I've never literally laughed out loud watching a tool video before, until today. Watching the "M18" driver full send that screw was like an episode of Mythbusters where they attach big rockets to small things that eventually evaporate. Wicked amusing.
I swear this channel is my guilty pleasure. I have literally never used an impact driver and probably won't for a long time to come but _by golly_ I NEED to watch every video on here
@@chrisclement3706 Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly enough to do the math. My attention was on my boiling intestines turning yesterday into a porcelain painting.
@@TorqueTestChannelSnap on. Mac. I think matco makes some hex knuckle looking impact extensions and if possible some off brand Amazon brands if they exist
what i actually would be a LOT more interested in is a test when batteries are just half full/empty. that would give a lot more reason if better/bigger batteries are worth it because batteries dont stay full for long when working and i really want to know if a half full/empty battery can still deliver beans or peas.
Watching this makes me wonder how the high discharge Lipo batteries for RC cars would work in different power tools considering you can get some really spicy batteries
@@awwwshucks443 Depends on brand and spec really- get some good lipos and you'll easily be able to output 200+ amps continously with fairly limited voltage droop. Obviously the harder you push them the worse the voltage sag becomes, and it depends on the cell spec and brand ( just don't use maxamps lipos as they are notorious for bullshit marketing claims )...
Interesting tests! Thank you for doing them. That 7.5Ah vs HO torque curve “crossover” could be due to the HO pack’s cells better responding to heating up, lowering their internal resistance more (and thus having less voltage sag) than the cells in the 7.5Ah pack.
Been subscribed forever on my wife's RUclips since that's what we use on a daily basis on the TV but now that I have a RUclips of my own, I can comment
@@sidehoe3370 They are a little pricey, 99 right now. I normally try and get them free when they have a buy this tool and get the battery free. I have 5 of them, the last one was "free" when I bought the new M12 impact. I wish I was good enough with electronics. I would build me some. Having said that, the 5.0 is quite a bit different than their other batteries. Different material, better fit and better electronics.
I would like to see you test the Rigid 4 amp Max Output EXP tabless battery against the rest of the Rigid line of batteries in their line of impact wrenches and drivers.
I rebuilt a DeWalt compact 4ah a couple years ago with epoch p45b cells. As I'm sure you are aware they are molicel p45b (I love that they didn't even bother changing the model name). The welder I had wasn't strong enough to redo the DeWalt tabs so I re did it with the thin stuff the welder came with. Didn't even double them or anything. First tool I used it on was the orbital and there was an noticable audible difference between it and my other 4 compacts and 5s. I have plenty of large packs so the worse it typically sees is the 4.5 inch saw or 12 inch chainsaw. The thing cooks. I was also one of the ones who wanted to know about that m18 M12 adapter. I got one awhile ago to try to modify for my brushless Dremel (fail btw, Dremel and Milwaukee 12v positives and negatives are opposite) I assumed what you found, that there would be super restrictive amps. Good video.
Excellent. Added weight for cordless tools is a thing few seem to mention, especially when casually noting how they "no longer use air tools." It's easy to forget what was lost in the transition.
I wouldn't be surprised mikwaukee make a tabless cell battery for all M12 series. After this video I could see a trend in people just opening their milwaukee batteries to upgrade their own batteries with tabless cells as a cheaper repair refurbish option than costing an arm and a leg to buy a new one. If one can get so much power from an m12 compared to an 18-10 volt competitor tool, that's amazing for the M12 platform and has huge potential in my view for future tools. One thing I would liketo see though is that the pcb boards change slightly so that we have a single connector for both charging and discharging. Currently having two different 4 pin conn2ctors instead of a single 5 pin connector is quite limiting, because you can only either use a tool to discharge or charge, while it would be beneficial if we could have multibay chargers ad tools to both charge and discharge from, even be able to charge and discharge from the tool battery oksel, since electric energy is becoming more ubiquitous. I am imcreasingly experiemcing milwaukee as more inflexible in this consiladation. It may be good for designing more different monfunctional tools, but in today's climate I also use a tool battery as a charging tool device for other tools and functions in the home. Tool batteries to me have become the new energy currency than merely for tool use exclusively. Milwaukee batteries are no exception. It is strange that battery powered stations are increasingly ubiquitous, yet none of the milwaukee 2-6 multibay chargers can function as an integrated powerstation. Milwaukke has a made a two proprietary ones, but the don't provide the general usecase as a solar power battery power station with multiport PD charging or at least have one puresinewave 240 Volt port. It would be nice to have a six bay 18 and 12 V packout charger that is also a solar power station, instead of a limited usecase of a monofunctional sequential charger with only one usb port. I don't use the tools daily, so having the off day use of the batteries with a mobile solar power station would make the platform and batteries have a better value proposition. I think this is a current limiting factor in the whole platform. And maybe secondly that the platform would have 12 and 18 V pcb boards with at least a one amp active cell balancing function. I've already had 3 18V 12 Ah batteries get the three bar charging limit after 1-2 years of normal use, where upon opening the batteries I could see cell voltage drifting between cell columns. Tool.scientist showed a nice comprehensive video that confirmed that cell balancing was very small. I've seen other videos that shows the value and importance of cell balancing in battery packs. Apprently even the cell balancing in the newer forge packs hasn't significantly, which is unfortunate. It would help with general battery and pack cell health care. Nice to see these comprehensive and insightful demo's of different cell performance and characteristics in this Torque Test channel demo. One can only wish now to improve the batteries even more in the short run. There certainly seems more room for improvement for current milwaukee batteries and battery and power management and pack health solutions for all milwaukee batteries.
M12 6a the first battey I had fail. I've got 10.8v bosch that's passing 20 years without issues. Step up your game Milwaukee or I'll switch to Bosch 12v. I run Bosch 18v and have no issues. EGO, no issues.
haha you really overclocked that 12v impact lol :D P28A's are kind of old already, they are just slightly stronger than 25S cells, they have been updated with P28Bs which are also a bit stronger, and latest ones are P30B's which are just incredible, 3ah and 30A continuous (compared to 25S and VTC5A which are 2.5Ah and 25A cont). Crazy stuff, not to mention these new tabless cells!
I did a semi-scientific test with some M12 Gens vs. Temu clones. I used the rocket light run time for the test, arguably not a load test like what you all perform. GENs were 5.0 HO achieved 3.9 hours, 4.0 XC was 3 hours, 2.5 HO was 1.75 hours. My Temu, “6amp labeled” $15 boot-style ran for 3.5 hours splitting the difference between the 5.0 HO boss-battery and the 4.0. Not bad for $15. When I cracked it open there were 6 blue batteries labeled 18650 and 3.7volts, no mention of mAh. These had rubber bases, great soldiering with protected innards. Using only the ‘sound test’ the new stubby 2563 sounded and felt the same with the clone and 4.0, but with boss-battery 5.0 you could definitely hear the difference. So I did what any self-respecting junior scientist would do and I ordered some 12amp labeled clones.
There wasn't any other markings on them? Usually (not always) there is also a battery cell model printed on them, but it won't tell you that's what it is. Most of the "generic" ones use much lower mAh cells than advertised. I've built some custom packs for myself, and my battery charger has a capacity test with it so I make sure the cells I get are actually testing close to the specs told to me when purchasing.
@ No nothing. Just the size and volts. Very surprised that these outlasted the 4amp M12’s and came close to the 5.0HO for $15 apiece. Thanks to Work Shop Addict though, we now know the magic of the 5.0 is in its ability to achieve a higher sustained discharge volt threshold over time. This seems to be the reason that the Gen 2 Stubby impact performs so well with the 5.0 and then posts more pedestrian numbers with literally any other battery as shown here on TTC. Thanks to Milwaukee + new batteries with some likely proprietary circuit board sorcery, we now have a mini-stubby impact in M12 flavor that hits like a 18/20 or 24v monster.
@@TheCvp33 Surprised on the lack of info on the cells. Battery offerings seems to have taken a bit of a jump (for power tools at least) in the last few years. I still worry about the generic cell and pcb quality long term, but really for $15 if it gets you a couple years it's usually considered that it did the job as long as you know what to expect from them and what good use cases are. Thanks for the response!
@@mattwickert736 I wouldn’t run them in the stubby as has already been proven to be a let down……but where I just have a steady draw like a light, sander, buffer, etc. why not save the cycles on the uber-pricey 5.0’s? As for $15 batteries, no victory-laps here by me, but if they make 100 cycles and don’t burn my house down, we’re calling this one a win.
Its crazy that eve 40p are similar priced to 28a. I used to shiz on chinese stuff, eve, catl are changing the game. I was all about panasonic and japanese being the best, im half, but mfrg is so different than the 90s
Great video, the 20V m12 is an absolute unit! One thing I’d love to see some day is you comparing ratcheting screw-/bit drivers whatever you wanna call them. I’ve got multiple of them but sometimes cant put all that much trust into them. I would like to see what torque they can handle, maybe put into a score with their clicky resistance (the torque required to spin them the other way). I’ve got a couple of them, namely the large LTT screwdriver, the Hazet ratcheting bit screwdriver (free spinning ratchet) and, I’m unsure if you can call the last one a bit driver but I’d love to see it tested as well, the leatherman ratchet driver. Maybe you know a few other ones, I’m from Europe and I guess the Hazet is the gold standard here. Love the channel, you make some great videos!
This is straight up my alley and one of your most interesting videos to date! I fell down the 18650/21700 and tool battery rabbit hole last Febuary after thinking HARBOR FREIGHT Bauer 20v batteries were expensive 😂😂 I replaced the unknown 1.5ah cells in my used old 1.5ah Bauer with 25Rs, nice little improvement and went dummy mode and turned my 3ah into a 10ah 5s4p 25r abomination, that was more for fun as I got 40 25rs on a steep sale for when my current cells degrade enough to swap. What I'd LOVE to do is cop some of those spicy tabless 21700s and wake my 12v CXT Makita drill up🤣 those batteries are ancient and somehow still work despite years of abuse. Oh, and they're knock off too which is wild
I dont use tools of any kind but i really love your videos :) i like how you take time to explain all the bs claims that companies make with their marketing and the real differences in their capabilities. Anyways i just find them oddly interesting and relaxing 💖
you could try reducing the resistance between cells aswell by welding more tabs ontop of eachother. they use nickel strips to weld cells because they have a high resistance compared which makes them easier to spot-heat them to red hot compared to copper. copper would be ideal can only be welded with stupid high currents... or laser / ultrasonic alternatively you could solder de-solder wick ontop of the nickel strips after welding to further reduce resistance.
Nice testing! I also like the 1P larger cell packs and wonder why many manufacturers don't make more of them. I am literally making 2 Makita 1P 21700 packs at the moment! I find them the best all around. I'm glad to see these types test so well today!
I know you guys probably dont have them just yet, but Bosch released new Impact Drivers. I'd super curious about the results if you can manage to get them, especially the GDS 18V750C, which looks like a new beefy midtorque. Love what you do Keep it up.
Freaking awesome stuff! What a time to be alive in the world of tools! Personally I think Milwaukee should drop about 2 or 3 of their low line M18 that only seem to exist on their website and replace them with smaller lighter forge batteries just like the custom 4.0! Also I’ve no doubt that they could make a tabless 21700 M12 battery, as only three cells but still, that’d be awesome.
The peak discharge is the amps the battery can discharge before it goes into a thermal runaway. So to make different batterys work you would have to change the board to allow a higher discharge
Note you are using pretty thin wires in the custom battery packs. 2,5mm² or 14 AWG still has noticeable voltage drop. Thicker wire may give better performance. Also a fun test: preheat a battery to 40C prior to testing. It should outperform itself noticeable.
I worked with a guy that broke a tab to make an 18v battery work on his snap on 3/8. 10 years later I'm sure it's not that impressive but it was a beast at the time
Every m12 battery i've owned have eventually broken the plastic tabs that hold into the tool, I end up duct taping them to the efffing tool, I'm not super rough with them or gentle, just a big DIYer. Fortunately, my wifey bought me some new ones for Christmas, I've noticed the Hyper Tough 12v battery are much sturdier/beefier, Milwaukee should take note. Manufactured obsolesce for sure. Maybe this channel can test tabs on the different batteries?
Hi, Thank you for the fantastic test videos you’ve created-they’ve been incredibly helpful! I was wondering if you might consider doing a test on the best circular saws with dust collection. I noticed you’ve done a circular saw video in the past, but I think one specifically focused on testing and comparing the dust collection capabilities across various brands would be highly beneficial to many viewers. Thank you for considering this idea, and keep up the great work!
they should add a identification pin on the batt so when a small batt is connected it will lower the power and when a big batt is connected it will go full beans
The main difference between the custom 4Ah EVE 40PL and the Forge 8Ah is probably the bussing for the cells. The added thick copper is doing to have less resistance than the 8Ah forge pack allowing it to compete as the 8ah forge pack is dumping more of its output into its cell bussing. Still waiting on the EVE 30PL 18650s to come for these packs when that is finally available
I bought a 12.0 forge with 8.0 forge for free before christmas. Very impressed. I want the 4.0 forge like you have and I want m12 forge batteries now. I have an early m12 hatchet and it really only likes the m12 5.0HO batteries.
I see a lot of opinions on this my take on the forge 6.0 is it's not a first generation. They tried to match their new batteries 1 to 1 on physical size. The patch sells was the best way to get a 5.0 battery size and the power of a 12.0 going up in patch cell battery sizes has drawbacks, like internal heat build up and resistance. that's why they waited four tabless cells. so they did not cheat anybody out on a new platform they're all just the new forge batteries. On another note Love your videos keep it up!
I ended up buying two of the waitley 6.0 m12 type batteries for less than $25 on sale recently. You really can't beat that to run your lower draw devices such as the 3 rocket lights I own. But I've used it in my impacts and die grinders and it worked just fine.
Agreed, I love the Waitleys for my M12 inflator. I've been running them for exactly 3 years now and they've held up fine. I'll also pull them out on projects where I'm using all 3 drivers since I've only got 2 genuine Milwaukee batteries =)
i dont have any 2 piece shells available, but making them would be trivial if i had an existing pack shell and one of the cells you want to fit in it. At that point it would even be scalable for multiple rows of cells
@@schuylerpryne5 I certainly could, however i would need a shell (which i dont have since i dont own any milwaukee tools) to pull dimensions off of for the tool interface, and a battery (well this is probably LESS critical as im sure the dimensions are publicly available)
I bought some of those molex cells to re-pack a Ridgid 18v battery from like a decade + ago , but the circuit board is insane. It literally spans the entire pack and the batteries are under it.
I have Bosch 10.8v thats almost 20 years old, still working. Every lithium batter I have ever had has lasted, I still have them except an old-school Hitachi that I used to failure. A nearly new M12 6a, dead..... Milwaukee needs to step up its battery longevity game.
I don't know what they use now, but pre covid/pre forge and HO they used LG cells and those are great but their longevity is quite poor. LG cells tend to have about 30% capacity loss after 1 year of daily usage. And that Bosch you mentioned probably used nicad or nimh if treated right those cell are very hard to destroy but they also eventually die.
It makes total sense that the lipo pouch bags perform better even if they have less capacity. Lipo has a usefully voltage range between 3.8 to 4.2 while lion is more like 3.8 to 3.3 volt. The overall voltage stays higher giving more rpm to the tool ...if you feel really brave you can overcharge the lipo pouch bags to 4.3 volt ...
Really would love to see a test of m12/m18 tools max current draw, to easier decide what batteries to use best with each tool. Not sure if you've done anything like that but I haven't seen anything
Great video, but found the title misleading, alot of footage was with 1/4 in impact, but then showing stubby test, then eventually testing the 1/4in half way through the vid. And then the larger 1/2in impact at end i came for the stubby destruction via sketchy packs.
I know you're back in your wheelhouse of actual TOOL tools, but considering your flashlight work from years back, I wonder if you'd consider addressing the contrast claims of video displays? 😅 Thx for the great content!
Do it, M12 batteries are extremely simple. There is no battery management tech inside to worry about, all of that is in the tool. Spot weld the tabs on and you are done.
Loved seeing you use the m18 batteries at the end, I would love to see a 4 ah forge and also can we get a few videos explaining Makita’s line ups of tools, I got into buying some lxt and xgt and it’s like a maze..
If you're interested i have a 3S2P m12 pack. Runs a combo of jp and molicel. Ballpark 6ah at almost 100A discharge rate. 3D printed case so it's basically the same size as the 5HO.
p28A's are great, basically a modern day vtc4 without the sony/murata tax and more capacity, i use em as drone batteries and they deliver for a very reasonable price seeing those 70A eve cells that can do almost 20C discharge makes me want to pick up a couple boxes of 25
I have a jacket I got years ago. I only wore it a few times but I have heard a rc car lipo pack make for better battery's for them and not as annoying size wise. I've thought about trying it
I can imagine 21v from a fully charged pack is probably too much for most tools that don't expect to ever see even 13 volts.But I wonder how well they would do with a 4S pack? With 21700s maybe the one that fits vertically and 3 horizontally under it.
Nearly fell out of my chair when you demonstrated the 20V M12 driver - holy hell that thing is a beast!
Wonder how long for though
It’ll probably get very hot with normal use but short bursts are (as shown) pretty spicy.
As soon as he drove the screw I started laughing maniacally lol like I became a supervillain watching it
I want it, I need it!
I laughed maniacally as my next project unfolds lmao
I've never literally laughed out loud watching a tool video before, until today. Watching the "M18" driver full send that screw was like an episode of Mythbusters where they attach big rockets to small things that eventually evaporate. Wicked amusing.
I swear this channel is my guilty pleasure. I have literally never used an impact driver and probably won't for a long time to come but _by golly_ I NEED to watch every video on here
Yea I watch these even though I know the 2.0 batteries will work 99% of the time for me.
Thank you TTC, you really have made an impact!
PUN DEFINITELY INTENDED!! 😂
I see what you did there.
Ba dum tss
^ ^ started to laugh, inhaled some coffee, almost choked.
What if you only add one extra cell to make it a 14V? it's a lot less likely to fry than 20V and might bring that overclock to newer tools (:
That would be 16V...
Yes - how close can we get to the line😆
@@chrisclement3706 Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly enough to do the math. My attention was on my boiling intestines turning yesterday into a porcelain painting.
I have tried on my old brushed motor drills. If you have brushless motor drills it probably will break it adding more voltage like this.
@@chrisclement3706 It'd be 14.4v nominal.
Anything labeled as 12v is actually 10.2v nominal, just like how 20v Max is actually 18v nominal.
These are my favorite type of your videos. Love when home gamers spit out seemingly better options than the companies themselves.
Holy moly that felt like a long Christmas break, hope you enjoyed! So glad to have a video this week!
It was 1 week mate :D
@@TorqueTestChannel
I didn't know you were going to take a week off, so I thought your channel had went off the air....
@@montecorbit8280 We take the 1st week of the year off each year
We love you @torquetestchannel
seriously, the longest week of my life.
I want to see Astro Tools "Torque Saver" universal-joint impact extensions tested.
Can probably do that, what brands included? Not a whole lot make swivel extensions
@@danielevans9931proceeds to go into debt from buying a snapon extension
@@TorqueTestChannelSnap on. Mac. I think matco makes some hex knuckle looking impact extensions and if possible some off brand Amazon brands if they exist
Sunex makes 12 point extended drive line sockets that should compare to the astros.@@TorqueTestChannel
Steelman Pro Swivel 3/8-Inch Drive Impact Extension Socket
2. Motivx Tools 11pc 1/2" Drive Extra Long & Deep Swivel Impact Socket Set
3. Klutch 10-Pc. Impact Swivel Extension Socket Set
4. Sunex Tools 3657 3/8-Inch Drive Metric Universal Impact Socket Set
5. Olsa Tools Impact Swivel Socket Set@@TorqueTestChannel
what i actually would be a LOT more interested in is a test when batteries are just half full/empty. that would give a lot more reason if better/bigger batteries are worth it because batteries dont stay full for long when working and i really want to know if a half full/empty battery can still deliver beans or peas.
"Mr Magorium's wonder emporium of warranty testers" lmao
Watching this makes me wonder how the high discharge Lipo batteries for RC cars would work in different power tools considering you can get some really spicy batteries
What kind of amp output and voltage stability under load? Those are really the two drivers of performance for most tools.
now im wondering what a power tool battery powered rc car looks lke
@@awwwshucks443 Depends on brand and spec really- get some good lipos and you'll easily be able to output 200+ amps continously with fairly limited voltage droop. Obviously the harder you push them the worse the voltage sag becomes, and it depends on the cell spec and brand ( just don't use maxamps lipos as they are notorious for bullshit marketing claims )...
Search RUclips "Murdering Milwaukee Tools with sketchy batteries"
@@awwwshucks443rc car batteries can push out 1000+amps when you look at the top of the line ones and have a steady voltage
Freaking love this channel. With every single episode!!!!!! Fridays are just that much better with some TTC !!!!!!
Interesting tests! Thank you for doing them.
That 7.5Ah vs HO torque curve “crossover” could be due to the HO pack’s cells better responding to heating up, lowering their internal resistance more (and thus having less voltage sag) than the cells in the 7.5Ah pack.
right, cold battery cells are less powerful than warm cells.
mooch. Are you saying the cells can heat up (Not hot) that fast?
Also, do you think an m12 pack with 6 p28B cells would be the 3 40pl?
Been subscribed forever on my wife's RUclips since that's what we use on a daily basis on the TV but now that I have a RUclips of my own, I can comment
Hey, welcome to the comment section!
Now you have me wondering what would happen if I plug my golf cart batteries to my Ultra Torque 😆@@TorqueTestChannel@10:36
The custom packs are slick no doubt. But to be honest that 5.0 HO factory battery is pretty impressive.
Just before they released the HO packs, I made my own using the Samsung 20S cells. They are another 1/3rd spicier than the HO batteries.
Also very expensive
@@sidehoe3370
They are a little pricey, 99 right now. I normally try and get them free when they have a buy this tool and get the battery free. I have 5 of them, the last one was "free" when I bought the new M12 impact.
I wish I was good enough with electronics. I would build me some.
Having said that, the 5.0 is quite a bit different than their other batteries. Different material, better fit and better electronics.
I can't believe how powerful these custom packs are-this video is pure inspiration!
I would like to see you test the Rigid 4 amp Max Output EXP tabless battery against the rest of the Rigid line of batteries in their line of impact wrenches and drivers.
Any chance we can get a tutorial on making the CP3.0 with tabless cells? That thing rocks
Just cut out the cells and weld in yours. Need a decent spot welder as milwaukee uses thick buss bars. And a good high wattage soldering iron.
I rebuilt a DeWalt compact 4ah a couple years ago with epoch p45b cells. As I'm sure you are aware they are molicel p45b (I love that they didn't even bother changing the model name). The welder I had wasn't strong enough to redo the DeWalt tabs so I re did it with the thin stuff the welder came with. Didn't even double them or anything. First tool I used it on was the orbital and there was an noticable audible difference between it and my other 4 compacts and 5s. I have plenty of large packs so the worse it typically sees is the 4.5 inch saw or 12 inch chainsaw. The thing cooks.
I was also one of the ones who wanted to know about that m18 M12 adapter. I got one awhile ago to try to modify for my brushless Dremel (fail btw, Dremel and Milwaukee 12v positives and negatives are opposite)
I assumed what you found, that there would be super restrictive amps. Good video.
Glad to finally see the Forge 12.0AH get the benchmark!
Good stuff as always
Thanks man!
Lol that cracked out impact had me laughing out loud. 😂
Wow, that impact driver is nuts
Excellent. Added weight for cordless tools is a thing few seem to mention, especially when casually noting how they "no longer use air tools." It's easy to forget what was lost in the transition.
I wouldn't be surprised mikwaukee make a tabless cell battery for all M12 series. After this video I could see a trend in people just opening their milwaukee batteries to upgrade their own batteries with tabless cells as a cheaper repair refurbish option than costing an arm and a leg to buy a new one. If one can get so much power from an m12 compared to an 18-10 volt competitor tool, that's amazing for the M12 platform and has huge potential in my view for future tools. One thing I would liketo see though is that the pcb boards change slightly so that we have a single connector for both charging and discharging. Currently having two different 4 pin conn2ctors instead of a single 5 pin connector is quite limiting, because you can only either use a tool to discharge or charge, while it would be beneficial if we could have multibay chargers ad tools to both charge and discharge from, even be able to charge and discharge from the tool battery oksel, since electric energy is becoming more ubiquitous. I am imcreasingly experiemcing milwaukee as more inflexible in this consiladation. It may be good for designing more different monfunctional tools, but in today's climate I also use a tool battery as a charging tool device for other tools and functions in the home. Tool batteries to me have become the new energy currency than merely for tool use exclusively. Milwaukee batteries are no exception. It is strange that battery powered stations are increasingly ubiquitous, yet none of the milwaukee 2-6 multibay chargers can function as an integrated powerstation. Milwaukke has a made a two proprietary ones, but the don't provide the general usecase as a solar power battery power station with multiport PD charging or at least have one puresinewave 240 Volt port. It would be nice to have a six bay 18 and 12 V packout charger that is also a solar power station, instead of a limited usecase of a monofunctional sequential charger with only one usb port. I don't use the tools daily, so having the off day use of the batteries with a mobile solar power station would make the platform and batteries have a better value proposition. I think this is a current limiting factor in the whole platform. And maybe secondly that the platform would have 12 and 18 V pcb boards with at least a one amp active cell balancing function. I've already had 3 18V 12 Ah batteries get the three bar charging limit after 1-2 years of normal use, where upon opening the batteries I could see cell voltage drifting between cell columns. Tool.scientist showed a nice comprehensive video that confirmed that cell balancing was very small. I've seen other videos that shows the value and importance of cell balancing in battery packs. Apprently even the cell balancing in the newer forge packs hasn't significantly, which is unfortunate. It would help with general battery and pack cell health care.
Nice to see these comprehensive and insightful demo's of different cell performance and characteristics in this Torque Test channel demo. One can only wish now to improve the batteries even more in the short run. There certainly seems more room for improvement for current milwaukee batteries and battery and power management and pack health solutions for all milwaukee batteries.
That Forge 12.0 making over a thousand foot pounds is crazy, impressive you can get that much power stock
M12 6a the first battey I had fail. I've got 10.8v bosch that's passing 20 years without issues. Step up your game Milwaukee or I'll switch to Bosch 12v. I run Bosch 18v and have no issues. EGO, no issues.
haha you really overclocked that 12v impact lol :D P28A's are kind of old already, they are just slightly stronger than 25S cells, they have been updated with P28Bs which are also a bit stronger, and latest ones are P30B's which are just incredible, 3ah and 30A continuous (compared to 25S and VTC5A which are 2.5Ah and 25A cont). Crazy stuff, not to mention these new tabless cells!
Some videos on great value batteries for Milwaukee, Ryobi, etc would be awesome. Thanks for the tip on the waitley battery for lower drain tools.
I did a semi-scientific test with some M12 Gens vs. Temu clones. I used the rocket light run time for the test, arguably not a load test like what you all perform. GENs were 5.0 HO achieved 3.9 hours, 4.0 XC was 3 hours, 2.5 HO was 1.75 hours. My Temu, “6amp labeled” $15 boot-style ran for 3.5 hours splitting the difference between the 5.0 HO boss-battery and the 4.0. Not bad for $15. When I cracked it open there were 6 blue batteries labeled 18650 and 3.7volts, no mention of mAh. These had rubber bases, great soldiering with protected innards. Using only the ‘sound test’ the new stubby 2563 sounded and felt the same with the clone and 4.0, but with boss-battery 5.0 you could definitely hear the difference. So I did what any self-respecting junior scientist would do and I ordered some 12amp labeled clones.
There wasn't any other markings on them? Usually (not always) there is also a battery cell model printed on them, but it won't tell you that's what it is. Most of the "generic" ones use much lower mAh cells than advertised. I've built some custom packs for myself, and my battery charger has a capacity test with it so I make sure the cells I get are actually testing close to the specs told to me when purchasing.
@ No nothing. Just the size and volts. Very surprised that these outlasted the 4amp M12’s and came close to the 5.0HO for $15 apiece. Thanks to Work Shop Addict though, we now know the magic of the 5.0 is in its ability to achieve a higher sustained discharge volt threshold over time. This seems to be the reason that the Gen 2 Stubby impact performs so well with the 5.0 and then posts more pedestrian numbers with literally any other battery as shown here on TTC. Thanks to Milwaukee + new batteries with some likely proprietary circuit board sorcery, we now have a mini-stubby impact in M12 flavor that hits like a 18/20 or 24v monster.
@@TheCvp33 Surprised on the lack of info on the cells. Battery offerings seems to have taken a bit of a jump (for power tools at least) in the last few years. I still worry about the generic cell and pcb quality long term, but really for $15 if it gets you a couple years it's usually considered that it did the job as long as you know what to expect from them and what good use cases are. Thanks for the response!
@@mattwickert736 I wouldn’t run them in the stubby as has already been proven to be a let down……but where I just have a steady draw like a light, sander, buffer, etc. why not save the cycles on the uber-pricey 5.0’s? As for $15 batteries, no victory-laps here by me, but if they make 100 cycles and don’t burn my house down, we’re calling this one a win.
I run Molicel P28A cells for my Milwaukee m18 packs.
I love them.
Its crazy that eve 40p are similar priced to 28a. I used to shiz on chinese stuff, eve, catl are changing the game. I was all about panasonic and japanese being the best, im half, but mfrg is so different than the 90s
I caught the "The Final Boss" reference lol I smell what you're cooking lol
Go HARD or go home! Lets Gooooooo! Great video guys! Love this channel!P.S. Big shout out to Skylar for his contribution to the mayhem!👍
Love everything about this episode!!! No replacement for displacement indeed but damn that little guy puts in work too! 💪
The demonstration at 11:00 blew my mind.
Glad to have a new video, I was getting worried.
Week number idk of wishing for torque turning capability testing.
Great video, the 20V m12 is an absolute unit! One thing I’d love to see some day is you comparing ratcheting screw-/bit drivers whatever you wanna call them. I’ve got multiple of them but sometimes cant put all that much trust into them. I would like to see what torque they can handle, maybe put into a score with their clicky resistance (the torque required to spin them the other way). I’ve got a couple of them, namely the large LTT screwdriver, the Hazet ratcheting bit screwdriver (free spinning ratchet) and, I’m unsure if you can call the last one a bit driver but I’d love to see it tested as well, the leatherman ratchet driver. Maybe you know a few other ones, I’m from Europe and I guess the Hazet is the gold standard here. Love the channel, you make some great videos!
I think an air fryer or toaster oven ranking video would be pretty useful information!
Hell yes!! Cant wait to see these new forge batteries in the 1in tire gun. I wonder if the d handle 1 in impact gets a boost.
This is straight up my alley and one of your most interesting videos to date! I fell down the 18650/21700 and tool battery rabbit hole last Febuary after thinking HARBOR FREIGHT Bauer 20v batteries were expensive 😂😂 I replaced the unknown 1.5ah cells in my used old 1.5ah Bauer with 25Rs, nice little improvement and went dummy mode and turned my 3ah into a 10ah 5s4p 25r abomination, that was more for fun as I got 40 25rs on a steep sale for when my current cells degrade enough to swap. What I'd LOVE to do is cop some of those spicy tabless 21700s and wake my 12v CXT Makita drill up🤣 those batteries are ancient and somehow still work despite years of abuse. Oh, and they're knock off too which is wild
those 70A discharge 21700 cells are crazy, imagine a ebike only needing nine of those in order to power a 2500w motor at 36v😂
I dont use tools of any kind but i really love your videos :) i like how you take time to explain all the bs claims that companies make with their marketing and the real differences in their capabilities. Anyways i just find them oddly interesting and relaxing 💖
you could try reducing the resistance between cells aswell by welding more tabs ontop of eachother.
they use nickel strips to weld cells because they have a high resistance compared which makes them easier to spot-heat them to red hot compared to copper.
copper would be ideal can only be welded with stupid high currents... or laser / ultrasonic
alternatively you could solder de-solder wick ontop of the nickel strips after welding to further reduce resistance.
I wonder if you could use silver instead of copper.
I think he pointed out these custom packs do have stacked copper tabs.
Welcom to 2025 TTC. I value your dedication to tool testing. cheers, Butch.
Nice testing! I also like the 1P larger cell packs and wonder why many manufacturers don't make more of them. I am literally making 2 Makita 1P 21700 packs at the moment! I find them the best all around. I'm glad to see these types test so well today!
11:19 imagine the possibilities if you give it 36VDC?
I know you guys probably dont have them just yet, but Bosch released new Impact Drivers. I'd super curious about the results if you can manage to get them, especially the GDS 18V750C, which looks like a new beefy midtorque.
Love what you do Keep it up.
LMAO i was not expect this screw to go in this fast XD
Freaking awesome stuff! What a time to be alive in the world of tools! Personally I think Milwaukee should drop about 2 or 3 of their low line M18 that only seem to exist on their website and replace them with smaller lighter forge batteries just like the custom 4.0! Also I’ve no doubt that they could make a tabless 21700 M12 battery, as only three cells but still, that’d be awesome.
Thank you for bringing us all together. It’s really starting to make an impact .
Oh man that’s amazing. Super video man. Thx for the laugh! All seriousness great super detailed video, ty!
We love you TTC, glad you’re back
would love to see some big bats made with some of those super capacitor things to see what they could do
We missed you!! My wallet however did not lol
Bro same
The peak discharge is the amps the battery can discharge before it goes into a thermal runaway. So to make different batterys work you would have to change the board to allow a higher discharge
the m12 is fantastic for setting up welding tables using Demmeler PPC bolts
Note you are using pretty thin wires in the custom battery packs. 2,5mm² or 14 AWG still has noticeable voltage drop. Thicker wire may give better performance. Also a fun test: preheat a battery to 40C prior to testing. It should outperform itself noticeable.
For ultimate high amperage test you might wanna try copper/nickel sandwich cell welding. Nickel causes a lot of vdrop at high currents.
I love videos like this! Pushing things to the limit
I worked with a guy that broke a tab to make an 18v battery work on his snap on 3/8. 10 years later I'm sure it's not that impressive but it was a beast at the time
Every m12 battery i've owned have eventually broken the plastic tabs that hold into the tool, I end up duct taping them to the efffing tool, I'm not super rough with them or gentle, just a big DIYer. Fortunately, my wifey bought me some new ones for Christmas, I've noticed the Hyper Tough 12v battery are much sturdier/beefier, Milwaukee should take note. Manufactured obsolesce for sure. Maybe this channel can test tabs on the different batteries?
I have dozens and none have ever broken. Hmmmmm.
Well now you need to use the 60 volt DeWalt battery on the DeWalt high torque impact driver 20volt we need it
Amazing reviews always! Just when we think battery tech has reached its peak something better lighter faster stronger come along! Yay!
I put one of those M12 to M18 adapters on an electronic load tester, and it topped out at 12.7A. About half the output of an M12 CP.
Hi,
Thank you for the fantastic test videos you’ve created-they’ve been incredibly helpful!
I was wondering if you might consider doing a test on the best circular saws with dust collection. I noticed you’ve done a circular saw video in the past, but I think one specifically focused on testing and comparing the dust collection capabilities across various brands would be highly beneficial to many viewers.
Thank you for considering this idea, and keep up the great work!
they should add a identification pin on the batt so when a small batt is connected it will lower the power and when a big batt is connected it will go full beans
The main difference between the custom 4Ah EVE 40PL and the Forge 8Ah is probably the bussing for the cells. The added thick copper is doing to have less resistance than the 8Ah forge pack allowing it to compete as the 8ah forge pack is dumping more of its output into its cell bussing.
Still waiting on the EVE 30PL 18650s to come for these packs when that is finally available
Oh my, this is the video we needed.
I bought a 12.0 forge with 8.0 forge for free before christmas. Very impressed. I want the 4.0 forge like you have and I want m12 forge batteries now. I have an early m12 hatchet and it really only likes the m12 5.0HO batteries.
I see a lot of opinions on this my take on the forge 6.0 is it's not a first generation. They tried to match their new batteries 1 to 1 on physical size. The patch sells was the best way to get a 5.0 battery size and the power of a 12.0 going up in patch cell battery sizes has drawbacks, like internal heat build up and resistance. that's why they waited four tabless cells. so they did not cheat anybody out on a new platform they're all just the new forge batteries.
On another note Love your videos keep it up!
I ended up buying two of the waitley 6.0 m12 type batteries for less than $25 on sale recently. You really can't beat that to run your lower draw devices such as the 3 rocket lights I own. But I've used it in my impacts and die grinders and it worked just fine.
Agreed, I love the Waitleys for my M12 inflator. I've been running them for exactly 3 years now and they've held up fine. I'll also pull them out on projects where I'm using all 3 drivers since I've only got 2 genuine Milwaukee batteries =)
i dont have any 2 piece shells available, but making them would be trivial if i had an existing pack shell and one of the cells you want to fit in it. At that point it would even be scalable for multiple rows of cells
Can you cad a shell design? I can print ok in pla, but havent done nylon well, no enclosure. If you can send an stl for a 6 cell 21700, i can make it
@@schuylerpryne5 I certainly could, however i would need a shell (which i dont have since i dont own any milwaukee tools) to pull dimensions off of for the tool interface, and a battery (well this is probably LESS critical as im sure the dimensions are publicly available)
I would like to see video on performance variance among same model tools and same model batteries
I bought the m18 to m12 adapter as well. I used it on my m12 90* angle grinder and with the 5ah m18 was a noticeable difference vs the m12 4ah
I bought some of those molex cells to re-pack a Ridgid 18v battery from like a decade + ago , but the circuit board is insane. It literally spans the entire pack and the batteries are under it.
Omg you gotta see inside ego 56v. They are stupid.
Good vid. Milwaukee better hit up Skylar. You got a great community, TT.
I have Bosch 10.8v thats almost 20 years old, still working. Every lithium batter I have ever had has lasted, I still have them except an old-school Hitachi that I used to failure. A nearly new M12 6a, dead..... Milwaukee needs to step up its battery longevity game.
I don't know what they use now, but pre covid/pre forge and HO they used LG cells and those are great but their longevity is quite poor. LG cells tend to have about 30% capacity loss after 1 year of daily usage. And that Bosch you mentioned probably used nicad or nimh if treated right those cell are very hard to destroy but they also eventually die.
It makes total sense that the lipo pouch bags perform better even if they have less capacity. Lipo has a usefully voltage range between 3.8 to 4.2 while lion is more like 3.8 to 3.3 volt. The overall voltage stays higher giving more rpm to the tool ...if you feel really brave you can overcharge the lipo pouch bags to 4.3 volt ...
I might be up for the challenge of designing a case to fit the 21 700s in and then 3-D printing it
I can print in pla ok. I can build the pack if you can design it and send an stl.
@@schuylerpryne5 there’s two of us I just don’t have any 21 700s to use as reference
Really would love to see a test of m12/m18 tools max current draw, to easier decide what batteries to use best with each tool. Not sure if you've done anything like that but I haven't seen anything
You could get a high power Labbench Power supply and feed the tool stabilised voltage. That way you'd get the absolute maximum the tool is capable of.
Great video, but found the title misleading, alot of footage was with 1/4 in impact, but then showing stubby test, then eventually testing the 1/4in half way through the vid. And then the larger 1/2in impact at end i came for the stubby destruction via sketchy packs.
How about corded fan dusters? How about corded fan dusters as pneumatic tools?
I know you're back in your wheelhouse of actual TOOL tools, but considering your flashlight work from years back, I wonder if you'd consider addressing the contrast claims of video displays? 😅 Thx for the great content!
Great video. The tabless aka " mini beans!!" 💪
Crazy how powerful those tabless cells are
this video just gave me a great idea about what to do with one of my M12 CP 3.0 batteries that went south last year.
Replace them with Samsung 20S cells. It's the juiciest 18650 you can buy.
@procrastinator1842 nice, I was thinking about the Molicel P28A for similar runtime. I might just spring for the tried and true Samsung 25S. Thanks
Do it, M12 batteries are extremely simple. There is no battery management tech inside to worry about, all of that is in the tool. Spot weld the tabs on and you are done.
@@MGMan37 I will. Thanks
i had a 14.4 volt matco battery in a m12 impact for about 7 months, it didnt flat out fail like the m18 battery did but it would overheat pretty quick
I'm scared to death of home made packs 😆 I'll stick with my xc5 and forge 8 for now 😎 cool video though dude!
Thank you for another awesome review!
Have you ever tested a stud finder?
Love this!!!
I read tabless and saw the m12 batteries then immediately assumed we were talking about how the retention tabs break making the batteries useless.
Loved seeing you use the m18 batteries at the end, I would love to see a 4 ah forge and also can we get a few videos explaining Makita’s line ups of tools, I got into buying some lxt and xgt and it’s like a maze..
If you're interested i have a 3S2P m12 pack. Runs a combo of jp and molicel. Ballpark 6ah at almost 100A discharge rate. 3D printed case so it's basically the same size as the 5HO.
Einhell joker here: You keep leaving me breathless!
p28A's are great, basically a modern day vtc4 without the sony/murata tax and more capacity, i use em as drone batteries and they deliver for a very reasonable price
seeing those 70A eve cells that can do almost 20C discharge makes me want to pick up a couple boxes of 25
I need a 18ah for my jacket
I just got myself a jacket yesterday and was thinking, what size battery can i fit in this pocket lol.
I have a jacket I got years ago. I only wore it a few times but I have heard a rc car lipo pack make for better battery's for them and not as annoying size wise. I've thought about trying it
@@PMcDFPVjust wire it to a car battery
Should try the D handle with the forge batteries
I can imagine 21v from a fully charged pack is probably too much for most tools that don't expect to ever see even 13 volts.But I wonder how well they would do with a 4S pack? With 21700s maybe the one that fits vertically and 3 horizontally under it.
This is sooo cool. Great informative video. 👊👍