Succession - Ep.4X4 "Honeymoon States" (MovieMan Reaction)
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2024
- Well, after the.... "events" of our last episode, it's time to shift down a gear and head back to the Penthouse. Time to sort through our affairs....
As always, thanks for the love and support!
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Little detail about this episode that IMO not enough people know: They actually did write and film scenes of Mencken at the wake, and they even included shots from them in some of the trailers, but they ended up being cut because the creators didn't consider them essential enough. After reading the scripts, I actually think they add some context that makes the election plotline in this season more interesting and illuminates some character motivations - it's information that is in parts implied later on, but that the show never fully states outright and that some people miss in the subtext. So in case you care for it, here's a short summary of the deleted scenes, with no spoilers for episodes beyond 4X4:
Mencken arrives at the apartment as a rumor circulates that he has been making tasteless jokes about Logan's death to his campaign team ("I thought he was dead already!"), which Mencken brushes aside as banter that Logan himself would've enjoyed. After having a short talk with the sibs where he and Shiv needle each other ("No cameras here, Siobhan. You can kiss me if you want!"), and a little awkward stand-off with Connor about their one-sided "rivalry" (after Connor feels piqued about not being considered important enough to get his own Secret Service security), Mencken whisks Kendall and Roman off for a conversation in private.
He complains to the Roy boys about ATN's coverage (and specifically Cyd’s leadership) not being sympathetic enough to him. He tells them that Logan and himself had a confidential agreement over dinner that ATN would closely cooperate with the Mencken campaign on the election narrative in the last few days, and asks them to honor this backroom deal - Ken and Rome can’t really tell whether this is true or just a bluff from Mencken to manipulate them. And while Rome seems open to the idea, Ken is extremely wary and gives a cold shoulder. Mencken tries to jab at him with an antisemitic “joke” (“Are you gonna welch on a deal? You gonna Jew me?”), which further sours Ken on him, while Roman tries to keep it friendly.
So as Mencken leaves, there’s kind of an interesting situation in that the two CEOs are both unsure about how close their dad’s relationship with Mencken actually was, and whether he would risk ATN’s reputation on fully throwing it behind his quasi-fascist candidacy (which might well be the case, considering Logan’s speech in episode 2 about making ATN “meaner and wilder”). The brothers are also divided on how to proceed in their own relationship with Mencken - Kendall clearly personally dislikes him and is conflicted about him as a business partner, while Roman still wants to closely cooperate with him, even if he might have to do so behind Kendall’s back. And Mencken himself clearly doesn’t see Ken as a “loyal” partner like Roman, but as a reluctant fairweather friend at best, who won’t go all the way and do a dirty deal to win his favor.
Thank you for sharing these! I can understand why they'd cut these scenes, but I agree that the amount of context these would provide would certainly prove helpful...
Stewy steals every scene he's in.
I love how the Old Guard becomes more unleashed and opinionated after Logan's death. You can tell how much they've been waiting for this moment and calculating how to maneuver this situation.
Why am I just noticing the plane on the season poster! So ominous.
shivs actions this entire season are so justified. idc what anyone says. she’s always being pushed out.
Okay but what's annoying is she keeps changing her mind. Make a decision and stick to it.
@@Gus.T how can she when her brothers are so wishy washy? there has been no stability. she has to look after herself at this point. also, kendall & roman can’t make up their minds either. it’s a whole mess.
I've found myself falling in and out of love with her as a character. But now that we are in the final season, I'm significantly more sympathetic to her plight. I would love to re-watch the entire season with all the added context I have now, and see how I feel!
Nah lol. She was outside the company the entire time then feels entitled to the top job.
Even though Logan doesn’t have much time this season. His presence looms over this season like hurricane
'You're speculating in a comic mode.' Gets me every time.
“Yes, in a HUMOROUS VEIN” the way he snarls that lmao😂😂
"Yes, well that is a very funny joke" XD
1:07:55 kieran talking about how difficult it's been for him to shoot these episodes is likely because he's experienced close family loss irl, his oldest sister who was also his best friend died (struck by a car) when he was around 26 and it hit him REALLY hard, messed with him for several years and he's talked about how he never rlly got over it and sometimes he'll b minding his business and he'll suddenly think about her and start crying (I agree w you that he needs some therapy LOL)
I'm happy that you went on that little ramble about the kids seeing a therapist especially roman since he bottles things up and often explodes in unhealthy ways as we've seen throughout the show. Shiv rlly needs a therapist to help with her severe commitment issues and her relationship w her mom, and kendall getting to see one is wonderful because he;'s probably the most mentally ill out of the siblings ! AND YES YES YES ur RIGHT if the first one or even the first 2-3 therapists don't work, KEEP LOOKING because the amount of ppl that dislike therapy and say it doesn't work simply bc of one or two bad experiences are missing out on getting the right personalized help; and this is a HUGE issue w ppl giving up.
how much you hate greg is really giving me LIFEEE i used to yell in rage whenever he came on the screen through this season lmfao
hey i haven't been keeping up with last few reactions (procrastination) but im gonna binge them now and i just wanna say i love your reactions you have great insights and i love that these are over an hour long, succession rlly deserves it ❤
I'm pretty sure it was confirmed to be underlined. But the ambiguity is essential.
Confirmed that it was underlined, not crossed out :)
31:08 Hence Brian Cox still being listed as an actor in the show. His presence will always be felt.
Thanks for sharing your mental health journey. I also struggle and I have for over half my life. It has it's moments when it becomes so bad that it's terrifying but talking to people is so important. Regarding the episode, I agree with Shiv's actions because she is always pushed out. Kendall and Roman deciding to be Co-CEOS behind Shiv's back reminded me of how Kendall got Roman to make him interim CEO in season 1 episode 2. Kendall is looking out for himself and is good at manipulating Roman to back him up, it's a total Logan move. Also, I say this while really liking the three kids, theyr'e such fascinating characters. also, Roman is co-CEO with Kendall, not COO so Kendall is already double-crossing.
Damn.... RIP to the "power-throuple" :(
You don’t cross out from right to left. Jesse Armstrong said that on Twitter. It was underlined
Not to be a contrarian, but personally, when I do my morning checklists at work I do cross out from left to right. But then again, sometimes I'll cross out from left to right and then ALSO cross out from right to left.
I’m sorry. You’re right. You don’t cross out from right to left is what Jesse Armstrong said.
@@MovieMan101 @mheusler im pretty sure jesse armstrong said you dont cross out starting at the bottom...
29:40 Is it crossed out? When you cross out you don't go from the bottom to the top, the line in here goes from the bottom, or looks like it. But it doesn't matter.
That's the whole point - it isn't obvious at all, it is the matter of interpretation, and ofc Shiv would say “crossed out”, but Kendall would want it not to be so. It isn't even a legal document in the end of the day lol.
About Frank changing document - nah, you're overthinking it, in one of the shots when they wave document in the room you can see this line being "crossed out" or "underlined". But it is funny how you're on the same "crossed out"/"underlined" conspiracy. When don't know when this "artefact" appeared on the document exactly, after which season, which episode, after 2x9 or not. We know the document is probably 4 years old.
It's just such an odd choice in my opinion. If it is meant to be an "underline" then it looks like the sloppy slash of an old man. But then if it is a "crossed out" it also looks half-asses. But ultimately, you're right. They keep it effectively vague so that even the audience is asking the same question. Personally, I'm still not 100% sure lol
@@MovieMan101 > If it is meant to be an “underline” then it looks like the sloppy slash of an old man. But then if it is a “crossed out” it also looks half-asses.
Exactly this, yeah, and the whole conversation about it, the basis of who is to take over is half-assed addendum by Logan from who knows when, and Kendall goes off about it as it is a clear sing from his father, when it isn't :)
>Personally, I'm still not 100% sure
no one is, and it doesn't matter, I mean it does, but not the point of “divine sign” significance Kendall puts on it, also not completely insignificant like Shiv makes it to be
Honestly, say what you will about Roman, but in 4x1 Shiv was upset about lawyers conflict her dad set up for Tom, so she went with intrigue on her own, Kendall jumped on it because it is good to upset “daddy”, validated his opinion with numbers, and only Roman was like “hey, guys, I'm here about the new buisness we agreed to do.”. Yes, in the end he is the one who wants Logan's love the most, but also, he is probably the one who could actually do some business without the constant need to get back to Royco/ATN entanglement.