Thanks to Critical Dice and 1985 Games for sponsoring this video! CHECK OUT THEIR KICKSTARTER: bit.ly/DeckStories Also thanks to Mayku for sending me a Formbox to play with. If you think the machine could be great for you (I'm sure it has lots of cool uses for the right person) you can grab one on Amazon: MAYKU FORMBOX (USA) amzn.to/3mxqRD2 (Canada) amzn.to/32FSyBH (UK) amzn.to/2ZOxLtX (Germany) amzn.to/2FH8sTJ SHEETS (USA) amzn.to/35Sqqxd (Canada) amzn.to/3mBNOoz (UK) amzn.to/3mwwdhT (Germany) amzn.to/2FxMYZz (As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases)
I have been looking for exactly The Deck of Stories for ages! ...And its a kickstarter, so I won’t get it for like a year. ;.; (Still gonna pledge tho)
Uncle Jeremy, I enjoyed your take on the FormBox! Your videos are SO well-done, my man! It was definitely a learning process for me. Key things I took away from my first time using the FormBox (and vaccu-forming in general): - Watch the sag (I no longer use the timer) and drop it before it sags TOO low. Helps reduce webbing/creases. - When forming around multiple items, I found they need to be spread out a bit (at least a half-inch, I'd say) to get a form around each item. Otherwise the plastic sorta joins across them. - When starting out, I would basically slam it down (the heavy-duty locking mechanism at the top almost forces you to, so it's tricky) but now I break/unlock that upper hold and then EASE it down a little, allowing the plastic to form down and around the part before pulling suction. - Shape of object is important. My bucks/forms for action figure blisters, when rounded, worked better than hard-edged versions, in terms of reducing webbing. As always, slick job on this video! :D
Craftsman was on BMC? Oh...please share a link, I am too lazy to search! Shout out and much love to my favorite crafters J from BMC and the....craftsman (imagine me dodging the line of sight☺😊)
lol, i look at box foam so differently now, and ive taken multiple panels of pink foam from my sister and landlord and friends, they were just laying there collecting dust, good source for free foam is your local foam insulation installer, he most likely will have a bunch of cut ends, broken sheets, just go and ask them, i got a big garbage can filled for free, no light green foam though :( oh well i wont complain about free.
01:00 - - "Until recently it hasn't been an 'at home' technology." Kids these days. Mattel introduced the "Vac-U-Form" back in 1965 for making small plastic toys. It came with over 50 molds. "You can tell it's MATTEL, it's swell!"
Hardcore aircraft modellers used to use vacform devices in the seventies. I think some of them started down this track with the Mattel gizmo, using it to hatch (say) drop tanks and canopies. With the bigger/fancier machines the end-point was carving balsa half-fuselages and wings from plans and moulding onto them.
we had a thingmaker when I was a kid. It had both the ability to mold plastic creatures from plastigoop and vacuform stuff. It was an awesomely fun tool. The only thing toy-like about it (the original, not the newer ones), is the small size of the build plate. It could vacuform like a pro for small objects. I think this was it: www.patti-goop.com/uploads/1/3/0/3/13032746/good-use-it-web_orig.jpg
A previous job had me working around the industrial version of these things, and I made a troubleshooting guide for them. So, here's some tips for you: For soft corners and poor detail: -Most of your problem areas are for deep, steep draws. You might be pushing the limits of the process for those, at least at this scale. -Your best bet is to get the sheet hotter, or increase the vacuum power -For inner details, additional vacuum holes might be needed like you said. -The way industrial thermoformers deal with intricate detail is to have a vacuum mold on one side of the sheet, and a pressure chamber on the other. (In those machines, the heater is off to the side. The sheet is moved horizontally out of the heater, and the mold and pressure box are raised/lowered to sandwich the sheet) For corner webbing: -This is the opposite problem. The material is too hot and has too much slack. -Try heating the sheet for a little less time or a lower temp. -If the webbing is on an outside corner, you can add random features outside of the part that will just take up some of the slack.
hello! I am a dental techician I work with such a machine. When you get those ridges around the model it's because the material is too hot! Try at lower temperature. Also you can increase the suction by using a rubber frame.
Best use for a vacuum former machine: a vehicle or something with complex curves. Carve a buck from wood, suckdown styrene over it and you have a great form for putting other greeblies on. Relatedly: vehicle canopies. Same idea, but in clear.
Also making custom forms when material allows to use vacuum forming, for example for chocolate and small scale production, but big enough to make resin casting too slow.
that vehicle canopies idea could actually work well if you know what you're doing. very durable and accurately shaped i would imagine, and it wouldn't be too complex
One thing I did when I had access to a pro vacuum former back in art school was to make inverted molds. That requires casting the piece you want to reproduce in plaster, drilling that full of little holes, and then sucking into the negative. This makes things WAY more crisp. I'd love to make dimensional maps of my world with this technique someday. One way you could probably get some use out of your vacuum former would be to do tiles for terrain that's going to get the full grout/grass treatment on top. Though it wouldn't be significantly faster than just carving foam, so...
Josh Foreman Create that using dissolving resin/SLA. First model a thing/get the 3D file. Print it in negative. Do the vacuform and put the form in water with the neg in it. No cutting/etc. You end up with a good mold. Sure, it can be a hassle... But I think it might work.
We had a commercial unit at Techshop, and did quite a lot of experimentation with various materials. MDF is surprisingly porous and works great for patterns. You can get a great spray-able graphite dry lube from Home Despot that works well.
The "Weird ridges" are called webbing and in a negative mold would end up on the inside where the would matter less. and as you say negative molds make for mush better detail. There is also a science to vacuuforming different materials stretch different amounts and cool at different rates. as a general rule the plastic should belly down around half the height of your mould.
My dad had a Mattel Vacu-form for his slot car racing hobby in the early 60s. The ideal moldable form is going to have holes in it to enable suction around the forms. It also looks like you weren't getting the plastic (styrene?) to a proper temperature.
Back in the seventies I made s vaccuform frame, used my oven,and s good shop vac for suction and it worked fine. At that time I was making canopies and other parts for model aeroplanes and tanks. Winging it does have a lot of benefits.
It's how all the Stormtrooper armor is made. Most of the ones you see at conventions are made from those original molds that found there way out of Lucasfilm.
Many years ago I operated a factory vacuum former making refrigerator insides. My guess that most of your problems is not enough suck and maybe not enough heat. Try with a more powerful vacuum cleaner or compressor that does suck as well as blow and I think you'd see a difference in the way the plastic forms around the object. Also as you said undercuts are a no-no.
I know multiple people have said Adam Savage, but also Bill Doran from Punished Props Academy has made a few videos about vacuum forming and making his own small and large scale formers. He made vacuum formed space helmet visors for Adam Savage, in fact.
I can see potential for making a mold of various tiles, inclines, stairs, and other mostly-flat surfaces. You could mass-produce basic versions and get creative with the post-mold detail work (roughing the surfaces, tweaking the paint palettes, the list goes on). Some ideas: -The walls of cages (like you've made previously) can be reproduced with a medium that may be sturdier and easier to assemble -You could mold miniature scaffold plates and gears for industrial builds and recreate them with a less-rigid medium to more-easily create effect details (chips, dents, melting, tool marks, etc.) -With practice it may be possible to merge shapes, like the front of a skull merged with a metal fence for an ornate door piece
When I was in the army, a machine like this was used to make signs to direct nits to various locations during major exercises. The bonus for me was that the plastic sheets were PERFECT for making model buildings for my model railroad and building things for my D&D playing friends, (I have been making terrain for about 50 years) The best part of making terrain for that long is that I am still learning new skills from people like yourself, the members if the Tabletop Crafters and model railroaders...
Man, I've made so many things on vacuum formers over the last twenty years. They're freaking awesome. Just needs a bit of planning to get good results. I've never just grabbed something and stuck it in the vacformer. It's always a planned process.
This tool is perfect for making the following items: -Shields for minis -Radar dishes -Engine nozzles -Doors -Starship hulls -Aircraft fuselages Basically anything that either needs to be thin and strong, or else large and lightweight.
Think it would definitely help having something to raise the item you want to vacuum form up about an inch underneath said item to keep from webbing up towards the base of the buck.
I used to use one of these when I was younger to make custom shells for RC cars and boats, they can be pretty fiddly to get the temperature settings just right, but once you get that dialled in they can be pretty useful. And you’re right about the air holes, for larger or more complex shapes they are crucial.
You are supposed to work in negative. The “good” side is the side where plastic is wrapping around the item on the suction plate. So it is good for moulds and yes you need a lot of suction holes in your master for good result.
The last few months have been super hard, isolation, no work, and then my Father passed from diabetes Sept 9th, wasnt even allowed to say goodbye cuz of the Covid bs. To keep my mind off things and get away from the reality of life ive started to collect and makeup a crafting bench and I have to send some thank yous to you BMC, ive been binge watching all your videos and they have been very helpful in keeping my mind off life and into a new hobby im really enjoying, first projects im gonna start tmw is your basic foam core tiles, got 2 sheets, its the easy peel kind, and even found a store here that has an amazing selection of paints and Mod Podge in bulk available, even got a local foam insulation installer willing to give me all his extra cut ends and pieces (a good source of free foam for anyone, just talk to your local foam insulation installer). My goal project is to recreate my old HeroQuest gameboard using LED lights, anyways, Thanks BMC for being here for me, unintentionally you have cheered up and kept a sad man happy and engaged in something new and time consuming, from one Canadian to another, thank you BMC.
I made my own for making action figure packaging for my own range of action figures, and instead of buying the clear petg sheets etc to use, I now use plastic 2 litre pop bottles that I cut in to A4 sized sheets and use that to pull down on my 4 buck mould. It works a treat. I just made a slightly smaller than a4 sized shoe box out of wood, measured and drilled 2cm spaced holes on top and a port on the side for the vacuum cleaner hose. To heat the plastic I have a halogen heater sat on its back that I sit the tray holding the petg/styrene etc over until it bows down, then I pick the tray up using some side handles, switch the vacuum cleaner on, and pull it down over the box. It works perfectly. I must say that the model featured in this video. The price is slightly too much, considering it doesn't have a vacuum built in and you have to use your own. When you make your own, I recommend sealing the inside of your box with silicone sealer anywhere there is a joint etc, also you can use it to make a gasket around the rim of the box around the outer edge, so when you pull your tray down, you will get a perfect vacuum seal.
It's a specialized tool, but when you need it you really need it. You can use it for making food molds, packaging, drawer inserts, helmet visors, masks, curved panels, and tons more things.
At like $700, you could easily buy a FDM and a Resin 3d printer... especially something like an Ender 3 and Anycubic 2k Photon... both trending under $200 each right now.
I had the Mattel Vacu-form machine when I was a kid and then I worked for a business doing professional LARP where we used a professional vacuum forming company to make SF wall panels. My experience is that they're a special-use tool that is very nice for a limited number of applications. * They're really good for making smoothly curved surfaces (or rather making copies of smoothly curved surfaces). They're not as good with sharp edges. * You have to have a place to evacuate the air in each dip and it has to be capable of passing enough air volume for the shape. This is tricky to figure out. * You often want to have some stand-off from the suction bed, because the plastic will crease and if you can raise the piece, that crease can be moved to a place where it doesn't matter. * Molded parts are strong in compression along the axis of suction, but very weak in other directions, especially near the edge after you cut it away from the waste plastic. Plan on supporting any edges well. * High-relief pieces are very problematic, and tight detail is nearly impossible to replicate. * As you mentioned, thin clear pieces are a good use case for this tech, whether vehicle canopies or windshields or building windows. (You can always make parts opaque when you want.) * If you want anything with undercuts, you'll have to make the part in multiple pieces. And assembling multiple pieces of thin vacuum formed plastic is ... tricky. Broadly, I would use a 3D printer for almost all small pieces today (obviously not available until pretty recently) and only consider vacuum forming for large pieces or possibly for smoothly curved transparent pieces where printing lines would be a problem.
Go garage sale scouting. A cheep space heater and a vacuum cleaner plus some what ever junk you have for a frame and you're an afternoon of expedient engineering away from your own table.
Drops the sheet. ME: VACUUM! VACUUM! COME ON! Whew! Cool toy, but as you mentioned, little pricey for the home user. I've got a friend in Saskatchewan that uses a bigger homemade rig to form plastic for armor for the medieval fighting we do.
Yeah, that was my thinking as well. It's might be more useful for a cosplayer to make the little bits and bobs on a character's outfit as light weight as possible. Or make smaller pieces of armor or just use a template or small scale and make that over and over to make scale armor. I don't really see it being all that useful for making table top terrain pieces though.
A couple of decades ago, a few of us made styrene (I think?) armor by making a paper pattern of the armor piece, making the rough cuts from the sheets of material, then, while the person for whom the armor was being made wore two sweatshirts, and the rest welder's gloves or insulated leather gloves heated the material over a gas stove until is got soft, then we all quickly pressed the VERY hot material against the person to form it to a contoured shape. We thought this was very hilarious until one guy's wife came home and made us open the windows. Then we ate pizza and watch the ST:TNG episode where the Enterprise is destroyed. "Cause and Effect". - The armor was nice, the episode was better. The pizza was substandard, but we were all poisoned with styrene fumes, so we ate it all (not the armor or the Star Trek) - Long story short, a vacuum former (larger than this one) would have helped us quite a bit, and helped avoid a few burns.
A dental vacuum former does the same thing but is a lot cheaper. Around $120 USD VS $700 USD. The working area is 7X7 inches, but for tabletop props that should be big enough.
Using a larger one at secondary school over 15 years I made a tub about the size of a medium butter tub with none of these issues. I don't know if its just because you spedd up the footage, but it looks like your slamming the plastic sheet down, try doing it a bit slower to give the plastic time to deform and stretch over the former. It could also be to do with the quality of this vacuum former though. Yoghurt pots and butter tubs are made like this and they don't have the creases. If you don't want to waste the plastic sheets from failed attempts, put it on a flat surface and heat it up with a hot air gun (a hairdryer my get hot enough) and it will resume its previous shape, just be carful not to heat it to much and melt it completely.
vacu-form is in fact a bit of an art. Learning how and where to add vacuum holes and what parts to add height to to get clean pulls just takes time and practice. I love the windows idea, that is a really great use for it.
I've used Vacuum Form machines related to my work and one of the things that is often a struggle is the webbing (the stringy ridges you mentioned), depending on the shape it can be very hard to get rid of. Likewise the undercut issue you had with the rocks can be a problem. A way around both at once is to add something underneath roughly the same contour your forming and seal the seam. That area of the formed item gets trimmed off anyways so if webbing forms its a non issue and allows you to feather the transitions of rocks with some kind of filler to eliminate the undercut. The sharper the transitions the higher the webbing risks. On the other parts that did not get good definition, your right Vent holes would solve that problem. They dont have to be big usually, just a way for the air to get sucked out. the deeper the pull the more the material wants to stretch so start with a thicker sheet if you can and expect it to get thinner after forming. Great review, I enjoy your channel and I agree with your review. Great break down and assessment!
From what I can see you need more suction and more heat - vacuum forming is great in certain circumstances. I have used one in making parts for dollhouse miniatures namely trashcans, and kitchen plates etc. And in war-gaming terrain to make armour plates or with patients things like electrical towers. The taller the item you are forming the more heat you need to get the appropriate sag in the material. With the toy panels and the like if there are recesses in the middle that do not connect to the perimeter of the object, they need draft holes drilling through them for the vacuum to work. To make moulds from the rocks just build up the bases with play-doh or similar to eliminate undercuts.
User error, you can use a hard tool with a slightly rounded edge (paint brush handle, plastic butter knife etc) and flatten the ridges down whilst the plastic is being suctioned still. Usecase: putting together complex shapes for mass production through repeated vacuuforming. Make a cool kitbash terrain piece or building etc, then vacuuform it over and over again, faster and lighter weight than casting and a lot less messy. For instance, nearly all plastic masks and armor costume pieces mass produced and sold in stores are vacuuformed from clay sculpts, wooden lasts or plastic kitbashes
I used to build bucks for the vacuform. Mostly it was specialized trays for jewelry display cases. Later I made shaped trays for my crafting tools. I would fill the bottom of the trays with latex foam to make them more resilient. My tool box is a thing of beauty.
One thing that can help is a hair drier or heat gun - soften the plastic where those ridges are forming. I built one, oh, around 1983, I think - for making costume armor for a recreation society - large items, low detail, but for the task it worked well. But it was also designed to take 3 foot sheets of plastic. And fairly rugged - not up to SCA style combat, but good enough for boffa weapons. About the mid nineties there was a company using one about the size of the one you have for making low detail facades for fantasy terrain - the ones I used were Geigeresque Tyranid terrain. They also made a 25mm scale version of the big tank from Steve Jackson's game Ogre.
Plenty of people have already made their own, they are fairly common. There's a ton of things you could do with one. Have a few basic containers that you've turned into a prop base, like columns, but only have the one? Make copies! Then you can decorate them. And with some practice making molds is pretty easy. As for the lines, part of the issue is the strength of the vacuum, which is why some use vacuum pumps to empty a tank and then pull the air very quickly. The rest is mostly due to the shapes being used/too many shapes too close together. For more detail you need vents in the piece.
i used a vacuum former all the time back when i worked in a product design workshop. couple of tips for you! -the reason you are getting those ridges running up to your moulds is because you have the plastic too hot. when you see the plastic sagging then its too hot! -i almost never used a timer for heating the plastic. the best way to get it bang on in my experience is to touch it (wear gloves if you can obviously) if the plastic is bouncy but not slack then it is bang on! -a tight seal around the plastic for suction is essential. consider maybe modifying your device with some sealant strips if the seal is lacklustre. the vacuum formers i used were big industrial bad boys with lots of suction and big rubber sealant strips. -strong suction, an airtight seal and even heat is what will give you crispy smooth moulds. -try to avoid using foams for moulding. they can melt under the heat and you'll either get a bad mould or you'll never get the foam out! if you are going to use foam for organic shapes then best thing is to treat it so it is nice and hard on the outside. sculptamould to seal it for example. - consider using a non heat reactive mould releaser for your moulds to get them out at the other end. the best thing to help you in the regard is the right TYPE of moulds. you touched on it in your video in terms of under cuts. similarly, perfectly vertical edges can screw you over so try to get a slight taper on anything you put in it. -the 2 key things these guys are used for is reverse moulds for casting and replicatable, lightweight shapes. for example, these are used a lot for prop making. hollow gun parts for props that can be made in seconds are a very common use for example. -terrain is your key with this. angular geometric shapes like Necron buildings for example would be perfect! -styrene is king for these! don't bother with any other type of plastic!
Professional Vacumformer. Sealed box hooked to a shopvac, with a heating element. I have worked with one for a couple of years ages ago :). using heat resistant gloves to smooth out the plastic will give you better results. and you are on the right path that air holes will give you better results. the vacuformer is good for grebels and making cosplay armor quickly. Another use is to make wrecked vehicles cheaply.
Yeah, I had a feeling you would feel this way about it when I saw you put the video up. Vacuum forming sounds fantastic as an idea. But in practise it takes a lot of set up to prepare a object to be formed. Lots of tiny air holes needed to allow suction for any areas within the piece, lower than its peak. Which is why the tiles and you weren’t fully detailed. Also you need to account for the bevel at the bottom with flush pieces or undercuts with non flush pieces by packing them off the bed with a raft. So the detail covers the entire part not 95% of it. It’s a pain, it can do cool things and saved a project for me at uni. But overall it’s not a very versatile tool in a world of 3D printers. And is only as good as the objects you can make without it.
Keep up with the vacuform. Once you have played with certain geometries and venting on individual pieces it can do some incredible negatives. It excels in stamping out repeatable shapes or taking glued-together objects to make a solid surface. My real objection is that your model is quite small for terrain. Experiment with heat and other plastics to get some unique features. This tool is really useful, but it shines with larger beds.
Have to agree with most of the assessments here. The issue I have with this is that it is just not practical. There are other easier ways to do what we do in nearly every case I can think of to use this for. Possibly if you wanted to make some sort of bas relief wall for a room or something like that and are not skilled in carving (raises hand - "Yes Please") and sculpting....but even that...I just do not see the usefulness of going through the hassle of setting up everything to do this. And I CERTAINLY cannot justify the space required to leave it up. But I appreciate it for what it is and you for reviewing it. Not trying to knock the product or your decision to review it, just don't see it being a useful tool for crafting.
A simple technique mastered by many 12 year old school children here in the UK - when taught Craft Design Technology. You can imagine the amount of laughter when I watched this video.
the opaque ones are good for making the base of wall sections, instead of needing modpodge - you can create several copies of a basic tile or terrain section, have a few dozen of them, and then detail them all differently to have variety, without needing a lot of expenditure on the structure the details go on (for example, making a small hill or a wall segment to duplicate, and then adding the colors and details afterwards to make the hills all have different tree layouts, but they all have teh same, easily pathable central section o put minis on) This would be extra useful for making 'before and after' setpieces, such as a winter hillside and its summer version, making sure the hills themselves are identical easily.
If you are old enough you will remember Bellona vacuum-formed model tanks. I still have a French Somua tank in 1/72nd from the 1970's. A friend of mine did a German A7 from WWI. Today, you'd use a 3D printer.
Watching other makers using vacuum form machines, Adam Savage, Punished Props, it seems they always help the vacuum along by pressing the plastic down close to the object with their fingers, usually with gloves for heat protection, to help mold the plastic to the tight spots right when it first forms the vacuum
Vacuforming is an art unto itself. To get cleaner lines where you want them, add more (or less, lol) pressure; ie put oblique (toe nail) aspects in the hard detail. Don't take much, 1mm holes around the points where your vac to get clean detail is a good start. The 'flow lines' you get when forming (those annoying areas where the plastic adheres to itself instead of the plug) can be overted with downward pressure to the area of contention before appling vaccume (a damp rag will work for simple molds)
The forms you were using could be called male, drawing the styrene down over a form ( buck) . What you need is a female form where styrene is drawn in to the pattern , that way you get the detail . You need to drill small holes ( 1.5 mm ) in to this female form and that will draw down the vacccum . If you use it on the male buck you can use your fingers to help press down the styrene. Again like any moulding you have to watch the undercuts or you will have to cut your bucks out of the mould which as you've seen can cause damage to the styrene. I would recommend the Adam savage tutorials for basic use. The machine has its purposes it's just finding over time what you can use it for . Go to your local plastic supply and get large sheets of styrene , it's called HIPS high impact polystyrene sheet , same stuff as evergreen sheet and what plastic kits are made from at a very good price .
A big use of vacuforming is that you can combine multiple material types in your buck without having to worry about them being fully attached, then make the form so you have a lightweight or mold version of the combined shapes. For example, put those half skulls on another shape like the pyramids and then vacuform them together.
I've never used a vac-former but I can see it being good for kitbashing things together into a mold. You know taking some greebles and making an item out of them vac-form it and cast it.
One way to solve the ridges/wrinkles issue is to have a metal sculpting tool to gently press down around the edges of your piece while the vacuum is on and the plastic is still malleable. Another way is simply to have a lip or ridge of extra material around the bottom of your piece. I've used vacuum forming only a couple of times, once for simple plastic sheets, and once for Kydex, which I'd actually like to do more of to make some cosplay armor and for custom sheaths/holsters for blades and firearms.
Styrofoam can't be vac formed as its full of too much air, the machine can't pull a seal on it. As for the rocks they will work but they need to be raised from the bed on some modeling clay. The webbing is mostly a geometry issue but can be helped by having a slope down to the bed rather than a sharp corner.
The beginning of this video is me with any new technology! I tried to play a Nintendo Switch Lite just the other day and I took about 10 photos before I managed to load Tetris...
Those "ridges" you mention are called "webbing" and they are a function of the depth of draw and proximity of parts. Too much draw and/or parts too close together does this. If you can, you might not because of the design of that machine, allow the styrene to droop about the same amount as the part is high before shutting off the heat and dropping it onto the platen. For some bits, you can also get in there with a small rag and coax the styrene into tighter corners. But, yeah, you need to have vent holes in all of the major low areas for the air to get pulled out. I think prop makers would get more from a vacuum machine, honestly. That said, I have used it for terrain.
The softer the styrene is as it heats the easier it forms. If you flick it with your finger while it's heating and it is close to hello it's ready. If the surface area of the item is large and covers more of the vacuum surface you need to drill small holes to help with suction of the detail. Also if the item is tall predrilling holes in it too.
Usually styrene is sold as "HIPS", high impact polystyrene, if you search for that, you might find it. They are usually sold in very big sheets, but the price is really good compared to the small hobby ones that cost a fortune.
Could be fun to make some moulds for modular sci-fi corridors and floors, with built-in grid patterns from plastic mesh and other generic textured surfaces. You could probably make a negative of various different textures to use with Green Stuff or other modelling materials, for use with bases etc. Thing to do is use foam board as your overall base-layer because you can use a pin to poke plenty of holes in it for the vacuum to pull the plastic into corners.
Vac formers are great for producing objects with complex compound curves but really come into their own when you have a larger one capable of producing items too large to make easily with 3D printing or other techniques. A useful tool but probably more suited to making props and stuff for cosplay and RC models than for miniature crafting
Couple of years back there was a company that used to sell vaccuformed scenery 'blanks'. Imagine building one straight section of a trench system, vaccuforming that ten times and then adding sanding and flock to the plastic shells. They had a couple of fairly neutral different shapes like gun entrenchments, bunkers and modular rivers iirc. Don't remember what they were called though. Probably more useful for wargamers than for roleplaying games.
You’re right about the holes to draw the air through. Also would a negative mould work better as the detail is held better on the side of the styrene that touches the mould?
There is a height limitation at that size machine, as you say those "ridges" are a result of tall things and how the plastic can and can not stretch. With some work to make a nice original you can knock out stuff like mass amounts of crates super quickly, flock/sand and paint and you can fill a table in a day. Someone else mentioned that Adam Savage has a good vid on the pros, cons and usage of vacuforming, highly recommended!
First correction vac forming is an at home tech, it’s just always been a diy at home rather than something you buy ready to go. Loads of cos player use them
Try using MDF as the buck and make sure there are no under cuts. MDF allows air to move thru it pretty well. Fun fact MDF is also used at the spoil /sacrificial board on vacuum tables for CNCs because air can still pass thru it
I see the vacuum formed products more on lightweight RC-models than on tabletop gaming. But you can produce very fast storage trays for transportating miniatures.
I use packs of styrene from Slaters Plastikard, have done since the 60s, I also use their microstrip and microrod quite a lot. You can make similar items by heating a sheet of plasticard under the grill until it goes floppy, laying it over the master and pressing down with a folded towel (or make a piece with a matching hole and pushing that down over the master, I never managed to do that right though). Airfix mag back then often had things like 'build the trainer version of this aircraft' in which you carved a balsa insert and then made the longer canopy using a plunge mould (I still have the scars, never was any good at that) or building some truck and moulding the mudguards round the end of a hot poker (also have scars from that). Back then Bellona Mouldings sold a wide range of vac-formed scenic items, these days a similar but smaller range is available from Amera Mouldings, cheap, sturdy and can be damned handy. The masters take a hammering in vac-forming so they don't last as long as an injection mould, but the end result is cheaper. As the other commentator mentioned an inverted mould provides you with way better results. You can also build a vacuum box, the heating element is inside the box and once the plastic has softened you let the air in to press it down over the mould, too technical for me. Since I retired I fill my free time making up sets of toy soldiers to give away, adding the things you can't buy such as bunkers with removable roofs and loads of terrain etc. The rule of threes means I have to try and make three of some things and a machine might be handy in particular for sci-fi craft (kits are no longer pocket money items and things come and go - try finding the Airfix Orion space shuttle, my preferred transport aircraft, or the Heller Frellon which was the basis for my hover-jet transports, very Jerry Anderson). Having made the parts you then need to develop the skills to use them as kit-parts, there is a lot of trimming and there are some truly arcane techniques used with vac form kits but when the alternatives are nothing or $illy money I'm still tempted and will take a look at the link.
Just realized this thing would be great for damming off bases for resin pours. Put the base with something to form the walls of the dam like a pill bottle with the top cut off. Flip it upside down and vacuuform form it, pull the pill bottle or whatever out and you have a perfect dam that would even catch overflow. Then just tear away
You can use modeling clay to "pedestal" pieces and get rid of undercuts as well as drop the wrinkles below your piece. VF are really good for making things like airplane canopies, wings, car bodies - mostly modeling stuff. Also good for making quick molds because they can (with the right part) very quickly reproduce a positive into a negative mold with great detail. I think for you (just guessing), there will be some rare but useful applications. I'm thinking mostly making quick molds. But who knows.
The scale modelling hobby sometimes makes use of vacformed canopies for model aircraft as they can be made thinner that way than injection moulding can do. They're usually sold by small companies as upgrades to standard injection moulded kits. I've also seen forum threads about people making their own vacform machines for this purpose. Some small companies also sell model aircraft kits where the main components are moulded in vacform sheets, with detail parts often being made in white metal or resin. These are typically seem as fairly challenging to build.
to help get rid of the "ridge" lines, you need to put the object on a lifter block that smaller then the base (by about 1/2")of the object(but the same shape as the bottom of the object) so the plastic sheeting can wrap underneath the shape of the object before it touches the vacumn table. this will you a nicer object, and the (ridges) will not be on the object you are forming, but where it doesnt matter, and you can just cut them off. if that makes sense.
The main use i can see for it it would be making jigs for curving styrene and putting angles in ot eliminating the need to glue or fix corners or bend it by hand, also using it to add a texture to the styrene, bricks, stonewall, paneling etc before cutting it
You need to put the piece on a relief base to help pull the styrene down to limit the creases, Adam Savage has a good video on vacuum forming you may want to watch.
I feel like there should be a material that you can vacuum form into a mold that would retain a bit more plasticity once it's been set. Beyond that I feel like there might be some utility in making large texture sheets that you could use to panel the side of a building or something, but the things that sound like they would be useful, also feel like they would be difficult to make a reusable master negative of.
To correct for undercuts, it’s best to use a sculpting clay like Chavant NSP medium to build a base around your object which will elevate it off of your platform about an eighth of an inch -which will also help with the creases and ridges. Another thing that will be helpful for you is to get a rounded silicone tipped brush and cover that in a piece of old cotton T-shirt, and as you bring the styrene down onto the part use the rounded end of the tool to help burnish and push the plastic down onto the vacuum plate. That will help illuminate a lot of the ridges and creases. Also, instead of relying on the timer to tell you when your plastic is hot, use the plastic as a guide and watch for it to droop significantly. I noticed in the video it didn’t look like your plastic was quite hot enough. That can also cause ridges, and prevent the plastic from reproducing a little finer detail. I think with a little practice you will find that your vacuum former can be a very versatile and useful tool for the type of work that you do.
You could incorporate that plastic 'webbing' the vacuform makes on the edges of the mould when doing far more organic items that could need some added weirdness, similar to those spider cocoons you did a while back.
I would look in to seeing if the suction can be inproved. Looks like some of the details are not transferring properly because of it... or maybe the seal hasn't been made properly. Other than that looks like it could be a grate tool to use.
Used a workshop size one when I was younger. They are pretty fiddly, if the piece is too tall it would cause the plastic to fold at the corners. If it has lots of details it need vent holes to allow the vacuum to pull properly. The plastic itself is pretty fragile and if you don’t de-mould properly it just tears itself to shreds. Prototyping it’s great. Mould making? Stick to silicone.
i reccomend tested's videos on vacuum-forming, as well as the one where he talks about the large scale blue wifi radio prop, i cant find a link or a name, but, he mentions a lot of tips in that video as the prop was vacuum-formed for the most part, might help.
you can use it to mass produce bits and pieces for terrain, or to make molds though dont try to do too much detail as it often doesnt come out. I think a heat gun might be able to be used to help it form tighter but not 100% on that.
In theatre we use large scale vacuum form machines to produce large panels of bricks quickly. Maybe you can figure out a way to miniaturise that tactic
Thanks for the video. If you are looking for cheap styrene I buy mine as sheets from plastic distributors. You can get a 4x6’ sheets and at a cost far below hobby costs.
Thanks to Critical Dice and 1985 Games for sponsoring this video! CHECK OUT THEIR KICKSTARTER: bit.ly/DeckStories
Also thanks to Mayku for sending me a Formbox to play with. If you think the machine could be great for you (I'm sure it has lots of cool uses for the right person) you can grab one on Amazon:
MAYKU FORMBOX
(USA) amzn.to/3mxqRD2
(Canada) amzn.to/32FSyBH
(UK) amzn.to/2ZOxLtX
(Germany) amzn.to/2FH8sTJ
SHEETS
(USA) amzn.to/35Sqqxd
(Canada) amzn.to/3mBNOoz
(UK) amzn.to/3mwwdhT
(Germany) amzn.to/2FxMYZz
(As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases)
for greeblies I've recently have been using Blue Stuff by Green Stuff World and its amazing for creating tiny moulds and its reusable.
I have been looking for exactly The Deck of Stories for ages!
...And its a kickstarter, so I won’t get it for like a year. ;.;
(Still gonna pledge tho)
"this doesn't seem right?"
*Intense screaming*
Ah...Crafters and new tools...
Hey why not use that to make molds of tiles for quick resin tiles and etc.
Israel Martinez the detail would be too low and resin gets too hot during curing. The resin would also likely bond to the plastic.
Uncle Jeremy, I enjoyed your take on the FormBox! Your videos are SO well-done, my man!
It was definitely a learning process for me. Key things I took away from my first time using the FormBox (and vaccu-forming in general):
- Watch the sag (I no longer use the timer) and drop it before it sags TOO low. Helps reduce webbing/creases.
- When forming around multiple items, I found they need to be spread out a bit (at least a half-inch, I'd say) to get a form around each item. Otherwise the plastic sorta joins across them.
- When starting out, I would basically slam it down (the heavy-duty locking mechanism at the top almost forces you to, so it's tricky) but now I break/unlock that upper hold and then EASE it down a little, allowing the plastic to form down and around the part before pulling suction.
- Shape of object is important. My bucks/forms for action figure blisters, when rounded, worked better than hard-edged versions, in terms of reducing webbing.
As always, slick job on this video! :D
Can't wait for the inevitable black magic crafsman collab.
You didn’t see when Crafsman was on BMC? You skipping vids son? Tsk tsk 😛
Craftsman was on BMC? Oh...please share a link, I am too lazy to search! Shout out and much love to my favorite crafters J from BMC and the....craftsman (imagine me dodging the line of sight☺😊)
@@sauronsauronsauronsauron8891 ruclips.net/video/ShS65okaahA/видео.html
:D
When your fave youtubers are commenting on your fave youtubers! :D
Adam savage has a great video on his own home made one but shows how to use it and how to get around alot of the issues you where having
Yes i would also recomend watching it
Was also on my way to mention that vid!
The Crafsman also did a video on the FormBox, and he went into a bit of detail regarding webbing.
Punished props also do a good one that just uses a shop vac and a toaster oven
@@Brett1692 I came into the comments section to say just this. Link: ruclips.net/video/Gx66mS7U2vY/видео.html
It speaks volumes about the hobby when the foam packaging is the first thing that grabs my attention.
Same here 🙋🏼♀️😂
lol, i look at box foam so differently now, and ive taken multiple panels of pink foam from my sister and landlord and friends, they were just laying there collecting dust, good source for free foam is your local foam insulation installer, he most likely will have a bunch of cut ends, broken sheets, just go and ask them, i got a big garbage can filled for free, no light green foam though :( oh well i wont complain about free.
Good for making nissen huts - no undercuts!
I can always rely on Lindy to make me google things!
It's Lindybeige! Still waiting on the rest of your coverage on the last kingdom by the way...
I think on this side of the pond Quonset hut is a more familiar term.
Did not expect you to be here, this is amazing
We need a Beige Magic Craft Collab :D
Thank you for the new video and for showing me that I don't need a vacuum former.
Happy to help!
You're still gonna get it though. 😂
01:00 - - "Until recently it hasn't been an 'at home' technology."
Kids these days. Mattel introduced the "Vac-U-Form" back in 1965 for making small plastic toys. It came with over 50 molds. "You can tell it's MATTEL, it's swell!"
That was a toy though.
@@BlackMagicCraftOfficial I'm not going to lie - after watching your review, and the one that Crafsman did, I think this one is a toy, too.
@@WilSisney I'd say it's prosumer level. Def not what any professional shop would use, but much better than a toy.
Hardcore aircraft modellers used to use vacform devices in the seventies. I think some of them started down this track with the Mattel gizmo, using it to hatch (say) drop tanks and canopies. With the bigger/fancier machines the end-point was carving balsa half-fuselages and wings from plans and moulding onto them.
we had a thingmaker when I was a kid. It had both the ability to mold plastic creatures from plastigoop and vacuform stuff. It was an awesomely fun tool. The only thing toy-like about it (the original, not the newer ones), is the small size of the build plate. It could vacuform like a pro for small objects.
I think this was it: www.patti-goop.com/uploads/1/3/0/3/13032746/good-use-it-web_orig.jpg
A previous job had me working around the industrial version of these things, and I made a troubleshooting guide for them. So, here's some tips for you:
For soft corners and poor detail:
-Most of your problem areas are for deep, steep draws. You might be pushing the limits of the process for those, at least at this scale.
-Your best bet is to get the sheet hotter, or increase the vacuum power
-For inner details, additional vacuum holes might be needed like you said.
-The way industrial thermoformers deal with intricate detail is to have a vacuum mold on one side of the sheet, and a pressure chamber on the other. (In those machines, the heater is off to the side. The sheet is moved horizontally out of the heater, and the mold and pressure box are raised/lowered to sandwich the sheet)
For corner webbing:
-This is the opposite problem. The material is too hot and has too much slack.
-Try heating the sheet for a little less time or a lower temp.
-If the webbing is on an outside corner, you can add random features outside of the part that will just take up some of the slack.
hello! I am a dental techician I work with such a machine. When you get those ridges around the model it's because the material is too hot!
Try at lower temperature. Also you can increase the suction by using a rubber frame.
Best use for a vacuum former machine: a vehicle or something with complex curves. Carve a buck from wood, suckdown styrene over it and you have a great form for putting other greeblies on. Relatedly: vehicle canopies. Same idea, but in clear.
Also making custom forms when material allows to use vacuum forming, for example for chocolate and small scale production, but big enough to make resin casting too slow.
that vehicle canopies idea could actually work well if you know what you're doing. very durable and accurately shaped i would imagine, and it wouldn't be too complex
whenever ive used vac forms, the inside of the "form" has way more detail, you should pour in some casting plaster and see what i mean :)
One thing I did when I had access to a pro vacuum former back in art school was to make inverted molds. That requires casting the piece you want to reproduce in plaster, drilling that full of little holes, and then sucking into the negative. This makes things WAY more crisp. I'd love to make dimensional maps of my world with this technique someday. One way you could probably get some use out of your vacuum former would be to do tiles for terrain that's going to get the full grout/grass treatment on top. Though it wouldn't be significantly faster than just carving foam, so...
Josh Foreman Create that using dissolving resin/SLA. First model a thing/get the 3D file. Print it in negative. Do the vacuform and put the form in water with the neg in it. No cutting/etc. You end up with a good mold. Sure, it can be a hassle... But I think it might work.
Yeah Josh, low laying heightmap terrain would form fairly well with a sealer, especially if you prep the master with enough ventilation.
We had a commercial unit at Techshop, and did quite a lot of experimentation with various materials. MDF is surprisingly porous and works great for patterns. You can get a great spray-able graphite dry lube from Home Despot that works well.
The "Weird ridges" are called webbing and in a negative mold would end up on the inside where the would matter less. and as you say negative molds make for mush better detail. There is also a science to vacuuforming different materials stretch different amounts and cool at different rates. as a general rule the plastic should belly down around half the height of your mould.
My dad had a Mattel Vacu-form for his slot car racing hobby in the early 60s. The ideal moldable form is going to have holes in it to enable suction around the forms. It also looks like you weren't getting the plastic (styrene?) to a proper temperature.
Back in the seventies I made s vaccuform frame, used my oven,and s good shop vac for suction and it worked fine. At that time I was making canopies and other parts for model aeroplanes and tanks. Winging it does have a lot of benefits.
Adam Savage over at @tested did a video on vacuum bucks (the name for the mold portion). Apparently they made most of Star Wars with these.
Yea, it's a staple of old practical effects. I think with the right experience and know how you could turn out some really great stuff.
It's how all the Stormtrooper armor is made. Most of the ones you see at conventions are made from those original molds that found there way out of Lucasfilm.
Many years ago I operated a factory vacuum former making refrigerator insides. My guess that most of your problems is not enough suck and maybe not enough heat. Try with a more powerful vacuum cleaner or compressor that does suck as well as blow and I think you'd see a difference in the way the plastic forms around the object. Also as you said undercuts are a no-no.
I know multiple people have said Adam Savage, but also Bill Doran from Punished Props Academy has made a few videos about vacuum forming and making his own small and large scale formers. He made vacuum formed space helmet visors for Adam Savage, in fact.
For those curious, the track at 5:22 is the instrumental version of Ga$ Money by Xavy Rusan.
Shara ishvaldas mixtape
I can see potential for making a mold of various tiles, inclines, stairs, and other mostly-flat surfaces. You could mass-produce basic versions and get creative with the post-mold detail work (roughing the surfaces, tweaking the paint palettes, the list goes on).
Some ideas:
-The walls of cages (like you've made previously) can be reproduced with a medium that may be sturdier and easier to assemble
-You could mold miniature scaffold plates and gears for industrial builds and recreate them with a less-rigid medium to more-easily create effect details (chips, dents, melting, tool marks, etc.)
-With practice it may be possible to merge shapes, like the front of a skull merged with a metal fence for an ornate door piece
Yep! You beat me to it. I could see making molds of 3d dungeon tiles and other flat pieces.
When I was in the army, a machine like this was used to make signs to direct nits to various locations during major exercises.
The bonus for me was that the plastic sheets were PERFECT for making model buildings for my model railroad and building things for my D&D playing friends, (I have been making terrain for about 50 years)
The best part of making terrain for that long is that I am still learning new skills from people like yourself, the members if the Tabletop Crafters and model railroaders...
Man, I've made so many things on vacuum formers over the last twenty years. They're freaking awesome. Just needs a bit of planning to get good results. I've never just grabbed something and stuck it in the vacformer. It's always a planned process.
This tool is perfect for making the following items:
-Shields for minis
-Radar dishes
-Engine nozzles
-Doors
-Starship hulls
-Aircraft fuselages
Basically anything that either needs to be thin and strong, or else large and lightweight.
Think it would definitely help having something to raise the item you want to vacuum form up about an inch underneath said item to keep from webbing up towards the base of the buck.
I used to use one of these when I was younger to make custom shells for RC cars and boats, they can be pretty fiddly to get the temperature settings just right, but once you get that dialled in they can be pretty useful. And you’re right about the air holes, for larger or more complex shapes they are crucial.
You are supposed to work in negative. The “good” side is the side where plastic is wrapping around the item on the suction plate. So it is good for moulds and yes you need a lot of suction holes in your master for good result.
The last few months have been super hard, isolation, no work, and then my Father passed from diabetes Sept 9th, wasnt even allowed to say goodbye cuz of the Covid bs. To keep my mind off things and get away from the reality of life ive started to collect and makeup a crafting bench and I have to send some thank yous to you BMC, ive been binge watching all your videos and they have been very helpful in keeping my mind off life and into a new hobby im really enjoying, first projects im gonna start tmw is your basic foam core tiles, got 2 sheets, its the easy peel kind, and even found a store here that has an amazing selection of paints and Mod Podge in bulk available, even got a local foam insulation installer willing to give me all his extra cut ends and pieces (a good source of free foam for anyone, just talk to your local foam insulation installer). My goal project is to recreate my old HeroQuest gameboard using LED lights, anyways, Thanks BMC for being here for me, unintentionally you have cheered up and kept a sad man happy and engaged in something new and time consuming, from one Canadian to another, thank you BMC.
I made a large 24x24" table with dimmer switch, 4 IR Heaters and a wet dry vac. Was a beast and easy to do. Sold it and miss it now
I made my own for making action figure packaging for my own range of action figures, and instead of buying the clear petg sheets etc to use, I now use plastic 2 litre pop bottles that I cut in to A4 sized sheets and use that to pull down on my 4 buck mould. It works a treat. I just made a slightly smaller than a4 sized shoe box out of wood, measured and drilled 2cm spaced holes on top and a port on the side for the vacuum cleaner hose. To heat the plastic I have a halogen heater sat on its back that I sit the tray holding the petg/styrene etc over until it bows down, then I pick the tray up using some side handles, switch the vacuum cleaner on, and pull it down over the box. It works perfectly.
I must say that the model featured in this video. The price is slightly too much, considering it doesn't have a vacuum built in and you have to use your own.
When you make your own, I recommend sealing the inside of your box with silicone sealer anywhere there is a joint etc, also you can use it to make a gasket around the rim of the box around the outer edge, so when you pull your tray down, you will get a perfect vacuum seal.
It's a specialized tool, but when you need it you really need it.
You can use it for making food molds, packaging, drawer inserts, helmet visors, masks, curved panels, and tons more things.
Might have some uses, but I'd rather save for a 3d printer to be honest ^^
At like $700, you could easily buy a FDM and a Resin 3d printer... especially something like an Ender 3 and Anycubic 2k Photon... both trending under $200 each right now.
I had the Mattel Vacu-form machine when I was a kid and then I worked for a business doing professional LARP where we used a professional vacuum forming company to make SF wall panels. My experience is that they're a special-use tool that is very nice for a limited number of applications.
* They're really good for making smoothly curved surfaces (or rather making copies of smoothly curved surfaces). They're not as good with sharp edges.
* You have to have a place to evacuate the air in each dip and it has to be capable of passing enough air volume for the shape. This is tricky to figure out.
* You often want to have some stand-off from the suction bed, because the plastic will crease and if you can raise the piece, that crease can be moved to a place where it doesn't matter.
* Molded parts are strong in compression along the axis of suction, but very weak in other directions, especially near the edge after you cut it away from the waste plastic. Plan on supporting any edges well.
* High-relief pieces are very problematic, and tight detail is nearly impossible to replicate.
* As you mentioned, thin clear pieces are a good use case for this tech, whether vehicle canopies or windshields or building windows. (You can always make parts opaque when you want.)
* If you want anything with undercuts, you'll have to make the part in multiple pieces. And assembling multiple pieces of thin vacuum formed plastic is ... tricky.
Broadly, I would use a 3D printer for almost all small pieces today (obviously not available until pretty recently) and only consider vacuum forming for large pieces or possibly for smoothly curved transparent pieces where printing lines would be a problem.
Wow, I just checked the price on Amazon. $699.oo USD! I think I will pass on Vac Forming for a while. Thanks for trying it out for us.
ruclips.net/video/O790OvRy1rc/видео.html
I know right? A dental vacuum former does the same thing but for a fraction of the price.
You can easily make a "better" one yourself
This one is atrociously expensive. You can make a shitty one that would do a better job than this one for a fraction of a fraction of the cost.
Go garage sale scouting. A cheep space heater and a vacuum cleaner plus some what ever junk you have for a frame and you're an afternoon of expedient engineering away from your own table.
Drops the sheet. ME: VACUUM! VACUUM! COME ON! Whew!
Cool toy, but as you mentioned, little pricey for the home user. I've got a friend in Saskatchewan that uses a bigger homemade rig to form plastic for armor for the medieval fighting we do.
Yeah, that was my thinking as well. It's might be more useful for a cosplayer to make the little bits and bobs on a character's outfit as light weight as possible. Or make smaller pieces of armor or just use a template or small scale and make that over and over to make scale armor.
I don't really see it being all that useful for making table top terrain pieces though.
A couple of decades ago, a few of us made styrene (I think?) armor by making a paper pattern of the armor piece, making the rough cuts from the sheets of material, then, while the person for whom the armor was being made wore two sweatshirts, and the rest welder's gloves or insulated leather gloves heated the material over a gas stove until is got soft, then we all quickly pressed the VERY hot material against the person to form it to a contoured shape. We thought this was very hilarious until one guy's wife came home and made us open the windows. Then we ate pizza and watch the ST:TNG episode where the Enterprise is destroyed. "Cause and Effect".
-
The armor was nice, the episode was better. The pizza was substandard, but we were all poisoned with styrene fumes, so we ate it all (not the armor or the Star Trek)
-
Long story short, a vacuum former (larger than this one) would have helped us quite a bit, and helped avoid a few burns.
A dental vacuum former does the same thing but is a lot cheaper.
Around $120 USD VS $700 USD. The working area is 7X7 inches, but for tabletop props that should be big enough.
I remember getting some vacuum formed airplane model kits back in the 90s, they were so bad they gave me PTSD for the technology :)
Me and a friend built one once for duplicating 3D printed parts as thin shells for use in making super light weight RC airplane parts.
Using a larger one at secondary school over 15 years I made a tub about the size of a medium butter tub with none of these issues. I don't know if its just because you spedd up the footage, but it looks like your slamming the plastic sheet down, try doing it a bit slower to give the plastic time to deform and stretch over the former. It could also be to do with the quality of this vacuum former though. Yoghurt pots and butter tubs are made like this and they don't have the creases.
If you don't want to waste the plastic sheets from failed attempts, put it on a flat surface and heat it up with a hot air gun (a hairdryer my get hot enough) and it will resume its previous shape, just be carful not to heat it to much and melt it completely.
vacu-form is in fact a bit of an art. Learning how and where to add vacuum holes and what parts to add height to to get clean pulls just takes time and practice. I love the windows idea, that is a really great use for it.
I've used Vacuum Form machines related to my work and one of the things that is often a struggle is the webbing (the stringy ridges you mentioned), depending on the shape it can be very hard to get rid of. Likewise the undercut issue you had with the rocks can be a problem. A way around both at once is to add something underneath roughly the same contour your forming and seal the seam. That area of the formed item gets trimmed off anyways so if webbing forms its a non issue and allows you to feather the transitions of rocks with some kind of filler to eliminate the undercut. The sharper the transitions the higher the webbing risks. On the other parts that did not get good definition, your right Vent holes would solve that problem. They dont have to be big usually, just a way for the air to get sucked out. the deeper the pull the more the material wants to stretch so start with a thicker sheet if you can and expect it to get thinner after forming. Great review, I enjoy your channel and I agree with your review. Great break down and assessment!
I really respect the fact you gave an honest, professional review.
From what I can see you need more suction and more heat - vacuum forming is great in certain circumstances. I have used one in making parts for dollhouse miniatures namely trashcans, and kitchen plates etc. And in war-gaming terrain to make armour plates or with patients things like electrical towers. The taller the item you are forming the more heat you need to get the appropriate sag in the material. With the toy panels and the like if there are recesses in the middle that do not connect to the perimeter of the object, they need draft holes drilling through them for the vacuum to work. To make moulds from the rocks just build up the bases with play-doh or similar to eliminate undercuts.
User error, you can use a hard tool with a slightly rounded edge (paint brush handle, plastic butter knife etc) and flatten the ridges down whilst the plastic is being suctioned still.
Usecase: putting together complex shapes for mass production through repeated vacuuforming. Make a cool kitbash terrain piece or building etc, then vacuuform it over and over again, faster and lighter weight than casting and a lot less messy.
For instance, nearly all plastic masks and armor costume pieces mass produced and sold in stores are vacuuformed from clay sculpts, wooden lasts or plastic kitbashes
I used to build bucks for the vacuform. Mostly it was specialized trays for jewelry display cases. Later I made shaped trays for my crafting tools. I would fill the bottom of the trays with latex foam to make them more resilient. My tool box is a thing of beauty.
Honestly making inserts seems like the neatest (albeit kind of boring) use for these machines.
I feel like this could be really useful to make Necron Tombworld tiles
One thing that can help is a hair drier or heat gun - soften the plastic where those ridges are forming.
I built one, oh, around 1983, I think - for making costume armor for a recreation society - large items, low detail, but for the task it worked well.
But it was also designed to take 3 foot sheets of plastic. And fairly rugged - not up to SCA style combat, but good enough for boffa weapons.
About the mid nineties there was a company using one about the size of the one you have for making low detail facades for fantasy terrain - the ones I used were Geigeresque Tyranid terrain.
They also made a 25mm scale version of the big tank from Steve Jackson's game Ogre.
Plenty of people have already made their own, they are fairly common. There's a ton of things you could do with one. Have a few basic containers that you've turned into a prop base, like columns, but only have the one? Make copies! Then you can decorate them. And with some practice making molds is pretty easy.
As for the lines, part of the issue is the strength of the vacuum, which is why some use vacuum pumps to empty a tank and then pull the air very quickly. The rest is mostly due to the shapes being used/too many shapes too close together. For more detail you need vents in the piece.
i used a vacuum former all the time back when i worked in a product design workshop.
couple of tips for you!
-the reason you are getting those ridges running up to your moulds is because you have the plastic too hot. when you see the plastic sagging then its too hot!
-i almost never used a timer for heating the plastic. the best way to get it bang on in my experience is to touch it (wear gloves if you can obviously) if the plastic is bouncy but not slack then it is bang on!
-a tight seal around the plastic for suction is essential. consider maybe modifying your device with some sealant strips if the seal is lacklustre. the vacuum formers i used were big industrial bad boys with lots of suction and big rubber sealant strips.
-strong suction, an airtight seal and even heat is what will give you crispy smooth moulds.
-try to avoid using foams for moulding. they can melt under the heat and you'll either get a bad mould or you'll never get the foam out! if you are going to use foam for organic shapes then best thing is to treat it so it is nice and hard on the outside. sculptamould to seal it for example.
- consider using a non heat reactive mould releaser for your moulds to get them out at the other end. the best thing to help you in the regard is the right TYPE of moulds. you touched on it in your video in terms of under cuts. similarly, perfectly vertical edges can screw you over so try to get a slight taper on anything you put in it.
-the 2 key things these guys are used for is reverse moulds for casting and replicatable, lightweight shapes. for example, these are used a lot for prop making. hollow gun parts for props that can be made in seconds are a very common use for example.
-terrain is your key with this. angular geometric shapes like Necron buildings for example would be perfect!
-styrene is king for these! don't bother with any other type of plastic!
Most helpful comment yet! Thanks
@@BlackMagicCraftOfficial you’re welcome my friend!
Professional Vacumformer. Sealed box hooked to a shopvac, with a heating element. I have worked with one for a couple of years ages ago :). using heat resistant gloves to smooth out the plastic will give you better results. and you are on the right path that air holes will give you better results. the vacuformer is good for grebels and making cosplay armor quickly. Another use is to make wrecked vehicles cheaply.
Yeah, I had a feeling you would feel this way about it when I saw you put the video up.
Vacuum forming sounds fantastic as an idea. But in practise it takes a lot of set up to prepare a object to be formed.
Lots of tiny air holes needed to allow suction for any areas within the piece, lower than its peak. Which is why the tiles and you weren’t fully detailed.
Also you need to account for the bevel at the bottom with flush pieces or undercuts with non flush pieces by packing them off the bed with a raft. So the detail covers the entire part not 95% of it.
It’s a pain, it can do cool things and saved a project for me at uni. But overall it’s not a very versatile tool in a world of 3D printers. And is only as good as the objects you can make without it.
What about some diamond type grating to make fantastic windows using a clear sheet. (Putting a back wash in all the grooves it makes as the lead work)
Keep up with the vacuform. Once you have played with certain geometries and venting on individual pieces it can do some incredible negatives. It excels in stamping out repeatable shapes or taking glued-together objects to make a solid surface. My real objection is that your model is quite small for terrain. Experiment with heat and other plastics to get some unique features. This tool is really useful, but it shines with larger beds.
Have to agree with most of the assessments here. The issue I have with this is that it is just not practical. There are other easier ways to do what we do in nearly every case I can think of to use this for. Possibly if you wanted to make some sort of bas relief wall for a room or something like that and are not skilled in carving (raises hand - "Yes Please") and sculpting....but even that...I just do not see the usefulness of going through the hassle of setting up everything to do this. And I CERTAINLY cannot justify the space required to leave it up. But I appreciate it for what it is and you for reviewing it. Not trying to knock the product or your decision to review it, just don't see it being a useful tool for crafting.
A simple technique mastered by many 12 year old school children here in the UK - when taught Craft Design Technology. You can imagine the amount of laughter when I watched this video.
Congratulations
Adam Savage used to make a lot of space ship models for Star Wars with this tool.
the opaque ones are good for making the base of wall sections, instead of needing modpodge - you can create several copies of a basic tile or terrain section, have a few dozen of them, and then detail them all differently to have variety, without needing a lot of expenditure on the structure the details go on (for example, making a small hill or a wall segment to duplicate, and then adding the colors and details afterwards to make the hills all have different tree layouts, but they all have teh same, easily pathable central section o put minis on) This would be extra useful for making 'before and after' setpieces, such as a winter hillside and its summer version, making sure the hills themselves are identical easily.
creating the bucks (that's how the pieces are called, from what you make the form of) is an form of art for itself
If you are old enough you will remember Bellona vacuum-formed model tanks. I still have a French Somua tank in 1/72nd from the 1970's. A friend of mine did a German A7 from WWI. Today, you'd use a 3D printer.
DUDE!! We used big old vacuum formers back when I was in 7th grade!
I've been binge watching your high school DnD series! It's fantastic to see young people introduced and grow into role players!
Watching other makers using vacuum form machines, Adam Savage, Punished Props, it seems they always help the vacuum along by pressing the plastic down close to the object with their fingers, usually with gloves for heat protection, to help mold the plastic to the tight spots right when it first forms the vacuum
Vacuforming is an art unto itself. To get cleaner lines where you want them, add more (or less, lol) pressure; ie put oblique (toe nail) aspects in the hard detail. Don't take much, 1mm holes around the points where your vac to get clean detail is a good start. The 'flow lines' you get when forming (those annoying areas where the plastic adheres to itself instead of the plug) can be overted with downward pressure to the area of contention before appling vaccume (a damp rag will work for simple molds)
The crafsman did a great video for this same machine
He did. I wish I hadn’t already filmed this when he posted it. His video explained some issues I was having.
The forms you were using could be called male, drawing the styrene down over a form ( buck) . What you need is a female form where styrene is drawn in to the pattern , that way you get the detail . You need to drill small holes ( 1.5 mm ) in to this female form and that will draw down the vacccum . If you use it on the male buck you can use your fingers to help press down the styrene. Again like any moulding you have to watch the undercuts or you will have to cut your bucks out of the mould which as you've seen can cause damage to the styrene. I would recommend the Adam savage tutorials for basic use. The machine has its purposes it's just finding over time what you can use it for . Go to your local plastic supply and get large sheets of styrene , it's called HIPS high impact polystyrene sheet , same stuff as evergreen sheet and what plastic kits are made from at a very good price .
The use that I saw in this video was using it as a cool packaging for figures to sell online like they do with action figures.
A big use of vacuforming is that you can combine multiple material types in your buck without having to worry about them being fully attached, then make the form so you have a lightweight or mold version of the combined shapes. For example, put those half skulls on another shape like the pyramids and then vacuform them together.
I've never used a vac-former but I can see it being good for kitbashing things together into a mold. You know taking some greebles and making an item out of them vac-form it and cast it.
One way to solve the ridges/wrinkles issue is to have a metal sculpting tool to gently press down around the edges of your piece while the vacuum is on and the plastic is still malleable. Another way is simply to have a lip or ridge of extra material around the bottom of your piece. I've used vacuum forming only a couple of times, once for simple plastic sheets, and once for Kydex, which I'd actually like to do more of to make some cosplay armor and for custom sheaths/holsters for blades and firearms.
Styrofoam can't be vac formed as its full of too much air, the machine can't pull a seal on it. As for the rocks they will work but they need to be raised from the bed on some modeling clay. The webbing is mostly a geometry issue but can be helped by having a slope down to the bed rather than a sharp corner.
The beginning of this video is me with any new technology! I tried to play a Nintendo Switch Lite just the other day and I took about 10 photos before I managed to load Tetris...
- corrugated metal panels
- basins for water tiles
- clear plastic for fire effects and lighting
Those "ridges" you mention are called "webbing" and they are a function of the depth of draw and proximity of parts. Too much draw and/or parts too close together does this. If you can, you might not because of the design of that machine, allow the styrene to droop about the same amount as the part is high before shutting off the heat and dropping it onto the platen.
For some bits, you can also get in there with a small rag and coax the styrene into tighter corners. But, yeah, you need to have vent holes in all of the major low areas for the air to get pulled out.
I think prop makers would get more from a vacuum machine, honestly. That said, I have used it for terrain.
The softer the styrene is as it heats the easier it forms. If you flick it with your finger while it's heating and it is close to hello it's ready. If the surface area of the item is large and covers more of the vacuum surface you need to drill small holes to help with suction of the detail. Also if the item is tall predrilling holes in it too.
Usually styrene is sold as "HIPS", high impact polystyrene, if you search for that, you might find it. They are usually sold in very big sheets, but the price is really good compared to the small hobby ones that cost a fortune.
wrong type of use case for this purpose...more geared to model making and practical effects . see adam savage
Could be fun to make some moulds for modular sci-fi corridors and floors, with built-in grid patterns from plastic mesh and other generic textured surfaces. You could probably make a negative of various different textures to use with Green Stuff or other modelling materials, for use with bases etc. Thing to do is use foam board as your overall base-layer because you can use a pin to poke plenty of holes in it for the vacuum to pull the plastic into corners.
Vac formers are great for producing objects with complex compound curves but really come into their own when you have a larger one capable of producing items too large to make easily with 3D printing or other techniques. A useful tool but probably more suited to making props and stuff for cosplay and RC models than for miniature crafting
Couple of years back there was a company that used to sell vaccuformed scenery 'blanks'. Imagine building one straight section of a trench system, vaccuforming that ten times and then adding sanding and flock to the plastic shells. They had a couple of fairly neutral different shapes like gun entrenchments, bunkers and modular rivers iirc.
Don't remember what they were called though.
Probably more useful for wargamers than for roleplaying games.
I so want a vacuum former. Thanks for going through all the different shapes. Nice to know there is one for home use.
You’re right about the holes to draw the air through. Also would a negative mould work better as the detail is held better on the side of the styrene that touches the mould?
With vacuum forming the details are better on the inside, therefore better for moulds.
There is a height limitation at that size machine, as you say those "ridges" are a result of tall things and how the plastic can and can not stretch.
With some work to make a nice original you can knock out stuff like mass amounts of crates super quickly, flock/sand and paint and you can fill a table in a day.
Someone else mentioned that Adam Savage has a good vid on the pros, cons and usage of vacuforming, highly recommended!
First correction vac forming is an at home tech, it’s just always been a diy at home rather than something you buy ready to go. Loads of cos player use them
Try using MDF as the buck and make sure there are no under cuts. MDF allows air to move thru it pretty well. Fun fact MDF is also used at the spoil /sacrificial board on vacuum tables for CNCs because air can still pass thru it
A lot of my issues would have been solved by raising the buck on another layer of material like mdf, for sure.
I see the vacuum formed products more on lightweight RC-models than on tabletop gaming. But you can produce very fast storage trays for transportating miniatures.
I use packs of styrene from Slaters Plastikard, have done since the 60s, I also use their microstrip and microrod quite a lot. You can make similar items by heating a sheet of plasticard under the grill until it goes floppy, laying it over the master and pressing down with a folded towel (or make a piece with a matching hole and pushing that down over the master, I never managed to do that right though). Airfix mag back then often had things like 'build the trainer version of this aircraft' in which you carved a balsa insert and then made the longer canopy using a plunge mould (I still have the scars, never was any good at that) or building some truck and moulding the mudguards round the end of a hot poker (also have scars from that). Back then Bellona Mouldings sold a wide range of vac-formed scenic items, these days a similar but smaller range is available from Amera Mouldings, cheap, sturdy and can be damned handy. The masters take a hammering in vac-forming so they don't last as long as an injection mould, but the end result is cheaper. As the other commentator mentioned an inverted mould provides you with way better results. You can also build a vacuum box, the heating element is inside the box and once the plastic has softened you let the air in to press it down over the mould, too technical for me. Since I retired I fill my free time making up sets of toy soldiers to give away, adding the things you can't buy such as bunkers with removable roofs and loads of terrain etc. The rule of threes means I have to try and make three of some things and a machine might be handy in particular for sci-fi craft (kits are no longer pocket money items and things come and go - try finding the Airfix Orion space shuttle, my preferred transport aircraft, or the Heller Frellon which was the basis for my hover-jet transports, very Jerry Anderson). Having made the parts you then need to develop the skills to use them as kit-parts, there is a lot of trimming and there are some truly arcane techniques used with vac form kits but when the alternatives are nothing or $illy money I'm still tempted and will take a look at the link.
Just realized this thing would be great for damming off bases for resin pours. Put the base with something to form the walls of the dam like a pill bottle with the top cut off. Flip it upside down and vacuuform form it, pull the pill bottle or whatever out and you have a perfect dam that would even catch overflow. Then just tear away
9:06 "In the first age, in the first battle, when the shadows first lengthened, one stood..."
10/10 comment
You can use modeling clay to "pedestal" pieces and get rid of undercuts as well as drop the wrinkles below your piece. VF are really good for making things like airplane canopies, wings, car bodies - mostly modeling stuff. Also good for making quick molds because they can (with the right part) very quickly reproduce a positive into a negative mold with great detail. I think for you (just guessing), there will be some rare but useful applications. I'm thinking mostly making quick molds. But who knows.
The scale modelling hobby sometimes makes use of vacformed canopies for model aircraft as they can be made thinner that way than injection moulding can do. They're usually sold by small companies as upgrades to standard injection moulded kits. I've also seen forum threads about people making their own vacform machines for this purpose.
Some small companies also sell model aircraft kits where the main components are moulded in vacform sheets, with detail parts often being made in white metal or resin. These are typically seem as fairly challenging to build.
to help get rid of the "ridge" lines, you need to put the object on a lifter block that smaller then the base (by about 1/2")of the object(but the same shape as the bottom of the object) so the plastic sheeting can wrap underneath the shape of the object before it touches the vacumn table. this will you a nicer object, and the (ridges) will not be on the object you are forming, but where it doesnt matter, and you can just cut them off. if that makes sense.
The main use i can see for it it would be making jigs for curving styrene and putting angles in ot eliminating the need to glue or fix corners or bend it by hand, also using it to add a texture to the styrene, bricks, stonewall, paneling etc before cutting it
You need to put the piece on a relief base to help pull the styrene down to limit the creases, Adam Savage has a good video on vacuum forming you may want to watch.
I feel like there should be a material that you can vacuum form into a mold that would retain a bit more plasticity once it's been set. Beyond that I feel like there might be some utility in making large texture sheets that you could use to panel the side of a building or something, but the things that sound like they would be useful, also feel like they would be difficult to make a reusable master negative of.
Make a piller for scatter terrain. Cut in half. Then vacuform the parts. Cut out and glue together. Easy to make a lot of repeatable scatter terrain
To correct for undercuts, it’s best to use a sculpting clay like Chavant NSP medium to build a base around your object which will elevate it off of your platform about an eighth of an inch -which will also help with the creases and ridges. Another thing that will be helpful for you is to get a rounded silicone tipped brush and cover that in a piece of old cotton T-shirt, and as you bring the styrene down onto the part use the rounded end of the tool to help burnish and push the plastic down onto the vacuum plate. That will help illuminate a lot of the ridges and creases. Also, instead of relying on the timer to tell you when your plastic is hot, use the plastic as a guide and watch for it to droop significantly. I noticed in the video it didn’t look like your plastic was quite hot enough. That can also cause ridges, and prevent the plastic from reproducing a little finer detail. I think with a little practice you will find that your vacuum former can be a very versatile and useful tool for the type of work that you do.
You could incorporate that plastic 'webbing' the vacuform makes on the edges of the mould when doing far more organic items that could need some added weirdness, similar to those spider cocoons you did a while back.
I would look in to seeing if the suction can be inproved.
Looks like some of the details are not transferring properly because of it... or maybe the seal hasn't been made properly.
Other than that looks like it could be a grate tool to use.
Used a workshop size one when I was younger. They are pretty fiddly, if the piece is too tall it would cause the plastic to fold at the corners. If it has lots of details it need vent holes to allow the vacuum to pull properly. The plastic itself is pretty fragile and if you don’t de-mould properly it just tears itself to shreds.
Prototyping it’s great.
Mould making? Stick to silicone.
i reccomend tested's videos on vacuum-forming, as well as the one where he talks about the large scale blue wifi radio prop, i cant find a link or a name, but, he mentions a lot of tips in that video as the prop was vacuum-formed for the most part, might help.
you can use it to mass produce bits and pieces for terrain, or to make molds though dont try to do too much detail as it often doesnt come out. I think a heat gun might be able to be used to help it form tighter but not 100% on that.
In theatre we use large scale vacuum form machines to produce large panels of bricks quickly. Maybe you can figure out a way to miniaturise that tactic
Thanks for the video. If you are looking for cheap styrene I buy mine as sheets from plastic distributors. You can get a 4x6’ sheets and at a cost far below hobby costs.