A Different Path Israel Could Have Taken - and Maybe Still Can
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Before Oct. 7, Israel appeared to many to be sliding into a “one-state reality,” where it had functional control over Gaza and the West Bank, but the Palestinians who lived there were denied full rights. In 2021, a group of hundreds of former senior defense and diplomatic officials in Israel published a report warning that this was a catastrophe - for Israel’s security, its democratic values, its international standing, and its very soul. And they argued that there was another way, that even without a Palestinian “partner for peace,” there was a huge amount Israel could do on its own to create the conditions for a two-state solution to emerge in the future.
Nimrod Novik is a fellow at the Israel Policy Forum and a member of the executive committee of Commanders for Israel’s Security, the group behind the report. He was a senior policy adviser to Shimon Peres when he was prime minister, and was involved in all forms of negotiations with Palestinians and the Arab world.
I wanted to talk to Novik about the plan proposed in the Commanders for Israel’s Security report, and how they might have changed in light of Oct. 7 and the war. We also talk through what the “day after” might look like in Gaza, the immense anger of the Israeli public over the intelligence failure that led up to the attacks, the alternative coalitions building against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and much more.
Mentioned:
“Initiative 2025 (en.cis.org.il/...) ” by Commanders for Israel’s Security
Book Recommendations:
The Back Channel (www.penguinran...) by William J. Burns
Master of the Game (www.penguinran...) by Martin Indyk
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast (www.nytimes.co...) , and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at www.nytimes.co... (www.nytimes.co...) .
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Emefa Agawu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Efim Shapiro.
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Ezra, your shows over the past few week about Israel and Palestine have been incredibly enlightening. You have given folks both perspectives in a rational way, by inviting smart thinkers on both sides of the issue. I've learned a lot. Thanks.
Same
The veils are off, majority of the world - Africa, South America and Middle East, always knew that the Western world are savages and uncivilised, through their actions towards us over decades. Nothing shows this more than Gaza , through the actions of the IOF in Gaza and Western world support thereof, everyone is seeing the truth. Israel is the last Western backed Imperial, racist colonial state, the future is Pro-Palestine = Pro human rights.
It's the vilest thing in the world for one man to sacrifice so many other people for his own personal benefit, if it is true.
An intelligent, reasonable, honest interview.
thank you Nimrod Novik for speaking the truth
Oh, man! You bring in amazing thinkers and speakers! Thank you!❤ And thank you for sharing with us how difficult this is for you on a personal level! ❤
What about the settlements? Would Israel allow Palestinians from the West Bank to establish settlements in Israel? There needs to be parity, which means putting the settlers under Palestinian rule. If they don't like that, they can move back to Israel, or in some cases Brooklyn.
20% of Israel's population is Palestinian Arab. What was it you were saying about "settlements"?
@j.s.c4302 you're dishonest. These Arabs live on land conquered by Israel. They didn't create illegal settlements by stealing Israeli land as Zionist settlers do with Palestinian land on the West Bank.
in 1947 in britain mandert there were 1.2 million Palestinians now in the same area there were 5.5-6 millions Palestinians. in the arab world there was 800 thousandsjewish(with iran+Turkey 950) now there less 50 thousands with iran+Turkey.
the arab have a problamwith jewish no matter what you antisemite say
@@j.s.c4302are you an idiot? The settlers that have been taking the palestinian homes from them for years. FFS goggle israeli settlers. Its still going on in the West Bank as Gaza is being bombed.
Well said @Phil, am sick of the illegal Israeli settlers.
Just want to thank Ezra for all of the conversations on Israel and Palestine since the atrocities on October 7th. All of this insight, all of this nuance, all of this compassion. It gives me hope in what feels like a hopeless time.
I think it is too one-sided, the conflict is conducted with those without compassion. Ezra should host conversations with those sorts of people.
At last! An Israeli who actually has a plan that sounds workable. Thanks.
More people should listen to this podcast. So much truth it in. I hope this will be shared under Israelis as well.
More NY Times readers should be subscribing to your podcast. Your observations are thought provoking in ways I could not have imagined.
As a longtime supporter of Israel, the current fiasco in Gaza has made it very difficult for individuals with firsthand knowledge of Israeli politics to make the case that Israel warrants the support of fair-minded US citizens.
A very informative and illuminating episode. Thanks for what you do in your little way for humanity. We still have hope.
Why are Israeli Govts from 1948 not happy with the State of Israel being the State of Israel ,.
Why does the Govt of Israel want more? And more ? And more ?
And will use whatever means to get expansion towards its conceptual Greater Israel.
This is evidential factual history which comenced immediately on Israeli statehood & continued proloñged criminal Rule of Occupation of Palestinian Territories
A two state solution is impossible. Nimrod isn’t being serious. Jewish people will have to agree to live with other religions peacefully in one multi-ethnic state. The settlements have made land swaps for 2 states impossible.
@@nicknamenine5937Afrikaans agree with you
20% of israel's population (note that Palestinians from West bank and Gaza are not Israelis) are already non Jewish and they live peacefully with one another. Also the Jews themselves in Israel are already multi-ethnic. You have Jews who originated from Europe/US, middle east, north Africa, Ethiopia, India, and more..
We do live with other religions... Look at our demographics. That's actually a principle value... We have muslims (85% of the 2 million arab population), druze christians samaritans... If you want to compare, The christians don't do so well in the palestinian territories it seems. Half of them fled Gaza when Hamas came to power, and of course, no jews in P controlled areas
It's frightenning to realize how far main stream media is from this testimonial.
Tragic
I took note of Mr Novik's analysis of the successful strategy of Netanyahu in the Supreme Court issue. Different minor groups supported him simply because of the prospect of getting what they wanted from the Supreme Court. It is similar to the Donald Trump strategy here in the United States, though implemented differently.
Very smart guy. It's comendable that of all people a person associated with the security community is able to speak truthfully about the situation
Better education, free movement, better living conditions could have allayed a lot of this.
Excellent podcast.Tks to Mr. Klein and Mr Novik.My knowledge of Israeli/Palestine increased substantially.Will be following events more closely. Rick/78/Seattle
Good people still there
Great Interview! Good to see that there are sensible Israelis that know that security for the Israelis will only come with liberation of the Palestinians...
Thank you for providing this point of view. Very helpful to hear.
Wow, this is an amazing intellectually honest and insightful discussion on so much of what is in the news now. I've been following in-depth on the Pal-Isr topic for decades and I'm solidly pro-Pal, and in all that time never have I heard such a clear and good analysis from the pro-Isr...li side. Congrats on your excellent pod-cast - much recommended!
Really informative. Thank you.
13:34 “separation“ in Afrikaners is apartheid. The force of history will be driven by Palestinian, self-determination, and Israeli search for justification of the need to be seen as indigenous to Palestine. The interviewee clearly identifies the search for rights will not disappear in the hearts of Palestinians, nor search for justification in the heart of Israelis.
I am anxiously awaiting his formula for changing the machine like arrival at catastrophe
14:40 galloping, annexation: amazingly accurate phrase…
16:27 I do love the honesty of the interviewee. “We Hold most of the cards“. With those cards in hand Netanyahu has chosen annexation and nullification of Palestinian rights.
18:00 so the Palestinian peoples perception of the Palestinian authority today wasn’t always “Vichy” And the interviewee asserts there was Palestinian pride. So this fall well, short of independence or autonomy, but without legitimacy, it’s natural, then that Hamas has filled the vacuum..
20:08 I didn’t know Israel is “choking” The PA by withholding funds owed them
57:34 i’d really like to believe that the interview is correct, and that the repeated victories by Netanyahu are a reflection of general political issues, and not the position of crushing the Palestinians and annexing their land. I really want to believe that, because otherwise, this is truly a hopeless catastrophic quagmire.
I wish you had asked Nimrod whether the phenomenon of Netanyahu indicates a fatal flaw in the Israeli system that needs to be fixed.
The fatal flaw is the ever increasing indoctrination of the Israeli public. The rubbish we're fed by IDF spokespeople and ambassadors is the same stuff spoonfed to them daily.
That this country is out to get them, and that country is going to invade.
It's the treatment of the Palestinians that brought the fear and paranoia, knowing they're in the wrong and long overdue 'the reckoning' for their actions. The leaders know there is a price the country is going to have to pay one day when the butcher's bill comes due.
It seems to be a fatal flaw in the Jewish Israeli collective psyche.
Klein managed to not ruin this interview with long self-indulgant questions. A great guest.
Israel saw Oct 7 , 2022 as an opportunity to its final 50 year objective to depopulate Gaza .. they will be successful
I pray that’s not the case even though it looks possible
And what do you think would happen when those people who have seen their entire families killed go into neighboring countries? Israel would be surrounded by terrorists on all sides in 10 years time.
Thanks Ezra. Thanks for being honest with your emotions.
Israël has caused so much harm to its own people, and the horrors towards the Palestinians, make the Jews unsafe in the world.
Look forward to hearing this podcast when I can. Thank you so much for your podcasts! It helps me learn as much about this conflict and I don't feel alone in my struggles in dealing with all this emotionally. I would request that you have Tom Friedman on your podcast. Tom and you are my favorite sources to turn to regarding the events in the Middle East.
Good idea. And then Ezra can ask Thomas Friedman about this episode described in Friedman's NYT article "Foreign Affairs; Forgive and Forget" on August 11, 1998:
"In May, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright met with the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat in London, presented them with a carefully balanced U.S. peace plan and told them each they had until the next week to say yes. If they did, the President himself would oversee the opening of final-status talks between them. If they said no, reporters were told, the U.S. would make clear publicly its plan and who was blocking it. Mr. Arafat said yes, Mr. Netanyahu said no."
Ezra, please ask Tom: did this happen or not?
@@robertmusil5831 Merely for full disclosure, that article concludes: 'Ms. Albright has barely been heard from on this issue since. Is Mr. Arafat not living up to his yes? Is Mr. Netanyahu being obstinate? Is the U.S. peace plan still operative? Aw, just forget it.'
Writing from Australia and keenly following events in Gaza, may I say the tone, the restraint and the intelligence apparent in your show has lifted me. I am not Jewish but I have many Jewish friends and I feel that Israel did not have a Proper Friend to step in and save her from her own grief and anger at the critical moment. Rather like taking the car keys offf a mate who is blind drunk and wants to go for a drive, I feel all those leaders who commiserated with you actually let Israel down. Someone should have said
"Israel, you're not gonna like this, but I have your Gun and I've hidden it... you're gonna get it back but not today. You're angry you're grieving and you're not in any fit state to make any decisions, We got time to think this through but first you gotta calm down, so no Gun, not tonight mate. Go and bury your dead and show the River Jordan how to cry. And after we'll decide together how we're gonna fix the devils who did this, I promise you".
Israel was presented with a Gigantic Provocation, yes. But strange as it sounds, it is because of that intense provocation that a Proper Friend could have handled Israel wisely, and steered her towards taking a golden opportunity to win worthy applause and respect worldwide for holding your fire and seeking alternative solutions. Coz what you're doing now is only convincing the world that you are worse savages than those devils behind Oct.7th.
Thank you for putting the human respect back into an arena where so far there is only anger and noise and grief.
Would this Proper Friend have taken up arms to protect the survivors of Oct 7 while they grieved, or would this Friend just go home with the keys, maybe leaving the door open behind them?
Let's try this analogy. Israel is like an aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean. The aircraft (diaspora) are in the air when the ship is attack and sunk. The aircraft are now doomed without refuelling abilities. If Israel existed prior to WW2 there would probably not have been a Holocaust since the Jews would have had some place to go. Few countries, Australia and Canada included, opened their doors to those Jewish refugees.
Post Oct 7 little has changed when we watch the huge increase in antisemitism in our respective countries and many others. Before advising Israel on how to conduct herself, we should first clean up our own respective countries.
As for the "worse savages" label, I think it should go to Egypt, Turkey, and other Islamic states that refused to take in the Gazans instead of leaving them in place to further their cause.
7/10 is sounding more like a false flag. How was the wall taken down without a reaction for 7 hours, when we have all watched videos of the wall sensors. Take the entire aircraft back to Europe for repair. It was their problem first. 70 years has just show the european Jewish Problem has not been solves by this experiment of the Israli state. Its a zionist problem not a judaism problem. Make the jews go back to the countries they came from and those that want to stay, can stay under an one stay palestinian rule.
I pray 🙏 for peace ✌️ in this world 🌎 may god help us all Aminah yarahbi ❤❤🎉🎉
Ah, but which God - most of the ones I've heard, just make things worst.
Why not try a secular solution, with God a private matter?
Damn, ya'll are uploading this podcast real early in the morning! But as usual, great content!
Thank you!!!
Excellent
Informstive information for knowledge seekers listening is an important asset for acquiring knowledge. Continue listening for better understanding knowledge for better conclusions .
Divide and conquer was always Netanyahu’s game. He wanted the whole pie for Israel. Look at what this man and his cronies has done to the Palestinians and the moral standing of Israel. God bless Jews for Peace and all Jewish people like Chomsky Ilian Pappe and many other who have stood with their values against this evil man. I hope constructive non confidence can happen soon for both sides if fairness and justice can prevail for Israel’s sake too. I have never seen such disappointment and dislike directed to Israel and the U,S,A, for this nightmare.f
The Palestinians have turned down at two states solutions at three times. Why do you keep denying that?
I found this thought provoking.
I come from South Africa so Apartheid has a very specific meaning for me. You mentioned Israel, the future and Apartheid.
Please explain this in fuller detail.
Should the Palestinians not also do more to eradicate the indoctrination of Jew hating?
An honest detailed incite. Bravo.
Palestinians will not allow another manager of the Gaza Strip .. a ceasefire is a start , but without a solution to the blockade , region will he back to the conditions pre october 7 that lead us to today .. besides it's obvious going forward , Israel will section off certain region of North Gaza as security zone , further shrinking the already limited space of 2M people ..
Incredible....i have of course heard of annexations, but no idea of the reality!!! This guy sounds like he knows what he is talking about! A reasonable person!
This is not helpful. It leaves the Palestinians out. They have no responsibility over their actions and beliefs.
What's missing from this discussion is what Israel expects from a Palestinian state they can support. My suggestion is written in article 6 of the Hamas Charter. Peoples of all faith or no faith, living in peace and posterity under the nourishing wing of Allah. After all the only reason for Israel is peace and prosperity of Jews in all of the world. Especially in its back yard. Give the Jewish settlements to Palestine and make them prove they are welcomed.
They will have to get rid of the current Israeli government and schools systems, they need a third party no European or American in there as a Government oversight or transitional government if you want it to work. Too many Israeli ppl have spoken out as genocidal maniacs. Hamas Charter is anti zionist not anti judaish. Israelis currently just show themselves as monsters. Maybe send all the jews back to Germany for a state and not make them the Arabs problem. Remember the state of Israel was the solution to the Jewish problem of Europe.
A different path america could have taken but can’t anymore
Same in Ukraine with feckless Biden.
Could a UN protectorate state uniting Gaza and the West Bank be established to overcome the absence of viable leadership? It would take many years, but it could stop the violence, get Israel out of these lands and allow development both economically and politically. Perhaps we're looking for solutions now that simply do not have a basis for success and expect them to be in place relatively soon. Maybe the UN, with international support, could act as a presence for basic services and could help develop a democratic body to handle first basic services and eventually a body politic free of Israel. There would also have to be a trustworthy strong presence to prevent the rise of armed groups that would work against a healthy state.
Unfortunately, the UN has a very bad peace keeping record.
That’s scenario is as likely as the UN sending peacekeepers to Iraq.
Yes and no. What you describe is technically possible. It would probably work, or at least work better than what we have now. But as far as I understand UN politics, it is utterly impossible, it could never happen.
Yes, it's possible. Israel's war on Hamas is being waged using the Dahiya doctrine, which breaks the UN law on proportionality, using the language and violence of genocide, causing mass displacement of people, death and injury to non-combatants (half of which are children), and creating conditions which are likely to either destroy the vast majority of Palestinians or cause their displacement into Egypt (i.e. starvation tactics - lack of water & medicine) - which is a real and urgent reason for the UN to send in peacekeepers - ignoring the wishes of the state of Israel.
A UN protectorate starts there, with the US withdrawing its sole objection from resolution 99 and tougher resolutions to follow. I hope to see the beginning of this by the end of the year. You are correct that this is the only realistic chance for a long term peace and a two state solution.
If this nimrodguy and his commander buddies would have endedNetanyahu years ago, his idea might have had a chance. But the longer Netanyahu is in charge, the deeper the hole Israel digs for itself. It's already close to becoming an inescapable abyss.
Palestinians should govern Palestinians - others should administrate, though ... preferably the UN.
Generals
Wow!
PA said they do not want Israel. Israel knows what he will become like now that's why they did what they have done in advance! U said it so easily to have 2 states but what is the action? Everybody knows the answer but how do you get there? West Bank is too close to Israel, PA said he knows Israel cannot survive that border that's why the wanted 100% of West Bank.
Interesting
GREAT questions on the power of the grief of the people of Gaza.
👏🏼👏🏼General Novik is a knowledgeable policymaker and applaud this opportunity 👏🏼👏🏼Ezra Klein provided me to understand the ins and outs of Israeli-Arabic conflict in the ancient Philistea👏🏼👏🏼The two books suggested hints that👏🏼👏🏼the Peace solution👏🏼is having two people to tango. 💥💥💥Take account however that neither Hassidim nor Jihadim dance with opposite sex, all remains castles in the air, ie more of the same as public opinion is mercurial. Thanks Ezra. 59:26
Ezra, your podcast is extremely educational for people who cares about Israel and Jewish survival.
The last guest shows how polarized the Israelis are. Unfortunately neither left or right brings any new perspectives only accusations against each other and no results . The only great accomplishment that happened over many years was Abraham , accord.
Failing political leaders the world over often resort to international diplomacy for quick wins. The Abraham accords does NOTHING to help the immense problems described in this excellent podcast.
❤️
good to hear there's a plan
Victims are always feared for their potential vengeance. This is so for many white views of Black people. Yet, what does the historical record tell us?
A different path the left could’ve taken - stop blaming the victim.
Thanks for another excellent conversation.
I have only a single point of pushback or counter argument to an interlocutor that I otherwise agree with.
When Novik explains why he believes that a two-state solution is eventually inevitable (12:00 to 13:15) he says that the idea that Israelis would agree to grant palestinians equal rights is simply impossible. Because it would result in a state where israeli jews are not the majority population in that state. So it sounds to me that he's saying that Israel can never, ever, be a full democracy: it's existance is predicated on palestinians not having full and equal rights.
I disagree. I think that this is morally a shaky or even indefensible position. I also think that it is overly pessimistic. The arguments for equal rights are better than the arguments for blood and soil ethnic nationalism, not just in Israel but everywhere. White anglo-saxon protestants are no longer the majority in USA, and it still stands. South african citizens have equal rights (more or less) and South Africa hasn't dissolved or ceased to exist as a nation. Historically we have granted suffrage and emancipation to one group after another, because in the debate of "Should Women have Equal Rights under the Law?" the arguments for have tended to win, because they are the better arguments. And men - alone - voted to give women the right to vote.
I believe that eventually the voting population of Israel will see that equal rights for palestinians is more important to the survival of Israel as a state, than having jewish citizens in parliamentary majority. (Unless Israel devolves into a full military dictatorship under some populist strongman: that is also a possibility.) I don't know if this will take another 20 years, or another 200. But I also don't think any kind of two-state solution will be possible in that time. So in the fullness of time, I believe that some kind of one-state solution is not only possible, but likely.
It's not a dodge. I supported Oslo until it became very clear that the Palestinians would not let go of terrorism. Maybe you are too young to remember that they started suicide bombings while we were trying to implement the Oslo agreement.
Who will govern Gaza is a good question. The Palestinian Authority is not much better than Hamas. They definitely don't care about the people if we want peace we need Palestinian leadership that care about the people, not just lining their own pockets, and terrorism.
Tante Ruth, you are clearly supporting a genocide because you are not aware that the current population of palestinians . the oldest are more likely half your age.
@@PHlophe She made a good point and you have no business calling her "Tante".
End the occupation and Israel will have peace, prosperity, security and partnership with all countries continue occupation they will resist and u would do the same.there is lack of leadership for the times we are in.
@@mahadahmed6375first of all, Israel ended the occupation in Gaza in 2006, all they got was a worse situation. Second, the Palestinians have been offered a two state solution multiple times, and refused it. So you are completely wrong.
Aj the lectures on what Israel should've done with a violent islamist neighbour who've rejected every peace deals and violent agreed upon deals
A one state reality and a two state reality will not work either. The root issue is the significant difference in functioning capability between the two parties. Functioning capabiliy includes economic, governance, human rights and education.
A two state solution might work if one state is on one continent and the other is on another continent.
In the past few years, there has been some excellent work done on a **Confederation of two sovereign states**. It seems to take the best aspects of both a one state and two state solution. Do a web find on it for more info.
The difference in functioning capability between the two parties has everything to do with US funding and colonialism.
The truth the people in the Military industrial complex don’t want to here
What happened to fair and balanced??
Peace only comes between sovereign nations. You are talking about nation building. Can you do a show on successful nation building? What would a successful Palestinian state look like? There would be a huge amount of money in the west for such an effort.
Once again the Jewish question must be resolved.
Your sentence has been corrected for clarity and grammar:
"Thirty minutes into the video, all I hear is how the Likud government and the settlers destroyed peace. Well, they have not helped much, I agree. But two missing points make this video shallow. One is the education system, both under Hamas in Gaza and the PA in the West Bank, which still teaches children horrible things about Jews and that Israel should not exist. The second point is that Hamas was established to stop the peace process and was very successful in doing so, wreaking havoc in Israeli cities with a massive bombing campaign. The result was a rise of the right. As long as the Palestinian dream of erasing Israel from the map exists, a two-state solution-one that wants peace and the other that wants to destroy it-will not work."
Quite clearly so. But Mrr. Yahu! would have none a that, now could he. They funded him billions n expected miracles in Gaza but got stuck with a booby prize.
😂😂😂Israel want's even fair nor was they honest about 2 states back during the Oslo time and dtill Palestinians settled for only 20% back then. And now many talking about "greater Israel " and US still to this time backing apartheid and occupation, get real!
Israel never wanted a 2 state solution.
you dont know history
That may be true for some Israelis, but in general Israelis have throughout history been more open to it than Palestinians. Palestinians have rejected "two-state-solution" deals in the past, Israel has never. I hear a lot of rethoric from the Palestinians that they want "all of it". If there are enough people who continue to feel they have the right to fight against the "occupation" by any means necessary even after a two state solution has been agreed upon, it makes it too much of a security threat.
palestines want to be ireland rather than puerto rico and the modern deals offered are deals you get in a pawn shop, no one goes into a pawn shop and leaves happy, if you can read and apply yourself you will get it not sure you can. @@thewkovacs316
Ezra, your balanced reporting on this issue. If you are in touch with Bari Weiss, maybe tell her to give her head a shake and get over her Bibi Fangirl phase.
What apartheid? So tired of hearing this. It’s ridiculous
The war is Gaza exposed to the world that there is no solution in the near future to the conflict, Palestinians don't want a two state solution, they still believe that all Palestine is theirs, and Israel won't except another terrorist state on it's borders. The only solution for Gaza after the war is to close it down, make it a safe zone for Israel and relocate the Palestinians to other countries, Qatar seems to be a great solution. None of palestinians that used to live in Gaza will refuse this offer, and those who refuse are welcomed to stay. Relocating Gazan's will give them a much better life, save them from Hamas and Israel wars and solve half of the problem in the region. There is no future to Palestinians in Gaza, unless they are willing to live in a constant war zone.
In the current conflict we see westerners just blather on with their opinions without really understanding the Middle East. Firstly, the region is historically tribal. Secondly there is a "blood-land" element to the traditions of the region. Basically the Arabs see the Palestinians as "of the blood" ie religiously, but without their land, sort of like being the black sheep of the family..and the Palestinians haven't done themselves any favours by creating their image of troublemaker of the region : understand the history of Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and you'll understand why there is much talk but little support among the Arab states to accept Palestinians. It's tragic not to be wanted but that is the reality. Israel forged ahead at Independence, the Arabs did not, through bad choices and bad luck. Finally, it rankles the Arab world that a successful, modern, democratic state exists in the Middle East. There are 22 Arab-Muslim states, who decry that a single state exist for the Jews.
Israel as the occupier and the economic, military and political dominant power in Israel Palestine it's upon Israel to initiate, facilitate and ensure a palestinian state along international law, UN security resolution 242 is established just like how the english empire ended slavery, colonialism etc slaves or the countries under colonialism didnt end it. Using hamas and other petty excuses to oppress Palestinians is inexcusable
Since day 1never was a 2 state solucion
I am at minute 28...how come Netanyahu is still the PM? He appears to be the kingpin of what's happened since Oct 7.
@omurtasar7852 He's in power because he's a sociopath master manipulator. He lies & fools everyone, especially Israelis. Since 10/7, he lied to the world about "beheaded babies" (proven a lie), about "we were surprised" (they knew Hamas' 40-page PLAN but THEY IGNORED IT - did he ignore them to force a war?), he says "Israel has a right to defend itself" (but don't Palestinians, and defending does not mean butchering civilians). HE'S A CRIMINAL LIAR.
I didnt see any video or photo evidence as yet as to what happened during '10/7' in one of the most surveilled places on earth,where is it plz?😮
the gov of israel may b unpopular but even before the 6th the polls show that the populations view was moving to the right politically and anti arab and anti palistinian . the population did after all vote in this very right wing governing coalition
Shouldn't the question be who willl the Paletinian people choose to lead them....how can we hope for any change if the Palestinian people themselves have no say in their future?
You mentioned Ask Me Anything, but you didn't say WHEN it will be broadcast, WHERE, and the DEADLINE for questions. I searched the links you shared (one of which is a dead link), but could not find that info. Would be helpful if you said it here -- don't assume everyone watching this video religiously watches all your videos, in order, and has already heard your announcement about the AMA.. This vid just came up in my feed.
The Palestinians are getting the same compassion they showed on October 7th . Going back to the 1920s they attacked and killed Jews, sided with the Nazis and while it is true that the Israelis do not have clean hands post 1948 the Palestinians have also engaged in massacres of Civilians (Munich , Achille Lauro , Maalot , Passover bombing and others_} . Id the Palestinians choose to keep hostages rather than ensuring that the bombing ceases then the death, so their women and children is on them. They could have changed their fate by choosing the 2 State solution from 1947 (as per the UN} and onwards as late as 2008. They still do not accept that path and so no matter how many people post or march they will have no future, no stability, no peace and no state until climate change takes them out. NOTE- stop trying to rewrite history as the Jewish Kingdom of Israel existed before Palestinians ever existed, the so-called European Jews were forcibly expelled by the Romans and most of Israelis descend from those that remained in the region. Accordingly the Israelis and Jews are the true indigenous people, so their claim is better than the Palestinians and throwing around slogans or terms like settlers or colonizers are not just not based on actual history but also do nothing to change the path for the Palestinians ( as only they can change that path} .
❤ISREAL MUF REMEMBER MOSES ISREAK MUST BE OBIEDENT TO JESUS AND GOD THE FATHER
JESUS ONLY CAN BRING PEACE 😮
Dream a little dream…
It's surprising that voting patterns aren't reflecting Israeli opinion stances on the Palestinians. I assumed it was only fringe parties that were voted in based on non-security and political conflict issues.
Israeli Arabs have citizen rights and obligations equal to the Jewish population, but Arabs mostly live in towns in which there are no Jews, which is their choice. The same occurs in Area C in the West Bank, where Jews live and have their own town councils in Jewish towns, like Ariel and Efrat, and Arabs live in their villages, like Abdallah Ibraham, with their town council. This concept can be expanded to larger territories. Gaza can establish town councils, too, for full local government, perhaps with the mayor being from the traditional head family. As in Israel's current Arab localities, it is usually the head family that leads the local council, within the overall national government.
This is not true. Non Jews have no rights to buy property. So they cannot acquire one outside their place of birth. Anyone who has visited their areas first notice the state of the roads, the public services etc. Non Jewish areas get 1/5th of the finance of Jewish areas. Job opportunities are highly restricted almost Jewish business will not employ them. Go see!
Have you listened to the Martyr Made Podcast?
response to the title of this vid: why would they?
Palestinians have had and still have an above their geo-political weight to bring peace if they choose it... But the majority want "from the river to sea", where Israel and the Jews that live there should be made to disappear... More than any other obstacle, including the Settlers, the Shas party, and the current right-wing government that has exploited the Palestinian lack of support for the two-state solution, it is the not-so-secret desire held by the majority of Palestinians to "resist", and to fulfill a prophesized downfall of Jews in Israel. PLO leader Arafat knew this and backed out of the best chance for a two-state offer given to the Palestinian people. If and when the Palestinians truly want peace, no Settler settlement in the West Bank or anywhere else will be safe from the Israeli bulldozers. But as Golda Meir stated, "When the Palestinians love their children more than their hatred of Jews there will be a chance for peace".
Bret, Israeli right-wing talking points are not facts. Perhaps you would accept Christian Palestinians' thoughts on what "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" means? If so, ask your search engine.
Twisting a beautiful anti-apartheid phrase into a call for genocide is not just warped, but stupid. Think about it yourself: Do white supremacists shout flowery phrases? Or is it "Jews will not replace us"? People with fugly hearts use fugly phrases.
BS. You hear what you want to here
Perhaps the Palestinians will appoint an all female governing council. This would enable them to find sensible, practical solutions to their immediate problems. Maybe buy the Baja peninsula and give it to them for their new homeland.
And why new homeland? They are at home Freddy.
not according to the jews@@BGTIvan1
Kissinger????
If I were a Jew with a family in Israel, I would move to the US where most Jews live. Zionism does not make sense to me.
If you had millennia of pogroms, real genocide and abuse wherever and whenever locals took against you just for who you are, as Jews have, you may think differently.
Israel has 2% of the ME land - and if flawed, the only democracy there.
There have been far worst mass killings, injustices all over the world since WW2
Who else attracts mass marches, opposition, attacks? I wonder why?
I lived in both. Israel feels safer to me as a jew than the US.
At least in Israel, if worst comes to worst, we are able to put up a fight. In the US, if things change politically, jews would be completely helpless.
@@TheShacharZiv In Israel, you are the aggressors in a centuries-long fight to crush a group of innocent people for no particular reason. Stop acting like a victim.
they are surrounded by radical islamists wanting them dead. @@Bringadingus
Are you authorized to issue an American citizenship to all Israeli Jews? The US closed its doors to Jews in the 1930s hence German Jews like my grandparents had no other place to go after the Nazis took power, hence today their descendants have only an Israeli citizenship (few have European, depending on immigration policies regarding grandparents). Many Israelis would love living in the States if they could, but they can't.
".... coalitions building
against Netanyahoo...:
What would these
coalitions do that was
different from what
" B. N. " is doing now ?
How can any good
come from all this
HATE ?
Decades and decades....
Half way through the
video / conversation :
still hoping.....
75 years hoping hasn't
brought progress...
can we still hope ?
😢🤔🦉😢📖🤔😢
🇬🇧🌹🎄🎼🌈👍🇬🇧
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Palestinians have populist leaders who have continuously wanted to take all of Israel despite never being so as an independent Muslim country. You can condemn Israeli policies all you want but due to Pan Arabism, the Palestinian side won’t want to discuss unless they have violence against Jews or the whole country. Saudi has engaged in peaceful talks, but Palestinian Territories won’t and their responsibility in this has never been brought up
Read more. Gaza described as open air prison. No free movement between Gaza and WB....
exactly ...
Magical thinking and naive
We gotta put out good ideas out there and give people with good intentions some hope.
better then u no brain
Nimrod stated that Arabs in Gaza and West bank have different aspiration from the Jews in Israel which is his imperative for 2 states. He failed to mention Israeli Arabs. I have 2questions:
1) What are the true aspirations of the Arabs in Gaza and West bank?
2) Are they different from the Arabs in Israel?
1: just a guess, but I think the longer this horror is going on the more Arabs in Gaza would want to curse Israelis to Hell and back.
2: from what I understand Israeli Arabs have really tried to partake in Israeli politics.
Most Israeli Arabs are for a two state solution, in which they remain citizens of Israel.
The only solution is a state of 2 ethnicities as federal state maybe
I'm not asking about solution but about aspiration which the guest claims differs between Jews and Arabs. I guess the Jews aspire to become a light for nations and belive best tool for it is a modern state guaranteeing security, equality of all citizens before court of justice... a western democracy... western social freedoms for all...
In this sense I'm asking what the Arab aspirations are and in what respect they differ from the Jews?
@@sheleg17one cannot just want a state - the kind of state is an important consideration.
I pray for Israelis to navigate their ways out for preserving and protecting their homeland with the divine wisdoms as the peace keepers living side by side with Palestinians. God promised in Proverb His people will gain favors with their enemies at the gate.
Joanne, and what about Palestinians.
@@PHlophe i had Palestinans in mind when I made that comment. Can't you see? I am concerned that feeling of hostilities between them that supercede their concerns for the welfare of their children. For their future, I hope they seek peace. They have the same goals if they think about it.
Israel relying on " Devine wisdom "... you mean to USA backing 🤔
why is it okay for all the out-siders of Israel to suggest their take on what should be done. is the broad government coalition not enough? not enough smart, talented, and mostly experienced leaders in this coalition?? doesn't Israel has other knowledgeable agencies that participate in the important rooms?? not enough agencies from around the world?? I guess not. not for you NYT. you are the best of the best. from the outside you're able to get to a better conclusion. good for you skippy
Yeah, countries should never ever comment on geopolitics, right? Not even in cases where we fund those wars with tax dollars? Who are we to think about the wars we fund?
Didn't we took control of germany and japan?
For a short time.
@@nicknamenine5937 Not that short.
You seem able to ignore the genocide. There will be no one to govern in Gaza when Israel's defense policy is played out. We've seen this before in Germany.
Julie, before we saw that in Germany, we witnessed it in Namibia . the first genocide by the germans and then the rest of EU powers was within the african continent. we know all too well how this feels .And as a descendant of a few of the victims , till this day i am haunted by it
Your guest is not terribly insightful. If a cop came to a household and found a woman with obvious repeated massive injuries, would the cop leave the abusive husband in charge? ANYBODY who accepts "Israel is in charge" is aiding and abetting in EXACTLY the same way the above hypothetical cop would be as he whistled on his way back to his squad car, ignoring the resuming screams....