So glad I discovered this channel, the easy to understand breakdowns have helped me so much in being able to analyze gto and under the reasons behind the math and seemingly overwhelming charts and graphs
This guy is speaking Chinese I didn’t understand anything honestly. It get me depressed when I watch his videos, makes me feel like dumb and I don’t understand poker at all 🥲
I got multiple comments on my vlogs telling me to check out this channel and I am very glad I did! This is such a more accessible way to approaching this crazy world of solvers!
Great flop balance video! Balanced bucketing is much harder on the turn and river, obv, where a stronger player e.g. can find spots where a weaker player "has no bluffs in his range" because he doesn't convert low pairs into bluffs. Similarly, when many likely draws miss, the stronger player can know that the beginner's intuitive "bluff bucket" will be too large. These issues are way more important than esoteric card removal stuff. But to achieve approximate turn/river balance, I guess there is no alternative to "reading your own hand"?
"Since there are almost an infinite number of different situations that exist in poker, finding spots where all of the exact same variables repeat themselves is highly unlikely, which makes pattern recognition difficult. So to address this problem, we can take a page from the world of artificial intelligence by using a technique known as bucketing. Bucketing is used by AI to group together hands of similar strength, thereby reducing the number of variables that need to be contended with and simplifying the game."
They don’t even have a product yet are willing to say this isn’t what a premium coaching site already does to a roughly correct gto ratio degree. They don’t even know that they do this yet said pokercoaching.com does not do this. I’d stay away.
@@kempakarlsson they claim pokercoaching doesn’t already have a bucketing system that can get a newer player close to GTO. Which is a lie. Pokercoaching has a proven system of exactly what this video entails and proven results. I turned a 300 dollar bankroll into about 6k in a year using it. A little lucky, but wouldn’t have been able to do half of it without it. Legit get it for a discount, when you have time off study more. Probably end up being cheaper too. Since they are willing to lie, probably willing to overcharge you too
There's a way to make it a lot easier using effect of card removal values for specific cards, you can assign a numerical scale to all flop/turn/river. Then use the numerical scale vs hand ranges. Spend the 4000+ hours it took me to figure it out and you might get there. Currently working on numerical value for hands show in specific positions vs board value to obtain better opp ranges. Using the 1326 distinct possible combination hands you can assign a numerical value for ranges, polarized ranges can use multiple scales starting at 0 for top range and 0 for bottom range. Flop equities run linearly, river run diametrically.
Hi, I have 2 questions about the product. 1. How much accuracy (exploitable for x% of the pot) does GTOX solve to? Do the accuracy change depends if it is 3bp or SRP? 2. What rake structure are they preflop ranges solved to?
For the first 2 questions, I would ask Simple Postflop on twitter or discord. I have checked GTOx against accurately solved (.35-.5% of the pot) sims from simple postflop and Pio and they are close. We will likely have different prelfop ranges based on rake structures/sizes in the future, but the initial one for 6max no ante I believe is 4.5% 1bb cap. You can also manually edit the ranges before solving.
I can say that the pricing is scaled based on use since GTOx uses a cluster of servers for solving and that the lowest price point will be on the lower end of market for poker learning subscriptions. We want to make GTOx available to as wide of an audience as possible.
i dig all of your videos and really like the fact that you explain complicated ideas in a very understandable manner. quick question, what is the formula for calculating ev regret? or maybe you could point me in a good direction. thanks man
Yup, u r now ready to crush 10k nl. In all seriousness, this hand was chosen specifically bc the classes fit neatly within 3 buckets, but in most scenarios that will not happen without significant EV loss and the key is to figure out why.
So i am not a GTO wizard, and I love this. I also dont have this App or the skills to use it. So my question is, have you made a bucket chart us plebs can use?
The biggest problem i have in those type of scenarios is where to put the naked medium draws like openender w/o BDFD,gutshot +2overs for ex.Should this be a seperate bucket or just chunk it into the no made hand one. Also flushdraws, at what threshhold u start betting them vs checking and is this another bucket thx great stuff cant wait release
Thanks. Every scenario is different but if I could give one rule of thumb on draws based on what I have seen, it is that they should generally be played with a mix that somewhat mirrors your overall range frequency. For example, if you have a range advantage and are in position, your range should probably be betting a lot and therefore most of your draws should also bet. However, if you are out of position and at a range disadvantage, your overall range will often only bet a lower frequency and therefore your draws should also bet a lower frequency. Unless there are particular blockers/unblockers in play, just mixing across all your draws (perhaps prioritizing the stronger ones) should probably be close in EV.
I learned poker in the year 2000. It’s like it’s a new language and a totally different game, I have no idea wtf he’s talking about I need help I’m willing to learn
what about bucketing junk hands say for example playing all your non draw over cards on a low a low card flop like 742 rainbow. then putting your over cards + backdoor draw hands in another? or is that not a good idea because obviously having T9 on that board would be far different then having AK or AQ or AJ
Solid stuff! If you're engrossed, I'd point you towards a book with similar ground. "Game Theory and the Pursuit of Algorithmic Fairness" by Jack Frostwell
Great video, as always. Thought the candidates for slowplay (checking set) would be candidates with high blocking and high unblocking score, because then you block high proportion of calling range and unblock high proportion of Vs weak range? So why you choose the bottom left of the scatterplot and not the top right?
@@FindingEquilibrium Thank you! Is there a website so I can get on the email list to be notified or something when it's available, and possible discount info, more info, etc.? Appreciate it! Subscribed here also btw! Love the channel. 🍻
Thx for the great content. But I think even using 1sizing on the flop as parameter won't lose much ev either. For example when solver suggest 2 sizes 33% and 75% we just simplify it by using 50%.
@@FindingEquilibrium OHHH I thought you were involved. Looks l ike a cool product. I'm looking to study up and thinking about getting GTO+ instead of PIO cuz its like 8 times cheaper. Good move?
Well, each individual's situation is different, but in my own experience, I learned GTO using piosolver, but it would take 30 min+ to set up and analyze a hand using the same methods described in this video. I created GTOx so that I could cut-down this process by many times over and also so that I could use enhanced tools/metrics that I always thought would be useful, but pio does not provide. To put it another way - I have spent over a year and tens of thousands of dollars of my own money to develop GTOx which I would not have done if I didn't think I was adding significant value to what is currently available on the market.
This is the first article from the vid, which is a bit old but still relevant: www.jonathan-rubin.com/files/CPReviewPreprintAIJ.pdf. This is probably the best modern, comprehensive summary of AI techniques: www.cs.cmu.edu/~noamb/thesis.pdf. Not light reading tho!
@@FindingEquilibrium Thanks! Really appreciate you replying. It doesn't seem to be the one around the half-minute mark however, interested to know which one might that be. Thanks !
I think it is better than nothing, but I always found rounding as somewhat arbitrary and it still requires memorization. Bucketing I think is more intuitive and aligns with how people actually analyze hands in real life when they are playing. Plus, bucketing doesn't disturb the underlying GTO strategy, which rounding will, and allows for scalability depending on user experience level.
Everyone applies buckets when playing - the question is whether the buckets they are applying are accurate. GTOx is designed to help people learn the the optimal buckets to apply depending on experience level.
If you have played poker enough of time (+5 years at least) and have improved your game over the time by practice, you realize you already play GTO. Not just ideal GTO, which is impossible to done by human. Who ever online player plays ideal or very-very near to ideal GTO is using RTA or BOT (which applies GTO) most likely and will be banned soon enough becuase poker rooms track anomalies and perfections on winnings (not just cash game but tournament hands as well). If you don't understand the video, it's because you are too beginning on the poker journey and you should learn basic concepts first - EV, pot odds, positions, role of the total players on the table, opening ranges per position, importance of blinds and ante, your stack, bet sizing etc. After all of these basics and practice you get the GTO and probably apply it already as much as human brain can do it. Spoiler alert: there's no real GTO when you don't use RTA or BOT, which is not allowed. Yes, it's very easy to hide RTA or BOT program against poker clients, but you cannot hide your perfomance. And your hands data will be analyzed by the program as soon as your game style has been improved drastically. And 80-100% GTO shows that, especially if you played 5-10% GTO week ago or so. If RTA and BOT don't result in ban, the program authors wouldn't sell them - they would use it and give their friends to use it with their bankroll and % cut to take the maximum amount of the money with very short period of time.
@@topological4 yea I’ve been playing for over a decade, decent player. I guess I never learned the acronyms and lingo of the game as much as just playing it and getting better over time. Cheers for the comment
@@DaDa-kf4vp These acronyms help you a lot in a game. Haven't read or heard anybody using the full expression. Without knowing them, it makes hard to study poker and read HUD, having full understandment. In GTO, there are hundred thousands or even million different possibilites on each street, which apply different bet sizing, calling based on opponent, position, opponent's probable ranges, diffefent bet sizing or folding. It is not just realistic for human brain to catch that. It's working theory, which made online poker exploitable by programs. In reality, not much more, we can only use the theory to analyze very complex hands after the game and apply the suggested result next time when it happens. It's not happening in near future again most likely (depends how many hands per day you play and how complex the situation was), but you just get the knowledge thanks to real life experience, which put you to tough spot and at that point you're not sure if you played the hand as GTO. In the end, if every player would play 100% correct GTO, it turns to lottery, because at that point the card run is only thing that matters - which is random. In cash game all players would play minus rake and MTT most hot running player would win. That's the reason we don't hear a lot real Pros talking about GTO often, they play the player and their drawn cards based on experience - 10+ millions of hands. GTO fuzz is more new generation thing, who still figure out their best game and ranges
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I often look at my hand and say "bucket it, I'm all in" :)
I only have 1 bucket, which is shove pre.
Gold👌👌👌
So you're a donkey huh
Some of this is finally starting to get though my thick skull. Thanks
Once again the most brilliant poker videos online! Thank you!
So glad I discovered this channel, the easy to understand breakdowns have helped me so much in being able to analyze gto and under the reasons behind the math and seemingly overwhelming charts and graphs
This guy is speaking Chinese
I didn’t understand anything honestly.
It get me depressed when I watch his videos, makes me feel like dumb and I don’t understand poker at all 🥲
I got multiple comments on my vlogs telling me to check out this channel and I am very glad I did! This is such a more accessible way to approaching this crazy world of solvers!
Upswing Category System™ would like to have a word...
Actually, this is the much needed 2021 refresh of that concept. Well done!
Great flop balance video! Balanced bucketing is much harder on the turn and river, obv, where a stronger player e.g. can find spots where a weaker player "has no bluffs in his range" because he doesn't convert low pairs into bluffs. Similarly, when many likely draws miss, the stronger player can know that the beginner's intuitive "bluff bucket" will be too large. These issues are way more important than esoteric card removal stuff. But to achieve approximate turn/river balance, I guess there is no alternative to "reading your own hand"?
Yo you're too good I'm afraid to recommend to my poker bros for obvious reasons lol
"Since there are almost an infinite number of different situations that exist in poker, finding spots where all of the exact same variables repeat themselves is highly unlikely, which makes pattern recognition difficult. So to address this problem, we can take a page from the world of artificial intelligence by using a technique known as bucketing. Bucketing is used by AI to group together hands of similar strength, thereby reducing the number of variables that need to be contended with and simplifying the game."
Such a silly technique, just doesn't make any sense. Having a good base and then exploit weaknesses of opponents will always be beneficial.
@@Woudloper How does the simplification of the most optimal method play not make any sense?
Amazing Content... man i love your channel
No problem, my friend
Release the damn product already
Ikr
They don’t even have a product yet are willing to say this isn’t what a premium coaching site already does to a roughly correct gto ratio degree. They don’t even know that they do this yet said pokercoaching.com does not do this. I’d stay away.
@@Pumalate77 coherent sentences please
@@Pumalate77 care to elaborate on that? Preferably in english this time.
@@kempakarlsson they claim pokercoaching doesn’t already have a bucketing system that can get a newer player close to GTO. Which is a lie. Pokercoaching has a proven system of exactly what this video entails and proven results. I turned a 300 dollar bankroll into about 6k in a year using it. A little lucky, but wouldn’t have been able to do half of it without it. Legit get it for a discount, when you have time off study more. Probably end up being cheaper too. Since they are willing to lie, probably willing to overcharge you too
I think "However" is the most used word on this channel
How this video got away from me for 3 years? Nice one.
There's a way to make it a lot easier using effect of card removal values for specific cards, you can assign a numerical scale to all flop/turn/river. Then use the numerical scale vs hand ranges. Spend the 4000+ hours it took me to figure it out and you might get there. Currently working on numerical value for hands show in specific positions vs board value to obtain better opp ranges. Using the 1326 distinct possible combination hands you can assign a numerical value for ranges, polarized ranges can use multiple scales starting at 0 for top range and 0 for bottom range. Flop equities run linearly, river run diametrically.
Are there any videos out there detailing this?
Could you answer to the previous question?
Hi, I have 2 questions about the product. 1. How much accuracy (exploitable for x% of the pot) does GTOX solve to? Do the accuracy change depends if it is 3bp or SRP?
2. What rake structure are they preflop ranges solved to?
For the first 2 questions, I would ask Simple Postflop on twitter or discord. I have checked GTOx against accurately solved (.35-.5% of the pot) sims from simple postflop and Pio and they are close. We will likely have different prelfop ranges based on rake structures/sizes in the future, but the initial one for 6max no ante I believe is 4.5% 1bb cap. You can also manually edit the ranges before solving.
This is simplified?
The EV regret assumes that villain is playing equilibrum strategy.
Have you explored how this is flawed in any videos?
Good content here! But how the flop influence this way of thinking? What about a huge draw board like TKJ with FD?
Any spoilers about the price of the product? I'm getting anxious lol
I can say that the pricing is scaled based on use since GTOx uses a cluster of servers for solving and that the lowest price point will be on the lower end of market for poker learning subscriptions. We want to make GTOx available to as wide of an audience as possible.
@@FindingEquilibrium Very nice.
@@FindingEquilibrium So kind of like sharkscope?
@@brothajamez doubt it xd
i dig all of your videos and really like the fact that you explain complicated ideas in a very understandable manner. quick question, what is the formula for calculating ev regret? or maybe you could point me in a good direction. thanks man
Bet my strongest hands and my weakest hands and check the middle hands and then sometimes do the opposite so they dont know what I have. Got it boss
Yup, u r now ready to crush 10k nl. In all seriousness, this hand was chosen specifically bc the classes fit neatly within 3 buckets, but in most scenarios that will not happen without significant EV loss and the key is to figure out why.
Mixing it up. Nice
So i am not a GTO wizard, and I love this. I also dont have this App or the skills to use it. So my question is, have you made a bucket chart us plebs can use?
The biggest problem i have in those type of scenarios is where to put the naked medium draws like openender w/o BDFD,gutshot +2overs for ex.Should this be a seperate bucket or just chunk it into the no made hand one.
Also flushdraws, at what threshhold u start betting them vs checking and is this another bucket
thx great stuff cant wait release
Thanks. Every scenario is different but if I could give one rule of thumb on draws based on what I have seen, it is that they should generally be played with a mix that somewhat mirrors your overall range frequency. For example, if you have a range advantage and are in position, your range should probably be betting a lot and therefore most of your draws should also bet. However, if you are out of position and at a range disadvantage, your overall range will often only bet a lower frequency and therefore your draws should also bet a lower frequency. Unless there are particular blockers/unblockers in play, just mixing across all your draws (perhaps prioritizing the stronger ones) should probably be close in EV.
@@FindingEquilibrium Thx your stuff is the best i ve seen anywhere please release soon
Me still don’t know 🤷♂️
always nice to and interesting ! Keep it up ! Any timeframe for the release?
I learned poker in the year 2000. It’s like it’s a new language and a totally different game, I have no idea wtf he’s talking about I need help I’m willing to learn
Great stuff as always!
what about bucketing junk hands say for example playing all your non draw over cards on a low a low card flop like 742 rainbow. then putting your over cards + backdoor draw hands in another? or is that not a good idea because obviously having T9 on that board would be far different then having AK or AQ or AJ
Great as always. Is there any chance you will make a solver for Short deck ?
Maybe in the future - just trying to get this one out first!
Solid stuff! If you're engrossed, I'd point you towards a book with similar ground. "Game Theory and the Pursuit of Algorithmic Fairness" by Jack Frostwell
Great video, as always. Thought the candidates for slowplay (checking set) would be candidates with high blocking and high unblocking score, because then you block high proportion of calling range and unblock high proportion of Vs weak range? So why you choose the bottom left of the scatterplot and not the top right?
What software program is this being shown in this video? Want to buy it. Winning player looking to take my game to that next level. Thanks.
This is GTOx - hasn't been launched yet but hope to soon.
@@FindingEquilibrium Thank you! Is there a website so I can get on the email list to be notified or something when it's available, and possible discount info, more info, etc.? Appreciate it! Subscribed here also btw! Love the channel. 🍻
When GTOx will be available to the public?
Thx for the great content. But I think even using 1sizing on the flop as parameter won't lose much ev either. For example when solver suggest 2 sizes 33% and 75% we just simplify it by using 50%.
you can test that theory in a solver and see what your EV regret is of always using 50% compared to a mixed strategy of 33% and 75%.
Hi, when we can expect this solver to come out?
Thanks for this, really great and helpful content and these videos help to make difficult to grasp concepts understandable.
I use bucketing to throw GTO in the bin.
Can’t we get a advanced bucketing video plZ
Great video. When is GTOX coming out? I am interested.
Follow Simple Poker on twitter and ask them every day until it is released!
@@FindingEquilibrium OHHH I thought you were involved. Looks l ike a cool product. I'm looking to study up and thinking about getting GTO+ instead of PIO cuz its like 8 times cheaper. Good move?
This is like finding money
Will GTOx work on a Mac? Love your videos so much! Please make more.
We were told that "yes" it is working on Windows/Mac since its a web based app.
Yes will work on Mac!
Whats the name of the program you are using at the video ?
Darude sandstorm
Can you link the articles you used in the video? Thanks.
Finding Equilibrium
15 hours ago
1st: www.jonathan-rubin.com/files/CPReviewPreprintAIJ.pdf. 2nd: www.cs.cmu.edu/~sandholm/hierarchical.aamas15.pdf
Is there value in buying GTOx if I already own PioSolver?
Well, each individual's situation is different, but in my own experience, I learned GTO using piosolver, but it would take 30 min+ to set up and analyze a hand using the same methods described in this video. I created GTOx so that I could cut-down this process by many times over and also so that I could use enhanced tools/metrics that I always thought would be useful, but pio does not provide. To put it another way - I have spent over a year and tens of thousands of dollars of my own money to develop GTOx which I would not have done if I didn't think I was adding significant value to what is currently available on the market.
Just read the chapter on Equity Buckets in Modern Poker Theory.
I think he uses it a bit different to categorize overall range strength but it is basically the same concept.
@@FindingEquilibrium I'm still trying to grok it but yah. Just a way to group uncountable infinities. Looking forward to your release. I'll buy it.
Now I'm even more confused
Great vid as always ! Care to share where the documents that you have shown snippets here are from?
This is the first article from the vid, which is a bit old but still relevant: www.jonathan-rubin.com/files/CPReviewPreprintAIJ.pdf. This is probably the best modern, comprehensive summary of AI techniques: www.cs.cmu.edu/~noamb/thesis.pdf. Not light reading tho!
WOW
@@FindingEquilibrium Thanks ! I am also curious about the one at the 0:28 mark, haven't encountered it before.
@@Alex-Bunin www.cs.cmu.edu/~sandholm/hierarchical.aamas15.pdf
@@FindingEquilibrium Thanks! Really appreciate you replying. It doesn't seem to be the one around the half-minute mark however, interested to know which one might that be. Thanks !
The number of scenarios in poker is as close to infinite as 0 is ;)
Wrong
Where can I find this program?
Nevermind, I can't afford it
Are you the man who everbody is talking about? The man called gto? Lol
I'm out.
Thank you amazing content.
@Finding Equilibrium What do you think about "Round" tool at Simple Postflop in terms of simplyfying the strategy? Is it useful?
I think it is better than nothing, but I always found rounding as somewhat arbitrary and it still requires memorization. Bucketing I think is more intuitive and aligns with how people actually analyze hands in real life when they are playing. Plus, bucketing doesn't disturb the underlying GTO strategy, which rounding will, and allows for scalability depending on user experience level.
@@FindingEquilibrium thanks for the answer. Do you have a private coaching? What $/hour if yes?
Get that patent impending. Nice video.
Already filed! ;)
wow I will start bucket from today
Can you please bring this video down before all the fishes watch it! :D
Nice channel
Will it have support on GGPoker?
Yes!
@@FindingEquilibrium Fuck yeah.
It would have been really cool if you explained what GTO was.
Nice video!
Great video!
so how do I apply it when playing?
Everyone applies buckets when playing - the question is whether the buckets they are applying are accurate. GTOx is designed to help people learn the the optimal buckets to apply depending on experience level.
@@FindingEquilibrium have to adjust to opponent to if no notes on him and its online you can bucket some countrys works most off the times 🐑
@@Stefanburakov Love the sheep
If it is one ^^
When???
Follow Simple Poker on twitter and ask them every day until it is released!
wow this go crazy
King content
Jackey Chan?
No wonder hellmuth beat Polk
Wanna know what else is impossible? Following wtf this video is talking about if you're not 100% fluent in GTO. It's all technical jargon.
The small blinds never calls only 3 bet or fold
Beautiful
I wrote “for beginners”
One could use real poker hands to teach
When are you going to just shut up and take my money?
ackchyually
you sound like your mouth is watering
This does not simplify GTO for my dumba$$. Appreciate it though.
If you have played poker enough of time (+5 years at least) and have improved your game over the time by practice, you realize you already play GTO. Not just ideal GTO, which is impossible to done by human. Who ever online player plays ideal or very-very near to ideal GTO is using RTA or BOT (which applies GTO) most likely and will be banned soon enough becuase poker rooms track anomalies and perfections on winnings (not just cash game but tournament hands as well).
If you don't understand the video, it's because you are too beginning on the poker journey and you should learn basic concepts first - EV, pot odds, positions, role of the total players on the table, opening ranges per position, importance of blinds and ante, your stack, bet sizing etc. After all of these basics and practice you get the GTO and probably apply it already as much as human brain can do it.
Spoiler alert: there's no real GTO when you don't use RTA or BOT, which is not allowed. Yes, it's very easy to hide RTA or BOT program against poker clients, but you cannot hide your perfomance. And your hands data will be analyzed by the program as soon as your game style has been improved drastically. And 80-100% GTO shows that, especially if you played 5-10% GTO week ago or so. If RTA and BOT don't result in ban, the program authors wouldn't sell them - they would use it and give their friends to use it with their bankroll and % cut to take the maximum amount of the money with very short period of time.
@@topological4 yea I’ve been playing for over a decade, decent player. I guess I never learned the acronyms and lingo of the game as much as just playing it and getting better over time. Cheers for the comment
@@DaDa-kf4vp These acronyms help you a lot in a game. Haven't read or heard anybody using the full expression. Without knowing them, it makes hard to study poker and read HUD, having full understandment.
In GTO, there are hundred thousands or even million different possibilites on each street, which apply different bet sizing, calling based on opponent, position, opponent's probable ranges, diffefent bet sizing or folding. It is not just realistic for human brain to catch that. It's working theory, which made online poker exploitable by programs. In reality, not much more, we can only use the theory to analyze very complex hands after the game and apply the suggested result next time when it happens. It's not happening in near future again most likely (depends how many hands per day you play and how complex the situation was), but you just get the knowledge thanks to real life experience, which put you to tough spot and at that point you're not sure if you played the hand as GTO.
In the end, if every player would play 100% correct GTO, it turns to lottery, because at that point the card run is only thing that matters - which is random. In cash game all players would play minus rake and MTT most hot running player would win.
That's the reason we don't hear a lot real Pros talking about GTO often, they play the player and their drawn cards based on experience - 10+ millions of hands. GTO fuzz is more new generation thing, who still figure out their best game and ranges