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100% agree. I can't tell you how many I have told an offensive player "you have to get to the sticks", or told a defensive player "put your feet on the sticks".
I agree. Great drama in the chain gang. Human element. Great visuals & points of reference those orange and black sticks on the sidelines for not just the players but us as well. Tech Will sanitize the game
How trustworthy is is tech,,, really,, the chain isn’t low tech,, it’s true every time,, best way to measure anything,,, every one wants instant information,, but now your going to put all your trust into a computer once again,
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would extreme accuracy of the first-down line be needed if there is soooo much inaccuracy in the ball placement? And improving that is extremely difficult, because the ball can't know where it was when a knee or elbow hit the ground. The officials are frequently pulling the spot out of their ass from a ball under a pile of people.
Being able to see the chain gang on TV gives an immediate reference of where the ball is on the field, the down, and where the ball is in relation to the 10 yards needed to gain.
I think they still need to have a visual indicator of where the first down is. How many times have you seen a runner or receiver dive towards the first down marker?
You would still need some way of letting the players know where the line of gain is so that they know how far they need to go to get a first down. That's currently done with the line of gain stick, the far end of the 10-yeard first down chain. Unless technology can somehow draw a line on the turf (maybe with a laser?) you would still need someone holding a stick at the line of gain. And do the players and fans really care if the first down is made or not made by half an inch? There's nostalgia in the chain gang., with their 40-second measurement giving both teams time to decide what the next play will be.
The weakness of the chain gang has always been what will NOT be changing. The spotting of the football by the guys in stripes. Will it save time.. well, maybe. It will vary as how many times are the chains brought out? It' literally varies from game to game. Still, less than a single replay review. Not sure this will ACTUALLY improve anything (and highly doubtful it will).. but the perception of it is there so people will get warm and fuzzys over it.
The nfl taking another exciting part of the game away from the fans. Every time there is a measurement it intrigues the teams, the stadium and even the fans on tv. That 40 seconds is exciting for all fans on either side of ball. The chains are checked before the game, during the week for operational durability, they are put to the lines on the field to ensure they match the field and are 10 yards. Starting to give up on the enjoyment of the nfl.
I'm surprised the accuracy is only to the half inch. I've seen this technology used in tennis on occasion and it seems like its accurate down to the millimeter.
@@brodiebrazil The NHL should deploy this technology. It's very frustrating to have a goal called and then wait another 2+ minutes to confirm if the puck is in the net or if the linesman missed an off side call.
1.) The balli in tennisis much less obstructed than a football 2.) Tennis isn't played in crappy weather. 3.) Tennis balls are far smaller than footballs 4.) Wireless signals are notoriously unreliable in bigger stadiums
I wonder if that includes eliminating eventually the person that marks the first down line. I can’t imagine the NFLPA would go for that. Having that first down marker is huge when playing.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but overall i dont understanding everyones fixation on having every call in every sport to be 100 percent perfect every time, we went 100 plus years with human error being a part of the game, and nobody ever had any issues with it. Know a small part of that was the tech wasnt there, but I found the game more enjoyable before replays, and this is just another step away from that
In tennis and volleyball matches, they use cameras to show the landing spot of the ball, especially when it is very close to the lines, for indisputable calls. Accuracy of calling is important in sports.
once again a very informative video - thanks Brodie ! my two cents is that the suspense that builds while waiting for chain measurement is part of the game drama. we dont have patience anymore - especially younger generation (boomer here) faster is not always better. plus - as a retired teacher we still need physical images of distances -- to actually visualize what 10 yds looks like -- too many kids rely on devices to tell them what measurements are without having any context - its no wonder math scores are plummeting.
You missed some major n significant points. The first point is that over the course of the game losing 40 seconds of getting your blood oxygen level up for the larger players will be gone . That means increased fatigue over the course of the game. Significant. Second, you didn’t discuss how the system would be able to deal with the most classic controversy is where the knee was down where the ball was at that moment . The system spot those two different events accurately? Unlike tennis where it’s where a single ball is in American football, it can mean body parts as well as the ball. Most of the controversy is not over the spot on a clean play. The spot contentions are mostly on unusual or complex plays that require knowing more than just wear the ball is it involves where the players body parts are. In other words, the way you describe the systemic and handle simple plays, but not complex ones because you didn’t provide detail. Lastly, this is entertainment. It’s not open heart surgery. Nobody really cares about accuracy that much. Besides half the fun of being a fan is having something to bitch about.
Removing the chain gang could potentially change the way the game is played. Those 40s are a defacto time out for both sides. Thats 40 seconds to come up with a play. Physically talk to coaches instead of using the radio etc
The time savings would be in not stopping the clock for a first down. Now the clock is stopped for each 1st down to reset the chains. It takes a lot longer to do a measurement than 40 seconds.
Would they need to keep the people out there with the sticks just so the people in the stadium know where the 1st down and line of scrimmage are, or would they just somehow project those lines on the field in real life like they do on TV?
The system they used in UFL didn't seem to save any time at all. Instead of watching the chain dragged out for "40 seconds", you watch some lame computer graphic for 40 seconds.
They still need the 'chain gang' on the field so the PLAYERS know where the 1st down line is. MY question is how will the ref know where to place the ball based on Hawkeyes view.
How much time would it really save? How many times per game are the chains brought out? If it saves 40 seconds, like Sony says, then if the measurement is checked twice, that's not even a minute and a half. For me, the issue is accuracy, not saving time.
Big mistake. The NFL is great theater and the chain gang is part of its drama. That's why there hasn't really been much of a groundswell to replace them. The bigger issue is in spotting the ball.
Agreed! Bringing out the chains is cool. I like that it's a physical thing you see and not just computers or light beams, etc. I like the drama of it. Keep the chains!
Maybe they could add some kind of on-field theater of using the device, but doesn't stop the game as long for inane time-consuming things like having to carry a chain across the field (boring) to get to the dramatic measurement (exciting).
they can still do a dramatic animation on the big screen exactly how they do it in tennis. That animation isn't the system working on the result. That's instant.
I can’t agree. How is it theatrical when you take 5 or 6 minutes to run super slow motion to determine if someone did or didn’t catch the ball. And do this multiple times in a game
What is needed is to have an electronic gizmo in the football itself. After the tackle there would be no judgement calls by the refs to where the ball is placed for the next down. In fact, referees could be eliminated completely and their wages absorbed by the league. Overhead cameras with a person sitting in Los Angeles or New York could see and decide on holding, face mask, false starts, excessive roughness etc. I can see it now..."...and this horse collar penalty is brought to you by Schlitz beer." The NFL would get new sources of revenue.
I always thought it would be a tracker in the ball and a way to spot the exact location at all times eliminating the need for the refs to spot the ball.
They used this during a USC game last year (iirc) and even Kirk Herbstriett was shocked at how fast the decisions were able to be made. Edit: Washington at USC (the game is available in its entirety on RUclips lol)
Not true as to not changing. The NFL has tried all kinds of analog devices but the simple chain is the king of the measuring tools. I look forward to what comes next.
Why not put a sensor in the ball that is streaming it's position and then when the ref clicks a button on a remote when they think the player is down then that is the spot of the ball. This would eliminate the human error of the ref in trying to figure out exactly where the ball was when the player is called down. It would only have to transmit to the closest ref. Each ref would have a remote with a button and a small screen with ball position. When they press the button when they judge the play is dead that would show on a small screen (could be strapped to their wrist) They would also have a live display of ball position so when they spot the ball they look at their wrist until the ball is at the position where the play was called dead. This would be simpler and more accurate than cameras all over the place.
It would have to be infallible and technology is sometimes not quite perfect either. There would have to be an extreme degree of accuracy. Calibration would have to be done before each game and verified, and on a backup system. Interesting times we are living in.
Yeah .... but what about if a foot is in/out or where the ball should be down'd is the knee down etc etc. I think it's about time there's technology on where the ball is spotted. I always wondered if the tech was going to be visual or something inside the ball.
This type of technology was being discussed as early as the 1980's. That incarnation was to use four devices that used laser beams: two at the point where a first down in a series was to start, the other two at the next line to gain. Each device had a laser emitter at the bottom and a detector on a 90 degree angle along with a then state of the art display that was to tell each member of the 'chain gang' that (1) they were 10 yards apart from one another, (2) that the device was being held at the appropriate angle, and (3) that the beam crossed the field at the appropriate points. When in alignment, the result was to be a red, rectangular box of light beams to indicate these points. The premise was simple - if the ball was beyond the beam or the beam going across the line to gain was interrupted by the ball? The "red rectangle" was broken, and a first down achieved - at which point the four people operating the device moved to the new points. The NFL gave up on the idea because in test runs, the crew operating the devices spent more time lining up the beam emitters and their receivers on each device "just right" to create the rectangle than it took for a chain gang to run out on the field and do their thing.
I like it. Let's keep the game moving. Everyone who opposes it now will be fine with it later. Same with the new kickoffs. Admittedly, it looks weird right now, but I can see it saving injuries. The QB slide rule is weird, but it works, and we understand it now, right?
It's about time. Too many times the officials have trouble keeping up with the action and are out of position to make an accurate call, and too many careers come down to whether or not the spot was accurate. However how would the Hawk-Eye tech be affected by weather conditions? For instance, how effective would it be in conditions like the Fog Bowl, or hard rain or snow? Or even 10 degrees below 0 on The Frozen Tundra? So I think it's a smart move to keep the chain gang as backup. But I'm really glad to see there's some progress. Now if only MLB would let tech call accurate balls and strikes.
Having only seen this used during a couple game so far I can say ultimately they got every first down call correct. The only thing they need to improve it the time it took for the call to get to the Refs. I believe in one game it took something like 7:00 minutes to get the call.
They will still need to rely on the referees placing the ball correctly in order to determine the location of the football. Or is there a way to determine the exact location of the ball at the point where it becomes dead? The ball carrier’s knee touches ground but the player lunges forward for extra yards. So in order for the system to accurately determine the exact location of the ball when the player touches the ground, the system would need to be able to see or have sensors all over the ball and the players. Maybe there is more sophisticated technology that can determine that like using laser grids. It will be interesting to see how they accomplish it.
We have to much tech. Refs, and chain gangs is part of the experience. I'm close to not watching the game due to them removing everything great about the game.
So couldn't they use the same technology to gauge whether the ball breaks the end zone plane, when TD questions arise? Even incorporate these measurement cameras into replay, should be possible.
So fine, you measure say at the sideline where player went down. How is the ball accurately respoted at center of field? If measuring to millimeters it will be difficult to respot accurately.
I think where it could be most useful is determining whether a player's foot is touching the line or not in real time. Will they have to remove the crown of the field to let the lasers work across the entire field? The question is, will it be 3D or ground level observation only?
You mentioned that it speeds up the game. Question for research, how many times do the chains come out to measure in a game? So then figure out the cost per second to install this technology on the savings it will give.
Since the position on first down is just eyeballed from the sidelines, I've always thought it a little silly to be pulling out an index card to measure.
I wonder, if it's even possible with a non-round ball, if they'll ever use technology with the ball, such as in soccer to confirm whether the ball crossed over the goal line for a score. I know in football, there are elements such as timing, such as whether the runner is ruled down which would have to be coordinated. But at the least, perhaps it could determine if the ball DID NOT reach the goal line, which could overturn an erroneous field ruling of a score.
Hawk eye? Did the University of Iowa trademark the word Hawk eye? So every time the word is used, the University will get a royalty? The money made would easily pay for the NIL collective!
A half-inch will be more than accurate enough. Do you think they get the stick that close when the ball is in the middle of the field and move the chain for a first down? I doubt the ball is spotted within a half-inch of the actual spot very often. What percent of downs end within six inches of the first down marker.
Does the system measure the spot of the ball offcial placed, or measure the spot in play? From what I have seen the system used in other sports (tennis, soccer, basketball), I think the system measures the ball in play so the human element is completely eliminated. So, in situations like forth down and short, judgement for the first down could be announced immediately, or the system is used only in situations where the result is inconlusive? Either way, it would be very interesting to see how it works.
So if the ball is really close to a yard line (either side), a team would need to gain essentially 11 or perhaps only 9 yards? How would you round, especially if it's right in the middle of the yard lines?
I remember the Dicker Rod from the WFL One guy could mark the ball and measure the first down With all this technology. what happens if something like bad weather causes the system to go down flaky? I mean snow can't stick to the camera lenses? Do you have the chain gang sit around and then go out then sit around?
whenever technology is created to make things better, it can also be used for harm. Just think if they want to rig a game how they can manipulate the first down technology to either give or take away a first down.
Unlike tennis where the technology eliminated the human element by having a camera with a clear view of the line and where the ball hit relative to it,. Wheres in football this technology doesn't come into play until a human being decides where the ball will be on the field. I always chuckle when the ref reaches into the pile of bodies to get the ball, waits for the players to clear, and then with unquestionable precision (fractions of an inch) places the ball on the field.
From the players, who are on the field, the chain gang is a quick visual reference for them especially for running routes past the 1st down (when you need 20 yds because of a penalty before), linemen, db's, even for any ball carrier when running down the sideline to get to the first down. Although you're not focused on the sideline chains during when a play begins and you're reacting to the situation as a play develops, as a player you will have a general indication to help you do what and how to commit. All these little visual information help add up to make split decisions when everything is moving quickly. I say, keep the digital marking, but keep the chain gang for the players. Btw, I heard in soccer, the ball has a GPS inside. If you mapped out a football field as a digital grid and gave the football a GPS, it would be the same.
The NFL publicly partnering with Vegas and all the betting platforms has brought us to this point. This is merely an illusion of integrity. The refs are already used too much to manipulate the outcomes of certain drives due to the overwhelming popularity of prop and in game live betting and the NFL is catching on to the fact that the fans are not as dumb as they think. From a TV audience pov, the game today is a trainwreck to watch. Nothing organic about nearly 100% emphasis on offense, narrative driven matchups, handcuffing defenses by changing rules practically every year, etc. Casuals will see this technology and figure oh seems legit, however the technology can be just as easily manipulated as the camera angles used when the chain gang is on the field. At a live game I have seen the back official of the chain gang move forward and backward multiple times to manipulate the line of scrimmage/first down marker. And on TV the cameras only focus on the first down marker of the chain gang lol. NFL been rigged. Wake up folks!
Ya know some things just don't need to be that accurate. We still have people putting the ball in place to start the downs and it's not like they have to bring out the chains after every play. At some point it will be robots doing everything including being the players. What fun is that?
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I don't think you can get rid of the sticks as they are important visuals for both the teams and the fans to visually see the down and distance.
Reminds me of when Walmart first got self checkout lanes 🙄😂😂
And instantly started arresting regular shoppers of stealing when the equipment was faulty.
From a players standpoint having the sticks so they have a visual when it comes to where they need to get to to obtain a first down.
100% agree. I can't tell you how many I have told an offensive player "you have to get to the sticks", or told a defensive player "put your feet on the sticks".
Exactly
They will have to keep a ground crew to set the 1st down marker. The players on the field do not see the shaded colors like we do on TV.
Yayy, 40 seconds of additional commercials!
That we'll see over and over 20 times.
I agree. Great drama in the chain gang. Human element. Great visuals & points of reference those orange and black sticks on the sidelines for not just the players but us as well. Tech Will sanitize the game
How trustworthy is is tech,,, really,, the chain isn’t low tech,, it’s true every time,, best way to measure anything,,, every one wants instant information,, but now your going to put all your trust into a computer once again,
Don't need more tech, please!
It’s not gonna save any time, the networks won’t give up 40 seconds of ad break.
But the flow of the game will be better.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would extreme accuracy of the first-down line be needed if there is soooo much inaccuracy in the ball placement?
And improving that is extremely difficult, because the ball can't know where it was when a knee or elbow hit the ground. The officials are frequently pulling the spot out of their ass from a ball under a pile of people.
Excellent comment, and best argument against this.
Actually the balls have GPS built-in or they have been experimenting with it.
Being able to see the chain gang on TV gives an immediate reference of where the ball is on the field, the down, and where the ball is in relation to the 10 yards needed to gain.
I think they still need to have a visual indicator of where the first down is. How many times have you seen a runner or receiver dive towards the first down marker?
good call. players & fans need some reference points
Agreed
You would still need some way of letting the players know where the line of gain is so that they know how far they need to go to get a first down. That's currently done with the line of gain stick, the far end of the 10-yeard first down chain. Unless technology can somehow draw a line on the turf (maybe with a laser?) you would still need someone holding a stick at the line of gain.
And do the players and fans really care if the first down is made or not made by half an inch? There's nostalgia in the chain gang., with their 40-second measurement giving both teams time to decide what the next play will be.
The weakness of the chain gang has always been what will NOT be changing. The spotting of the football by the guys in stripes. Will it save time.. well, maybe. It will vary as how many times are the chains brought out? It' literally varies from game to game. Still, less than a single replay review. Not sure this will ACTUALLY improve anything (and highly doubtful it will).. but the perception of it is there so people will get warm and fuzzys over it.
The nfl taking another exciting part of the game away from the fans. Every time there is a measurement it intrigues the teams, the stadium and even the fans on tv. That 40 seconds is exciting for all fans on either side of ball.
The chains are checked before the game, during the week for operational durability, they are put to the lines on the field to ensure they match the field and are 10 yards.
Starting to give up on the enjoyment of the nfl.
save 40 seconds so they can add another commercial. Yea Right.
I'm surprised the accuracy is only to the half inch. I've seen this technology used in tennis on occasion and it seems like its accurate down to the millimeter.
Exactly!
@@brodiebrazil The NHL should deploy this technology. It's very frustrating to have a goal called and then wait another 2+ minutes to confirm if the puck is in the net or if the linesman missed an off side call.
1.) The balli in tennisis much less obstructed than a football
2.) Tennis isn't played in crappy weather.
3.) Tennis balls are far smaller than footballs
4.) Wireless signals are notoriously unreliable in bigger stadiums
@@stephkent2736 I was going to write a comment very similar. Good job!
@frogger1952 yeah but they are MUCH closer to the ball, these cameras will be HIGH up above the stands, hundreds of feet from the ball
:40 secs = Revenue.
I wonder if that includes eliminating eventually the person that marks the first down line. I can’t imagine the NFLPA would go for that. Having that first down marker is huge when playing.
The marker will likely stay.
For me I'm not interested in speeding up the game. We are all moving too fast - lets slow things down a bit. Good time to go get another beer.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but overall i dont understanding everyones fixation on having every call in every sport to be 100 percent perfect every time, we went 100 plus years with human error being a part of the game, and nobody ever had any issues with it. Know a small part of that was the tech wasnt there, but I found the game more enjoyable before replays, and this is just another step away from that
Great song working on the “chain gang”, oh never mind.
In tennis and volleyball matches, they use cameras to show the landing spot of the ball, especially when it is very close to the lines, for indisputable calls. Accuracy of calling is important in sports.
They are giving new life to the phrase "It's a game of inches".
It's like self-checkout at Wal Mart.
Lots of new changes in the NFL!
once again a very informative video - thanks Brodie ! my two cents is that the suspense that builds while waiting for chain measurement is part of the game drama. we dont have patience anymore - especially younger generation (boomer here)
faster is not always better. plus - as a retired teacher we still need physical images of distances -- to actually visualize what 10 yds looks like -- too many kids rely on devices to tell them what measurements are without having any context - its no wonder math scores are plummeting.
You missed some major n significant points.
The first point is that over the course of the game losing 40 seconds of getting your blood oxygen level up for the larger players will be gone . That means increased fatigue over the course of the game. Significant.
Second, you didn’t discuss how the system would be able to deal with the most classic controversy is where the knee was down where the ball was at that moment . The system spot those two different events accurately? Unlike tennis where it’s where a single ball is in American football, it can mean body parts as well as the ball.
Most of the controversy is not over the spot on a clean play. The spot contentions are mostly on unusual or complex plays that require knowing more than just wear the ball is it involves where the players body parts are. In other words, the way you describe the systemic and handle simple plays, but not complex ones because you didn’t provide detail.
Lastly, this is entertainment. It’s not open heart surgery. Nobody really cares about accuracy that much. Besides half the fun of being a fan is having something to bitch about.
That 40 seconds are needed for the players to breathe. Slow down and take a look and for the players to reset.
Removing the chain gang could potentially change the way the game is played. Those 40s are a defacto time out for both sides. Thats 40 seconds to come up with a play. Physically talk to coaches instead of using the radio etc
The time savings would be in not stopping the clock for a first down. Now the clock is stopped for each 1st down to reset the chains. It takes a lot longer to do a measurement than 40 seconds.
Plant sensors on the jersey, pants, shoes and the ball, they will give the most accurate downs and distance.
Would they need to keep the people out there with the sticks just so the people in the stadium know where the 1st down and line of scrimmage are, or would they just somehow project those lines on the field in real life like they do on TV?
The system they used in UFL didn't seem to save any time at all. Instead of watching the chain dragged out for "40 seconds", you watch some lame computer graphic for 40 seconds.
They used it in a USC game last year and it was instantaneous. Kirk Herbstriett was shocked at the speed lol
The UFL was playing for drama... the tech is nearly instantaneous.
They still need the 'chain gang' on the field so the PLAYERS know where the 1st down line is.
MY question is how will the ref know where to place the ball based on Hawkeyes view.
Without taking off their shoes.
You know the first malfunction and people will lose the plot and demand the chains back.
You should replace the jockstraps with Kotex
😂😂😂
A quote from Brad Pasley, " I'm going to miss you " haha
How much time would it really save? How many times per game are the chains brought out? If it saves 40 seconds, like Sony says, then if the measurement is checked twice, that's not even a minute and a half.
For me, the issue is accuracy, not saving time.
Why not have sensors in the ball? I am sure the tech exists where it can all be applied to the inner liner.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ why play the game?
Big mistake. The NFL is great theater and the chain gang is part of its drama. That's why there hasn't really been much of a groundswell to replace them. The bigger issue is in spotting the ball.
This is my concern - the lack of drama. But I suppose losing that drama is worth also losing the drama of fans losing their minds over a bad call.
Agreed! Bringing out the chains is cool. I like that it's a physical thing you see and not just computers or light beams, etc. I like the drama of it. Keep the chains!
Maybe they could add some kind of on-field theater of using the device, but doesn't stop the game as long for inane time-consuming things like having to carry a chain across the field (boring) to get to the dramatic measurement (exciting).
they can still do a dramatic animation on the big screen exactly how they do it in tennis. That animation isn't the system working on the result. That's instant.
I can’t agree. How is it theatrical when you take 5 or 6 minutes to run super slow motion to determine if someone did or didn’t catch the ball. And do this multiple times in a game
What is needed is to have an electronic gizmo in the football itself. After the tackle there would be no judgement calls by the refs to where the ball is placed for the next down. In fact, referees could be eliminated completely and their wages absorbed by the league. Overhead cameras with a person sitting in Los Angeles or New York could see and decide on holding, face mask, false starts, excessive roughness etc. I can see it now..."...and this horse collar penalty is brought to you by Schlitz beer." The NFL would get new sources of revenue.
I always thought it would be a tracker in the ball and a way to spot the exact location at all times eliminating the need for the refs to spot the ball.
They used this during a USC game last year (iirc) and even Kirk Herbstriett was shocked at how fast the decisions were able to be made.
Edit: Washington at USC (the game is available in its entirety on RUclips lol)
Not true as to not changing. The NFL has tried all kinds of analog devices but the simple chain is the king of the measuring tools. I look forward to what comes next.
Why not put a sensor in the ball that is streaming it's position and then when the ref clicks a button on a remote when they think the player is down then that is the spot of the ball. This would eliminate the human error of the ref in trying to figure out exactly where the ball was when the player is called down. It would only have to transmit to the closest ref. Each ref would have a remote with a button and a small screen with ball position. When they press the button when they judge the play is dead that would show on a small screen (could be strapped to their wrist) They would also have a live display of ball position so when they spot the ball they look at their wrist until the ball is at the position where the play was called dead. This would be simpler and more accurate than cameras all over the place.
I'll miss the chain gangs.
It would have to be infallible and technology is sometimes not quite perfect either. There would have to be an extreme degree of accuracy. Calibration would have to be done before each game and verified, and on a backup system. Interesting times we are living in.
Put the technology in the football to pinpoint its location to eliminate any possible bias or error of the official
Ken Stabler would have more Super Bowls than Tom Brady! NFL...........Keep it like it is! This new kickoff format is HOKEY!
Yeah .... but what about if a foot is in/out or where the ball should be down'd is the knee down etc etc. I think it's about time there's technology on where the ball is spotted. I always wondered if the tech was going to be visual or something inside the ball.
Use the USFL Dicker Rod.
This type of technology was being discussed as early as the 1980's. That incarnation was to use four devices that used laser beams: two at the point where a first down in a series was to start, the other two at the next line to gain. Each device had a laser emitter at the bottom and a detector on a 90 degree angle along with a then state of the art display that was to tell each member of the 'chain gang' that (1) they were 10 yards apart from one another, (2) that the device was being held at the appropriate angle, and (3) that the beam crossed the field at the appropriate points. When in alignment, the result was to be a red, rectangular box of light beams to indicate these points. The premise was simple - if the ball was beyond the beam or the beam going across the line to gain was interrupted by the ball? The "red rectangle" was broken, and a first down achieved - at which point the four people operating the device moved to the new points. The NFL gave up on the idea because in test runs, the crew operating the devices spent more time lining up the beam emitters and their receivers on each device "just right" to create the rectangle than it took for a chain gang to run out on the field and do their thing.
There is a crown in the middle of the field!
That’s the sound of the men
Working on the chain…gang
Don’t you know?
That’s the sound of the men
Working on the chain…gang
I like it. Let's keep the game moving. Everyone who opposes it now will be fine with it later. Same with the new kickoffs. Admittedly, it looks weird right now, but I can see it saving injuries. The QB slide rule is weird, but it works, and we understand it now, right?
Injuries are part of the game. Turning it into Flag Football is not.
It's about time. Too many times the officials have trouble keeping up with the action and are out of position to make an accurate call, and too many careers come down to whether or not the spot was accurate. However how would the Hawk-Eye tech be affected by weather conditions? For instance, how effective would it be in conditions like the Fog Bowl, or hard rain or snow? Or even 10 degrees below 0 on The Frozen Tundra? So I think it's a smart move to keep the chain gang as backup. But I'm really glad to see there's some progress. Now if only MLB would let tech call accurate balls and strikes.
It would probably be superior in snow as the physical field lines may not be visible.
But will it work in outdoor stadiums like Lambeau Field in Wisconsin? No lines when it snows. Or raining and muddy field.
Do they work outside in real weather like LAMBEAU FIELD? Winter? More advance Cameras don't like the cold.
Having only seen this used during a couple game so far I can say ultimately they got every first down call correct. The only thing they need to improve it the time it took for the call to get to the Refs. I believe in one game it took something like 7:00 minutes to get the call.
What good is 100% accuracy to a half inch when the league knows who they want to win.
Can we replace the refs with unbiased AI?
That wasn't an index card, it was a check from Jerry Jones.
Did you say "volunteering there time" ? Are you kidding me?!?
I love this but I have no idea how this works when players on both sides need the sticks a landmarks...
They will still need to rely on the referees placing the ball correctly in order to determine the location of the football. Or is there a way to determine the exact location of the ball at the point where it becomes dead? The ball carrier’s knee touches ground but the player lunges forward for extra yards. So in order for the system to accurately determine the exact location of the ball when the player touches the ground, the system would need to be able to see or have sensors all over the ball and the players. Maybe there is more sophisticated technology that can determine that like using laser grids. It will be interesting to see how they accomplish it.
We have to much tech. Refs, and chain gangs is part of the experience.
I'm close to not watching the game due to them removing everything great about the game.
How about trying the Dickerod?
Was looking to see if anyone else knew about this.
🤣
So couldn't they use the same technology to gauge whether the ball breaks the end zone plane, when TD questions arise? Even incorporate these measurement cameras into replay, should be possible.
So fine, you measure say at the sideline where player went down. How is the ball accurately respoted at center of field? If measuring to millimeters it will be difficult to respot accurately.
This should help prevent First Downs Syndrome.
Now, if we can only get the official to mark the ball where the player actually went out.
It's about time!
Well, Hawkeye should also spot the ball
My question is, what will players have as a visual for where the first down marker is?
How will the players recognize/locate the first down marker on the field? Nothing changes, the referee will still spot the ball.
In baseball, when are we going to call balls and strikes from the out field camera?
Are they going to have a sensor in the ball so the system knows when the ball is down so the spot of the ball is accurate.
The first time in preseason was 3:30 haha 40 sec my ass
I used to be a high school official. The chain and chain gang is pretty accurate. You said the reason yourself. "Sony" It's about the corporations.
I think where it could be most useful is determining whether a player's foot is touching the line or not in real time.
Will they have to remove the crown of the field to let the lasers work across the entire field?
The question is, will it be 3D or ground level observation only?
Are you going to do a video on the Cleveland Browns new stadium
How does Hawkeye work with 20 players on top of the ball?
What?!?!? They aren't going to start using the Dickerod instead?
Does Hawkeye keep an eye on Hotlips?
What happens if there is a power Failure?
You mentioned that it speeds up the game. Question for research, how many times do the chains come out to measure in a game? So then figure out the cost per second to install this technology on the savings it will give.
Since the position on first down is just eyeballed from the sidelines, I've always thought it a little silly to be pulling out an index card to measure.
I wonder, if it's even possible with a non-round ball, if they'll ever use technology with the ball, such as in soccer to confirm whether the ball crossed over the goal line for a score.
I know in football, there are elements such as timing, such as whether the runner is ruled down which would have to be coordinated. But at the least, perhaps it could determine if the ball DID NOT reach the goal line, which could overturn an erroneous field ruling of a score.
Hawk eye? Did the University of Iowa trademark the word Hawk eye? So every time the word is used, the University will get a royalty? The money made would easily pay for the NIL collective!
I know they use it in Cricket for years now and works really well
@paulmezzetta6905 it was invented by a British called Paul Hawkins bench Hawk eye
A half-inch will be more than accurate enough. Do you think they get the stick that close when the ball is in the middle of the field and move the chain for a first down? I doubt the ball is spotted within a half-inch of the actual spot very often. What percent of downs end within six inches of the first down marker.
Leave things alone, if they keep it up they will destroy the game like NASCAR done some years back.
Thank goodness. One of the most laughably ridiculous aspects of all sport is going to go. About time this pathetic aspect of support was removed.
Does the system measure the spot of the ball offcial placed, or measure the spot in play? From what I have seen the system used in other sports (tennis, soccer, basketball), I think the system measures the ball in play so the human element is completely eliminated. So, in situations like forth down and short, judgement for the first down could be announced immediately, or the system is used only in situations where the result is inconlusive? Either way, it would be very interesting to see how it works.
Don't even need technology. Make it a hard line for a 1st down. Ball is on the 27, 1st down is the 37.
So if the ball is really close to a yard line (either side), a team would need to gain essentially 11 or perhaps only 9 yards? How would you round, especially if it's right in the middle of the yard lines?
it is being used now in mlb the strike zone box.
How would this be able to handle bad weather i.e. snow (green bay, buffalo) bad rain storms (Miami, Jacksonville)
If you're using cameras
I remember the Dicker Rod from the WFL One guy could mark the ball and measure the first down
With all this technology. what happens if something like bad weather causes the system to go down flaky? I mean snow can't stick to the camera lenses? Do you have the chain gang sit around and then go out then sit around?
whenever technology is created to make things better, it can also be used for harm. Just think if they want to rig a game how they can manipulate the first down technology to either give or take away a first down.
Unlike tennis where the technology eliminated the human element by having a camera with a clear view of the line and where the ball hit relative to it,. Wheres in football this technology doesn't come into play until a human being decides where the ball will be on the field. I always chuckle when the ref reaches into the pile of bodies to get the ball, waits for the players to clear, and then with unquestionable precision (fractions of an inch) places the ball on the field.
From the players, who are on the field, the chain gang is a quick visual reference for them especially for running routes past the 1st down (when you need 20 yds because of a penalty before), linemen, db's, even for any ball carrier when running down the sideline to get to the first down. Although you're not focused on the sideline chains during when a play begins and you're reacting to the situation as a play develops, as a player you will have a general indication to help you do what and how to commit. All these little visual information help add up to make split decisions when everything is moving quickly.
I say, keep the digital marking, but keep the chain gang for the players.
Btw, I heard in soccer, the ball has a GPS inside. If you mapped out a football field as a digital grid and gave the football a GPS, it would be the same.
I think they'd always keep the chain gang for your reasons, plus as backup in case of malfunctions.
ITS GREAT THEATRE
like watching reporters with their cell phones stuck in peoples faces
Make a phone that looks like a microphone
The NFL publicly partnering with Vegas and all the betting platforms has brought us to this point. This is merely an illusion of integrity. The refs are already used too much to manipulate the outcomes of certain drives due to the overwhelming popularity of prop and in game live betting and the NFL is catching on to the fact that the fans are not as dumb as they think. From a TV audience pov, the game today is a trainwreck to watch. Nothing organic about nearly 100% emphasis on offense, narrative driven matchups, handcuffing defenses by changing rules practically every year, etc. Casuals will see this technology and figure oh seems legit, however the technology can be just as easily manipulated as the camera angles used when the chain gang is on the field. At a live game I have seen the back official of the chain gang move forward and backward multiple times to manipulate the line of scrimmage/first down marker. And on TV the cameras only focus on the first down marker of the chain gang lol. NFL been rigged. Wake up folks!
Ya know some things just don't need to be that accurate. We still have people putting the ball in place to start the downs and it's not like they have to bring out the chains after every play. At some point it will be robots doing everything including being the players. What fun is that?
Accurate within 0.5 inches.
Many measurements by chain are less than 0.5 inches
It'll make Vegas happy knows they could program the computer to not give first downs if the want too