How Much Power Does an Active SQ System Draw? Clamping Test on a 1.5kW RMS System
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- Опубликовано: 25 мар 2022
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I have been telling people this for 30 years. If you have an SQ system, you don't need 1000's of watts of power. I blow folks away when I tell them my Focal front and rear speakers are driven with a Soundstream Class A Picasso 25w x 4 and my Focal sub with a Soundstream Reference Class A 10.0 50w x2 (200w bridged) 4 ohms. 300 watt system plays loud and clean! Thank you for this educational video for the masses.
Agreed, My system when it had the Helix B4 (50x4) had guys scratching their heads.
I've actually had the pleasure of listening to this car and I can easily say it rocks. Seriously rocks.
Well there's Peter with your wake up call!
This has to be easily the most educational car audio video on RUclips! And to think it's taken this long for it to be done. If it has been already, I've never seen it and I'm on RUclips quite a bit.
Where people get confused is seeing the SPL guys. Like you said, some are running 6kw plus and using sine waves at frequencies they know where to exactly go to for most DB. The most DB equals the most amps/current drawn. And they also know how to combat box rise. We don't care about it, and don't need to, when it comes to SQ and everyday listening.
OH YEAH! Class D, and even current Class AB amps, are a lot more efficient now then they were 20 plus years ago.
Thanks once again Peter!
The “Secret project” a year ago also had a clamping test and we saw 62A max.
My simple system has become more of an SQ build than planned. What started as a budget rig in my daily has gradually ended up being more dialed in with my DSP and careful gain staging than one might think possible. I'm under 350w total with 4" coaxial in the dash, 6.5" and a 1" in the doors and dual 12's in the cargo area of my 06 xb. The system plays clean, images very well and is loud enough to make your eyes flutter if you want it to. I love when people insist that I must be hiding something because of the performance. You do not need all that power. Selecting efficient drivers and amps and dialing in signal levels is key. The best part is I'm not ripping my car apart with my stereo.
I use the same clamp, I’m on my second, you can’t beat them.
I have a factory 320 amp on the mains and a 1200 watt fosgate amp for the sub on stock and it sound great!!
I'm gonna guess 60-80amp at full tilt. I also believe the question itself proves it won't pull as much as I expect. I'll be interested to see what music is chosen, I listen to predominately to DnB, so lots of sine wave bass draw.
Well glad to be proven very wrong, even on the sine.
And qudos to you Peter, dropping El Bario, and the MAW mix, damn that's a great track.
This was cool to see. Very good points. Throw some P.E.B and see how it does.
Definitely makes me feel better about my 1500 watt rms system I'm putting into my hybrid, the DC converter can do 100 amps continuously so I'm well within an acceptable buffer as long as I keep my 12v battery in good condition.
Nice video, the door handle rattle is a true problem yes, at least for me ...
Now I wanna see how much those new class A Mosconi 4/30 amps draw. They are gonna be the biggest power draws, but the reproduction of music is next level.
Ohh I love these kinds of measurements. I would love to see a current probe with an oscilloscope to capture the peaks to see if they are higher and end that discussion about peaks.
Like a Pico TA167. To bad it's like $300.
I use a couple of these at work together with both bench oscilloscope and PC scope. They only have like 200 kHz bandwidth but should probably work for this application. Since getting more bandwidth is expensive. We also have a higher bandwidth probe but that is like $7k.
I should take a couple of days off work and take it with me and come and visit. Since I do not my self have any big amp.
full tilt peaks i'd say 100A.
edit: oh wow i was waaayy off lol
i was think of using a noise gate .what do think on a 4 channel noise gate and my amps have fully balanced input there two coustic dr-514 4 channels that have been recapped with all audio capacitors and rebias should i use the noise gate or just run the balance option with the balance line transmitter for the amps . I think it works like the old soundstream amps with the din cable
Power draw of a system relative to its maximum power mostly depends on the signal's crest factor, and efficiency of amplifiers. The maximum short term average energy density of music will be around 1/4. Efficiency of Class D amplifiers will be 80% or above. That math already brings us very close to what you measured.
Indeed, but 98% of users/owners have no idea about it and a visual test gives them better understanding.
My sub amp is huge lol. I probably am still way overkill. I did it because I always wanted a mix between SPL and SQ. I definitely need to clamp it! This video definitely has me wondering though.
Once you’re there and can clamp it, then share it please. I’m sure it’ll surprise you! 😉😃
@pssound I have a question I have 2 utopia m 10” subs 400w rms At 4 ohms Each And I have a audison av 5.1k with 600w at 4 ohms what should I do get another audison5.1k ?
Then I can play the utopia tmp on the first amp with a sub 1 and on the other amp I can power the utopia 3.5” and 8” and the sub nr 2 ? Or just use both subs on the 5.1k and a audison 4,300 on the 8”?
Hi Pietr, awesome educational video, are you using the standard battery or a deep cycle battery? quite mindblowing that theres still so much headroom with the power in the amplifiers available, whats your thoughts on inline capacitors with a standard battery or just a decent deep cycle battery for power?
Cap is pointless, get a decent AGM battery instead or/plus a small secondary battery at the back if you want to have more stable voltage. Lithium is king though.
@@pssound9749 awesome thanks for the reply will look into it. Busy building a budget sq system in my golf. Your videos are giving me the motivation I need to get further along in the process.
This is a very interesting subject. I remember the times with the 1 farad+ capacitors.🙂 You will need a ampere meter with peak hold to be able to really tell, otherwise it kind of a random guesswork to read the display, and what values the meter randomly displays🙂
It’s not random at all, especially when you measure sine tone measured in the video.
Well, thats not my opinion, thats just how a non peak holding meter works, and displays things. 🙂
You are right about the sine playback. The sine wave measuring becomes fairly acurate even wit a simple non peak holding camp meter.
But if we would want to be extremely exact with measuring the absolute peaks in dynamic music playback, oscilloscopes are fast enough to display those extremely fast, short, and high peak pulses.
I am not sure if a reasonally priced clamp ampers meter really are fast enough for exact audio use, but on that i could be very wrong. 🙂
@@JeyDeeSweden we don’t have to be scientific about it as a clamp meter shows it well enough. It’s not like you have peak draw 2-3x higher with music than what’s seen on the display, maybe 5% more within the refresh time.
As you can never draw as much with dynamic music as with sine tone, you can see your maximum load with sine tone just fine. For a daily SQ system it shows the scale. You rather want to be more concerned when you play with 2-3kW+ on subs and with continuous re-bassed music.
@@pssound9749 Well, lets not get over board🙂
Keep up the good work, building those extremely fine car audio systems and creating these exellent and interesting videos. 🙂
When I clamped my 3200 watt rms amp I was surprised. Of course if I play crazy bass it can pull 200+ amps total clamped at the alternator. At first I thought my clamp must just be shit when I was meausring like 10-20 amps on normal music playing on a 5000 watt rms system. If your amp is 3200 watts RMS you're never going to see that with impedance rise anyway. Unless you clip it. Also, another thing that surprised me was how much power is produced when you clip. I saw someone with a 150 watt rms amp that put out like 230 watts when clipping. That is a lot more power.
150w vs 240w = ~1.5dB - 2dB
42 amps
Well, I was way off. Lol. Wow, the current pull wasn't even close to what I figured it would have been.
With a normal volume like 5.3 A, full 24.8 A
How do you set the gains on the amps? Are they set low or to get the max out of them?
They’re set to get the max out of the amps, yes. The owner can easily overdrive the sub too if goes too high on sub level on controller on certain songs too.
I would guess it would pull about half of the 'expected' current, so about 60A
I see I'm not the only one who has issues with that stinger fuse cover not wanting to stay on...
82A
Edit: Okay I was way off, but isnt it also so, that the multimeter is randomly putting out a number based on the update frequency of the display. How accurately is it really showing the maximum current draw in this scenario. I mean, if you would log it, it might be drawing more than what it showed for 5-10ms or so, and that wouldnt necessarily be displayed on the multimeter?
It shows the current peak in the given refreshing time. If the system was drawing 40-50-60A, it would show it too.
@BMW1M when you play continues sine tone, you have continues draw, as accurate as it gets.
Peter, please tell shortly which dsp hertz h8 or focal fsp-8. Using hertz atm but can get focal. Just don’t know to stay with hertz or worth changing it. Many thanks in advance
None of them!! Rather a Helix DSP.3S!
@@pssound9749 i have to choose just between hertz and focal..
@@milkman5038 why is that though? I’m afraid i can’t give you a suggestion on that as i have not much experience with the Focal other than friends mentioned it wasn’t great and i used plenty of Hertz to know to stay away from them.
When you are tuning the system do you keep the engine running? What can i use to feed the car?
We have CTEK 25A supply, works perfectly.
@BMW1M Thx! I'm just an amateur but i was fighting with that issue....
@@pssound9749 Thanks Peter! Best regards!
In car when the system is on full volume, The engine RMP drops and shoots little higer than normal.
This happens in a diesel car, What would happen to a petrol car whoes engine produce less torque
Cant wait till i can start on my system. 😭
Does it change much with Class A/B amps?
Not much, max 30% higher with AB amps i’d say. It’s rather different with A-class amps especially on idle draw.
I’m gonna guess 75amps. Will watch the vid now to see 😎
I was waaaay off hahahaha
👍
Hi peter.how do you use to set gains on amp?
Hi, it can not be explained in 2 sentences, but there is a 45min long video about it on Patreon.
@@pssound9749 thank you.i will check it
120 amps?
Real efficience jl audio amps!
60A
Would have guessed 5A and about 35A with high volume hard bass.
Pete
Is this in ac or dc mode ?
DC mode.
@@pssound9749 oke oke... then i bought a wrong clamp meter.. mine is only in ac mode.
Jl audio xd amps? Those are entry level isn't it
Hi, no, they are not.
Probably draws between 12 and 15 amps full tilt. But that’s not the reason to upsize the wire. The reason it needs to be so large to compensate for voltage drop.
But zero gauge is OTT for this when that is more than capable upto 250A on 5m without a drop.
@@pssound9749 I ran Double 0 gauge on my system. It’s about dynamic bursts of energy that happen so quickly during transients your meter cannot respond fast enough to capture. Constant draw and dynamic peaks are two different animals. No such thing as built too strong or wire size too large especially on a 12 volt system. Bigger is better.
And what is your peak current draw then?
@@pssound9749 50 amps according to the ammeter.
@@hiresaudiocosta873 and you have double 0ga? 😃 Man, you’re the perfect example why videos like this have to be shared!
35 to 45 amps
great now im wondering how much my system actually pulls .. I have 2 4 channel ! mono HAHAHAH this will be interesting im using 0 awg too. I was very anal about it too! I wanted nothing but 0 ..
It’s not wrong to have it, just good to be in the position to understand the actual power requirements.
@@pssound9749 exactly bro. Before getting access to patreon i had no idea ahahaha😂😂😂
45-50 amps maybe?
50-60
*edit*
I jumped in as soon as you said,”drop a line” I saw the “1.5k” I thought it was the draw with a 1.5k amp on the sub… as the rest of the system is little more than idle current.
I would have still thought it would be more, playing dynamic.
I guess 40Amps
Ok I really need to measure my system and will do this week. I got an active front end but with 4 8" woofers at 1kW amp and subs at 3kW amp.
40 - 50
I’m gonna say 35.6 Amps at full tilt
30A
20-25 amps
40-50 amps
100a music or 200 burp sine wave
50
I'll say 30 - 40 amps at full
110amps
My guess is that it pulls 145 amps full tilt.
We shall see.
I guess you saw that you were very far from that! 😃
max 20A :)
max 35A
20amp
43
20 amps
37 Amp's
I'm going to guess for the full system, 180W.
Now I will watch the video and see how wrong I am haha
I actually wasn't too far off!
This is why I find it so ludicrous when people insist they 'need' 6.5" midbass drivers with like 3.5mm of xmax to run off 400W rms bridged amp channels, and their subs off 1,000W+ RMS amps, in SQ systems. Because "headroom".
Your midbass drivers probably see 30-35W RMS of actual power in daily listening IF YOU'RE LUCKY so even running a 75 WPC amp you alreqady have like 2x the power for headroom. If you want to be really big 2 x 150 will give yhou probably 4x -5x more power available then you'l actually use.
I used to be part of this same mentality, but I heard a high end system running a single 12" Rainbow sub off a 70W Sinfoni monoblock and it did not lack either output nor accuracy/control. Likewise I have run 8 ohm drivers in a system off an old-school Rockford 4.6x - tha tamp was ratred at something like 45W per channel @ 4ohm, so it must have been 30W if that at 8ohm...and even with gains down, if I turned that system up, my ears would hhurt long before the speakers or amps would.
Hell I even once ran a front stage active off the internal amp on my Ecipse CD8455 head unit and it still got quite loud - and those head units aren' rated at much more then 30W RMS or so per channel.
People just dont realise how little power it takes to drive any resonably efficient speaker loudly. Threres a reason why Dayton sell < 100W RMS subwoofer amps in the home audio market (and they sell quite a few of them too).
130
13.8v 108 amps 12v 125 amps my gues peter.
20 amp
30 amps
Play a sine wave then show regular listening
He did that, watch the damn video lol
Around 7:40
60A