Please follow me on other platforms as RUclips is unreliable! linktr.ee/zybaktv 0:00 - Introduction 0:40 - Tank sucks at low levels 1:45 - Tank is by far the least played class 2:38 - Underleveled Tanks Phenomenon 4:42 - My concerns with the Tank class 7:00 - Tank PvP and theorycrafting 16:46 - Suggestions and things I'd like to see changed for Tank
@@reptiliancow I'm not sure what I think of it yet. I'm torn because on the surface it doesn't sound great but they do want death to have a slight sting to it or else you can exploit "throwing bodies" at things or abuse death for things like fast travel. It kind of makes sense in this game. Not entirely sure if I love the idea yet though. We've got a long time to test it though which is good.
@ZybakTV it also creates incentives to not engage in dangerous activity until max level, where it completely stops being relevant. They want the leveling to take a long time, and mmo's in the past used this to create a sense of danger too. But new mmo players don't play like the old crowd. Getting to max level as safely and efficiently as possible is going to be the name of the game.
@ZybakTV thats even worse! 😆 In these alphas there's no real stakes, so its really difficult to understand the impact. I highly doubt people will enjoy that 80 hours into full release. I know people think they do... but I really don't see that going into full release. Time will tell!
It should also make your character scream "RUN YOU FUGGIN COWARDS!!" and apply a 1m fear effect to your teammates if they are out of range when you die lol.
Protect is a skill used in Warhammer Online (called Guard there), and taunts also worked the same way there. It absolutely separates good tanks from bad ones in PvP...lol
If I remember correctly in FFXI you lost XP on death and could delevel from it, and the solution to it was that the Raise spell of a With Mage negated Xp loss depending on the level of the spell, so the highest level Raise spell negated all of the XP loss from death. I didn't play FFXI but I heard really cool stories that they had to form parties to rescue solo people that died in dungeons so they don't lose XP. It made it really important to have a good network of friendly people and everybody loved healers.
I hope they don't make the tank mistake that Blizzard made in wow vanilla: every 5 man group needs one tank, but in raids you only needed 1 tank for 40 people. Best case scenario, you need 3 tanks per 40. That ratio is way off: 1 to 4 or 1 to 12, so tanks at end game could not raid, and during leveling there were not enough tanks.
Once augments come into play, IMO it should be balanced for every 8 person group should want 2 tanks. For difficult content, one would be more paladin (tank/cleric), whereas the other would be dps/off-tank (tank/fighter)... or something along these lines.
@17:26 double commenting, but an interesting idea would be if the payoff for absorbing damage would be different based on your secondary archtype. Like a Paladin could unleash the stored damage as an AoE Heal, the Mage/Tank could explode in a fireball, the Bard/Tank could give a AoE Damage buff, etc.
@10:15 I would recommend looking at Return to Reckonings tanks' and their Guard mechanic. Protect is basically a carbon copy of it; and it almost single-handedly props up tanks in PvP. Of course they still have CC and other tools like auras, but redirecting 30% (50% in RoR's case) just adds a gameplay loop of keeping the enemies teams targets alive. Like if you want to kill someone, you need to separate the two or bait the protect swap (no CD for protect kinda looks busted ngl) or risk all your big damage just getting negated.
Really looking forward to this game. Hope there's a good caster class with good CC/debuffs. Would love to focus CC/debuff a bard/cleric and just watch their HP bar melt as they get piled onto
Like a sorc in dark age of Camelot. If played right that class could solo 8 man groups. Skill ceiling was high but if mastered 💯 controlled the battle field
Protect is basically "Guard" from Warhammer Online. (No idea if its been in other MMOs but its the only one I know of) Its amazing, as you mentioned, just that single skill gives Tanks such a high skill ceiling and you feel a lot more impactful in PvP in the "Tank role", being able to soak up dmg your teammates are getting just feels great imo if Im playing a Tank.
1:50 This is very interesting for me, as this hasn’t been the case for my guild on Castus. Overwhelming amounts of tanks and fighters, and a distinct lack of clerics.
The primary healer in this game is the Cleric but both the Bard and the Summoner have pretty respectable healing as well. Bard is more of a utility class with some off heals. Summoner will likely be a DPS with some healing/tanking utility.
I wonder if the tanks are falling behind in lvl due to xp debt. They have said if you're more than 3 lvls behind your party, you won't gain xp. You always gain the most xp if you're the highest lvl in your group.
It's hard to say without us knowing nothing about the system but I imagine doubling up on Tank will be pretty popular as there's a lot of incentive to be the most tanky tank you can.
i think a way to balance this would be to make monsters that are super fast, hit like a truck and cant be ccd - and give way more experience. dps characters are too squishy to deal with them, theyd be run down and killed before being able to burst them down. but tank characters would have enough dmg mitigation to survive and kill them, making these enemies a tank only source of xp. and group xp needs a nerf, so that it wouldnt be worth killing these 1 by 1 in a group. not that ive thought it through, this is just off the top of my head
Thanks for the video. Your perspective on the death penalty on tanks was insightful. It was the final puzzle piece for me to realize the game is going to become "elitist" over time. Players will learn to avoid risk and only trust people they already know. It's the logical end-station for any game where rewards can be taken away by the actions of others.
I've actually had the opposite experience playing Ashes, so much so that I really want them to get the friend's list feature online ASAP. I've made more organic friends in this game than I have in any MMO in the last 15 years. Even if nothing changes about Tanks the market will correct itself and tanks will just be extremely valuable and sought after.
I have to say so I've enjoyed tanks the most in Warhammer Return of Reckoning. Some play great with 2 handed weapons, some great mechanics like Grudge, all are pretty nice to level even solo (some self-sustain...), and some hit pretty hard when build right. Tank in Ashes falls short.
Tank feels awesome once you get to 15+. Personally got to 25 last weekend but solo play is TERRIBLE. I never played without a group because its not viable spending 2 minutes killing 1 mob and having to eat after every 1-2 kills. Super slow. But it is very high risk and high reward. Once you start getting gear though it becomes way better and you'll hopefully die less xD
I think tanks need to be tankier, idc if it does less damage, i know its a team game, but we need to be less reliable on healers because we are not in control of outlr life almost at all, in pvp its different, especially 1v1, but pvp 😅
I hardly disagree on 9:15 imagine your entire class is just a 1spell, dude and im not a fan of being a support lol, if i play a tank i want to get shit done on my own be a threat on my own a Tank should not be a support for most of the things, Tank in AOC is a let down in my mind.
Honestly, I've found tanks to be incredibly underwhelming. The tanks I've partied with have been made of wet tissue paper. I think they often struggle to keep themselves alive, and do a piss poor job of keeping anybody else alive. They need work.
yea on the same boat, Tanks or Tanking feels really really bad, i hope they think about it and redirect their vision on the Tank, it's not surprising why tanks are the least played Class rn and it shows a swinging sandbag nothing more atm.
Tank here and from my opinion in Ashes tank class is one of the most hardest to play in Alpha atleast at low lvl since threat and mitigation can become a probem, another thing is not having decent gear players get in groups with the starter gear and are cluelesw how courage works, tank still neeeds a lot of work in my opinion from Intrepid and I hope we get changes in the next months.
Please follow me on other platforms as RUclips is unreliable!
linktr.ee/zybaktv
0:00 - Introduction
0:40 - Tank sucks at low levels
1:45 - Tank is by far the least played class
2:38 - Underleveled Tanks Phenomenon
4:42 - My concerns with the Tank class
7:00 - Tank PvP and theorycrafting
16:46 - Suggestions and things I'd like to see changed for Tank
Xp debt is such a bad mechanic
@@reptiliancow I'm not sure what I think of it yet. I'm torn because on the surface it doesn't sound great but they do want death to have a slight sting to it or else you can exploit "throwing bodies" at things or abuse death for things like fast travel.
It kind of makes sense in this game. Not entirely sure if I love the idea yet though. We've got a long time to test it though which is good.
@ZybakTV it also creates incentives to not engage in dangerous activity until max level, where it completely stops being relevant. They want the leveling to take a long time, and mmo's in the past used this to create a sense of danger too. But new mmo players don't play like the old crowd. Getting to max level as safely and efficiently as possible is going to be the name of the game.
It's still present at max level. There's just stat dampening instead of XP debt.
@ZybakTV thats even worse! 😆
In these alphas there's no real stakes, so its really difficult to understand the impact. I highly doubt people will enjoy that 80 hours into full release. I know people think they do... but I really don't see that going into full release.
Time will tell!
Tank: Passive, "Die With Honor". Tank class takes 50% less XP loss upon death 🤘
Add: When in a group.
It should also make your character scream "RUN YOU FUGGIN COWARDS!!" and apply a 1m fear effect to your teammates if they are out of range when you die lol.
Protect is a skill used in Warhammer Online (called Guard there), and taunts also worked the same way there. It absolutely separates good tanks from bad ones in PvP...lol
1:15
"The tank is just miserable to level"
As a 2005 prot warrior andy, say no more. I absolutely hate myself
Prot Pally was my first lvl capped character during cata and I still plan on playing a Paladin in this game 😂
If I remember correctly in FFXI you lost XP on death and could delevel from it, and the solution to it was that the Raise spell of a With Mage negated Xp loss depending on the level of the spell, so the highest level Raise spell negated all of the XP loss from death. I didn't play FFXI but I heard really cool stories that they had to form parties to rescue solo people that died in dungeons so they don't lose XP. It made it really important to have a good network of friendly people and everybody loved healers.
I hope they don't make the tank mistake that Blizzard made in wow vanilla: every 5 man group needs one tank, but in raids you only needed 1 tank for 40 people. Best case scenario, you need 3 tanks per 40. That ratio is way off: 1 to 4 or 1 to 12, so tanks at end game could not raid, and during leveling there were not enough tanks.
Once augments come into play, IMO it should be balanced for every 8 person group should want 2 tanks. For difficult content, one would be more paladin (tank/cleric), whereas the other would be dps/off-tank (tank/fighter)... or something along these lines.
healer review next?
Such a good content bro. Keep it going!
@17:26 double commenting, but an interesting idea would be if the payoff for absorbing damage would be different based on your secondary archtype. Like a Paladin could unleash the stored damage as an AoE Heal, the Mage/Tank could explode in a fireball, the Bard/Tank could give a AoE Damage buff, etc.
@10:15 I would recommend looking at Return to Reckonings tanks' and their Guard mechanic. Protect is basically a carbon copy of it; and it almost single-handedly props up tanks in PvP. Of course they still have CC and other tools like auras, but redirecting 30% (50% in RoR's case) just adds a gameplay loop of keeping the enemies teams targets alive. Like if you want to kill someone, you need to separate the two or bait the protect swap (no CD for protect kinda looks busted ngl) or risk all your big damage just getting negated.
Really looking forward to this game. Hope there's a good caster class with good CC/debuffs. Would love to focus CC/debuff a bard/cleric and just watch their HP bar melt as they get piled onto
Like a sorc in dark age of Camelot. If played right that class could solo 8 man groups. Skill ceiling was high but if mastered 💯 controlled the battle field
Fighters on top baby, but big time respect - from one Warrior to another. Hope to see you on Resna one day big dog!
Protect is basically "Guard" from Warhammer Online. (No idea if its been in other MMOs but its the only one I know of)
Its amazing, as you mentioned, just that single skill gives Tanks such a high skill ceiling and you feel a lot more impactful in PvP in the "Tank role", being able to soak up dmg your teammates are getting just feels great imo if Im playing a Tank.
1:50 This is very interesting for me, as this hasn’t been the case for my guild on Castus. Overwhelming amounts of tanks and fighters, and a distinct lack of clerics.
It could be a server thing. Resna has a ton of sweatlord guilds so ironically there’s not really a shortage of clerics and bards. 💀
Sword and board being good makes me happy
Well, once the multi classing comes out let us know
Interested in
Tank/bard
Tank/fighter
Tank/cleric
Tank/summoner
Multi class will solve the tank shortage, same as dual spec
Are there healers in this game? Or rather, does this game go by the holy trinity? What will dungeon groups look like?
The primary healer in this game is the Cleric but both the Bard and the Summoner have pretty respectable healing as well. Bard is more of a utility class with some off heals. Summoner will likely be a DPS with some healing/tanking utility.
Could you please link a skill order how you would skill ? Would love some tips for levelling
I wonder if the tanks are falling behind in lvl due to xp debt. They have said if you're more than 3 lvls behind your party, you won't gain xp. You always gain the most xp if you're the highest lvl in your group.
14:00 - Anyone that has played a tank build in Albion knows the real pvp value the tank will have in ashes. It is going to be insane.
what would you pair Tank with as a subclass?
It's hard to say without us knowing nothing about the system but I imagine doubling up on Tank will be pretty popular as there's a lot of incentive to be the most tanky tank you can.
I'm either combining cleric to make a paladin or, Bard I'm hoping tank+Bard plays like a skald in daoc with CC's and speed buffs
I switched to 2h on my tank and it feels pretty good.
i think a way to balance this would be to make monsters that are super fast, hit like a truck and cant be ccd - and give way more experience.
dps characters are too squishy to deal with them, theyd be run down and killed before being able to burst them down. but tank characters would have enough dmg mitigation to survive and kill them, making these enemies a tank only source of xp.
and group xp needs a nerf, so that it wouldnt be worth killing these 1 by 1 in a group.
not that ive thought it through, this is just off the top of my head
Thanks for the video. Your perspective on the death penalty on tanks was insightful. It was the final puzzle piece for me to realize the game is going to become "elitist" over time.
Players will learn to avoid risk and only trust people they already know. It's the logical end-station for any game where rewards can be taken away by the actions of others.
I've actually had the opposite experience playing Ashes, so much so that I really want them to get the friend's list feature online ASAP. I've made more organic friends in this game than I have in any MMO in the last 15 years. Even if nothing changes about Tanks the market will correct itself and tanks will just be extremely valuable and sought after.
@@ZybakTV Based on your response. You are highly invested in the community as it exists right now and you want to keep it that way.
I have to say so I've enjoyed tanks the most in Warhammer Return of Reckoning. Some play great with 2 handed weapons, some great mechanics like Grudge, all are pretty nice to level even solo (some self-sustain...), and some hit pretty hard when build right. Tank in Ashes falls short.
What kinda graphic card do i need to run this on ultra settings?
is the multiclass system in the alpha?
Not yet. That's not coming for a good bit.
Tank feels awesome once you get to 15+. Personally got to 25 last weekend but solo play is TERRIBLE. I never played without a group because its not viable spending 2 minutes killing 1 mob and having to eat after every 1-2 kills. Super slow. But it is very high risk and high reward. Once you start getting gear though it becomes way better and you'll hopefully die less xD
Think tanks are relying on their Secondary Archetypes and will be way better once we have access to them
Exp party share should be exp loss share too.
That's actually kind of an interesting idea. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or bad idea but that's something I never considered.
Funny our tanks in the guild are the top levels, i think tanks should just learn how to solo level since they can do it more efficiently than dps atm
Never been so early in my life.
I think tanks need to be tankier, idc if it does less damage, i know its a team game, but we need to be less reliable on healers because we are not in control of outlr life almost at all, in pvp its different, especially 1v1, but pvp 😅
Things I don't like: The name. Just change it to Vanguard already Steven!
I kinda like the name but I wouldn't mind if it got changed either.
Tank will change name when it picos second archetype
Imo the tanks should be harder to level, as it increases their value. Guilds then have a clear goal: gearing and helping the main tanks.
can any1 play right now?
Only Alpha 2 backers right now.
@@ZybakTV game looks sweeeet
imagine tanking pve with sns in new world, bruther its all about the greatsword heavys
I hardly disagree on 9:15 imagine your entire class is just a 1spell, dude and im not a fan of being a support lol, if i play a tank i want to get shit done on my own be a threat on my own a Tank should not be a support for most of the things, Tank in AOC is a let down in my mind.
Honestly, I've found tanks to be incredibly underwhelming. The tanks I've partied with have been made of wet tissue paper. I think they often struggle to keep themselves alive, and do a piss poor job of keeping anybody else alive. They need work.
yea on the same boat, Tanks or Tanking feels really really bad, i hope they think about it and redirect their vision on the Tank, it's not surprising why tanks are the least played Class rn and it shows a swinging sandbag nothing more atm.
Tank here and from my opinion in Ashes tank class is one of the most hardest to play in Alpha atleast at low lvl since threat and mitigation can become a probem, another thing is not having decent gear players get in groups with the starter gear and are cluelesw how courage works, tank still neeeds a lot of work in my opinion from Intrepid and I hope we get changes in the next months.