Raising the Largest Gun Barrels in the US Navy
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2023
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In this episode we're talking about a project by the museum to elevate the 16in gun barrels.
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I thought your contract with the Navy said you can't operate anything ship related
@@King.of.Battleships They can’t raise steam, operate auxiliary Diesel, or otherwise navigate the ship. They *can* raise guns, rotate turrets/directors, turn on lights, sound horns, etc via other means, though.
Curiosity question for you Ryan. Was/is it possible to fire the main guns without electricity? Like for instance in the middle of the battle a well placed enemy round takes out the power generation capabilities or what have you. And if so could you please do a video on it. Know you can't actually fire it but I would like to see how it would work.
I hate cereal, or I would buy it because it is gluten free.
But since this is a ship channel, shouldn't there be a more naval version? Can't be Cap'n Crunch, because that is a sugar bomb, but something more naval?
That was THE worst pronunciation of "Canada" I have ever heard....
Well done Sir!
i have a really good idea on this topic; turret #1 should be at zero degrees elevation so the guests can get up close and personal with the muzzles. Turret # 2 should be at the maximum, 45 degrees, being the highest-mounted, it would give the guests a sense of scale and awe. Turret #3 should have remained at its five-degree loading angle so that the guests could see three stages of the loading process. On top of this, it would also give U.S.S. New Jersey a very unique silhouette from a distance compared to all other museum battleships. Just my two cents.
Interesting , Thank You
My thoughts exactly
If the tour is starting at the Bow, I think it would be nice to have Turret #1 with at least one at zero degrees. Turret #2 at the five-degree loading angle. and Turret #3 set up at 20 to 45 degrees.
Tower401ladder, I like your idea. 😊
Agree
The tremendous amount of time and effort you and the museum volunteers put into preserving USS New Jersey is very impressive, and greatly appreciated.
YES!
I appreciated a lot that I got to see the loading position with the shell and the powder bags on USS Massachusetts. It was super impressive to see that in person. I think this is well worth the small visual tradeoff of having one barrel on turret 3 at the loading position. It is turret 3 after all, the glamour shots are taken in front of turrets 1 and 2 anyway.
You could even have one barrel, at 20, one at 5, and one at 0/45
I agree. I liked going in Turret 3 and being able to see how the guns were loaded. In fact i thought it was a mistake to have turret 1 at 20 degrees because when you go in it you cant see much of the breach with how the guns were elevated. I think its more of a mistake to elevate turret 3 since Ryan has said how much he hates signs, well now the only way to show the loading process is with signs.
I like seeing both but seeing the powder bags and appreciation of the limited space everyone was working in really made me proud.
Personally I like the Iowa concept of zero elevation at turret # 1 and 20 degrees at turret #2. I like the ability to touch a gun barrel of turret # 1 as I did when touring the Wisconsin in 1995 at Philadelphia. I had my photo taken touching the center barrel of turret # 1. It gives a great perspective as to the gun size as compared to a human.
0 + 20 degrees looks great educationally, it cuts a striking picture and allows guests to get the power of the ship from 2 angles, the imposing salute of 20, and the sense of scale looking down the bore at zero.
Truly, I would like to see you do something similar to what Iowa has done, with one of your main battery turrets at minimum elevation - it really puts the whole “this is a 16-inch gun” idea into perspective.
I think I like the 20-degree salute better. It shows that despite the ships are being used as museums, they stand tall and proud as if still in commission out in the middle of the ocean. I like it on Missouri, especially, because it shows her guarding the wreck of the USS Arizona.
I feel like Turret 3 should have one barrel at 0, one at saluting, and one at max so you can see a progression of elevation as you would when they were preparing to fire.
Yes it is aft, and not a lot of people were looking in there, but you could do an exterior display showing it
I love the 20° elevation. It looks menacing. I also love the look of the ship from turret 3 forward. Some of the most iconic photos of NJ are from that angle.
This reminds me of when I was working for a large FBO that got hit by Hurricane Sandy and the salt water brought in by the storm surge destroyed our 3 Phase 440v distribution system.(449v 3 phase because it was at one time a military aircraft production facility) and we couldn't open the doors of any of the hangars. The doors on hangars 3 and 4 were 3 splitt in 3 so they could be lifted independently of each other. One of our clients was a doctor that would use his TBM 750 to fly cross country to other hospitals and needed his plane out. It took me and another guy 45min to lift each door high enough to clear the tail and wings of his plane. That was a suck ass day but, he did tip us well for our efforts.
Visually the guns raised looks amazing from a distance. But as a museum I think having one gun turret at 0 degrees so tourists can see the diameter of the barrels is also striking and gives people an accurate idea of how big truly big the guns are. Like anything that goes boom. People always like to look down the barrel lol. Thanks for the video and congrats on getting the guns to move again.
USS North Carolina has #3 turret set the way you had yours, but #3 turret was the first spot to go to when you first get aboard. I thought it was cool to see the loading procedures on the NC and makes sense after watching your video why Turret 3 is the first place to go on the NC
It would be pretty impressive if you could have one barrel at 0 degrees, and replace the plug with a glass/perspex version and rig up some lighting so that visitors could look in and see down the entire length of the barrel.
It's amazing seeing in the archival footage how easily and fluidly all the parts moved while under full power compared to how labour intensive it is to make them move manually.
Why not hook up a smaller hydraulic pump to the hydraulic systems in there?
Even a small 2.5 hp motor on a 2 stage pump should be able to do the job granted it would be much slower than the ships own system but it would get the job done
I think the Museum should consider hiring a shipfitting firm to explore how one of the turrets could be reactivated for display purposes. Compared to the electrical and hydraulic power needed to meet the demands of wartime use out on the high seas, the electrical and hydraulic requirements to move one turret and its guns in a sedate, leisurely portside setting should be a fraction of the system's original capacity.
They don’t want to do any alterations to the ship if it’s not necessary. Unless you can get 440v of power to the hydraulic pumps, those turrets aren’t moving.
Ryan, I like the look good work. I cannot express in words how impressed I am with your volunteers with their hard work and dedication. Thank you for what you do to protect and preserve our history!
I think for visuals saluting position is the best.
For educational purposes I would put Turret 1 at 0 degrees, Turret 2 at 45, so you can get a sense of how much the guns could elevate. And I would put Turret 3 at 5 degrees and inside show various stages of the loading process. Of course this would give it a pretty weird silhouette, but you can't have everything at the same time :)
Back in 1981 when I worked on USS MASSACHUSETTS we had to use the pipe wrench trick to elevate the barrels on the number two turret. Watching this video sure brought back some fond memories. It was the most fun job ever.
Turret #1 at 0, and the rest at 20 I think looks best. Having the front turret pointing straight ahead gives the ship more of a sense of motion.
Ryan, I would have turret 1 with one gun at 0 degrees. Another at the loading position of 5 degrees. The third at maximum elevation. That way the second gun could be shown loading. Just my view if I was the curator.
There’s a somewhat famous picture of South Dakota with her forward battery in that position. It really does look impressive.
Excellent suggestion! To really understand these guns, IMHO it's necessary to see how they are loaded. Having one gun displayed midway thru the loading process was a solid educational idea by the original staff; I would agree with the OP that implementing the idea in either turret 1 or 2 would result in more visitors seeing it.
@@SomeRandomHuman717 I would agree that having none of the guns in the loading position means that visitors don’t get to see how it worked anywhere. So having one turret with three different configurations of angles makes sense, plus I think there is a need to have at least one gun barrel within reach of visitors.
There’s a total of nine guns so why not a bit of variation between them?
@@SomeRandomHuman717 Thanks! I am glad someone likes my idea!
I'd like to see both, 20 degrees is the most visually pleasing from the outside but seeing the breach open with the loading is the most educational. All three barrels should be at the same elevation visually.
From BC Canada. Thanks fo another post on your beloved lady. I just saw the making of there guns.
I really like the way Iowa has her guns. Seeing the muzzles up close was cool and makes for great photo ops for the visitors. I have a great photo of my friend’s daughter leaning against the starboard gun of turret 1. It adds perspective to the size of the muzzle.
14:24 As I mentioned before regarding power for turret rotation, you could downsize the elevation hydraulic pump motors to accommodate the limits of shore power. The barrels (and turrets) would not move as fast due to the smaller motors but they could be moved more easily. You could tie in control of the elevation and traverse motors into the original panels. Imagine the popularity of allowing visitors the ability to move a barrel and/or turret.
Leave one gun on turret one at zero degrees for photograph opportunities since turret one sits the lowest of the three. Also to demonstrate that each gun can be independently raised/lowered vs a triple-gun turret where all three barrels are raised/lowered together.
Leave the rest at 20 degrees as a salute to the veterans.
I think that the saluting position looks awesome, I get shivers every time I drive by the Alabama.
For those of you watching from Canadia lmao
I like the majesty of the 20-degree elevation. Sure, I'd love to touch a muzzle sometime, but given how low the barrels are at 0 degrees, they would probably be roped off anyway.
I had no idea how low down the elevation mechanism is in the well. Makes sense, but it was still startling to see...
I love how much thought you and the museum put into the presentation of Lady New Jersey :) It’s wonderful to see.
I think the 20 degree position is best, because it looks so proud and mighty. To your point at the beginning, whether a person is five or eighty-five, an Iowa Class Battleship is a sight to behold when arrayed for battle.
When I had the chance to visit USS New Jersey back in 2014, the only turret accessible on the self-guided tour was turret 3. Being able to see the breech and the loading tray through the tiny porthole was great.
HI RYAN ,, GREAT TO SEE THERE ARE GUYS STILL CARING FOR THERE OLD SHIP.. GREAT TO SEE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS SHIP AND ALL THESE OTHER GREAT OLD GIRLS,, SHIPS....MY SON MAX SAW THESE MAGIC SPOON BEFORE ,, HIS FRIENDS SAY ITS GREAT!!!! YOU LOOK LIKE A KID AT THE TABLE ,,HA!!! DO YOU HAVE KIDS TO ENJOY TOOO??? COCO ,, FRUIT,, YA!! VERY COOOL LOADING THE GUNS THE VIDEO CLIP...TO BAD WE COULD SEE THE CREWS FACES.. THANKS...
I'm so in awe of the majesty of these great machines, I'd like the navy to uncap one of the barrels so guests could look down it.
I'm surprised that there aren't manual systems installed originally to accomplish moving the loading tray, opening/closing the breech, etc. The Navy is usually excellent about adding in multiply redundant systems.
USS New Jersey! I am accidentally building you at the moment. I bought a trumpeter model of the uss Missouri in its 1991 layout and as I was building it I kept noticing several discrepancies. So I went back and consulted the hundreds of ship pictures I have and either trumpeter mislabeled this model or just simply modeled the wrong ship it is in fact the New Jersey in her 1991 layout! I have new decals on order to correct the hull number so it probably reflects the ship.
Ryan I love what you do and the effort you put into not only showing us your ship but bringing attention to all museum ships and educating on the importance of each one. You are a big man to take this approach!
you do an excellent job as a curator. the British Museum has a "curator's corner" show where various specialists go over pieces. not sure it this is still possible, but if you could find sailors who actually served on board any of this class, that would be a brilliant addition. (from any time period). just an idea.. maybe you already have. i like the 20 degree angle
I think it would make better sense to have turret 1 in different stages of the loading process so if tourist aren’t going into turret 3 to see that they can see it in the first turret they go into to. I think it would be cool to also see sailors loading the gun throughout the different stages. Have one of the three barrels doing something different.
I agree. I liked going in Turret 3 and being able to see how the guns were loaded. In fact i thought it was a mistake to have turret 1 at 20 degrees because when you go in it you cant see much of the breach with how the guns were elevated. Also Ryan has said how much he hates signs, well now the only way to show the loading process is with signs.
@@randycoddington3525 yeah New Jersey was laid down for one purpose and that is to haul those guns around the oceans. If it wasn’t for the guns and the shells they fire there wouldn’t even be a New Jersey or any other battleship. I think it’s important for the people visiting the ship to see that and understand that is the most important part of the ship. Understanding how they function is a vital part of why the ship exists in the first place.
Ryan, you and your teams commitment to keeping this asset a positive experience for visitors is very much appreciated. I also enjoy your sense of fun when you just don't know how something works.
Seeing the loading mechanism would be cool, and the zero degrees to see the barel is cool, also.
Thank you to Ryan and all the volunteers. You do some great work. If I get to the States before my cancer end date I will be making a straight dash too see NJ and you never know I may get to shake Ryan's hand.
Saluting angle makes a lot of sense for display. If I were to tour the ship, I'd want to see the "loading display" (loading angle, breech open, spanner tray down, etc.), but that assumes easy access and a good view of the display. I can understand the reasoning to forego that whole display to match the saluting angle on the other turrets.
I like the multiple positions. Thank You for another great video
Very cool, Ryan. You have the best job!!!!
I'd suggest having all three center guns at elevations other than 20 degrees, and there's a good reason for each. Turret 1 lacks a rangefinder, so it's the one getting the most visitors. Put its center gun at 5 degrees. It would be in loading configuration, with the breech open and spanning tray deployed. Turret 2 is the highest, so put its center gun at maximum elevation, 45 degrees, to demonstrate how high they can go. For turret 3, put the center gun all the way down, 0 degrees, to show how low they can go and allow visitors to get close to the muzzle.
I think it would be neat if even for a limited time the battleship could show off a 45 degree position just to emphasize how big the guns are and how impressively built the machinery is
Having the forward turrets at 20 degrees looks great. I first got a good look at New jersey from across the water, doing a tour of Olympia, and it just looks super on the river with its guns up.
but I then did the New Jersey tour (this was 4 or so years ago, just before this youtube thing kicked off), and I would have loved to have seen inside a turret with the loading mechanism raised,m but turret three was closed for 'reasons' at the time.
So, I think having the back turret in the 0 degree configuration would be good.
I have a photo of myself on Iowa next to the muzzle, gives a good scope of the size of it. However visually from a distance, I think the guns elevated looks terrific. I drive by USS Massachusetts quite a bit, and seeing the guns up just looks so mean, she looks ready for action!
I have been on the Massachusetts many times. I like the lower elevation just because I like seeing the open breech and loading tray down to in it.
It would be cool to see the turret rotate. And if a few "blank rouns" could be made and fired! Haha boom boom. I know that's a lot of work and costly. But still, it would be cool to see!!
Excellent! We’ll done.
Thank you Ryan. Love your passion
I love ships.
Something is high up and needs to be accessible? Nevermind ladders, the bulkhead is the ladder.
On Iowa going into any turret is not on the tour. I wish it were. Thanks Ryan for your passion on these magnificent warships. I find the design and machining incredible not to mention the history that you can touch. Love your Texas drydock stuff as well.
I think it would be very neat to have one at the zero degree mark and put a clear cover on it and have the breach open and lit so the tourists can see all the way through the barrel.
That’s a HUGE jack screw !
Speaking as someone with OCD, thanks to 21+ years in the military, I like uniformity, so having all of Big J's guns at 20° is incredibly satisfying to see.
Now that you know how to do it - clamp a gear to the jack, put a motor on it, and elevate the gun barrel on the weekends for visitors to watch!
Magic Spoon rocks!
I actually had my arm around turret 2 barrel 2 the one that exploded I was with my dad I have a pic if you like
I spoke to the captain at the time I asked him how our navy would do against the Russian I never forgot his answer 45 yrs later he said they would live a very brief exciting life until we totaly destroyed them !!! But what me was the confidence in his vioce 45 yrs later I have yet to hear that tone from any one about any thing wow! I'm glad he was on our side!
Well, I already own a Rustic and Main wedding right (Jersey teak and copper) so I guess I'll have to try Magic Spoon now? I like to support businesses who support Battleship New Jersey.
I can see why 20 degrees is chosen since it looks good. But personally I prefer all guns at zero degrees because in my mind since the ship is retired it's like it's resting rather than having its arms lifted despite not being in service anymore.
Zero is also an angle that'd "protect the harbor". Retired, but still capable of business.
Liked one turret barrels down, helped feel how big the are up close. Suggest you put the spare barrel on the bridge to the ship so you do not have to go into a trashy parking lot to see it. There are some nice displaye with a projectile in front of the barrel.
If I got to decide the positions, I would have one barrel in maximum depression, one at maximum elevation and one in loading position with the ramp and ram extended, in the same turret. That way the visitor who enters the turret can visually experience what the gun crews would have seen at each stage.
One gun in the most visited turret should show the loading process with a 16" Mark 9 Target Projectile ready for loading and another gun with the powder bags ready for loading. Other than that, the best angle is whatever you need at the time.
I like the Iowa setup. I was aboard for the self guided tour in 2015.
Enjoyed the video.
I would like to see the boilers lit for a demonstration of some of the systems under power-not necessarily to sail the ship more for demonstration of the steering, gun blow out, etc
Its good to see them move, keeps them free and serviceable! Question - one of your sister museum ships did a vid recently manually turning Spot II. Could New Jersey do a vid manually turning Spot I or II? Would be a delight to see!
Thanks for the video. Would it be possible to show more of the mechanism like the upper connection of the large acme screw that is shown over your right shoulder? Also what is on the other end of pipe your guys were applying the wrench? Is that the location of the motor that was designed to elevate the gun? Again thanks for the videos.
On my Iowa class BB I have turret 1 set at 0, 2 set at 20, and 3 set for max range shot. It answers the question before it's asked on the gun elevation needed for a max range shot. This 4th of July we're going to fire all 9 guns with a full power charge, should be cool. Ryan is too wimpy to fire the guns on his ship.
The best option would be if you can start up the hydraulic systems and to change the angles from time to time, according to the tour preferences. Perhaps some group would like to stand infront of the muzzle, other to have the chance to see the loading, etc.
Even after a literal decade of being a naval history nerd I'm still astounded by the amount of work and technology that had to go into making these warships work. I can't imagine how much effort it must've taken for the engineers to not only design almost everything in a guns loading system to be automated but to also have manual failsafes in place just in case they need to do it all by hand. The prospect is ridiculous to say the least and yet the US Navy alone has dozens of the things built.
Personally the visual of having the front 2 turrets with the guns in the air is incredible, but having at least some of the barrels at 0° so you can get up close to them and see them in detail is also very striking. I like the idea of having turret 3 or turret 1 at 0° and the other 2 turrets at 20°. That was something I loved while visiting Iowa.
If you had been able to get manekins in appropriate poses to man a turret, I would set up a battle stations scene in turret one where people gets to first, with one gun "loaded" as in breech closed and raised to 20° with the order tables set to a higher elevations and the mannekins at their stations as if they are raising the gun to the elevation angle of the firemission on the tables.
One gun either half rammed with one replica bag half into the breech and one between it and the rammer OR, a dummy shell half way in and loader standing by for the rammer to cycle and roll the first set of powder bags into the tray and the third gun at the correct elevation standing by, possibly with some kind of mishap sub-scene that would show why one gun might be 'slower'.
I honestly think what Iowa did was the best. Both so you can see the gun barrels but also so when you go into turret one, you can see the gun at the reloading position.
It's clearly the loading angle! We just need to hurl a particular pointy 1.2 ton cylinder and some special silk bags into the breech, close it and pull the trigger when Mr. Szymanski is looking the other way 😜
jokes aside: 20° is the best looking.
Ryan has a new belt! Finally.
Visually, my favorite angle is 5 degrees. It seems "businesslike" to me, 0 degrees looks inactive, saluting angle or maximum angle is too showy for my taste. I really doubt I'm in the majority, though!
Hey, what a great bit of old footage, of loading the guns! It looked great, and also sets the viewer up for the recent chainfall segment. That, and the great still shots displaying what Ryan was pointing at, unseen, really make this video stand out as good production!
I think it would be cool to see Turret #1 at the 20° salute, Turret #2 at the minimum angle so we can see the breach, loading assembly and muzzle outside, and Turret #3 at the maximum 45°.
I plan to come down for a curator's tour July 2023. 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Both the Iowa style and all 20° are beautiful, in my opinion
Turret 1 Should have one gun at Zero degree with the breech open. A light at the breech so when you look in the muzzle you can see the rifling and length. Turret 1 should have one gun in the loading position so visitors can see the tray and open breech with powder bags and rammer. The third gun should be at loading position so you can show more of the loading process if needed. Turret two at max elevation to be impressive and turret three at saluting position.
Answer to the question asked at the end: I would like to see them moving up/down and rotating. It's ,,only'' electricity and oil. Should be doable ;)
Yes, electricity... more electricity than the shore power feed can provide. Not allowed to run the boilers = no turret traverse or powered gun elevation.
Just change the elevations occasionally. can also mix elevations. Many different combinations may be possible.
As turret 1 is visited first and most often, maybe having one barrel, the center one, down to the loading position would be cool. Using the center barrel would keep the symmetry while the lowered barrel would add some drama and the chance to see the loading mechanism. You might use turret 2 but I don't think that would work as well.
It would be a very incredible sight to behold if those barrels were elevated and red, white and blue fireworks were fired off for the 4th of July, Veterans Day and Memorial Day. Those Iowa class battleships are lasting tributes to America's resolve when faced with adversity and even though firing those main guns with full charges is unrealistic the sight of seeing red, white and blue coming out of them would be powerful.
HMS Belfast I understand has her A turret ranged on a service area on the M25 , a motorway which surrounds London. Something like that might be cool.
It would be really good to be able to see the loading position etc on at least one barrel on the ship.
I like how HMS Belfast is aiming at London Gateway service station, especially after having slept a night at that station in a lory (truck for americans)
good job
I would have left the middle gun at 5°, perhaps even on all turrets. I think that not only looks neat, you can still showcase the loading process, while having 2/3 of the guns -threatening the the skies- saluting. 😊
I like the contrast of Iowa's O vs 20 degrees on turrets One & Two. There is justification to keep turret three at 5 degrees to show the loading process .... w/tray, bags, etc. Keeping one set of guns at 0 degrees allows pictures right next to a "16. 📸🤳😎
There's also justification, for educational purposes, to have the three barrels of turret #3 at three different angles to show the range of motion.
Great video Ryan, thanks! I love seeing the internal structures of the gun turrets.
I like to see them at 0 or maybe 5 degrees myself. I think they look more like they really mean business at the lower elevation.
Are there any hydraulic components to raising or lowering the barrels? I didn't see anything other than straight electrical. Was any thought given to applying power to the motors rather than doing it manually?
Probably hydraulic motors.
The shaft might get turned by the flow of hydraulic fluids over some kind of wheel or turbine. Flow direction gives the direction of movement.
Don't know if that stuff was used 80 years back though 😂
From across the Delaware River they look best at 20 degrees, very impressive!
"Can somebody grab a shirt from the gift shop? I was busy working on something when the camera showed up." 👍
I loved Mid-Rats too!! Nothing like Ravioli from a 10-Can
I think turret 1 should have it the barrels in the three different configuration. barrel 1 at 5 degrees in loading configuration middle gun 22 degrees and 3rd 45 degrees to show them the difference early on in the tour and it will be quite striking for the outside
My idea for the turret position is a new one everyday. It would be good to make sure it is still working by using it. It would also make sure moving parts don't get stuck together. Maybe there are other reason engineers have for not doing that.
I like how the forward-facing guns of HMS Belfast are permanently positioned to score a direct hit on the London Gateway service station at Scratchwood. Gives you a real idea of the range. Also a bit of a joke as that servo is a bit rubbish and could probably benefit from a few 6" shells!
If you guys move them all from time to time; it would be interesting to see different profiles of her to mix things up. Maybe not all 9 but a few here and a few there. Good training for new volunteers and keep them working smooth. Its too bad Iowa has a stuck gun on T1