Question about ball potentially going out of play on the throw to 1B on 1st clip; runner would get 3rd. 2 base award from time of throw, and at time of throw he was not on 2nd base, he was short of 2nd starting to return as he saw it was going to be caught. For play where 1B jumps, catches ball then lands in front of the bag "blocking" it, that is an Out - he has possession, therefore can be in front of the runner. Fielder is given some allowance to move to where he needs to be to make a play on the ball. 1B is pretty good, good leap to catch the off-target throw and good catch off the bounce on the appeal play.
Even if he was on 2B at time of throw, that base was not legally obtained because he didn't tag. So the award would be from the last legally obtained base (1B) regardless.
@@ericjohannsen if runner is between 2nd & 3rd and did not retreat towards 1st (from 2nd)-then the 2-base award would give him home. BUT, if he then retreats to re-touch 1st, you change the award to 3rd. Whew…
@@MwD676 The award is always from the last base legally obtained. The position of the runner doesn't matter at all if he failed to tag up because the last base he gained title to is 1B. If the ball was dropped instead of caught, the last base obtained would be the last one he touched.
That's an interesting issue. As an umpire, you don't tell a team if a player failed to tag up or not. It's an appeal play and they need to know that. So if the ball goes out of play and the runner chooses to not return to first to tag up, instead just takes the base award, the defense can still get the out (in NFHS even during a dead ball.) So in that situation, if the runner is between 2nd and 3rd, but did not tag up at 1st, wouldn't sending him to 3rd simply alert the runner that he didn't tag up? He did actually achieve 2nd right? Obviously can be called out on appeal, but let's say he attempts to tag up on a ball deep into right field but leaves first a little early...then he gets to 2nd and rounds second base, but at that time, the cutoff fielder throws the ball to the pitcher and it goes out of play. We'd send him home on that out of play throw, we wouldn't announce that he didn't tag up, so we need to send him to 3rd. We send that runner home and it's up to the defense to appeal the runner leaving first early. If they don't appeal, then he did achieve 2nd by virtue of the defense not seeing and properly appealing the infraction. Am I making any sense here?
I think he meant gave a pathway to the base without obstruction, like in a catcher blocking or not the home plate. But I disagree. Runner had to reduce speed because the fielder was actually blocking the way jumping for the ball. NHFS: OBS, others: out.
He did not hinder or impede. F3 is literally in the air and the entire base is available if the runner slides. Runner does not slow down or change directions. Once F3 has the ball he is clear to land in the path and does so. Nice play kid.
Trick question? Maybe? Doesn’t matter where the ball comes from if it goes out of play. Fielder=2 bases pitched ball= 1 base. On the play at 1st he is out. 1st baseman making play on ball up line he went to play the ball, catch and tag. Same thing as with a catcher at home fielding a ball got to give access to base but free to catch and tag anywhere the ball is thrown.
A fine line here, but no obstruction! F3 was properly positioned on the bag when he jumped to make the catch. At the high point of the jump when he gained possession of the ball, BR still had full access to the bag. After gaining possession of the ball, the momentum of his jump made him land between BR and 1B. But, at this point he had possession of the ball and made the tag. This was a legal tag. It is also a tough call to judge when blue has to do it in real time.
If BR keeps running straight at full speed, he makes contact with F3 while F3 is in the air. He slows to prevent contact with (and potential injury to) F3. That makes this an easy OBS (Fed rules, of course.)
Is that Sparta, NJ? Near me, then. I have the play in question as an out. The runner is slowing down as he approaches in view of the fielder's blocking his path. However, as the fielder does so, he is first waiting for the throw to reach him, and then he has the ball while waiting for the runner to get there. I don't think the fielder touches 1B for the force-out before the runner gets there, but he still has the right to tag him, which he does, albeit in unorthodox style. As to what the other commenters are saying, that's interesting about Fed rules. Could this game have been played by Fed rules? Could've been Sparta High School, and NJ is a Fed state AFAIK. Does Fed have any exception regarding obstruction specifically at 1B? Like maybe it doesn't apply when the runner is coming from the fair-ball side of the line?
Possession of the ball, no obstruction. First play would be runner to 3rd if it had gone out of play. Time of Throw award, as all outfield throws are considered the same as a second throw in the infield.
Question for you - why are you distinguishing between Fed and OBR for the call of Obstruction here? I could understand when discussing whether it is delayed dead ball or immediate, but why would you distinguish between the rule set for WHY this is obstruction or not? Thanks ahead of time!
@lanem4304 Fed (nfhs) has no provision allowing a fielder to move into the path of the runner in order to catch a throw. OBR does. In Fed, you must have possession of the ball before you can block access to a base. In OBR it's more nuanced.
@@hm51008 It is specifically a NFHS distinction. In all other rule sets I know of the runner is out because the fielder can obstruct if in the act of fielding a thrown ball.
Why would it be obstruction? The first baseman has the ball. for those that say go frame by frame at 1:43, f3 has the ball in glove, prior to the runner making any adjustment or f3 being in front of the runner without the ball. As soon as the fielder went up the runner should have slide to not make such an easy tag.
@postgamebreakdown the rules changed within 11 months, so this comment's interpretarion of the rule is outdated now lol. Also, I forgot to mention I only speak in MLB OBR as I've never read other orgs' rules.
Out! The runner should’ve been in the runner lane. That way there is an opportunity for the defense to make the play if the defense came into the runner lane runner would’ve been safe?
My understanding is that under NFHS, since the BR was not in the runners lane on the way to first, (8-4-1g) he does not get the protection in this play. I have an out.
The answer to the first question is (would be) two bases - referred to as one plus one. The first base is the "contested base," here 1st base is the ocntested base. The plus one base or the second awared base would be awarding the runner second base. The second rule here - of course, hypothetically because the ball did not go out of play into the dugout, the first baseman caught it for the force out. The award is determined - not at the time the ball goes into the dugout and the ball becomes dead. The award is determined by the umpire at the time the outfielder makes the throw. Here at the time of the throw 1st base is the contested base because the runner must return to tag up becaue the fly ball was caught. Had the throw gone into the dugout the runner would have been awarded two bases 1st base and 2nd base. The second questions is that the defender must give the base path to the runner unless and until the fielder is in possession of the ball and is attempting tro make a put out - here a tag out as it happened. At that time the defensive player - here the first baseman - had possession of the ball in his glove and actually tagged the runner out. The first baseman had the right to take away the base path from the runner so there was no obstruciton. Maybe the runner was a good sport and wanted to avoid a collision allowing the first baseman to possess the ball before the runner hit either first base of the first baseman, resulting in being out. I couldn't see whether the runner slowed down or not. Had he hit the first baseman before the first baseman had possession of the ball, it would have been obstruction, because the throw, caused the first baseman to be in the runner's path without the ball. In the spirit of the game it appears here that the runner could have run hard to forst base, and beat the throw, and still done his best not to have a violent collision, rather than slow down, and he could have drawn the obstruciton call and been safe on either the play or the obstruction.
One more thought on the hypothetical. Had the ball gone into the dugout, the runner would have already been safe on first base. First base was no longer a contested base by the dead ball. But you don't give the runner two bases - second and third because the award is determined at the time of the throw when the base was still contested.
@@patrickhyde6125 this comment about him occupying the base before it goes into the dugout is also wrong. The base awards, by definition in the rule book, are from the time of pitch (from 1st throw from the infield) or time of throw (2nd throw of infield or any throw from outfield). Also if all runners acquire the base they are forced to acquire before the wild throw, then it is 2 bases from the time of the throw, and not the time of the pitch. This will almost never happen.
one plus one is a myth. The rule is that the runner gets TWO bases past the last base legally occupied at the time of the throw. The fact that he was returning to first is irrelevant. He achieved first, therefore a throw out of play by the outfielder would grant him 3rd which is 2 bases past the base he legally occupied at the time of the throw.
Out. First baseman has ball in glove before the runner gets to first. If you have the ball in glove you no longer have to step out of the base path. Obstruction is when you Don't have the ball and you "Obstruct" the runner in their endeavor to reach the bag. Also, it looks like the runner is in the field instead of the runners lane. Out! The runner slowed down. He probably though he would be called for interference under the slide or avoid rule. However, had he contacted the first baseman before the ball got there...Obstruction on the first baseman. The best way for this runner to be safe at first...Run hard and slide.
Not disagreeing with your interpretation of the rule, but as a practical matter sliding takes more than a split second of preparation, and I think this runner saw two options at the last moment: slow down or violently collide. In the split second he slowed down, the fielder caught the ball and was able to tag him BECAUSE he had slowed. A bit of a canundrum.
@@markpatterson8922 Agree. The runner does not see the ball in glove until less than a split second to react. Try doing anything in a split second. Like in an old saying, "It is harder to drain the swamp when up to your A** in alligators!"
I’ve got obstruction; batter/runner safe. Batter/runner was in the runner’s lane until the last few feet where he moved to the bag. He slowed down because the First Baseman obstructed his natural path to the base. Yes, the First Baseman made a great playin the ball, but he was not in the act of applying a tag or fielding a batted ball. “Obstruction. The runner is safe.”
Could the runner use the 260lbs of mass to his advantage and keep on trucking right through the 1Bman hoping the ball gets knocked loose when he turns him into roadkill.
Potential obstruction call depends on rule set used. In NFHS rules, fielders are given no protection to field a THROWN ball, only for a BATTED ball. In OBR, fielders are protected. In Fed, obstruction must be called. Batter/Runner is safe. In OBR, out must be called.
I'd guess that the runner is out because the fielder was brought into the runners way while fielding the ball. I think I understand that the fielder has to have the right to field the ball if he's in the act of the ball.
That's not fielding a ball. That's catching a throw. It's obstruction because the batter runner slowed down and avoided a collision with the First baseman (who didn't have the ball). I would still call out at my discretion. It's hard to see everything that went on in real time.
I'm not sure, but I've heard in NFHS, in the acting of fielding a thrown ball is not considered as an excuse to hinder a runner. In that case, while jumping before catching the ball, F3 would have obstructed the BR. In OBR and many other, it would not be obstructed. Anyway, that's one good moment a BR could use a slide.
Not so sure about that being obstruction. Otherwise fielders first concern wouldn't be baseball but making sure they don't obstruct a runner, no matter what.
In NFHS, the fielder must be in possession of the ball to block the runner's path. There is no "in the act of receiving" at that level. It's a safety thing designed to protect kids.
I was taught the fielder has the right to the ball and the runner needs to defer. In the 2nd play, the runner is legal and in the runner's lane. It's a bad throw. The runner cannot be responsible for knowing that. I also see the runner's indecision on where to go so he tries to stop. Good throw, interference. Bad throw, safe.
Runner was not in the running lane. I know it little to do with this play, but if he was in the lane, then there would be less of a discussion on the play. As for the ruling. I got an out. By the time the batter reached the base, the fielder had possession.
First play: Runner would get third if the ball was thrown out of play. Second Play: Obstruction. Dead ball, runner gets first. I'm a fairly new umpire, so let me know if I got either of these wrong.
a lot of comments about sliding in that situation. batter is not allowed to slide to first base off a hit ball. batter hits ball and runs to 1b he/she can run past 1b but cannot slide into 1b directly after hitting the ball, if player is already on 1b just like clip 1 returning to 1b for any reason whether it be leading off and returning to 1b or running to 2b and having to return to 1b is allowed to slide. i would not think its obstruction cause the fielder was not intentionally standing in the batters way. with that being said that play could have been a little more aggressive on the batters part but because he was watching the ball he knew he would collide with the fielder which could have injured one or both of them.
If the batter-runner slowed to prevent injury and F3 did not have possession of ball, you have obstruction in FED. In OBR, F3 is in the act of fielding the throw. So, he’s protected from OBS.
I have obstruction. First base had not received the ball yet when the br was altering his path to the base. So I have the batter/base runner safe. On the first question outfielder throw into the dugout. I have the baserunner to third. Award 2 bases on the throw.
Overthrow into deadball from the outfldr is 2bases from the time of the throw. Since R1 already owned 1st base he gets 2 more. Hence, he goes to 3rd base! 2ND PLAY - THE RUNNER IS OUT! FIELDER HAS THE RT TO MAKE A PLAY ON THE BALL!
Does not matter where the throw originates. If he interferes with F3 receiving a throw, he is liable for RLI. It is most common to make this call on the throw from near the plate, but not required in the rule.
Also, no RLI because he did not interfere. He slowed down to avoid contact. And that is precisely why we have a debate as to whether it is obstruction or not.
On the second play, the runner pulled up because the fielder was blocking the base path before he had possession of the ball. Obstruction and the runner is safe.
@@MwD676 I'm not as familiar with OBR. Does the quality of the throw matter? If F5 would have made a good throw, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. F3 is only in the base path because F5 made a bad throw!
Question about ball potentially going out of play on the throw to 1B on 1st clip; runner would get 3rd. 2 base award from time of throw, and at time of throw he was not on 2nd base, he was short of 2nd starting to return as he saw it was going to be caught. For play where 1B jumps, catches ball then lands in front of the bag "blocking" it, that is an Out - he has possession, therefore can be in front of the runner. Fielder is given some allowance to move to where he needs to be to make a play on the ball. 1B is pretty good, good leap to catch the off-target throw and good catch off the bounce on the appeal play.
Even if he was on 2B at time of throw, that base was not legally obtained because he didn't tag. So the award would be from the last legally obtained base (1B) regardless.
@@ericjohannsen And he -the runner, is still required to tag up, or may be called out on appeal
@@ericjohannsen if runner is between 2nd & 3rd and did not retreat towards 1st (from 2nd)-then the 2-base award would give him home. BUT, if he then retreats to re-touch 1st, you change the award to 3rd. Whew…
@@MwD676 The award is always from the last base legally obtained. The position of the runner doesn't matter at all if he failed to tag up because the last base he gained title to is 1B. If the ball was dropped instead of caught, the last base obtained would be the last one he touched.
That's an interesting issue. As an umpire, you don't tell a team if a player failed to tag up or not. It's an appeal play and they need to know that. So if the ball goes out of play and the runner chooses to not return to first to tag up, instead just takes the base award, the defense can still get the out (in NFHS even during a dead ball.) So in that situation, if the runner is between 2nd and 3rd, but did not tag up at 1st, wouldn't sending him to 3rd simply alert the runner that he didn't tag up? He did actually achieve 2nd right? Obviously can be called out on appeal, but let's say he attempts to tag up on a ball deep into right field but leaves first a little early...then he gets to 2nd and rounds second base, but at that time, the cutoff fielder throws the ball to the pitcher and it goes out of play. We'd send him home on that out of play throw, we wouldn't announce that he didn't tag up, so we need to send him to 3rd. We send that runner home and it's up to the defense to appeal the runner leaving first early. If they don't appeal, then he did achieve 2nd by virtue of the defense not seeing and properly appealing the infraction.
Am I making any sense here?
Pretty straight-forward. He is fielding a throw, then tags with the ball.
Out
Fielder has a play on the ball, he has clear possession before the runner arrives, and there is an available running lane
go frame by frame and you will see that the runner had to slow down before the fielder had possesion
In OBR has a "or in the act of fielding a thrown ball" that is missing in Fed rule.
The runner's lane doesn't matter in this context.
I think he meant gave a pathway to the base without obstruction, like in a catcher blocking or not the home plate. But I disagree. Runner had to reduce speed because the fielder was actually blocking the way jumping for the ball. NHFS: OBS, others: out.
Clearly the runners path was totally blocked. Runner should have run through the first baseman!
He did not hinder or impede. F3 is literally in the air and the entire base is available if the runner slides. Runner does not slow down or change directions. Once F3 has the ball he is clear to land in the path and does so. Nice play kid.
Trick question? Maybe? Doesn’t matter where the ball comes from if it goes out of play. Fielder=2 bases pitched ball= 1 base.
On the play at 1st he is out. 1st baseman making play on ball up line he went to play the ball, catch and tag. Same thing as with a catcher at home fielding a ball got to give access to base but free to catch and tag anywhere the ball is thrown.
Outfield throw out of play is 2 bases from the time of the throw from last legally occupied base. That gives him 3rd.
A fine line here, but no obstruction! F3 was properly positioned on the bag when he jumped to make the catch. At the high point of the jump when he gained possession of the ball, BR still had full access to the bag. After gaining possession of the ball, the momentum of his jump made him land between BR and 1B. But, at this point he had possession of the ball and made the tag. This was a legal tag. It is also a tough call to judge when blue has to do it in real time.
Id say out but youre risking your life stepping in front of a big man like that
If BR keeps running straight at full speed, he makes contact with F3 while F3 is in the air. He slows to prevent contact with (and potential injury to) F3. That makes this an easy OBS (Fed rules, of course.)
That’s an out. He had possession of the ball in his glove.
Exactly
Is that Sparta, NJ? Near me, then.
I have the play in question as an out. The runner is slowing down as he approaches in view of the fielder's blocking his path. However, as the fielder does so, he is first waiting for the throw to reach him, and then he has the ball while waiting for the runner to get there. I don't think the fielder touches 1B for the force-out before the runner gets there, but he still has the right to tag him, which he does, albeit in unorthodox style.
As to what the other commenters are saying, that's interesting about Fed rules. Could this game have been played by Fed rules? Could've been Sparta High School, and NJ is a Fed state AFAIK. Does Fed have any exception regarding obstruction specifically at 1B? Like maybe it doesn't apply when the runner is coming from the fair-ball side of the line?
Possession of the ball, no obstruction. First play would be runner to 3rd if it had gone out of play. Time of Throw award, as all outfield throws are considered the same as a second throw in the infield.
second PLAY from the infield. you can have a play without a throw.
Are you sure? The runner didn't advance to second at the time of the throw.
Under Fed I have obstruction (very close, but I have that the runner had to avoid just prior to possession). Under OBR I have an out.
Thanks for the distinction. I assumed the answer came down to the level of play but wasn’t positive.
Question for you - why are you distinguishing between Fed and OBR for the call of Obstruction here? I could understand when discussing whether it is delayed dead ball or immediate, but why would you distinguish between the rule set for WHY this is obstruction or not? Thanks ahead of time!
@lanem4304 Fed (nfhs) has no provision allowing a fielder to move into the path of the runner in order to catch a throw. OBR does. In Fed, you must have possession of the ball before you can block access to a base. In OBR it's more nuanced.
@@hm51008 It is specifically a NFHS distinction. In all other rule sets I know of the runner is out because the fielder can obstruct if in the act of fielding a thrown ball.
@@lanem4304 Because the rules are different
Why would it be obstruction? The first baseman has the ball. for those that say go frame by frame at 1:43, f3 has the ball in glove, prior to the runner making any adjustment or f3 being in front of the runner without the ball. As soon as the fielder went up the runner should have slide to not make such an easy tag.
out, fielders are allowed to obstruct if either they're 1) in possession of the ball OR 2) in the process of fielding a batted or thrown ball
Not in Fed rules
@postgamebreakdown the rules changed within 11 months, so this comment's interpretarion of the rule is outdated now lol. Also, I forgot to mention I only speak in MLB OBR as I've never read other orgs' rules.
Out!
The runner should’ve been in the runner lane. That way there is an opportunity for the defense to make the play if the defense came into the runner lane runner would’ve been safe?
My understanding is that under NFHS, since the BR was not in the runners lane on the way to first, (8-4-1g) he does not get the protection in this play. I have an out.
The batter-runner did not interfere with the throw. So, RLI had nothing to do with this play.
The answer to the first question is (would be) two bases - referred to as one plus one. The first base is the "contested base," here 1st base is the ocntested base. The plus one base or the second awared base would be awarding the runner second base. The second rule here - of course, hypothetically because the ball did not go out of play into the dugout, the first baseman caught it for the force out. The award is determined - not at the time the ball goes into the dugout and the ball becomes dead. The award is determined by the umpire at the time the outfielder makes the throw. Here at the time of the throw 1st base is the contested base because the runner must return to tag up becaue the fly ball was caught. Had the throw gone into the dugout the runner would have been awarded two bases 1st base and 2nd base.
The second questions is that the defender must give the base path to the runner unless and until the fielder is in possession of the ball and is attempting tro make a put out - here a tag out as it happened. At that time the defensive player - here the first baseman - had possession of the ball in his glove and actually tagged the runner out. The first baseman had the right to take away the base path from the runner so there was no obstruciton. Maybe the runner was a good sport and wanted to avoid a collision allowing the first baseman to possess the ball before the runner hit either first base of the first baseman, resulting in being out. I couldn't see whether the runner slowed down or not. Had he hit the first baseman before the first baseman had possession of the ball, it would have been obstruction, because the throw, caused the first baseman to be in the runner's path without the ball. In the spirit of the game it appears here that the runner could have run hard to forst base, and beat the throw, and still done his best not to have a violent collision, rather than slow down, and he could have drawn the obstruciton call and been safe on either the play or the obstruction.
One more thought on the hypothetical. Had the ball gone into the dugout, the runner would have already been safe on first base. First base was no longer a contested base by the dead ball. But you don't give the runner two bases - second and third because the award is determined at the time of the throw when the base was still contested.
@@patrickhyde6125 this comment about him occupying the base before it goes into the dugout is also wrong. The base awards, by definition in the rule book, are from the time of pitch (from 1st throw from the infield) or time of throw (2nd throw of infield or any throw from outfield). Also if all runners acquire the base they are forced to acquire before the wild throw, then it is 2 bases from the time of the throw, and not the time of the pitch. This will almost never happen.
@@erikpaullive correct. The runner already achieved first base, so the award is third on a ball thrown out of play.
one plus one is a myth. The rule is that the runner gets TWO bases past the last base legally occupied at the time of the throw. The fact that he was returning to first is irrelevant. He achieved first, therefore a throw out of play by the outfielder would grant him 3rd which is 2 bases past the base he legally occupied at the time of the throw.
@@MH-Tesla I call it the greatest myth in youth baseball
Out. First baseman has ball in glove before the runner gets to first. If you have the ball in glove you no longer have to step out of the base path. Obstruction is when you Don't have the ball and you "Obstruct" the runner in their endeavor to reach the bag.
Also, it looks like the runner is in the field instead of the runners lane. Out!
The runner slowed down. He probably though he would be called for interference under the slide or avoid rule. However, had he contacted the first baseman before the ball got there...Obstruction on the first baseman. The best way for this runner to be safe at first...Run hard and slide.
Not disagreeing with your interpretation of the rule, but as a practical matter sliding takes more than a split second of preparation, and I think this runner saw two options at the last moment: slow down or violently collide. In the split second he slowed down, the fielder caught the ball and was able to tag him BECAUSE he had slowed. A bit of a canundrum.
@@markpatterson8922 Agree. The runner does not see the ball in glove until less than a split second to react. Try doing anything in a split second. Like in an old saying, "It is harder to drain the swamp when up to your A** in alligators!"
I’ve got obstruction; batter/runner safe. Batter/runner was in the runner’s lane until the last few feet where he moved to the bag. He slowed down because the First Baseman obstructed his natural path to the base. Yes, the First Baseman made a great playin the ball, but he was not in the act of applying a tag or fielding a batted ball. “Obstruction. The runner is safe.”
Base runner impeded by not being
on the outer first base line
out.. the throw brought the 1st baseman in the path.. he wasn’t already in the path waiting for the throw
Could the runner use the 260lbs of mass to his advantage and keep on trucking right through the 1Bman hoping the ball gets knocked loose when he turns him into roadkill.
Then we have malicious contact and batter/runner is ejected, head coach is restricted.
@@markensign4010 What rule reference do you have for coach restricted?
Potential obstruction call depends on rule set used. In NFHS rules, fielders are given no protection to field a THROWN ball, only for a BATTED ball. In OBR, fielders are protected.
In Fed, obstruction must be called. Batter/Runner is safe.
In OBR, out must be called.
Out. The defender has the right to field the ball and he has the right to move into the batter’s line if it is a bad throw.
Batter Runner is out! No obstruction by the first baseman with the ball in his glove.
I'd guess that the runner is out because the fielder was brought into the runners way while fielding the ball. I think I understand that the fielder has to have the right to field the ball if he's in the act of the ball.
That's not fielding a ball. That's catching a throw. It's obstruction because the batter runner slowed down and avoided a collision with the First baseman (who didn't have the ball). I would still call out at my discretion. It's hard to see everything that went on in real time.
Interesting! Love learning more about the rules - appreciate your comment.
I'm not sure, but I've heard in NFHS, in the acting of fielding a thrown ball is not considered as an excuse to hinder a runner. In that case, while jumping before catching the ball, F3 would have obstructed the BR. In OBR and many other, it would not be obstructed. Anyway, that's one good moment a BR could use a slide.
Not so sure about that being obstruction. Otherwise fielders first concern wouldn't be baseball but making sure they don't obstruct a runner, no matter what.
In NFHS, the fielder must be in possession of the ball to block the runner's path. There is no "in the act of receiving" at that level. It's a safety thing designed to protect kids.
I was taught the fielder has the right to the ball and the runner needs to defer. In the 2nd play, the runner is legal and in the runner's lane. It's a bad throw. The runner cannot be responsible for knowing that. I also see the runner's indecision on where to go so he tries to stop. Good throw, interference. Bad throw, safe.
@@mrlevi2k The fielder has the right to a batted ball in all codes of baseball, but not to a thrown ball under NFHS rules.
Runner was not in the running lane. I know it little to do with this play, but if he was in the lane, then there would be less of a discussion on the play.
As for the ruling. I got an out. By the time the batter reached the base, the fielder had possession.
The 1st Baseman had possession of the ball. No Obstruction call.
First play: Runner would get third if the ball was thrown out of play.
Second Play: Obstruction. Dead ball, runner gets first.
I'm a fairly new umpire, so let me know if I got either of these wrong.
a lot of comments about sliding in that situation. batter is not allowed to slide to first base off a hit ball. batter hits ball and runs to 1b he/she can run past 1b but cannot slide into 1b directly after hitting the ball, if player is already on 1b just like clip 1 returning to 1b for any reason whether it be leading off and returning to 1b or running to 2b and having to return to 1b is allowed to slide. i would not think its obstruction cause the fielder was not intentionally standing in the batters way. with that being said that play could have been a little more aggressive on the batters part but because he was watching the ball he knew he would collide with the fielder which could have injured one or both of them.
There is absolutely no rule that prohibits a slide at 1st base. If you have one , I’d sure like to see it (in print).
Nor does intentionality have any bearing on obstruction.
If the batter-runner slowed to prevent injury and F3 did not have possession of ball, you have obstruction in FED.
In OBR, F3 is in the act of fielding the throw. So, he’s protected from OBS.
I have obstruction. First base had not received the ball yet when the br was altering his path to the base. So I have the batter/base runner safe. On the first question outfielder throw into the dugout. I have the baserunner to third. Award 2 bases on the throw.
Overthrow into deadball from the outfldr is 2bases from the time of the throw. Since R1 already owned 1st base he gets 2 more. Hence, he goes to 3rd base! 2ND PLAY - THE RUNNER IS OUT! FIELDER HAS THE RT TO MAKE A PLAY ON THE BALL!
the fielder does not have the right to make a play on a thrown ball
In OBR, the fielder does have a right to field a thrown ball. FED has a different standard, though.
Out but big boy should have not slowed up.
But did he slow up because he was obstructed?!
Out
Safe on NHFS rule.
Not only is it an out but it's runners lane interference
Sorry no. RLI only comes into play when thrown from the area of the baseline.
Does not matter where the throw originates. If he interferes with F3 receiving a throw, he is liable for RLI.
It is most common to make this call on the throw from near the plate, but not required in the rule.
Also, no RLI because he did not interfere. He slowed down to avoid contact. And that is precisely why we have a debate as to whether it is obstruction or not.
Runner's lane interference?? TheDrunkdan must be drunk! 😂😂😂
On the second play, the runner pulled up because the fielder was blocking the base path before he had possession of the ball. Obstruction and the runner is safe.
He has the right to field the ball that is what he was doing.
@@63076topher The fielder is protected when making a play on a batted ball, not a thrown ball, especially a ball as poorly thrown as this one.
@@travistaylor1195 Good point, tough call.
@@travistaylor1195 F3 would be protected in OBR. But I think we are assuming FED since it’s a HS game.
@@MwD676 I'm not as familiar with OBR. Does the quality of the throw matter? If F5 would have made a good throw, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. F3 is only in the base path because F5 made a bad throw!
Out
Out