Technically, A Headache! How to install Cat 3116 injectors and adjust the Rack.
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- In this video we are working on a Cat 3116 that is getting injectors installed, which normally would be easy on most Cat engines, but not the Cat 3116. In the next video we will be adjusting the rack, which is a much tougher task. @AdeptApe on Venmo or AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal for donations, thank you so much for supporting the channel!
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You’re a brave man using CAT remans on a 3116. I put a full set of remans in an 3116 powered F-750 years back. 4 were bad right out of the box. Got 4 more under new parts warranty and two of those were bad. There were no more remans at the closest depot so the dealer I worked for agreed to put 6 new ones in. Everyone was happy except me…basically doing injectors three times in an F-750 where half the engine was under the cab really made me contemplate my life choices that brought me to that situation. Cylinders 1-4 under the hood then take all the tooling in the cab to do 5-6 through the dog house…
I've done many rack adjustments on the 3116 engines. Very time consuming and a pain in the A**! Not too many people know how to do it. Love your channel Brother! Keep up the good work!! 👍🍻🍻
More than 20 years ago I had an old Cat guy I worked with say you don't need to ream the coppers if you seat the injector with the seating tool. I was thought he was nuts and lived by what the book says. Tried it and found out He was right. Now I only ream coppers if there is pitting in the seat area of the copper. I usally shine them up and press a new injector in the the seating tool.
With or without the o-ring on the bottom tho?
And engineers wonder why the average mechanic or Cat engine owner looks at something like this and says! WTF😡 were they thinking. Great video.
I've done quite a few of these from overhaul to injector replacement and adjustment, the hardest part was getting through the CAT manual on the first one I did, too confusing , but once I did more and more I could streamline the process and could say that I was satisfied with my results, a smooth running time bomb !
You are a life saver!!! Currently doing cups and trying to not pull my hair out...
Its amazing how much easier the HEUI version of this engine is to work on and how much simpler it is at least mechanically simpler!
You can remove and reinstall any injector except #1 without having to re sync every injector, once you remove #1 you must re sync them all. Usualy I find guys who have never been shown do the rack sync wrong due to the wording in the book and end up with low power.👍
On Volvo D9 engine out of the g970 graders the cups were changed out every time. The original injector used copper washers but the replacement used a tapered cup and end on the injector
I remember in 1993 in Greenland at summit drilling camp they had 2 3116 gensets
one Genset had leaking injector, copper seat. And the cat dealer would not sell me the tools to install the copper seat so I had to put together a kit of tools for the mechanic out there new cylinder, head torque wrench I believe they already have the injector setting tools.
That destruction of the week looked like pre ignition to me😊
Yup. A very bad pre. LOL
Gas engine. Funny the knock sensor did'nt pick it up.
Very nice explanation of the procedure. Thanks.
Very interesting and complex. Thanks for sharing this!
Your more of an expert than most people who comment on videos saying they know a better way to do things lol at least you have done it a couple times lol 😂 I couldn’t resist buddy great video love watching always learn something when I watch thanks for sharing
There’s different types of brass when I sold scrap metal they bought it as yellow brass and red brass that could be a red or just a brass alloy my guess
I used 1/4 in. vacuum line taped to the end of a shop vac when I had to pull shavings out of a cylinder. Worked great.
Looking at the older injector at 2:19, you can see the area above the seal it is about 3/8 of an inch wide, The other injector that is replacing it only about an 1/4 wide! That way it press in to the copper with more force in a small area. Then when you use the press down tool to force it in more to the copper, and you can see when your torquing it again it turns the bolt about a 1/4 turn insuring better holding of injector!
You actually crease the copper cup with the injector when you press it in. I only ream copper now if that crease area is pitted. If it looks ok I shine it up a bit and press it in again.
I did a fuel rack adjustment for my fuel system final at a think big course awhile back
Finally, thank you for this video!
Just like the old 2 stroke Detroit. Roll the cups in, fill with coolant and pressure test, install injectors, rack or racks, rockers, adjust valves, time injectors using the right pin, adjust racks. I spent 4 hours on an 8v71T just adjusting the rack. Get one side done then the other side was too tight.
That's why you do the #1 on each bank first. Then remove the clevis pin and adjust each 2, 3, 4, etc to its bank #1.
It was a chip spreader for doing chip sealing of highways. Shot a lot of oil in front of those over the years.
I've never had the pleasure to do a 3116.I have done a lot of the old two stroke detroits with the rack system.
These engines are a whole thing in them self's. I would have cleaned up the reamer in a lathe at the damaged location, then added more shims to start. I used a speed handle to turn the reamer, so I could push down with some force, get it down then lighten up toward the end to smooth the finish tapper. I also cleaned off grease and used a light coat of grease on reamer then do the reamer one more time, this usually gives a good finish no chatter marks ! Do not turn the reamer back wards, can damage the reamer or dull it. When putting in the injector get it down in, turn it to engagement of the rack, then move rack back and forth to make sure it is free moving in the fork so it is not giving a preload on the fork and you get easy move meet of rack.
Just to add about the o-ring on tip. When you torque onto tip o-ring it will work for a sort time. With temp and time the o-ring will deteriorate and allow the injector shift down away from hold down bolt compromising clamping force
Good Gravy that is quite a procedure!
Good job
Oh sure Josh,
i’m surprised you didn’t know it, but those cat reamer tools have multi-use purposes.., such as a punch, or counter sinking a nail, or peening in a detent ball etc., Hahaha..!
Not really, just being a smart aleck.., but you know that is why that reamer is all beat to crap.
Great video, looking forward to part 2,
Thank you sir.
Don't forget chisel such a versatile tool
The 299 with the side tanks in the background of the intro looks hot. Love the looks of those things.
I did 3116 an a fue 3114 keep up the work
Awesome stuff. When is the next pickup truck vid coming? Loved that video
you should set a two stroke detroit rack, lol cats are easy, leaving oil in those bolt holes will split the head using power tools, you should show the old rack if its the rivet one that needed the update,
Cat also say no chatter marks, I found out use shims, and a drill on low speed no down pressure, they come out great, I always pressurized the coolant system after cutting all cups, and installing injectors, At Ransome Cat, one mechanic cut cups put everything back to find out when he seated the injector it cracked the cup, it was most likely cut before. Pretty much same thing as 3126
I'll try that next time. Pushing down was how I was shown and I've had good luck with it, but I sure don't like the chatter marks on this reamer.
Better you than me. I hate these engines and stay away from them. One thing we tried was to use a speed handle to ream the seat. With a ratchet, you had the tendency to stop and get another bite. With a speed handle you can keep a steady rotation on the cutting tool. Also Carpenter make a aftermarket tool that was a lot easier over the Cat tool group to set injector synchronization.
The press tool when it came out was supposed to take to place of reaming. I ream some still if it had compression blowing by. But most of time press them in without reaming. I have had to redo some because not sealing reaming and not reaming. The smallest piece of trash will get you. And in the mines and plants when medium dozers and wheel loaders had 3116 or 3114 none would break in a clean place.
I’ve done 3 of these over the last 8 years. For injector, rack replacement and top end adjustment. An old timer told me to match fuel screw setting on new rack and sync injectors. Worked great each time. How wrong am I? Lol
I would have thought the reamer would be a carbide or stone bevel. Would leave a smoother surface.
Lot of following procedures there. They made it a bit complicated but if you have the proper information it should work. Surprised that the original ones had the o ring on the bottom but new ones don’t. You’d think that would cause placement issues. Great job on it.
The injectors were redesigned to have a short length tapper seating area, and with the tool to press the injector down then re-tighten the bolt made a big difference. The seal was not needed after the update to the injector.
I wonder if those brass seats are red brass instead of the much more common yellow brass. I don't know if I've ever seen red brass but I heard about it probably in a bar somewhere. Keep the good stuff coming buddy.
And then there's me. Took the cylinder head off my neighbor's 3114 saying I could help. Looks like I'm going to try to fabricate all this tooling myself, except I'll purchase the reamer head separate. Wish me luck!
This screams "the design had a major flaw and the engineers had to bodge together a solution without recalling every engine."
Yep and they fixed it with an ECM and HEUI lol
The first HEUI's had coppers too.
Been waiting for this video for years! Thank you!!!🫡
Spread King for a Size Queen? LOL
Go 2mm over and it’ll advance timing and help with cold starts 👍🏻 ALWAYS run the lower “suicide” o ring. It will allow carbon to seal the cups after being reemed and will make life easier.
Been 25 years since I did this..hate #5 under the firewall wall on theTOPKICK
Pozdrowienia ogladajacym z Polski ❤
I use a 90deg air drill to ream. I always get choppy cups with a ratchet
Your safety glasses with the LED light on the nose piece, I haven't seen them before, Amazon?
Those of you that can't wait on the rack adjustment should look up some good old fashioned 2 stroke rack adjustment videos
Two strokes are easier.
Use a speedwrench and skip the shims, slow steady turns, NO pressure, let the weight of the tool cut it, and please, NO ratchet. You'll get a butter smooth seating surface, pull it out every few turns and look for the old seating groove from the injector. Once the seating groove is gone, you're done, DON'T go any further. Save that cup for next time you need to shave them.
Been there done that many times.
There are cup removal/install tools for the 7.3 Powerstroke/T444E, is there something like that for these?
Have there been any larger (13-18L) four-stroke inline 6 Diesels that use this kind of fuel system?
Which fuel system? Unit injectors?
Unit injectors have been very widely used industrially until common rail became a thing.
Without knowing it, i'd imagine you'd finde a lot of semi trucks with unit injectors in that size range.
I know you asked I6, but the EMD 567/645 is a good example of a large engine using unit injectors.
The injector system is the same as the two cycle Detroit Diesel. I run a C-12. The manifold pressure has gone from 32 PSI to 20 PSI. Little loss of power, but slow to respond when throttling up. Any ideas. My guess is transfer pump is going haywire. Thanks
Whenever I see a procedure for cutting the cylinder head to renew a seal, like valves or in this case the injector body seat, it makes me wonder why they decided upon that approach. In the case with valves, since the mfr's have gone to stellite seats the valve becomes the donor for wear. Which makes sense to me, the valve is less costly to replace than the entire head or seat replacements. In the case of the injector body seal, I wonder why they didn't use a compression washer made out of copper that you could simply replace. The seat area looks the color of copper on my computer screen, and you even said it looks like copper, but when you cut it brinelling reveals the hardness of brass. But, a copper gasket, similar to a brake caliper banjo-bolt and washer seems like it would work, it's only combustion pressure, not fuel injection hydraulic pressure. But, who knows? Maybe they got a patent on the cutting tool. Remember they're in business to make money, and even though it may not seem prudent, they want to make money where ever they can and if that means tools, oh well. ben/ michigan
What kind of paint pen is used to mark torqued bolts? I've always wondered, but never asked.
Thanks for a scary story!
Isn't the 3116 a 6.6-liter?
That’s what it says on my uncle’s 3116. I think the 3126 is 7.2.
I have rebuilt somewhere around 15 of those and several 3114 engines. I hate the overhead on those engines. Our shop actually goes out and installs those copper/brass injector sleeves in, in the chassis. Did I say I hate the overhead on those engines.
Use a speed brace to do the reaming not a rachet it won't chatter the seat
You need to put more time into reaming the copper, that area needs to be super nice, you left chatter marks, that area is susceptible to passing combustion gas. We do not want come backs. You have to develop a technique of smooth turning and even pressure and thinner shims so you can cut .001". That carbide cutter wants to dig into the copper if you take too big of a bite. This step is the most important part of the job
Good day sir. We have c7 engine hard to start during morning what is the possible problem but in the after around 3pm its working.thanks
Very similar to Detroit Diesel 2-stroke setup. Did many. Don't turn reamer backwards. Only go in cutting direction.
Emd 2 cycle unit injectors are much simpler to do. One typically skips the rack adjustment when replacing a single injector. I’d check it with the tooling, and if it was within the window on the tool/gauge, it shipped. I’m not even sure if there is a cup reamer in the shop for dressing the seat in the head. I don’t think I’ve seen one floating around in the 20+ years I’ve been there. I remember some old timers saying one side of the engine thermal expands slightly more throwing out the adjustments on the racks on one bank, but I never found that to be the case.
The first engine I made overhauled before 20 years ago,
The men that named that 😅
Goldsmith!!!
1:02 I'm sure this was just a slip-up or you correct yourself later in the video, but the 3116 is 6.6L (the 7.2L was the 3126)
After all the years of the MUI system, one would think install process would change.
How ur p/u coming along, ready put a tire burner under the hood
Was just outside in the rain soldering the wiper module pulse module in the dark. It works now though.
Interesting, I'm glad I stuck with gasoline engines vs diesel engine repair.
Funny, I'm the opposite. I avoid touching anything with spark plugs if I can help it.
Massive dose of Valium needed for job,I found the carpenter brand rack tools better than cats tools.thankful they weren't plentiful in our area.
In my opinion the 3116 is one of the slowest and under horsepowered Cat engines that were built. I ran many medium duty wreckers with these engines and all of them were gutless especially the rollbacks with the automatic transmissions.
The 3208 might disagree
A lot of those engines were under 200 hp. Not the 3116's fault they were starved for fuel. We had service trucks that were 190 hp and lower. Yeah they were gutless. Backed out the fuel screw a bit and it would come alive.
The 3116s could be rated for up to 250 hp and 650 tq in the Topkicks and Kodiaks, but most came with 170 hp to 215 hp. Some fire trucks actually came with a 300 hp 732 tq version, but those are ultra rare.
Does this Fordyce by chance also drag his feet across the shop all the time?
I bet someone used a screwdriver on that ledge on the reamer to pop it out when it caught in the head. Don’t ask how I know…..Damn co worker
hello the 3125 marine engine does it cary a orange inside the chamber for the injector sleeve cup .need your help here ASAP my coolant is mixing with oil, await your quick reply
hello the 3125 marine engine does it cary a Oring inside the chamber for the injector sleeve cup .need your help here ASAP my coolant is mixing with oil await your reply thanks
Buenos días amigo porque me contamina el gasoil con aceite
How funny, they reverted to 1940's Detroit Diesel tech for the fuel system. But the Detroits were much more user friendly. Thanks
I thought it looked familiar!
Went to the equipment expo in Las Vegas when the 3500's and the 3100's first came out! Talked to the Cat representative, making Detroit's now, got a dirty look. Guess it should be easy to work on then, we both laughed and he showed me some of the workings. I was working for a Cat dealer ship!
What a guttless pooch of an engine even when new. I’ve never been more disappointed in a diesel than when driving something with a 3116 🤣
😎👍
The injector cone shape changed over the years. That old reamer sucks for the later cones. Also Cat's reamers have issues with some being not hardened correctly and they dull fast. Also the sleeves updated and who knows who manufacturers them now. Ive been seeing 3116/3126 MUI engines one after another for a couple years now-marine application. The local Cat dealer wont work on them. The company I work for now has spent well over $10,000 to support these little turds. Injectors are getting hard to find...even crappy reman. We bench/pop test them - against Cat's recommendations. Theres a company that makes an aftermarket reamer that works much better than the standard Cat reamer.
looks just like a 6/71 92 series .ie cups rack injector
You should right a book on truck maintenance for us to download a book like rawze book online he's a Cummins guru your book would be really kool peace
Air hammers and press on roller frames...I'm guessing he's doing bogie pins. They're "fun" lol.
spread king you say lol
Why can't you just replace the cup are they not serviceable part
Replacing the cup is a hole different process! Lot more tooling. It would be a video in itself. Would love to see him show it.
The cup can be replaced but only after removing the cylinder head , and requires special tooling to expand the cup to make the seal to head.
When you shave the copper sleeve, you are increasing injector protrusion.
I’m the beginning I think you mixed up the 3126 with the 3116. Because the 3116 is a 6.6l and the 3126 is a 7.2l
Fun fact: the spread king is actually an industrial cream cheese applicator capable of covering 8,000,000 bagels an hour.
Detroit set up
Twentieth 👊🏻💪🏻
We always called them detroitapillars lol
its red brass. 88% copper
Imagine trying to do this job without all the specialty tools.
Lunch's and trash? They're trash pandas!
I HATE tedious work!
Your are pushing too hard on the reamer. Gentle and as little as possible.