EDIT: Alright, let's talk about Edgeworth. I'm surprised this has come up so often, I thought the video placed enough emphasis on what changed for this alternate timeline's Edgeworth that everyone would understand, but I guess I should've been clearer. Maybe added a more blatant reveal to the Turnabout Goodbyes conversation. Regardless, it's clear that a good chunk of viewers did not understand his arc in this timeline, and that's my bad, so let me clear it up. The Turnabout Goodbyes conversation, and the Edgeworth and von Karma conversation near the start of the video establish that Edgeworth losing Turnabout Beginnings caused von Karma to reinforce his training, the von Karma creed of perfection and win record obsessed lunacy, to ensure that Edgeworth never lost again. This included driving home the forgery. He really grinded all of that into Edgeworth's head, constantly calling attention to his first failure, causing Edgeworth to never truly be content, to constantly be trying to prove that he was beyond that failure, and would not disappoint the von Karma name. von Karma does this because he doesn't care about skill, he only cares about maintaining the von Karma name's perfect record, and he will do that at all costs. In canon, he didn't have to do anything, Turnabout Beginnings was a stalemate, and Edgeworth was skilled enough that he never lost without having to resort to forgery. But here, Edgeworth lost Turnabout Beginnings, and von Karma made sure that it didn't happen again by making Edgeworth forge evidence, and be as ruthless as von Karma himself. After von Karma betrays him in Turnabout Goodbyes, Edgeworth finally reflects on everything that he did under von Karma's influence, and feels immense guilt and regret, and stubbornly believes that he deserves to face some sort of punishment for his actions, so he refuses to let Phoenix defend him, and takes the guilty verdict. Edgeworth, in canon, did NOT forge evidence. Rise From The Ashes makes that clear. But in this alternate timeline, he did. He forged a LOT of evidence. And that drastically alters his timeline and mental state across the series. Original Comment: Oops, missed the premiere, but thanks to everybody who showed up. Let's all take a moment to thank Winston Payne for being an absolute MVP in this video. At the end of the video, I mentioned the original draft. Here are some things that changed from that. - Edgeworth allowed Phoenix to defend him in Turnabout Goodbyes, however, he lost the case without Maya's help. - Mia took Ron DeLite's case and won. I changed that in the final video, seeing as how Mia doesn't have that same sort of undying faith in her clients that Phoenix has. That's also why she acts the way she does in Farewell, My Turnabout, but I couldn't push that one too far without ending up with Mia letting Maya die, which she obviously wouldn't do. - Phoenix won Recipe For Turnabout. In the final video, I realized there were many factors as to why he couldn't, such as no Magatama, and no Maya. - Mia tried to cross Dusky Bridge and fell, like Phoenix did, but did not survive the fall due to her not having Phoenix's insane luck. Changed this because Mia doesn't seem that crazy. - The reason for Phoenix not taking the Enigmar trial was different. It said that Phoenix wasn't considered for the trial, which felt weird in retrospect, as AJ seemed to imply that Phoenix went to Zak. So I made Phoenix decide not to go instead. - Apollo quit law work, rather than continuing corrupt. Changed this once I realized that, without idolizing Phoenix, he probably wouldn't have the same level of integrity. - Phoenix took the AJ cases rather than Apollo. - Sasha DID go to Phoenix, as in the draft, he still cross examined the parrot. - Clay's murder was taken on by an outsider, not Apollo.a is making
I wonder if Ron would get accused of murder, and if he did, would Mia defend him? I think Mia would defend him by thinking like: "He may be a thief, but not a murderer."
@@korii22 That's possible, I just kind of assumed that Ron would get found guilty of the robbery, and thus Luke's plan to use his guilty verdict as an alibi for the murder would fall apart and he'd get found guilty for that.
Winston Payne becoming a reoccurring character because every other rival prosecutor is gone so he’s there by default is definitely the best part of this.
Wait, why's Franziska gone? Sure, Manfred wasn't defeated, but I assume she'd still want to fight Mia after she humiliated her brother. Franziska does care for Edgeworth after all.
The creator did phoenix dirty tbh.. I doubt channeling mia is necessary for phoenix to win every case. He is very smart by default and in bridge to the turnabout, he already proved that he can still win without mia's help. Plus phoenix did decently in the first game without the magatama. Magatama is just a lie detector and i'm sure phoenix can learn the truth without it.
@@NexilithNocturne And to use an in-game example, the little bit of information necessary to win Turnabout Sisters is something player learns at the very beginning of the investigation.
Didn’t expect it to be a depressing timeline, when you take into accounts of what could and could not happen it really changes the entire perspective of it. On the bright side at least Payne had his moments
That was really interesting! Seeing this alternative timeline really brings to light how much worse everything could have gone. I really liked the character interactions in this, especially the Edgeworth stuff.
Idea: a couple years after edgeworth's execution. a girl with a red and blue dress, a key in her hair and a badge of two wings visits his grave. fishes in her bag for a few moments before presenting a cravot and lays it on the grave before saying "thanks for letting be barrow this. it was nice of you" also, another idea: instead of joining the fey and co law offices Phoenix instead joins the Edgeworth law offices, you know, the one ran by rayman sheilds.
2 things: 1. GET THAT WEIRD WINSTON VON KARMA FUSION OUT OF HERE- 2. The entire world became depressing because some guy didn’t take a swig of a bottle.
Well... 3 things I have to say 1.Finally someone who gives Payne the respect he deserves. Everyone else just makes him an incompetent idiot 2.You made Phoenix too bad. I think he still could become an above average attorney. 3.Von Karma should be dead or should have stopped working before that case where he appeared again.
2. Phoenix is still an Ace Attorney, the odds are just stacked against him. No matter how much skill he has, he can't exactly beat Edgeworth literally forging evidence, or being physically unable to make Mr. Kudo talk to him without having sex appeal. 3. That's a possibility, yes, but it's also possible that he'd still be alive and prosecuting. It's a fictional world with spirit mediums, don't think too hard about von Karma's age. 4. Phoenix got pretty far, and only fell because the planks gave out under him. It's possible that Dahlia, weighing a lot less than Phoenix, would've been able to cross without causing the planks to fall. 5. I mean. The Judge could've called his phone, assuming the old man even HAS a cell phone. I just thought it was funnier to have Payne do it. Doesn't really change anything if the Judge called instead.
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 I'd say that having Payne do it actually kind of adds to his character arc in this thing, turning from a prosecutor who only calls about victory to one who fights for the truth, ending when he put his own safety aside in 2-4 to help Mia find her sister.
Holy shit, this is incredible work. You've earned a sub from me, you're super underrated. Payne's redemption arc may have been my favourite part, though I feel like he'd have had a bit more hubris when Mia thanked him, all like: "H-huh? W-well, young lady - of course! I would do anything to help the innocent, ho ho ho..."
Thank you, I loved having Payne help out with Farewell My Turnabout a lot. It was great to play around with him in such a different scenario from his usual. In retrospect, I think you might be right about Payne's hubris, (and by the way, that little bit of dialogue was very in character.) but my perspective when writing the scene was that Payne was both exhausted from the trial, and not used to receiving praise, thus his very awkward "Well... You're welcome." I do think I could've done that scene better though, and incorporating dialogue along the lines of what you used as an example would've worked perfectly.
7:06 PAYNE: "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" JUDGE: "Erm...Mister Payne? What is that ridiculous outfit you have on?" PAYNE: "Oh, well, I, uh..." JUDGE: "It's that Franziska lady's outfit, isn't it?" FRANZISKA: "His usual suit was dirty, Your Honor, and he had no way of getting it ready for today's trial. Luckily, I always have multiple prosecutor outfits for just such an occasion...though I never thought I'd ever lend one to *Winston Payne,* of all people." JUDGE: "Very well, Mister Payne. Just...warn me in advance the next time something like this happens." PAYNE: "Yes, Your Honor."
For Lana's trial, Manfred Von Karma would probably have been the one prosecuting since I'm pretty sure he was the high prosecutor before Edgeworth. Interesting take. IDK about Mia winning all those cases easily while Phoenix loses a bunch(due to small reasons such as lack of feminine charm), I always thought of Phoenix as an expansion of Mia, rather than a lesser copy.
Very interesting alternative storyline, I really liked seeing what could or couldn't happen especially with Mia and Maya together. Although if there's an alternative, slightly more positive outcome? I feel maybe the Edgeworth case can be where Phoenix and Mia meet, Mia seeing the "demon prosecutor" be arrested for a murder trial, especially since she was the one who won the case against him and could see the spiral through news sources. With Phoenix still being a rookie but with determination Mia might take him under his wing for the agency and together they become an unstoppable defense team. Just an idea for some positivity, but in truth I might like this more visceral, realistic win rate of Phoenix. It's also pretty funny that without Maya (and much earlier on, Dahlia) in his life he would never be accused of murder lol
Title of the Video: *What if Mai won the Turnabout Beginnigns?* Me: Oh! This could be interesting. Video: **Ends** Me: I have crippling depression now...
i mean bridge to the turnabout’s original case was meant to have every member of the fey clan die except maya so it is kinda accurate that dahlia kills everybody i guess
Thoughts about Turnabout Revolution - This case have no chance to happen both in USA and Khura'in. Reasons being: no Maya and no started revolution(bc no Phoenix in Khura'in bc no Maya). Details below(ofc spoilers) . . . . . . I mean, original case 3 leads directly to kidnapping Maya because of her power. Later she gets rescued by Dhurke, who gets shot by Inga, and his last wish was Maya channeling him in States to see Apollo again. All of this cannot happen in this timeline. USA murder also cannot happen, because no Datz leaving suitcase, which became murder weapon. But if Paul finds another weapon, this murder remain unsolved because Apollo/Kristoph probably will defend Paul in court, if it will come to that, and beat Phoenix/Shields/Grossberg/insert your lawyer here.
When Diego tried to stop Redd White, I expect it to turn out like in DebastianSebeste's video depicting a similar scenario, but in hindsight it makes sense it didn't; in that video, all previous events are like in canon, except Godot recovers from his coma early, so White simply _couldn't_ have expected him to intervene. Whereas in this scenario, he _knows_ Diego will be there, so of course he would think to bring his own weapon. (Then again, maybe not necessarily; this _is_ the same guy who proved to be utterly incompetent by trying to testify against Phoenix, so who's to say he wouldn't also be incompetent enough to show up unprepared to Mia's office? I understand you wanted to write a grim timeline, though).
I didn't necessarily want to write a grim timeline. That's just how I thought things would go in this timeline. Redd White being really stupid in court is one thing, but outside of court, he is certainly not incompetent. It takes some skill and smarts to successfully blackmail as many people as he did and have them all under his control. I think he's at least at the level where he would know he couldn't murder two people with his bare hands.
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 Thinking of it, I believe I'm inclined to agree with you. He seems like the sort that wouldn't _normally_ mess up that badly. His blunders would come more from either pride, or simply miscalculations, rather than failing to think things through entirely, and would thus mostly be smaller oversights as opposed to big screw-ups. The testifying thing, he probably put no effort into preparing his testimony simply because he had rigged the situation so heavily against Phoenix already, and didn't expect him to 1) opt to represent himself; 2) _actually do a good job of it,_ since he was still a rookie. (Plus, it took Mia to do him in anyway). Even his not bringing a weapon in the canon scenario could qualify. Maybe he really just expected to be able to stab or bludgeon her with the nearest object (which turned out to be the Thinker), but it was still not a very good plan, even if it worked. A few things could have happened differently to where Mia might have either gotten away or fought him off. But if he had to account for _two_ people, yes, that'd definitely get him making sure to show up armed.
One thing I would consider is that Raymond Shields could be Phoenix mentor. Considering he would become an attorney to find Miles Edgeworth, the logicql way to do sonwould be to join Gregory attorneys office. He would not be that bad as an attorney that way, and considering how Gregory used to fight against the corrupted Manfred Von Karma, i'm pretty sure he could be almost as good as he was.
I'll tell you though Doug Swallow would be alive Phoenix would become an artist (or smth else) Diego Armando wouldn't be poisoned Everything would went different if I'd say so Oh, and ofc the Edgeworth would continue his own ways I didn't watch the video yet, so that's my predictions
very dark stuff. i think everyone would agree that if mia won, everything would be better, but you are showing us a different viewpoint where things could go much worse.
So basically if Phoenix never met Mia he would be a bad attorney and keep getting the "gulity" verdicts. Whoever that "Mentor" was for Phoenix must be so bad with their job.
Hello im late to this BUT, i think in this timeline phoenix and mia could've still met eachother through the 1-3 as maya being a huge fan of the steel samurai wouldve heard about will power's sudden arrest and ask mia help with investigating the case, while at the same time phoenix was called by powers himself because he beat winston payne so the two could have met in this timeline and phoenix would be able to become an above average attorney
My only complaint is why is Maya on trial in 1-2? I feel like it should have been Mia since she would logically be the last person seen with Diego. There's no way Maya could have discovered his body if Mia was there to stop her. But there's also the fact that Mia would have been a witness. So if she's both the defendant and the only witness besides April May, then she might not have been able to say, defend herself. She might have ended up calling Grossberg, getting rejected, and defended by a random lawyer
Godot tells Mia to, quote, "get out of here!" and then the screen fades to black. Mia ran out of the building, and away from the scene, just as told. I don't think you'd be running back into a building with an active shooter. Maya on the other hand, just like in canon, has no clue what in the world happened, and shows up to the scene, finding Diego dead, just in time for the cops to show up and arrest her.
Wait, why would Juniper Woods have been accused during Turnabout Countdown? I figured without her reconnecting with Athena and meeting Apollo, she wouldn't have been there during the Cosmic Turnabout, ruling her out as a suspect. Also, why did Maya Fey get accused of killing Diego?
I don't agree with phoenix continuously getting guilty verdict because even without mia's help he would have found a way to win. He has already proven it in bridge to the turnabout. He doesn't need a magatama or maya's channeling to win a case.
I think what the author is aiming here is that: as good as Phoenix is GOING TO BE, in the first game he's still a rookie. Without Mia's guidance and Maya's support to win his first few cases, the few first losses he got hit him hard. Without winning the tight cases in the first game, he never developed any decent reputation or experience he's shown in later games. Remember, Phoenix's best trait is never giving up in tight situations. Without confidence Mia/Maya/Pearl/wins he got in the OG timeline, he'd easily think he'd lose the case and never bothered to take them. Hence, in this timeline he's just a run-of-the-mill lawyer, not a legendary rookie.
@@garrykaspari2588Why do we even have to assume that he would lose, though? Just because he didn't have Mia doesn't mean he would be a run-of-the-mill lawyer. My point was that I disagree with phoenix losing. He easily won the first case, and i'm pretty sure that edgeworth would still help wright in turnabout samurai because he was saddled with unnecessary feelings when meeting wright. Also, phoenix would still be stubborn about saving edgeworth and convince him in turnabout goodbyes, it's dumb how easily he gave up in the video. He won the damon gant case without any help in the first game, which alone proves that he is smarter than the creator of the video thinks. I don't believe that phoenix is so mentally weak to the point he gave up after some losses. Like you said, He is determined about saving those who are in tough situations, that is his main motivation and speciality. It has been his motivation since childhood so i don't believe he wouldn't bother taking cases just because he lost few times.
@@Nexylve Phoenix is incredibly smart and incredibly mentally strong. This is a fact, and one that I support wholeheartedly. Again, as I've said a lot in the comments here, the problem is absolutely NOTHING on Phoenix's end. Him losing is on absolutely no fault of his own, at all. It is entirely on the circumstances. Anytime he has the physical capability to, he does in this video, such as The First Turnabout, and The Lost Turnabout. Edgeworth would NOT help Phoenix in Turnabout Samurai, due to his further von Karma training and influence, and he would not accept Phoenix's help in Turnabout Goodbyes even if Phoenix continued to try to convince him because of his guilt over all the forgeries. Again, this is not on Phoenix's shoulders. A big part of Phoenix's motivation in becoming a Defense Attorney was saving Edgeworth. And he failed. His childhood friend who he tried so hard to save is dead. That is a very valid reason for him to fall into a funk and not take several cases. In canon, he stops taking cases for awhile leading up to Rise From The Ashes simply because Maya went back to Kurain. That is a way less valid reason than the death of your childhood friend, a death that you could delude yourself into believing was your fault. Yet he does it in canon. You can argue that there may be other ways Phoenix could get around Psyche Locks or Spirit Channeling, but those aren't really supported by canon. They never say there's some other way to get some of the information hidden behind Psyche Locks. Phoenix could hypothetically go through the sequence without the Magatama showing him Psyche Locks and just get the information without any dramatics, but Spirit Channeling places him at a complete dead end. Spirit Channeling is not usually REQUIRED in the games, but if it is, there's no physical way around that. If you need to channel a dead person, there's not much way to replace that.
Mia isn't exactly a fighter, and Dahlia had both a weapon, and the element of surprise. ...Franziska not reappearing, in hindsight, is a bit of an oversight. My reasoning was that, since Phoenix never beat Edgeworth, she had no reason to return to get revenge... forgetting that Mia beat Edgeworth in this timeline.
Actually, technically, Franziska says that she wanted to get revenge on Edgeworth by beating the one person that he couldn't, not revenge on the person who beat him. Can't exactly get revenge on Edgeworth if he's been executed for a murder, so, her not appearing still works.
Hmm, I guess the dark age of the law would still happen, as Kristoph only framed Phoenix in retaliation for replacing him, meaning the replacement lawyer is still tricked into presenting forged evidence. And Blackquill still confesses to murder, too.
This would actually be a great alternate history story for Ace Attorney, Mia defends her sister instead of Phoenix, Mr. White never murdering Mia and Mr. Armando still alive after Mia got a chance to win Turnabout Beginnings (that’s not before being murdered by Redd White of Bluecorp), but one thing would have to change, Phoenix still gets convicted for murder, which Phoenix would still get to be mentored by Mia, but this time with Armando there too.
11:34 This is a True Jumpscare. 11:45 the Fallen Phoenix Wright. 14:34 It's Turnabout Time Travel has the Time Machine Someone Sacrifices, To Mia Fey Never Wins the First Case.
I beg to differ about the part where Pearl is charged for the murders of Mia and Maya cause how the plan was supposed is both get killed and Iris is the who gets charged for the killings
Well the plan was to get Pearl to be the Fey Clan Master. So I guess Mia and Maya being killed would be included. Iris would still get guilty because of Bikini's eyewitness testimony.
@ZoomReverseFlash Around this time Bikini would be done by taking her bath and she could potentially see the murder and since Dahlia and Iris are twins she would think iris is the culprit
@@mrmimeisfunny Bikini sees Dahlia in Pearl's body and mistakes her for Iris. She calls the police. The police show up and find Iris, who is completely clean, and then they find Pearl, covered in blood, and crying about how someone killed her family in her body. Bikini's testimony is out the window, the child covered in blood is far more guilty than what Bikini thought she saw in the dark of night.
I do not think Von Karma would be Alive for UR-1 case considering its like 13-15 years since events of the first game and He was Old during first game. So I think he's died or Retired.
DL-6 retrial has been dated to 2016, and UR-1 retrial, 2027. Von Karma was 65 in the former, so he should be 76 in the latter, and considering his "way" of prosecution, he's either dead by then, or still prosecuting. I just don't see him retiring.
Pearl going to jail is a bit weird since Morgan's plan was to make her the new master of the Kurain clan, blaming the murders on Iris would've been a more logical end.
Even if Morgan blamed the murders on Iris, which she probably did, it wouldn't have mattered. The police would show up, find a bloody child with a weapon, who, based on how Maya reacted in Reunion & Turnabout, might be freaking out over someone killing in her body, and Iris who would be clean as a whistle, and go "Yeah that woman who wasn't even here is crazy, Iris is clean, let's arrest the obviously murderer bloody child"
My leading theory (no matter the timeline) is that due to Dahlia's absolute hate towards her family, even though the plan likely involved Iris to take the fall (which would've been easy to do due to them being twins), Dahlia would go on and betray Morgan (as she was a horrible mother) by shifting the blame onto Pearl, dealing a leathal blow to not only Morgan, but with Mia, Maya AND Pearl gone, the entire Fey Clan.
In this universe, Turnabout Memories dosent happen, but actually, it does because in the anime it reveals that Iris dressed as Dahlia and was the one who killed Doug Swallow, so it would happen, however Bridge To Turnabout would be different bc Iris would be in prison.
Dahlia is dead or arrested due to her first crime so she would never had poisoned Diego which led to her meeting Phoenix and she would never had met Doug Swallow. and Iris would be at Hazakura temple probably
Dahlia crossing the bridge had me confused, but of course Dahlia would have no qualms crossing a burning bridge if it's not her body at risk! That does get me wondering, though. Does the weight of the medium remain the same during channeling?
One oddity of this is, if Dahlia only killed Valerie in this timeline, would she have been executed in order to carry out the murders in BTTT? With just one murder to her name she may have simply been jailed for a long time. That said, Morgan did suggest she might kill her, so maybe that's what happened there.
Dahlia can't poison anybody if she's in prison. Nor would Diego have any reason to track her down to question her, since she never escaped Turnabout Beginnings.
Edgeworth didn't know the evidence was forged. Lana Skye and Damon Gant were the ones forging the evidence. But Edgeworth did bail him out in Will Powers' case. Maybe Mia getting Redd White to confess was enough to soften him up so he would do that again. Then Edgeworth asks for Mia to defend him and Phoenix barges in to join the defense team and joins Fey law offices, winning the case and defeating Von Karma. He doesn't really have much of a reason to go to Kurain so he probably just holds the fort during Reunion and Turnabout. Von Karma Jr. still comes to Japanifornia from Germarica and gets a grudge against Fey for ruining her family name. Phoenix successfully defends Maggey Byrde after Mia goes to fetch the con artist list. And then the rest of the games go approximately the same way.
I think you missed the point entirely. In this timeline Edgeworth forged evidence himself, knowingly, because Manfred further enforced the von Karma ways on Edgeworth in response to him losing Turnabout Beginnings, so that he would never lose again, and taught Edgeworth to forge evidence. From there, I think the Turnabout Goodbyes scene should've explained Edgeworth's feelings well enough. He would *never* ask Phoenix, or especially Mia (who wouldn't defend him anyways due to his reputation, especially in this universe. She has no frame of reference to believe that he's a good guy like Phoenix does) to defend him under the circumstances. He sent many, so many innocent people to get executed using forged evidence. He believes that he deserves to be declared guilty for what he's done. Just look at how he reacted to *unknowingly* using forged evidence in Rise From The Ashes. His reaction to what he's knowingly done in this timeline would be far more severe.
Not really. I doubt channeling mia is necessary for phoenix to win every case. He is very smart by default and in bridge to the turnabout, he already proved that he can still win without mia's help. Plus phoenix did decently in the first game without the magatama. Magatama is just a lie detector and i'm sure phoenix can learn the truth without it. Phoenix is not entirely dependent on maya, but the game really forces it for some reason.
@@NexilithNocturne I agree, I do think Phoenix is a smart lawyer in his own right, and honestly, I think that Maya was just forced into scenes that made her important so the players would remember she’s a thing. Without those scenes, she’ll just be another Trucy from DD As for the Magatama, that was just forced in as a new gameplay gimmick, it didn’t serve that much of a purpose outside of that. If Phoenix actually used it, he could easily solve cases by asking people, “Did you kill the victim?” Also, just for clarification, this comment was regarding this video, not the game itself. However I do enjoy a good fun discussion about topics I’m passionate about such as this
@@CLTurtle Oh. I totally misunderstood that. I thought you were talking about the games. I'm actually glad that they made mia a recurring character, but i also think that they overdid it. The magatama did make a good gameplay mechanic and It makes sense for it to be in every case. It is definitely fun to discuss topics like this.
If that's the case. Basically, Phoenix would still try to become a lawyer but not met Mia (Maybe) and other than that Phoenix will no longer be the main character and he will be working to a different Law Office, and Mia would remain as the main character through the entire trilogy (Fanon)
Doesn't Dalhia poisonned Diego at the beginning that cause a coma for 5 years ? In any case, Diego would be poisonned anyways, but he would'nt become a prosecutor because Phoenix Wright wasn't in the Redd White case and Mia Fey would never met Phoenix, so maybe Diego after his coma would defend pearl Fey at the final case of T&T even if he doesn't see the color red on white ? And if that's it then he wouldn't help for Mia in the 2nd case of AA:PW and Mia would be dead, and Maya wouldn't be kidnapped because she would never met Will Powers and Phoenix Wright. by the way that a great video I loved it !
1:50. I don't really get why Armando died. Maybe original Mia Fey wasn't a fighter but Armando/Godot is one of the strongest characters in AA. Physicaly (given his hight, muscles, throwing cups and all). And White.....I doubt that he is strong enough to kill Diego. That's my opinion. Maybe, I am underestimating him.
Also, lemme fix the plotholes real quick. 1. [Not really a plothole] Phoenix's mentor could be ANYONE! Grossberg, Mia & Diego, Robert Hammond, Kristoph Gavin, or even Aristotle Means! However, Winston Payne would be the most likely mentor considering he "taught Phoenix everything he knows." 2. Redd White does NOT carry a gun. He could've killed Mia/Diego, but it's more likely that Diego would beat Redd White in a fight. There would be no trial of Maya Fey becase Diego killed in self defense. 3. Edgeworth still helps Phoenix at the end of Turnabout Samurai, so the verdict is unchanged. 4. Phoenix still beats Von Karma because this is one of the only cases where Phoenix never needed Mia's help. Yes, it is a vision of Mia who tells him not to think normal, but crazy, but that could be ANY mentor. Phoenix himself could've come up with this. The virdict is not guilty. 5. Edgeworth would still be the prosecutor of Farewell my Turnabout, because he is still alive. 6. Diego would still be alive, so Bridge to Turnabout would be the same. 7. Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies happen like normal. 8. Mia would be the master of the Kurian Channeling Technique, so she would the defendant in Rite of Turnabout instead of Maya. She would be defending herself. 9. Apollo would be fighting Mia instead of Phoenix in Turnabout Revolution. Everything else just happens as normal. So yeah, a few weird changes, but not much really happens.
Check the pinned comment. The Edgeworth thing has come up so many times now that I have updated it to explain Edgeworth's altered timeline. In regards to the other stuff, I really only have two other things to add. Redd doesn't carry a gun in canon, because he was going in to kill one lone woman. In this altered timeline, he is going in knowing that he is going to be up against two people, one of which is a man who is physically stronger than him. So he brings a proper weapon for the job. He can't be THAT incompetent to not bring a proper weapon for a 2v1 confrontation if he managed to blackmail the courts. Mia would NEVER be the Master of the Kurain Channeling Technique, under any circumstances. Her entire motivation for leaving Kurain in canon is because she wanted to escape the constant fighting over who the Master would be, and did not want anything like that to cause a strain on her relationship with Maya. She specifically abandoned her position as heir of the title to go become a lawyer and not deal with the village drama, and I highly doubt leaving her sister behind in the care of her highly dubious Aunt was a decision that Mia made lightly. I cannot see any timeline where Mia becomes the Master.
I gotcha. Personally, I think Redd White IS that stupid, he could've blackmailed Mia with the information that "Mia is related to a fraud", along with the fact that Redd White isn't exactly afraid of hiding his evil, but we all have our opinions. As for the Kurian thing, that clears things up.@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837
For number 4, pheonix would've lost cuz he never basically adopted maya, and she never would've gotten the crucial bullet from her tackling karma in the evidence locker
@cheese0827 I mean... Phoenix could've tackled Von Karma, but to be fair... Maya wouldn't be there to sacrifice herself to be held Contempt of Court. MAYBE Phoenix would do it instead, and Larry Butz will have to bail him out of jail, but I highly doubt that. I do agree that Case 4 would be harder if not impossible without the help of Maya.
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EDIT: Alright, let's talk about Edgeworth. I'm surprised this has come up so often, I thought the video placed enough emphasis on what changed for this alternate timeline's Edgeworth that everyone would understand, but I guess I should've been clearer. Maybe added a more blatant reveal to the Turnabout Goodbyes conversation. Regardless, it's clear that a good chunk of viewers did not understand his arc in this timeline, and that's my bad, so let me clear it up.
The Turnabout Goodbyes conversation, and the Edgeworth and von Karma conversation near the start of the video establish that Edgeworth losing Turnabout Beginnings caused von Karma to reinforce his training, the von Karma creed of perfection and win record obsessed lunacy, to ensure that Edgeworth never lost again. This included driving home the forgery. He really grinded all of that into Edgeworth's head, constantly calling attention to his first failure, causing Edgeworth to never truly be content, to constantly be trying to prove that he was beyond that failure, and would not disappoint the von Karma name.
von Karma does this because he doesn't care about skill, he only cares about maintaining the von Karma name's perfect record, and he will do that at all costs. In canon, he didn't have to do anything, Turnabout Beginnings was a stalemate, and Edgeworth was skilled enough that he never lost without having to resort to forgery. But here, Edgeworth lost Turnabout Beginnings, and von Karma made sure that it didn't happen again by making Edgeworth forge evidence, and be as ruthless as von Karma himself.
After von Karma betrays him in Turnabout Goodbyes, Edgeworth finally reflects on everything that he did under von Karma's influence, and feels immense guilt and regret, and stubbornly believes that he deserves to face some sort of punishment for his actions, so he refuses to let Phoenix defend him, and takes the guilty verdict.
Edgeworth, in canon, did NOT forge evidence. Rise From The Ashes makes that clear. But in this alternate timeline, he did. He forged a LOT of evidence. And that drastically alters his timeline and mental state across the series.
Original Comment:
Oops, missed the premiere, but thanks to everybody who showed up.
Let's all take a moment to thank Winston Payne for being an absolute MVP in this video.
At the end of the video, I mentioned the original draft. Here are some things that changed from that.
- Edgeworth allowed Phoenix to defend him in Turnabout Goodbyes, however, he lost the case without Maya's help.
- Mia took Ron DeLite's case and won. I changed that in the final video, seeing as how Mia doesn't have that same sort of undying faith in her clients that Phoenix has. That's also why she acts the way she does in Farewell, My Turnabout, but I couldn't push that one too far without ending up with Mia letting Maya die, which she obviously wouldn't do.
- Phoenix won Recipe For Turnabout. In the final video, I realized there were many factors as to why he couldn't, such as no Magatama, and no Maya.
- Mia tried to cross Dusky Bridge and fell, like Phoenix did, but did not survive the fall due to her not having Phoenix's insane luck. Changed this because Mia doesn't seem that crazy.
- The reason for Phoenix not taking the Enigmar trial was different. It said that Phoenix wasn't considered for the trial, which felt weird in retrospect, as AJ seemed to imply that Phoenix went to Zak. So I made Phoenix decide not to go instead.
- Apollo quit law work, rather than continuing corrupt. Changed this once I realized that, without idolizing Phoenix, he probably wouldn't have the same level of integrity.
- Phoenix took the AJ cases rather than Apollo.
- Sasha DID go to Phoenix, as in the draft, he still cross examined the parrot.
- Clay's murder was taken on by an outsider, not Apollo.a is making
Not sure why a couple Guilty/Not Guilty text didn't show up despite the sound. That's so weird.
@@markvd1008 I don't know either, that's a fairly common issue with Objection.lol though, weirdly enough. Nothing I can do about it.
You mean Franzistan Payne (Coz Winston Payne in Franziska's costume or maybe...
NVM
I wonder if Ron would get accused of murder, and if he did, would Mia defend him?
I think Mia would defend him by thinking like: "He may be a thief, but not a murderer."
@@korii22 That's possible, I just kind of assumed that Ron would get found guilty of the robbery, and thus Luke's plan to use his guilty verdict as an alibi for the murder would fall apart and he'd get found guilty for that.
Winston Payne becoming a reoccurring character because every other rival prosecutor is gone so he’s there by default is definitely the best part of this.
Wait, why's Franziska gone? Sure, Manfred wasn't defeated, but I assume she'd still want to fight Mia after she humiliated her brother. Franziska does care for Edgeworth after all.
@@theoverseer1775she said she came from Germany for one reason: revenge. Specifically on Phoenix for imprisoning Manfred von Karma.
@@theoverseer1775 Franziska isn't gone, rather she never came in the first place
@@mightythearmiddilo but wasn't that a lie, and she actually wanted to defeat phoenix to prove she's better than edgeworth?
@pef_v6107 yeah thats why she came to the US. Not for her father
In this timeline, Phoenix is kinda the Winston Payne for Defense Attorneys lol
he was saved a lot of times when he should've lost, this is the regular destiny
Or a normal Japanese defense attorney.
And Payne's the new Edgeworth.
The creator did phoenix dirty tbh.. I doubt channeling mia is necessary for phoenix to win every case. He is very smart by default and in bridge to the turnabout, he already proved that he can still win without mia's help. Plus phoenix did decently in the first game without the magatama. Magatama is just a lie detector and i'm sure phoenix can learn the truth without it.
@@NexilithNocturne And to use an in-game example, the little bit of information necessary to win Turnabout Sisters is something player learns at the very beginning of the investigation.
Didn’t expect it to be a depressing timeline, when you take into accounts of what could and could not happen it really changes the entire perspective of it.
On the bright side at least Payne had his moments
payne in a dress
..........and the bright side is?
This is actually a very good lesson. No matter how tragic a past event may be, it probably would be a lot worse if it didn’t happen.
I wouldn't say probably. I would say maybe.
Canon event
...nah... For every bad interpretation, theres a good one, theres just so many what ifs to consider
7:06 OH GOD WHAT IS THAT CURSED THING
Payne why did you put that on
That was really interesting! Seeing this alternative timeline really brings to light how much worse everything could have gone. I really liked the character interactions in this, especially the Edgeworth stuff.
Idea: a couple years after edgeworth's execution. a girl with a red and blue dress, a key in her hair and a badge of two wings visits his grave. fishes in her bag for a few moments before presenting a cravot and lays it on the grave before saying "thanks for letting be barrow this. it was nice of you"
also, another idea: instead of joining the fey and co law offices Phoenix instead joins the Edgeworth law offices, you know, the one ran by rayman sheilds.
so that's why terry fawles killed himself, he saw this future and sacrificed himself for the greater good.
I guess this really shows how much Mia Fey was living through Phoenix Wright
Winston Payne having to prosecute Rise from the Ashes is hilarious actually but my man Powers deserved better
2 things:
1. GET THAT WEIRD WINSTON VON KARMA FUSION OUT OF HERE-
2. The entire world became depressing because some guy didn’t take a swig of a bottle.
Well... 3 things I have to say
1.Finally someone who gives Payne the respect he deserves. Everyone else just makes him an incompetent idiot
2.You made Phoenix too bad. I think he still could become an above average attorney.
3.Von Karma should be dead or should have stopped working before that case where he appeared again.
Well more things popped up
4.Dahlia should not have been able to cross the bridge
5.What was 2-1!? Why didn't the Judge call Phoenix's phone?
2. Phoenix is still an Ace Attorney, the odds are just stacked against him. No matter how much skill he has, he can't exactly beat Edgeworth literally forging evidence, or being physically unable to make Mr. Kudo talk to him without having sex appeal.
3. That's a possibility, yes, but it's also possible that he'd still be alive and prosecuting. It's a fictional world with spirit mediums, don't think too hard about von Karma's age.
4. Phoenix got pretty far, and only fell because the planks gave out under him. It's possible that Dahlia, weighing a lot less than Phoenix, would've been able to cross without causing the planks to fall.
5. I mean. The Judge could've called his phone, assuming the old man even HAS a cell phone. I just thought it was funnier to have Payne do it. Doesn't really change anything if the Judge called instead.
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 I'd say that having Payne do it actually kind of adds to his character arc in this thing, turning from a prosecutor who only calls about victory to one who fights for the truth, ending when he put his own safety aside in 2-4 to help Mia find her sister.
Bro, the world of the law can be positively paleolithic. A guy like von Karma would stay active until his literal death.
@@aminadabbrulle8252 Considering his job is quite stressful... He might be dead by that point
Holy shit, this is incredible work. You've earned a sub from me, you're super underrated. Payne's redemption arc may have been my favourite part, though I feel like he'd have had a bit more hubris when Mia thanked him, all like: "H-huh? W-well, young lady - of course! I would do anything to help the innocent, ho ho ho..."
Thank you, I loved having Payne help out with Farewell My Turnabout a lot. It was great to play around with him in such a different scenario from his usual.
In retrospect, I think you might be right about Payne's hubris, (and by the way, that little bit of dialogue was very in character.) but my perspective when writing the scene was that Payne was both exhausted from the trial, and not used to receiving praise, thus his very awkward "Well... You're welcome." I do think I could've done that scene better though, and incorporating dialogue along the lines of what you used as an example would've worked perfectly.
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 I'm really glad you liked my example! :) This was awesome work, I'm kind of inspired to try my own things now.
I just realized something.
Despite everything that happens, we never see what became of Terry Fawles.
Eventually arrested and sentenced for going after his teenage pupils, obviously.
@@aminadabbrulle8252but then his sentence wouldn't be THAT long wouldnt it? Much better than being accused of two different murders anyways.
@@cheseisreal Yes.
7:06
PAYNE: "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"
JUDGE: "Erm...Mister Payne? What is that ridiculous outfit you have on?"
PAYNE: "Oh, well, I, uh..."
JUDGE: "It's that Franziska lady's outfit, isn't it?"
FRANZISKA: "His usual suit was dirty, Your Honor, and he had no way of getting it ready for today's trial. Luckily, I always have multiple prosecutor outfits for just such an occasion...though I never thought I'd ever lend one to *Winston Payne,* of all people."
JUDGE: "Very well, Mister Payne. Just...warn me in advance the next time something like this happens."
PAYNE: "Yes, Your Honor."
i like that franziska would just lend her outfit to payne, she's got a big generous heart somewhere deep down. haha
wow the whole story really rides on Mia winning TB or not.
I remember how tragic Terry's life is, but now it seems like a necessary sacrifice.
Wow, what a sad timeline.
In the end, losing was the best thing.
God this was went
Beginning - Happy
Midway - literally a piece of joke
End - worst possible timeline
For Lana's trial, Manfred Von Karma would probably have been the one prosecuting since I'm pretty sure he was the high prosecutor before Edgeworth.
Interesting take. IDK about Mia winning all those cases easily while Phoenix loses a bunch(due to small reasons such as lack of feminine charm), I always thought of Phoenix as an expansion of Mia, rather than a lesser copy.
Very interesting alternative storyline, I really liked seeing what could or couldn't happen especially with Mia and Maya together.
Although if there's an alternative, slightly more positive outcome? I feel maybe the Edgeworth case can be where Phoenix and Mia meet, Mia seeing the "demon prosecutor" be arrested for a murder trial, especially since she was the one who won the case against him and could see the spiral through news sources. With Phoenix still being a rookie but with determination Mia might take him under his wing for the agency and together they become an unstoppable defense team.
Just an idea for some positivity, but in truth I might like this more visceral, realistic win rate of Phoenix. It's also pretty funny that without Maya (and much earlier on, Dahlia) in his life he would never be accused of murder lol
payne in franziska's outfit killed me 💀
Phoenix's mentor was Winston Payne. In the credits, he says that he taught Wright everything he knows.
Liking this for Mr. Payne's sheer great revival and rivalry with Mia.
I expected him to interrupt Gaspen with his screechy OBJECTION!
I like how Payne has a more major role here
Wow, All this happens if Terry doesn’t die. Leading to Dahlia’s death and revenge.
Title of the Video: *What if Mai won the Turnabout Beginnigns?*
Me: Oh! This could be interesting.
Video: **Ends**
Me: I have crippling depression now...
It was written really well for an Ace Attorney video, feeling like Ace Attorney. Good job.
Though, i did expect Phoenix to be written differently
The creator did phoenix dirty tbh
i mean bridge to the turnabout’s original case was meant to have every member of the fey clan die except maya so it is kinda accurate that dahlia kills everybody i guess
Thoughts about Turnabout Revolution - This case have no chance to happen both in USA and Khura'in. Reasons being: no Maya and no started revolution(bc no Phoenix in Khura'in bc no Maya). Details below(ofc spoilers)
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I mean, original case 3 leads directly to kidnapping Maya because of her power. Later she gets rescued by Dhurke, who gets shot by Inga, and his last wish was Maya channeling him in States to see Apollo again. All of this cannot happen in this timeline.
USA murder also cannot happen, because no Datz leaving suitcase, which became murder weapon. But if Paul finds another weapon, this murder remain unsolved because Apollo/Kristoph probably will defend Paul in court, if it will come to that, and beat Phoenix/Shields/Grossberg/insert your lawyer here.
When Diego tried to stop Redd White, I expect it to turn out like in DebastianSebeste's video depicting a similar scenario, but in hindsight it makes sense it didn't; in that video, all previous events are like in canon, except Godot recovers from his coma early, so White simply _couldn't_ have expected him to intervene.
Whereas in this scenario, he _knows_ Diego will be there, so of course he would think to bring his own weapon. (Then again, maybe not necessarily; this _is_ the same guy who proved to be utterly incompetent by trying to testify against Phoenix, so who's to say he wouldn't also be incompetent enough to show up unprepared to Mia's office? I understand you wanted to write a grim timeline, though).
I didn't necessarily want to write a grim timeline. That's just how I thought things would go in this timeline.
Redd White being really stupid in court is one thing, but outside of court, he is certainly not incompetent. It takes some skill and smarts to successfully blackmail as many people as he did and have them all under his control. I think he's at least at the level where he would know he couldn't murder two people with his bare hands.
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 Thinking of it, I believe I'm inclined to agree with you. He seems like the sort that wouldn't _normally_ mess up that badly. His blunders would come more from either pride, or simply miscalculations, rather than failing to think things through entirely, and would thus mostly be smaller oversights as opposed to big screw-ups.
The testifying thing, he probably put no effort into preparing his testimony simply because he had rigged the situation so heavily against Phoenix already, and didn't expect him to 1) opt to represent himself; 2) _actually do a good job of it,_ since he was still a rookie. (Plus, it took Mia to do him in anyway).
Even his not bringing a weapon in the canon scenario could qualify. Maybe he really just expected to be able to stab or bludgeon her with the nearest object (which turned out to be the Thinker), but it was still not a very good plan, even if it worked. A few things could have happened differently to where Mia might have either gotten away or fought him off. But if he had to account for _two_ people, yes, that'd definitely get him making sure to show up armed.
Never meeting your awaiting friends is actually the worst thing could ever happen.
One thing I would consider is that Raymond Shields could be Phoenix mentor. Considering he would become an attorney to find Miles Edgeworth, the logicql way to do sonwould be to join Gregory attorneys office. He would not be that bad as an attorney that way, and considering how Gregory used to fight against the corrupted Manfred Von Karma, i'm pretty sure he could be almost as good as he was.
I'll tell you though
Doug Swallow would be alive
Phoenix would become an artist (or smth else)
Diego Armando wouldn't be poisoned
Everything would went different if I'd say so
Oh, and ofc the Edgeworth would continue his own ways
I didn't watch the video yet, so that's my predictions
Holy-
15 minutes long, you were not kidding when you said this would be a long one cosmic
On the bright side, I got something to watch for tonight 👀
What if...... Mia never left Grossberg & Co, so then Phoenix joined to it?
God I felt sad every second then happy then sad then MIA DIES?????
very dark stuff. i think everyone would agree that if mia won, everything would be better, but you are showing us a different viewpoint where things could go much worse.
All of this all because of one event
God this really tells you how much your actions can change the future
So basically if Phoenix never met Mia he would be a bad attorney and keep getting the "gulity" verdicts. Whoever that "Mentor" was for Phoenix must be so bad with their job.
wow this is very well thought out
poor edgeworth
Best title for this, "It's a Wonderful Turnabout"
Hello im late to this BUT, i think in this timeline phoenix and mia could've still met eachother through the 1-3 as maya being a huge fan of the steel samurai wouldve heard about will power's sudden arrest and ask mia help with investigating the case, while at the same time phoenix was called by powers himself because he beat winston payne so the two could have met in this timeline and phoenix would be able to become an above average attorney
Turnabout Samurai would have never happened because Maya never introduced it to Phoenix.
in that case Mia probably wouldve have taken it in his place
but wheter she was gonna win against a evidence forgery Edgeworth Idk
11:40. NOOOO!!! She died anyway??!! Sorry, Mia is my favorite character. But still, great video!
My only complaint is why is Maya on trial in 1-2? I feel like it should have been Mia since she would logically be the last person seen with Diego. There's no way Maya could have discovered his body if Mia was there to stop her. But there's also the fact that Mia would have been a witness. So if she's both the defendant and the only witness besides April May, then she might not have been able to say, defend herself. She might have ended up calling Grossberg, getting rejected, and defended by a random lawyer
Godot tells Mia to, quote, "get out of here!" and then the screen fades to black. Mia ran out of the building, and away from the scene, just as told.
I don't think you'd be running back into a building with an active shooter.
Maya on the other hand, just like in canon, has no clue what in the world happened, and shows up to the scene, finding Diego dead, just in time for the cops to show up and arrest her.
basically, Mia Fey: Ace Attorney.
This is not Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, This is Mia Fey: Ace Attorney...and that's interessant
tfyguhijhugyfd it was so serious at first but then Franziska Payne just killed me i cant take this anymore
Wait, why would Juniper Woods have been accused during Turnabout Countdown? I figured without her reconnecting with Athena and meeting Apollo, she wouldn't have been there during the Cosmic Turnabout, ruling her out as a suspect.
Also, why did Maya Fey get accused of killing Diego?
yeah that part makes no sense because Mia was a witness to the murder so she wouldve have pointed out Red Whitte as the killer imediately
I don't agree with phoenix continuously getting guilty verdict because even without mia's help he would have found a way to win. He has already proven it in bridge to the turnabout. He doesn't need a magatama or maya's channeling to win a case.
I think what the author is aiming here is that: as good as Phoenix is GOING TO BE, in the first game he's still a rookie. Without Mia's guidance and Maya's support to win his first few cases, the few first losses he got hit him hard.
Without winning the tight cases in the first game, he never developed any decent reputation or experience he's shown in later games.
Remember, Phoenix's best trait is never giving up in tight situations. Without confidence Mia/Maya/Pearl/wins he got in the OG timeline, he'd easily think he'd lose the case and never bothered to take them. Hence, in this timeline he's just a run-of-the-mill lawyer, not a legendary rookie.
@@garrykaspari2588Why do we even have to assume that he would lose, though? Just because he didn't have Mia doesn't mean he would be a run-of-the-mill lawyer.
My point was that I disagree with phoenix losing. He easily won the first case, and i'm pretty sure that edgeworth would still help wright in turnabout samurai because he was saddled with unnecessary feelings when meeting wright. Also, phoenix would still be stubborn about saving edgeworth and convince him in turnabout goodbyes, it's dumb how easily he gave up in the video. He won the damon gant case without any help in the first game, which alone proves that he is smarter than the creator of the video thinks.
I don't believe that phoenix is so mentally weak to the point he gave up after some losses. Like you said, He is determined about saving those who are in tough situations, that is his main motivation and speciality. It has been his motivation since childhood so i don't believe he wouldn't bother taking cases just because he lost few times.
@@Nexylve Phoenix is incredibly smart and incredibly mentally strong. This is a fact, and one that I support wholeheartedly.
Again, as I've said a lot in the comments here, the problem is absolutely NOTHING on Phoenix's end. Him losing is on absolutely no fault of his own, at all. It is entirely on the circumstances.
Anytime he has the physical capability to, he does in this video, such as The First Turnabout, and The Lost Turnabout.
Edgeworth would NOT help Phoenix in Turnabout Samurai, due to his further von Karma training and influence, and he would not accept Phoenix's help in Turnabout Goodbyes even if Phoenix continued to try to convince him because of his guilt over all the forgeries. Again, this is not on Phoenix's shoulders.
A big part of Phoenix's motivation in becoming a Defense Attorney was saving Edgeworth. And he failed. His childhood friend who he tried so hard to save is dead. That is a very valid reason for him to fall into a funk and not take several cases. In canon, he stops taking cases for awhile leading up to Rise From The Ashes simply because Maya went back to Kurain. That is a way less valid reason than the death of your childhood friend, a death that you could delude yourself into believing was your fault. Yet he does it in canon.
You can argue that there may be other ways Phoenix could get around Psyche Locks or Spirit Channeling, but those aren't really supported by canon. They never say there's some other way to get some of the information hidden behind Psyche Locks. Phoenix could hypothetically go through the sequence without the Magatama showing him Psyche Locks and just get the information without any dramatics, but Spirit Channeling places him at a complete dead end. Spirit Channeling is not usually REQUIRED in the games, but if it is, there's no physical way around that. If you need to channel a dead person, there's not much way to replace that.
I’m pretty sure Mia could fight Dahlia off. Also surprised Mia never faced Von Karma once.
Mia isn't exactly a fighter, and Dahlia had both a weapon, and the element of surprise.
...Franziska not reappearing, in hindsight, is a bit of an oversight. My reasoning was that, since Phoenix never beat Edgeworth, she had no reason to return to get revenge... forgetting that Mia beat Edgeworth in this timeline.
Actually, technically, Franziska says that she wanted to get revenge on Edgeworth by beating the one person that he couldn't, not revenge on the person who beat him.
Can't exactly get revenge on Edgeworth if he's been executed for a murder, so, her not appearing still works.
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 I meant Manfred not Franziska
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 Well, in my plot universe, she is a HELL of a fighter! She would easily fend off both Dahlia and White. Sorry.
@@potsdam28 It would be very cool.
7:05 WHAT IS THAT CURSED IMAGE?!
So basically it would be “Mia fey, ace attorney, but also phoenix but he loses most of the time”
So basically this wouldve been Mia Fey: Ace Attorney instead of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Payneziska von Karma is cursed.
Hmm, I guess the dark age of the law would still happen, as Kristoph only framed Phoenix in retaliation for replacing him, meaning the replacement lawyer is still tricked into presenting forged evidence. And Blackquill still confesses to murder, too.
This would actually be a great alternate history story for Ace Attorney, Mia defends her sister instead of Phoenix, Mr. White never murdering Mia and Mr. Armando still alive after Mia got a chance to win Turnabout Beginnings (that’s not before being murdered by Redd White of Bluecorp), but one thing would have to change, Phoenix still gets convicted for murder, which Phoenix would still get to be mentored by Mia, but this time with Armando there too.
11:34 This is a True Jumpscare.
11:45 the Fallen Phoenix Wright.
14:34 It's Turnabout Time Travel has the Time Machine Someone Sacrifices, To Mia Fey Never Wins the First Case.
I beg to differ about the part where Pearl is charged for the murders of Mia and Maya cause how the plan was supposed is both get killed and Iris is the who gets charged for the killings
Well the plan was to get Pearl to be the Fey Clan Master. So I guess Mia and Maya being killed would be included. Iris would still get guilty because of Bikini's eyewitness testimony.
Yeah, but Dahlia ruined it by moving to the other side of the temple and killing Mia.
@ZoomReverseFlash Around this time Bikini would be done by taking her bath and she could potentially see the murder and since Dahlia and Iris are twins she would think iris is the culprit
@@mrmimeisfunny Bikini sees Dahlia in Pearl's body and mistakes her for Iris. She calls the police. The police show up and find Iris, who is completely clean, and then they find Pearl, covered in blood, and crying about how someone killed her family in her body.
Bikini's testimony is out the window, the child covered in blood is far more guilty than what Bikini thought she saw in the dark of night.
I do not think Von Karma would be Alive for UR-1 case considering its like 13-15 years since events of the first game and He was Old during first game. So I think he's died or Retired.
DL-6 retrial has been dated to 2016, and UR-1 retrial, 2027. Von Karma was 65 in the former, so he should be 76 in the latter, and considering his "way" of prosecution, he's either dead by then, or still prosecuting. I just don't see him retiring.
@@accuratebalance5097 Now that I think about it Von Karma would never retire unless he lost a case so badly he retired but I doubt that
7:02 What did I just see😂
Pearl going to jail is a bit weird since Morgan's plan was to make her the new master of the Kurain clan, blaming the murders on Iris would've been a more logical end.
Even if Morgan blamed the murders on Iris, which she probably did, it wouldn't have mattered.
The police would show up, find a bloody child with a weapon, who, based on how Maya reacted in Reunion & Turnabout, might be freaking out over someone killing in her body, and Iris who would be clean as a whistle, and go "Yeah that woman who wasn't even here is crazy, Iris is clean, let's arrest the obviously murderer bloody child"
My leading theory (no matter the timeline) is that due to Dahlia's absolute hate towards her family, even though the plan likely involved Iris to take the fall (which would've been easy to do due to them being twins), Dahlia would go on and betray Morgan (as she was a horrible mother) by shifting the blame onto Pearl, dealing a leathal blow to not only Morgan, but with Mia, Maya AND Pearl gone, the entire Fey Clan.
In this universe, Turnabout Memories dosent happen, but actually, it does because in the anime it reveals that Iris dressed as Dahlia and was the one who killed Doug Swallow, so it would happen, however Bridge To Turnabout would be different bc Iris would be in prison.
I can't tell if this is a joke
Nah, dahlia saw pheonix twice, once when she handed off diegos poison, and twice when she murdered doug swallow. Iris handled the inbetween
Dahlia is dead or arrested due to her first crime so she would never had poisoned Diego which led to her meeting Phoenix and she would never had met Doug Swallow.
and Iris would be at Hazakura temple probably
Dahlia crossing the bridge had me confused, but of course Dahlia would have no qualms crossing a burning bridge if it's not her body at risk! That does get me wondering, though. Does the weight of the medium remain the same during channeling?
this is awesome dude
One oddity of this is, if Dahlia only killed Valerie in this timeline, would she have been executed in order to carry out the murders in BTTT?
With just one murder to her name she may have simply been jailed for a long time.
That said, Morgan did suggest she might kill her, so maybe that's what happened there.
BUT WAIT! What if dahli was not manage to pass the bridge? We got butterfly effect afterall.
Did anyone else catch that scene of Payne cosplaying as Franziska?
Wouldn't Phoenix have to take Maya's cases though, since she's related to Mia, and because of her personal involvement in the Redd White incident?
The same could be said for Phoenix in the canon cases though.
I know this is an alternate timeline. But seeing Pheonix lose like that hurts me.
Wouldnt diego armando still have been poisoned by dahlia hawthorne?
Even though he was killed by Redd White
Dahlia can't poison anybody if she's in prison.
Nor would Diego have any reason to track her down to question her, since she never escaped Turnabout Beginnings.
OMG you thought of so many details
Winston Payne is a real one
7:06 Lol 💀 Winziska Hybrid 💀💀💀
Edgeworth didn't know the evidence was forged. Lana Skye and Damon Gant were the ones forging the evidence.
But Edgeworth did bail him out in Will Powers' case. Maybe Mia getting Redd White to confess was enough to soften him up so he would do that again. Then Edgeworth asks for Mia to defend him and Phoenix barges in to join the defense team and joins Fey law offices, winning the case and defeating Von Karma.
He doesn't really have much of a reason to go to Kurain so he probably just holds the fort during Reunion and Turnabout. Von Karma Jr. still comes to Japanifornia from Germarica and gets a grudge against Fey for ruining her family name. Phoenix successfully defends Maggey Byrde after Mia goes to fetch the con artist list. And then the rest of the games go approximately the same way.
I think you missed the point entirely.
In this timeline Edgeworth forged evidence himself, knowingly, because Manfred further enforced the von Karma ways on Edgeworth in response to him losing Turnabout Beginnings, so that he would never lose again, and taught Edgeworth to forge evidence.
From there, I think the Turnabout Goodbyes scene should've explained Edgeworth's feelings well enough. He would *never* ask Phoenix, or especially Mia (who wouldn't defend him anyways due to his reputation, especially in this universe. She has no frame of reference to believe that he's a good guy like Phoenix does) to defend him under the circumstances. He sent many, so many innocent people to get executed using forged evidence. He believes that he deserves to be declared guilty for what he's done. Just look at how he reacted to *unknowingly* using forged evidence in Rise From The Ashes. His reaction to what he's knowingly done in this timeline would be far more severe.
Mia Fey : Ace Attorney
Poor, poor Mister Powers :(
*Why is everything happening in light speed*
Mia walked so Phoenix could run
*Mia died
@@therobbu The phrase was metaphorical, not literal
Not really. I doubt channeling mia is necessary for phoenix to win every case. He is very smart by default and in bridge to the turnabout, he already proved that he can still win without mia's help. Plus phoenix did decently in the first game without the magatama. Magatama is just a lie detector and i'm sure phoenix can learn the truth without it.
Phoenix is not entirely dependent on maya, but the game really forces it for some reason.
@@NexilithNocturne I agree, I do think Phoenix is a smart lawyer in his own right, and honestly, I think that Maya was just forced into scenes that made her important so the players would remember she’s a thing. Without those scenes, she’ll just be another Trucy from DD
As for the Magatama, that was just forced in as a new gameplay gimmick, it didn’t serve that much of a purpose outside of that. If Phoenix actually used it, he could easily solve cases by asking people, “Did you kill the victim?”
Also, just for clarification, this comment was regarding this video, not the game itself. However I do enjoy a good fun discussion about topics I’m passionate about such as this
@@CLTurtle Oh. I totally misunderstood that. I thought you were talking about the games.
I'm actually glad that they made mia a recurring character, but i also think that they overdid it. The magatama did make a good gameplay mechanic and It makes sense for it to be in every case. It is definitely fun to discuss topics like this.
10:10 that's super sus
If that's the case. Basically, Phoenix would still try to become a lawyer but not met Mia (Maybe) and other than that Phoenix will no longer be the main character and he will be working to a different Law Office, and Mia would remain as the main character through the entire trilogy (Fanon)
The video for the codes is not available, can you put them in this comment
Why did nobody talk about 7:07????
Doesn't Dalhia poisonned Diego at the beginning that cause a coma for 5 years ? In any case, Diego would be poisonned anyways, but he would'nt become a prosecutor because Phoenix Wright wasn't in the Redd White case and Mia Fey would never met Phoenix, so maybe Diego after his coma would defend pearl Fey at the final case of T&T even if he doesn't see the color red on white ? And if that's it then he wouldn't help for Mia in the 2nd case of AA:PW and Mia would be dead, and Maya wouldn't be kidnapped because she would never met Will Powers and Phoenix Wright.
by the way that a great video I loved it !
1:50. I don't really get why Armando died. Maybe original Mia Fey wasn't a fighter but Armando/Godot is one of the strongest characters in AA. Physicaly (given his hight, muscles, throwing cups and all). And White.....I doubt that he is strong enough to kill Diego. That's my opinion. Maybe, I am underestimating him.
And as for Will Powers and Miles himself, I think it might end the same way it did in original game. As with other cases in AJ, DD and SOJ.
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White had a gun.
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837 Oh.....ok....
It is the classic "struggling with a gun" scenario.
@@funbro99 Why didn't he use it in the first place?
Spoiler alert:
7:06: Damn it,I can't🤭I just can't🤣
The horror
Jesus this is depressing.
7:06 WTF
Also, lemme fix the plotholes real quick.
1. [Not really a plothole] Phoenix's mentor could be ANYONE! Grossberg, Mia & Diego, Robert Hammond, Kristoph Gavin, or even Aristotle Means! However, Winston Payne would be the most likely mentor considering he "taught Phoenix everything he knows."
2. Redd White does NOT carry a gun. He could've killed Mia/Diego, but it's more likely that Diego would beat Redd White in a fight. There would be no trial of Maya Fey becase Diego killed in self defense.
3. Edgeworth still helps Phoenix at the end of Turnabout Samurai, so the verdict is unchanged.
4. Phoenix still beats Von Karma because this is one of the only cases where Phoenix never needed Mia's help. Yes, it is a vision of Mia who tells him not to think normal, but crazy, but that could be ANY mentor. Phoenix himself could've come up with this. The virdict is not guilty.
5. Edgeworth would still be the prosecutor of Farewell my Turnabout, because he is still alive.
6. Diego would still be alive, so Bridge to Turnabout would be the same.
7. Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies happen like normal.
8. Mia would be the master of the Kurian Channeling Technique, so she would the defendant in Rite of Turnabout instead of Maya. She would be defending herself.
9. Apollo would be fighting Mia instead of Phoenix in Turnabout Revolution. Everything else just happens as normal.
So yeah, a few weird changes, but not much really happens.
Check the pinned comment. The Edgeworth thing has come up so many times now that I have updated it to explain Edgeworth's altered timeline.
In regards to the other stuff, I really only have two other things to add.
Redd doesn't carry a gun in canon, because he was going in to kill one lone woman. In this altered timeline, he is going in knowing that he is going to be up against two people, one of which is a man who is physically stronger than him. So he brings a proper weapon for the job. He can't be THAT incompetent to not bring a proper weapon for a 2v1 confrontation if he managed to blackmail the courts.
Mia would NEVER be the Master of the Kurain Channeling Technique, under any circumstances. Her entire motivation for leaving Kurain in canon is because she wanted to escape the constant fighting over who the Master would be, and did not want anything like that to cause a strain on her relationship with Maya. She specifically abandoned her position as heir of the title to go become a lawyer and not deal with the village drama, and I highly doubt leaving her sister behind in the care of her highly dubious Aunt was a decision that Mia made lightly. I cannot see any timeline where Mia becomes the Master.
I gotcha. Personally, I think Redd White IS that stupid, he could've blackmailed Mia with the information that "Mia is related to a fraud", along with the fact that Redd White isn't exactly afraid of hiding his evil, but we all have our opinions.
As for the Kurian thing, that clears things up.@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837
For number 4, pheonix would've lost cuz he never basically adopted maya, and she never would've gotten the crucial bullet from her tackling karma in the evidence locker
@@nickolasobjectionlolstuff2837mia left due to dl6 causing fey clan drama, and dl6 still happened so yeah
@cheese0827 I mean... Phoenix could've tackled Von Karma, but to be fair... Maya wouldn't be there to sacrifice herself to be held Contempt of Court. MAYBE Phoenix would do it instead, and Larry Butz will have to bail him out of jail, but I highly doubt that.
I do agree that Case 4 would be harder if not impossible without the help of Maya.