During the intro, I'm honestly glad you brought up disabilities and other impairments as a factor. Not a lot of people realize that some players use different tools that make it a bit harder to play harder content just because they need it to play the game. (an example being a quadstick, mouse grips, etc).
I feel the same way. As someone who's legally blind (with some vision), I'm nervous about trying harder content like extremes, savage, and ultimate because they involve a lot of mechanics that rely on quickly reacting to visual cues like party debuffs and the flail mechanic in P1S, with failure to do so often leading to instant death or causing a wipe. I can probably do the harder content with practice, but making it required to become a mentor is absurd.
As a high school teacher, I just want to say that this intro resonates with me 100% not only in regards to this game, but just good teaching overall. I especially love what you have to say about teachers/mentors being able to help folks with different impairments access the content. Great teachers or coaches don't have to be the top-level performers in their field; rather they should be able to help folks with diverse needs and abilities push and challenge themselves so that they can learn to approach problems and challenges on their own. That's exactly how you design all of the content on your channel, and I've always been impressed (and grateful!) for your ability to anticipate what you're listeners might need. So awesome that this community has awesome teachers like you
@@DarkDyllon Because humans are shit as a species. And tbh, mentor roulette is kind of scary, even if I do remember what to do in an extreme from 6 years ago, explaining it to a bunch of screaming children who’ll fuck it up regardless for the duration of the next hour is unavoidable.
A big off topic, but as a Monster Hunter veteran, I still find it's hilarious that the devs (likely unintentionally) kept faithful to the outrageously silly hitboxes some monsters had in the older games at 10:03.
"Knowing and executing on it aren't mutually exclusive" is very true. A friend of mine tend to say that whenever he's learned something in a game, he now has to wire his brain to use it. He has the knowledge, he needs to learn how to excecute it now. It's a very good analogy imo.
my friend is also like that, i understand things real quick and remember them while he hears but then either forgets completely or forgets occasionally. that being said he still forgets to use mediation before fights constantly as monk lol
In my opinion Akh Afah perfectly demonstrates the night and day difference between trying to do extremes with a dedicated static with voice comms and trying to do it with a group of randoms. In every static i've been in, we clear in less than 30 minutes even with half the group being blind. With duty finder or party finder, it's always a crap shoot. Also agree, savages are well beyond the purview of mentorship. I'm under the impression that mentors are more for guiding new players through the basics of the game. Anyone gearing up for savage should already be past that phase. It goes double for ultimates.
Indeed, I'm not a mentor but I've spent some dungeons teaching anyways, more so now that the Xbox players are showing up now. I have seen so many Red sprouts hard casting Veraero/stone, you don't even know.
A good way to make sure you remember how to play a job is to keep doing your rotation at a striking dummy while waiting for queues! I've often spent 10-20 minutes just looping a rotation to drill it into my memory while waiting for queues to pop as a dps! (I also find it quite fun, personally!) Also those Arms Lengths during Leviathan were hilarious!
Yeah, as much as I love raiding, mentors are supposed to be there for newer people that are learning. Most of which will never even touch harder content but might still like to learn how to play or improve. If there was another level of mentor that was specifically like "Raid Mentor" or something then that might be different, but a mentor should be there as someone to help those who want to learn do exactly that, even if it's just how to be a better botanist or unlock new hairstyles. How most mentors actually turn out is besides the point, but I don't think it should ever be locked behind savage/ultimate/etc.
This tbh. If they introduced Raid Mentor, yeah, you need to clear at least one current tier of an expac. x.2 comes out? First tier no longer counts. Ultimate I would still say is too far for a raid mentor but otherwise, actually have a reason to need to raid in terms of mentoring. Would also be useful for alts/people who are just god tier on a single role. Can't give any advice on DPS but you're a Legend tank? That's good to have if you're a good mentor.
When it comes to accessibility I can speak to the problems that come with being color blind considering how many games color code their mechanics. Most games now have tunable color blind settings that help but even then they often end up muddy and hard to read. Accessibility is one of those areas where, as controversial as they are, add-ons actually really help. Of course that brings in the question of whether or not added accessibility is worth all of the other headaches that do come along with add-ons and I ain't here to fix that.
This is why mods aren't a total evil thing. Some mods, some tools, they're needed for some people do interact with the game properly at all. The issue is, accepting the existence of these means you must accept all. This is why I always direct people to continue to give feedback on the forums, no matter what. Tell the devs more about your issues, so we can get proper in-game built tools. Mods are PC only, but console players need the proper tools too.
Gonna push back on the "COWARD!" stuff at 19:30 in the final trash mob stretch in Babil. Multi-pulling to the starting safe areas means a bunch of jobs can make better use of their AOE options and buffs rather than having to hoof it through all those claw-drops. Whether you go for a cross-country sprint, or pull to start, the end result is still the tank gathering all the enemies in a safe area-so may as well use the first one provided. It took me a long time to even realize those pulls were POSSIBLE, and since I've started doing them, I've had nothing but positive feedback from team members for it.
I never even cosidered some of the points you raised in the intro and it genuinely does make me rethink my opinions on what a mentor should have to do to get the crown.
Using that, "Tell me about accessibility!" section to absolutely share my own thoughts as a player with multiple physical disabilities! Because I can o7 One of those things I wish I could offer advice on more is how to deal with playing while having them. While providing advice to every single variation and different condition under the disabled umbrella is *not* something I can do, I tend to give a lot of people advice on how to manage stuff that falls in line with my issues, i.e, I have a Repetitive Strain Injury in my right hand/arm, and I deal with chronic pain. (I have a leg issue too, but that's less important for FFXIV!) Dealing with a lot of these suck. And I've managed to have lot of good talks with people on how to manage pain and how to set things up to be good for playing without making things worse. Talking about how training yourself to stop mashing your next skill you wanna press before it comes up again can help prevent pain from rapidly pressing too much, giving people advice with setup like on if an MMO mouse will be good for them, or making Shift and Alt my modifiers instead of using Shift and Control so I don't press it with my pinky finger and exaggerate my pain, making my most pressed buttons (1-2-3, healer damage spell, etc) all buttons I can easily press with both my MMO mouse and left hand so I can give myself a break and reduce the strain of rapid pressing on one hand, using macros, settings to disable for less motion blur, the list goes on. ... Are most people gone? Cool, also the pl*gins that help reduce input needed (making combos like how they are in pvp, same button press), give me check ins with a little sound to remind me to posture check and stretch that I can freely customize to trigger only outside of combat, that kind of thing. Minus the last bit, I genuinely do wanna help people with that kinda thing, or even just be someone who can be relaxed and supportive in game. I find people are especially hostile to disabled people in game, and people are incredibly quick to dismissing questions or raised concerns (like the Nier raids or recent Myths of the Realm moments still not having their photosensitivity issues fixed) with "If you can't handle it, stop playing!" Which is so annoyingly common these days it infuriates me. And funnily enough, that text add on about 'blind' being thought of as black and white and only no vision made me think about how a lot of people think the same about wheelchair users too. People seem to not think that if they are capable of walking at all, no matter for how long, they no longer need it or are 'faking'. Lmao.
Your intro was spot on. A good mentor can offer so much more for new players than just rotation or mechanic advice. Well 14 is a very casual friendly MMO that does not in anyway mean it holds your hand through every system and offer adequate explanations for everything. Love this series wesk.
13:40 I will say, if someone knows what they're doing and have taken charge of a situation, I will typically stay silent if what they're saying is accurate. My thinking is having multiple people explaining stuff can make too much "noise".
Thank you so much for that intro. For the longest time, I’ve tried to put into words why clearing a single fight (ie ultimate) would not make a good requirement for mentors. Also for mentioning people with inpairments and how some people simply can’t raid - and that it doesn’t make them bad players. I know many people like this, and some of them genuinely are amazing players. I’m also one of those souls, that whilst I can clear savage (I have done some) I simply cannot because I lack the time. But for some reasons good = raider rather than good = good player. I’ll be interested to see what you say on trade mentor, as it’s definitely the easier of the two mentorship’s to achieve.
I always appreciate watching you struggle with black mage. I know it's not your most comfortable job so I don't expect to see it a lot, but I love to see it when you do.
youve talked about it before of everyone seeing a mentor die to something and then people laugh at the mentor for not being perfect, but they do that for legends as well. why would somebody think that you must be one to be the other and then also be nothing but toxic towards the mentors for being human?? guys we are just ordinary people who have happened to put a lot of hours into the game. theres no requirement of perfection for the stupid little crown! also, shouting out the idea of playing every job at least once during this journey is a great idea. a lot of mentors will queue only as summoner, red mage, or healers, to make sure they can carry as much responsibility as possible with a rez on demand. the best mentors can do even better, they can COMMUNICATE! they can teach the sprouts how to be the best player they can be! and the duties will end with victory not because one try-hard pulled everyone across the finish line by their balls, but because the best players made sure this team cleared with skill and knowledge, not luck.
This channel has good insight but tbh the reason I am subbed is because its hilarious hearing a northeast accent dude talk about something as nerdy as ffxiv.
I wear my crown all the time and mostly just... Try to help people. If I'm thinking something unhelpful (cause I'm still a person), I'm not typing it in chat. I don't have a legend title, never did any ultimates, haven't cleared an entire savage tier yet (not counting unsynced of course). Those as requirements would be completely nuts.
God, it feels nice to see someone trying to uptime the second Babil boss, it's my fave thing to mess up but I rarely see someone even try to pull it off in my runs unless I'm with my friends
14:27 That attempted Rescue is so funny. Anyway, I wanted to say I really appreciate your guides. I just got my first character to level 50 and I'm excited to play on!
As someone who is closing in on her Burger King status, I really appreciate your talk in the beginning. I haven't done harder content and have noted that SE doesn't *require* harder content for mentors. It just requires you to put in time and be vaguely well-rounded as a player to help those players who are - less familiar -. You are absolutely there for onboarding and if you can teach MORE when you have the knowledge? Great. There are other mentors who will be way more knowledgeable than I am about a lot of things, and I absolutely defer to their experience (as long as it is helpful and good information). I make mistakes all the time, but I like to help! I can know stuff, but I'll be certain to fat-finger my damn buttons often enough, LOL. I also REALLY appreciate your commentary on blindness and accessibility. I think people need to be far more aware about excluding those with different impairments and abilities as those players can be hugely helpful and make the community a better place.
OOF (~10:10 mark) - I actually had a REGULAR Raid Roulette drop me and a friend in Eyes of the Creator (A9). There were 2+ first-timers in there, so we had some hiccups and wipes. Explained how the batteries and ads worked (need to charge the ads up, then bring them to a melting quadrant and kill them there so they get melted down and not absorbed by the boss). It took a few more pulls, but we got that part down. Then we got to the Full Metal Faust ad, and the off tank would not listen about ONLY moving it into a melting quadrant once it was close to dying. So we wiped a few more times to the insta-kill burned-alive Faust, and the duty ended up Vote Abandoned. Super rare occurrence, that. I can count on one hand how many Vote Abandons I've actually seen in my years playing, and the number that are actually voted through is even smaller.
Thank you for mentioning accessibility, I also have a mild visual impairment and mild dexterity issues. I have the HUD bigger so I can see. I sometimes have problems moving out of orange splodges on the ground because they are too fast. I find white mage easiest to play. Lots of ways to keep myself alive as well as the party.
So I loved this statement you made! Mentors make mistakes, they aren’t perfect players! Hell been on the game for a hot moment and still learn new things here and there, I.e. didn’t know about achievement fates. Everyone still can learn something new and everyone can make mistakes. But for 99% Halicarnassus NN have been wonderful
19:49 I don't think I've ever survived a trailing AoE like that myself, I keep accidentally doubling back on myself or hit someone else with them and then THEY die.
for that one in particular, you can start on east or west side of the arena, and then just go straight across to the opposite side. The distance it follows you is short enough it won't get you, and as long as you don't run directly through everyone else, you shouldn't hit them.
I find the key is to run forward and keep running, never double back or you'll get deleted. If you need to turn, turn 90 degrees. Just keep running until it resolves.
Like others in the comments I want to thank you for talking about impairments. Impairments/disabilities come in all kind of shapes and forms, some of which we may be unfamiliar with too. Hopefully by adressing this people will also further think about the requirements for mentor roulette. Personally it would be upsetting if I were excluded from mentor roulette because I haven't been able to clear savage/ultimates because of my impairment. For me it's already frustrating enough that I currently cannot do that content (surely it's for others like that as well)
@18:35 Learned something new, was always jumping back on the pad at about 5 stacks, nice to know I can just do it once now XD. That Tower of Babil final stretch I'll just pull the packs normally, but atleast 50% of the time on Elemental, either a healer, or ranged will tag the mobs down the bottom forcing me to plant early :|
Chain pulling is going from group to group without finishing them off. You so pull first set of enemies, get them to 25%, run off to the next group instead of first finishing the job. Finish your pull, with little to no exceptions. Go for the multi pull immediately, or just stay still.
@@WeskAlber I'm guilty of chain pulling, but to me it felt safer than wall to wall pulls, yet faster than "game designed" pulls. I can't see why it would be such a certain "don't do it".
Knowing and executing on job mechanics is honestly two completely different things, yeah. I know how Ninja works but actually playing it is a nightmare for me, meanwhile playing Black Mage is actually pretty fun to execute when your procs and stuff line up just right for movement or such
I feel like most people suggesting savages, let alone ultimates as a requirement for mentorship have ZERO clue what clearing those actually entail as far as time commitment, especially if you don't have a static.. we're talking weeks (if not more) of progging, not hours
And it's almost always super old extremes too. I wish extremes were far away from mentor roulette tbh. I had Ravana Ex in a mentor roulette once. I do not remember the fight unsynced at all, so I died. They had apparently been attempting it repeatedly for some time so I made a suggestion in the chat that they might have better luck putting up a group in PF. They said it took too long and called me a fake ass mentor, all because I was unprepared for a completely random extreme that's years old.
I was discussing this recently, but the actual requirements to be a mentor are obviously garbage, but no one seems to have a clear consensus on what they actually should be. The idea I liked most was a soft application process to make sure people are trying to be a mentor for the right reasons, and having to maintain it via occasional mentor roulettes. The issue is that it feels very job like, but the base problem is one with no clear right answer.
yeah, unfortunately i dont think there IS a right answer. its "how do we get in all the people who want to be mentors, while weeding out people that just want to flex", and there isnt really a way to do that. i think series like this are a good way to do it, to just actively make people want to be actual mentors through seeing someone else do it.
This week was crazy I do not know what it was but normally I get about like 1 ex for every 10, but this week it was 1 for every 3-4. One time i got an ex three times in a row. Was really fun to tank shiva with 11 damage up as a sge lol. Also feel stupid for not realizing its better to not stack at all for the great hunt ex. Your intro makes me think also about how I teach savage fights and even though I have cleared ultimates, I am still average at best at teaching compared to other colleagues who have been teaching longer yet have never set foot in an ultimate.
I thought it was funny because I never thought I'd be to a point in this game where I'm nearly at the requirements for mentor. I'm 200 coms away, and I never thought to check until I saw your intro about the requirements. I might have to try out this mentor grind. The requirements are way too lax for someone who don't play the game even hardly, and I feel like this thing needs to be readjusted requirements myself. I'm to this point just because I'm lvling two classes. I don't have Gladiator unlocked either, I think I'm missing one other class, and I don't have most of the DPS roles leveled. I only play casters and range DPS, with MNK and DRG being my only two melee DPS classes. At some point there, I feel like something there doesn't add up for the requirements. Maybe an expert, queue in for only savage or Unreal content at sync item level. Mainly basing this off the expert block from PSO2. Where only people who cleared certain content can clear. Then have the mentor roulette as a tutor/student roulette where new/returning players can get into. This covers everything minus Unreal, Savage, and Ultimates; I feel like that Extremes are debatable.
Regarding the intro. I personally don't go into harder content (savage contet) due to my relatively bad internet. And seeing that even the tiniest of delays or doing something out of time can kill you and basically ruining the run. I preffer to avoid it in order to don't disrupt the fun for everyone ;w;
Just watching the intro, maybe the Battle Mentor requirements should be a range of options? Like, a minimum of X duty roulettes completed, Y commendations, one of each role at 90 with all quests complete, and then one of 'current expansion Savage tier completion', 'current expansion Ultimate completion', 'all current expansion Extremes completions', or 'X more duty roulettes completed', or something? Something where doing harder content shortcuts the requirements, but you don't *have* to do the harder content, you can grind it out on roulettes instead if you prefer.
Someone else mentioned there being a raid mentor, and yeah if we had that, that could be useful. Wouldn't really affect things though, since like I said, being able to teach someone is its own issue.
I think combat mentor requirements could be a little bit less lenient, specifically in only needing to level 1 of each role to 90. Since as of Endwalker, you can get Tank to 90 and pick up a healer and DPS starting off at 70 in Sage and Reaper. Or simply level Scholar to 90 and pick up Gunbreaker at 60. You're just not going to pick up enough knowledge that way. I would suggest that if you want mentor, you should have each job leveled to 50 at minimum on top of each role at 90. This would give you at least the basic Idea of what each job wants to do through personal experience and a pretty solid foundation of ARR content to guide sprouts. Might as well make trade mentor the same, one of each at 90 with the rest at least at 50. Which odds are if you're leveling crafters and gatherers you're leveling them across the board regardless
I was curious if you had any thoughts on the Mentor requirements allowing for unsynced clears to meet the requirements- the idea of requiring Savage and Ultimates seems very silly, but it does strike me as also silly that me 2-shotting most ARR Extreme primals as a level 90 has qualified me to "mentor" people on the synced versions of those fights.
On the mentor thing, I mostly agree with your takes. I agree that being an active raider isn't necessarily indicative of skill, but I would argue that it is correlated. I've been in savage raids where players did not know how to do a rotation, and they were swiftly booted. However, I would make the distinction that you can't say that you're skilled at the combat portion of the game if you've never raided period, savage or not. There has to be a cutoff line somewhere, otherwise one could make the argument that completing Sastasha for the first time makes you good at the game, and no one would take that argument seriously. The cutoff in my opinion is someone who has never done a raid period. Hard agree that one should not necessarily have to be a raider at all to be a mentor. One can be knowledgeable about the game without having done the hardest content.
Edit: reading this back it comes across as not recognizing you said you agreed. I got off the topic of skill way too fast. Lemme clarify, what I meant was the point of: I disagree that it does anything more than "prove" you are good and it doesn't even matter if you're "good" anyway so long as you're not being a detriment/ass. Proof of being good is not required to actually be good. But that's just going from one extreme to another. Saying Savage means anything is too far expecting too much, but so does saying Sastasha means anything is too little. It's a pure fact that plenty of good players exist without doing Savage, but nor do they NEED to be good. If they're being helpful, that's all it needs to be. Can a skilled player do MORE than a knowledgeable player? No. No they can't. They can do DIFFERENT things to be helpful. A skilled player is not inherently knowledgeable, nor is that enough to be a mentor either. Someone even in these comments said "yeah, I'm a quad legend but I couldn't teach if I tried." Teaching is an entirely different skill. Being skilled does not mean you can teach. Being knowledgeable doesn't mean you can teach. But regardless of any of that, the reality of mentoring usually boils down to the "obvious" stuff. You wanna know how many times I've answered "press B" to a question? A LOT! Because novice gatherers either have them off or skip the Active Help that tells them that the Log (now quite literally) tells them where to find anything they need until Legendary nodes. Simple stuff like that is the main bread and butter of mentoring. It's a HUGE game even as far as battle content goes. And so we need a variety of different people.
@@WeskAlber Fair. I had written out 5 paragraphs addressing your points, which was quite fun, but in the end I concluded that my standard might be too high and being colored by my own experience of first learning the game. As you say, the majority of the advice you give out is essentially the basics of the game. I didn't use the Novice Network when I first started playing as I was able to either figure things out myself, or was good enough at Google-fu to find other people that had the answers to more complex stuff like job rotations. Ah well, I concede to your points. Thanks for the discussion! I haven't had a good one that made me type out an essay at 5am in a long time lol
The fundamental issue with mentorship, is that the skills and knowledge needed to be able to teach new players and answer questions is something thats basically impossible to put a game mechanic barrier behind. The battle mentor conditions being basically "play the game a lot" is on the right lines. I feel like in theory an in game quiz could be a considerable solution but ego mentors who just want the crown would just look up the answers. I feel like there should be a better in game explanation of what is expected of a mentor if anything.
@@iantaakalla8180Not quite, the exact conditions as wesk says in the video, are 1500 commendations and to have done the role quests for at least one dps, tnak and healer, the comms takes a while to get, I got them when in shb I only had a couple more jobs to have levelled to 80 (I started in shb) but its not like, insane dedication.
What I thought about being a mentor is someone who can guide and perform consistently through normal contents. So my opinion would be like this: Yeah, remove EX from mentor. Late coming players who dedicated their time playing normal content as daily basis are there and they have lots of knowledge enough to teach people. And believe it or not, they have zero knowledge of EX prior to what they start playing. I started playing where EW was about to be released, so all EX from 2.0 to 5.5, don't have any of that knowledge. But commendation requirement is stupid, like everyone said, it could be someone who played thousand runs of Sastasha and played other contents only once. What I suggested would be - Having every role at least 1 job at max level - Played all Dungeons, Trials, Normal Raids, and Alliance for a certain number of it (like 20 each, 50 each or 100 each, or something) - Having Leveling, Trial, 50/60/70/80/90, Normal Raid, and Alliance Roulette for certain number. Maybe not the best filter but at least, we get someone who actually "know" the content and also better filter than commendation counts.
I'm registered blind went to a blind boarding school so no you don't have to be totally blind, I use to raid in WOW honestly just not that into it any more just happy to watch others
At 15:51 where did you see the 13 minutes on your screen? Edit: I looked at the video on pc then saw it. In the Duty Ready window where you have the options "Commence" "Wait" or "Withdraw", it showed Time Elapsed 13m in yellow text in the middle of the window. It was hard for me to see on mobile.
Hi Wesk, will you be my friend? Can I play this game with you? I love running dungeons. =) I truly value and respect your disposition on these topics and think you are doing great work.
Im with you in that there is a lot more to being a mentor than just being able to clear high end content. There is a different skill set required for savage and ultimates, one that does need to be practiced and cultivated. You dont need that to know how to sneak past enemies in Qarn or focus on a specific enemy first in sastasha hard. You dont need to know how to savage raid in order to guide someone though when to use their aoes on mobs vs single targets. Or to pull packs out of tornados in neverreap. Mentor isnt having a phd in the game, its having a little more experience in the game than someone else, and being willing to share that information. What purose would there be in forcing that? Ps. As far as Im aware in Babil you dont have to worry about dancing off the pad when mini'd, i think your damage stays the same. What the risk is might be staying that way after and taking extra damage. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong!
@@WeskAlber huh. My own testing had not shown a difference but in this case I'll trust your judgment especially since it double checking to try and fact check myself The only evidence I can find is that the debuff has that deficit. Learned two things today... I thought breathless would take you out after five counts
That's why I read the tooltip on Breathless, I forgot how many stacks you could handle. Try reading the Mini tooltip next time you're in there. I'm pretty sure it reduces damage. But maybe this one doesn't, weirdly.
@@WeskAlber I will make note to do so next time I'm in there. A quick look at one of the wiki sites backs you up on mini without addendum, where breathless has either a 10 count or an 8 count depending on where you are. I think my caution of 5 count is based off of tsukuyomi.
Salty people want mentors to do harder content because then the mentor has "proven they're good at the game" because of the "mentor bad" stigma. As someone who does savage, I hard disagree, most savage raiders can't read, have no patience and will probably still do equally as bad anyways. Savage raiders are not good, we just have more time and less sanity. I say Mentors could possibly have to maintain completing extremes (since they'll be mentor roulette next expansion anyways), wouldn't be the most unreasonable ask, but it would still not be a good idea. Mentor is a state of mind, you have to be willing to teach. But being taught is also a skill and with some people you'd probably have better luck teaching a rock to do the job instead. If people don't want to learn, but expect so much of mentors, then what you want isn't a mentor, it's someone to hard carry you, and that's a you issue.
See, I don't even like Extremes being in the roulette. Because I sure as hell don't remember every nuance involved in Mog EX for things to go smoothly. Ravana I remember most of but fuck if I could do the prey passes toward the end. (DPS is so high you probably never see them though) Generally, I'm better at remembering mechanics of everything I've done more than most. Expecting mentors to not only remember every normal duty but ALSO every EX? That's so much info it is genuinely unreasonable.
@@WeskAlber Honestly they should remove the experts from mentor roulette but, if they're going to keep them in, then I can at least, almost understand it. I'm not saying I agree with needing to do experts. I honestly wish SE utilised mentors properly, they're a badly implemented attempt to get players to help each other out and more often than not they just become the target of mostly unwarranted abuse. Issue is, as players it's fairly obvious we can't agree on what we want mentors to be, so, SE should step in for DT and either give mentors a specific place that better suits their actual purpose, or, do away with mentor and let the community support itself?
@@WeskAlber That just feels like in game global chat when I used it. There were no novices there, just vets talking inapropriate conversations so I left. I would much rather send a sprout to the ff14 reddit or google before the novice network... If they're going to have it can they at least have a GM or 2 moderating it
Depends on the server, and that's why the report function exists. Novices aren't always talking either. They might be in scenes or etc. Even when a few months ago NN was CAPPED at the full 412 Novices that could join at one time, I would say no more than 20 were speaking.
Honestly ive had issues with dps pulling the boss while im tank and still getting used to tank and it kinda just annoys me like please 5 extra seconds to make sure everyone is ready wont kill you
i was so close to leaving my alexander raid last night lmao, i stayed because theyre so fast but theyre so borrringgggg edit: just got to the leviathan fight, cracked up at the rescue attempt
Ultimate is mentor requirement? An alpha legend mentor off tank wiped the party twice in in A9N. N as in Normal. kwab. And he wouldn't listen to an advice from a sprout, me, sometimes I RP as a sprout. I complimented his legend and left. Anyway, why do you want savage and ultimate as requirement when the hardest content is just level sync extremes? If you want a requirement, it would be to clear all the content level sync.
17:25 lot of people are going for TOP bis and lapis manalis is where its at 🔥🔥 (i am deathly tired of it i wanna listen to the silly loporitt dungeon music again)
Normal dungeons are very different from Savage and Ultimate in the first place... they require very different skillsets. I've seen people with Legends titles playing sub-optimally or even worse, like absolute dumbasses, in normal dungeons.
Going from group to group without finishing them off. You so pull first set of enemies, get them to 25%, run off to the next group instead of first finishing the job. Finish your pull, with little to no exceptions. Go for the multi pull immediately, or just stay still.
@@NekuraCa yeah no with how this game works, it's just not nearly that effective. Like even ignoring cooldowns and healing... Black mage. Just, black mage.
I agree with you that the combat mentor requirements are mostly fine, HOWEVER, I also think the Mentor Roulette unlock should have different requirements from it. As it stands, you just need to have all normal and past EX content cleared to enter, but that doesn't mean you cleared synced and therefore leads to what you saw in Shiva EX, mentors who have absolutely no clue about how to do a fight they signed up to help with because they cleared it unsynced and very overleveled. We need a better way to determine if those players are ready to teach said fights. My original idea was to have them face a "Mentor Trial" before unlocking Mentor Roulette to certify they can actually teach in EX instances and properly perform their jobs in said scenario, but I don't know how feasible that would be from SE's perspective. You'd still be a combat mentor without that roulette, mind you, so people like your healer friend could absolutely still have the crown and teach sprouts in the NN, it would just make sure that if you sign up for a roulette that can land you in EX content, you can actually clear it.
I say this as someone who HAS cleared all these fights synced: fuck EXs being in the roulette. I have so many horror stories about this shitty ass EX all from sprouts who made doing EX hell. There's a reason I called it "my nemesis" this episode. There's a reason I said I'd NEVER cleared Ramuh in Mentor roulette, despite the many times I'd run into it. Even if I remember it, even if I know how to guide the group, it doesn't mean the group cares about listening, or has the ability to even clear. There is also no way to do a teaching certification without a person looking over the details manually. But then also how do you test for like 40 EX trials that are all different? At this point I probably can't clear Mog EX without pulling up a guide because the fight is so old and I do not remember it. But I cleared it synced, *8 years ago* when I started playing. I meet any requirement people can throw at me. Cleared TOP on-patch, clear savage within a few weeks even in PF, clear every duty synced. I'm old enough to hit that with even the further caveat that you have to clear them on expansion. I'm old enough to be an ARR player. And I'm old enough to not remember key mechanics required to fight. See also, the Garuda fight. I had to ask which add I tank. I remembered I needed to tank ONE of them, but I remembered nothing of which one I needed. Mog, I don't remember how the tanks work beyond "take king and two tank mogs." I don't remember priority beyond BLM is 1, WHM is 2. But usually a 3 was also marked. The Bard, maybe? Coulda been the thief though! Even within that there are mechanics like Moogle-go-Round that 1 shots anyone got in it I don't remember how to solve. I knew these mechanics. I don't anymore. Even if these people did clear these fights synced, if they didn't do it in DF with a random group of people who might also have no idea rather than the normal of like PF, the experience is 100%, entirely different. And like, obviously the people who have impairments aren't going to be doing Mentor Roulette. if someone can barely handle dungeons, they aren't going to make it to the unlock, let alone ever try to queue it.
@@WeskAlberFrom what I've heard around several times, EXs being in Mentor Roulette is apparently a thing because JP uses DF to clear those fights rather than PF. Now, I have no way to personally confirm nor deny this, since I'm not a JP player nor am I gonna boost a character there just to check, but assuming this is true, it would make sense why they're in the roulette since SE has always catered towards JP players. That's why I suggested making some sort of Mentor Roulette-specific trial before you can run it, since as it is now, if they don't want to remove EX from the queu (which I agree with you, I'd rather not have EXs there) they need to at least ensure the average player who uses that roulette should be able to clear whatever they're thrown into (A.K.A. not be dead weight). As for how to do this, I don't know, maybe 3 mini-trials (one per role), to see if you can handle harder role-specific stuff you could get in Mentor Roulette. Healers could have something like a mini-Shinryu EX, having to DPS while healing a tank and an add, for example. They could steal some stuff from the Masked Carnivale and do a series of tests instead. That job I leave to the devs and Mr Ozma, who are way more talented than me at coming up with encounters. Of course, just like you've experiences first hand, some groups are doomed to fail from the start due to both sprouts not listening and other mentors who don't give a damn. I have cleared Ramuh EX in Mentor Roulette a handful of times, but I've failed it way more. I had to spend around 45 minutes teaching a group who didn't listen at first how to do Ifrit EX a few weeks ago. We cleared, even if it drained my sanity for the rest of the day. The difference between us and a lot of people who join Mentor Roulette just for the Astrope is that, even if we don't fully remember an encounter, we can probably do a quick read on the wiki and go "aha, I remember now!" and be able to at least teach the basics of a fight. I may not remember exactly how Mog EX works either, but I remember that you need to lower all the moogles evenly so they damage the king more when he tries to heal them, for example, so a quick glance at the wiki could fill in the voids. I'm sure most of us who actually want to help do this whenever we don't remember a specific EX we get thrown into. My point is, if they want to keep the EX duties in the roulette, then Mentor Roulette needs a higher barrier of entry to ensure mentors can actually help with them (hopefully that would also reduce the amount of mentors who insta-bail the moment they see an EX). If they want to remove the EXs from it, then it's fine as it is.
"Legally blind" is such a weird term. Isn't it just a bad eyesight? Thing that glasses help with. Lots of my friends wear glasses and I never considered them "blind", even if they can only see shapes without glasses.
It's been 10 minutes. You didn't do all that much. Like most things, sight is a spectrum and has multiple axis. Field of vision, etc etc. When people talk about blindness, they almost never mean Color Blind, because that's in itself is so varied it needs its own section of discussion. It's so all over that you can legally get a pilot's license but be banned from driving. "Just bad eyesight" is just plain ignorance at that point.
Well, yeah. I only googled it for a bit because several opened articles said the same stuff. 20/200 and fov. Didn't see mention of colour blindness, but makes sense.
Actualy there is another requirements for a player who want to be a mentor. You also need all the EX battles. You didnt see this reqquirementt cause you already have them due you run harder content cause you like it.
You do not need to clear any EX to be a mentor. You are thinking the requirements for Mentor Roulette, which still isn't every EX. Current expansion EX don't need to be cleared. But ALL duties in mentor need to be cleared.
I really don't see the point of requiring Savage or Ultimate for Mentorship when Sprouts are likely going to be leaving Novice Network long before they are in a position to start raiding themselves, Hell, I felt that whenever my time as a sprout or as a Returner is over, I was usually still struggling with various things even OUTSIDE the purview of Extremes/Savage/Ultimate, like once my sprout status went away I couldn't easily ask questions about say a job or role I am very unfamilliar with. for example, dungeons are currently a big struggle for me as I learn tank, despite me (trying to and still struggling) to do harder content on healer. To the point I feel like while i do agree there needs to be some change to the mentor requirements, if we're going to have more "strict" Mentor requirements, there's little to no point to that when sprouts/returner's time in NN is so limited. Eventually the system cuts them loose and they have to either figure things out on their own or turn to external sources of learning now. I almost feel like if there is some change to Mentor Requirements, it would have to come with some changes to sprout/returner status, I'd love if a player could elect to remain a sprout if they still feel like they need guidance/the ability to speak with Mentors rather than being cut loose and going "okay, just go watch guides about openers and go read your job resources page on The Balance a billion times, good luck!" Nevermind that a lot of Job guides are made the Savage/Ultimate as the initial assumption and that's going to be hard to understand without the context of how raiding works irt raid buffs and potions and all of that. If someone is still learning how to big pull without dying on gunbreaker and needs to learn how to pull and cooldown properly, telling them to read The Balance is like telling someone who's never ridden a bike to enter the Tour de France.
My job as a mentor is 90% googling shit for answers to questions asked and 10% explaining shit during a dungeon.
During the intro, I'm honestly glad you brought up disabilities and other impairments as a factor. Not a lot of people realize that some players use different tools that make it a bit harder to play harder content just because they need it to play the game. (an example being a quadstick, mouse grips, etc).
I feel the same way. As someone who's legally blind (with some vision), I'm nervous about trying harder content like extremes, savage, and ultimate because they involve a lot of mechanics that rely on quickly reacting to visual cues like party debuffs and the flail mechanic in P1S, with failure to do so often leading to instant death or causing a wipe.
I can probably do the harder content with practice, but making it required to become a mentor is absurd.
As a high school teacher, I just want to say that this intro resonates with me 100% not only in regards to this game, but just good teaching overall. I especially love what you have to say about teachers/mentors being able to help folks with different impairments access the content. Great teachers or coaches don't have to be the top-level performers in their field; rather they should be able to help folks with diverse needs and abilities push and challenge themselves so that they can learn to approach problems and challenges on their own. That's exactly how you design all of the content on your channel, and I've always been impressed (and grateful!) for your ability to anticipate what you're listeners might need. So awesome that this community has awesome teachers like you
Thinking you need to clear savage, much less ultimate, to be a mentor is wild.
time to make a new mentor role, ULTIMATE MENTOR!
@@red5robb1I wouldn’t put it past the community to eventually bully Yoshi-P into adding this
Indeed. Mentor was created to teach beginning players QoL knowledge. Not to carry them through savage. There’s no point in making that a requirement.
@@DarkDyllon Because humans are shit as a species.
And tbh, mentor roulette is kind of scary, even if I do remember what to do in an extreme from 6 years ago, explaining it to a bunch of screaming children who’ll fuck it up regardless for the duration of the next hour is unavoidable.
A big off topic, but as a Monster Hunter veteran, I still find it's hilarious that the devs (likely unintentionally) kept faithful to the outrageously silly hitboxes some monsters had in the older games at 10:03.
Not off topic at all! The intros are only part of the video!
"Knowing and executing on it aren't mutually exclusive" is very true. A friend of mine tend to say that whenever he's learned something in a game, he now has to wire his brain to use it. He has the knowledge, he needs to learn how to excecute it now. It's a very good analogy imo.
my friend is also like that, i understand things real quick and remember them while he hears but then either forgets completely or forgets occasionally.
that being said he still forgets to use mediation before fights constantly as monk lol
In my opinion Akh Afah perfectly demonstrates the night and day difference between trying to do extremes with a dedicated static with voice comms and trying to do it with a group of randoms. In every static i've been in, we clear in less than 30 minutes even with half the group being blind. With duty finder or party finder, it's always a crap shoot.
Also agree, savages are well beyond the purview of mentorship. I'm under the impression that mentors are more for guiding new players through the basics of the game. Anyone gearing up for savage should already be past that phase. It goes double for ultimates.
Really good points made in the intro! The willingness and ability to teach is critical.
Indeed, I'm not a mentor but I've spent some dungeons teaching anyways, more so now that the Xbox players are showing up now. I have seen so many Red sprouts hard casting Veraero/stone, you don't even know.
A good way to make sure you remember how to play a job is to keep doing your rotation at a striking dummy while waiting for queues! I've often spent 10-20 minutes just looping a rotation to drill it into my memory while waiting for queues to pop as a dps! (I also find it quite fun, personally!)
Also those Arms Lengths during Leviathan were hilarious!
Yeah, as much as I love raiding, mentors are supposed to be there for newer people that are learning. Most of which will never even touch harder content but might still like to learn how to play or improve. If there was another level of mentor that was specifically like "Raid Mentor" or something then that might be different, but a mentor should be there as someone to help those who want to learn do exactly that, even if it's just how to be a better botanist or unlock new hairstyles. How most mentors actually turn out is besides the point, but I don't think it should ever be locked behind savage/ultimate/etc.
This tbh. If they introduced Raid Mentor, yeah, you need to clear at least one current tier of an expac. x.2 comes out? First tier no longer counts. Ultimate I would still say is too far for a raid mentor but otherwise, actually have a reason to need to raid in terms of mentoring.
Would also be useful for alts/people who are just god tier on a single role. Can't give any advice on DPS but you're a Legend tank? That's good to have if you're a good mentor.
When it comes to accessibility I can speak to the problems that come with being color blind considering how many games color code their mechanics. Most games now have tunable color blind settings that help but even then they often end up muddy and hard to read.
Accessibility is one of those areas where, as controversial as they are, add-ons actually really help. Of course that brings in the question of whether or not added accessibility is worth all of the other headaches that do come along with add-ons and I ain't here to fix that.
This is why mods aren't a total evil thing. Some mods, some tools, they're needed for some people do interact with the game properly at all. The issue is, accepting the existence of these means you must accept all. This is why I always direct people to continue to give feedback on the forums, no matter what. Tell the devs more about your issues, so we can get proper in-game built tools.
Mods are PC only, but console players need the proper tools too.
That genuine laugh at Leviathan caught me off guard lmao
Look that was fucking hilarious to watch. I ran over just in time to see them get launched.
@@WeskAlberit does get much funnier on rewatches
Gonna push back on the "COWARD!" stuff at 19:30 in the final trash mob stretch in Babil. Multi-pulling to the starting safe areas means a bunch of jobs can make better use of their AOE options and buffs rather than having to hoof it through all those claw-drops. Whether you go for a cross-country sprint, or pull to start, the end result is still the tank gathering all the enemies in a safe area-so may as well use the first one provided. It took me a long time to even realize those pulls were POSSIBLE, and since I've started doing them, I've had nothing but positive feedback from team members for it.
I never even cosidered some of the points you raised in the intro and it genuinely does make me rethink my opinions on what a mentor should have to do to get the crown.
Using that, "Tell me about accessibility!" section to absolutely share my own thoughts as a player with multiple physical disabilities! Because I can o7
One of those things I wish I could offer advice on more is how to deal with playing while having them. While providing advice to every single variation and different condition under the disabled umbrella is *not* something I can do, I tend to give a lot of people advice on how to manage stuff that falls in line with my issues, i.e, I have a Repetitive Strain Injury in my right hand/arm, and I deal with chronic pain. (I have a leg issue too, but that's less important for FFXIV!)
Dealing with a lot of these suck. And I've managed to have lot of good talks with people on how to manage pain and how to set things up to be good for playing without making things worse. Talking about how training yourself to stop mashing your next skill you wanna press before it comes up again can help prevent pain from rapidly pressing too much, giving people advice with setup like on if an MMO mouse will be good for them, or making Shift and Alt my modifiers instead of using Shift and Control so I don't press it with my pinky finger and exaggerate my pain, making my most pressed buttons (1-2-3, healer damage spell, etc) all buttons I can easily press with both my MMO mouse and left hand so I can give myself a break and reduce the strain of rapid pressing on one hand, using macros, settings to disable for less motion blur, the list goes on.
... Are most people gone? Cool, also the pl*gins that help reduce input needed (making combos like how they are in pvp, same button press), give me check ins with a little sound to remind me to posture check and stretch that I can freely customize to trigger only outside of combat, that kind of thing.
Minus the last bit, I genuinely do wanna help people with that kinda thing, or even just be someone who can be relaxed and supportive in game. I find people are especially hostile to disabled people in game, and people are incredibly quick to dismissing questions or raised concerns (like the Nier raids or recent Myths of the Realm moments still not having their photosensitivity issues fixed) with "If you can't handle it, stop playing!" Which is so annoyingly common these days it infuriates me.
And funnily enough, that text add on about 'blind' being thought of as black and white and only no vision made me think about how a lot of people think the same about wheelchair users too. People seem to not think that if they are capable of walking at all, no matter for how long, they no longer need it or are 'faking'. Lmao.
Your intro was spot on. A good mentor can offer so much more for new players than just rotation or mechanic advice. Well 14 is a very casual friendly MMO that does not in anyway mean it holds your hand through every system and offer adequate explanations for everything. Love this series wesk.
13:40 I will say, if someone knows what they're doing and have taken charge of a situation, I will typically stay silent if what they're saying is accurate. My thinking is having multiple people explaining stuff can make too much "noise".
That's kinda fair tbh.
It's also a 10 year old fight so lol if you even remember it
@@WeskAlberlmao also true
Thank you so much for that intro. For the longest time, I’ve tried to put into words why clearing a single fight (ie ultimate) would not make a good requirement for mentors.
Also for mentioning people with inpairments and how some people simply can’t raid - and that it doesn’t make them bad players. I know many people like this, and some of them genuinely are amazing players.
I’m also one of those souls, that whilst I can clear savage (I have done some) I simply cannot because I lack the time. But for some reasons good = raider rather than good = good player.
I’ll be interested to see what you say on trade mentor, as it’s definitely the easier of the two mentorship’s to achieve.
Waitin in que... for episode 8
Saying "Mentor requirements should be to clear savage or ultimate raids" is like saying "Every driving instructor should be able to race in F1"
This is such an excellent way of putting it.
Thank you Detective Prince Naoto Shirogane.
"Why is it always Lapis Manalis?"
Me, having to spam that a few weeks ago: DSR BiS.
But top bis too!?
I believe getting to the point of coughing then wheeze laugh is something that happens every Mentor Roulette session for me xD
come for discussions, stay for the good boi hopping around ❤
some of these folks’ requirements are fuckin’ wild
Max DPS strats for Babil. What a Chad!
I always appreciate watching you struggle with black mage. I know it's not your most comfortable job so I don't expect to see it a lot, but I love to see it when you do.
youve talked about it before of everyone seeing a mentor die to something and then people laugh at the mentor for not being perfect, but they do that for legends as well. why would somebody think that you must be one to be the other and then also be nothing but toxic towards the mentors for being human?? guys we are just ordinary people who have happened to put a lot of hours into the game. theres no requirement of perfection for the stupid little crown!
also, shouting out the idea of playing every job at least once during this journey is a great idea. a lot of mentors will queue only as summoner, red mage, or healers, to make sure they can carry as much responsibility as possible with a rez on demand. the best mentors can do even better, they can COMMUNICATE! they can teach the sprouts how to be the best player they can be! and the duties will end with victory not because one try-hard pulled everyone across the finish line by their balls, but because the best players made sure this team cleared with skill and knowledge, not luck.
This channel has good insight but tbh the reason I am subbed is because its hilarious hearing a northeast accent dude talk about something as nerdy as ffxiv.
Really enjoying this series and your insights Wesk. Keep it up.
I wear my crown all the time and mostly just... Try to help people. If I'm thinking something unhelpful (cause I'm still a person), I'm not typing it in chat. I don't have a legend title, never did any ultimates, haven't cleared an entire savage tier yet (not counting unsynced of course). Those as requirements would be completely nuts.
God, it feels nice to see someone trying to uptime the second Babil boss, it's my fave thing to mess up but I rarely see someone even try to pull it off in my runs unless I'm with my friends
14:27 That attempted Rescue is so funny.
Anyway, I wanted to say I really appreciate your guides. I just got my first character to level 50 and I'm excited to play on!
As someone who is closing in on her Burger King status, I really appreciate your talk in the beginning. I haven't done harder content and have noted that SE doesn't *require* harder content for mentors. It just requires you to put in time and be vaguely well-rounded as a player to help those players who are - less familiar -. You are absolutely there for onboarding and if you can teach MORE when you have the knowledge? Great. There are other mentors who will be way more knowledgeable than I am about a lot of things, and I absolutely defer to their experience (as long as it is helpful and good information). I make mistakes all the time, but I like to help! I can know stuff, but I'll be certain to fat-finger my damn buttons often enough, LOL.
I also REALLY appreciate your commentary on blindness and accessibility. I think people need to be far more aware about excluding those with different impairments and abilities as those players can be hugely helpful and make the community a better place.
OOF (~10:10 mark) - I actually had a REGULAR Raid Roulette drop me and a friend in Eyes of the Creator (A9). There were 2+ first-timers in there, so we had some hiccups and wipes. Explained how the batteries and ads worked (need to charge the ads up, then bring them to a melting quadrant and kill them there so they get melted down and not absorbed by the boss). It took a few more pulls, but we got that part down. Then we got to the Full Metal Faust ad, and the off tank would not listen about ONLY moving it into a melting quadrant once it was close to dying. So we wiped a few more times to the insta-kill burned-alive Faust, and the duty ended up Vote Abandoned. Super rare occurrence, that. I can count on one hand how many Vote Abandons I've actually seen in my years playing, and the number that are actually voted through is even smaller.
Thank you for mentioning accessibility, I also have a mild visual impairment and mild dexterity issues. I have the HUD bigger so I can see. I sometimes have problems moving out of orange splodges on the ground because they are too fast. I find white mage easiest to play. Lots of ways to keep myself alive as well as the party.
So I loved this statement you made! Mentors make mistakes, they aren’t perfect players! Hell been on the game for a hot moment and still learn new things here and there, I.e. didn’t know about achievement fates. Everyone still can learn something new and everyone can make mistakes. But for 99% Halicarnassus NN have been wonderful
19:49 I don't think I've ever survived a trailing AoE like that myself, I keep accidentally doubling back on myself or hit someone else with them and then THEY die.
for that one in particular, you can start on east or west side of the arena, and then just go straight across to the opposite side. The distance it follows you is short enough it won't get you, and as long as you don't run directly through everyone else, you shouldn't hit them.
I find the key is to run forward and keep running, never double back or you'll get deleted. If you need to turn, turn 90 degrees. Just keep running until it resolves.
Like others in the comments I want to thank you for talking about impairments. Impairments/disabilities come in all kind of shapes and forms, some of which we may be unfamiliar with too. Hopefully by adressing this people will also further think about the requirements for mentor roulette. Personally it would be upsetting if I were excluded from mentor roulette because I haven't been able to clear savage/ultimates because of my impairment. For me it's already frustrating enough that I currently cannot do that content (surely it's for others like that as well)
Ran into you while doing a Guildhest, it was nice to see you in the wild. Love your content and this series
Come on wesk, as a fellow monster hunter veteran, you know as well as I do that those hit boxes are always jank ^.^
That's some plesioth shenanigans hitbox
@18:35 Learned something new, was always jumping back on the pad at about 5 stacks, nice to know I can just do it once now XD. That Tower of Babil final stretch I'll just pull the packs normally, but atleast 50% of the time on Elemental, either a healer, or ranged will tag the mobs down the bottom forcing me to plant early :|
Hearing you say "Waiting on queue" makes me happier than it should. I guess that's how marketing works.
Oh and why no chain pull?
Chain pulling is going from group to group without finishing them off. You so pull first set of enemies, get them to 25%, run off to the next group instead of first finishing the job.
Finish your pull, with little to no exceptions. Go for the multi pull immediately, or just stay still.
@@WeskAlber I'm guilty of chain pulling, but to me it felt safer than wall to wall pulls, yet faster than "game designed" pulls. I can't see why it would be such a certain "don't do it".
Consider Black Mage.
If you need further examples of why it's really really ineffective, then idk what to tell ya.
@@WeskAlberI indeed do not enjoy running after mobs as a dps.
Knowing and executing on job mechanics is honestly two completely different things, yeah. I know how Ninja works but actually playing it is a nightmare for me, meanwhile playing Black Mage is actually pretty fun to execute when your procs and stuff line up just right for movement or such
I love these videos and can't wait until I end up in a random group with you again, and hope I perform well this time. :D
interesting video, i actually learned some new things I didnt know about !
I feel like most people suggesting savages, let alone ultimates as a requirement for mentorship have ZERO clue what clearing those actually entail as far as time commitment, especially if you don't have a static.. we're talking weeks (if not more) of progging, not hours
Not a mentor so I have no horse in this race, but I honestly wish people progging EX wouldn't use the DF. But what can ya do.
And it's almost always super old extremes too. I wish extremes were far away from mentor roulette tbh.
I had Ravana Ex in a mentor roulette once. I do not remember the fight unsynced at all, so I died. They had apparently been attempting it repeatedly for some time so I made a suggestion in the chat that they might have better luck putting up a group in PF. They said it took too long and called me a fake ass mentor, all because I was unprepared for a completely random extreme that's years old.
YOU give such good advice.
I'd like to see something like, mitigate X amount of damage on tanks. Also something equally aligned to proper play on the other roles.
god i love the rants they rule
I was discussing this recently, but the actual requirements to be a mentor are obviously garbage, but no one seems to have a clear consensus on what they actually should be. The idea I liked most was a soft application process to make sure people are trying to be a mentor for the right reasons, and having to maintain it via occasional mentor roulettes. The issue is that it feels very job like, but the base problem is one with no clear right answer.
Issues with these suggestions:
Applications aren't automated
Mentor =/= Mentor Roulette (and making it a job)
Impairments
yeah, unfortunately i dont think there IS a right answer. its "how do we get in all the people who want to be mentors, while weeding out people that just want to flex", and there isnt really a way to do that. i think series like this are a good way to do it, to just actively make people want to be actual mentors through seeing someone else do it.
That prepull buff battle mentor tho....
This week was crazy I do not know what it was but normally I get about like 1 ex for every 10, but this week it was 1 for every 3-4. One time i got an ex three times in a row. Was really fun to tank shiva with 11 damage up as a sge lol. Also feel stupid for not realizing its better to not stack at all for the great hunt ex.
Your intro makes me think also about how I teach savage fights and even though I have cleared ultimates, I am still average at best at teaching compared to other colleagues who have been teaching longer yet have never set foot in an ultimate.
I thought it was funny because I never thought I'd be to a point in this game where I'm nearly at the requirements for mentor. I'm 200 coms away, and I never thought to check until I saw your intro about the requirements. I might have to try out this mentor grind. The requirements are way too lax for someone who don't play the game even hardly, and I feel like this thing needs to be readjusted requirements myself. I'm to this point just because I'm lvling two classes. I don't have Gladiator unlocked either, I think I'm missing one other class, and I don't have most of the DPS roles leveled. I only play casters and range DPS, with MNK and DRG being my only two melee DPS classes. At some point there, I feel like something there doesn't add up for the requirements.
Maybe an expert, queue in for only savage or Unreal content at sync item level. Mainly basing this off the expert block from PSO2. Where only people who cleared certain content can clear. Then have the mentor roulette as a tutor/student roulette where new/returning players can get into. This covers everything minus Unreal, Savage, and Ultimates; I feel like that Extremes are debatable.
Yes, I would like to see all the jobs played at some point for Mentor Roulette.
...and 50 million of your Gil for a house.
I thoroughly appreciate seeing that yugioh abridges reference.
Now i need to go watch it again 😂
Regarding the intro. I personally don't go into harder content (savage contet) due to my relatively bad internet. And seeing that even the tiniest of delays or doing something out of time can kill you and basically ruining the run. I preffer to avoid it in order to don't disrupt the fun for everyone ;w;
Just watching the intro, maybe the Battle Mentor requirements should be a range of options? Like, a minimum of X duty roulettes completed, Y commendations, one of each role at 90 with all quests complete, and then one of 'current expansion Savage tier completion', 'current expansion Ultimate completion', 'all current expansion Extremes completions', or 'X more duty roulettes completed', or something?
Something where doing harder content shortcuts the requirements, but you don't *have* to do the harder content, you can grind it out on roulettes instead if you prefer.
Someone else mentioned there being a raid mentor, and yeah if we had that, that could be useful. Wouldn't really affect things though, since like I said, being able to teach someone is its own issue.
I’m stealing that tower of babil frog thing thank you
I need the game to actively go after Wesk by having the enemies target him just for the content. Lol
I think combat mentor requirements could be a little bit less lenient, specifically in only needing to level 1 of each role to 90. Since as of Endwalker, you can get Tank to 90 and pick up a healer and DPS starting off at 70 in Sage and Reaper. Or simply level Scholar to 90 and pick up Gunbreaker at 60. You're just not going to pick up enough knowledge that way. I would suggest that if you want mentor, you should have each job leveled to 50 at minimum on top of each role at 90. This would give you at least the basic Idea of what each job wants to do through personal experience and a pretty solid foundation of ARR content to guide sprouts.
Might as well make trade mentor the same, one of each at 90 with the rest at least at 50. Which odds are if you're leveling crafters and gatherers you're leveling them across the board regardless
19:39 Oh! I didn't know Arm's Lenght works on this!!! Nice!
Of course, you are mistaken, you need ultimate raid to understand how to unlock mounts
I am glad u get as many mentor deadweights in Extremes as I do xD
Visiting cause my jackass smn friend wanted to flaunt his appearance in your eden levi run, stellar stuff though!
Bruh, getting the commendations is the hardest. I have literally every other requirement but that done.
Play healer/tank, watch them flow in.
I was curious if you had any thoughts on the Mentor requirements allowing for unsynced clears to meet the requirements- the idea of requiring Savage and Ultimates seems very silly, but it does strike me as also silly that me 2-shotting most ARR Extreme primals as a level 90 has qualified me to "mentor" people on the synced versions of those fights.
Mentor does not require EX clears. Roulette does.
But also I don't think EX should be in there anyway
On the mentor thing, I mostly agree with your takes. I agree that being an active raider isn't necessarily indicative of skill, but I would argue that it is correlated. I've been in savage raids where players did not know how to do a rotation, and they were swiftly booted. However, I would make the distinction that you can't say that you're skilled at the combat portion of the game if you've never raided period, savage or not. There has to be a cutoff line somewhere, otherwise one could make the argument that completing Sastasha for the first time makes you good at the game, and no one would take that argument seriously. The cutoff in my opinion is someone who has never done a raid period.
Hard agree that one should not necessarily have to be a raider at all to be a mentor. One can be knowledgeable about the game without having done the hardest content.
Edit: reading this back it comes across as not recognizing you said you agreed. I got off the topic of skill way too fast. Lemme clarify, what I meant was the point of: I disagree that it does anything more than "prove" you are good and it doesn't even matter if you're "good" anyway so long as you're not being a detriment/ass. Proof of being good is not required to actually be good.
But that's just going from one extreme to another. Saying Savage means anything is too far expecting too much, but so does saying Sastasha means anything is too little. It's a pure fact that plenty of good players exist without doing Savage, but nor do they NEED to be good. If they're being helpful, that's all it needs to be.
Can a skilled player do MORE than a knowledgeable player? No. No they can't. They can do DIFFERENT things to be helpful. A skilled player is not inherently knowledgeable, nor is that enough to be a mentor either. Someone even in these comments said "yeah, I'm a quad legend but I couldn't teach if I tried." Teaching is an entirely different skill. Being skilled does not mean you can teach. Being knowledgeable doesn't mean you can teach.
But regardless of any of that, the reality of mentoring usually boils down to the "obvious" stuff. You wanna know how many times I've answered "press B" to a question? A LOT! Because novice gatherers either have them off or skip the Active Help that tells them that the Log (now quite literally) tells them where to find anything they need until Legendary nodes. Simple stuff like that is the main bread and butter of mentoring.
It's a HUGE game even as far as battle content goes. And so we need a variety of different people.
@@WeskAlber Fair. I had written out 5 paragraphs addressing your points, which was quite fun, but in the end I concluded that my standard might be too high and being colored by my own experience of first learning the game. As you say, the majority of the advice you give out is essentially the basics of the game.
I didn't use the Novice Network when I first started playing as I was able to either figure things out myself, or was good enough at Google-fu to find other people that had the answers to more complex stuff like job rotations.
Ah well, I concede to your points. Thanks for the discussion! I haven't had a good one that made me type out an essay at 5am in a long time lol
@@CloudsOfDespair Would have made for an interesting read at least. Have a good one though.
ATTENTION DUELISTS. WESK IS HERE TO MENTOR HOW TO USE YOUR HAIR.
Great thoughts like always, thanks boss.
The fundamental issue with mentorship, is that the skills and knowledge needed to be able to teach new players and answer questions is something thats basically impossible to put a game mechanic barrier behind. The battle mentor conditions being basically "play the game a lot" is on the right lines. I feel like in theory an in game quiz could be a considerable solution but ego mentors who just want the crown would just look up the answers. I feel like there should be a better in game explanation of what is expected of a mentor if anything.
So basicallly, to be the ideal mentor, you need to no-life all dungeons, raids, series and classes?
@@iantaakalla8180Not quite, the exact conditions as wesk says in the video, are 1500 commendations and to have done the role quests for at least one dps, tnak and healer, the comms takes a while to get, I got them when in shb I only had a couple more jobs to have levelled to 80 (I started in shb) but its not like, insane dedication.
I see the conditions. My point is that despite the conditions, what people expect is a no-lifer raider/dungeoneer.
so, my experience as a mentor in Rathalos EX was horrible, because NOBODY listens! the reason you get jaded mentors is because nobody listens to us!
Hehe, I liked that YGOTAS reference
What I thought about being a mentor is someone who can guide and perform consistently through normal contents.
So my opinion would be like this:
Yeah, remove EX from mentor. Late coming players who dedicated their time playing normal content as daily basis are there and they have lots of knowledge enough to teach people. And believe it or not, they have zero knowledge of EX prior to what they start playing. I started playing where EW was about to be released, so all EX from 2.0 to 5.5, don't have any of that knowledge.
But commendation requirement is stupid, like everyone said, it could be someone who played thousand runs of Sastasha and played other contents only once.
What I suggested would be
- Having every role at least 1 job at max level
- Played all Dungeons, Trials, Normal Raids, and Alliance for a certain number of it (like 20 each, 50 each or 100 each, or something)
- Having Leveling, Trial, 50/60/70/80/90, Normal Raid, and Alliance Roulette for certain number.
Maybe not the best filter but at least, we get someone who actually "know" the content and also better filter than commendation counts.
about doing all jobs thing - don't care if you do everyone or not - but it is interesting to see differences between the roles.
few months (at least less than 6) until you will have to start redoing the levelling guides.
I'm registered blind went to a blind boarding school so no you don't have to be totally blind, I use to raid in WOW honestly just not that into it any more just happy to watch others
It's sad I was on my phone 30 mins ag and no notification but here I am
At 15:51 where did you see the 13 minutes on your screen? Edit: I looked at the video on pc then saw it. In the Duty Ready window where you have the options "Commence" "Wait" or "Withdraw", it showed Time Elapsed 13m in yellow text in the middle of the window. It was hard for me to see on mobile.
Weill try to remember if I can increase the size of that thing
ME personally I will never rock a legend title ❤but that’s just me I also hide my ult weapon lol
Hi Wesk, will you be my friend? Can I play this game with you? I love running dungeons. =)
I truly value and respect your disposition on these topics and think you are doing great work.
Im with you in that there is a lot more to being a mentor than just being able to clear high end content. There is a different skill set required for savage and ultimates, one that does need to be practiced and cultivated. You dont need that to know how to sneak past enemies in Qarn or focus on a specific enemy first in sastasha hard. You dont need to know how to savage raid in order to guide someone though when to use their aoes on mobs vs single targets. Or to pull packs out of tornados in neverreap. Mentor isnt having a phd in the game, its having a little more experience in the game than someone else, and being willing to share that information. What purose would there be in forcing that?
Ps. As far as Im aware in Babil you dont have to worry about dancing off the pad when mini'd, i think your damage stays the same. What the risk is might be staying that way after and taking extra damage. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong!
I'm pretty sure mini reduces damage in all accounts!
@@WeskAlber huh. My own testing had not shown a difference but in this case I'll trust your judgment especially since it double checking to try and fact check myself The only evidence I can find is that the debuff has that deficit. Learned two things today... I thought breathless would take you out after five counts
That's why I read the tooltip on Breathless, I forgot how many stacks you could handle. Try reading the Mini tooltip next time you're in there. I'm pretty sure it reduces damage. But maybe this one doesn't, weirdly.
@@WeskAlber I will make note to do so next time I'm in there. A quick look at one of the wiki sites backs you up on mini without addendum, where breathless has either a 10 count or an 8 count depending on where you are. I think my caution of 5 count is based off of tsukuyomi.
Salty people want mentors to do harder content because then the mentor has "proven they're good at the game" because of the "mentor bad" stigma. As someone who does savage, I hard disagree, most savage raiders can't read, have no patience and will probably still do equally as bad anyways. Savage raiders are not good, we just have more time and less sanity. I say Mentors could possibly have to maintain completing extremes (since they'll be mentor roulette next expansion anyways), wouldn't be the most unreasonable ask, but it would still not be a good idea.
Mentor is a state of mind, you have to be willing to teach. But being taught is also a skill and with some people you'd probably have better luck teaching a rock to do the job instead. If people don't want to learn, but expect so much of mentors, then what you want isn't a mentor, it's someone to hard carry you, and that's a you issue.
See, I don't even like Extremes being in the roulette. Because I sure as hell don't remember every nuance involved in Mog EX for things to go smoothly. Ravana I remember most of but fuck if I could do the prey passes toward the end. (DPS is so high you probably never see them though)
Generally, I'm better at remembering mechanics of everything I've done more than most. Expecting mentors to not only remember every normal duty but ALSO every EX? That's so much info it is genuinely unreasonable.
@@WeskAlber Honestly they should remove the experts from mentor roulette but, if they're going to keep them in, then I can at least, almost understand it. I'm not saying I agree with needing to do experts.
I honestly wish SE utilised mentors properly, they're a badly implemented attempt to get players to help each other out and more often than not they just become the target of mostly unwarranted abuse. Issue is, as players it's fairly obvious we can't agree on what we want mentors to be, so, SE should step in for DT and either give mentors a specific place that better suits their actual purpose, or, do away with mentor and let the community support itself?
Novice Network.
@@WeskAlber That just feels like in game global chat when I used it. There were no novices there, just vets talking inapropriate conversations so I left. I would much rather send a sprout to the ff14 reddit or google before the novice network... If they're going to have it can they at least have a GM or 2 moderating it
Depends on the server, and that's why the report function exists. Novices aren't always talking either. They might be in scenes or etc. Even when a few months ago NN was CAPPED at the full 412 Novices that could join at one time, I would say no more than 20 were speaking.
I genuinely hate Alexander after I have had it about 95% of times in NR Roulette for the past 3 years, so the insta leave is justified in my eyes :P
Honestly ive had issues with dps pulling the boss while im tank and still getting used to tank and it kinda just annoys me like please 5 extra seconds to make sure everyone is ready wont kill you
i was so close to leaving my alexander raid last night lmao, i stayed because theyre so fast but theyre so borrringgggg
edit: just got to the leviathan fight, cracked up at the rescue attempt
Waiting on QuEuEeeeeeeeee!
and yes, the hitbox in Rathalos N/Ex is absolut BS
17:25 People farming for ultimate gear :p
Where is Lunar then?! That's TOP BiS!
17:24 dsr bis lmao
Ultimate is mentor requirement?
An alpha legend mentor off tank wiped the party twice in in A9N. N as in Normal. kwab.
And he wouldn't listen to an advice from a sprout, me, sometimes I RP as a sprout.
I complimented his legend and left.
Anyway, why do you want savage and ultimate as requirement when the hardest content is just level sync extremes?
If you want a requirement, it would be to clear all the content level sync.
BEST FF14 SERIES
17:25 lot of people are going for TOP bis and lapis manalis is where its at 🔥🔥 (i am deathly tired of it i wanna listen to the silly loporitt dungeon music again)
TOP is actually Lunar Subterrane. This is for DRU
@@WeskAlber you're the first person I've seen refer to it as DRU and not DSR that's cool
Naaah you shouldn't have to play all the jobs. There's like what 20 jobs now? Who can remember to play all of them? You're doing a good job
19! and I play em all!
Normal dungeons are very different from Savage and Ultimate in the first place... they require very different skillsets.
I've seen people with Legends titles playing sub-optimally or even worse, like absolute dumbasses, in normal dungeons.
I wanna see you do scholar
Honestly I don't mind what job you're playing, there's a lot of runs to be done and I'd rather you play what you feel like
What is "Chain Pull?" So I don't do it by mistake
Going from group to group without finishing them off. You so pull first set of enemies, get them to 25%, run off to the next group instead of first finishing the job.
Finish your pull, with little to no exceptions. Go for the multi pull immediately, or just stay still.
@@WeskAlber Oh, shit. That's what I use to do, before I got comfortable with wall-to-wall pulls. Wish someone had told me back then.
@@NekuraCa yeah no with how this game works, it's just not nearly that effective. Like even ignoring cooldowns and healing...
Black mage. Just, black mage.
I agree with you that the combat mentor requirements are mostly fine, HOWEVER, I also think the Mentor Roulette unlock should have different requirements from it.
As it stands, you just need to have all normal and past EX content cleared to enter, but that doesn't mean you cleared synced and therefore leads to what you saw in Shiva EX, mentors who have absolutely no clue about how to do a fight they signed up to help with because they cleared it unsynced and very overleveled. We need a better way to determine if those players are ready to teach said fights.
My original idea was to have them face a "Mentor Trial" before unlocking Mentor Roulette to certify they can actually teach in EX instances and properly perform their jobs in said scenario, but I don't know how feasible that would be from SE's perspective.
You'd still be a combat mentor without that roulette, mind you, so people like your healer friend could absolutely still have the crown and teach sprouts in the NN, it would just make sure that if you sign up for a roulette that can land you in EX content, you can actually clear it.
I say this as someone who HAS cleared all these fights synced: fuck EXs being in the roulette. I have so many horror stories about this shitty ass EX all from sprouts who made doing EX hell. There's a reason I called it "my nemesis" this episode. There's a reason I said I'd NEVER cleared Ramuh in Mentor roulette, despite the many times I'd run into it. Even if I remember it, even if I know how to guide the group, it doesn't mean the group cares about listening, or has the ability to even clear.
There is also no way to do a teaching certification without a person looking over the details manually. But then also how do you test for like 40 EX trials that are all different? At this point I probably can't clear Mog EX without pulling up a guide because the fight is so old and I do not remember it. But I cleared it synced, *8 years ago* when I started playing. I meet any requirement people can throw at me. Cleared TOP on-patch, clear savage within a few weeks even in PF, clear every duty synced. I'm old enough to hit that with even the further caveat that you have to clear them on expansion. I'm old enough to be an ARR player. And I'm old enough to not remember key mechanics required to fight.
See also, the Garuda fight. I had to ask which add I tank. I remembered I needed to tank ONE of them, but I remembered nothing of which one I needed. Mog, I don't remember how the tanks work beyond "take king and two tank mogs." I don't remember priority beyond BLM is 1, WHM is 2. But usually a 3 was also marked. The Bard, maybe? Coulda been the thief though! Even within that there are mechanics like Moogle-go-Round that 1 shots anyone got in it I don't remember how to solve. I knew these mechanics. I don't anymore.
Even if these people did clear these fights synced, if they didn't do it in DF with a random group of people who might also have no idea rather than the normal of like PF, the experience is 100%, entirely different.
And like, obviously the people who have impairments aren't going to be doing Mentor Roulette. if someone can barely handle dungeons, they aren't going to make it to the unlock, let alone ever try to queue it.
@@WeskAlberFrom what I've heard around several times, EXs being in Mentor Roulette is apparently a thing because JP uses DF to clear those fights rather than PF. Now, I have no way to personally confirm nor deny this, since I'm not a JP player nor am I gonna boost a character there just to check, but assuming this is true, it would make sense why they're in the roulette since SE has always catered towards JP players.
That's why I suggested making some sort of Mentor Roulette-specific trial before you can run it, since as it is now, if they don't want to remove EX from the queu (which I agree with you, I'd rather not have EXs there) they need to at least ensure the average player who uses that roulette should be able to clear whatever they're thrown into (A.K.A. not be dead weight). As for how to do this, I don't know, maybe 3 mini-trials (one per role), to see if you can handle harder role-specific stuff you could get in Mentor Roulette. Healers could have something like a mini-Shinryu EX, having to DPS while healing a tank and an add, for example. They could steal some stuff from the Masked Carnivale and do a series of tests instead. That job I leave to the devs and Mr Ozma, who are way more talented than me at coming up with encounters.
Of course, just like you've experiences first hand, some groups are doomed to fail from the start due to both sprouts not listening and other mentors who don't give a damn. I have cleared Ramuh EX in Mentor Roulette a handful of times, but I've failed it way more. I had to spend around 45 minutes teaching a group who didn't listen at first how to do Ifrit EX a few weeks ago. We cleared, even if it drained my sanity for the rest of the day.
The difference between us and a lot of people who join Mentor Roulette just for the Astrope is that, even if we don't fully remember an encounter, we can probably do a quick read on the wiki and go "aha, I remember now!" and be able to at least teach the basics of a fight. I may not remember exactly how Mog EX works either, but I remember that you need to lower all the moogles evenly so they damage the king more when he tries to heal them, for example, so a quick glance at the wiki could fill in the voids. I'm sure most of us who actually want to help do this whenever we don't remember a specific EX we get thrown into.
My point is, if they want to keep the EX duties in the roulette, then Mentor Roulette needs a higher barrier of entry to ensure mentors can actually help with them (hopefully that would also reduce the amount of mentors who insta-bail the moment they see an EX). If they want to remove the EXs from it, then it's fine as it is.
Savage only belongs in unlocking mentor, if they foolishly add savages to the roulette.
"Legally blind" is such a weird term. Isn't it just a bad eyesight? Thing that glasses help with. Lots of my friends wear glasses and I never considered them "blind", even if they can only see shapes without glasses.
Like I say, do some research. Because you're not even CLOSE to what Legal Blindness encompasses.
Research added narrow field of vision to the bad eyesight.
It's been 10 minutes. You didn't do all that much. Like most things, sight is a spectrum and has multiple axis. Field of vision, etc etc. When people talk about blindness, they almost never mean Color Blind, because that's in itself is so varied it needs its own section of discussion. It's so all over that you can legally get a pilot's license but be banned from driving.
"Just bad eyesight" is just plain ignorance at that point.
Well, yeah. I only googled it for a bit because several opened articles said the same stuff. 20/200 and fov. Didn't see mention of colour blindness, but makes sense.
Actualy there is another requirements for a player who want to be a mentor. You also need all the EX battles. You didnt see this reqquirementt cause you already have them due you run harder content cause you like it.
You do not need to clear any EX to be a mentor. You are thinking the requirements for Mentor Roulette, which still isn't every EX. Current expansion EX don't need to be cleared. But ALL duties in mentor need to be cleared.
I really don't see the point of requiring Savage or Ultimate for Mentorship when Sprouts are likely going to be leaving Novice Network long before they are in a position to start raiding themselves, Hell, I felt that whenever my time as a sprout or as a Returner is over, I was usually still struggling with various things even OUTSIDE the purview of Extremes/Savage/Ultimate, like once my sprout status went away I couldn't easily ask questions about say a job or role I am very unfamilliar with. for example, dungeons are currently a big struggle for me as I learn tank, despite me (trying to and still struggling) to do harder content on healer. To the point I feel like while i do agree there needs to be some change to the mentor requirements, if we're going to have more "strict" Mentor requirements, there's little to no point to that when sprouts/returner's time in NN is so limited. Eventually the system cuts them loose and they have to either figure things out on their own or turn to external sources of learning now. I almost feel like if there is some change to Mentor Requirements, it would have to come with some changes to sprout/returner status, I'd love if a player could elect to remain a sprout if they still feel like they need guidance/the ability to speak with Mentors rather than being cut loose and going "okay, just go watch guides about openers and go read your job resources page on The Balance a billion times, good luck!" Nevermind that a lot of Job guides are made the Savage/Ultimate as the initial assumption and that's going to be hard to understand without the context of how raiding works irt raid buffs and potions and all of that.
If someone is still learning how to big pull without dying on gunbreaker and needs to learn how to pull and cooldown properly, telling them to read The Balance is like telling someone who's never ridden a bike to enter the Tour de France.