The Death of D&D
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Is our D&D community slowly destroying itself? From edition wars to online battles, we need to talk about what's really happening.
Our D&D community seems more divided than ever. I've been thinking a lot about this lately - how we've gotten here, and more importantly, where we're going. I don't want to rant about drama. I just want to take an honest look at how we can preserve what makes this hobby amazing.
As someone who remembers the blissful days before I knew what an "edition war" was, I want to share some thoughts on why we're seeing so much anger in the community, and how we might be able to channel that energy into something better.
Join the Adventurers Guild: / shortreststudios
Buy "Beneath the Black Spire": www.drivethrur...
More ways to support Short Rest Studios!
==========================
Join this channel
/ @shortreststudios
==========================
Short Rest Studios Merch: short-rest-stu...
==========================
Short Rest Studios PDFs: / shop
==========================
Join the Discord! / discord
==========================
My website: shortreststudi...
==========================
My DriveThruRPG Affiliate Link
www.drivethrur...
==========================
Shop D&D, DCC, my video equipment and more in on our Amazon storefront: www.amazon.com...
==========================
Get 10% off at Into the AM: intotheam.com/...
==========================
Get 5% off at Zyltech: www.zyltech.co...
==========================
Get 10% off with Homie and the Dude: use code ShortRest at hatdbuilder.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Join the Adventurers Guild: patreon.com/shortreststudios
Buy "Beneath the Black Spire": www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/509689/beneath-the-black-spire
More ways to support Short Rest Studios!
==========================
Join this channel
ruclips.net/channel/UCychTZf1Z2Womi56s_Ddk9wjoin
==========================
Short Rest Studios Merch: short-rest-studios.printify.me
==========================
Short Rest Studios PDFs: www.patreon.com/ShortRestStudios/shop
==========================
Join the Discord! discord.gg/C89CBNZpbe
==========================
My website: shortreststudios.com
==========================
My DriveThruRPG Affiliate Link
www.drivethrurpg.com/en/?affiliate_id=3260793
==========================
Shop D&D, DCC, my video equipment and more in on our Amazon storefront: www.amazon.com/shop/shortreststudios
==========================
Get 10% off at Into the AM: intotheam.com/shortreststudios
==========================
Get 5% off at Zyltech: www.zyltech.com/?aff=138
==========================
Get 10% off with Homie and the Dude: use code ShortRest at hatdbuilder.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The problem isn't disagreements over editions. The problem is WoTC and hasbro making anticonsumer choices that they're making. If dnd keeps up its self-destructive path it's on our hobby will die.
WotC is not responsible for how we treat each other. And there are a million other great TTRPGs out there. The hobby can and will survive without this particular one. I appreciate you watching!
@shortreststudios
Most of the community has its anger directed at WoTC. Not eachother. And as far as killing the hobby goes I'm sure theres always another TTRPG to be played but that doesn't mean we're not witnessing the death of one of the elder progenitors of our hobby. While the hobby will go on we are witnessing a death of a legend.
I honestly don’t think we are. I think you may be underestimating the size of the D&D audience.
And I’ve seen plenty of that Hasbro/WotC anger get directed at other gamers. THAT’S the issue.
@@vriskaserket8058 the hobby will never die. DnD is just one of hundreds of systems. You can always play a different game. Heck, not even WotC can stop you from playing 5e or other editions until the sun goes out. The hobby belongs to you and it will be there as long as you keep playing. And with all the third party creators out there, you'll never run out of material. And you can brew up your own worlds, as many as you wish. They cannot take that away from you, it's all yours
@cheesy_87
My concern is that the icon that is dnd will die under Hasbro's watch. It was the first of it's kind and would be shameful for it to go out due to anti-consumer practices.
Older versions of d&d still exist and are perfectly playable via .pdfs. I highly encourage that the people with 5e product fatigue explore some of the older versions of d&d, as well as some of the excellent retro-clones like Labyrinth Lords, Shadowdark, and Dungeon Crawl Classics.
I won't give Hasbro a dime. I proxy my Magic cards and I will avoid 5e like the plague.
For me, it’s been simple. If you view or play DnD different than me, then we simply don’t play together. Play your game how you like and I will how I like.
@@Cyber.Dude. I respect that and that’s a healthy outlook but I do hope cyber that if a dm different then your style has ideas you like you will at least I don’t know maybe consider being inspired or at least give a positive nod. By no means am I saying be a d and d rolladex of 400+ styles just ya know don’t be alienating of styles that may not be for you but may not be bad.
This appears to be a social media problem. Many social media "communties" end up fighting all the time.
I know there were arguments and edition wars before but it all seems to be multiplied online. In our local community things are fine. There are different groups playing differently, but no fighting. People discuss and disagree but it's all in good sport.
That may be true - I don’t know if it’s true every.where, but the impact of social media is significant. It’s detrimental to the hobby as a whole.
I have a story about my first Pathfinder game i had about 10 years ago. I wanted to play D&D but nobody I know wants to play first level phandelver. I had never played a TTRPG ever before. And I didnt have any books on any games. So a table let me play with them as a level one human rogue. I told them that i was completely new to TTRPGs. Fast forward to meeting out first NPC outside of the tavern. It was an old lady sweeping the floor. I wanted to pickpocket her. I thought i could get XP for doing it successfully. Derp. And i was going to give back whatever I got and introduce myself to the lady. The DM let me pickpocket her and showed no sign of disappointment. Apparently he was. I successfully got pocket lint and the old lady turned into a ghoul and killed me first turn. I told them what i was thinking and why I did it. They didnt care, the DM was pissed at me too. There was literally no other chat with the players before the game, and it just started minutes ago.
Sounds you experienced this right at the table. They could have chosen to kindly help a new player learn the ropes, but instead chose to get angry.
Big agree. I think the reason internet dnd culture is particularly full of inflammatory and insane behavior is because being terminally online and playing fantasy ttrpgs goes hand in hand, and internet addiction makes people jaded and insane.
That being said I think WOTC's marketing management is aware of this, and maybe purposefully creates insanely stupid and forced controversy to force discussion of the brand, which creates free advertising.
I think we're in a perfect storm right now of discontent. Negativity and rage-baiting is currently driving viewership. There's greater competition in the marketplace of TTRPGs than ever before. Political tribalism is near all-time highs. WOTC has made some boneheaded views. High profile people are leaving the hobby. We are stuck in division and need to refocus on what makes the hobby so great. I love my friends and my table. We can disagree on a lot of things, but when we get together and join in this awesome hobby, all that other stuff fades away and we live in a cool fantasy world and be heroes... together. I think we need more of that mindset and less of the negative. I started my channel to help with that in what little way I can. I'm glad you made this video!
Well said, my friend!
It's always important to know what is at stake in a given conversation, or a given argument, or a given controversy or whatever. If the only thing at stake is someone is wrong in the Internet, that deserves zero energy. If what's at stake (as with the OGL controversy) is that tens of thousands of creative people can no longer create content for the game, that's a lot bigger. But when you lean in and crack your knuckles and get ready to hit the caps lock, take a moment to ask what is at stake.
Well, and you should ask if your directing your anger at the responsible party.
been playing DnD since 81. everything is still fine
I'm honestly glad to see videos like this, especially now in the wake of 'You don't get it, I need to feed into drama because this makes more money even if I hate it' videos. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand people need to make money. I am not going to agree with pushing more negativity into the world because of it though.
People should enjoy the hobby however they like with likeminded people and not berate others for doing things differently.
I agree that kindness and tolerance are always the best choices. I think the problem with much of the argument is the lack of a clear line between D&D the hobby and D&D the _product_. Roleplaying games are a much, much broader category than D&D and its direct offspring, but a combination of the company, novices unfamiliar with the wider hobby, and some provincial players treat any statements opposed specifically to D&D as being an attack--while at the same time, many not in those groups attack D&D as shorthand for opposing the broader corporate attempts to claim ownership of their fun. I must admit that I am sympathetic to the latter group. When I say I don't like 5th edition, part of it is because I don't like the playstyle it engenders, and part of it is because I view it (and upcoming iterations) as a cash grab intended at least in part to convince players that they're only playing the game if they have the latest hip thing.
...But on top of that, I would have to admit that there is a part of any fandom, myself included, that resents new fans. They tend to get all the benefits and fun of the fandom without having to experience the downside. I got accused of being a Satanist and shunned for being a nerd. It's hard--though still the right thing to do!--to accept new hobbyists who get active social _benefits_ from the game where we got punished. I hope you will forgive us grognards some of our irritation in that context.
I think Hasbro/WOTC has been doing more to damage and kill their brand than any in-house squabbles. This video's feels like your blaming gamers for something that should be laid at the feet of Hasbro/WOTC.
I welcome your opinion, truly, but I think you’re missing the point. How we treat each other has nothing to do with Hasbro/WotC.
@@shortreststudios except when they tell players gnolls shouldnt be judged by their race , remove orcs from the monster manual and that we need to sop having colonial thinking in our game, among other things
@@douglasseelye5073 Honestly, how does WotC making changes to their content impact how you or I treat other players and DMs?
@@shortreststudios it has created rifts and a particulary one sided media blitz against how many have played and viewed the game world for years. does it affect how I play with the same group as the last 40 years, well no but it does effect the discourse on the game everywhere else, it effects us in the way that many of us will never buy a new book from WotC due to the direction they are taking the game since 3.5 which sucks for those of us that have supported the game for 40+ years and anytime long term players voice their concerns about this we get an amazing amount of vitriol thrown our way because we dont want to adapt whatever new age bs is hot this week.
@@douglasseelye5073so you’re saying that if you or I CHOOSE to be rude to someone over DnD, that it’s WotC’s fault? I’m no WotC defender, but aren’t people responsible for their own actions?
To also say some things are just good and some are bad. Its not all completely up to opinion.
Sure. And I did say that in the video. That’s not what I’m talking about.
The funny thing is I dislike 5e spell slots and the adventuring day. I have a friend that loves 5e. We have many disagreements but overall we just have different tastes. Most of our disagreements don't come from judging what each other likes but trying to understand and empathize what they like/dislike about certain things. It's hard to put into words sometimes what we like and dislike but I do think acceptance and sometimes just moving on is the best thing we can do as people in general.
Absolutely!
And spell points are also in the official 5e variant rules. In the older 5e rules. And the GM can choose whether they use points or slots.
Humans resist change? But in RPGs they are always so adaptable… 😉😂
I totally agree with your opinion. Our world is so bleak at the moment - why do we make it worse by arguing about our beloved hobby? I know it’s difficult to agree to other opinions or to accept them. I will not GM or play D&D ever again because I dislike Hasbro but if someone wants to play? Do it, have fun but without me 😉
I don't think my way is the "right" way. I don't want to be shamed for playing the game the way I want to play. I don't want the games I played 30 years ago to be denigrated. I don't want our history rewritten and then denounced. In my earlier days it was the argument of munchkins vs roleplayers vs rollplayers. Over a decade ago I came to terms with that division with the simple idea that the game should be played the way one enjoys to play it. That the way I find joy in the game, doesn't match with everyone else's method of finding joy. There is no wrong way to play.
Now... this new division has surfaced, and it wasn't brought up by those like myself, but I'm caught up in the area of effect. ;)
Instead of being good stewards of the game, WotC.... well Hasbro is focused on making a profit.
But hey, they gave us a great DnD movie, finally. :)
Monogamy isn't for TTRPG's!
My favorite TTRPG's and Systems: 1-Cypher(generic), 2-Teenagers From Outer Space(anime), 3-Gamma World 4E(not based on D&D 4E)(post apocalyptic), 4-All Flesh Must be Eaten(zombie), 5-Battlelords of the 23rd Century(sci-fi), 6-Pathfinder 1E(fantasy), 7-5E(fantasy), 8-Palladium system(generic), 9-AD&D(fantasy), 10-Shadow of the Demon Lord(sci-fantasy/horror) and 11-Star Frontiers(sci-fi)
I’m with you. I love to learn new systems. Problem is, sometimes I read so many I can’t remember the ones I need to! 🤣
@@shortreststudios Our whole group has played so many different versions, that we often get rules confused!
My opinion is that it is less about edition changes and more about growing pains in business. Dungeons and Dragons was previously an American niche game even with the 1980s cartoons and previous licensed video games. It is now a major part of worldwide pop culture from Stranger Things on Netflix, Twenty Sided Tavern as a theater play and Baldur's Gate 3 as both a commercial and critical success. WotC has issues as a company, but it is attempting to remain profitable since it bought out TSR due to recurring financial difficulties under Gary Gygax.
Thanks so much for the comment! I don’t disagree with your assessment - this is a whole other can of worms, though. People aren’t just arguing over editions, and this isn’t healthy. Got nothing to do with the business.
The problem is trying to have a D&D "community". No one is playing the same game as anyone else. Every table is a unique gaming experience created by that GM and those players. Finding common ground can be tricky and the diversity just leads to tribalism, and tribes fight each other as a matter of course.
But communities around hobbies are not the result of anyone trying to create those communities. When multiple people enjoy a thing, a community will grow up around it. Everyone in this hobby is part of a “tribe” of sorts. There may be smaller tribes within the larger, but don’t you think it’s worth encouraging people to stop the fighting?
@@shortreststudios The point is that the community is trying to grow up around "the thing", but "the thing" is secretly many, many different things. So when people try to interact about "the thing" they aren't talking about the same thing but don't know it. This creates confusion and conflict. One table is playing combat-focused vanilla 5e. Another is playing roleplay-focused 5e with 10 years of hacks. Both are called DnD, but they are completely different games. It's like expecting pokemon fans and metroid fans to connect just because they both play a game on the Switch.
Actually I think it’s more like asking the Pokémon and Metroid players not to be mean to each other just because they play different games on their Switches.
I just posted a video along similar lines. I think the debate over Orcs is emblematic. It's all very silly.
The whole discussion about letting people play how they want sure seems to come a decade too late, after that Habro took the stance that D&D was super-racist all along and thus they're justified in sanitizing the entire art and settings, killing stuff like Dark Sun entirely, all in an entirely hypocritical manner considering they're the guys who use Pinkertons and want total control over the entire genre.
What does this have to do with the way we, the players and DMs, treat each other?
Keep it simple..take all mechanics/rules from the various versions, other RPG's - make your homebrew work with your group...get their input too.
I like 3.5 the best but I play and run 5e. I still play 1AD&D at conventions as well as new games like Shadowdark .
It’s all homebrew rules.
Play what you want.
WotC is a terrible company in my opinion.
Nice thoughtful video bro.
Thank you!
Well Said!
I never truly enjoyed 3.5
I didn't like 4e at all.
I really liked 5e because it felt like an improved AD&D.
...But that's just me. I understand that seems completely unbelievable to some people. I can't fathom why people think 2e is the best edition, but I don't despise them for it.
Go play BECMI or Pathfinder 2 or Tales of the Valiant... Play whatever makes you happy!
I like your approach but I believe this is ultimately not possible as the behavior of people online is a direct channeling of their feelings in real life. So unless we fix their real life challenges, we can't expect them to change here.
I know that's a nothing-burger of an answer but I think the best way to cope with negativity is kindness and positivity. Not fake, ignoring kindness. Kindness coming from the fact that, you know the other person's hurting.
Because one day, that negative person will wake up a bit happier before coming to RUclips, and this positivity might make them change their mind about how they approach things. And this change will not be on how they view the game but their life.
But WDIK ^_^
Kindness is kind of my point. Thanks for the comment!
What's the line between talking about the hobby and the arguments you're talking about?
I think it’s pretty obvious. We can discuss the hobby without getting angry and belittling each other.
@shortreststudios so it's the ad hominems specifically you don't like?
Respectfully, I think I was pretty clear in the video on what I believe the problem to be: arguing, belittling, and insulting other gamers because they enjoy the hobby differently than we do.
I'll just keep to ShadowDark, tbh.
I mean ShadowDark is awesome.
Most definitely agree with you people need to open up and stop gate keeping the ones to blame is people like the dev of Pathfinder that devided it's own players
I’m not really super interested in blaming anyone in particular. I think that just exacerbates the problem. I think instead we should each just behave the way we wish everyone would. That will make the difference. Thanks for your comment!
There is no such thing as a toxic community. Communities largely consist of consumers and if they're dissatisfied with the product, they're free to voice their criticisms in whatever manner they desire and it's up to publisher to adjust accordingly. Arguments like this only obfuscate that obvious fact. Don't hate the consumer, hate the product. I avoid D&D products because I don't agree with the editorial decisions. But you're right, you can just ignore the stupidity that oozes from these corporations that control these games and instead just purchase nothing from them and focus on having fun at our own tables. Thankfully, that's exactly what seems to be happening and it's glorious.
I don’t really think you can say there’s no such thing as toxic communities. When people in a community treat each other badly, it’s not the fault of anyone but those people. I appreciate the comment!
@@shortreststudios Exactly, you've proven my point for me. It's the fault of individuals, not a community. If the suggestion is that a few bad people saying bad things makes for a toxicity problem with the community, then ALL communities are toxic and in which case the argument is redundant. To suggest there is a toxic community, you would have to make a causal link between something within the community breeding toxic behavior.
The entire video just sounded so vague. Who are these people? Where are they? Do you have examples? People are treating others poorly based on version changes to a product? People are prohibiting others from enjoying the product how they want to? How? So the message is "be nice"? Okay. That's cool.
I talked about a LOT more than just edition changes. And I never used the term “toxic community.” That was your verbiage. What I’ve said is that people are increasingly lashing out at other people. If you’re not seeing it in your community, I’m glad.