It’s kinda funny 47’s earn the merge is mostly just an over-convoluted version of a regular merge, honestly just do a regular merge by this point, they’ve earned it for surviving the premerge
The problem with the "Reverse History" part of the Hourglass is that the winning team already ate at a feast, so if we're actually reversing time then they should also somewhat transfer the eaten food into the losing teams stomach
The whole twist honestly feels more like "Earn the Jury" more than "Earn the Merge" since it most cases, the mergeatory boot was the last pre-jury boot (again, most cases).
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor the early merges are just so tired out now, especially with 18 players. They can even keep the Earn the Merge, just do it at like the Final 10 or something to throw people off
could you go into more detail of what you mean at 3:35? I think understand the Rupert part? Burton being safe as part of the outcasts twist, then winning individual immunity, so giving indv. immunity to Rupert right? but I haven't seen the other instances
For sure. The three examples I used were all from the Kidnapping twist. In Pearl Islands, Morgan stole Rupert, which made him absent and therefore immune from tribal. In All Stars, Chapera stole Kathy, making her immune and absent when Ethan went home. and in Cook Islands Aitu stole Nate, making him immune. Three different instances where a group of people got to randomly decide someone else had immunity, and there are a lot more that have been pointed out that I missed!
In Guatemala & Gabon’s premerge , there were double tribals and individual immunity challenges where the winner gave immunity to another player. Rafe gave immunity to Gary and Marcus gave immunity to Sugar.
Granted it would never happen due to not being able to fit everything in... but I would love something like 1) "Merge" happens, but in a twist they all are playing an individual challenge first which will impact everything else (maybe some endurance challenge that will run 20 minutes tops) 2) Players choose a team (capped at even numbers) in the order they finish. So 1st picks a team first, 2nd picks second, etc resulting in first out being eliminated from safety on the spot 3) Once teams are set, winner of challenge can pick any two people they want to swap teams (themselves included) to prevent being screwed by their team throwing 4) Winning team wins immunity, go to the vote.
@ yup, it’s pretty heavily theorized Jud threw it to stop Margaret from winning the challenge. Real memorable season🫠, who could forget legends like Brooke, Margaret, and Lydia
God, I wanna tell 21 year old me several things, but I think even in the era of Cambodia I wouldn't believe it if I told me they do that atrocious Fiji unmerge twist every season now, and that I'll be okay enough with it
Several things you say...several... I also wouldn't believe it, but I also wouldn't believe that final four firemaking would be a thing Survivor evolving is necessary but man...I love watching old seasons because of it!
I think they found the right idea with the merge this time. Basically EVERYONE gets to make it to this point of the game, but they aren’t fully merged until AFTER the next Tribal. It literally removes the “Earn the Merge/Mergeatory” part while also keeping just enough of it. Hoping they keep this idea going forwarf
I also think it's a great way to have some stakes at a big tribal, because they're still not on a jury, and the person who goes home won't get merge money (I believe jurors are paid more because they need to stick around longer?) It's a great system while also being essentially what they've done in the past.
I think earn the merge very much poisoned the well with its first implementation, in taking away promised immunity. Not that it can't be something to try without that, but there definitely wasn't a lot gained from doing it. I think an aspect where it fails is that you want to see weird challenge pairs do interesting things in a challenge together, but they aren't setting up the challenge to facilitate that as well as they could.
Luckily Earn the Merge has shown to be able to evolve. I think doing it in a bunch of smaller groups, or having a unique pair challenge like the lean on backs one in Titans vs Rebels could do a lot to spice it up. I have a lot to say about Survivor challenges but I'm waiting to see if the post-merge goes how I expect...
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor I just hope we get something unique. It's not like we've had no challenge moments (everything between Sol and Rome is wonderful) but something special and wacky, it would be wonderful.
I don’t consider the hourglass as a part of Earn the Merge mainly because… the idea of a player giving themselves and the losing team immunity, undoing the results of the previous challenge runs contrary to the notion that the merge is something that needs to be earned.
Very good point, it's sort of its own thing that gets entangled into the 41 and 42 mergatory...although this implies we could see time reversal in other contexts...I don't know if I like that idea or not...
Mergatory itself isn't terrible, but it combined with the split tribal shortly after it changed the meta of the early post-merge in a bad way to just picking off the bottom feeders of the OG tribes as it's too risky to do much else until after the split tribal. And I'm taking it you didn't see the press photos and synopsis for the next episode before making this video? As they confirm they're repeating the epispde 7 twist of Survivor 44 next episode, giving 7 out of the 12 people immunity (and 5 of them just for losing the challenge and picking the right color at random). On that evidence I think what they did for Mergatory this season won't be done every season going forward and they'll continue to experiment and twist it up.
Oh no if I had to list my second least favourite twist it's the Matt boot in Survivor 44 (which made me stop the season for a few weeks...I was not pleased...) I've spoken before about how big moves used to be made at the final 9, but now they've been pushed back to 6 or 7 because players just can't trust production not to randomly throw shit at them. It's a bit disheartening, but with that survey they posted on Instagram today maybe they want more feedback?
If they did the 47 merge, bt allowed everyone to eat that would b cool. As in, Compete in teams to try to get a chance at an individual Idol after winning. Still have both a team an individual challenge element, bt give everyone food. The losers of the team event eat first 😂 in-front of the those trying to get Immunity. They only have as much time as the challenge takes to finish eating. Iff Survivor did a challenge that goes relatively quick, then the losers have to punish themself by eating super fast & risks making themself sick 😂
@ Right, I mean it's still a bit Shty. However, the choice element of eating slower is there. Everyone would get to eat. The winners just get more time & the losers have to make a choice. Eat fast & eat more, or eat slow 2 eat at a safer pace, bt you will get less. I would go more chill cuz I'm not throwing up😂. Although, someone will do what Keiths Son did. Eat way too much way too fast, bt no one told umm to eat like rabbits breed 😂 Thats on them for being stupid. Keith even told his son to slow down & he refused to listen. I bet if Jeff said, "Do Not Hurt Urself" someone would still do it anyway. It's inevitable cuz people think they kno their own limit when gorging, bt if you've never gone hungry u don't. Iff you have never had to stop urself from hurting yourself becuz of hunger, then u won't know any better. Folks think they know, bt often don't if they have never experienced such levels of hunger. Which is setting people up to fail a bit. However, the game is intended for failure. If folks don't understand that element when it's been explained multiple times, then they're just refusing to learn the lesson. Let them eat & see what happens. They'll learn. Experience sets the pace, eating isn't a race. Let them figure it out. At least they get food. If they mess it up by throwing up, they screwed themself while being advised not to. Not Survivors fault 😂 Welcome to the thunder-dome!
I still feel Survivor 47’s merge is still inherently flawed, don’t get me wrong I love that we finally only had 1 player safe But there’s also the issue of immediately sending 7/13 tribe mates on a reward trip while the remaining 6 return to camp, there’s just no scrambling, the 7 reward winners just debate and then return to camp with the plan set in stone
Agreed. I honestly just prefer the original merge. What's the point of everything being the same except only half the cast eats and the player voted out doesn't get to be on the jury? It just feels unfair to me that the players are facing the same challenges as they would at a real merge, but at least half the cast (plus the person voted out) don't receive the rewards they've earned.
I do think sending a majority on reward where they can bond and have a good time is a problem. I wonder (assuming they keep doing this) if we'll ever see someone on the winning half go home...
Lately I have been kind of thinking of merging two less popular things that Jeff still loves together - earn the merge and fire making . What would happen if the challenge was they all had to make fire to get a buff and the last person to make fire was eliminated. Then they all have a merge feast together they still have to vote out someone that night with the first person to make fire immune (or no immunity) and that takes care of the double elimination episode. Then we no longer have to have final 4 fire making.
This is very similar to what they do in Koh Lanta, where they have a challenge at the merge and the loser is eliminated. I've not seen Koh Lanta, so I'd need to watch it to figure out how I feel about it, but an interesting idea at the very least!
The worst "twist" on the merge has to be Thailand's "Fake Merge" right? Shii-an getting screwed by that twist, and this directly leading to worst person to ever win Survivor's tribe pagonging the opposition and basically crowning himself at the merge was just icing on a crap cake.
It is up there that's for sure, I'm not entirely sure I'd rank it as the worst (I think 41, 14, and 13 if you count the Bottle twist might outdo it depending on how I'm feeling), but man Survivor has done some...things...that's for sure...
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor : Yeah, when people list worst twists from the old era it's usually Fiji at 1, Thailand at 2, and then all the debate is in filling out the rest of the list. Fiji was able to overcome the awfulness of its twist. Thailand's twist doomed the entire post-merge.
Can we talk about what just happened last night? Why aren't you on instagram making conversation threads for each episodes, Henry? 😂 #HorrendousEpisode
The only reason I'm not on Instagram doing live reactions is because the episode airs at like...2pm my time! If I didn't have a job it'd be much easier
Every time something weird happens in Survivor now, I can't tell if it's Jeff, or a side effect of Erika going back in time and messing something up. She's gotta use those powers responsibly!!
Individual immunity with everyone else vulnerable and everyone participating in the vote: Not Merged Team challenge with half the players immune and not participating in the vote: Merged. At this point I don't even care what silly shenanigans they pull at the merge vote, but stop pretending it's not the merge vote. Earn the merge was dumb to begin with, but now it's just embarrassing.
Half the tribe doesn't eat the merge feast-GOOD. They have it easy enough with 26 days already (said as someone who generally likes 40s-era Survivor, especially the 90-minute seasons). Don't give any tribe flint AT ALL while you're at it (half joking).
That's a good take that I didn't consider! It probably says a lot that the only time I think Survivor is short is when they explicitly mention how many days its been. Otherwise I just don't think about it.
That is arguably true in terms of skill, but in terms of did i like having him on TV, yes! It was a great downfall, probably the best one they could have given him, but I almost wish he got an even bigger flameout
Andy pulling out German was the biggest blindside of the season
Er spricht sehr gut Deutsch, aber warum? Ich muss es herausfinden!
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor : Andy is an enigma wrapped in a mystery.
@HenryHickmanSurvivor pretty sure it was a Germanic tribes sacking Rome reference.
For the record I google translated your comment
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor I was so damn jump scared by his German, the pronounciation was pretty damn good and it came so out of nowwhere.
It’s kinda funny 47’s earn the merge is mostly just an over-convoluted version of a regular merge, honestly just do a regular merge by this point, they’ve earned it for surviving the premerge
I just screamed at my screen “THATS JUST THE FUCKING MERGE”
It's a merge with Jeff refusing to admit that it's just a merge. "Never done before" my ass...
The problem with the "Reverse History" part of the Hourglass is that the winning team already ate at a feast, so if we're actually reversing time then they should also somewhat transfer the eaten food into the losing teams stomach
Y'know what I think you're onto something with this...I don't know mechanically how it'd work but I'm with ya
It would be cool if they also idk - not "merge" at 13 in a 18 player season
Fully agree there, it's too big!
The whole twist honestly feels more like "Earn the Jury" more than "Earn the Merge" since it most cases, the mergeatory boot was the last pre-jury boot (again, most cases).
It feels like basically two extra pre-merge rounds just for the heck of it
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor the early merges are just so tired out now, especially with 18 players. They can even keep the Earn the Merge, just do it at like the Final 10 or something to throw people off
3:35 there was also episode 3 of Vanuatu, where John K was able to choose one of the girls to be safe, with him choosing Ami.
Man I really did the opposite of cooking when I scripted that segment! Another great example
Can always salvage a terrible twist with a good Liz Burger and a Shark Bowl!
Heck yeah, if every bad twist were sponsored by Applebees we'd be fine
Boy do I have bad news for how this video aged
I truly jinxed it...
could you go into more detail of what you mean at 3:35? I think understand the Rupert part? Burton being safe as part of the outcasts twist, then winning individual immunity, so giving indv. immunity to Rupert right? but I haven't seen the other instances
For sure. The three examples I used were all from the Kidnapping twist.
In Pearl Islands, Morgan stole Rupert, which made him absent and therefore immune from tribal.
In All Stars, Chapera stole Kathy, making her immune and absent when Ethan went home.
and in Cook Islands Aitu stole Nate, making him immune.
Three different instances where a group of people got to randomly decide someone else had immunity, and there are a lot more that have been pointed out that I missed!
In Guatemala & Gabon’s premerge , there were double tribals and individual immunity challenges where the winner gave immunity to another player. Rafe gave immunity to Gary and Marcus gave immunity to Sugar.
Another two great examples that I missed
Granted it would never happen due to not being able to fit everything in... but I would love something like
1) "Merge" happens, but in a twist they all are playing an individual challenge first which will impact everything else (maybe some endurance challenge that will run 20 minutes tops)
2) Players choose a team (capped at even numbers) in the order they finish. So 1st picks a team first, 2nd picks second, etc resulting in first out being eliminated from safety on the spot
3) Once teams are set, winner of challenge can pick any two people they want to swap teams (themselves included) to prevent being screwed by their team throwing
4) Winning team wins immunity, go to the vote.
That's a really interesting idea, I wonder how that'd play out in an ORG or something (and on the real show if they could fit it!)
3:35
Rafe choosing Gary at the double tribal of Guatemala
Such a great season as well, that's the challenge where Jud said the answer aloud before solving the puzzle right?
@ yup, it’s pretty heavily theorized Jud threw it to stop Margaret from winning the challenge.
Real memorable season🫠, who could forget legends like Brooke, Margaret, and Lydia
God, I wanna tell 21 year old me several things, but I think even in the era of Cambodia I wouldn't believe it if I told me they do that atrocious Fiji unmerge twist every season now, and that I'll be okay enough with it
Several things you say...several...
I also wouldn't believe it, but I also wouldn't believe that final four firemaking would be a thing
Survivor evolving is necessary but man...I love watching old seasons because of it!
I think they found the right idea with the merge this time. Basically EVERYONE gets to make it to this point of the game, but they aren’t fully merged until AFTER the next Tribal. It literally removes the “Earn the Merge/Mergeatory” part while also keeping just enough of it. Hoping they keep this idea going forwarf
I also think it's a great way to have some stakes at a big tribal, because they're still not on a jury, and the person who goes home won't get merge money (I believe jurors are paid more because they need to stick around longer?) It's a great system while also being essentially what they've done in the past.
But that’s still literally just the merge
I think earn the merge very much poisoned the well with its first implementation, in taking away promised immunity. Not that it can't be something to try without that, but there definitely wasn't a lot gained from doing it. I think an aspect where it fails is that you want to see weird challenge pairs do interesting things in a challenge together, but they aren't setting up the challenge to facilitate that as well as they could.
Luckily Earn the Merge has shown to be able to evolve. I think doing it in a bunch of smaller groups, or having a unique pair challenge like the lean on backs one in Titans vs Rebels could do a lot to spice it up. I have a lot to say about Survivor challenges but I'm waiting to see if the post-merge goes how I expect...
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor I just hope we get something unique. It's not like we've had no challenge moments (everything between Sol and Rome is wonderful) but something special and wacky, it would be wonderful.
I don’t consider the hourglass as a part of Earn the Merge mainly because… the idea of a player giving themselves and the losing team immunity, undoing the results of the previous challenge runs contrary to the notion that the merge is something that needs to be earned.
Very good point, it's sort of its own thing that gets entangled into the 41 and 42 mergatory...although this implies we could see time reversal in other contexts...I don't know if I like that idea or not...
earning the merge is only a thing to make survivor not look cheap for going 26 days.
Yeah good point, maybe they literally can't afford food for 13 people...
Mergatory itself isn't terrible, but it combined with the split tribal shortly after it changed the meta of the early post-merge in a bad way to just picking off the bottom feeders of the OG tribes as it's too risky to do much else until after the split tribal.
And I'm taking it you didn't see the press photos and synopsis for the next episode before making this video? As they confirm they're repeating the epispde 7 twist of Survivor 44 next episode, giving 7 out of the 12 people immunity (and 5 of them just for losing the challenge and picking the right color at random).
On that evidence I think what they did for Mergatory this season won't be done every season going forward and they'll continue to experiment and twist it up.
Oh no if I had to list my second least favourite twist it's the Matt boot in Survivor 44 (which made me stop the season for a few weeks...I was not pleased...)
I've spoken before about how big moves used to be made at the final 9, but now they've been pushed back to 6 or 7 because players just can't trust production not to randomly throw shit at them. It's a bit disheartening, but with that survey they posted on Instagram today maybe they want more feedback?
@@bencalebrod goddammit we were doing so not godawful with twists
No, but I would love to hear what Henry Hickman the legend has to say about it
If they did the 47 merge, bt allowed everyone to eat that would b cool.
As in, Compete in teams to try to get a chance at an individual Idol after winning. Still have both a team an individual challenge element, bt give everyone food. The losers of the team event eat first 😂 in-front of the those trying to get Immunity. They only have as much time as the challenge takes to finish eating. Iff Survivor did a challenge that goes relatively quick, then the losers have to punish themself by eating super fast & risks making themself sick 😂
Wait I actually really like that idea i think that's super funny!
@ Right, I mean it's still a bit Shty. However, the choice element of eating slower is there. Everyone would get to eat. The winners just get more time & the losers have to make a choice. Eat fast & eat more, or eat slow 2 eat at a safer pace, bt you will get less.
I would go more chill cuz I'm not throwing up😂. Although, someone will do what Keiths Son did. Eat way too much way too fast, bt no one told umm to eat like rabbits breed 😂
Thats on them for being stupid.
Keith even told his son to slow down & he refused to listen. I bet if Jeff said, "Do Not Hurt Urself" someone would still do it anyway. It's inevitable cuz people think they kno their own limit when gorging, bt if you've never gone hungry u don't. Iff you have never had to stop urself from hurting yourself becuz of hunger, then u won't know any better. Folks think they know, bt often don't if they have never experienced such levels of hunger.
Which is setting people up to fail a bit. However, the game is intended for failure. If folks don't understand that element when it's been explained multiple times, then they're just refusing to learn the lesson. Let them eat & see what happens.
They'll learn. Experience sets the pace, eating isn't a race. Let them figure it out. At least they get food. If they mess it up by throwing up, they screwed themself while being advised not to. Not Survivors fault 😂
Welcome to the thunder-dome!
I still feel Survivor 47’s merge is still inherently flawed, don’t get me wrong I love that we finally only had 1 player safe
But there’s also the issue of immediately sending 7/13 tribe mates on a reward trip while the remaining 6 return to camp, there’s just no scrambling, the 7 reward winners just debate and then return to camp with the plan set in stone
Why does something being set in stone imply that it’s flawed? It just makes the challenge “don’t be the name who’s chosen to be set in stone”
Agreed. I honestly just prefer the original merge. What's the point of everything being the same except only half the cast eats and the player voted out doesn't get to be on the jury? It just feels unfair to me that the players are facing the same challenges as they would at a real merge, but at least half the cast (plus the person voted out) don't receive the rewards they've earned.
I do think sending a majority on reward where they can bond and have a good time is a problem.
I wonder (assuming they keep doing this) if we'll ever see someone on the winning half go home...
@@jaykay1899 : In the words of Best Winner Ever Gabler: "I threw Ellie's name out by throwing her name out."
@@jaykay1899 it’s hard to do that when you aren’t there
Lately I have been kind of thinking of merging two less popular things that Jeff still loves together - earn the merge and fire making . What would happen if the challenge was they all had to make fire to get a buff and the last person to make fire was eliminated. Then they all have a merge feast together they still have to vote out someone that night with the first person to make fire immune (or no immunity) and that takes care of the double elimination episode. Then we no longer have to have final 4 fire making.
This is very similar to what they do in Koh Lanta, where they have a challenge at the merge and the loser is eliminated. I've not seen Koh Lanta, so I'd need to watch it to figure out how I feel about it, but an interesting idea at the very least!
The worst "twist" on the merge has to be Thailand's "Fake Merge" right? Shii-an getting screwed by that twist, and this directly leading to worst person to ever win Survivor's tribe pagonging the opposition and basically crowning himself at the merge was just icing on a crap cake.
It is up there that's for sure, I'm not entirely sure I'd rank it as the worst (I think 41, 14, and 13 if you count the Bottle twist might outdo it depending on how I'm feeling), but man Survivor has done some...things...that's for sure...
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor : Yeah, when people list worst twists from the old era it's usually Fiji at 1, Thailand at 2, and then all the debate is in filling out the rest of the list. Fiji was able to overcome the awfulness of its twist. Thailand's twist doomed the entire post-merge.
Can we talk about what just happened last night? Why aren't you on instagram making conversation threads for each episodes, Henry? 😂 #HorrendousEpisode
By the way, did you really believe I wouldn't check on you keeping on saying forty several? 😂
The only reason I'm not on Instagram doing live reactions is because the episode airs at like...2pm my time! If I didn't have a job it'd be much easier
@@HenryHickmanSurvivor doesn't have to be live reaction. It can be a post-viewing discussion thread. Let's go, Henry, you can do this!! ❤️
I wanna talk about MANY things that are WRONG in last night's episode
erika is the biggest super villain in survivor history
Every time something weird happens in Survivor now, I can't tell if it's Jeff, or a side effect of Erika going back in time and messing something up. She's gotta use those powers responsibly!!
Individual immunity with everyone else vulnerable and everyone participating in the vote: Not Merged
Team challenge with half the players immune and not participating in the vote: Merged.
At this point I don't even care what silly shenanigans they pull at the merge vote, but stop pretending it's not the merge vote. Earn the merge was dumb to begin with, but now it's just embarrassing.
I couldn't agree more, if you're going to make stuff up at least be internally consistent with your logic! That's all I ask!
The answer is no
Tbh yeah that'd save everyone 11 minutes if I went for the short version...
Half the tribe doesn't eat the merge feast-GOOD. They have it easy enough with 26 days already (said as someone who generally likes 40s-era Survivor, especially the 90-minute seasons). Don't give any tribe flint AT ALL while you're at it (half joking).
That's a good take that I didn't consider! It probably says a lot that the only time I think Survivor is short is when they explicitly mention how many days its been. Otherwise I just don't think about it.
rome was a horrible player that got really lucky he got the 2 advantages premerge
That is arguably true in terms of skill, but in terms of did i like having him on TV, yes!
It was a great downfall, probably the best one they could have given him, but I almost wish he got an even bigger flameout
@HenryHickmanSurvivor I mean yea but I did love the edit they gave him
Please let the "several" joke die 😔