New Evidence on Theory of 'Black Box' Being Switched Off | SY News Ep314
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- Опубликовано: 28 мар 2024
- #superyacht #superyachts #yachts #boats
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The fact that the police were able to shut the bridge down 30 seconds after they were notified is truly amazing. They very likely saved multiple lives with their quick action.
It was because of the workers on the bridge. They'd set up a reduced speed zone while they were working so the police were already at both ends to enforce it.
Nothing "amazing", about it...They were already there directing traffic...
I mean, I'm glad they responded that quickly and weren't taking a mandated union break, but there would be workers on each side of the bridge. Pretty sure it's standard practice across the US.
Wasn't the police. Every major bridge has a set of gates and stoplights that can be activated in a couple seconds by an operator who receives a report of an accident or, in this case, a pending accident.
@@JohnHansknecht- Not true at all. Unless it's a toll bridge there are no gates on bridges in the US.
Just for clarification, "the VDR stopped recording information" means the INPUTS to the VDR stopped sending data, not that the VDR was in anyway offline, as confirmed by the continuous BVR recording..
exactly
Correction, some are equipped with internal sensors independently powered by the black box itself.
Investigate the sensors available in your smart phone. Without being tethered to a car, your smartphone can track temp, air pressure, gps location, speed, etc... For something that carries billions of dollars worth of freight, I guarantee that black box has a lot more information than what we will be privy to.
As a VDR surveyor the VDR never stops recording until its internal battery is depleted. It records Serial data from sensors, video from radar/ecdis and bridge audio. When it goes to internal battery power ONLY audio is recorded. Simple as that. No mystery. Of course if someone switches off the AC, DC and internal battery it is dead. It does NOT have any internal sensors. Sensor input can be serial, analog or current interfaces. Cruise ships have hundreds of inputs. It is just a data recorder, a marinised PC with interfaces.…….the name gives it away.
Yeh, ive been explaining this as imagine a CCTV setup where the cameras have their own power supply, power to a camera fails, the cctv keeps recording a dead channel
@@justinbailey6515 The NTSB media person expressed her dismay that ship VDR recorders only gives some very basic information. This is not a technical problem but probably still remains because ship owners don't want it. It will expose them to a higher level of accountability.
It is probably more correct to say “During the blackout period the VDR recorded that there was no sensor data being received.” Easy to explain as you said as there wasn’t any sensor data.
Precisely.
Anyone with experience operating recording devices understands that when the equipment feeding your recorder lose power you are still recording, but get a blacked out signal with only the very low level background noise of the system noise floor.
@@wathaet1386 so losing power means , losing electrical power in this context? this due to a problem with electricity supply to those devices which transmit ? guess we don't know why electic power ceased? ships engines ceased? problem in wiring etc?? It was then restored. via backup generator? or restarting engines?
@@Sagewynpower means elecricty supply. This comes from separate Diesel generators. There should have been 2 of these running in these circumstances. All power was lost. Either both generators stopped running, or something caused the breakers (fuse box) to trip off. With no power nothing on the ship is working, except for things that have their own backup battery, like the VDR. The steering cannot work without power. The engine cannot run without power. The emergency backup generator started up automatically but it took about a minute for things to come back on. The steering can be operated on emergency power but it takes longer to turn the rudder than when full power is running. The problem was that the one minute power cut happened at just the wrong moment, and by the time they were able to turn the rudder away from the bridge it was too late to avoid the collision.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191
Did they reverse the propeller action? When a ship propulsion goes astern, the rudder becomes useless.
@@gervaisbilodeau8465 Some people think they did, because of the black smoke and because the speed dropped a bit. But the smoke may have been from the generators starting up. The slow down might have been due to not running forward and the anchor. We won't know for sure until the NTSB release more info from the VDR.
Rudder depends on water flow over it. How much you lose in reverse depends on rudder and propeller configuration. Since the ship was still moving through the water quickly there may have still been a lot of water flowing over the rudder, even if the engine was running in reverse.
Thank you eSysman. Not only for the time getting the facts straight and putting them here, but for your explanations which apply to ALL manner of 'news and events' of why primary sources are so important, as well as how easy it is to promote misinformation even without bad intentions. As always, your videos are professionally done, and good to watch. Hope you have a terrific Easter weekend, and get plenty of rest. Obviously you've been needing to burn the midnight oil in order to keep these videos coming at such a rate. One added thought, your technical expertise is very useful here.
Seeing social media about the recorder drove me nuts. The NTSB press conference was on their RUclips channel. It still recorded voice even when the power went out since all the sensors were without power
Can someone please explain why a power outage caused the engines to stop? I thought it was the engines that provided the electrical power?
Russia stirring up chaos and malcontent. We have learned from the recently rolled-up misinformation network in the Czech Republic that this is what they do.
@@BigBlue1895that is a very good question. I am not in the shipping business so I don’t know how it works, but as an aviator, I find that unusual. My aircraft can have a complete loss of generator outputs and the engines and flight controls will continue to function and be controllable although in a degraded and less responsive manner. I’m surprised the ship would not have a similar capability.
@flightdata101 I just assumed it would be a similar system (different scale obviously) to a car where the engine drives the alternator. Maybe the host can respond and educate us?
The propulsion unit on a merchant vessel needs fuel & lubricating oil pumps, sea & fresh cooling water pumps, blowers along with a host of other components that need electrical power to run. So once the electrical generators go off, believe me the stillness, silence & darkness in the Engine room until the emergency generator or standby generator comes on is deafening
Thanks for this. It’s extremely useful for those of us with very little direct experience of shipping. Plus it’s an antidote to the conspiracy nonsense.
Never say conspiracy theories are nonsense. They are speculation and (often) proven correct over time. Regardless they hold the heat to the powerful until the truth is known.
A big YES heard one stupid ( Tic-toc) conspiracy idiot say that charges went off on bridge spans, as he is pointing out red marine navigation lights and high voltage ⚡ lines coming apart. Anyone who sees power get interrupted with power outages can see lots of sparks from voltage being cut wires down from any live power poles
It just blows my mind why people out there just start doing videos to the public like this. Just so sad people who have no knowledge about shipping, do video with pure and blatantly LIES, just do it to get more watchers.
@CNNate1,,WOW, what a great bunch of "Conspiracy Theories" Weidos, Yall, need to find tune YOUR brain antennas, to achieve a better signal, from yo boy Alex Jones, of "InfoBurnouts", so YOU can get a better space signal, from YOUR NWO , boy, Klaus Schwab
Can you please explain what the conspiracy nonsense is exactly? Thanks
@@BigBlue1895 Your comments are irrelevant, no facts are in evidence, you are cautioned about "improper thinking", and all your comments will be stricken from the record, thanks for playing, you lose
This has to be the channel offering true facts and not guesstimate. Excellent.
Educated guessing is all anyone can do if information isn't released
@@dynjarren5454 National Security reasons. This Channel and What Happening with Shipping may need to end, as the data by these non professional is of little value.
I respect your expert opinion on a difficult and complex subject, very much appreciate, your Vlog, well done.
I am an ex Marine Engineer, sailed on different types of vessels inclusive Cape size bulk carriers. I also involved in ship building for about 5 years and now retired. To my knowledge when a blackout experienced on board a cargo ship, either the emergency generator or standby main Auxiliary engine should start within 30 seconds or if a battery bank is equipped, system should start and power must be stored within 45 seconds as per SOLAS. At the same time all emergency equipments (ie: Navigation lights, Radio equipments, VDR, emergency lighting in ECR, Bridge, Steering room and other essentials) must be operative. But I do not see any lights switched on this ship after the first or second blackout. Ships are equipped with emergency manuring system and they may have not attempted same. On the other hand ship was heading through a narrow channel without tug assistance causing this disaster which could have saved billions of dollars.
You seem to be a nice person, so I'll make some changes to your statement. replace manuring with maneuvering, we have enough manure going around on the internet already. Power must be restored. Maintenance is the most likely culprit here, but I get the feeling that more training in emergency procedures would be a good idea. These comments are from my own experience. What I see from my seat 2,000 miles away is a chinese fire drill. We speculated that they tried to go in reverse, but you can't really tell from my armchair.
I have the same questions you do, but as a farmer-aspiring-to-marine-engineer, I have to ask how an "emergency manuring system" works.
Yes your solas system analysis is correct - in the video when you see the first black out ( all Nav lights visible [ ie the two masthead and green starboard light) and the forecastle flood light and deckacessway lights go off ( a dead ship - indicating a main switchboard trip), then some lights comes back on , it is the Navigating lights ( mastheads and side light) and some deck acessway lights (ie emergency deck lighting) but the Forecastle flood light does not come on - I am sure as per solas this is Emergency Generator kicking in and the Emergency Systems repowering. You then see the start of black smoke out the funnel ( Rich air fuel mix) on Main start, then you see the Forecastle Flood light come back on ( main power re established), during the second black out - the Navigation Lights stay on but the Flood light goes off ( indicating the Main switch tripped again, but the emergency circuit was still running. Noticeably the Black Smoke is still belching so the main engine didn't stop during the second blackout - and the continued belching of black smoke suggests Load on the Engine. I am pretty sure the First black out was a Main Switchboard trip causing the Maine Engine auxiliaries (lubrication & fuel pumps) to stop causing the main engine EMS to trip a safety shut down. But the second Blackout looks like another Main Switchboard Trip - that was caught before it triggered another Engine Trip Shutdown - what would cause the Main switchboard to trip without seeing the EMS alarm logs I am not Sure. ( my old ship Sulzers were temperamental at time but not as computer managed so our Ginger Beers had to do run around the Engine room.)
@@tedmoss If you have nothing relevant to say, donlt say anything.
@@gigglingdingo At least someone on here knows their way around an engine room. Never sailed on a bad ship that had a Sulzer.
Totally agree with your analysis.
Your information makes a lot more sense than all of the "theories". Bravo E!
You "theory haters" all suffer from "normalcy bias" as Alex Jones would say.
You mean that idiot Marjorie Taylor Green’s theory😜?
I'm perplexed. for a number of years I was a Power and Control Systems Tech on an FPSO, which was converted from a norwegian build super tanker. With all the backup DC systems on board on a modern vessel I struggle to believe that the loss of AC power would stop the status signals updating from the various critical systems. I just cant believe that the Voyage Data Recorder would be so vulnerable to AC loss.
Yes , there is fodder for conspiracy theorists here. But I worked on emergency backup equipment, and it is my opinion that they tend to fail when needed.
@@tedmoss fodder for conspiracy deniers here indeed. IF you understood the first thing about NTSB investigations, they use the process of elimination. you don't start with your conclusion and work towards confirmation.
is it normal to make a public press release hours after an incident announcing ANY finding?
@@tedmoss one safeguard against failure is periodical maintenance checks. And having worked in shipyards in Asia and the Middle East I can vouch that some so called 'Technicians' will sign off a test as successful rather than report that it failed, or, report that it was beyond their comprehension to test it properly. And that's regardless of how critical the system was.
@@noelwhittle7922 Indeed, Abrahamic culture, especially the Mohammedan variety, is incredibly fatalistic and egotistical. That's why they don't advance to Greco-Roman standards.
^I was asked to review the above comment for "community guidelines" purposes. Does that say anything about who is protected? F you, Tube. Really.
the VDR will still be on when the ship was alongside as crews don't turn them off. May help understand the blackouts the ship had when in port.
I love this channel because the moderator is so clear and balanced in his comments. I really come away with a better understanding of what is going on. Thank you.
This is really great commentary. It is also very commendable that you go back and correct/update information from your previous video when you discover new information. Very respectable.
Outstanding metaphor with police and drivers - who is in command? Perfect.
eSysman Super Yatchs, I have extensive training in marine operations for large vessels of up to 180,000 DWT, which is as much as twice as the M/V Dali 90,000 DWT. According to my knowledge and understanding of this type of departure operation of a vessel motoring on a channel and a fairway clear of traffic, It looks very odd what happened to the M/V Dali. I would suggest to further the ongoing investigation the NTSB is doing, and clear out all of the possible causes of that accident, bst rgs
Lol
Who would investigate?
The ones who did it ?
Your funny
@@user-db2fb1db1m Adolf, the FBI already got involved in the investigation of the accident, for you to know, rgs
Here in Maine, and other places, you must have a pilot and tug boats near infrastructure for that very reason.
Almost 50 years with no issues. But with DEI incompetence increasing at a rapid rate, more safety measures will probably became common.
You don't in San Francisco and other areas. All areas are different.
@@ohsweetmysterySeek some professional help. It's a foreign vessel; it has nothing to do with DEI. India crews have been involved in shipping for a long time; you don't know what you are even talking about. Unfortunately, you just can't fix stupid.
There's not only the VDR that is recording data, the Engine Control Room (ECR) systems are also logging every event and alarm. after a blackout and the power is back to normal the ECR recorders can have a list of several hundred alarms and events. these can and are printed to continuous paper sheet.
The engine controls haven’t had printers or printer interfaces in decades. They will just be logged to hard drive or flash memory.
All cargo ships ER Alarm Monitoring systems have printers. This is provided so that in case of major power failure with the monitors, the engineers will be able to see the printout & trace the fault.
@@sphilips5235 No power equals no printouts either. That’s why alarm printers were dropped - complete waste of power and energy and a fire hazard to boot.
No sir, printers & alarm monitoring systems also have their own ups. Have sailed on merchant vessels ( ULCC, VLCC, Chemical & product tankers) for 33 years of which 20 years as Chief Engineer
This ship was built in 2015, so it's got to have UMS status. The ECR contol automation and alarm system will be on UPS's. Without the main switchboard or the E Buss powered up you'll still be monitoring remote sensors since they are powered by the UPS. They should also pull the alarms from the engine management system of all the auxillary DG's and the EDG. They should get the alarm logs from each main switch control on the main switchboard and the EBus including the buss-tie breaker. When the lights go out, the bridge VDR is pretty much useless - you'll hear a string of "WTF's" and "Oh sh1tz", and the ship's bridge will soon realize that their only along for the ride.
the follow up came so quickly I never watched the first Black Box video. Keep up the good work!
As a retired Electronic Design Splst, I have to make a note that most sensors are not dependent on any power other than the power of the data recorder that they are connected to. Some sensors send their own power, because of temperature differences as a thermocouple or a solar cell for light or darkness. Any sensor would NEVER be dependent upon ships general power, but the power of the Data Recorder. To disable a sensor, a wire must be intentionally severed. Hmm, then it must be reconnected to resume recording? How does that happen while the VDR is still working?
I think we're never going to know the real story; I just wish Paul Harvey were here to give us "The Rest of the Story."
If the sensor is connected to a device such as the AIS unit, and the AIS unit loses power, then no data is recorded.
You always provide the most accurate information which is why I look for your posts. I appreciate that you explain any discrepancies of interpretation quickly and thoroughly. While this is a sensational story and is bound to have all sorts of theories and lots of blame, it was the conclusion of a series of unfortunate mechanical issues and not enough time to correct them. My initial thoughts were that tugs should remain with the vessel until it passed under the bridge but, if it is normal to be at 8+ knots at that point, tugs would not be very effective at correcting the heading in time either. It is fortunate that traffic was light at the time and that the call was made to prevent access to the bridge before the crash! Thoughts and prayers for the families of those who were lost and injured!
It's so nice to have someone with nautical experience explain how things really work. It's sometimes not that easy to get the correct news from what is being reported by news people who aren't up on maritime law. Thanks!
This brings out an extreme problem we have with news services in this country. Everyone seems to want to make a big name as to having discovered a conspiracy when in reality they didn't listen to what was said. The data recording system was not turned off. It didn't record anything because there was nothing to record. All the functions of the ship were turned off due to loss of electrical power. The voice part continued to be recorded so you know the system was turned on. News services or reporters who give out false or misleading info should be severely fined. This was just one horrible accident. It was truly amazing that with only about 90 seconds warning they were able to stop highway traffic on that bridge. I saw a semi truck just going out of sight when the collision occurred.
There are many politicians that benefit from the “conspiracy” nonsense. That’s where they originate
The fact remains, if this is the system used, it is a shitty system indeed.
@@tedmoss Yep.
A design principle of 'black boxes' is that they can't be switched off. A design flaw is that input data stops when power fails. When power fails is when the data is most needed.
Most data systems have an uninterrupted power supply for this very scenario. I don’t know if ships do?
@@tomredaintdead9575 The voice recorder, but the data sensors are routed through the bridge and that has no UPS. BAD DESIGN.
@@robertpearson8546bad design
Gimmie
$150 and I’ll agree
Thank you for updating this. So much crap is being said on various outlets and YT vlogs.
A reporter with no technical background in shipping - I'M SHOCKED!
At the start of situations like this I browse through the news offerings available and who's got latest. Doesn't take long to figure out my top tier 'go to' channels. Never heard of you before this but enjoying your informative presentations.
Another good job explaining the situation. Some of the reports I've watched had no idea what they were talking about from reporting explosions on the roadway bridge away from the position of the collision to all kinds of crazy things on the ship and it's bridge. From listening to your channel, I knew much more than the reporters and from being a civil engineer, I knew more about the other bridge. Why they both are called bridges is another matter.
It's always good to hear from someone who knows what he's talking about.
Here's what happened. When the power went down the pilot lost steerage as it is a fly by wire system. He then called for full astern. That is the plume of black smoke from the funnel. That was a mistake. When the ship engaged full astern it began what we call a prop walk. The stern moves to port and the bow moves to starboard. There was too much way on the ship to stop before the bridge. It was doing 8kts prior to the power outage and 6kts when it hit. If the pilot had not engaged astern it would have continued on its course through the middle of the span.
please cling to that theory. i'll wait for THE experts to announce things more pertinent like rudder positions.
let me guess, you once owned an outboard?
@@mkuehn5450 Smart arse. I have owned 17 boats and 7 dairy farms and 4 yacht charter companies and am a licensed captain delivered boats around the world.
@@rogerprout5574 so you owned an outboard.
got it.
impressive string of failures, by the way.
@@mkuehn5450 go take a look in the mirror at the village idiot
@@rogerprout5574 That's a pretty impressive resume. Can I assume that you are not just another internet smartarse, like me?
Thanks for covering this accident and reporting the facts as they become available and correcting errors that made it into the media and other channels. Much respect.
Down in the engine room we had to log anything unusual back in the ‘80’s. Especially while manuvering. Often we would log bump felt during berthing. I am not sure what I would have logged in this case.
You did mention the black smoke being emitted by the ship as being normal under operation, this can be a symptom of engine overload, I would say that this black smoke is being produced due to hard astern operations trying to slow the vessel, great detailed description of the information very clear what you have explained.
Turbocharger lag as the engine is started astern. The turbocharger cannot get enough air into the engine for combustion and unburnt carbon is emitted from the funnel. Also the propeller would have slipped for a while and in the time available there was no chance of significantly slowing the ship.
@@tomarmstrong5244 One would think the engine would have been on to propel the boat out of the harbor. To do otherwise seem counter intuitive and false.
The engine is directly connected with the fixed blade propellor and must be stopped, and the engine must reconfigure valves cams and fuel timing in order to reverse. @@debi5292
@@debi5292 Yes but the plant (diesel engine) went down (stopped). Perhaps attempts were made to restart it. Perhaps there was no time. Perhaps it was restarted and put in reverse, because the ship slowed before it hit. We don't know yet, that is one of the details not mentioned or at least not clear yet.
The black smoke can also signal that they are trying to restart the engine.
Spot on commentary. Very informational.
Thanks for the correct way to get the exact details so far on this terrible accident. How or why did it come to loose total power assume generator shut down or mcb tripped. Hope some answers come soon . Take care and nice to see you give us the correct info.
I loved the. Traffic Cop analogy. Well thought out and pertinent.
Learn from the past. Look at the gigantic concrete bunkers that protect the replacement Sunshine Skyway bridge after the collapse from a ship strike in the '80's.
They were too cheap and lazy to install them here, even when they knew it could be an issue. They took a risk (gambled) and lost. They bring in millions in port fees annually. I wonder where all that money goes? I imagine they are now wishing they would have spent some of it on concrete pylons to protect the flimsy and vulnerable design of this bridge.
take 1 second and look at the position of the dolphins on the new bridge or even the Betsy Ross bridge. The path of the Dali would have missed the dolphins and still collided with the bridge. Dolphins would have to be erected completely encircling the piers in order to protect them; not just in front.
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH Starting with the design and replacing it with a tunnel might be a good start.
@@tedmoss or single span suspension bridge.
@@jp-ty1vd Take an aerial look at the Tampa Bay (Sunshine-Skyway) bridge and you'll see that the bridge piers are completely (360 degrees) encircled. I traveled those waters many times and a ship can't reach the piers a) because of the massive concrete bunkers, b) because of the pier protection and c) the ship would run aground outside the shipping channel.
The NTSB said they found no video data in the bridge (ships bridge) Why not ? I have a dashcam ($100) on my car recording everything I see while driving
You are pointing out obvious faults that should be corrected, I wonder when?
because the cover up just so happens to exclude the most important parts
@@dfish3585seek some professional help, there was no cover-up.
Thank you , Thank you, Thank you. Finally somebody noticed and corrected a huge misinterperation of what the NTSB said and what the various commenters put out there. Awesome
The Dali has 4 main generators = emergency generator.. If you run three on line the 4th main generator should be set to stand- by. The emergency generator came on which means that the 4th generator was unavailable or was not on stand-by. To lose three generators you have to have a catastrophic failure , the failure on one generator should cause the other generator to stop. If that causes a blackout then the 4th generator should start followed by the remaining generator that did not cause the initial blackout coming on automatically within a minute.. I was in Hyundai. Heavy Industries shipyard when the Dali was built. The vessel I was commissioning was not accepted on hire. It had one generator fail on a blackout test, failed to restart due to a fault the other generators unaffected.
Why did the pilot issue rudder commands when the ship was still safely in the channel? What were the commands?
The ship was drifting out of the channel. If your car starts drifting out of its lane you don’t wait until it hits the curb before making a correction.
The voice recording on the VDR and data recording will have captured the actual commands ordered and helmsman confirmed - a technique that is sometimes used to help slow a ship is called Rudder Cycling ( 20 degrees to port (or hard to Port) and immediately 20 degrees to Starboard ( or Hard to Starboard)) - The aim being that the drag caused by the increasing the rudder face in to the water flowing past the rudder slows the ship without actually changing the heading significantly - That is a method but when so close to the bridge I suspect the NTSB was loose in their words and the pilot might had asked the Helms man to steer a course to steer( ie 141 degrees) so as to keep the bow up wind and to left of the mid channel. The NTSB's Language is likely referring to the back and forth about whether the ship was responding to Helm ( ie was the helmsman having to apply more and more rudder to keep the ordered heading.
@@gigglingdingo Thanks. That's the best explanation I've heard so far and makes sense. I guess the power going out when the rudder was to starboard while cycling is what caused it to veer right. The ship was in the channel when the power went out, so I can't help wondering if it was even necessary to scrub off speed cycling the rudder at all, especially given the short distance to the bridge and being very unlikely to have been able to stop it before it reached it. At least coast under the bridge first, then once clear, try to stop the ship where they had more room.
@@allangibson8494It would have been better to drift aground out of the channel than hit the bridge support head-on. Everything does not add up. Add to that the 2 other bridge mishaps over the weekend.
@@RealPackCat The MV Dali had no control. The steering was locked in position at the moment power was lost.
My thought is this, if as said a power outage on the ship, that means the rudder of the ship can't be moved, it stays in the position that it's in, you see the video the ship without question is heading towards the opening between the two bridge supports, but not too soon after the ship makes an abrupt turn that causes contact with the bridge support. As it has been said an anchor was dropped on the right side of the ship, would you not make an all out effort to keep the ship in the direction its going to prevent any sudden turns? The ship was on a perfect line to go between the bridge supports. It's that abrupt turn(yes the anchor was dropped) maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the abrupt turn should have happened.
There are various reasons it could happen with the use of a rudder, but the turn was only 11 degrees according to AIS…
That anchor would drag thru river mud it would never have had enough grab to turn a ship,loaded,of that size so quickly.
The intermittant power seems to be solely for the purpose of powering up to ensure bridge support contact.
The black smoke belching out is indicative of max power being applied.
If that power was applied to astern direction the water cavitation would be visibly obvious.
The simple answer is usually the right one and the simple answer is it rammed that bridge on purpose.
The anchor was dropped on the port side or the left if your not familiar
@@grahamcourt1914And trying to restart the engine without engine room ventilation and pressurisation fans also produces black smoke.
Don’t assume conspiracy when simple incompetence produces the same result.
@@allangibson8494 not even close,but nice try. The force of that black plume is from a full throttle fuel pour. The fire dampers were not engaged. The proof of power being engaged is proven by the vessels course change. The black smoke is due to the main not being sufficiently heated enough to combust all the fuel being dumped.
Why are you so invested in the narrative?
That clears up some of my questions. I remember way back when I was in the Navy. I was a radarman on board a ship. When the pilot came on board the old man always paced the deck. Some pilots were good to deal with and he liked that. Then there were the in-control pilots, those guys he detested and paced furiously. You are correct, the old man is ultimately responsible for his command, pilot or no pilot.
In my days in the British Merchant Navy the log entry said “to Master’s orders and Pilot’s advice” these were in the days before data logging so all commands were recorded manually (usually by a cadet or 3rd off) as they were issued
So...
What exactly were the rudder commands by the pilot at 1:26 when power first came back?
Because on the video it is clearly seen that at that precise time the ship started turning right towards the pillar of the bridge (prior to 1:26, during blackout, the ship was clearly going straight and would have missed the pillar).
So, did the pilot give the command to steer right?
Or did the bridge crew make a mistake and turned right when the pilot made a command to turn left?
Or did the ship magically start turning right on its own?
Wonder if anyone's RUclips channel would be in danger, if they suggested the possibility of something other than specifically stated within NTSB official media presentation...
They are all a bunch of crooks and "Yes men".... They are still trying to decide if twisted metal beams brought down airliners on 9-11
Very professional report. Thank you.
Thank you for yet another outstanding update. For my opinion, I shall remain silent until more information comes out.
Were the pilot and captain of the ship give sobriety tests immediately
Given what happened they and probably the whole crew were 10000% chemical tested.
That was fantastic and as usual! You always do a brilliant work! Thank you very much! I have never done professional yachting or commercial work and it is great to get an insight into it all!
FyI the legal argument about contribution of blame/ Liability based on the chain of contributory events are likely to be at least: 1) the ship owner's Insurer for the initial Back Out cause, 2) The responsible authority for the bridge protection barriers ( they were ineffective/ an out of date standard), 3) the Port authority - for Port procedures concerning when tug are required and port speeds, 4) whether the Pilots actions where with out fault ( while he did a lot of good, any Astern order will be heavily argued as causing the swing starboard - when possibly doing nothing or kicking the engine ahead when engine came back on would have got the Ship clear under the bridge.) Mearsk as charterer will have some protections under contract but the ship owners( insurers) will argue that because of the port procedures and poor standard of limited bridge barrier protection the port was unsafe for the ship - so Maerske may have to indemnify the Ship owner's ( insurance) losses.
Why are there always people trying to prove things other than what actually happened when they know nothing about what actually happened. They are just jumping to conclusion.
That's just how some people think, it's just like iterations of theory until disproved, it's probably not malicious.
The federal government stated NO "bad actors" involved after doing absolutely NO investigation. How could they possibly know? They couldn't, therefore, they lied to us. Plain and simple. You can keep believing your government if you want. I want to know what they are saying, but I'll look elsewhere for the truth! But NOT the MSM! That's for sure. And, believe me, the truth IS out there. But you have to hunt for it most times.
Maybe some people are just critical thinkers and don't believe all the propaganda and bullshit the media and government feeds us and expect us to accept it as gospel truth.
If the media and government say one thing, you can bet it is just the opposite.
Great video... My best guess is that someone gundecked some maintenance and checks, or rushed some procedures.
If shipping is anything like trucking the person that signed off on the pre-trip inspection is responsible for this catastrophe. Reports only hours after the collapse said that crew members and dock workers said they experienced total power loss on the ship before she departed the berth so this was a known problem. Whoever decided to head out regardless of an intermittent electrical problem is gonna have some serious explaining to do.
Shipping is not quite like China of Responsibility in Trucking loads. For example in relation the ship operations ( nb: not the port operations), the ship Chareterer ( leaser) determines the port an cargo and supplies fuel and other necessities. Before departure, the Duty Engineer prepares the Main engine ( Fuel, lubirciation, Engine temp, Systems line up) - take about an hour, a junior engineer prepares the Generators, both under supervision of the 1st engineer, the Duty Deck officer ( often the 3rd mate deck officer) does the pre departure bridge equipment checks ( including testing the engine by kicking it ahead and astern with the engine room and the helm), the second officer usually sets up the Navigations system and passage route, the Chief officer ( aka 1st mate) completes Ballasting for drafts , cargo ops and lashing supervision( done with the Bosun and Deck crew checking the stevedore fitted lashings) and stability calculations for departure/ the voyage., The Chief Engineer supervises the Engine room preparedness and the Master supervises the Deck officer preparations and is ultimately responsible for all Deck, Engineers and Crew.
Excellent introduction. Nice road map. Love it when I know what to expect from a video. I am not a yachtie. I am lucky I could spell yacht. Excellent coverage. Fair and balanced. Nice job. When are you gonna cover GTS or GT3 😊
They are trying to dupe everybody. I've looked at 8 of these videos. They all talk about times and speeds and procedures etc. None of any of this is relevant. None of it matters. The problem was that ALL of the POWER ON THE SHIP WENT OUT. THREE TIMES. I haven't heard a single explanation of HOW or WHY the power may have went out. This is particularly odd since the boat had operated without any problems from the time it left the dock until it was a short distance from the bridge about 30 minutes later. Then all hell broke loose. A narrative about backup generators, data recorders, pilots, how a ship moves when the anchor is dropped, how the propellers direct the boat, and dozen of other worthless pieces of trivia are MEANINGLESS without THE LIGHTS WENT OUT. This is slight of hand. Ignore the man behind the curtain.
Good points. That is why I will NEVER design a ship, boat, or machine without manual overrides.
The Zionists and Zelensky not getting their war payments on time seem more plausible than any of the bullshit we have been fed for the last week. Why was the ship on the side of the channel BEFORE the power went out?
taking command is also taking legal liability, so it is very unusual for a captain take command with a pilot on the bridge. Sailors are hyper sensitive to having to go to court instead of on vacation during their valuable time off work
eSysman - You have an incredible ability to communicate the facts with clarity. ......A rarity now a days.
Thank you sir.
Thank you E Sysman,
Replying to my comment regarding the port anchor issue. Apparently the order to let go the port anchor was given as recorded by the VDR, unfortunately it was carried out in delayed time as shown by video recordings, access to the port windlass is still available after impact.
The video shows clearly that access to the stbd windlass is no longer available after impact.
A diving operation near the port bow of the ship will reveal the exact position on the seabed or below if embedded in the mud, the NTSB should insist on such inspection, if they have not already done so.
I am also fully aware that the anchor would not stop the ship on time, but as you know from all safety management and emergency response manuals in place nowadays on all merchant vessels, it is our duty as ship masters and pilots to take emergency actions immediately, for time is not our friend on such occasions.
In the VDR audio recordings where exactly is the audible order from the pilot regarding “hard a port” to the helmsman if in manual steering as it should be and the acknowledged order by the man at the wheel. Where.?…
Where in the VDR are the orders from the Captain or Pilot for engines “Full Astern” and the bridge response to such an order.
In the previous video it does not show the wake near the stern to indicate a reverse thrust prior to impact.
May I take a moment to congratulate you on your professional reporting on this matter.
I feel for my fellow seafarers as we all do not wish anything like this to happen to anyone.
Thank you.
As was stated yesterday, the engines were never restarted. The heavy black smoke is likely the emergency diesel generators starting up cold, so a cold diesel revving high produces a lot of black smoke.
Were bow thrusters activated either directly or remotely? That huge ship changed course quite rapidly at just the wrong time.
Still no statement of wind,tide and river current. Why not?
The wind was reported. It was negligible. River current was irelivant unless it was running across the river. Either the tide was running in in which case it would slow the ship's speed, or it was running out which would increase the speed. Neither of these two conditions would explain a hard turn to starboard especially as the reports say that the port anchor was dropped and the order was given of a hard to port turn was given by the pilot.
After hearing all these conspiracy theories about the ship in addition to those of recent years - humanity is doomed.
You won't be saying that when the Shape Shifting Lizard Aliens reveal themselves. 😊
@@user-pj5ub5cp9kwe do not call ourselves that, however you are “doomed”.
Thankyou Great Clarification of the Accident on the Baltimore Water Ways
Appreciate the information, thanks for your efforts man. Be well! G'day from Down Under.
How does a ship that big lose power? Why did the ship change course when it lost power? The ship should have kept going straight. Don't they have safety checklists before they take off? Two plus two is not adding up to four.
You would think there would be a statutory requirement for hot N+1 generator operation where pilot attendance is needed. That would mean at least two synchronised generators each at
There are probably dozens of things that could cause a ship to lose power. How does an entire city lose power? It happens, and there are various reasons. You've obviously never been on the ocean. Wind and currents are part of the answer to your navigation question.
It was an accident. That’s it that’s all.
Thank You well done!
A backup system for controlling the rudder would have been helpful
It would be refreshing for a Washington DC agency to tell the public the unvarnished assessment (IOW not lie to them). But the real conspiracy here is that, in this very busy port, an event such as this wasn't anticipated and measures taken, especially seeing how flimsy that bridge proved to be.
Conspiracy or setting priorities for limited funds based on probability. Managers have to deal with these questions daily and cost-benefit analysis is a real thing considered by designers and planners on every aspect of every project.
@@chrisjohnson6765 I'm thinking the cost-benefit sheet they used to NOT protect this very important, very busy port has been shredded given what happened. Many lesser bridges have better protection.
@@p.o.4339Hindsight is always keener. Cost-benefit would see this situation as so unlikely as to be statistically improbable especially with the straight wide shot through the bridge. The fact that it happened doesn’t change the analysis. Many lesser bridges have no protection as well. Probably doesn’t help that Baltimore has been on the ropes for a long time and is billions in the hole. The federal government is functionally bankrupt as well, so solutions aren’t readily available given the huge costs.
I'm sure there will be an inquiry...a truthful on I hope. And do not include any advise from those who thought this improbable. If "cost/benefit" were the standard, NO bridges would have protection, yet many smaller less important one do. So much for statistics.
@@p.o.4339 You have to take into account who paid for them and when they were built. Cost benefit is always the standard although when politics come into play, the move that garners more power and votes pushes the scale. Fifty-year old bridges that don’t present a threat or garner votes don’t get millions from local funds…
Well, if it was nefarious we will know quickly enough when other events start to happen.
This would be how one nation attacks another in the modern age. Not with bombs, missles, or thousands of troops but with a team. A team with state of the art computers and tools to access the infrastructure of another nation. A small team doing more damage to the infrastructure, the economy of a nation that it would take decades to recover from.
There needs to be an air gap between all internal communications and the outside world. No waivers.
As usual, you are the go-to guy for story accuracy. Thank you.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Thanks for clearing up how the black box wasn’t shut off. What is bewildering to me as a former airline pilot is how ships don’t have to have a battery backup system capable of powering the bridge controls and powering a hydraulic pump that moves the rudder accordingly. Am I wrong? How can the bridge sensors not have a battery backup if only good for 60 minutes (long enough to steer toward safety while buying time to drop anchor and get tug assistance, etc.). While airliners have redundant electrical systems, they also have an emergency backup battery as well as a deployable ram air turban that can create electricity from the airflow outside the aircraft fuselage. While I’m not familiar with how much electricity can be produced from deploying a “water turbine” into only 8 mph of water flow, it seams odd that a huge ship could lose the ability for its electrical steering commands to fail to reach the rudder (and the black box). Perhaps we will see a new regulation requiring backup batteries to support steering. As on airplanes, the backup system should prioritize things like cutting off the electricity going to the galley, but not assuring steering even during a a failure of all generators seems to be a major design flaw. I suspect a small army of lawyers will be leasing additional office space in Baltimore soon. Please correct me if I’m mistaken. Thanks again for a great video!
The bridge of the ship does have a battery backup in this instance but it appears from what we know that it failed to operate, based on the fact the VDR went right to internal battery when they blacked out.
The ship has an emergency generator similar to the aircraft ground generator you use whilst in airports but it starts up after detecting a blackout and takes up to 45 seconds to kick in (45 seconds is mandated by IMO)
The power loss is where it all started . How can a ship that size loose power ? And from that moment the domino effect started .
Is blackout a common failure on ships, or even a rare one?
If not then probability of it to happen exactly before ship passes the bridge is close to none, however still possible off course.
Too many indians and not enough chiefs on board...😅
A black box that stops recording data, by definition, is NOT a black box. If power is lost, it just becomes a voice recorder. And we're supposed to believe the engineers designed it that way? Pull the other one!
And let's discuss the massive turn on power loss....... No power to the rudder, means the ship should have continued on course, not FREAKING MAKE A HARD TURN. Unless you are telling us that in the case of lost power, the rudder swings to extreme side lock position. Something that would require massive power to push the rudder against the tonnage of water flowing past it while it was going straight at 8 knots. Pull the other one!
This was a deliberate sabotage. Problem is, by whom? The chinese? The deep state? Israel? My guess is Sen Mitch McConnell's dead sister is deeply involved/ implicated.
🤦♂️
Jesus, did you watch the video? The "black box" never stopped recording, it stopped receiving the information it was supposed to. It kept running through a backup energy source.
Yes, no ship power means no power to the rudder, however, it would depend on where the rudder was pointed when the ship lost power. The turn has no definite explanation, but many say the crew pulled a crash astern maneuver in an effort to slow the ship by fully reversing it. This is possibly justified by the black smoke and the fact the ship turned starboard. The ship's bow turned right and the rear turned left. This is normal when you try to reverse the ship and you don't have rudder control to counteract it.
I do not believe it was a sabotage. There was quick action by police and there were distress calls. It just doesn't seem intentional, the right protocol was taken for the most part.
🤣
Just STOP 🛑
@@ksizzle1535 "The turn has no explanation", and there's the glaring problem. The turn has an explanation, we are still in the dark about it.
A "crash astern maneuver'? WTF?
Turn the rudder hard to starboard, gliding directly into the bridge, when gliding straight ahead would avoid it, in order to set the ship up for backing up? Crazy stupid, not reality.
The stern swings left when the bow swings right while moving forward. It is not what happens "when you try to reverse the ship" while moving forward.
Well, now you got me curious . What was the steering input data when power was restored? Maybe a before and after , this is where it was at before power loss , heres where it was when power cam back and was ordered to go to this , this is were it was when power was lost again ?
As always - awesome to get your highly experience input!
You provide expert interpretation of the facts as they become known. Thank you! I will share....
Outstanding, with the explanation of the blackbax on the Dali in Maryland . Your knowledge is of great value. Have watch many of your post since the Russia war had started. Explaining why all the Russian private ship were claimed by other countries. Great job, thank you
The video “Expert Ships Engineer Reacts to Baltimore Bridge Crash" discusses the prop-walk. This is the paddle-wheel effect when putting the engines in reverse, resulting the stern going to port and the bow to starboard.
point out in voice recording when reverse was ordered, i'll wait.
The term you are looking for regarding the Pilots power is "having the Conduct of the vessel". The Captain is always in command of the vessel, even when he/she is asleep.
Unless it is the SS Titanic
Nice to hear someone would correct a statement.
Thank you for the clarification
What I would really like to hear is the helm orders and telegraph movements.
Questions: Why two Pilots? Did the Dali have a starboard anchor? With a power loss can the anchor be free fallen? Time to bite in 50ft of water? In the video you see rapid increase in exhaust: Was there any backing thrust? Validity of reports that the Dali had lost power at times during their layover at the dock? What effects of wind and current: It appeared from the visual that the Dali left the north side of the channel and veered into the bridge piling. What speed would a ship like Dali need for steerage? It will be interesting to get more detail when the full audio recording is explained. Great report of what has been released.
great videos Sir. i look forward to them, usually learn something, and don't have to sleep at a Holiday Inn Express, cool beans.
I worked the Portland Ship Repair yard for years as a surface preparation and Coatings which is basically saying I was a painter I've seen hundreds of ships on Dry Dock my dad Grandpa great-grandpa my uncle were all longshoreman mainly at the Port of Portland in Portland Oregon what it all is going to come down to is the angle of the rudder is going to be a very important issue I don't think there's any conspiracies or any of that stuff everybody's trying to spin I think that what happened was sad and with the number of ships going in and out underneath that bridge it was probably bound to happen sooner or later but it's very obvious to see that the ship was more than likely thrown into reverse when they seen they were having all the problems and the angle of the rudder with the ship in reverse and the speed that it was going that meant the bow thrusters really weren't doing too much of anything and you have to act really fast in order to try to control the ship once it's moving through the water cuz it's huge and heavy it's going to all boil down to nobody did anything wrong I don't think I think that it's a sad thing that happened but I don't think it was intentional I think it might come down to the fact that the ship might not have been being taken care of very well everybody's in the making money and saving dollars and when it comes to stuff like that you can't save dollars and be safe at the same time but we'll see sorry there's no periods or any of that other stuff I'm not a secretary now I'm a truck driver and I'm driving down the highway right now with a 53-foot trailer behind me and the only thing I can do is voice to text and still be safe on the highway
It would be relatively expensive to upgrade every sensor on a large vessel so that each one continues to operate during a central power failure. Then theres the separate issue of having to periodically check and maintain every sensor, e.g. changing batteries, which would become fairly burdensome. So this will continue to remain an issue in future incidents.
Why the black smoke out of the stack? Why no direction change? Did the port anchor drop? This stinks to high heaven!
Thanks keeping it clear for us.
Thank you for your expert commentary!
You are working very accurately! Thank you, therefore!
Any thoughts as to why the stern turned so dramatically? Watched the Chesapeake crab fisherman, McFadden, who believes the ship was put into reverse with full throttle (black smoke) which would make the vessel’s stern move sideways.
Thanks for the update!
Good lad, watched your channel for a long time and could never fault the information youse have given over those years thank you
Expert reporting on this channel! Thank You
Well done. Great explanation! Thanks
It is clear that the pilot was quick to react to the sudden black out and by making that so important call to the bridge he (and the people on the bridge) did save lives. Unfortunately they could not save the lives of the workers, but am sure they did get the call to get out of there.
Unless someone shut down the power of the ship on purpose (which I don't think happened) this was a typical case of Murphy's law.
No, it was the Peter Principle.
The investigator should also look for the alarm log in engine room. It can pin point the root cause of the black out.
such a tragic accident and for those workers that lost their lives... but eSysman SuperYachts well done this was presented beautifully thank you and big thumbs up eSysman SuperYachts news