engaged as well. You never know which flight might go badly, so professional behavior and integrity pays off if the plane or its contents have issues. I can't remember which flight it was where they were joking with the flight attendants about it right before they crashed on takeoff. Edit: Delta 1141
@@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath
Sully did not violate the rule.
@@joewas2225 He absolutely did. Is that you, Sully? Read the NTSB report before spouting off.
@GOLDVIOLINbowofdeath have you read the fucking report? It shows that plane was dead without sully and his first officer
I always get nervous during these videos😳
RIP to all victims of the crash😔
I made peace with never flying again. I realize the only things that need to be in the air are birds.
@@angelofmery21 chances of dying in a plane crash are lower than a car crash. so never drive again would be better using your logic
@@angelofmery21ou’re missing out on so many experiences. Your chance of dying in a plane crash are less than being hit by lightning ⚡️ You only live once❤
@@angelofmery21 people who avoid flying aren't necessarily just afraid of dying. Most people realize that cars are statistically a lot more dangerous. It's the manner of death that scares people. The terror that you'd experience in a plane crash, and literally plunging to your death is absolutely unimaginable. People don't die like that in car accidents. The fear of dying in that particular way (falling to your death in an out of control aircraft) is definitely enough to keep some people from flying, even if they know it's unlikely to happen.
That was such a horrible crash!!
I worked within a few miles of where this plane went down. It pretty much crashed into someone's house. A guy with ty he unlikely name of Harry Scull, who was/is a photographer for the Buffalo News, lived nearby and took shots. Harry was also involved in the OJ trial as he had pictures of OJ wearing those "Ugly Ass Shoes".
It's completely antinatural to push down on the control column during a stall, especially when flying low. Lots of training and guts needed in this situation.
really, i would have said the opposite, 1st thing you learn about flying is airspeed is related to pitch and the only way to get out of a stall is to speed up by pushing the nose down. if you are 50' from the ground i get it, but they were on approach and i assume a 1000' or so up.
@@TheSateef My point was that the human's instinctive reaction to a stick shaker is to pull up on the column and hit on the throttle, especially if you see the ground just beneath you. The pilots proved my point.
@@TheSateef his point was your so low you don't want to go lower even though it's what has to be done, Christ read a room
Yes it's counter-intuitive....you don't press the down in an elevator to go up which unfortunately is the opposite concept in stall situations.
@@TheSateef yeah if you're at flight level 300 sure , push down. But when you're approaching a landing and see houses in front of you, even a nose down might be too late to get out of a stall when you're so low
Why not have the air speed indicator make a beeping sound? That would have solved the problem....
They had one, Flight 401, where the altitude warning was middle C and was exactly the same frequency as the plane! That means, something is being canceled out. In that case, the altitude warning...that's why they crashed! Everyone was worried about the light that wasn't working and they sank a perfectly good plane.
If every warning is a beeping sound, how could the pilots tell one warning from another?
i really learn alot from the plane crash videos, they REALLY NEED TO START PAYING THIS Pilots alot, atleast $50,000 to start out.
As a Republican and proud NRA member, I have to point out that your comment is COMMUNIST.
Who are you to determine who gets paid what? We have two LAWS that covers that - the law of supply and demand and the law that business must make as much profit as possible.
Pay pilots more and airline shareholders get less return. More important, executives will not be able to be paid millions a year.
So what kind of world do you want to live in - one where pilots are paid a fair wage considering their responsibilities (Communist), or a world where billionaires and their children make massive profits while sitting by the pools on their private islands and executives receive exponentially increasing multiples of corporate worker pay (Capitalist)?
$16,000 a year, I remember making that as a dishwasher at Perkins at 17 yrs old back in the day....sad
He was a captain on a flight i had a couple months beforehand. We flew right into a thunderhead and went up several thousand feet in severe turbulence. When we landed, they kept the cockpit door closed, probably to not hear it from passengers. He was an incompetent pilot. I never flew Colgan-Continental again and never again a prop plane.
He should have never been a pilot in the first place. I never flew a plane but I know the two most important things to look out for---speed and altitude. Who pull up during a stall?
Prop planes are plenty safe as long as idiots don't fly them.
How did you know he was the Captain on your flight? Did he announce his name over the PA and you just remembered it after the 3407 crash?
This has to be saddest reason for a crash that I've ever seen. Simple rookie mistakes.
I'm so sorry. Prayers sent 🙏
The change made that required pilots to have a minimum of 1,500 hours changed nothing and is ridiculous.
Buffalo has horrible weather. I spent the winter of 2009-2010 there and I won't ever do it again. The great lakes make very unique horrifying snow. It's sideways, whipping, stinging like needles. The winds are stinging and I've never been in anything close to that bad of weather. There are 2 lakes, I don't recommend it if you don't like cold and snow.
I agree with you, I live in the ski country near Buffalo.
This is like the third time I've heard Clint Crookshanks mentioned as an investigator in this series. Ole boy stays busy!
So that guy is the reason I can't get a license to fly a 2500 lb Cessna over empty wheat fields because I have been diagnosed with sleep apnea that does not affect me at all. I am, however, allowed to drive an 80,000 lb truck 3 feet from a family car on the highway (in the next lane over). Tell me, which of those vehicles do you think poses a bigger threat to public safety?
The stick shaker really got the co pilot going
RIP to all the passengers!
Thank you! 😊
@@michael-4k4000 your welcome!
Changed the pay and the demand for pilots etc across the board and it's given everyone a substantial difference in pay time of, fatigue rules etc
.
I worked part time at a grocery store and made more than 16k a year
I remember flying a commuter plane continental years ago and the plane was rocking badly up on landing. I figured it was strong winds..it felt like the pilot was fighting to keep the plane straight. I told the pilot gj when I got off. Seeing how this is farmed off to crappy subcontractors who don't pay their pilots and overwork them...well I'm not flying commuter planes anymore.
I'm a cashier at a grocery store, and I make more than 16,000 a year.
dude i work at a yogurt shop as a manager really not doing much and make well over 50k a year. more then half my shift im sitting in the corner waiting for something to do
One switch caused this? What a tragedy. I’m so glad staff are getting rest and their pay has increased substantially. These pilots were not paying attention to the stall warning. OMG 😱 Tragic.
I was the flight attendant on the the US Airways plane that landed right after that. Our pilots didn't tell us it happened until after we landed but we saw the fire. I started my flight attendant career at Piedmont and I was always told to speak up if I felt uneasy at anytime. I always wondered if any noticed anything before the plane took off.
This is like 5 mi from where I grew up and I still think about it
Its always annoying to me that the Brits had to renarrate the episode when the original was perfectly fine except it was narrated by(gasp) a Canadian.
Another thing that should help is that accompany with those red bars come a small alarm indicating that slow speed is occurring.
These brave lost souls saved many lives in our future because of all the changes made thanks to these people 🙏 ❤️
So sorry for youre loss 😢
They literally worked their pilots to death. and then blame them. 😡🤬
Typical companies
It was such a quiet night because of the snow, too. I found out about it when my son called from the Denny's near the airport around 1:00am where he and a friend were eating because the BBC had called them asking about the crash. (The guy who took the call knew they were from Clarence.) I knew the person who lived across the street from the house that was destroyed. He said it sounded like a tree fell. He couldn't believe it when he looked out the window and saw flames and the tail of the plane sticking out of the house.
Its scary to think that a plane could literally just crash into someone's house like this!
RIP to all of the victims. I feel bad for the pilots because it was obvious that they were exhausted and clearly not intending to cause harm. Airlines should be providing their staff with accommodations.
Pay alone doesn't make for a better pilot. This should not have happened but in a different light than Mayday shows. How can a captain or former flight instructor not know the Basic fundamentals of flying. RIP to all those who were lost.
May God bless their eternal Soul.
I used to like watching Mayday, but this episode is so inaccurate that I can't take this show seriously anymore.
No experience with ice I've never experienced icing or deiced. Yet she could have upgraded to captain. Brilliant major airline CEOs
HE had also failed four or five of his training classes, one of which was...stall recovery.🤦🤦🙄
I can't believe nobody else see that.
Buffalo is my hometown and I remember when this happened. I was 16 years old walking out a Circuit City, then hearing the news soon after. I didnt know of all the details of the pilots and how avoidable this crash was.
the horror, the horror....
"Fatigue warnings". Sounds like a way to "keep them working".
Here's a better idea. How about taking steps to PREVENT fatigue in the first place? Like forcing the airlines (even regional ones) to pay for hotels so they can get proper rest instead of forcing that cost on underpaid pilots who cant afford it. How about that?
Exactly my thoughts. Or at least give them a cost-of-living stipend because a lot of Airline bases are in the most expensive cities including; New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, etc. They all a very high cost of living expensive compared to wherea lot of Airline Personnel live so they can't afford apartments or houses in those bases cities. At least pay them enough so that they can afford a hotel if they decide to commute in *or* pay them enough so they can afford to rent an apartment in these expensive base cities.
The random edits are something else
The control column suddenly starts to shake. It’s a warning that the plane is about to stall. I watch a lot of videos did they teach what to do when plane stall?
you learn that on your first flying lesson and practice on pretty much every flight when training
I understand that every country in the world except for the USA uses a metric system , but shows that don’t give measurement equivalents are so frustrating
I remember when this happened. I remember hearing specifically about this girl and I was Twenty-One years-old and I remember it was so sad and at the time they didn't say if everyone died or not so I was hoping that somehow she lives but then I saw the flames and everything and I was like wow nevermind. that sucks
Hearing specifically about which girl?
@@jamesstreet228 the girl Elise that they talk about in the video. I remember the news talking about her coming to read at her niece's school or something like that. At the time they didn't give many details so I was just thinking hopefully she made it. But they showed the wreckage and such. It's crazy the details I remember of that night.
@@thickerconstrictor9037 That's horrible my friend. I can't imagine knowing someone who went down in a plane crash. What a horrific death that would be.
He didn't know her.
I remember THIS IT WAS A SAD DAY MAN RIP
Airlines should be made accountable for pilot fatigue. These two had to fly long distance for a short commute.. Didn't the airlines factor in those long flights they took just to get to N.J. ??????? Why do these commuter plane pilots earn so little ??? It should be fewer hours and higher salary. They should not have been old this, they should have known this. It's only logical. WHERE WAS THE MONEY GOING instead of to the pilots ???? THAT is the question. I DON'T FLY ANYMORE.
16,000 is $7.69 per hour. Based upon a 40 hr work week 🤯
The pilot was so sleepy she should have stayed home
In 2009, a full time minimum wage worker made $15,121. If they burned your fries because they were sleepy you don’t die. They probably get better sleep anyway. $16k isn’t nearly enough pay for a pilot.
And I doubt someone making fries would have such a long (in distance and time) commute to work...
Appreciate the videos but as I live in the state I'm right between two airports. Ya, I'm not going to sleep too well everytime I hear a plane go by. I've heard this one,very tragic and scary.
I've lived fairly near/between two busy airports, ORD and MDW for half a century. Still alive.
5:35 When you see that pilot meter red dots on speed indicate it is stalling also it is turning rapidly. That is a spin stall and hard to recover from.