This course has a $35,975 value (a number I plucked right out of my ass) but it's only $1995 for the next two minutes! There's a countdown timer on the website that resets when you refresh the page!
@@kingserafoi8355Music theory is very useful the same way ANY "theory of art" is useful: it allows you to more easily communicate ideas when collaborating with others. This is ESPECIALLY useful in music which is generally a more collaborative art form. I always compare it to learning a language. Anyone can learn a language on their own, but a "native speaker" will understand the nuance of the grammar and rules and how and when they're applied more easily than someone who hasn't grown up in the culture.
I am Argentinean. My country has tuition free, open and inclusive university and non-university superior education. Thanks to it, I could sign up to study music at 35. And they assume people who sign up to study a degree DO NOT KNOW it, so they ACTUALLY TEACH YOU. I'm a nerd so I already knew half my Music Theory 101 course from primary school and singing lessons (and youtube), but they start literally at what are notes, what's a chord, how you read sheet music. I always felt it's such a scam for USA/Europe music "schools" to exclude everybody except those who are already experts at music, charge them up the nose then claim to have taught them. If you are really a school, take people who DON'T KNOW and teach them. ETA: I should add the full degree of Technician in [Instrument] (ie professional [instrument] player) is 7 years long. If you already know the basics, you can take tests and skip some of all of the first 3. But you are not excluded up front for not knowing.
As someone who just graduated from a music program, I disagree. I was mostly self taught prior to my undergrad and still made it into a top-tier program because I worked hard. If your aim is to make it in the classical/jazz/vocal world as a performer, you must be surrounded by like-minded people who are also great at what they do. I have yet to meet anyone who knew everything on the first day-quite the opposite in fact. To suggest that people aren’t taught anything through music school is largely incorrect, and I would question the people that express such experiences. While I agree that the tuition for many of these programs is ridiculously high, I cannot see a situation in which a program shouldn’t base admissions on auditions/interviews. Not doing so is setting students up to fail in the pro scene. There are spaces where non-majors, or other folk can go to learn music-such as community music schools, orchestras etc.
I am a freshmen in audio engineering in Czechia and I have similar experiences. what we have learned so far is very general (maybe too much at times) and very beginner-accessible. the tuition is also free here.
I'll be honest, I went to music school for 4 years (it's free here), and here in brazil, it's stuck in the past. No mention of recording, mixing, DAWs, textures, anything. It's the same jazz standards, the way they've been played for the last 60 years. The professors are stuck in the university bubble. They have great job security and no incentive to change, meaning that what you get that is actually meaningful is the interaction with like-minded people. Thank god it was free, I couldn't imagine going into debt for that sort of education
cara, é tão difícil encontrar cursos registrados e profissionais que são atualizados o suficiente pra tornar nossas qualificações mais profissionais aqui no Brasil... já fui tão confundido por descrições de cursos online, faculdades e cursos "profissionalizantes" e já vi múltiplos relatos de estudantes e no geral a maioria das pessoas recomenda você estudar por si com material estrangeiro se quiser se profissionalizar e tentar fazer isso tudo da forma mais informal possível é foda
hearing about the US college costs as a swede is kinda mindblowing to me. sure, we still need to take out loans for our education but the fees rarely go above 10k for a 3 year degree.
The colleges in this video are private schools and most are very prestigious, so their costs are insane. People can also study music at a state school which would be cheaper, although still nowhere near as cheap as schools in other countries. But the local state school may have less resources and less connected alumni.
I’m Canadian but I’m going to trade school, and seeing the costs of regular university is one of the things that reassured me that maybe I am doing the right thing. $4,000 for my entire education is nothing compared to the cost of both the prestigious schools in this video, as well as even the most accessible local colleges.
Something that taking the plunge on a creative degree made me realize is that I only had a surface level understanding of the industry I was attempting to enter, and even though I ultimately dropped out, I did so because the classes I was taking made me realize that I didn’t actually genuinely enjoy what I set out to pursue, but actually something entirely different. I went to (an admittedly poorly run and pandemic-struggling) film school and was constantly on the brink of mental breakdowns over how deeply I disliked the blatantly manipulative elements of my business of film classes, or how I was constantly being shown that the one thing I enjoyed and was actually there to learn about and pursue-screenwriting-is essentially one of the most thankless fundamentals of the entire movie/TV making machine. So even though I had a painful experience, it did help me come to realize what it actually was about writing that I enjoyed, and I figure other people who have tried attempting similar degrees in creative fields like music have perhaps had similar experiences.
My *very* general suggestions to anyone looking to go to music school (that weren't necessarily in the video): - Stay in-state and go to a public university where you'll save lots of money, or a public school in an adjacent state where they have tuition-saving policies for students coming from other states. - Always talk to your prospective faculty and current students/recent alumni about what to expect for your studies, and to your school's financial aid office for information on scholarship opportunities. If you're going into a performance field, be sure to ask for a lesson as well (preferably in-person, but Zoom is perfectly fine to use too). - If your field of study requires an audition and/or interview (from my experience, usually in the winter months), use that opportunity to visit the campus in-person and tour the facilities you would be primarily working in. If that's not the case, definitely still plan on visiting the campus at some point if you're able. - If you're a current music student looking into advanced degrees, *always* consider what assistantship, fellowship, work-study, etc. opportunities are available to you from the school. In many cases they can give you tuition/fee waivers, a stipend, and health insurance benefits. *Do not go into debt because of grad school!!!* I'm heading into a doctoral degree with an assistantship at a large public university next fall after getting my bachelor's and master's from somewhat smaller public schools, and the above tips have really served me well over a decade's worth of music studies. Your mileage may vary, though.
As a music education student, one important thing to note is that, often times, its essentially a double major. Half of your classes will relate to the music aspect (theory, aural skills, history, etc) while the othef half is focused on education classes, which include general teacher ed courses through the school's ed program, pedagogy courses for the different families of instruments, etc. In regards to the finances, choosing a school can also be LARGELY dependent on how much money each school is willing to give in scholarships. For example, a school with higher tuition might have a better financial aid package than a school with a lower tuition and may overall save you money. Great video!
As a music therapy student I agree with you so much!! My major is basically like a double major of music and psychology, both general psych classes and clinical musicianship classes/theory of music therapy, etc. It is a crazy workload and I totally get it, so mad respect to you
Went to school for Premed and minored in music as a jazz musician. Now 8 years out of school and used the premed degree to be a research tech to pay the bills and I’m a music producer during my nights and weekends I think the point at the end is the right one: have a plan before going to music school esp because of how expensive school is and it could definitely be useful for some people over moving to a music city hub and networking from scratch
This video came at a really important time. I'm near out of high school and have been struggling to understand what to do with my life after. Audio engineering has been a factor in my life for a while, but going to music school or going to college at all still seems like a hard sell. So thank you
i got into berklee and had to decline because the costs were too high. i’m going to a private college for less than 30k it’s so dependent on scholarships. I can’t imagine what it’d be like if I didn’t get lucky and that school didn’t give me as much as they did
I have a doctorate in composition. I'm in a ton of debt. I was told all along that I was such a good student, I should be able to get a full time teaching job really soon after I graduated. That never happened, teaching the adjunct life wore me out, and after being burned a few times by collaborators, I basically gave up on composing, the thing I really loved to do. Even now I struggle to find the energy to start back up with composing, just for me, just for fun. But you know what? I also wouldn't have made a different choice. Maybe different schools, maybe pick up a second major or a minor, but 9 years of music school made me who I am, and I'm proud of that. Also, they were a ton of fun at the time.
It was pretty crazy when you said you went to UMass Lowell, a place I am right this second as I watch your video. Go River Hawks. As someone who is not a musician and also does not work in the field I went to school for, I think this video is actually really great for a lot of considerations about how to approach your career and school!
I went to a community college and switched from electrical engineering and basic programming to music. I was hoping for live entertainment and physical music technology and got a tiny bit of that but mostly got using pro tools to make songs when I wasn't good at making songs. Saved a lot of money compared to something fancier though and got a direct hookup from my professor for my first job in the industry, working for the county's parks and rec special events service.
As a commercial music degree post grad, its as much of a mixed bag as you describe and the term you use, ‘you can choose what success is to you’ is an absolutely wonderful way of looking at it. I learnt songwriting from Jack Hues of Wang Chung fame and invaluable lessons about production from other people, and met 2 of my closest friends through university, on the flip side, some of the teachers on our course were so hilariously out of their depth and taught from pointing at a PowerPoint, I guess you get what you paid for I paid nowhere near the asking prices here, and yes I have learnt soooo much from RUclips videos, particularly Jacob Colliers logic breakdowns But for me, success comes with making my videos, doing the music I love and making the content I love. It ain’t much but it’s honest work as the meme goes. Great video, Thankyou for making it :)
It's also important to remember that you can change gears later. I think more people should take advantage of community colleges in the US as a less expensive way to see if school is for them right now. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, hard to know at 18.
As someone who went to Berklee for two years and then dropped out for financial reasons this video hit close to home. In my situation, I dropped out despite only having around a year left until I'd get my degree because I knew if I continued I'd be around $70,000 in debt. While dropping out made starting my career more difficult, I used the connections I made and resources I had from school to find work and now I'm happy and I am able to do what I love for a living. I think if music is something you want to do, putting as much effort into making that happen as you can without financially crippling yourself is how you should do it. Also, something I learned after school is that if you want to make music for a job, but can't live off that, there are other jobs in the music industry that you can get that can be your main source of income. Then you can make music casually without worrying about if you'll make enough off of the music you're making to live. I personally suggest looking into A&R cause it's what I do to make money for my music and it's really fun. Also, I had Cliff as a professor at Berklee and he'd play Mic's videos all the time in class so it was really trippy seeing him here, lol
this isn't just a useful and balanced look at a subject with the facts and sources to back up a playful comforting delivery, there's also at least 2 homestar runner references and an orville peck mention. this so succinctly explains why i am so fond of your work
i've just graduated from jazz school, and it did a lot for my confidence and musical knowledge. i don't come from money, but from parents who always believed in me and wanted me to pursue music. it's not for everyone but it was the best for me.
11:20 This is the golden highlight of the video for me. This is what I feel I have missed out on the most, working gas & grocery jobs thus far. I'm wanting to take the risk and put some of my earnings into the arts now (to build a career around my passion). I have focused solely on saving funds for so long & I need to learn to enjoy myself and the moment again. Seeing my lonely father in his 50's has cemented that working on yourself, being interesting and connecting with others on shared passions is incredibly important. Thank you for the informative video, Mr. The Snare
I'm an academic advisor for engineering students, and many of our students do minors or double majors in music. I'm also seeing more and more students working full-time while attending school full-time, it's rough. College has no business being this expensive.
Love that you shouted out music therapy. I graduated from music school in 2018 and I’ve been a certified music therapist since 2019. I absolutely love my job, and loved music school, but I will admit that I do get burned out sometimes,mostly because working a new job in pandemic times was very challenging. I hate feeling burned out just because music has always been the thing I loved no matter what, but sometimes it feels so consuming, and sometimes I want a break from it? I always have to remind myself why I loved music and why I wanted to do this in the first place, because the finances part of it can take a toll on you. Love this video, thanks Mic the Snare!
I sort of wish I knew music therapy was an option. I'm a social worker currently and bring my guitar to the group home everyday. But I love it, so I don't have any regrets
@@yourgooseiscooked6834 that’s awesome! Best of luck! It is truly such a great job and I love doing what I do but I do always have to remind myself to save some time for me too.
I think (as someone who did a music/music tech degree during covid) an important thing to bring up as well is just how much you’re willing to throw yourself into it. I remember having essays to do that were us just talking about music (our favourites albums, history based essays, etc.) and people would be lost as to what to do. Maybe this is just my experience but I think going to college to do music was a breathe of fresh air to be surrounded by people with the same borderline obsession. I do think it’s crazy when i talk to other people who also studied music and i’m barely able to have a conversation about music with them. As well as this (especially for audio engineering projects), we were very limited in the practical work we could do because of covid, I still saw people complain about needing to reference other audio engineers, producers, mixers etc. and doing the research they were missing out on not being able to try stuff out practically. (finally, audio engineering classes over zoom, truly horrible experience)
I’m glad you mentioned the Vulfpeck thing cause the director of my undergrad and current MA at York St. John University also studied at Michigan and we’ve talked a lot about music academia throughout my time there. A major focus of my masters has been on this idea of the higher education space and what it means to teach music and how best to prepare students for the world of work despite the lack of a direct career path. The plan was to give people as many performance opportunities as I could give. Open mics, supporting act gigs or even frontline gigs at grassroots venues, working as contractors or by commission for events, you name it. My journey with the MA has been weird tho. I began to click with the fact that the more I interacted with the industry and tried to create opportunities for the current batch of undergrad students, the more it felt like I wasn’t welcome there. Many bands, both of my alumni and one very successful band of undergrads, were able to secure a few external gigs this year and I’m proud of them but idk. Kinda makes me feel very disillusioned with the whole thing y’know? But I wanna go into academia in post-compulsory education. I’ve loved seeing these young minds shape and develop. Maybe I’ve just spent too long there.
I have a degree in Music Business, but decided I didn't want to live in LA or Nashville. I worked in live sound for about 5 years, got fired because the Technical Director wanted to hire his friend. Spent another 5 years in sales and now I work tech support remotely. I still volunteer some time doing audio for some events and play around with recording on my laptop sometimes but I don't do it professionally at all anymore.
Personally even though I didn't go to music school a lot of these nuances are similar for the degree I'm getting (and almost any degree in the arts). However I am so grateful that I just randomly happen to have like 5 different online friends majoring in some version of music education/music therapy/etc. so whenever I want to delve into writing my own music for a film project I'm working on I can just call them up and have them explain time signatures to me again. Also ITHACA MENTION!!! I didn't go to college there but I did live there for a few years in high school, it's a cool place!
Berklee dropout here. I dropped out mainly because of the cost, but also because i realized i wasnt built for the musician grind. I actually just finished my bachelors degree in english, and am really happy with my decision to leave berklee. I struggled a lot with not feeling cool or good enough to stick it out, and this video was very validating for me. I have lots of student debt from berklee that i have barely made a dent it, but i cant say that i regretted it. Music school gave me the tools i needed to keep music as a part of my life forever, i just wasnt cut out for it as a career. Power to all my berklee classmates who made it through❤❤❤
I’m rolling in to my fifth semester going to school for audio engineering (not at any of the universities mentioned in the vid, but one similar to Lowell, most of our professors are from there or Berkeley), and yeah this vid has helped me understand a bit more of what I want out of school. I’m not someone with monetary privilege, and I’m not exactly a great student, but I do think that this is the world that I can contribute something to and that staying with the program and pursuing audio engineering will get me where I want to be in life. I’m pushing as hard as I can to get experience in a real studio with real clients, but that kind of work isn’t really available in the area I’m going to school, and I don’t have a direct pipeline into a place of work once I graduate, but I want to be here and I want to make art, or at least be a stepping stone to help other people get their art out there, and also work with creative people in creative ways. Thanks for this video, and for always being an example of how to bring this career into the real world. Also I have to ask: what is it that the snare is being miced with? (not a 57, make it interesting)
This video is brilliant for me… as a 3D animation student! I really resonate with that “define success for YOU” sentiment… there’s a lot of hoopla about niche-art-degree-for-dying-job-market but I have learned skills in my program that have opened doors to like 20 related specializations. Plus, I love sharing a workspace with people with plushies on their desks
Smashed it with this Mic - I’m from the UK and did a Music Production degree. While our student loan system currently works more like a graduate tax, i decided that i wanted to do the course to broaden my skills, contacts, horizons and had an open mind as to what success to me looked like. I graduated in 2020, after a year working in retail i now work at a >2000 cap music/entertainment venue. Not doing any music rn but have gotten to do some projects during and after university. Overall happy with my outcome.
I went to undergrad for 6 years: graduated with a BA in Sociolinguistics and without debt (this was 2007). Now I'm teaching high school music somewhat tangentially influenced by my music minor. Life is funny.
Its crazy to watch this outside of the US, I live in Europe and the financial factor is pretty much non-existent here. Still a very cool and great video from you Mr. Snare thank you
This video was incredibly helpful, thank you for the time and effort into putting this together. I'm currently studying music at a community college and am planning on transferring to your Alma Mater in UML. It's been a real blessing being with passionate people and learning with them, school has been a great experience and I wish it was more readily accessible, the arts are important.
I'm going to music school in the fall and I think what you said in regard to whether it's worth it completely validates why I chose to go. It's simply not going to be about money and that can be a little scary considering how much money can dictate our lives, but I think in the end life should be more than that and should be the pursuit of something greater than yourself, whatever that may look like. For me that's music and I'm deeply excited to pursuit this passion further.
Musician by night with lots of passion but no music degree. Studied architecture, got me one of those nice jobs with health insurance, but all I want to do is music. The day job funds the night for now. Maybe music school would have been a better choice looking back, but for what I want to do music wise it wasn’t a necessity, and I was totally scared off when I was able to get a doctor if piano performance to accompany my high school solo and ensemble piece for relatively cheap because he was working at an airport. He studied with one of the greatest living pianists in the world, learned the insanely difficult piano part to my saxophone piece in like two run throughs, and yet he’s gotta play music with high schoolers to get by. I wasn’t about to sink that much investment into a diploma that could leave me like him. So instead I’m unhappy for forty hours a week for a different reason. Maybe I’m not really better off. Who knows. Money does seem to be the issue, doesn’t it.
Thanks for the video. This comes from someone who doesn't have to do with anything related to music (science), but someone that needed to listen to a thought and piece of advice
god this video was a hard watch as I sit here praying to get a grant for a music course in Ireland, but honestly by the end I couldn't help but feel even more confident in my knowledge that I have to persue music and make art that can help people as much as art has helped me. thank you mic, being loving your content for years now♥
Music school dropout here, I attended one of the schools that you referenced in the video, even though tuition has gone up a few tens of thousands of dollars since I went. One thing I would highly recommend looking at is if you’re not sure about music school, don’t attend a conservatory, attend a university with other schools besides a music school. You can potentially pick up another major, or eventually drop out and take up another major later down the line. This is what I did and it turned out to be very very good for my career.
Great video! I think the biggest thing music school will give you is an instant network of potential collaborators and the music industry is all about who you know so this is mega useful. Do I think going to music school is worth it just for the networking? Probably yes but only if… (a) you actively get to know people and take advantage of this opportunity to work with other musicians… and (b) you are planning on staying in the local area AFTER you graduate. That last point is important as if you move away after university then that network you just spent all that time and money developing will become near useless to you.
Happy to be apart of this! wouldn't say music school is overrated, lots of value there.. If we're talking about overrated schools I think you have to look at the concepts of universities as a whole in the USA. I think if anything, going to a concentrated subject school and being immersed in that world like college allows you to do is extremely valuable....IF you know what youre trying to do in your life. Like, I kinda wish I went to school a couple years ago instead (I'm 33) instead of at 18. Maybe that's why I'm getting ready to go back to get this doctorate? who knows I dont have all the answers, but I'm learning
I just finished my 3rd year at Berklee, and personally, it has been worth it to me. I really feel like it gave me the knowledge and work ethic I will need to be successful in whatever area of music I can get a job in. Building a community, learning from your peers, and making connections is HUGE and honestly one of the biggest parts about being here. Also one of my good friends Saxon (of S and R (listen to their music)) took a directed study with Cliff so it was super cool to see them in this video :)
Im actually going to school for music arts to become a teacher so this is very interesting to me, im lucky enough to live in canada where a year of college costs 30,000 canadian roughly as a high number, this video puts into perspective how lucky i am to have the education system i have. This is actually after my time working as a hairdresser which required another education, i just wanted to do what i love and to help kids get excited about music
speaking as someone who has spent WAY too much time and (my parents') money only to come up empty-handed after going and failing out of school. the only piece of advice i can offer (that no one asked for) is this: be honest with yourself. if you are currently in school, or considering going to college, not just for music, ask yourself "is this something i WANT to do?" and "is this something i CAN do?". school is obviously not for everyone, it requires a lot of discipline and good time management, something i did not have and am still trying to work on. i spent semester after semester failing classes only to tell myself "i can pass if i take it another time" and "i can get my degree" when in reality, i was only trying to do it to appease my parents, but after I finally dropped out i came to the harsh truth that school was never for me and I never wanted to really get my degree. i learned that after I spent some time in college. it's nothing to be ashamed of if you are in a similar situation, the only shame would be coming to that realization and accepting it WAY longer than you should have. i was scared to accept it at first because i was afraid of how my parents were going to react but i couldn't accept the idea that i wasn't going to get my degree, my whole life was my folks telling me that "success" was: going to a prestigious school (that i did not attend btw), getting your degree, and getting a high paying job. as i'm writing this i don't have a job, i'm in my mid-20s and i'm trying to figure out what i'm going to do moving forward. ironically, i still want to pursue what i initially went to school for (computer science) but i'm trying to do things my way, but i'm not trying to delude myself into thinking that everything is going to work out and that i can find a job in a month if i self teach. i realize it's going to be a HARD and long road ahead but at least now i can say i'm honest about it.
Man, this is an amazing video and I'm not even looking to go into music school. A lot of these sorts of thoughts apply to any creative endeavour tbh, and I really wish I saw this before I chose to go to design school lol I wish I was more prepared to leverage those connections better, to have a better plan in mind of where I want to go, of what to look out for. But anyway, that's hindsight that I simply didn't have 10 years ago. Very wise knowledge from the experts, thank you Mic for the video!! If there's anyone reading this comment who is in this spot, it is ALWAYS worth taking more time to think about it and do more research about it and then make a better, well-informed decision. Good luck to everyone!!!
Music school graduate here. Was it worth it? Let me explain my story. I graduated with a BA in Contemporary, Urban & Popular Music (CUP) from Columbia College Chicago in 2015. Chicago is definitively a vibrant musical city, and CCC is a great music school, with emphasis for composers, arrangers, vocalists, and recording engineers in pop and jazz music. I agree with the most important aspects of music school being alumni networks, collaborating, and developing soft skills. I learned so much about music history and understanding context in all musical parameters. Speaking to most of my family, friends and coworkers who have barely any musical background or interest, I dipped my toes in a much deeper pool of music genres, releases, instruments, criticism, and discourse than any of them. All in all, if you love music, you won’t find a better place to work alongside a wellspring of people just like you. I had a unique experience of going to school in between the end of one era and the rise of another. In 2012, I was working at a music and movie retail store and physical media was still very popular (especially vinyl). Spotify was gaining traction and there was no TikTok or Apple Music yet. Music education is based on 400 years ago up to the recent-ish past, so if you’d like to develop your own style or be on top of current musical trends, music school just ain’t the place to be for either of that. I’d be curious if current music school is at all equipped to teach students how to get a million streams on Spotify. To begin, I started getting interested in music way later than my colleagues. I dabbled in middle school wind ensembles playing trumpet, but I didn’t like practicing scales so I quit playing trumpet. I then started learning the drums at age 17 because of Guitar Hero and Rock Band, plus I have some family members who listen to rock music and who play the drums as well. I had no gameplan for ANY career path, let alone in the tumultuous music industry. After completing 2 years of gen eds at a community college, my 20-year-old thought process was “I like to play and listen to music, why not go to school to do that for a living?” I told myself for years that playing drums for rock bands is a suitable career, maybe being a session musician for many projects or joining a successful band would work out. Fortunately, I was privileged with a motivational family who could afford to support me. They literally built me a sound-treated studio to practice and record my drumming without upsetting my neighbors. Most parents would never invest that much time and money for their children, so unless you have a quiet practice space or electronic drums, I would recommend choosing a quieter or direct-input instrument to study. I can’t speak to everybody’s experience, but right off the bat, I had several disadvantages to going to music school. First of all, unless you are a fast learner and have all the time in the world to study, you will be alongside a cohort of dedicated musicians who are more privileged, more talented, or just luckier than you will ever be. Most of my fellow students started playing in gospel bands, or went to K-12 schools that offered intensive music programs, or have been busking or playing basement shows for many years. I was well behind the curve with my music education and had to take extra theory classes to fit the curriculum timeline. Next, I live in the suburbs of Chicago-still expensive but considerably less than living in the city. I could not afford to live on-campus, so I commuted every day to class via the Metra Northwest Line. I had huge FOMO that particularly affected my networking and practicing opportunities in between classwork and gigs. To those who can’t afford to travel or live in an active urban area with a rich music scene, I would not recommend pursuing music education whatsoever. The Return on Investment is not validated, and would benefit much better from creating your own content and developing your own independent scene to gain skills relevant to your musical passion. I am also on the autism spectrum, which grants me the hyperfocus necessary to harness technical skills, remember historical dates, and analyze a piece of music for its form, production, and composition. On the other hand, I am nowhere near the charismatic, the collaborative, the open-minded, or the “fun hang” type of person that benefits from being a musician or student. Overall, I was not a great student. At the very least I did not take advantage of my education as much as I should have. I felt great resentment towards my teachers for not giving me auditions for the groups and projects I wanted to join. I learned right away that most of my teachers are also active musicians who get first pick for any local gig in the area, so they had no interest in recommending me to their colleagues. I also felt that anything that wasn’t drum-focused (or at the very least rhythm¬-focused), or related to the style of music I wanted to play (i.e. rock, hip-hop, electronic, punk, etc.), I wanted nothing to do with. I half-assed my composition and theory classes, and all my recital attendance was procrastinated. The classes I enjoyed most were Aural Skills, MUHA 1 & 2, Songwriting, Composition, and all the ensembles I performed in. Finally, I had a very negative mindset throughout my education. The motivation I first had at the beginning of my coursework dwindled drastically when teachers repeatedly told me the following. “Drums aren’t a real, if not melodic, instrument.” “You can’t major in drum performance, you have to play guitar or piano.” “There can only be one drumset player, so either get really good playing the kit, or settle for auxiliary percussion.” “Your degree is not performance-based, you have to learn composition, keyboard-playing, and engineering.” “Music education is classical or jazz-based, there is no pop/rock-based music school.” And worst of all, I heard “If you aren’t willing to risk it all for your craft, like begging for change or working for exposure, perhaps you should reconsider your career path entirely. Music does not guarantee success or a living wage.” By far the best thing that happened to me because of my musical education was joining a touring metal band with fellow students after graduating, an opportunity I never would have had if not for music school. With the caveat being that the tour ended up being more a vacation losing thousands of dollars, but I wouldn’t trade that experience of booking gigs, getting paid for door sales, pushing merch, rehearsing and arranging a well-tuned setlist, and the logistics of applying for work visas and travelling across the country. I spent 2 years after graduation pounding the music pavement. Transcribing drum leadsheets for albums, searching Craigslist ads for drummer auditions, playing cover gigs with pop bands, volunteering for a park district orchestra band, attending conventions and workshop seminars at Berklee and Musicians Institute, and all while writing a dozen demos for my two-piece metal band using Fruity Loops. I turned 26 and was living the millennial dream: had no health insurance, still working many part-time jobs, living at home with my parents, all of my music projects dissolved, and I could not apply my bachelor's degree anywhere. Drastic measures had to be taken. I started working as a material handler at my public library, and decided to redirect my full attention to becoming a librarian. I moved out of my childhood home and attended grad school to receive my Master’s in Library and Information Sciences. It is now 9 years to the day since I left music school. I am still in the process of paying off $12,000 of student loans. I am 32 years old, married, a homeowner, and a full-time Acquisitions Specialist at the same library, very happy and successful with my current trajectory. I still play drums regularly mostly for exercise and fun, since my house has a soundproofed studio in the basement. I also stay informed with Apple Music, RateYourMusic and RUclips recommendations for new and old music, and I am still very connected to pop music culture. My coworkers call me the “metal librarian”, I am usually their go-to for all things music and movies, and I LOVE IT! If I did it all again, I would either apply myself way more to become successful or changed my mind sooner and not go to music school. To each their own I guess!
imo the best route in music (for work and stability) these days is in the live environment. Recorded music prices are going down, but the price of tickets are always going up. There is always a need for crew, lighting, stage techs, and the FOH guys I know are always in demand.
I'm still in high school. And getting close to my final year. I've decided to learn all that i can with what i got and then move out of my state. After when i save up enough to do so safely. And then i want to establish a music from a place not known for its music. And the rest is laid down with uncertainty and diligence. And I think i will be happy about doing that
This conversation really brought up a lot of my regrets about going to college without a plan. I went as a commuter to an in state university but 1) I still have over $20,000 in student loans with no degree to show for it and 2) I made the mistake of taking out some private loans and I haven’t been able to land a job since quitting the job I’d previously had in order to pay for half of my tuition. It just makes me wish that I knew what I wanted to do
God I needed this, especially that last section. I got an MA in screenwriting in 2019 and five years later work in admin in a law school. Sometimes I feel down that I haven't capitalised on my degree, and that's valid. But I moved to a country that is much better for me. I married my long-term partner. I finally got diagnosed Autistic and can seek official reasonable adjustments. Heck, there's a neighbourhood cat that loves me! There's still good in the world.
I graduated college back in 2016. Job opportunities have been difficult, but I think a lot of that could be due to my own confidence and drive to put myself out. As much as a part of me wonders if college was the right decision, I can’t say I regret going to school at all because I did learn some skills, found new interests, made new friends, and learned about other music I had no idea of before. And I was lucky enough to have my tuition covered so debt isn’t an issue for me. It really just comes down to me with what I do next.
I was confronted with this question recently, because I did a gig as an assistant audio engineer and the A1 coincidentally went to school with me. He graduated but I didn’t. I got lucky because I got a job at my local arts council, I started meeting people, and took private lessons for Ableton Live. But I had to learn disciplined practice after I dropped out and I had to put up with being the grunt, just so I could prove to people that I actually knew what I was talking about. The reason my friend broke through was because he emailed a guy about another gig and initially got rejected. The reason he said no, was because he’d seen this scenario a thousand times. A cocky graduate would show up for a gig, the smallest thing would go wrong, they’d panic, and the gig would be a complete disaster. But someone canceled at the last minute and he took a chance on him. I think both of us got lucky but the most important thing was that we were dedicated. I could have given up after I dropped out but I didn’t. I went out of my way to get better and I didn't let flunking out define me. He sent out hundreds of applications after he graduated but never heard back from anyone, until he finally got that one gig. We were both persistent and didn’t take no for an answer. Music school or not, that’s what makes you successful, and keeps you employed in any field you want to break into
Currently attending Berklee -- just wanted to say as a longtime viewer and fan of yours that this video helps tremendously in making sure to focus on the bigger picture. Especially at a school like berklee, it's very easy to get overwhelmed and get by doing the bare minimum (I see a lot of people doing this every day). The reality is, if you choose to go to a music school, it's in your best interest to take advantage of opportunities but also to create opportunities for yourself and *make mistakes* like you said. Being at a school such as Berklee, I sometimes find myself with high beams focusing on good grades, sometimes focusing on my mental health, sometimes focusing on my craft and my own music, and sometimes focusing on trying to get a burrito down the street. But the network is great. I've told many people the same thought that you bring up that the network is just as important (if not more) than the education. Even today, I was in an IHOP and the two people in the booths around me just so happened to have both went to berklee years ago (they didn't know each other) and they brought it up because I was talking about it with my grandpa. It's an incredibly nuanced discussion, but I appreciate this video for existing because it serves as a reminder to not take music school for granted. My family is not privileged, so it's important to make sure I'm getting whatever return on my investment feels like success to me. Thank you Michael T Snare
On the day of this video's release, I just graduated from college. My school is best known for its music conservatory; I wasn't a student there, but I know people there and got to take a couple classes in voice and music journalism I really enjoyed. I imagine each of my friends there would have a different answer for its worth; I know someone who plans to immediately go into work as a cellist, another who mostly plans to use their violin degree for gigs and teaching. But this video really, really spoke to me nonetheless. My degree is in creative writing, an arts field that, like music, has that dangling carrot of fame and fortune that only a few people achieve. That would be nice! But I'm also gradually preparing myself to work in a field that wouldn't have me write fiction as a career, and in the meantime I also learned general writing skills and how to give good feedback, both of which were part of what made my program valuable to me. I'm still in the process of answering the "even if I don't achieve my dreams, do I still want to pursue it" question, but right now, I can say that I at least enjoyed my time studying my art and at college, even if I may not be able to answer "was it worth it" for a decade. This is to say, thank you for this video, Mic; as someone who watched this video too late to make a choice, it still was, as you emphasize the importance of, a great hang. And I can testify to that being a crucial thing college helps teach.
The highly specific version of music school I went to was definitely worth it for me. I got a certificate in "Music and Recording Arts" from a community college. It was four classes at about $100/credit hour and taught me everything I wanted to know. I'm now in the process of trying to turn that knowledge into work, but for me it was about the knowledge and experience first and foremost.
I just graduated with an associates in Sound Recording last month and I also work in a relatively large venue as a monitor engineer so the value of my schooling was always something I thought about and still thought about. Before going to school I had virtually no experience making music so it was great from that aspect but in others working at the venue I’m at taught me so much more. Getting that opportunity was complete luck and happenstance though. I’m lucky that I have bosses who openly encourage and reward my work with the ability to move up the ladder. For being such a technical field I do wish there was a more recognized standardized way to get certified. Sort of like a trade school. Regardless your points here are more than valid especially how everyone takes their own path.
I went to community college to get my certificate in sound recording technology. No asscociates, no bachelors. I now do a lot of gig work, mostly shows now at a small venue. In my experience, I was able to get a lot of the same opportunities as people who went to five towns and were getting degrees, so personally I have no regrets in taking less school
attending LIU Brooklyn this upcoming fall semester to get a BFA in Music Technology & this video really made me happy with my decision to do so, especially the quote “you can choose what success is to you” going to carry those words with me to college for sure
I did music university for less than a year in the UK, my course was disorganised, the curriculum was basically made up and we were expected to self produce including live drums and vocals despite the fact that it was not said anywhere during the process of applying that we needed to be confident singers or know how to play drums/source drummers.
I just wanna say you made this video at the perfect time. I won’t get into details about why but I will say that it definitely helps me with what exactly I want in mind. Thanks Mic, have a great day.
I’m currently a music student and I actually think it’s been an incredible experience for self discovery and helping me figure out exactly what it is I want to do. I did not know what I wanted to do when I came into college, and I did not know what I wanted to do in music when I started at my university’s music school, and now I’m on track to become a music teacher and have never felt more assured about my direction in life. I agree that the entire question of “should I go to music school” is a big red flashing sign of “it depends” but personally speaking I think involving myself in music and dedicating myself to it educationally (and hopefully, as a career) has been nothing but positive for me.
I finished a Music with Technology degree in the UK last Summer and could not agree more with what Mr Snare shared. My band formed in our last month at uni and is made up of students who were on my course. We got to record an album in the university studio as it stayed open after deadlines and we played our firsts how in London this week. I studied so much music that I wouldn’t have otherwise and learned not only the soft skills Mike spoke about, but learnt that they are in fact just as important as any musical skill and got to actually use them in studio scenarios. Do i have a stable i come because of these things? Hell no! It is a constant stress and drain on my passion for making meaningful music for as long as possible, but going to music school has helped provide me with the best chance possible at making that my living. Helps that I worked really fucking hard too. (I run an affordable home studio in SW London and release music as Ewan Samms have a good day!)
i went down this path for games as an '18 grad and came to an extremely similar conclusion on my own. its validating to see the parallels down to the very conclusion of social growth, how your own unique plan fits the model of what school gives you, learning what value is specifically and personally to you. also, god damn, mic has some *connections*
I've just graduated community collage and got an associate of applied science for Music and Entrepreneurship (Music Production/business). I'm still deciding if I want to continue and transfer to a 4 year collage and get my bachelor. Thank you for this video, it really help me organize everything I need to think about and what to do.
GREAT VIDEO. I graduated from Ithaca College in 2014 for TV & Video Production. Filmmaking was my first passion, after practically having a video camera glued to my hand since age 13. I was always filming and editing things. It was all I cared about. Love what you said about the "experience" of college. I met so many great people and had fantastic experiences (and learned a lot). While at school, in addition to learning more about filming/editing, I also experimented with stand-up/ sketch comedy, and started making music for fun. Fast-forward to many years later, after working in news video production & editing in the Boston area for nearly 7 years, I went to rehab after discovering I was an alcoholic, got sober, and completely switched career-paths. I now work in addiction recovery and help lots of people, and make music (both as a solo artist and in a Pop-Punk band) with my free time, after 10 years on-and-off making music/ learning through doing. Out of all the passions I had creatively (filmmaking, comedy, and music) -- music would be the only one I still do regularly and stood the test of time. To a certain extent. Do I use my video production degree now in 2024, in my everyday life? No, not really. But the people I met, friendships I still have, skills I acquired (both creative skills + people skills), and my ability to implement those video prod. and editing muscles when creating long and short-form content for others when needed and for my band/ solo music... I wouldn't change anything. Everything in our path leads to where we end up. It really is true. Comes down to purpose and fulfillment. The two things that make me fulfilled these days are: 1) Helping people in recovery and 2) expressing myself creatively. That's how I define "success" now. Anything positive that happens on top of that, at this point, is simply icing on the cake :) -Sean [PS, At the recovery center I work at now I even had the opportunity to film & edit several 'testimonial' videos/ interviews for them and it was a blast. They somehow got wind of the fact that I went to school for video production and that I had a knack for it, after seeing some of my edits (music videos, long-form content where I told my recovery story, etc.) You never know what this winding road called life will present to you, and where something will materialize out of nowhere, where you can implement something you learned years ago...]
Went to music school for a semester over a decade ago at this point. While not even close to starting on my major I met some incredible people that directly impacted my journey as a musician and a producer. Wouldnt change it for anything, except maybe sticking around a little longer. 😅
I've got a degree in music ed. and I'm an active music teacher. What gets me is that everything I learned doesn't apply in my job and my job wasn't what I prepared for. It kinda burns you out on your favorite hobby
Music school turns a 1% chance of success to 2%.
Double the odds baby!!!!
Hilarious
1% are you crazy, its more than 10x less
@@uwize5897 depends what you mean by success
Sometimes it makes it 0.8%
music school is overrated. That’s why you should sign up for my $800/week master class with my code-
this is going to read like a bot comment oops
This course has a $35,975 value (a number I plucked right out of my ass) but it's only $1995 for the next two minutes! There's a countdown timer on the website that resets when you refresh the page!
music theory is overrated
Don’t hold out on that code now!
@@kingserafoi8355Music theory is very useful the same way ANY "theory of art" is useful: it allows you to more easily communicate ideas when collaborating with others. This is ESPECIALLY useful in music which is generally a more collaborative art form. I always compare it to learning a language. Anyone can learn a language on their own, but a "native speaker" will understand the nuance of the grammar and rules and how and when they're applied more easily than someone who hasn't grown up in the culture.
First we find out Mic used to DJ parties in the Pitbull DDD, and now we find out he’s also a part-time microphone salesperson? This lore runs deep.
Really putting the "Mic" in Mic the Snare
@@FinnianOBrien Thank you for spelling it Mic and not Mike because his name is not actually Michael .
OMG. There is a Alec The Snare. The Mic The Snare universe has been expanded once amore.
Thats not Alec, its just Mic in a well made costume. You can tell, by how similar he looks to Mic.
i wish my uncle worked at beyoncé
i wish my uncle was beyoncé 😔
Fr lol
I wish my Beyoncé worked at uncle 🤧
Wait, you're NOT my endocrinologist? Man, you could've said that 16 minutes earlier, now I'm late for my appointment
I am Argentinean. My country has tuition free, open and inclusive university and non-university superior education. Thanks to it, I could sign up to study music at 35. And they assume people who sign up to study a degree DO NOT KNOW it, so they ACTUALLY TEACH YOU. I'm a nerd so I already knew half my Music Theory 101 course from primary school and singing lessons (and youtube), but they start literally at what are notes, what's a chord, how you read sheet music.
I always felt it's such a scam for USA/Europe music "schools" to exclude everybody except those who are already experts at music, charge them up the nose then claim to have taught them. If you are really a school, take people who DON'T KNOW and teach them.
ETA: I should add the full degree of Technician in [Instrument] (ie professional [instrument] player) is 7 years long. If you already know the basics, you can take tests and skip some of all of the first 3. But you are not excluded up front for not knowing.
siempre coronados de gloria nosotros
As someone who just graduated from a music program, I disagree. I was mostly self taught prior to my undergrad and still made it into a top-tier program because I worked hard. If your aim is to make it in the classical/jazz/vocal world as a performer, you must be surrounded by like-minded people who are also great at what they do. I have yet to meet anyone who knew everything on the first day-quite the opposite in fact. To suggest that people aren’t taught anything through music school is largely incorrect, and I would question the people that express such experiences. While I agree that the tuition for many of these programs is ridiculously high, I cannot see a situation in which a program shouldn’t base admissions on auditions/interviews. Not doing so is setting students up to fail in the pro scene. There are spaces where non-majors, or other folk can go to learn music-such as community music schools, orchestras etc.
@Comment_Leaveryou still have to know how to read sheet music before you get in, in most cases
I am a freshmen in audio engineering in Czechia and I have similar experiences. what we have learned so far is very general (maybe too much at times) and very beginner-accessible. the tuition is also free here.
@@bestmartyworld7711kolega študuje v brne audio inžinierstvo a pride mi to tak že som dobre spravil, že som to nešiel študovať lmao
I skipped my wife’s funeral to watch this new mic the snare video, and I’d say it’s worth it ❤️
Worth every minute 👌
Damn
Lol same
yer wife aint goin anywhere, so you alright pal, made the same choice with me lady too when mic the snare uploaded last time ❤👍
Cringe dead wife
_Full Sail_ charging effing Juliard prices now is insane greed
The most notable Full Sail alum is WWE NXT 😭
I reacted the same way! 😱🤣
I was not expecting Mic the Snare to work for an actual microphone manufacturer, though that definitely explains some things.
BRO MY MEDICAL DEGREE WAS LIKE A THIRD OF THOSE PRICES. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUUUCCKKKK
I looked at the thumbnail and thought it was an “Answer in Progress” video for a sec
BROTHER SNARE REVEAL
TOP TEXT
Going from Vulfpeck, to Orville Peck, to Robin Pecknold. Amazing.
2/3 Pecks is an incredible ratio. If only Josh Peck went to music school.
Peak writing right there
@@TheKoNoGuN*peck writing
@@TheKoNoGuN impeckable writing
I'll be honest, I went to music school for 4 years (it's free here), and here in brazil, it's stuck in the past. No mention of recording, mixing, DAWs, textures, anything. It's the same jazz standards, the way they've been played for the last 60 years. The professors are stuck in the university bubble. They have great job security and no incentive to change, meaning that what you get that is actually meaningful is the interaction with like-minded people. Thank god it was free, I couldn't imagine going into debt for that sort of education
Onde vc estudou?
@@theozin.labrador Unicamp. Só recomendo se você quiser ficar proficiente no seu instrumento no gênero jazz ou MPB, se não, não tem muito a oferecer.
@@theozin.labrador unicamp
cara, é tão difícil encontrar cursos registrados e profissionais que são atualizados o suficiente pra tornar nossas qualificações mais profissionais aqui no Brasil... já fui tão confundido por descrições de cursos online, faculdades e cursos "profissionalizantes" e já vi múltiplos relatos de estudantes e no geral a maioria das pessoas recomenda você estudar por si com material estrangeiro se quiser se profissionalizar e tentar fazer isso tudo da forma mais informal possível
é foda
hearing about the US college costs as a swede is kinda mindblowing to me. sure, we still need to take out loans for our education but the fees rarely go above 10k for a 3 year degree.
The colleges in this video are private schools and most are very prestigious, so their costs are insane. People can also study music at a state school which would be cheaper, although still nowhere near as cheap as schools in other countries. But the local state school may have less resources and less connected alumni.
I’m Canadian but I’m going to trade school, and seeing the costs of regular university is one of the things that reassured me that maybe I am doing the right thing. $4,000 for my entire education is nothing compared to the cost of both the prestigious schools in this video, as well as even the most accessible local colleges.
Something that taking the plunge on a creative degree made me realize is that I only had a surface level understanding of the industry I was attempting to enter, and even though I ultimately dropped out, I did so because the classes I was taking made me realize that I didn’t actually genuinely enjoy what I set out to pursue, but actually something entirely different. I went to (an admittedly poorly run and pandemic-struggling) film school and was constantly on the brink of mental breakdowns over how deeply I disliked the blatantly manipulative elements of my business of film classes, or how I was constantly being shown that the one thing I enjoyed and was actually there to learn about and pursue-screenwriting-is essentially one of the most thankless fundamentals of the entire movie/TV making machine. So even though I had a painful experience, it did help me come to realize what it actually was about writing that I enjoyed, and I figure other people who have tried attempting similar degrees in creative fields like music have perhaps had similar experiences.
My *very* general suggestions to anyone looking to go to music school (that weren't necessarily in the video):
- Stay in-state and go to a public university where you'll save lots of money, or a public school in an adjacent state where they have tuition-saving policies for students coming from other states.
- Always talk to your prospective faculty and current students/recent alumni about what to expect for your studies, and to your school's financial aid office for information on scholarship opportunities. If you're going into a performance field, be sure to ask for a lesson as well (preferably in-person, but Zoom is perfectly fine to use too).
- If your field of study requires an audition and/or interview (from my experience, usually in the winter months), use that opportunity to visit the campus in-person and tour the facilities you would be primarily working in. If that's not the case, definitely still plan on visiting the campus at some point if you're able.
- If you're a current music student looking into advanced degrees, *always* consider what assistantship, fellowship, work-study, etc. opportunities are available to you from the school. In many cases they can give you tuition/fee waivers, a stipend, and health insurance benefits. *Do not go into debt because of grad school!!!*
I'm heading into a doctoral degree with an assistantship at a large public university next fall after getting my bachelor's and master's from somewhat smaller public schools, and the above tips have really served me well over a decade's worth of music studies. Your mileage may vary, though.
Me watching this like I’m not already in school, about to get my degree that’s not in music, and have no interest in going to music school
As a music education student, one important thing to note is that, often times, its essentially a double major. Half of your classes will relate to the music aspect (theory, aural skills, history, etc) while the othef half is focused on education classes, which include general teacher ed courses through the school's ed program, pedagogy courses for the different families of instruments, etc.
In regards to the finances, choosing a school can also be LARGELY dependent on how much money each school is willing to give in scholarships. For example, a school with higher tuition might have a better financial aid package than a school with a lower tuition and may overall save you money.
Great video!
As a music therapy student I agree with you so much!! My major is basically like a double major of music and psychology, both general psych classes and clinical musicianship classes/theory of music therapy, etc. It is a crazy workload and I totally get it, so mad respect to you
i love this mans content so much.
hey
me too 😁😁
Went to school for Premed and minored in music as a jazz musician. Now 8 years out of school and used the premed degree to be a research tech to pay the bills and I’m a music producer during my nights and weekends
I think the point at the end is the right one: have a plan before going to music school esp because of how expensive school is and it could definitely be useful for some people over moving to a music city hub and networking from scratch
This video came at a really important time. I'm near out of high school and have been struggling to understand what to do with my life after. Audio engineering has been a factor in my life for a while, but going to music school or going to college at all still seems like a hard sell. So thank you
All I can say is "good luck!" You'll need it, no matter what you choose.
i got into berklee and had to decline because the costs were too high. i’m going to a private college for less than 30k it’s so dependent on scholarships. I can’t imagine what it’d be like if I didn’t get lucky and that school didn’t give me as much as they did
literally same I went to a public in-state college and knew like 4 other people that declined berklee lol
I have a doctorate in composition. I'm in a ton of debt. I was told all along that I was such a good student, I should be able to get a full time teaching job really soon after I graduated. That never happened, teaching the adjunct life wore me out, and after being burned a few times by collaborators, I basically gave up on composing, the thing I really loved to do. Even now I struggle to find the energy to start back up with composing, just for me, just for fun. But you know what? I also wouldn't have made a different choice. Maybe different schools, maybe pick up a second major or a minor, but 9 years of music school made me who I am, and I'm proud of that. Also, they were a ton of fun at the time.
It was pretty crazy when you said you went to UMass Lowell, a place I am right this second as I watch your video. Go River Hawks.
As someone who is not a musician and also does not work in the field I went to school for, I think this video is actually really great for a lot of considerations about how to approach your career and school!
I went to a community college and switched from electrical engineering and basic programming to music. I was hoping for live entertainment and physical music technology and got a tiny bit of that but mostly got using pro tools to make songs when I wasn't good at making songs. Saved a lot of money compared to something fancier though and got a direct hookup from my professor for my first job in the industry, working for the county's parks and rec special events service.
Love that I watched this entire video about the value of music school fully knowing I'm already getting a music degree and am graduating in a year
As a commercial music degree post grad, its as much of a mixed bag as you describe and the term you use, ‘you can choose what success is to you’ is an absolutely wonderful way of looking at it. I learnt songwriting from Jack Hues of Wang Chung fame and invaluable lessons about production from other people, and met 2 of my closest friends through university, on the flip side, some of the teachers on our course were so hilariously out of their depth and taught from pointing at a PowerPoint, I guess you get what you paid for I paid nowhere near the asking prices here, and yes I have learnt soooo much from RUclips videos, particularly Jacob Colliers logic breakdowns
But for me, success comes with making my videos, doing the music I love and making the content I love. It ain’t much but it’s honest work as the meme goes. Great video, Thankyou for making it :)
It's also important to remember that you can change gears later. I think more people should take advantage of community colleges in the US as a less expensive way to see if school is for them right now. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, hard to know at 18.
As someone who went to Berklee for two years and then dropped out for financial reasons this video hit close to home. In my situation, I dropped out despite only having around a year left until I'd get my degree because I knew if I continued I'd be around $70,000 in debt. While dropping out made starting my career more difficult, I used the connections I made and resources I had from school to find work and now I'm happy and I am able to do what I love for a living. I think if music is something you want to do, putting as much effort into making that happen as you can without financially crippling yourself is how you should do it. Also, something I learned after school is that if you want to make music for a job, but can't live off that, there are other jobs in the music industry that you can get that can be your main source of income. Then you can make music casually without worrying about if you'll make enough off of the music you're making to live. I personally suggest looking into A&R cause it's what I do to make money for my music and it's really fun.
Also, I had Cliff as a professor at Berklee and he'd play Mic's videos all the time in class so it was really trippy seeing him here, lol
holy shit… Brother the Snare real…
this isn't just a useful and balanced look at a subject with the facts and sources to back up a playful comforting delivery, there's also at least 2 homestar runner references and an orville peck mention. this so succinctly explains why i am so fond of your work
i've just graduated from jazz school, and it did a lot for my confidence and musical knowledge. i don't come from money, but from parents who always believed in me and wanted me to pursue music. it's not for everyone but it was the best for me.
11:20 This is the golden highlight of the video for me. This is what I feel I have missed out on the most, working gas & grocery jobs thus far. I'm wanting to take the risk and put some of my earnings into the arts now (to build a career around my passion). I have focused solely on saving funds for so long & I need to learn to enjoy myself and the moment again. Seeing my lonely father in his 50's has cemented that working on yourself, being interesting and connecting with others on shared passions is incredibly important. Thank you for the informative video, Mr. The Snare
I'm an academic advisor for engineering students, and many of our students do minors or double majors in music. I'm also seeing more and more students working full-time while attending school full-time, it's rough. College has no business being this expensive.
Love that you shouted out music therapy. I graduated from music school in 2018 and I’ve been a certified music therapist since 2019. I absolutely love my job, and loved music school, but I will admit that I do get burned out sometimes,mostly because working a new job in pandemic times was very challenging. I hate feeling burned out just because music has always been the thing I loved no matter what, but sometimes it feels so consuming, and sometimes I want a break from it? I always have to remind myself why I loved music and why I wanted to do this in the first place, because the finances part of it can take a toll on you. Love this video, thanks Mic the Snare!
I sort of wish I knew music therapy was an option. I'm a social worker currently and bring my guitar to the group home everyday. But I love it, so I don't have any regrets
Ay music therapy! I am in college for music therapy right now, loving it, cannot wait to get experience in the field
@@yourgooseiscooked6834 that’s awesome! Best of luck! It is truly such a great job and I love doing what I do but I do always have to remind myself to save some time for me too.
@@TR-ru7wl There’s nothing wrong with spreading music around, and enjoying it’s benefits! It can always be music enrichment! 😉
I think (as someone who did a music/music tech degree during covid) an important thing to bring up as well is just how much you’re willing to throw yourself into it. I remember having essays to do that were us just talking about music (our favourites albums, history based essays, etc.) and people would be lost as to what to do. Maybe this is just my experience but I think going to college to do music was a breathe of fresh air to be surrounded by people with the same borderline obsession. I do think it’s crazy when i talk to other people who also studied music and i’m barely able to have a conversation about music with them.
As well as this (especially for audio engineering projects), we were very limited in the practical work we could do because of covid, I still saw people complain about needing to reference other audio engineers, producers, mixers etc. and doing the research they were missing out on not being able to try stuff out practically.
(finally, audio engineering classes over zoom, truly horrible experience)
I’m glad you mentioned the Vulfpeck thing cause the director of my undergrad and current MA at York St. John University also studied at Michigan and we’ve talked a lot about music academia throughout my time there.
A major focus of my masters has been on this idea of the higher education space and what it means to teach music and how best to prepare students for the world of work despite the lack of a direct career path. The plan was to give people as many performance opportunities as I could give. Open mics, supporting act gigs or even frontline gigs at grassroots venues, working as contractors or by commission for events, you name it.
My journey with the MA has been weird tho. I began to click with the fact that the more I interacted with the industry and tried to create opportunities for the current batch of undergrad students, the more it felt like I wasn’t welcome there. Many bands, both of my alumni and one very successful band of undergrads, were able to secure a few external gigs this year and I’m proud of them but idk. Kinda makes me feel very disillusioned with the whole thing y’know? But I wanna go into academia in post-compulsory education. I’ve loved seeing these young minds shape and develop. Maybe I’ve just spent too long there.
I have a degree in Music Business, but decided I didn't want to live in LA or Nashville. I worked in live sound for about 5 years, got fired because the Technical Director wanted to hire his friend. Spent another 5 years in sales and now I work tech support remotely. I still volunteer some time doing audio for some events and play around with recording on my laptop sometimes but I don't do it professionally at all anymore.
As a culinary student, much of what you says applies here too, so thank you
Personally even though I didn't go to music school a lot of these nuances are similar for the degree I'm getting (and almost any degree in the arts). However I am so grateful that I just randomly happen to have like 5 different online friends majoring in some version of music education/music therapy/etc. so whenever I want to delve into writing my own music for a film project I'm working on I can just call them up and have them explain time signatures to me again.
Also ITHACA MENTION!!! I didn't go to college there but I did live there for a few years in high school, it's a cool place!
Berklee dropout here. I dropped out mainly because of the cost, but also because i realized i wasnt built for the musician grind. I actually just finished my bachelors degree in english, and am really happy with my decision to leave berklee. I struggled a lot with not feeling cool or good enough to stick it out, and this video was very validating for me. I have lots of student debt from berklee that i have barely made a dent it, but i cant say that i regretted it. Music school gave me the tools i needed to keep music as a part of my life forever, i just wasnt cut out for it as a career. Power to all my berklee classmates who made it through❤❤❤
I’m rolling in to my fifth semester going to school for audio engineering (not at any of the universities mentioned in the vid, but one similar to Lowell, most of our professors are from there or Berkeley), and yeah this vid has helped me understand a bit more of what I want out of school. I’m not someone with monetary privilege, and I’m not exactly a great student, but I do think that this is the world that I can contribute something to and that staying with the program and pursuing audio engineering will get me where I want to be in life.
I’m pushing as hard as I can to get experience in a real studio with real clients, but that kind of work isn’t really available in the area I’m going to school, and I don’t have a direct pipeline into a place of work once I graduate, but I want to be here and I want to make art, or at least be a stepping stone to help other people get their art out there, and also work with creative people in creative ways.
Thanks for this video, and for always being an example of how to bring this career into the real world.
Also I have to ask: what is it that the snare is being miced with? (not a 57, make it interesting)
This video is brilliant for me… as a 3D animation student! I really resonate with that “define success for YOU” sentiment… there’s a lot of hoopla about niche-art-degree-for-dying-job-market but I have learned skills in my program that have opened doors to like 20 related specializations. Plus, I love sharing a workspace with people with plushies on their desks
Cant believe you got a guy literally named Cliff Notes
Smashed it with this Mic - I’m from the UK and did a Music Production degree. While our student loan system currently works more like a graduate tax, i decided that i wanted to do the course to broaden my skills, contacts, horizons and had an open mind as to what success to me looked like. I graduated in 2020, after a year working in retail i now work at a >2000 cap music/entertainment venue. Not doing any music rn but have gotten to do some projects during and after university. Overall happy with my outcome.
You cant fool me, you are my endocrinologist!
I went to undergrad for 6 years: graduated with a BA in Sociolinguistics and without debt (this was 2007). Now I'm teaching high school music somewhat tangentially influenced by my music minor. Life is funny.
Its crazy to watch this outside of the US, I live in Europe and the financial factor is pretty much non-existent here. Still a very cool and great video from you Mr. Snare thank you
This video was incredibly helpful, thank you for the time and effort into putting this together. I'm currently studying music at a community college and am planning on transferring to your Alma Mater in UML. It's been a real blessing being with passionate people and learning with them, school has been a great experience and I wish it was more readily accessible, the arts are important.
I'm going to music school in the fall and I think what you said in regard to whether it's worth it completely validates why I chose to go. It's simply not going to be about money and that can be a little scary considering how much money can dictate our lives, but I think in the end life should be more than that and should be the pursuit of something greater than yourself, whatever that may look like. For me that's music and I'm deeply excited to pursuit this passion further.
Musician by night with lots of passion but no music degree. Studied architecture, got me one of those nice jobs with health insurance, but all I want to do is music. The day job funds the night for now. Maybe music school would have been a better choice looking back, but for what I want to do music wise it wasn’t a necessity, and I was totally scared off when I was able to get a doctor if piano performance to accompany my high school solo and ensemble piece for relatively cheap because he was working at an airport. He studied with one of the greatest living pianists in the world, learned the insanely difficult piano part to my saxophone piece in like two run throughs, and yet he’s gotta play music with high schoolers to get by. I wasn’t about to sink that much investment into a diploma that could leave me like him. So instead I’m unhappy for forty hours a week for a different reason. Maybe I’m not really better off. Who knows. Money does seem to be the issue, doesn’t it.
Snare Family Tree lore has gotten so much deeper ever since this banger dropped
Thanks for the video. This comes from someone who doesn't have to do with anything related to music (science), but someone that needed to listen to a thought and piece of advice
god this video was a hard watch as I sit here praying to get a grant for a music course in Ireland, but honestly by the end I couldn't help but feel even more confident in my knowledge that I have to persue music and make art that can help people as much as art has helped me. thank you mic, being loving your content for years now♥
Music school dropout here, I attended one of the schools that you referenced in the video, even though tuition has gone up a few tens of thousands of dollars since I went. One thing I would highly recommend looking at is if you’re not sure about music school, don’t attend a conservatory, attend a university with other schools besides a music school. You can potentially pick up another major, or eventually drop out and take up another major later down the line. This is what I did and it turned out to be very very good for my career.
I went to Luthiery school. And I now have increasing interest in music business and production aspects
Great video! I think the biggest thing music school will give you is an instant network of potential collaborators and the music industry is all about who you know so this is mega useful. Do I think going to music school is worth it just for the networking? Probably yes but only if… (a) you actively get to know people and take advantage of this opportunity to work with other musicians… and (b) you are planning on staying in the local area AFTER you graduate.
That last point is important as if you move away after university then that network you just spent all that time and money developing will become near useless to you.
Those prices though... Glad I live in Canada where my bachelor cost me about 14K
Brother Snare went to Ithaca College that's so cool I've never been prouder of my school
Happy to be apart of this! wouldn't say music school is overrated, lots of value there.. If we're talking about overrated schools I think you have to look at the concepts of universities as a whole in the USA. I think if anything, going to a concentrated subject school and being immersed in that world like college allows you to do is extremely valuable....IF you know what youre trying to do in your life. Like, I kinda wish I went to school a couple years ago instead (I'm 33) instead of at 18. Maybe that's why I'm getting ready to go back to get this doctorate? who knows I dont have all the answers, but I'm learning
as a canadian the american music school tuition totals per year were EYE WATERING
I just finished my 3rd year at Berklee, and personally, it has been worth it to me. I really feel like it gave me the knowledge and work ethic I will need to be successful in whatever area of music I can get a job in. Building a community, learning from your peers, and making connections is HUGE and honestly one of the biggest parts about being here. Also one of my good friends Saxon (of S and R (listen to their music)) took a directed study with Cliff so it was super cool to see them in this video :)
Im actually going to school for music arts to become a teacher so this is very interesting to me, im lucky enough to live in canada where a year of college costs 30,000 canadian roughly as a high number, this video puts into perspective how lucky i am to have the education system i have. This is actually after my time working as a hairdresser which required another education, i just wanted to do what i love and to help kids get excited about music
I was just talking to some younger friends in regards to whether they should or should not go to college, and this video helped a lot.
Thank you.
this one has kind of ridiculously good timing - rising senior
speaking as someone who has spent WAY too much time and (my parents') money only to come up empty-handed after going and failing out of school. the only piece of advice i can offer (that no one asked for) is this: be honest with yourself. if you are currently in school, or considering going to college, not just for music, ask yourself "is this something i WANT to do?" and "is this something i CAN do?". school is obviously not for everyone, it requires a lot of discipline and good time management, something i did not have and am still trying to work on. i spent semester after semester failing classes only to tell myself "i can pass if i take it another time" and "i can get my degree" when in reality, i was only trying to do it to appease my parents, but after I finally dropped out i came to the harsh truth that school was never for me and I never wanted to really get my degree. i learned that after I spent some time in college. it's nothing to be ashamed of if you are in a similar situation, the only shame would be coming to that realization and accepting it WAY longer than you should have. i was scared to accept it at first because i was afraid of how my parents were going to react but i couldn't accept the idea that i wasn't going to get my degree, my whole life was my folks telling me that "success" was: going to a prestigious school (that i did not attend btw), getting your degree, and getting a high paying job. as i'm writing this i don't have a job, i'm in my mid-20s and i'm trying to figure out what i'm going to do moving forward. ironically, i still want to pursue what i initially went to school for (computer science) but i'm trying to do things my way, but i'm not trying to delude myself into thinking that everything is going to work out and that i can find a job in a month if i self teach. i realize it's going to be a HARD and long road ahead but at least now i can say i'm honest about it.
Man, this is an amazing video and I'm not even looking to go into music school. A lot of these sorts of thoughts apply to any creative endeavour tbh, and I really wish I saw this before I chose to go to design school lol I wish I was more prepared to leverage those connections better, to have a better plan in mind of where I want to go, of what to look out for. But anyway, that's hindsight that I simply didn't have 10 years ago. Very wise knowledge from the experts, thank you Mic for the video!!
If there's anyone reading this comment who is in this spot, it is ALWAYS worth taking more time to think about it and do more research about it and then make a better, well-informed decision. Good luck to everyone!!!
Music school graduate here. Was it worth it? Let me explain my story.
I graduated with a BA in Contemporary, Urban & Popular Music (CUP) from Columbia College Chicago in 2015. Chicago is definitively a vibrant musical city, and CCC is a great music school, with emphasis for composers, arrangers, vocalists, and recording engineers in pop and jazz music. I agree with the most important aspects of music school being alumni networks, collaborating, and developing soft skills. I learned so much about music history and understanding context in all musical parameters. Speaking to most of my family, friends and coworkers who have barely any musical background or interest, I dipped my toes in a much deeper pool of music genres, releases, instruments, criticism, and discourse than any of them. All in all, if you love music, you won’t find a better place to work alongside a wellspring of people just like you.
I had a unique experience of going to school in between the end of one era and the rise of another. In 2012, I was working at a music and movie retail store and physical media was still very popular (especially vinyl). Spotify was gaining traction and there was no TikTok or Apple Music yet. Music education is based on 400 years ago up to the recent-ish past, so if you’d like to develop your own style or be on top of current musical trends, music school just ain’t the place to be for either of that. I’d be curious if current music school is at all equipped to teach students how to get a million streams on Spotify.
To begin, I started getting interested in music way later than my colleagues. I dabbled in middle school wind ensembles playing trumpet, but I didn’t like practicing scales so I quit playing trumpet. I then started learning the drums at age 17 because of Guitar Hero and Rock Band, plus I have some family members who listen to rock music and who play the drums as well. I had no gameplan for ANY career path, let alone in the tumultuous music industry. After completing 2 years of gen eds at a community college, my 20-year-old thought process was “I like to play and listen to music, why not go to school to do that for a living?” I told myself for years that playing drums for rock bands is a suitable career, maybe being a session musician for many projects or joining a successful band would work out. Fortunately, I was privileged with a motivational family who could afford to support me. They literally built me a sound-treated studio to practice and record my drumming without upsetting my neighbors. Most parents would never invest that much time and money for their children, so unless you have a quiet practice space or electronic drums, I would recommend choosing a quieter or direct-input instrument to study.
I can’t speak to everybody’s experience, but right off the bat, I had several disadvantages to going to music school. First of all, unless you are a fast learner and have all the time in the world to study, you will be alongside a cohort of dedicated musicians who are more privileged, more talented, or just luckier than you will ever be. Most of my fellow students started playing in gospel bands, or went to K-12 schools that offered intensive music programs, or have been busking or playing basement shows for many years. I was well behind the curve with my music education and had to take extra theory classes to fit the curriculum timeline.
Next, I live in the suburbs of Chicago-still expensive but considerably less than living in the city. I could not afford to live on-campus, so I commuted every day to class via the Metra Northwest Line. I had huge FOMO that particularly affected my networking and practicing opportunities in between classwork and gigs. To those who can’t afford to travel or live in an active urban area with a rich music scene, I would not recommend pursuing music education whatsoever. The Return on Investment is not validated, and would benefit much better from creating your own content and developing your own independent scene to gain skills relevant to your musical passion.
I am also on the autism spectrum, which grants me the hyperfocus necessary to harness technical skills, remember historical dates, and analyze a piece of music for its form, production, and composition. On the other hand, I am nowhere near the charismatic, the collaborative, the open-minded, or the “fun hang” type of person that benefits from being a musician or student. Overall, I was not a great student. At the very least I did not take advantage of my education as much as I should have. I felt great resentment towards my teachers for not giving me auditions for the groups and projects I wanted to join. I learned right away that most of my teachers are also active musicians who get first pick for any local gig in the area, so they had no interest in recommending me to their colleagues. I also felt that anything that wasn’t drum-focused (or at the very least rhythm¬-focused), or related to the style of music I wanted to play (i.e. rock, hip-hop, electronic, punk, etc.), I wanted nothing to do with. I half-assed my composition and theory classes, and all my recital attendance was procrastinated. The classes I enjoyed most were Aural Skills, MUHA 1 & 2, Songwriting, Composition, and all the ensembles I performed in.
Finally, I had a very negative mindset throughout my education. The motivation I first had at the beginning of my coursework dwindled drastically when teachers repeatedly told me the following. “Drums aren’t a real, if not melodic, instrument.” “You can’t major in drum performance, you have to play guitar or piano.” “There can only be one drumset player, so either get really good playing the kit, or settle for auxiliary percussion.” “Your degree is not performance-based, you have to learn composition, keyboard-playing, and engineering.” “Music education is classical or jazz-based, there is no pop/rock-based music school.” And worst of all, I heard “If you aren’t willing to risk it all for your craft, like begging for change or working for exposure, perhaps you should reconsider your career path entirely. Music does not guarantee success or a living wage.”
By far the best thing that happened to me because of my musical education was joining a touring metal band with fellow students after graduating, an opportunity I never would have had if not for music school. With the caveat being that the tour ended up being more a vacation losing thousands of dollars, but I wouldn’t trade that experience of booking gigs, getting paid for door sales, pushing merch, rehearsing and arranging a well-tuned setlist, and the logistics of applying for work visas and travelling across the country. I spent 2 years after graduation pounding the music pavement. Transcribing drum leadsheets for albums, searching Craigslist ads for drummer auditions, playing cover gigs with pop bands, volunteering for a park district orchestra band, attending conventions and workshop seminars at Berklee and Musicians Institute, and all while writing a dozen demos for my two-piece metal band using Fruity Loops. I turned 26 and was living the millennial dream: had no health insurance, still working many part-time jobs, living at home with my parents, all of my music projects dissolved, and I could not apply my bachelor's degree anywhere. Drastic measures had to be taken. I started working as a material handler at my public library, and decided to redirect my full attention to becoming a librarian. I moved out of my childhood home and attended grad school to receive my Master’s in Library and Information Sciences.
It is now 9 years to the day since I left music school. I am still in the process of paying off $12,000 of student loans. I am 32 years old, married, a homeowner, and a full-time Acquisitions Specialist at the same library, very happy and successful with my current trajectory. I still play drums regularly mostly for exercise and fun, since my house has a soundproofed studio in the basement. I also stay informed with Apple Music, RateYourMusic and RUclips recommendations for new and old music, and I am still very connected to pop music culture. My coworkers call me the “metal librarian”, I am usually their go-to for all things music and movies, and I LOVE IT! If I did it all again, I would either apply myself way more to become successful or changed my mind sooner and not go to music school. To each their own I guess!
imo the best route in music (for work and stability) these days is in the live environment. Recorded music prices are going down, but the price of tickets are always going up. There is always a need for crew, lighting, stage techs, and the FOH guys I know are always in demand.
I'm still in high school. And getting close to my final year. I've decided to learn all that i can with what i got and then move out of my state. After when i save up enough to do so safely. And then i want to establish a music from a place not known for its music. And the rest is laid down with uncertainty and diligence. And I think i will be happy about doing that
This conversation really brought up a lot of my regrets about going to college without a plan. I went as a commuter to an in state university but 1) I still have over $20,000 in student loans with no degree to show for it and 2) I made the mistake of taking out some private loans and I haven’t been able to land a job since quitting the job I’d previously had in order to pay for half of my tuition. It just makes me wish that I knew what I wanted to do
God I needed this, especially that last section. I got an MA in screenwriting in 2019 and five years later work in admin in a law school. Sometimes I feel down that I haven't capitalised on my degree, and that's valid. But I moved to a country that is much better for me. I married my long-term partner. I finally got diagnosed Autistic and can seek official reasonable adjustments. Heck, there's a neighbourhood cat that loves me! There's still good in the world.
I graduated college back in 2016. Job opportunities have been difficult, but I think a lot of that could be due to my own confidence and drive to put myself out. As much as a part of me wonders if college was the right decision, I can’t say I regret going to school at all because I did learn some skills, found new interests, made new friends, and learned about other music I had no idea of before. And I was lucky enough to have my tuition covered so debt isn’t an issue for me. It really just comes down to me with what I do next.
You're telling me Mike Snare is a fellow UML grad?
I like the continuity in the alarm sound, nice touch.
I was confronted with this question recently, because I did a gig as an assistant audio engineer and the A1 coincidentally went to school with me. He graduated but I didn’t. I got lucky because I got a job at my local arts council, I started meeting people, and took private lessons for Ableton Live. But I had to learn disciplined practice after I dropped out and I had to put up with being the grunt, just so I could prove to people that I actually knew what I was talking about.
The reason my friend broke through was because he emailed a guy about another gig and initially got rejected. The reason he said no, was because he’d seen this scenario a thousand times. A cocky graduate would show up for a gig, the smallest thing would go wrong, they’d panic, and the gig would be a complete disaster. But someone canceled at the last minute and he took a chance on him.
I think both of us got lucky but the most important thing was that we were dedicated. I could have given up after I dropped out but I didn’t. I went out of my way to get better and I didn't let flunking out define me. He sent out hundreds of applications after he graduated but never heard back from anyone, until he finally got that one gig. We were both persistent and didn’t take no for an answer. Music school or not, that’s what makes you successful, and keeps you employed in any field you want to break into
Currently attending Berklee -- just wanted to say as a longtime viewer and fan of yours that this video helps tremendously in making sure to focus on the bigger picture. Especially at a school like berklee, it's very easy to get overwhelmed and get by doing the bare minimum (I see a lot of people doing this every day). The reality is, if you choose to go to a music school, it's in your best interest to take advantage of opportunities but also to create opportunities for yourself and *make mistakes* like you said. Being at a school such as Berklee, I sometimes find myself with high beams focusing on good grades, sometimes focusing on my mental health, sometimes focusing on my craft and my own music, and sometimes focusing on trying to get a burrito down the street. But the network is great. I've told many people the same thought that you bring up that the network is just as important (if not more) than the education. Even today, I was in an IHOP and the two people in the booths around me just so happened to have both went to berklee years ago (they didn't know each other) and they brought it up because I was talking about it with my grandpa.
It's an incredibly nuanced discussion, but I appreciate this video for existing because it serves as a reminder to not take music school for granted. My family is not privileged, so it's important to make sure I'm getting whatever return on my investment feels like success to me.
Thank you Michael T Snare
"School is not for anyone who's just trying to figure out what happens next". I cannot agree more with this statement!
On the day of this video's release, I just graduated from college. My school is best known for its music conservatory; I wasn't a student there, but I know people there and got to take a couple classes in voice and music journalism I really enjoyed. I imagine each of my friends there would have a different answer for its worth; I know someone who plans to immediately go into work as a cellist, another who mostly plans to use their violin degree for gigs and teaching.
But this video really, really spoke to me nonetheless. My degree is in creative writing, an arts field that, like music, has that dangling carrot of fame and fortune that only a few people achieve. That would be nice! But I'm also gradually preparing myself to work in a field that wouldn't have me write fiction as a career, and in the meantime I also learned general writing skills and how to give good feedback, both of which were part of what made my program valuable to me. I'm still in the process of answering the "even if I don't achieve my dreams, do I still want to pursue it" question, but right now, I can say that I at least enjoyed my time studying my art and at college, even if I may not be able to answer "was it worth it" for a decade.
This is to say, thank you for this video, Mic; as someone who watched this video too late to make a choice, it still was, as you emphasize the importance of, a great hang. And I can testify to that being a crucial thing college helps teach.
The highly specific version of music school I went to was definitely worth it for me. I got a certificate in "Music and Recording Arts" from a community college. It was four classes at about $100/credit hour and taught me everything I wanted to know. I'm now in the process of trying to turn that knowledge into work, but for me it was about the knowledge and experience first and foremost.
Just graduated from an audio programme and struggling find my place, this video helped a lot. Great vid!
I just graduated with an associates in Sound Recording last month and I also work in a relatively large venue as a monitor engineer so the value of my schooling was always something I thought about and still thought about. Before going to school I had virtually no experience making music so it was great from that aspect but in others working at the venue I’m at taught me so much more. Getting that opportunity was complete luck and happenstance though. I’m lucky that I have bosses who openly encourage and reward my work with the ability to move up the ladder. For being such a technical field I do wish there was a more recognized standardized way to get certified. Sort of like a trade school. Regardless your points here are more than valid especially how everyone takes their own path.
I went to community college to get my certificate in sound recording technology. No asscociates, no bachelors. I now do a lot of gig work, mostly shows now at a small venue. In my experience, I was able to get a lot of the same opportunities as people who went to five towns and were getting degrees, so personally I have no regrets in taking less school
I feel like this video is applicable to almost any kind of creative field. Thank you.
attending LIU Brooklyn this upcoming fall semester to get a BFA in Music Technology & this video really made me happy with my decision to do so, especially the quote “you can choose what success is to you”
going to carry those words with me to college for sure
I did music university for less than a year in the UK, my course was disorganised, the curriculum was basically made up and we were expected to self produce including live drums and vocals despite the fact that it was not said anywhere during the process of applying that we needed to be confident singers or know how to play drums/source drummers.
I just wanna say you made this video at the perfect time. I won’t get into details about why but I will say that it definitely helps me with what exactly I want in mind.
Thanks Mic, have a great day.
Yoooo, shoutout to Alex! I miss singing with you dude!
And Mic, which mic brand do you work for??
Also, love the thumbnail details!
I’m currently a music student and I actually think it’s been an incredible experience for self discovery and helping me figure out exactly what it is I want to do. I did not know what I wanted to do when I came into college, and I did not know what I wanted to do in music when I started at my university’s music school, and now I’m on track to become a music teacher and have never felt more assured about my direction in life.
I agree that the entire question of “should I go to music school” is a big red flashing sign of “it depends” but personally speaking I think involving myself in music and dedicating myself to it educationally (and hopefully, as a career) has been nothing but positive for me.
I finished a Music with Technology degree in the UK last Summer and could not agree more with what Mr Snare shared. My band formed in our last month at uni and is made up of students who were on my course. We got to record an album in the university studio as it stayed open after deadlines and we played our firsts how in London this week. I studied so much music that I wouldn’t have otherwise and learned not only the soft skills Mike spoke about, but learnt that they are in fact just as important as any musical skill and got to actually use them in studio scenarios. Do i have a stable i come because of these things? Hell no! It is a constant stress and drain on my passion for making meaningful music for as long as possible, but going to music school has helped provide me with the best chance possible at making that my living. Helps that I worked really fucking hard too. (I run an affordable home studio in SW London and release music as Ewan Samms have a good day!)
error at 13:33 on the subtitles "everyone involved-- Peck" instead of "everyone in Vulfpeck"
i went down this path for games as an '18 grad and came to an extremely similar conclusion on my own. its validating to see the parallels down to the very conclusion of social growth, how your own unique plan fits the model of what school gives you, learning what value is specifically and personally to you. also, god damn, mic has some *connections*
I've just graduated community collage and got an associate of applied science for Music and Entrepreneurship (Music Production/business). I'm still deciding if I want to continue and transfer to a 4 year collage and get my bachelor. Thank you for this video, it really help me organize everything I need to think about and what to do.
GREAT VIDEO. I graduated from Ithaca College in 2014 for TV & Video Production. Filmmaking was my first passion, after practically having a video camera glued to my hand since age 13. I was always filming and editing things. It was all I cared about. Love what you said about the "experience" of college. I met so many great people and had fantastic experiences (and learned a lot). While at school, in addition to learning more about filming/editing, I also experimented with stand-up/ sketch comedy, and started making music for fun.
Fast-forward to many years later, after working in news video production & editing in the Boston area for nearly 7 years, I went to rehab after discovering I was an alcoholic, got sober, and completely switched career-paths. I now work in addiction recovery and help lots of people, and make music (both as a solo artist and in a Pop-Punk band) with my free time, after 10 years on-and-off making music/ learning through doing.
Out of all the passions I had creatively (filmmaking, comedy, and music) -- music would be the only one I still do regularly and stood the test of time. To a certain extent.
Do I use my video production degree now in 2024, in my everyday life? No, not really. But the people I met, friendships I still have, skills I acquired (both creative skills + people skills), and my ability to implement those video prod. and editing muscles when creating long and short-form content for others when needed and for my band/ solo music... I wouldn't change anything. Everything in our path leads to where we end up. It really is true. Comes down to purpose and fulfillment. The two things that make me fulfilled these days are: 1) Helping people in recovery and 2) expressing myself creatively. That's how I define "success" now. Anything positive that happens on top of that, at this point, is simply icing on the cake :)
-Sean
[PS, At the recovery center I work at now I even had the opportunity to film & edit several 'testimonial' videos/ interviews for them and it was a blast. They somehow got wind of the fact that I went to school for video production and that I had a knack for it, after seeing some of my edits (music videos, long-form content where I told my recovery story, etc.) You never know what this winding road called life will present to you, and where something will materialize out of nowhere, where you can implement something you learned years ago...]
I’m not going to a music school but to an art school and I think this was still very valuable.
Went to music school for a semester over a decade ago at this point.
While not even close to starting on my major I met some incredible people that directly impacted my journey as a musician and a producer. Wouldnt change it for anything, except maybe sticking around a little longer. 😅
10/10 agree. it’s complicated and therefore important to share actual information about these things so people can make more informed decisions!
I've got a degree in music ed. and I'm an active music teacher. What gets me is that everything I learned doesn't apply in my job and my job wasn't what I prepared for. It kinda burns you out on your favorite hobby