A Naval Gun in the Making
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Constructing a 15-inch gun at the works of Vickers. Test fired at Eskmeals in what is now Cumbria. The film supposedly dates from 1915.
I uploaded this film so that my bed-ridden father could watch it on his big TV rather than an iPad. Sadly he’s no longer with us, but I think that he was impressed by the footage.
For more naval history content (and other stuff) follow me on Twitter: / simonharley
Imperial War Museum IWM 580 Reel 2.
The secret of the well known superiority in British battleship gun fabrication was incidentally revealed here: Proper use of bowler hat and waistcoat at certain key moments.
A well waxed mustache was needed between them.
They say it's hardened in oil but the industry secret is to quench it in Darjeeling tea. Cheerio!
@@dmacarthur5356
Although their wives were told the gun billet quenching liquid was fine Indian tea, certain Scotts and Irish forge hands knew what all those empty bottles they found laying behind the soakers pits had held...
I spotted that
But not by the men actually handling the tools and manipulating the steel. They wore cloth caps. There was probably a point in the job hierarchy where one was expected to upgrade ones hat.
Served my time at Vickers Armstrong. Nothing we could'nt build. Proud of my time there.
visited Elswick what a grand enterprise pity to see it go
My dad used to run a radial arm drill there a long time ago.
What does "charging the furnace" mean?
@@markhonea2461 Not 100% but I think it means loading it with scrap or pig iron to melt. Also adding the things that make up the steel. Don't know what those log looking things were, but some sort of additive.
Anybody have any idea where the guns were test fired? Was it a Shoeburyness on the Essex coast. There has been an ordnance test firing range there since before the Crimean war. It's still in use, run by the MOD.
This is actually quite fascinating seeing the heavy foundry and machine work from that era. If this was from 1915, and I have no reason to believe that it is not, this WAS the high tech industry of the day. Seeing the machinery being used makes me think that it was 2nd or 3rd generation of that sort and I have to wonder about the manual processes involved in the creation of what they would consider as the "original models".
On a side note, there is a tall building at the Washington Navy Yard that still houses the machinery used to re-sleeve the 16-inch guns of the Iowa-class battleships. They would run cold water thru the rifled bore while heating the outside of the gun tube with an induction coil. When the 2 parts separated, the would remove the old worn out bore and put the new one in then allow the two parts to return to normal temperatures. Supposedly they still have some of the inner sleeves left because the Navy put enough of the 16-inch shells down range to require that many reworks of the guns.
Wonderful historic film, I am always fascinated by these massive iron and steel monoliths being moved around and always think about the safety factor and what it would be like now.
I also think how amazing the actual machinery to build the guns was, also a fantastic feat of brilliant engineering. Thanks for this fabulous film.
Brilliant piece of engineering processes.
All engineering student should be made to watch this to at least understand some basics.
There were clearly some brilliant minds around in those days...and not a keyboard or phone in sight.
I was brought up in Oldham in the 60's directly opposite an iron works, fascinating as a 5-10 year old watching the furnace as I was getting my ball back..!
When Britain really was GREAT!
A very interesting way to manipulate the billet while forging. The forge I worked in used manipulators to rotate large pieces . The chain method is something I was told about but had never seen.
Like! I'm a mechanical engineer, with an interest in artillery. As you might guess from my handle.
But I"m also very interested in the history of technology, so this film from a hundred or so years ago ticks both boxes. Thank you so much for uploading it.
I also couldn't help noticing the hats. Working men wore flat caps. Foremen were in the bowlers. And in those days, you did not presume to wear a hat above your station. So now I'm wondering who the gent in the Panama at the test firing was.
Once again, thanks, even if I'm 19 months late.
A Panama? Do you mean the guy standing at the top of the stairs? Looks more like a homburg to me but I think I know who he is... He's a chap.
have you read a book by Simon Winchester, an amazing piece on the history of precision called "Exactly" as a fellow mechanical engineer, it was right up my alley
@@AnthonyHandcock Months later....
Oh, I see the Homberg as well. But a Panama hat is made of straw and light colored. He's seen, I think, as they are loading powder bags into a cart then runs up the stairs.
I think he would be the spy; I see them dressed like that in movies.
@@Trebuchet48
That's the Prince of Wales, dressed in mufti, observing incognito.
I'm always amazed at how everyone is dressed. No gloves, no safety shoes, no hearing protection, no eye protection, no hard hats, and everyone is dressed like they are going out to dinner!
It was the British way of deluding spies that production was just a picnic.
Still very common to see dirt-floor welders in 3rd world countries but also including China closing their eyelids rather than using a welding helmet.
H&S a recent innovation. When I started working there was no gloves,safety shoes, hearing protection. Definitely no hard hats. Don’t know about dressed for dinner though, we were too poor for that. Still got all my fingers and toes, wife says I’m deaf as a post though….. I’m told.
@@thomascolville9438 if you can hear her say it, it probably isn't an issue.
Unless she's talking about some other kind of deaf of course. A girlfriend of mine called me emotionally deaf when explaining why she cheated....
The workers around the forges seem to be wearing wooden clogs on their feet and leather spats & aprons.
Amazing, I marvel at the way these men just carried on in such extreme conditions. I had to laugh at the man riding the cart down the tracks as its full of powder bags as if it were nothing.
Say mate, was that eight or ten bags of gunpowder we put in so far? Can't remember. We better put in a couple more just to be safe.
The sheer scale of these operations cannot be understated.the machinery ,the skill of the men,the brutal conditions they were working in.One wonders weather they were paid enough to recognise this.Can you imagine testing one of these.Incredible.
In 1916 shipwrights were earning 48 shillings and 6 pence per week. (see "The Battleship Builders"). That's 2 pounds and 42 and one half pence today. Shipwrights were the highest paid workers in a shipyard. Not sure about the ordnance workers.
Seeing the horse being lead past the trolly really put this in perspective. Its amazing how fast technology has progressed for the last 100 years.
wow must be seeing something i have not. naval guns have not changed and tech was frozen in the 30s. too bad we are looking at an artillery war in the near future.
You can tell the editor was not a machinist. At 7:30 it says "trepanning the hole in the gun tube" and the video shows them rough turning the breech OD. The trepanning operation isn't shown until shortly after after the 8 minute mark.
Mr. Harley, I had an uncle, Mr. Henry Cook, who worked at Scullin Steel, here in Saint Louis (USA). He said that Scullin, like Vickers/Armstrong, was extremely hot and difficult. But he, like your dad, was proud of his job. I am glad you uploaded this film. I didn't know all of the complex steps that were used in building a 15 inch/45 naval gun.
My deepest condolences. That was a very nice thing to do for him. Good man.
As a kid in Stockport in the 50s and 60s I grew up across the railway at Reddish. Craven Machine Tools had a foundry across the tracks, and in winter the night sky was ablaze with an orange glow and sparks flying into the night as they were pouring molten iron. Amazing, no health n safety then, Men were Men, and Sheep were Nervous as they used to say 😅
I'm sick and tired of hearing how great China's industrial might is,& how smart and inventive they are. Are the Chinese smart ? Yes, did thru the centuries they have some key inventions? Yes.... But , the west namely the U.S brought the world into the modern industrial age with the invention of the lathe and it's advancements. We ( the US ) can still be that power house of industrial might if we would get off our collective cabooses and take hold of that "can do " spirit and this video is proof. Let's tell China to " pound sand" and start building our own goods.... 1st quit paying young people to stay home.
Agreed, however sadly that ship has sailed.
The corporate fat cats are to in love with the darn near slave labor in China.
And sadly the average American worker is to darn spoiled and has an entitlement mentality.
This video shows men who weren't afraid of hard work. Nowadays work is a bad word. There's no way the youth of today could do anything like what's in this video.
These workers modern day equivalents are delivery drivers and retail workers. Progress?
Vickers now build main battle tanks at their plant in Newcastle, I used to live above the testing yard and watched many an armoured vehicle prove its worth.
I thought the Scotswood rd tank factory was long gone
@@charlesm127
It was a long time ago.
That’s incredible footage , the scale of the operation mind blowing and also a lot of flat caps 👍
the flat cap is why we had an empire ;)
Aye, lad. You only graduated to a bowler and clipboard when you reached Management level. 😁
Flat caps, heath & safety gone mad.
😆
I worked in a steel plant in South Africa 1971/74 and I thought that was dodgy elf and safety but those men took it to a different level. My main trade thru my working years was a toolmaker and I used to cut corners. My only accident was cutting off the end of my middle finger with no permanent damage
What I find even more impressive is the machinery used way back then. How many machines did they have to make to make the machines that make the barrels.
And the almost total absence of any PPE...
Just watched this and the 1st thing I thought about what are the pots made from that they pore molten iron into
@@nealedickson2859 Used to be asbestos lined, but they are lined with some other type of ceramic insulation that can take the heat. The furnaces are lined with bricks that can take higher heat than steel so they can melt the steel without getting melted.
all tech has its roots in fire. without fire there would be nothing
Simply, ‘Bloody Hell’! Incredible what went into one of those guns! Rule Britannia!
Bless you for doing that for your Father......
NIce deer rifles. A massive undertaking in making these guns. Great video and big thanks for NOT adding music.
That must be the foreman wearing the bowler hat.
The bowler hat was the safety helmet of the 19th century.
thank you for reminding us of a once Great Britannia sad to see how the mighty have stumbled. My two tours to Elswick are dearly cherished memories of Newcastle
If you watch some of the current YT films that come from Pakistan about engineering, you'll see that they are pretty much at this point in terms of heavy engineering. Not a criticism at all. They use a lot of reclaimed steel from ship salvage to manufacture everything from Civil Engineering equipment to washing machines. Its worth a look.
The actual firing looked to be proof loads by the amount of powder being used.
I was thinking that as they used four bags of charge. I read the rail guns originally 14 ins, later 16 ins used two normally but could use three for a bigger bang. However a big gun may be worn out at round about 100 firings. Then needs refurb or replacement.
Thanks, for this great old film. OSHA may not approve of their attire, but it was just a wonderful glimpse of history
The size of affairs requiring slow-motion activity by workers w/ hands accustomed 2 Heat, & all the wasted motion, such as tidying up spilled material, gives N alien & nearly sensual effect 2 the process; these people had no questions regarding masculinity
Looks like a great place to get some nasty lung disease, among other things.
Bowler hats, flat caps, waistcoats and suit jackets, a few in overalls. Going about their business as if this was a simple job like making a cup of coffee. Sound and captions for the non technical people would be a bonus but alas not to be on this one, very interesting and cheers for uploading it. My father was 21 years in the Royal Navy before passing in 2008, my sympathies to you on your dads passing.
They didn't show the process of inside bore machining. Just interested how they bore it out at such a long length and hold the tolerances.
Drawn over mandrel.
I believe trepaning was used.
The lack of safety gear for the workers is pretty striking. Those steel cuttings from the rifle station are very sharp and he moves them with his bare hand.
You noticed the guy without his flat cap as well, i bet health & safety gave him a warning.
Thing is, those guys knew their job, and had jobs for life (few changes), and also knew if things went wrong that they wouldn't go home. They wouldn't let the apprentice take charge!
I drove by the Vickers works years ago. Coal and Iron ore in one end, and a Challenger Tank at the other. The place was enormous
12:42 "Winding Wire On A Gun."
In *The War of the Worlds* (1897) H. G. Wells makes a single reference to *". . . wire-guns . . . "* being brought up to engage the Martians and I've always wondered what, precisely, he meant.
It seems reasonable to suppose that readers of the day would be prompted to think of guns of this type - that is, if the process was in use just before the turn of the last century.
Regards,
Kev
ps.
From the Project Gutenberg pdf:
*TWOTW* Chapter XIV "In London"
(Paragraph 21: ) ". . . long *wire-guns* of ninety-five tons from Woolwich."
pps.
In Chapter IX "The Fighting Begins" there's a mention of *". . . a hundred-ton gun . . ."* doubtless a reference to the Armstrong gun at Malta, but that's something for another *(vbbsmyt)* video.
-K.
100-ton guns equipped some ironclads in the late 1870s to the 1880s; there were complaints of the barrels drooping, & i suspect the wire component was of no help in this.
Very interesting, a time when Britannia ruled the waves and the world was built by men in flat caps lead by men in bowler hats. There was a large ordnance works in Coventry that made big guns too... I suppose the Royal Navy needed lits of them around this time. Would be good to see how the modern equivalent is made now (smaller guns i know) lots of automation i imagine and the only waistcoats hi-viz ones.
I worked in those same shops in the early 70s the tall building with the oil pit was still there even still filled with oil
Thank you for no silly music.
Could always just turn volume down or upload your own videos, picky
I'm always amazed how close these guys work to the hot metal. The largest piece of metal I've worked was only a few kilos, but being close to it when it came out of the fire was almost painful. I can't imagine hundreds of tons of steel being orange-hot.
You haven't had fun till you pour molten metal into a mold .
@@bill3641 I have! Last year I finally made my own brass from a carefully measured quantity of copper, zinc, and aluminum. It came out perfectly. That was something when the metal finally melted - I was sure it wasn't working, since the pieces still had their original shape. Then I tapped the crucible and everything just went "bloop" and sank into the puddle at the bottom.
I've also done aluminum and been present for pig iron casting, and done low temp metals like Rose's, pewter, and lead. It's a great feeling when you turn metal to liquid and cast something and it actually works.
Good!
Love how "hit it with a hammer" is always in there somewhere
Proof Firing of the Large Calibre Naval Guns 18 inch / 450mm is at Main Battery MOD Eskmeals, Millom Cumbria UK, the powder house was bldg 168, the Buildings at the rear are Bldgs 157 and 158, these were still standing as of 2015
Amazing. I grew up near Pittsburgh in the 60s and 70s. My father was a millwright. I worked in the mill during my college summers (Concaster and flat rolling mill). Amazing how much things have changed.
I like the picture of Captain America on the side of the ingot being removed from the mold at 5.11 That was an interesting film. I wonder where that particular gun ended it's days...
people go to a lot of trouble to kill one another
Trepanning that bore must have taken bloody ages without tungsten-carbide tooling...it'd take a goodly while even with it. (Bowler) Hats off to these men.
Thank you for uploading this footage amazing footage!!
It's incredible to see how much work and labour went into making a large caliber naval gun. I doubt that there are many foundries, if any at all, that can do this in the mordern world. Thanks for a very interesting video!
It's amazing what they could acheive in those days, skilled people working with raw materials.
talking to a guy that worked there recently, they worked to i think he said, point seven of a thou.
I've been looking for good well paying job, but I don't have any skills. This looks like the best place to apply.
Could never be that nonchalant by all that molten metal. All in a day’s work, I guess :D
For someone to think to give us all for posterity a look into the past on how these were made I am so grateful. Now I have so many more questions for these men, of course that's impossible. I hope that I can find some more of these videos with perhaps more details.
Just outstanding technical abilities for the time. See bouler hat, must be the supervisor engineer, with suite?
I wonder if Fritz Lang saw this film before he made "Metropolis"?
The height of technical innovation in manufacturing for the era on display here. These days we chase faster processing speeds. Early 20th century the health of a countrys manufacturing sector was in the precise machining of metal. Before & between the big wars battle rifles were finely crafted works of near-art.
They sweated on the breach ring! I'm speechless ( obviously not incapable of typing) I mean I get it, but with those pressures the breach is under at firing, not even talking about volley firing.
Very interesting film, thank you so much for the upload, wonderful...
Thanks for sharing. I do wish that it would have included an informative narrative for us interested, non pros.
I wonder how much additional strength was added by wire-wrapping the barrel? I assume that would depend on the strength of the wire and number of layers. What percentage of barrels were wire-wrapped and was there any particular advantage to doing that as opposed to making the barrel thicker or using a different blend of metals when pour the barrel ingot? I'm sure metallurgy improved eventually to the point where wire-wrapping would no longer be required. Thanks for posting this. Fascinating.
If I recall correctly - the wired barrels fell out of favour because they were less rigid and 'drooped' more when mounted.
@offshoretomorrow3346 , yes and the wire was piano wire. High tensile strength.
50% increase in strength or some other number? When did they stop doing that?
RN practice introduced wire winding on heavy guns in the 1890s, went out of fashion in the early 1920s with the BL 16" Mk I
The real "tech" in this video are all the HUGE Machine Tools. Real Progress is machines making machines......just wait for AI to mature
Сколько труда,ума и энергии. чтобы убить человека.
Am I right in thinking this is Rived Don works the oil quench crane must be very old and not the water crane current
Armstrongs was selling guns to both sides in the American Civil War, he was the worlds leading gun manufacturer, but whisper it because the Geordies are not supposed to be leaders in anything. He built an entire Navy for the Japanese that destroyed the Russian Navy in 1904. So concerned were the British Government at Armstrongs dealings with foreign nations that he was forced to sell his patents to the Government in exchange for a knighthood, this is the way Tyneside has always been treated by central goverment, they took everything away from us and and after the ww2 we became an industrial desert.The big gun making went to Woolich Asenal in London.
Unglaublich was damals geleistet wurde. Im Verhältnis dazu, sind wir heute absolute Nichtskönner.👆👆👆😍😍😍😍😀😀😀 Viele Grüsse aus Germany
Hunting .
All the wile watching this in my own imagination I had the original soundtrack to ' There Will Be Blood ' playing in my mind !
Another thing , it's kind of sad to think that the methodology and Technologies of this bygone time Are now effectively lost !
They don't make guns like this anymore let alone armor for ship like this , it will be have to be knowledge that will have to be rediscovered!
What an old gem of a film, full of engineering information, most of which we wont see performed anymore.
It's a pity that colour film wasn't available in this era to show the glowing heat of the metal and the foundry. I cannot believe how those men are working in those conditions without even gloves, let alone face shields or protective clothing. I'll wager the burns were plentiful.
And at the end of the day, all that work was simply aimed to kill as many other men as possible, and cause massive destruction. Such waste - of lives and materials. But mankind has learned nothing and still develops plans daily to kill people more effectively on a larger scale.
I love all the Georgian moustaches! 😁👍👏👏
My father trained in the naval dockyard in Portsmouth and worked on battleship guns while he was stationed in Alexandria during WW2. Fascinating to see how they were created in the first place. Thank you.
Okay as a machinist, i jumped on this video when it popped up on my feed. I've always wondered how they machined the triple breach mechanism so close together. But this video didn't show that particular process
The noise must be deafening.
That is a beautiful thing. Now mount it on the Dover cliffs, that should deter those ruddy dinghy's lads!
british superiority in armaments manufacturing and engineering can be explained by two rarely mentioned criteria... one, the total unashamed use of so many spectacular mustaches and two,the men never being able to work less than an 18 hour day even had they fir some insane reason wanted to.
Fascinating, my Grand Father was a blacksmith at Vickers in Newcastle during the First War.
The conditions they worked in 😱😱
I left the Steel in the early 1970s and it wasn't much better
Impressive indeed. My condolences re. your Dad. Was he an engineering bloke? My thoughts on this wonderfully historic footage... great film. Sad that the result of all that talent, all those materials, the labour and physical effort is probably now on the ocean floor. All that work chucked into the ocean. I hope the aliens dont see this film. They'll know we're mad.
There was 186 of these guns made. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_15-inch_Mk_I_naval_gun
22 went to the ocean floor, in Hood, Repulse and Barham, along with 3000 men. 2 are preserved in a museum. The remainder were scrapped and recycled and are probably all around us, as steel is endlessly recycled.
I forgot Royal Oak. That's another eight guns and a thousand crew.
@@DavidOfWhitehills There were probably plenty of scrapped steam loco pieces in those guns.
@@PreservationEnthusiast No doubt. Likely a few molecules from the first iron swords as well.
Mine too, I'm casting this to my dad's telly so he can enjoy engineering history while we sit together. Thank you for upload.
🔰 That’s so amazing that they had the wherewithal and the fortitude to manufacture those guns like that over 100 years ago👍
Pre OSHA working conditions.
This was back in the day when western countries were the manufacturing kings!
Not now no love for Britain
Not an ear plug or safety goggle anywhere on the property.
I didn’t see any auto fret age being carried out during the manufacturing process?
1:50 Hand charging an open steel furnace, not a glove or face shield to be seen. We were a different breed then.
All these machines are still running in pakistani nuclear rocket industries.
The foremen wearing the bowler hats….. don’t know if it’s true of not but I was told that they were steel lined, stopped them from getting the odd nut getting dropped on their heads, that was in a Dundee shipyard so I could believe it or if they just wanted to frighten him, get a piece of 20mm plate, write their name on it then drop it from height so it landed in front of them!
Their only safety equipment is a mustache
Look up Astute class submarine on youtube.
great video 👍👍👍
Incredible video!
Imagine the youth of today working in that factory...
Hahahahahaha!
Good to see the factory workers wearing their safety flat caps.
Having worked in steel works and heavy engineering hard hats just stop cuts and bruises when you walk into things, keeps your hair out of your eyes, stops dust falling on you. Anything large falling, swinging, will kill you full stop.
Do you have any idea when that movie was made? 1910s?
Thanks for post it. Very interesting!
If this is the prototype 15" gun, the Admiralty asked the Elswick Ordnance Company to look into the possibility of a 15" gun to gain an advantage in the arms race, in late 1911. As it generally took a year to build heavy naval guns, the Admiralty took a gamble and ordered the complete set of guns for eight ships plus 50 spare barrels. This is probably the single barrel the Admiralty asked to be produced early for testing, so possibly mid to late 1912. The Queen Elizabeth and Warspite were both laid down in October 1912. If the 15" had been a failure, then the ships would have been fitted with 13.5" or a 14", as 14" had already been produced for the Japanese battlecruisers being built at Vickers, and the Almirante Latorre, renamed HMS Canada, and the 13.5" were in plentiful supply. As we know the 15" was a success.
@@bellerophonchallen8861 Curiosity query. Would the main battery guns for a ship or class of ship be identical in all respects? Any differences between left and right (or center gun in a triple turret ) guns, such as direction of breech hinge mounting?
@@spikespa5208 the main guns in British battleships were identical, right hand hinged, interrupted screw breech, washout gear etc, so crew could swap from one gun to another and continue operation in action. The trunnions were handed in twin turrets and the later triple and quad turrets had different trunnions depending on their position. The guns operated within their own section of each turret, a splinter bulkhead separating them to prevent the entire turret being knocked out by splinters thrown into the turret by a hit. Each gun elevated and fired independently. Hoists and cages for the cordite were 'handed' as they ran up the centre trunking of the turret leading down to the shell rooms and magazines. As the shell and cordite bags were pushed into the breech by rammer this didn't affect the turrets operation in the case of a crew swap.
More interesting is the realisation at Jutland of the necessity of firing 'ranged shots'. Prior to then each turret had fired one gun, the rangefinders had watched for fall of shot, then the other gun had made adjustments and fired, watched for fall of shot, etc. After Jutland the rangefinders would fire on a ladder principle, firing one gun on range, the second slightly down or up a second later, and see where each shell splashed, and so be on target much quicker.
The film supposedly dates from 1915.
When we were brilliant.
We are de- evolving
Quite impressive for steam age savages
Quite fantastic
On this week's Forged in Fire....re create a 14" main naval gun using old truck leaf springs. You have 3 hours ....
When my mum lived on the coast in Deal, we could often see the orange glow of a (Belgium, I think) steelworks across the Channel.
I'd liked to have seen more of the turning and lathework, seemingly endless footage at the forge. However utterly gobsmacked at such effort and ability. Is this Elswick or Barrow?
I suspect Barrow where they still have a capacity to manufacture the modern equivalent Howitzers if and when orders come in. Part of BAe Systems now.
@@stevieb9699 I think they've sold off the Artillery plant now sadly
Amazing. Very similar to how rifle barrels are made but much much bigger. It was with this technology that Britain conquered, I feel nothing but pride.
Thankyou simon, amazing people making massive technology.
They make todays manufacturing look silly.
Now make another 100 😂