i always assumed that O'Brien was like a middle ranking civil servant, powerful enough to be safe but not so powerful that he was a threat to the top of the party so would not be purged
O'Brien reforming thought criminals is not work - it's leisure ;-) It's the equivalent of an executive playing video games in the evening, when they come back from work. Seriously though, we get a glimpse of what O'Brien's "real" work is like in the novel, when Winston and Julia visit him at his home. He seems to be in charge of approving/rejecting Party projects, proposals and policies, and apportioning funds to them. He even notes in passing, about a proposal, that it is "doubleplus ridiculous, verging on crimethink" (I always thought, when reading this, "whoever made that proposal is surely scheduled for vaporization" 🙂)
Now I imagine him having a group of pals who do the same thing and they get together in some smoky club to compare notes and compete for having the most interesting cases 😁
O'Brien is the equivalent of an inquisitor who deals in specialized cases on behalf of the Inner Party. Probably has a nice benefits package too and a vacation home on the coast
Excellent video,Sir. I think you're right. O'Brien is close to the executive, but not quite. An Upper Inner Party member who possesses the proper skills and experience for the tough cases.
It would be brilliant if the Orwell estate uncovered a genuine stash of notes or something on these characters and world and had an editor collate them (Christopher Tolkien style). Unfortunately, probably won't happen. It's a shame Orwell was dying and rushed when he wrote the novel.
I think winston was a test case. They specifically mention how his multiple forms or thought crime was so rare. Hence justifying a more competent interrigator, to not only ensure he does break, but also to prove to themselves their dedication to breaking each and every individual case rather than allowing anything to slip theough the cracks
If i had to guess the party has some leadership circle that inner party members could rise up to but O'Brian isn't one of them. He's probably happy with his job as he has everything he needs and a hobby he enjoys.
When O’Brien is introduced in the story, I was left with the impression that he held a very senior position in minitruth. Who else would be interested or know how to identify an underling who had written specific articles that used 9th edition words? I don't dispute him possibly being in the Thought Police, but it seems plausible that he'd not only hold a high minitruth position, but also the responsibility of instructing one of his underlings who has gone astray. During part3, the interrogation describes at least one of O'Brien's responses to Winston as professorial, like an elder who was interested in educating Winston about his errors. With that in mind, I think O'Brien was a high-up in minitruth.
Could I suggest looking into the possibility of Neo Bolshevism and Death Worship being different from English Socialism? The three ideologies being indistinguishable is nonsensical as even two countries with the same ideology end up different. The only proof we really have of them being the same is from the Theory of Oligarchical collectivism but I don't find that book reliable. It's themes of hopelessness is something a rebel would never write, and it's highly unlikely the brotherhood actually wrote the book.
Remeber tho that the party controls the past and the overall shape of reality for the citizens. The culture wouldn’t evolve the same way a “normal” culture would. Partially because East Asia and Eurasia would have no past to base their culture off of, no heritage, and no free thought. The party’s goal is to society at a certain point in time to preserve power
The fact that he co-wrote "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" indicates that he has a very high rank in my opinion. (Unless he's lying about that of course.)
It seems to me that there are not very many thought criminals. The propaganda and the fear keeps the numbers low. Of the actual thought criminals come out there are two segments: low-level imbeciles, like Parsons and the dangerous ones, like Winston. This would make O'Brien a specialist, assigned to the complicated cases. Using military ranks, I would class him a field grade officer. Major, Lieutenant Colonel or Colonel.
I always imagined that people like O'Brien were every where in Oceania, trolling about the ranks of the party seeking to lure shaky cases IDed via surveillance into open thoughtcrime.
You shouldn't assume that like there are lots of outer party jobs with questinable productoivity, that there isn't a sizable number of pure parasites in the inner party.
I could see him having a "cover" job as an administraror in the Ministry of Truth but his *real* job is exactly what he does in the book. Approaching people who seem like thought criminals and would be rebels and screwing them over.
I sometimes get "glitched" by RUclips (can't "like" and sometimes the screen command for landscape/portrait (or "fullscreen")) disappears. So I reboot my phone, and "normality" is restored.
With O'Brien in 1984, I always envisioned him being a superior inner party member. Possibly O'Brien is the leader of the Ministry or, O'Brien is Big Brother, who comes down to the level of a mere worker in the Ministry of Truth, and as an inquisitor in the Ministry of Love. O'Brien oversees many tortures of people who deem themselves free of the party only to shatter their mind to fit them within the party or the collective unconscious of Oceania.
I don't think Big Brother exists at all. Big Brother is the party and the party is Big Brother. He maybe once existed in the early times of the party. Like Mao is everywhere in today China.
I'd like to see that. I can imagine it. - Gets on the bus: "I thought the fare was $2?" - O'Brien: "You suffer from a defective memory. The fare is $3. The fare has always been $3!"
Symbolically, wouldn't you say that O'Brien actually represents Big Brother himself? The moment when O'Brien walks into Winston's cell has always struck me as Big Brother being revealed to us. I know that O'Brien isn't really Big Brother; in fact, I don't think Big Brother actually exists, but in the story O'Brien represents Big Brother's power and deception. Am I wrong?
I agree. BB is the party, the party IS BB. Like Mao's picture everywhere in China. There once was a real Mao but he is long gone. Now there is kind of a transcendental Mao that is the Chinese party
I feel at this point you are kinda over analyzing it a bit. Of course I am not opposed to that. But with Eric Arthur Blair, if you overanalyze it, you loose track of the key message which is of course dependent on the stage of his life he was in while writing it and the extend of his understanding of communism at that time. So prior to his "Homage to Catalonia" his writings were pro communist, afterwards he slowly started to become more aware of its contradictions and then in Animal Farm became critical of it. By "1984" he realized the contradictions were intentional and that there is a difference in ideology between the common followers and the party officials with the former being absolute materialists and the latter being absolute idealists. And that's what "2+2=5" hints at. Because the kinds of communists he is criticizing in 1984 are the ones who reject objective physical reality. So you can't ignore the tremendous implications of this key message. If you understand that, you understand that the line of work O'Brien is truly in is actually that of a clergy and the god he believes in is himself.
As a lover of Orwell's work, I intend never to read "Julia": I don't want to approach a day when some of "Julia" clouds my memory of the original 1984.
I did that, once, when I read "Bored of the Rings". I'm glad I read it, but I hate when I remember something from BOTR over something from the original LOTR, even if only for a chuckle.
@@donaldwycoff4154 it reads like a tumblr fanfic. Julia breaks the brainwashing of the ministry of love, joins the resistance, escapes to the countryside with her new lover. She finds Big Brother and he's an old man with Alzheimers. It's dire.
@@judyhopps9380 Many thanks for the insight. I believe the only thing singular about Big Brother was his image. In part 3, O'Brien describes how it is the party that is immortal, not the individual. I always thought this was evidence that BB was long gone. In Oceania there is but one Truth, and it was the inner party who defined it, and the outer party workers in minitruth who perfected history to match the future with the past. Exchanging BB for a new leader and imagery would unleash a new leader who might be flawed in some unforeseen way. Why change BB when he was already flawless and represented the party to perfection? That in mind, I could never accept that Julia could find him with Alzheimers.
@@judyhopps9380wtf, really? Or are you joking? I wonder why people feel the urge to write shitty unnecessary books.. and specifically why try to approach an immortal masterpiece like 1984
The message of the Bible is that no matter how evil you think you are, no matter how far you feel you are from God, you can get right with God. You can go to heaven. All you have to do is put your full trust in Jesus. The message of the Bible is that Jesus was punished for all the evil things you have done or will ever do. He loved you so much that he was willing to die a horrible, brutal death for what you did. He was punished for your actions. If you believe in him and trust him you will have eternal life with God. You will not go to hell because Jesus already went for you. All you have to do is trust in Jesus. Nothing else. You don't have to go to church. You don't have to give money to people. You don't have to do anything but believe in what Jesus did. That he sacrificed himself for you so that you could go to heaven.
"When 'Jesus', himself Appears to Show his Existence and Tells the Whole World, and Not just some Back-Water Iron-Age Nobodies of his Thoughts and Feelings, ... That, is When I Will Care about Your 'Sky-Daddy', my ... Friend ".
O'Brien's secretary: Hello Sir, it's time for your 2:30 torture.
O'Brien: Ah yes, yes, the reschedule from Monday. Spiders, wasn't it?
Lol - that would be crazy if that's how his day went.
-You almost sound like you don't want to be tortured
-I don't want to be tortured
i always assumed that O'Brien was like a middle ranking civil servant, powerful enough to be safe but not so powerful that he was a threat to the top of the party so would not be purged
O'Brien reforming thought criminals is not work - it's leisure ;-) It's the equivalent of an executive playing video games in the evening, when they come back from work.
Seriously though, we get a glimpse of what O'Brien's "real" work is like in the novel, when Winston and Julia visit him at his home. He seems to be in charge of approving/rejecting Party projects, proposals and policies, and apportioning funds to them. He even notes in passing, about a proposal, that it is "doubleplus ridiculous, verging on crimethink" (I always thought, when reading this, "whoever made that proposal is surely scheduled for vaporization" 🙂)
Now I imagine him having a group of pals who do the same thing and they get together in some smoky club to compare notes and compete for having the most interesting cases 😁
O'Brien is the equivalent of an inquisitor who deals in specialized cases on behalf of the Inner Party. Probably has a nice benefits package too and a vacation home on the coast
He is the Grand Inquisitor of Oceana
Excellent video,Sir. I think you're right. O'Brien is close to the executive, but not quite. An Upper Inner Party member who possesses the proper skills and experience for the tough cases.
It would be brilliant if the Orwell estate uncovered a genuine stash of notes or something on these characters and world and had an editor collate them (Christopher Tolkien style). Unfortunately, probably won't happen. It's a shame Orwell was dying and rushed when he wrote the novel.
@nineteen-eighty-four-lore That would be amazing
The note that Idi Amin “finished people off with a sledgehammer” was immediately followed by a weirdly appropriate ad for golf clubs
Funnily enough; my advert was for power tools lol
@@markramone69
Some AI has my kind of warped sense of humor LOL.
Idi Amin: Do you know the difference between a man and a slave?
This Channel is incredible. The ignorant will never see this channel. And the liars and subverters will fear it.
Bro asking the truest questions
Great touch with the younger picture of Richard Burton!
Another brilliant video sir.
Thanks. :)
I think winston was a test case. They specifically mention how his multiple forms or thought crime was so rare. Hence justifying a more competent interrigator, to not only ensure he does break, but also to prove to themselves their dedication to breaking each and every individual case rather than allowing anything to slip theough the cracks
Where do they mention that Winston's case is rare?
If i had to guess the party has some leadership circle that inner party members could rise up to but O'Brian isn't one of them. He's probably happy with his job as he has everything he needs and a hobby he enjoys.
I'm convinced. He's a specialist in the Thought Police.
I love your videos
A new 1984 video lesgooooooo
When O’Brien is introduced in the story, I was left with the impression that he held a very senior position in minitruth. Who else would be interested or know how to identify an underling who had written specific articles that used 9th edition words? I don't dispute him possibly being in the Thought Police, but it seems plausible that he'd not only hold a high minitruth position, but also the responsibility of instructing one of his underlings who has gone astray. During part3, the interrogation describes at least one of O'Brien's responses to Winston as professorial, like an elder who was interested in educating Winston about his errors. With that in mind, I think O'Brien was a high-up in minitruth.
Could I suggest looking into the possibility of Neo Bolshevism and Death Worship being different from English Socialism? The three ideologies being indistinguishable is nonsensical as even two countries with the same ideology end up different. The only proof we really have of them being the same is from the Theory of Oligarchical collectivism but I don't find that book reliable. It's themes of hopelessness is something a rebel would never write, and it's highly unlikely the brotherhood actually wrote the book.
Remeber tho that the party controls the past and the overall shape of reality for the citizens. The culture wouldn’t evolve the same way a “normal” culture would. Partially because East Asia and Eurasia would have no past to base their culture off of, no heritage, and no free thought. The party’s goal is to society at a certain point in time to preserve power
The fact that he co-wrote "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" indicates that he has a very high rank in my opinion. (Unless he's lying about that of course.)
I am not paying taxes in oceania
The scary part of that idea, even the notion of it would get one disappeared. Now, in my terms, i’d describe that as counting coppers.
It seems to me that there are not very many thought criminals. The propaganda and the fear keeps the numbers low.
Of the actual thought criminals come out there are two segments: low-level imbeciles, like Parsons and the dangerous ones, like Winston. This would make O'Brien a specialist, assigned to the complicated cases. Using military ranks, I would class him a field grade officer. Major, Lieutenant Colonel or Colonel.
He takes care of business
Big brother is watching
Always
I always imagined that people like O'Brien were every where in Oceania, trolling about the ranks of the party seeking to lure shaky cases IDed via surveillance into open thoughtcrime.
You shouldn't assume that like there are lots of outer party jobs with questinable productoivity, that there isn't a sizable number of pure parasites in the inner party.
I could see him having a "cover" job as an administraror in the Ministry of Truth but his *real* job is exactly what he does in the book.
Approaching people who seem like thought criminals and would be rebels and screwing them over.
There's hundreds of hours a month that had nothing to do with Winston
Why is my like not sticking ,is big brother interfering (not kidding 😶)
You need to use the double plus like button brother.
I sometimes get "glitched" by RUclips (can't "like" and sometimes the screen command for landscape/portrait (or "fullscreen")) disappears.
So I reboot my phone, and "normality" is restored.
Reminds me of the movie Rupture.
Request: please do a video on Lorin Maazel’s opera of 1984.
With O'Brien in 1984, I always envisioned him being a superior inner party member. Possibly O'Brien is the leader of the Ministry or, O'Brien is Big Brother, who comes down to the level of a mere worker in the Ministry of Truth, and as an inquisitor in the Ministry of Love. O'Brien oversees many tortures of people who deem themselves free of the party only to shatter their mind to fit them within the party or the collective unconscious of Oceania.
I don't think Big Brother exists at all. Big Brother is the party and the party is Big Brother.
He maybe once existed in the early times of the party. Like Mao is everywhere in today China.
What happens to Irish people in oceania
I would guess he works at the Ministry of Love.
Must have some Irish in him too
Julia is great mate
Maybe a Bus DRiver and this is his part time job / hobbie / extra curricular
I'd like to see that. I can imagine it.
- Gets on the bus: "I thought the fare was $2?"
- O'Brien: "You suffer from a defective memory. The fare is $3. The fare has always been $3!"
Symbolically, wouldn't you say that O'Brien actually represents Big Brother himself? The moment when O'Brien walks into Winston's cell has always struck me as Big Brother being revealed to us. I know that O'Brien isn't really Big Brother; in fact, I don't think Big Brother actually exists, but in the story O'Brien represents Big Brother's power and deception. Am I wrong?
I agree. BB is the party, the party IS BB.
Like Mao's picture everywhere in China. There once was a real Mao but he is long gone. Now there is kind of a transcendental Mao that is the Chinese party
I feel at this point you are kinda over analyzing it a bit. Of course I am not opposed to that. But with Eric Arthur Blair, if you overanalyze it, you loose track of the key message which is of course dependent on the stage of his life he was in while writing it and the extend of his understanding of communism at that time. So prior to his "Homage to Catalonia" his writings were pro communist, afterwards he slowly started to become more aware of its contradictions and then in Animal Farm became critical of it. By "1984" he realized the contradictions were intentional and that there is a difference in ideology between the common followers and the party officials with the former being absolute materialists and the latter being absolute idealists. And that's what "2+2=5" hints at. Because the kinds of communists he is criticizing in 1984 are the ones who reject objective physical reality. So you can't ignore the tremendous implications of this key message. If you understand that, you understand that the line of work O'Brien is truly in is actually that of a clergy and the god he believes in is himself.
Fascinating.
Julia was an awful book. I loathe it from start to finish. Especially the finish.
As a lover of Orwell's work, I intend never to read "Julia": I don't want to approach a day when some of "Julia" clouds my memory of the original 1984.
I did that, once, when I read "Bored of the Rings". I'm glad I read it, but I hate when I remember something from BOTR over something from the original LOTR, even if only for a chuckle.
@@donaldwycoff4154 it reads like a tumblr fanfic. Julia breaks the brainwashing of the ministry of love, joins the resistance, escapes to the countryside with her new lover. She finds Big Brother and he's an old man with Alzheimers. It's dire.
@@judyhopps9380 Many thanks for the insight. I believe the only thing singular about Big Brother was his image. In part 3, O'Brien describes how it is the party that is immortal, not the individual. I always thought this was evidence that BB was long gone. In Oceania there is but one Truth, and it was the inner party who defined it, and the outer party workers in minitruth who perfected history to match the future with the past. Exchanging BB for a new leader and imagery would unleash a new leader who might be flawed in some unforeseen way. Why change BB when he was already flawless and represented the party to perfection? That in mind, I could never accept that Julia could find him with Alzheimers.
@@judyhopps9380wtf, really? Or are you joking? I wonder why people feel the urge to write shitty unnecessary books.. and specifically why try to approach an immortal masterpiece like 1984
USA today?
"I love Big Felon!
"I've always loved Big Felon!
"IngSoc double-plus good!
"Big Felon double-plus good!
LONG LIVE BIG FELON!"
You are an ideological idiot.
@@answerman9933 I agree with you
The message of the Bible is that no matter how evil you think you are, no matter how far you feel you are from God, you can get right with God. You can go to heaven.
All you have to do is put your full trust in Jesus. The message of the Bible is that Jesus was punished for all the evil things you have done or will ever do. He loved you so much that he was willing to die a horrible, brutal death for what you did. He was punished for your actions. If you believe in him and trust him you will have eternal life with God. You will not go to hell because Jesus already went for you.
All you have to do is trust in Jesus. Nothing else. You don't have to go to church. You don't have to give money to people. You don't have to do anything but believe in what Jesus did. That he sacrificed himself for you so that you could go to heaven.
"When 'Jesus', himself Appears to Show his Existence and Tells the Whole World, and Not just some Back-Water Iron-Age Nobodies of his Thoughts and Feelings, ... That, is When I Will Care about Your 'Sky-Daddy', my ... Friend ".