Gary Player on Bobby Jones OTT Miracle Swing
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- Опубликовано: 28 ноя 2024
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► About Christo Garcia's Channel
This video is brought to you by Christo Garcia, the founder of the Miracle Swing Experience. Christo is a highly experienced Golf Instructor, with over 20 years of experience in the field.
He has been sharing his expertise on RUclips for more than 13 years, providing top-quality Golf Instruction to help golfers of all levels improve their game.
Throughout his channel you will learn about the Golf Swing, including Golf Backswing Drills, Golf Takeaway Tips, Golf Impact Positions, and more. His expert Golf Tips will help you perfect your posture, alignment, grip, and weight transfer, and achieve a consistent and powerful Golf Swing.
Christo also shares his insider secrets on how to create solid iron contact and increase your Golf driver distance. With his guidance, you'll learn how to make small adjustments to your swing mechanics that can make a significant impact on your game.
It's all relative! Jones is so far inside going back that to get back on plane, he has to re route it back to a plane that would be considered non over the top for other pros. I use the Jones swing and I love it. The club unwinds naturally with no extra thoughts or overthinking in the mind. Sure, you can call it over the top, but not in the traditional, negative sense. Other instructors are teaching the outside in approach. To each his own. The new thinking is to teach the individual based on his/her natural tendencies, rather than try to apply a swing to the individual.
Yes, not over the top, he is swinging to the ball inside the ball target line.
I could listen to Gary Player all day. What a knowledgeable, charismatic gentleman he is. Thank you Christo for all of your content. Great work!
I used to Idolize Gary Player but after he was schilling for the Saudi's at the Masters he con go freak himself.
And think of this, Bruce Lietzke was one of the greatest ball strikers who ever lived. He was inside and "OTT", and pured it nearly every time. And he never practiced, and would not touch his clubs for 3 months in the winter. I watched him at the New Orleans tournament warming up on the range. He hit 5 wedges, maybe 5 5-irons, 3 drivers, and was done. Every shot sounded like a gunshot and had the slightest soaring fade, just beautiful.
Excellent video and we Gary Player fans are looking forward to seeing him at the Masters 2022, and his ceremonial drive off the first tee. It will be a precious moment like always with Jack and this year Tom Watson. Most Sincerely, Bill M., Uncasville,CT(the biggest fan of Gary Player in the USA since 1966).
A little known fact is that Mr Player is a superstar not just among the elites of South Africa, he's a township hero too. He even designed our golf course here in Soweto. True legend.
I swung like this as a kid, no lessons, except I was taught alignment and the rest is history. I started when I was sixth and I’m now 63. I have since adopted the ‘’MODERN ‘’ swing, but hit the ball well when I come over a little. I will experiment with taking it a little more to the inside and see how I perform. Thanks Cristo for your insights.
Mike Malaska talks about ott from the inside. We're all searching for the elusive key to the swing, problem I find is that it's going to be a forever search. Love your love for the game, all the best to you sir.
I'd love to find that video if you know which one it is! Thanks for watching. Have you seen the OTT Swing on MSE TV yet?
the problem is people have this idea of "theres a right way" and they DONT understand that they have to develop their own feel for the swing feling the club face by the way the weight changes in your hands, and by feeling how your body moves...... if a person tries filling their head with "i need to be here, and here and here" in their swing, they'll forever suck.... you gotta have the feel and then be able to clear your mind and be comfortable in the swing
It's starting to come for me. I just needed to slow my swing down a little to get the feel and the rhythm of the movement. Keep up the great work my friend!
This is great to hear, Dennis! Keep it up!
I totally agree with this
I didn’t know what an OTT swing was until I videoed myself. I have taught myself to come in from the inside and then I use my normal swing with great results. There’s something very natural about hitting over the top. It’s just how you get there. I have also changed my stance, the ball is more inside versus outside, this allows me to hit the ball sooner with my over the top hitting.
I tried the OTT swing on the range the other day and I totally understand the giggling motion by the guy at 2:30.
The easy, effortless, consistent ball strike, the added distans, the non-existing slice. I could hook the ball but that got solved by getting my right shoulder down on impact ("hitting the ball with the trailing shoulder"). Another game changing detail was moving the the left, leading, calf (knee) back in the downswing.
It was like 1+1+1=17
The other night I played a nine hole practice round scoring 4 over par and I'm a middle age 16 hcp player.
I signed up for the free month, TY! I've always been deep and had a OOT path, but your video insight should help straighten my flight out!
I've been stuck at an 8 hdcp for 3 years and it gets frustrating not hitting more greens. My last problem was hitting irons FAT even off tees on par 3's, I tried everything, and for those of you reading what has helped in the past few months is throwing/releasing at the 8 o'clock position and keep moving.
At least I know I'm gonna hit it /move it towards the green, hope that helps anyone hitting it fat.
Pay close attention to the weight shift drill in the Over the Top Miracle Swing video, Derek. That's going to fix your problem!
Jones took the club back so far inside that you could come back outside that line and still stay inside the target line.
My thought exactly! He keeps saying that Jones and others are coming OTT and maybe they are relative to how far inside their takeaway is, but if you look at the club approaching impact, the club is very much moving from the inside. The so-called "modern swing" has the golfer taking the club back more upright and then shallowing out. This swing does the opposite. It has the golfer taking the club back more to the inside and then coming down a little steeper, relative to the backswing, which he is calling OTT.
That doesn't actually make it over the top either... Most of these examples are not OTT in the way most amateurs are OTT. Of course you can get into a good impact position if you are slightly OTT.
@@NickMart1985 well, the key thing is that, though the club moves outside the position of the hands- in the downswing- it doesn't move outside the line. it's all in the grip secret. when you look closely you can see jones' left arm is ever so slightly bent at the top. but, in the start of his downswing his left arm straightens. if he actively came "over the top", or just simply recoiled, his left arm wouldn't straighten, in the start of his downswing. but, it does look as though jones is going to come over the top, in the start of his downswing, but then the club seems hold itself inside the line. it is almost as if he moves himself around from the top into a position that enables him to swing thru. but, the grip secret is key to this move. and, it is so obvious when you look closely at what he does with his left wrist joint when he starts down.
@@DASH1ful Please explain the grip secret you are seeing.
@@ItZaViBe89 well, he presses in with the joint of his left wrist; or, flexor retinaculum, as you might call it.
Tremendous work Amigo!
This is totally correct for certain measurements and recruitments.
REF: Mike Adams head pro at Medalist CC, Terry Rowles, Bio Swing Dynamics and also EA Tischler.
They specialize in grouping golfers into categories.
OTT works for some folks due to wingspans, upper arm : forearm lengths, weight post, right arm release style.....but it all starts with the grip!
Thanks, Amigo! Interesting view points as always. I appreciate the fine input!
I'm far from an expert, but it looks as though Bobby takes the club back way inside, then comes back on plane, but because it comes down on plane it pretty much looks OTT. This is something I've always done, and thought I had a OTT swing, yet it was always on plane.
Hi Edward, I would say it's Over the Top in relation to his backswing plane. That just takes the club back to square! Check out the new video if you have any questions!
@@MiracleSwingExperience that's exactly what it is. But the downswing is beautifully planed. I have a very inside backswing, and recover well, with it coming back on plane. Nothing quite as beautiful as Bobby's swing though. Gee, what an action 😍
I have lived in fear of that low inside takeaway forever, because I used to try and send the club back down the same path to keep from "going over the top"... the result was either a huge push right or hitting the ground well behind the ball. That low inside takeaway really is the easiest way to take the club back, and it is also real easy to readjust the downswing from there so as to stop going wildly in to out on the downswing. Good, powerful fades result from the path only (instead of having the face open), just like a good powerful draw that is controllable. I dont think its a true "over the top" move unless the club is going wildly out to in.
Miguel Ángel Jiménez is another OTT swinger. Shoulders go over the top but the club is still routed beautifully through the ball. And Victor Hovland looks to me to be very OTT with the shoulders, but a beautiful path with the club head once again.
Two of my favorite OTT swingers right there for sure! Also, Benhard Langer.
@@MiracleSwingExperience That's so true, I didn't really notice it about Langer until you mentioned it.
No. The downswing shaft is coming out of Jones' back, which means he is not over the top. You see what you want to see, but OTT is not here. Freeze it at 7:04 If that's OTT, you're nuts.
I agree, this isn't OTT. You can also freeze 6:21. He's perfectly on plane - note right shoulder working under and club works through right forearm. If anything Bobby is more under due to his open stance. I think footage like this is deceptive because you have to know the shot shape/type the player is trying to achieve. Some players are better than others at rerouting the club
is it over the top when you start the downswing with your lower body as per what Ben Hogan ?
Are we playing with shafts that are too stiff? Bobby Jones used bendy hickory clubs which in my eyes seemed to give him more more time and perhaps feel during that beautiful swing.
Bravo from Texas! Well done.
Thanks a lot, Stan! Do you swing like this? Have you checked on the video on MSE TV? It's very good and clear.
@@MiracleSwingExperience When I was in my 20's and 30's and built like you I was a natural over the topper who could hit a nice long cut off the tee. From tee to green I was always on the green or around the green in regulation. Horrible short game. Still shot in low 80's and was constantly flirting with breaking 80 . Then I destroyed it because "you have to draw the ball". Now at 63 I've got a really respectable short game and I've made my peace with it. You swing like you walk. And you ain't gonna change it. And yes, I'll check out the video.
And btw......... I learned to draw the ball when I have to. I just don't "see" shots that way.
@@stanmorgan4628 I'm hitting a cut off the tee and drawing my irons.
@@stanmorgan4628 It's crazy how I tried to change my swing to something less natural.
Interesting to watch his lead leg action during the swing!
He's dancing!
It's not over the top. Its just inside in the backswing. The downswing is perfect. All modern day has done, is the backswing is outside or on plane
Nice vid Christo! Moe Norman made an OTT move... so does your friend Todd Graves. Moe used to say "...in and up." You can easily see in his down the line vids that he makes his move from the top ABOVE the path from his backswing.
Hi Christo I think what you are now teaching need to be distinguished from the over the top pulls and over swinging that many amateurs suffer from. Correct?
Here is a review on Percy Boomers book that Gary Player speaks of
5.0 out of 5 starsVerified Purchase
Completely stop your crazy up and down swing. Percy will show you how.
Reviewed in the United States on April 15, 2008
Totally the best. His descriptions of how to make an in-to-out swing are superb. "It is only by feeling the swing going out to the right can we get the ball to go straight." This is good stuff!
He is the original one-plane swing man and shows how you can do it. He gives useful visuals as seen from the golfer, not a camera. For example, "You must feel at the top of your swing that your club and left arm are waist high." Waist high! No camera will see your hands waist high but by golly YOU can, and it is a great visual to keep the swing going around your body, not up-and-down.
This idea of the flat, 3/4 swing was radical in 1946, taken up by Ben Hogan and commercialized without recognition to Percy by Jim Hardy. Other ideas in the book, like feel the clubhead with your body (pg 134) was stolen by Manuel de la Torre and "Connectedness of arms and body" (pg 135) made a whole career for Jimmy Ballard. But that's not important now. What's important is, if your game is being ruled by over-the-top pulls and sliding slices and overswings and you want to start fresh, this is your chance. Take it!
Cool. I have the book.
I’m someone looking to teach golfers and I’m curious how many students you have at any given time? I’d love for you to share that with me if you wouldn’t mind:) loved this video
yes, what you are saying is very similar to the new pete cowen 25 minute video about the "delivery position". but, jones did not have an over the top move. the club may have moved outside the position of the hands, but it stayed inside the line. it is as if his club has its own tracker and directs itself around and thru towards the target. and, to be fair, you do say that he swings "out and down". but, when you look closely you can see jones' left arm is ever so slightly bent at the top. but, in the start of his downswing his left arm straightens. if he actively came "over the top", or just simply recoiled, his left arm wouldn't straighten, in the start of his downswing. and, the key to this is that he presses in with the joint of his left wrist in the start of his downswing. when you look closely you can see him do it. his grip actually firms up when he presses in with the wrist joint. and, this, also, establishes the pattern of his swing arc, in the downswing. it brings the club around whilst holding it inside the line.
So correct me if I'm wrong... It's the hands that come back more on the inside then on the downswing more over the top plane. Not the clubhead
Very interesting Christo
Victor Hovland is a great example of this
Yes, he's awesome! Let me know if you've seen the OTT Miracle video!
Just curious,do you call Finau and Rahm OTT and is OTT simply casting the club at shoulder level.
It's the John Daly swing. He even talks about in his book. It's also the 'in and over' swing Billy Harmon talked about in a Golf Illustrated article in the 90s.
Yes, John Daly is one of the very best at this swing. Can't believe it's been overlooked. He's amazing. I'd love to find that Billy Harmon article!
@@MiracleSwingExperience My copy vanished when we moved. I've tried to find it without any luck.
Aside from Snead, he mentioned Craig Stadler, Craig Parry, and Bobby Jones as other 'in and over' players, and a good deal of the article was discussing Bruce Lietzke and how this swing enabled him to go fishing instead of the range.
There was also a drill that involved three lines on the ground. The middle line was straight, the farthest line pointed right, and the closest line pointed left. The idea was to setup with the clubface pointed right along the farthest line, swing back on that line, as well, then on the downswing, have the face and swingpath follow the closest line to the left. (It'd be interesting to see how any of that would pan out on Trackman.)
My sons swing isn’t mechanical. His swing is a combo of Bobby Jones and Sam Snead. Especially his footwork/setup. Ever since he was 5 years old his stand was closed. Everyone kept telling him he was swinging over the top. I found out a few things thing over the years. Any good player that swings OTT (over the top) usually has a somewhat of a closed stance. Grip, cocked wrist, swing path, stance (all are usually unorthodox looking,not mechanical) these all play into what I call hitting the “neutral spot” (club face hitting the the ball square to closed). Putting all these angles together is the key(sweet spot). A player that puts these together usually hits the ball well. And the funny thing is, A NATURAL PLAYER doesn’t really even know how they are getting to the sweet spot. Everything is feeling as odd as the swing might be.
Where's this teaching facility
Tried this move Christo. Working well but I’m hitting a bit of a hook. I’ll say it’s a push hook so some would call it a draw. But it’s a little too exaggerated. Any fix ?
Go even more over the top and move the ball forward an inch! I've been there, brother.
@@MiracleSwingExperience interesting… alright I’ll try it! Thanks the reply !
@@briansurfer8625 If it works you should check out MSE TV! 🙌🏻
Most of the oldies addressed inside the ball or stepped back before hitting so they had more room and flatter clubs helped.
Where is the full video?
Awesome video. Honestly, the one swing that reminds me of Bobby Jones that I see today is Fred Couples. To me, this would be the closest representation of Bobby Jones' swing.
I agree 100%, Jonathan. I just hit drivers and tried to emulate Freddy's rhythm and backswing!!! Two perfect swings IMHO.
@Tyler Hawk I think you're on point. Bobby Jones was swinging a wooden shaft so it was super flexible. The fact that Freddy has that same look says something. I've been watching them both a lot lately!
Bobby Jones was left handed but played righty, so was Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, Moe Norman, Tom Watson, Jack Nicklaus, Johnny Miller, Greg Norman, Jordan Spleth and Phil is a right handed playing Left handed. Do you think there is anything to that? It may be that you'll swing your finest swing with your dominant hand on the end of your club . Your dominant eye has a lot to do with your swing as well. Most benefit goes to a right handed person who is right eye dominant and plays lefty or a Left handed person who is left eye dominant who plays righty.
i've heard all my life..swing inside going back---swing out to in coming down. i always had a inside backswing that stayed inside going through with my hands finish very high (above head). it ruined my golf game for years. i have been trying to go back much more to the outside to get my downswing more across the path and my hands lower at the finish. does this make since? nothing works as i still get stuck underneath, upper body too far back, you name it.... should i go back to taking it back much more inside and looping it back down over the top?
It would feel more natural, right Randy? I'd definitely give it another try and I'd recommend checking out the OTT Miracle Swing video. I explain it in detail and it will make a lot of sense how the old timers swung OTT and smashed it straight!
Ok. I just copied this swing in my living room and it felt so comfortable. I'm really curious how this is going to play out at the range. It just felt so good. I hope I can make this work.
Weeeeel, we're waiting. Ted Knight Caddy Shack. It's been a month.
@@quantumpotential7639 I’ve drastically improved.
How would hit a nice push draw with this method then?
Hi Cristo...I'm struggling to get the video...I did the Freemonth joining of MSE Tv (thanks for that). How do I get from there to watching the OTT video. Must I pay $49.95 to watch the Over the Top video? Can anyone assist...thanks
Bobby Jones swing is by far the best swing to imitate. I've tried them all for 17 years and Bobbies is the easiest and non painfully way to swing. I have arthritis in spine and his allows me to enjoy the game and play well
🏌️
I agree with Jones OTT because his right shoulder actually goes out slightly at the ball which is different than hands over the backswing plane.
Wow! Gary Player looks amazing for 85. Sharp, crisp mind too.
This is not an over the top swing, depending on how you define over the top. It is a leg driven swing and the right hip is leading the flail right shoulder. Obviously that is the correct sequence. In an OTT move the right hip and the right shoulder move down together at the same time and the shoulder is not flail - causing the OTT. I suggest to read Percy Boomer 'On learning golf'.
Hi Christo I too hope you take Gary Players advice and by The Percy Boomer Book as well.
@@thomasfraser9072 I show the book in the video!
How do you define OTT? You're describing a poor OTT move in my opinion. It's OTT in relation to his backswing.
@@MiracleSwingExperience Ok, I was not aware of two different definitions.
I’ve been spending years trying to correct my OTT move. Thank you for confirming what I thought all along!
The move itself is natural. Because the ball is on the ground we have to adjust! Did you see the new instructional video? First month is free with “Freemonth” code at checkout!
@@MiracleSwingExperience I will check it out. Thanks
@@Jerbear67 My friend may I give you some free advice? If you want to really improve your game. Stop watching and listening to so-called people who think they know about golf mechanics. If you want to really improve your game, go subscribe to Steve Pratt on RUclips. You will thank me for the introduction. He knows what he's talking about. Drop me a comment in a few months to let me know how your game has improved. Have a great day, and please stop watching too many so-called RUclips bullshitters know nothing teachers. I never call them coaches, that's because they are not deserving of that title. Mr. Pratt is. You will know once you hear what he teaches, and yes he is a coach. Just as I am.
Its a swing preference ! Its one of the ways to keep your club inside ...its an opposite reaction of your hands going outside.
There are others ways to stay in the slot...
Got hits from your channel for awhile and went ahead and hit your bell. This is dead on stuff here. People talk about swinging over the top and I have no clue what there talking about except I'm pretty sure you can't throw a ball with your shoulders . although I do throw from the shoulder . good to see your light bulb go off. Cheers
If I had to throw a pass to you 50 yards downfield, I'm not gonna throw it sidearm!!! Thanks for watching. You should check out the video, too. You get a free month with code "freemonth"!
There are other coaches who work with more traditional golf moves. The best I found was Jon Reese, PGA, out of Pine Meadow Golf Club in IL.
I do over the top type swing and have no problems hitting the golf ball. The problem with people that slice with OTT is how they come back into the ball from the top of the swing.
Couldn't help but notice how much cupping Jones and others had in the wrist at the top of the swing. Modern instruction tries to force you into a Bowed or flat wrist at the top which requires a lot of manipulation or an appreviated swing with huge shoulder turn, when I started doing swing speed training I noticed my wrist started to bow a lot at the top but it naturally flattened during the transition and produced way more speed than trying to force a flat wrist position from the start
That is very interesting. Of course, Jones had a wooden shaft so that might have had a much different feel in terms of loading and unloading the flex.
I don't classify Jones as "taking it inside". When one turns the torso the left hand has to go back/right and behind UNLESS one artificially forces the hands to go back/right - down the line in the opposite direction - which some people kind've due. So I see Jones taking advantage of the power of the torque of the body. I call this the "Trebuchet Effect In the Golf Swing." A lot like a major league pitcher with the arm being pulled by the lunge forward. Watch the videos of modern-made catapults. With weights, ropes and the laws of physics and torque, those devices can throw a small car quite a distance. Yet the catapult is not moving down the line. It's all centrifugal force generated by the axl - around which is all circle (think waist/shoulders/torso). Our arms are like the rope. Our hands and the club shaft are like that final piece of leather (?) that ends with a "sling" that holds the object.
THe trick, what has challenged me for decades, is to get the feet, legs, hips, shoulders to work in a coordinated fashion so that the "Trebuchet effect" happens optimally. That is, the centrifugal force is maximized by the shaft/clubhead swinging around a circular arc without losing connection and foundation with the hands, elbow and shoulder and the shoulder not losing connection with the hip turn.
I spent my whole youth "clearing the hip" so that the arms and club could pass thru. WRONG. We did not know what we were doing in the 50's and 60's.
In my opinion, Jones is maximizing the Trebuchet Effect - the coiling and uncoiling that delivers great power in the clubhead on the arc.
What lie angle did he play? Anyone know ? I want to replicate
Jones corrects his path by clearing his left shoulder out of the way at the beginning of the downswing. Fred Couples does the same thing. The leg movement is probably having to move with and control a whippy shaft, not sure but I imagine you had to move with shaft. Not sure over the top is the right term. Maybe across the line but that wouldn’t sell any videos.
His release, right hand over left hand, is what I am trying to learn.
I have always admired Mr. Player, he is a great ambassador for the game of golf, and he is right of course, about Boby Jones being amazing/
before ball striking, there so many different ways, like Matthew Wolf, John Daly, Phil, Couples, but,,,, when it comes to the point of ball striking, and follow through, they all look the same. so, we just need to find a back swing which suits us, then finish the ball striking, which is the key point.
Gary Player is simply my favourite human being
Yes, he does make a slight OTT move to get back on path, BUT the KEY IS? He drops it back down and keeps that right elbow in throughout impact-THATS the KEY
Dude this is awesome. Having a look at what people did naturally before there were all these bullshit ‘rules’.
Cricket has similar problems to golf.
Thank you a lot for sharing. Might give elements of this a go as I seem to naturally have a ‘flying elbow’ or whatever you want to call it if I try to make my longest backswing naturally .
Golf was much more instinctual back then!
The thing that most pros don't talk about is roll release v square to square release. You need to know the difference to master golf or get below 5.
Old style swings lasted, few injuries, look at the amount of modern players miss tournaments because of back and neck injuries
Bobby Jones, a swing of beauty
Did that graphic show Gary Player as having 18 Majors?? Uh, nope, that was Jack not Gary
Bobby Jones to me has the most beautiful yet functional swing ever and he is the best player ever to play the game! l watch today's players with the modern swing and l think too much positioning and we are just information overloaded. Mr. Jones's swing is so easy and fluid/relaxed and l don't think he got a bad back from his swing but today's players have problems with ankles, knees, hip shoulders etc and l think the pretty swing they are taught and we all follow the mother duck sadly. l am trying to imitate Mr. Jones's swing and l hope to play like Mr. Jones, well Dreaming is free so l will take that freebie lol
OTT is a shoulder move - the trail shoulder moving towards the target line more than that shoulder moving down at the start of the down swing.
I accidentally discovered that lining up with the trail foot pulled inside (closed stance) a few inches eliminates an over the top swing plane. A few months later I discovered a RUclips video that confirmed this to. The swing plane is naturally inside out, so no slicing the ball.
You threw the ball in the proper direction! Everyone always tries to throw the ball toward the target and you threw it forward and down - the direction you're facing.
OMG! That's very helpful coming from you, my friend. I was always before trying to throw at the target and I just quit doing that because of what this feel like. Thanks!!!
@@MiracleSwingExperience however their is a distinction between throwing the club at the target; then hitting down an imaginary side ball as Overhand Golf teaches.
Also your thought is to feel like the head of your club is hitting down at the actual ball. Isn’t it? Cheers
This makes no sense to me. Calling this an "over the top swing" is incorrect.
Mr Jones remains inside the line all the way through and at no point does he come over the top.
His right elbow is tucked away, his right shoulder is going at the ball from the inside and his club shaft is on plane.
Terminology is important.
Nice call I pointed out that Couples has the same look at the top of the backswing across the line. But if your trying to sell videos. I think we both call bs on this one!!
this a similar thing to what pete cowen calls the "delivery position". in the new "25 minute" video. but, it is the grip secret that is the key to this move.
Bobby Jones was playing golf as an infant..he was swinging that way all his life..seems to me it worked..greatest ever..
Look at Jim Furyks swing why does it work because he flattens out on the down swing
It is the same thing that happens when someone is casting that results in the club face becoming to up right instead of shallowing
OTT.....starting from the INSIDE......and this gets to the LOW LEFT FINISH....
But doesnt the shaft must first be allowed to shallow? Then the OTT...then the "I wish I had two right hands" stuff??
Tiger did his over the top practice swing for years
show a Wild Bill Mehlhorn vid......
Wild Bill Mehlhorn is OTT for sure! I'm not trying to shallow at all. Neither Tiger, nor Morikawa really shallow much and they are the best irons players around!
You can shallow the club from OTT. Flattening and shallowing are very different.
This may seem silly and I'm no swing expert, just a pretty good golfer. Tried a bunch of stuff and studied for years and found what works for me. I don't see anything over-the-top in Jones' golf swing!?!?
Regardless of the swing plane, to me all of that fluidity and "naturalness" comes from Jones willingness to let his left heel come off the ground on the backswing. Snead, Hogan, Nelson and later Palmer and Nicklaus and others all did the same with great success. Today's pro players keep their front foot planted, and some of them develop back problems as a result. I like the older style - let the body turn freely and the power and distance will take care of itself.
You know what it really comes down to is just an athletic motion. It's really hard to teach someone to swing or to get in positions when a swing is only a split second long. If you're not athletic, you might as well forget about playing good golf. You watch Bobby Jones or Ben Hogan. Jack Nicklaus and you can see they do not have any swing. Thoughts? They just swing the golf club in rhythm and tempo in an athletic motion
What about Moe Norman ?
Jones motion was the result of the wooden shafts that he was required to play back then. With their excessive flexing and twisting, the swing had to be smooth and long.
There is OTT for those that keep their pelvis back and an OTT for those that move their pelvis closer to the ball. The way Jones moves his pelvis is why his OTT move did not cause the mother of all slices. I'm not sure this will help folks who are ignorant about how the pelvis moves. Jones's deep right hip movement on the backswing is an important aspect of this.
That is the right answer. For those interested, the best swing description and concept is found in Percy Boomer's 'On learning Golf' (1942)
Arnie and most of his generation were OTT, but still hit the inside quadrant.
Its not a typical over the top swing because he took it far inside. His swing was inside the ball - target line. If he took the club less inside, you could not say he was over the top was he over the top of his backswing well yes he had to be on plane with the downswing. His swing into the ball was perfect.
amen Gary!!!
Jones etc. were still approaching the ball from the inside.
Agreed, but I'm talking about the pattern in relation to his backswing. Do you not see it?
@@MiracleSwingExperience
Well a long time ago I posted this to your "Golden Loop" video in which you were talking about an inside loop;
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08jag80
9 years ago
Some great swings have looped the other way. Example; Jones, Snead, and Palmer, taking the club back inside then looping slightly to square.
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@@08jag81 That's amazing. There's a lot of different ways to swing a golf club. I'm happier hitting it this way for sure! Thanks for being a part of My Swing Evolution!
@@MiracleSwingExperience Would you say this swing is really down the line, being that across would still break the "pain of glass" on the downswing.
@@08jag81 Yes, I still hit a draw with my irons.
Bobby Jones won 13 majors playing part time as an amateur and earning a degree at Harvard. He retired from golf at 27.
I’d quibble about it being OTT since he stays under the plane in the downswing, much like Bruce Lietske and a few others. It’s an inside to outside swing but not the OTT you see on thousands of driving ranges.
Yes its not an over the top swing, the downswing is inside the ball- target line. Bobby describes the over the top swing in one of his books and this isn't over the top.
MALASKA uses over the top too
I need to start digging into his stuff.
I watch the club and not the arms. Not sure if that's correct, but then it doesn't look over-the-top. I wouldn't doubt that this guy has more expertise than me though.
Different ways of skinning cats. Ray Floyd inside then UP then over the top & usually drew the ball.masters champ etc. JIM Furyk outside , up then looped it back INSIDE. Think he got a couple of Majors & Tons of prize money. Find your own way folks
it only OTT if the R shoulder OTT otherwise it 's only different of the way to take the club back. All the players in the video not OTT.
Bobby Jones has his own instructional series that we can watch for free on RUclips. It’s awesome. I’d rather listen to the man himself explain it!
You sir should apologize the young man is doing an excellent job in his journey he interviewed the black knight for crying out in the back lip of the bunker ball nestled in 8" of tall grass and unkept clunks surrounding your ball LOUD 📢, give Lil Ben a brake here he loves the game, lives golf, loves people and is ministerial in his ways of spreading the good news, figuratively and literally Praise God now let us pray 🙏. Come into the sanctuary, have a seat, enjoy a cream soda and a snack, and come to the Holy Father, who has yet to teach you how to properly get into the loop where your one iron comes off the club face with the authority of Jesus. Thanks
Mike Malaska is teaching this.....same thing...
I will have to check out Malaska's stuff. Before when I saw it, it didn't make sense. Now, I bet I'll see it in a different light.
I don't see the ott in Bobby's swing
Is this The exact opposite of how someone like Matthew Wolfe swings the club?
That's a tricky question because I bet his shoulder path is like this but the loop of the club head looks like it's the other direction. Fyurk is the same.
I see a lot of Mike Austin in this swing in terms of the club path in the takeaway, very much to the inside and across the line at the top. MA however re-routes the club near the top of the backswing so that the shaft is much closer to his neck than it would be if he stayed on the plane he starts out on...you could call that a sort of OTT move. The big difference would be Austin's compound pivot, most noticeable from behind. He really had a great weight shift over to the right side vs the Jones and Hogan swing that looks like a center focused turn and can almost look like stack and tilt from behind. Austin also never had the wrist cup at the top as shown here. Both work, ala Couples..MA always said "whatever you take out on the backswing you have to put back on the downswing" I spent years cupping at the top and then tried the Austin way with much better results..one less thing to have to put back on the way down.
How in the world can you consider Bobby Jones’s swing to be OTT? It isn’t. He shallows it and drops it into the slot like any great ball striker.
His hands clearly go over the top
@@rasputin6727from a club path he is inside not over the top.
@@SpudOutdoors video from 1931 he brings his hands over the top and works his right shoulder over under and buggy whips it
@@rasputin6727 you missed what I said and I think that is what is wrong with his videos. He is promoting over the top but never mentions that it still comes inside . It’s not an out to in swing.
@@SpudOutdoors of course the hands work as a u in and over all the legends did it that's still over the top though it stays just on the plane line but a more depending blow. It's a Scottish hybrid mixed with upright. That's the entire concept on the videos
How can you say Jones is over the top...he's far from over the top. Its an inside out swing, there's not an ounce of over the top; at least, as I know it.
You hit the nail on the head "as you know it". Jones swings the club so far to the inside, that even with his over the top move the club his still coming from the inside. But his downswing is definitely over the top in relation to his backswing and that's the point.
@@jonburrows8602 No, the club is so laid off it looks like a modern swing, the right elbow comes in shallowing the path; then its got only one place to go, out and to the ball.
You are not even close to the only person teaching an over-the-top from the inside. Check out Wayne DeFranceso's videos.
Snead had similar move
There's more than 1 way to swing a golf club...
Its all about the match ups...
Everyones body works different, It all goes wrong when you start trying to force out a move unless you spend countless hours upon hours on it...
Jordan Speith is going over the top now too
The Rock..and Lee comeaux tried telling everyone this before you came on the scene pal..look it up...woooooow 😅😅🤣
Yep...Bobby Jones.
not really ott. its inside to on the right plane. beats going under every time.
We can argue OTT, but it's definitely not under!
OTT from the inside is the best explanation
@@ocat1979 Agreed