Moneyball (2011) Player Value Scene | Movie Scene HD
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) and Peter Brand (Jonah Hill) come up with a new way of evaluating baseball players, using Sabermetrics.
Scene from Moneyball (2011), based on the book of the same name, based on real life events.
One of my personal favorite movies.
![Moneyball - The Streak [1080p HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nK1jtVhimPA/mqdefault.jpg)
I know everyone talks about Brad Pitt in this movie, but Jonah Hill basically owns every scene he is in.
Probably his best performance
I respectfully disagree. Jonah Hill had a solid performance no doubt about it but I think it was overvalued because it was his first major non-comedic role. In Wolf of Wall Street he 100% deserved the Oscar nomination he got maybe even the win.
@@RonnieR29 Yeah Wolf is a close second for me. But that was another comedic role
Bynnel I honestly think war dogs is his best role
@@darkkeg4217 I couldn't stand his fake laugh in that one
Chad Bradord watching this scene thinking, "Wait I should have got 3 million instead of 237,000?"
He wouldn't have even been in the bugs without them. He can take a small pay cut for a year. Lol
He did end up making 3mil/year by the end of his career (with Baltimore and Tampa Bay)
Yeah, if anything it gave him the opportunity to prove that he was worth more than his paycheck. In other bullpens he'd have been "just another relief pitcher".
Yet anyone of us would gladly take a salary of 237, 000 a year and they don't work the entire year either . That's really for half a year .
@@TheGodfather-bm3ow Baseball spring training, regular season and playoffs are two/thirds of a year or 8 months
I think I undervalue Jonah Hill as an actor
Aaron Slein same, I think it’s because he synchs with his character so well that it doesnt feel like he’s “acting”, rather just being his normal self. Kinda feels like cheating so my mind undervalues him lol
@paperchasin23 I actually think this role and his one from War Dogs was great, he plays hesitant confidence and knowledge exactly how I would see it
Hes got decent range
I mean he gets on base :0
They were going to spend millions on a great actor...they got Jonah for 237k.
whiskey builder ha ha I see what you did there
What a beautifully crafted movie. The cinematography, the soundtrack, the characters, casting, acting, dialogue writing & delivery.
I very rarely say this about movies (because very rarely do I see this in movies)... Not a single flaw I can pick out about this masterpiece.
I agree. A similar movie was The Big Short. In both of these movies, I came away shocked saying the same thing you did ... I was like, "holy shit, that movie was so well done."
It's no wonder it was nominated for six Oscars. It's a crime they didn't win any.
@@Mybpeterson This movie was undervalued.
@@flagtheoffense and both books for those movies are written by Michael Lewis. Greatest author of our generation in my opinion. Storytellig ability is unbelievable drawing
@@dylanwatt7461 did not know that.
This movie shows the science behind baseball. A lot of people don’t realize how much goes into the game, and all the decisions a manager has to make. It’s a great movie
Not just the manager/coach-who’s usually the star of sports films if not the player(s)-but in this case, the manager of the manager. Not to mention, the manager of the manager of the manager in _Moneyball_ gets two scenes to exercise his authority and mercy.
It shows the science of baseball up until the point that you remember with all their number crunching and science, the A's never won a damn thing
@nateputerbaugh5709 because now every team does this.
You see it in every aspect of the game now, down to the field shifts.
@@nateputerbaugh5709The A’s were the first team to do it, and although the didn’t win anything it proved it could work. Now every single WS winner has a analytics department. Not just in baseball but all professional sports
The statistical analysis,,,,,,,,,it's beautiful 😭😭
It's both terrifying and beautiful how mathematics can define or redefine us.
Man, you just get to appreciate this more if you are a baseball fan.
Not that this fact takes away anything from this scene but I looked up Chad Bradford’s career and he appeared in 35 games for the 2001 Oakland A’s. I noticed Jeremy Giambi also played for the ‘01 A’s, appearing in the majority of games they played. I just find it interesting that the movie makes it seem like these guys were new to the team in 2002 when in reality they played for them in the season prior. Again, beautiful scene! I just found that interesting.
Probably just for dramatic effect
Jonah Hill's character, Peter Brand, isn't a real person, but is mostly based off of Paul DePodesta who was one of Billy Bean's assistants. He joined the organization in 1999. It is likely that this conversation about Bradford is based off a real one that happened before the 2001 season. For narrative purposes they placed some events in the 2002 season, even if they didn't happen in that season.
Jeremy had been with the team since 2000
The only thing better than finding the undervalued asset is knowing that all of your peers passed on them.
One of the reasons this movie is so great is because while they try to build the team just by the stats and numbers there are a lot of human elements involved. And those human elements can't always be quantified. As an example, how does a player perform in crunch time? Sometimes you can see that in the numbers and sometimes you can't. Sometimes a player outperforms his stats because he wants to help the team or because he's thankful for the opportunity he was given. And different people are motivated by different things. And a wise GM and a manager or coach is going to learn what motivates their players individually to coax them into better performances at certain times. One player you tell him he can do it and he performs better. Another player you kind of insinuate that he can't do it and he gets pissed off and makes it happen. Kind of guys I like to have on any team I'm ever on are guys who play hard and never quit and keep trying to win no matter what. That isn't always in the stats or the numbers. And really the most touching moments in this movie are the human ones. For instance, when Chris Pratt's character gets offered a contract and then hugs his family knowing that he'll be able to support them. And that pays off later when he gets that home run to win the game. Despite the fact that that wasn't really in the numbers!
Billy Beane found a new way to define success for a baseball player. In the end, he applies the same principle to himself. He never got the ring, but he realized that he was a loving father and a man who changed the game of baseball forever, and that's a bigger W.
I go back to watching this movie every month it’s inspires me and I don’t watch baseball
Don't know why but this scene always makes me tear up a bit. I think it's about the "under-valuing people" part.. Guilty as charged.
the way he goes "47. Actually, 51. I don't know why I lied just then." LMAO this is actually something I do all the time.
Jonah hill is such a talented actor I’m so happy that he got a chance to show his talent outside of his comedic.
I don't know why, but the bgm takes me to my mom's family home. They lost it to the bank 20 years ago, since I first heard this bgm it always takes me to them old days, so much so, that I bought the place back last year. I just can't explain the feeling it gives me.
Like an Island of Misfit toys ,thats my line there
Music is perfectly paired here. Bravo
The soundtrack is absolutely perfect 👌🏻
I luv Brad Pitt and Jonah Hill as actors both of them in different roles that they have played in my opinion but the combination of the both of them in this movie in my opinion is utterly outstanding it totally shows the depth they can reach in making me totally believe the story it's all about connection ie that brad and Jonah have respect much luv!!!!!!!
This Will Destroy You - The Mighty Grand Rio
Thank you, Aaron Sorkin..
He's the Warren Buffet of GM's 😂
This was such a great movie.
A baseball movie math geeks love! Great movie!
The world doesn't value what you do. It values how you market it.
This is a great story of a small market major league team, in it's last gasp trying to survive against competition that could outspend them 3 or 4 to one. Unfortunately, the story is played out because the other teams figured this out, too. Now, teams like the Yankees and Red Sox continue to use teams like the A's as their "farm team", taking all the best players. I was a die hard A's fan until some years ago, when I figured this out and decided that banging my head against a concrete wall (as a fan) wasn't fun. Imagine that?
One of Brad Pitt's Best Movie from 2011 by Columbia Pictures.
The power of Data Science ❤️
Billy: I asked you to do 3 to evaluate 3 players.....how many did you do?
Pete: 47
Billy: Ok.
Pete: Actually 51, I don't know why I lied just then
Haven't seen this movie in over a decade and I don't know how I got to this clip but it's just crazy how Oakland As are still in this position where they go on fire sale about every 4 years. It's sad that a great franchise like this that has won 9 titles, more than my favorite team Dodgers, is on a verge of bankruptcy and rumors about moving to Las Vegas. Now, they even lost their manager Bob Melvin, along with top players like Matt Olson, Sean Manaea, Matt Chapman, etc.
Great movie that happens to be about baseball.
After some thought I get what he is saying about Bradford but i get why people don't pick him up. As much as I love watching submarine and sidearm pitches more than any overhand pitcher they would be impossible for most to work with. It is more than that just "he looks funny." I would think that because subs and sidearms are so rare it would be hard for a catcher a pitching coach to work with them and help them improve over the season. Since the catchers and Pitching Coaches work analyzing overhand pitchers all the time they wouldn't know what to do with a sub or a sidearm.
This right here is a real statistician/data scientist in practie. Statisitcs can be fun.
Jonah hill has always been a great actor
I am on a Brad Binge. I am in his "pit"
The statistical analysis.... It's so beautiful🥹
Brad Pitt. Jonah Hill. Explosions in the Sky. Enough said.
I dont even watch baseball..but there is something about this movie..very underrated film
It's not a baseball movie, it's a math movie.
HARDLY UNDERRATED IT WAS INSANELY POPULAR AND IS A CULT MOVIE NOW
John me too can’t stand it but this movie is sick
@John Everybody bashing baseball in this thread go do yourself a favor and watch Game 6 of the 2011 World Series. I rest my case.
@@nickr9620 yeah I don't mind Cricket
"The statistical analysis, it's so beautiful 😭😭😭"
Brooklyn 99
Came here for this, was not disappointed
Unexpected B99
As I have been told "It's just math". Peace and love.
"People are overlooked for a variety of biased reasons and perceived flaws." That seems to run true in so many areas of our society today. I think this film talks as much to that as to baseball specifically. A truly underrated film.
Reminds me of the corporate situation I find myself in. Two of the most egotistical, self-conceited managers ever are operating in the two most crucial roles of the company and it's practically destroyed everything in merely two years. They don't listen to advice, they are blind to the strengths of workers, they mismanage talent, they totally overestimate their own abilities, they control everything like maniacs, they implement the most expensive and top-heavy software and solutions for problems that didn't exist, they squash morale among the workers, they perceive disagreement as only threats, they lie unabashedly to safe face, and they hire all the wrong people even against HR advice. Why are they still there? Position. Similarly to politics, get the wrong people in the wrong place and millions suffer for it.
That’s exactly the point of this film , and I’m an A’s fan. Always think outside the box and don’t ever judge a book by it’s cover
Wow yeah that hit home
"Society today"
It’s cool to see that Pete’s character is a reflection of that in what revolutionized the game of baseball. From the start, you can tell he’s a kid that can contribute so much into a winning team and he’s so good at what he does. Unfortunately, his person (weight, personality, age, you name it) doesn’t fit the agenda of what a winning team wants. He’s a guy who takes advantage of the lowest levels of fundamentals better than anyone and dissects what it means to be a good player in, not just baseball, but in life. He’s not flashy, you can tell he’s quiet, maybe has a little lack of confidence because no one has ever seen his worth until Billy. And Billy is one of those rare and admirable leaders who will stand and die for someone who he knows is 1 in a million.
Jonah Hill does a great job of acting in this film. In my opinion it's one of his best
Absolutely.
Agreed
100 percent
Yep !
The Academy thought so too
I love the fact that he tells a lie for no good reason.
A classic characteristic of a person who lacks self confidence. It's a very well written scene in that regard.
It's pretty bizarre that lying is considered such a good and lovable thing to do nowadays, especially over something as insignificant as the lie in this movie. Says a lot.
@@JTDutch I sijmply think it is due to nerves.
@@JTDutch you missed the point
@@logankowalyk2580 ... yOu mIsSeD tHe pOiNt, aCtUaLlY lYiNg iS aWeSoMe lol
Brad's silent acting in this entire film is perfection.
At 1:07 i love the musical score in this movie. It keeps building like from 2:42 on ... Great soundtrack. The song is called The Mighty Rio Grande by This Will Destroy You . It's a track that is around 11 minutes long played throughout Moneyball. It just keeps building and building. It's amazing how important a musical score is to a movie.
It's also in the movie Room, in the best scene of the movie.
It was also used in the 30 for 30 documentary about the 85 Bears
This score really elevates the scene. It's perfectly layered in, never distracting from the dialogue but recognisable in the background. Sound mixing was tremendous.
Indeed. A Peter Berg staple. They all sound the same, but I dig it.
I watched this movie last night and this musical score kept playing in the back of my head. I played baseball in high school and it makes me brings me memories of when I played back in high school. Thanks for the name of this great song
I don’t even like baseball but it’s such a captivating movie that’s driven almost purely by the performances of Pitt and Hill and the rest of the cast. It also raises interesting questions regarding the state of modern sports collectively, and how money in gross excess is being irresponsibly thrown to solve every issue by the major sporting organisations. Soccer has a very similar problem where the chasm between the richest and more modest teams continue to deepen each season, leaving historically big name teams who have modest pockets in comparison with little to no chance of catching up, despite having big fan bases.
Im a Madrid fan but ur comment made me think AC Milan
King Sosa it’s even worse for big teams from smaller leagues which were historically competitive but now are not. Benfica, Ajax, Celtic will never be able to win the champions league again. AC Milan could get a lucky crop of academy players, build a team around them, become competitive in serie a again, and then go on to compete in Europe. For teams from smaller leagues any talent that is developed is quickly snapped up by teams from other leagues. Football really needs to be completely reorganized.
In truth, this same concept can be applied to ANY business model. When hiring personnel, the belief is that the most talented and efficient workforce will yield the best results. But the qualifications for such workforce doesn't always align to make the best performance. Think back to every job you've ever worked - I'll bet you can think of a co-worker who made more money than you, was further along in their career, etc., but was actually pretty terrible at their job. On the same token, can you also recall someone who may not have been the most seasoned worker, but was self-sufficient and hard working, while not necessarily being paid well? In an ideal situation, the best performances get paid more and are given opportunities for advancement, but again - not always the case. I feel like workforce management is like a chemistry equation - you have to find the right mix of people to achieve the best end result. Where Sports have an easy metric of success in terms of wins and other game-time statistics, most careers are more difficult to gauge success. Bottom line, just because a company has a bunch of capital and the means to employ a well-paid workforce, doesn't necessarily mean that workforce is superior to another company with a much lower payroll. A lot of factors go in to that, which Moneyball succinctly helped illustrate - just because someone has visuals and "all the tools" doesn't mean they're going to win.
Movies about Baseball are in fact always better than the sport itself.
dude...what about Aaron Sorkin? Without him this couldn't be near to what you are watching
I think I really like this movie because I just love the idea of seeing potential in people nobody else believes in. This applies in real life so damn much. No matter how much someone seems to suck at something, I believe there's a hidden gem inside all of us.
our flalse perceptions stop us from seeing the true value behind our preconceived notions.
It's the emotionless algorithm that can see people's true potential. I don't know how to feel about this.
you nailed it, this movie has many charms to it but this one is the big one.
I want to hire that guy for a night to draft my fantasy team.
It won't work for football.
@@FManAngryAmerican There's fantasy baseball too
@@FManAngryAmerican Brentford...
Actually the A’s in this time period drafted horribly.
@@yankees29 Fantasy drafts ≠ prospect drafts, they are drafts of already rostered players
You love this film because maybe you feel like the world undervalues *you*. And that’s why it works; yes, it’s perfectly cast, perfectly performed, perfectly produced, perfectly written, but beyond being technically sound, it’s brimming with hope-and in a world that just gets bigger and noisier, the more we’d like to hope we’re not depreciating because of it, and that regardless of whether or not others see it, we still matter. There isn’t much spectacle in this film, no action, no violence, none of that; but it has, to quote another sports film, “miles and miles of heart”, and it’ll always make me believe a nobody like me might surprise you one day.
nice
Eh. I just thought it was a cool movie.
Its one of the few films that tells the story of the underdog fighting back and even winning against the big guys without being overtly dramatic. I also helps that it's based on a real life story.
Thanks for telling me exactly how I should apparently interpret the movie the exact same way as you did :)
This comment made my day…”how can you not be romantic about baseball?”
Peter is exactly the kind of employee you want to keep. You ask him to do something, and he gives you literally 1700% of what you asked for.
we have a guy like this at work, true genius with numbers and statistical data modeling
Very hard to find both true genius with talent and dedication.......
@@dougk2932hey i am both of those things
Problem is, 90% of jobs won't reward you for that extra effort and expect it to be the default from then on
@@CianMcsweeney People have options and as an ex employee and ex employer I could attest that most employees have no work ethic always trying to extract maximum payout and recourses from their job while putting minimum effort.......there are jobs that are performance based on commision or bonus that you can rack serious income mid six figures but most people are too lazy to put the time and effort .
Everyone wants to seat behind a desk with a title especially Women expecting to get paid a high salary and stock options for the privilege....
If they had of won a world series it would of been the greatest ever sporting story its a pity they fell short in real life
But the red soxs won ine 2 years later using the same system.
@@joshdolan7822 ^^^
@@joshdolan7822 With a substantially larger budget
@@wolfmaster6113 he was saying that the story fell short. I was just stating they used the same formula at the red soxs to win a world series. Didnt mention anything about budget. But thanks for your pointless input 👍
@@joshdolan7822 A big team with more funding copying the ingenuity of a smaller team to win a World Series isn't exactly the same story. The point is that the A's with a lot to lose took a huge gamble and it came so close to paying off. That's what makes it an underdog story.
“The statistical analysis. It’s... so beautiful”
This music... Chills everytime
Yeah man. Something so unique about it. 💛
What song is it
@@jackryan7894 the mighty rio grande
It’s a great score
This can be applied to the workplace.
It already existed long before this movie. Its called data analytics.
@Tuco The Rat Rob
Its actually the reason America lost the Vietnam War. The old SecDef was a pioneer, heck he built the analytics field called it systems analytics and tried to tabulate everything. It turned to a jumbled mess where they tried to calculate every little bit but ended up missing the big picture.
Two people apply for corporate upper management position, one is a hard worker, great teacher, nice person. The other is 6 feet 5 inches with none of the following qualities, who get the position?
I remember when you could shake people's hands
What a time to live right?
remember when we were all afraid of our groceries... I miss those days
Ah, that time when we can actually go to work
Gonna be elbow bumps from now on
It'll be back again after the Republicans and Democrats stop their kindergarten fight after the election
Anyone else watch this movie at least once a year? And you still get all of the feels from the first time u watched it?
Check! Which is why I posted this
Yes. I bet there's many people who loves to return to that movie and don't know shit about baseball
This is not just a baseball (sport) movie. This is life
Damn I love analytics. When Jonah was explaining things I could listen to it all day.
It works for baseball, but not Football. They don't even have stats and analytics for several positions.
At least PFF and a few places try to break down film and come up with their own stats, like "line adjusted yardage" for a runner.
Hes a very likeable person or at least actor he seems normal and hes great at his job
@@PaulGaither The character Jonah is playing works for the Cleveland Browns now. He was hired to help a 1 win team and they have been competitive since he got there.
@@l.e.miller1208 - No they haven't. He was hired in Jan 2016. The 2016 Browns went 1-15. The 2017 Browns went 0-16. The 2018 Browns won 7 games (losing record) and last year they were worse, winning only 6 games.
At no point is that competitive. Moreover, it is not like those 7 or 6 win seasons were they winning games because of analytics such as going for it on 4th down more often then the league average or other notions advanced by analytics guys.
I am not closed minded to new ideas in football. I agree with them that the draft value chart needs to be reassessed and revalued, as it can be exploited as it is and has been for 30 years.
I agree that teams should go for it more than they do, but they have been in the last 12 years or so, just not at the insane rate that is recommended.
Analytics guys try to fuck with the "go for two" chart as well and forget about how emotion and momentum work in football.
Bill Walsh wrote and spoke about this when discussing 3rd downs. He said that if it is 3rd and 7+, then the pass only needs to be completed for half the needed yardage and the receiver needs to make up the rest on his own. Walsh said that a check down and completed pass where you let your athletes do something with the football has a better emotional impact on the team than throwing an incomplete pass. Your team feels they can execute their offense and they have a chance. On the other side, the defense gets a huge boost when they deflect a pass or force a terrible throw beyond the sticks.
Analytics guys don't understand those aspects of the game and think shorter routes are a waste of a route as it has a low conversion chance YET THEN CLAIM THAT YOU SHOULD GO FOR IT ON 4th DOWN. How stupid is that? If you want me to go for it more often, then you should be happy that I turned 3rd and 7+ into 4th and 2 or less with my pass that came up short and giving me a better 4th down situation than 4th and 7+.
This is why I don't like the analytics articles and conversations, because they are not grounded in REAL data, but rather a smattering of incomplete data and opinions, no matter how often they try to assert them as facts. No, collecting data from a California D2 private high school does not equate to what should be done on an NFL field, and no I am not exaggerating, read the sources of their data points and samples instead of just the headlines and conclusions.
@@PaulGaither You can't turn a 1 win football team around over night.
The Browns are competitive now and have young pieces that they can build on.
Competitive just means they have a chance to win some games and they aren't a free win anymore. Competitive doesn't necessarily mean playoffs or .500.
Just means they are a team you have to take seriously when you play they.
I get a feeling Peter would say giving Giancarlo Stanton 325 million was not a smart move.
I don't even the know the rules of baseball and I loved every second of this movie.
This movie and The Big Short are movies I can watch over and over again.....
Jonah Hill is one of the greatest actors I’ve ever seen. He’s so convincing and enthralling. He is so committed to his part in every role he’s in, it’s truly art
I have no interest in baseball, but I am nearly crying from what I just saw. Whoever wrote this is a genius. Everybody involved in this production has a LOT to proud of. There are two parts of art. 1) the craft of delivering information, and idea a concept. 2) the concept itself. Here, the story, the delivery, the casting, the lighting, the sound, the editing - all that is the craft. Not a single wrong move anywhere. Next, the concept - this concept ... this concept is essential to life. Holy God, did you guys do something amazing.
The music and editing do a lot of the heavy lifting here
Aaron sorkin wrote it. Check him out hes a brilliant screenwriter
This scene really puts into perspective all the things that need to go right for folks to be a high value pro but how easy it is for talented folks to be undervalued.
Brad eats in almost every scene he's ever filmed.
It’s a power thing. You don’t eat when you’re nervous or uncomfortable, only when you’re relaxed and in control. Jonah Hill is the new guy here, he’s weak and nervous and is really eager to impress the guy Brad Pitt is acting. It’s a complete juxtaposition. Eating an apple just drills that home. Brad just tends to get them kinds of roles in movies.
I like in the oceans 11 movies... almost every scene he's snackin on something, hilarious
Interestingly, he was meant to be smoking in all those Oceans Eleven scenes. But as he had just quit, the director changed it to snacking instead.
@@drumclaypete Maybe he's hungry!?
Whats funny is directors will normally do that for actors who struggle to appear natural on camera and also for the effect mentioned above. Truth be told, Brads just not the greatest actor (he is great tho) and there's nothing more natural than eating.
Maybe it’s just me but, I’m not a baseball guy and I really enjoyed this film. However, all the people I know who are heavy, heavy into baseball didn’t care for it. Even my father, who actually use to play Triple A ball, didn’t care for it. Perhaps the movie tries to simplify the game too much, I don’t know.
art deco .....agreed. I like baseball and an A’s fan and remember those moneyball days. Thrilling! But I to liked this movie, in fact because it did simplified it. Baseball today by most teams over value players and most certainly over pay them. There is still something very endearing about our low budget Oakland A’s.
Moneyball is used by damn near every team. The Red Sox fully adopted it and have 4 rings since lol
Yep that's how the old heads are... It's the same with basketball which is driven so much by analytics now. The old players hate it and claim it doesnt mean anything but they are plain wrong and it's just a fact. People will always let the world pass them by.
There is still a divide between "baseball purists" and "math nerds". Just like it's portrayed in this film. Many old school baseball purists don't respect the smart Ivy League graduates who have been getting jobs in Major League front offices after the success of the Moneyball Oakland A's. You even see in the film how the old school scouts and manager didn't believe in what Billy Beane and Peter Brand (fake name of the real life Paul DePodesta) were doing.
art deco I’m a huge baseball fan and this is my favorite baseball movie, one of my fav movies ever really. Great acting great soundtrack
When a Browns fan sees Jonna Hill’s character and screams in terror.
Depodestas been right about literally everything idiot. What do you mean screams?
He helped build what the Browns are now: a contender
Ok, after watching that scene I'm headed to Amazon prime to watch the whole movie now (again). Good post, thanks.
I tried to do this for Larry Wilson of the Phoenix Cardinals, back when he was GM (circa 1991) - in football it's more complicated than in baseball, as the individual players interact with each other to a trememdous degree on every snap, whereas in baseball the SS and the C don't affect each other either at the plate or in the field. Larry is an extremely nice man, but I did not make my case well enough - football did not "focus on data" until after the advent of free agency.
Nola Anderson yeah, baseball is perfect for this kind of thing because it's so individual and each player has such a wide data set. That's cool that you saw the potential in this idea though.
@@lukebrunswick5421 An unlike baseball, football needs players that interactively complement each other - a fast WR and a big tall WR; a huge goal-line RB and a smaller but very fast stretch-zone RB; cornerbacks that match the different receivers - etc. All over the field, both sides of the ball. The NFL caught on once they got used to true free agency and a hard salary cap
Konami has been doing with soccer player for almost 30 years, and I say with success
Exactly. The owners of the Red Sox now also own Liverpool FC, the soccer club I support, and they tried this Moneyball approach and it didn't work. They needed to look at things differently while still using that philosophy of finding underrated players. Their best players came from relatively smaller teams and lit the world on fire just to emphasize this.
Works better for Baseball and hockey than it will in Football. However I think in modern day football, the game is becoming more analytical than ever before even though football is more demanding with physical traits than other sports like linemen need to be a certain weight and build most of the time.
One thing that sucks about sports nowadays though is that people pay attention to the physical traits more than anything else.
I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, but it left out one of the most important things that made the A's so successful during that time. They had Mark Mulder, Barry Zito, and Tim Hudson in their starting staff. Without those guys, they have no chance regardless of how many misfits they added through Sabermetrics.
Not to mention literal MVP Miguel Tejada. Oakland isn't a small market team. They're small-ish, especially compared to the Yankees or Dodgers, but the A's have millions more compared to truly small market teams like Pittsburgh or Baltimore.
@@swirlingtoilets I don't know what you're conflating market size and payroll. In 2002 the A's were the third lowest payroll in the league, only ahead of the Expos and the Rays. Their payroll was 6% less than the Pirates and less than two-thirds that of the Orioles. Hell, the Orioles had the 10th largest payroll only 3 years ago.
@@genghisconn7770 I suppose i was speaking more recently, when Oakland had $15 million more than Pittsburgh and Baltimore, and that was with the O's dealing with Chris Davis's bloated contract. In 2002 you were right, though. They had Tejada and Chavez on the cheap, and Zito, Mulder, and Hudson were all still on their rookie contracts IIRC. I was also remembering the 1997 Pirates, who somehow scrounged together a team for $9 million lol
How many games does a team win with 4 All-Stars and 21 other wastes of money? The key to Moneyball is making the most of the roster spots that you don't have a budget for.
.
Look at the Baltimore Orioles. They spent 15 years throwing money at washed up vets, and even though they had stars on the team they didn't even finish .500 once from 1998 to 2011
@@l.e.miller1208 you're right. I looked up the stats for the guys the A's signed, and it tells a powerful story. David Justice and Scott Hatteberg had the 3rd and 4th best OPS+ on the team, respectively. Hatteberg had a WAR over 3.0. Chad Bradford had one of the best ERA+ stats in their bullpen. The fact that they signed these dudes for cheap and got above average performance out of them shows what Moneyball is all about. You can't win without stars, but your non-stars need to be good and cheap to afford your stars.
As a Brit, I watched Moneyball when it first came out, and thought "Mm yeah interesting film but I don't know or care about baseball" so thought not much of it. I then moved to New York in 2022, and watched it again in my first month living there. Its now May 2023 and I've been to 12 Yankees games and am an absolute diehard fan (reasonably speaking) and this scene and the whole film hits me so much harder.
You should ask some of your knowledgeable yankee fan friends. The A’s as an organization, scouting , drafting , coaching etc; are second to none. We have the third most World Series titles in mlb history and one of the most loyal diehard fanbases in all of sports. If you want a really good example of how ridiculous our fanbase is look up “Oakland A’s game 162 2012”. We won our division by sweeping the team ahead of us and the final game was on the last day of the season. I’m talking 50k people for a damn baseball game …..
It's a great story made into a great book and a well done film.
This was the best scene in the movie. It outlines their strategy and how they built a good ball club perfectly.
Changed the game on how to build a team. They got the most shut out players and almost went to the post season
In a "how creepy has the internet become" statement, this popped up as recommended today the day after I watched Moneyball on tv.
They hear everything
@@RPGeek yes they certainly do...shakes head (sad)
BoobaDoo oh boy we got a conspiracy theorist on our hands calm down bud
Google heard it through your phone. On another note, you should look into Vault 7.
@@RPGeek Im mean, if you're using Google Home in your house and it hears the tv.. they own RUclips, so you may get a clip. Thats creepy
@3:51 I love how Jonah Hill just stands there patting his thighs cause that's exactly what a new employee would do when showing something to their manager lol. The chemistry between these two is amazing.
Houston Rockets are run just like this
Source? Would love to read more about this
SomeBF the 2016 book The Undoing Project talks about Daryl Morey and his use of saber metrics
Daniel M. Damn, thanks a tonne. I hate Westbrook & am iffy on Harden but if this systems getting them where they need to go more power to them. You seen the chart party video on the Rockets and their abundance of 3’s?
SomeBF haven’t seen it
Daniel M. ruclips.net/video/pOCp1KaNB2k/видео.html
Really interesting numerical study of the rockets and their love of the 3
Remember, people, this works because baseball is a fairly simple game compared to a lot of other more complicated games.
The easier the game, the easier it is to model.
I would love to have my office overlooking a professional baseball park.. Even if it is the Coliseum
This isn't a baseball movie. This is a human movie.
Throughout my life, Baseball never caught my eye in the slightest. A few months ago I began to investigate the world of sports betting and the largest number of picks that were sent to me were from MLB. On one occasion I gave myself the
opportunity to bet on selections and watch those games. It never crossed my mind how tense, calculating, ruthless, and subtly exciting baseball could be. In less than what you can imagine, I was beginning to become obsessed with the sport... However, not being an American and not having that sense of belonging to x or y team, it was difficult for me to choose a preferred team to support. This movie convinced me to support the Athletics; It is such an inspiring story that it surpasses all sports fiction.
The worst time to support the A's 😅 They sold everyone away. The NL east is a fun division to watch as the Mets/Braves and always duking it out. The Mariners are also another team to watch because they have the longest playoff drought in all of American sports rn and also have a fun young core of players(Cal Raleigh, Julio Rodriquez, Ty France, Logan Gilbert, etc.). That's my two cents as a baseball fan myself.
@@ThePoductions360 well said from a life long braves fan here
I imagine scouts are still extremely important to teams, in reality they were pretty spot on in Bean’s skills and abilities, and he’d probably excelled at Stanford as a player. Sometimes those talents and skills don’t lead to success. But I love how they show this formula works and that if you can combine the experience of scouts with a formula designed for winning, it can work pretty damn good. This movie showed the scouts as idiots, but I imagine there is a lot more to how they evaluate potential prospects.
I think the movie did a good job tho of showing it’s not all about the numbers it’s about the person and buying in Jeremy Giambi got on base but he wasn’t committed to winning that’s something you won’t see on a formula and it’s on scouts to scout the person
Scouts only look at what the player can do they dont look at the flaws they have. Trouble with the Curve touched on that a lot. Another great movie done by the man Clint Eastwood
The scoring in this movie is right
I'm a Blue Jays fan, but they stink so if they can't win I hope someday I get to see the Billy Beane led A's win it all.
What do you mean? Your jays should be contending VERY soon. A few more pitchers and you guys are in business.
I remember when they won it two years in a row.
A lot of old timers don’t like the movie because it goes against the game, and how they believe it’s supposed to be played. It’s nothing wrong with how they think and quite frankly the way they want the game to be played with athleticism and hard hits is very exciting to watch, but the new era of baseball with shifts, and specialized pitchers, swapping guys in and out of lineups depending on opposing pitchers. The game has been broken down to a science and small ball has become a real thing, stealing runs and trading runs for outs. Money ball was great because it showed that it could be done, that you don’t need a billion dollars to make the World Series, just guys who are specialized enough in one area of the game played at the right time can win games.
Just like in the movie with the talent seekers
@@RPGeek A bunch of the scouts in the round table scenes are / were real life baseball scouts. Specifically the lead scout, who in real life openly admitted he thought this approach to baseball ruined the game. So his anger and frustration he shows in his scenes isn't just acting, but venting real emotions. Which is why everything feels so authentic - because it is.
Jonah Hill just nailed every scene he is in.
Great movie, bits of genius everywhere in life
The acting is awesome ok, but what about the script? the editing? the directing? come on, there is more in this film that the obvious
Nevermind the 2002 A’s 3 star pitchers and MVP Miguel Tejada. Yeah it was all the submarine pitcher and hatteberg 😂
The formula jonah hill shows brad pitt is just the pythagorean win theorem. I love rewatching this movie, because now that I know more about more advanced baseball concepts I notice so many minute details.
I thought it was sabermetrics?
Powerful scene
The soundtrack to this movie is PERFECT
Can someone tell me where EXACTLY that equation @2:22 is from, the Bill James "ABSTRACT" book? Is there an audio version of it somewhere, I don't see it on Amazon.
In the soccer world this is happening at Liverpool FC as we speak, they are currently the best team in the world even though their squad is made up by “average” players.
Its neither being money balled nor are the players average. Soccer unlike baseball isnt a stats game. you can have 90% possession but that doesnt translate to goals. Its more about understanding spaces and positioning your players. So in a way it depends more on the coach than on the players
@@ONeilYu Soccer isnt a stats game? Everything in the universe is a stats game my guy. Literally everything can quantified into statistics, its just a matter of how sophisticated you have to break elements down. They say math is the language of god for a reason. Soccer is harder to statistically breakdown than baseball but that doesnt mean its beyond analysis.
Liverpool has a team of phd physicists and mathematicians building sophisticated statistical models of what makes a "good player". Thats how they scouted guys like Robertson, Salah, Wijnaldum, Minamino, Firmino & co for peanuts.These guys were overlooked because they were seen as average using basic perception. Remember Robertson and Gini were playing in teams that got relegated when Liverpool signed them.
Its funny you mentioned "understanding spaces", well thats another thing Klopp and the analytics team pay attention to. What you do when you dont have the ball can be more influential in a game than how you play with the ball. Liverpool pays close attention to how players operate when they dont have the ball, they have an atomic physicist that models the movements of atoms and hes helping in analyzing how players move when they dont have the ball.
So yes, Liverpool is being moneyballed hard right now. But they also have the best manager in the world who is the perfect fit for them for many reasons I can get into. I dont believe in soulmates, but Klopp & Liverpool were truly destined for each other.
Arsene Wenger was doing it 15 years ago.
Craig I don’t doubt it. Wenger was always ahead of his time. I don’t why he decided to become a bad scout later in his career.
Its a mix of Moneyball and something new. Moneyball, as it is in Baseball, wouldn't work in Football. In Baseball, how many runs a player scores is dependent on the player, how many strikes a pitchers gets is dependent on him. In football, there is more of a team element. Its why Liverpool look at not just the player but everything around the player. Andy Robertson is a prime example. A wonderful attack-minded left back who is used in a primarily defensive teams that has a bad defense. Its not a good combo. Pair him with a world-class center back (Van Dijk) and an equally attack-minded right back (Alexander-Arnold) plus a system where the team defends as a unit, and you have a formula to unlock Robertson's boundless potential. As they have done.
I know so little about baseball, but with Sorkin's writing it makes the dialogue so captivating.
I watched a four-hour movie about cricket one day and had the same feeling. Great movies cut through that and make it a non-issue.
I’m not a fan of Baseball and never watch it, but for some reason I’ve always loved movies about it... Moneyball, Field of Dreams, The Sandlot, The Natural, A League of Their Own, Rookie of the Year, etc etc
bull durham
I always wondered though. If you begin to show success using the approach described here then won't the market adjust? For instance, you showing interest in a player that no one else is will be a sign to other teams that there's something there they don't see. So that would make the price go up because now other teams will look twice? In the example of this video once Oakland showed success with this approach that same guy who they could get for 237k would cost more merely because THEY show interest in him when no one else did. You could even have teams refuse to trade with them using the fact that Oakland showed interest as leverage to get better value somewhere else. So wouldn't that still diminish the whole moneyball effect? Think of it as a horserace. If I'm really good at what I do and the public gets wind of the horse I'm backing then the horse I was hoping to get at 8-1 ends up going off as an odds on favorite. My edge is gone unless I can keep things super secret. Which probably explains why Oakland A's went to the one guys house in the middle of the night to hand him a contact in person in order to keep it out of the media.
Once you've had success, yes. Before that, nobody will really care why an also ran team is going after an obscure player. This movie alleges to capture a moment in time before everyone caught on to sabermetrics.
Tim hudosn ... mark mulder... barry zito.... eric chavez.. miguel tejada... jermaine dye...eric byrnes... terrence long... david justice..... thats a pretty good team
This movie is so beautiful and reveals one of the most interesting and engaging parts of this sport. I’m a baseball nut and dream of playing professional baseball, if that doesn’t work than I’m doing ANYTHING that involves the MLB.
I don't care who you are, this is one of Brad Pitts best performances