Use Code "TOMMO" to get $5 off for your first #Sakuraco box through this link: team.sakura.co/MrTommo2304 and #TokyoTreat box through this link: team.tokyotreat.com/MrTommo2304 Could Isshin defeat Aizen in the Fake Karakura Town Arc if Aizen never transcended, based on what we see in the manga? Let me know your thoughts on the potential battle in the comments - thanks everyone!
MrTommo, I didn’t read the light novels that were released after the end of the manga and I always wondered if Urahara can still use his Bankai. It is said that once a bankai is broken, it can never be properly restored and after his fight with Askin, Benihime collapses when Kisuke faints and it seems like it has broken in chapter 666 I believe
I'm wondering if perhaps Isshin has gone through the same "dangai training" that he put Ichigo through, which would explain his monstrous power. He does, after all, know about said training, and its results
Ishin is probably peak of power of nobel level captain. And Aizen, well, what a dude did before he squared vs Ishin: He activly fought whole gotei for lenghtly amount of time, that must have put strain on his body and reiryoku level He got legit hit here and there, that also reduce his strenght and reiryoku He was using Kyoka Suigetsu constantly, on that scale, we know already from novels that KS is extremly draining ability and using it for so long on such a scale should certanly put a lot of strain on body and power He haf breaf encounter with Yama, in which he had to face tank some damn powerfull hado, that must have expanded a lot of energy to protect him from being fried Then, he got hit by Ichigo, with pritty strong attack, while he got healed, that took a certanly a chunk of his energy to stop cleaving. By time he fought Ishin, he probably burned about half of his energy and strained body. Ishin is also physicly supperior, so on simmilar energy level, he would have gotten advantage. And why not using KS? Maybe his energy droping on half means his illusions would be much weaker, tho, even if that is case, i bealeave that he actualy wanted to push his body and energy to limit, to put himself in hopeless situation, so hogyoku can awaken. That is why Aizen was breathing heavy, his energy reserves were heavy depleted, and his stammina also suffered a lot, and Ishin enabled that final push.
Isshin is no doubt powerful. I don't know if he was already in Shikai but since he used Getsuga Tenshou, perhaps he was. His Bankai no doubt will be powerful but unless it can blitz Aizen, he's got no chance. Kyoka Suigetsu is just too broken. Even Yhwach got trapped and the Quincy king is a lot stronger than Isshin.
Imagine how screwed the soul society would be if they didn’t have constant help from gifted teenagers and people they’ve betrayed, forgotten and thrown to the curb.
Funny how being so high and mighty has messed them up in every instance, my favorite is Yama refusing to have his arm healed… even if they are fortunate to have these allies, they can’t be bothered to keep them 🙄
@@leogoetz3705I have no idea why he would willingly leave the Soul Society without its ultimate weapon at full power. You’d think that Yamamoto would understand that he’s the best chance they have should some major threat arise.
I wonder what would have changed. Rukia dead, Aizen the new SK and I wonder if Yhwach would be able to defeat a Soul Society under his rule. Man SO MUCH would have been different. Hinamori dead, Hitsugaya on a path on revenge and getting killed, Byakuya destroyed by guilt and responsibility, and Yachiru and Kenpachi causing a bloodbath... Man that would have been so interesting. Someone want to write a Fanfic?
They wouldn’t be that screwed if Ichibei stopped goofing around in the Royal Palace and actually did something before the Soul Society was annihilated. Ichigo wouldn’t be needed if Ichibei told the Soul Society what Aizen’s true ability was. He named everything in the Soul Society including Zanpakuto so he should know the name of the Zanpakuto ability as well. And even if he didn’t know, he absolutely knew when Aizen defected to Hueco Mundo. He could have sent all the Captains and Squad Zero into Hueco Mundo to overwhelm Aizen before the Hogyoku even awakened.
Well, it is a Shonin anime, and is targeted at teenagers so of course teenagers and their power of friendship and angsty emotion will always trump wisdom, size, strength and station. 😅
That’s what I’m hoping for too isshin can fight with the shinigami for one last before he lives life as a human and maybe finally get a bankai showcase and ryuken can help Uryu fight hashwalth and use letz stil and give up his Quincy powers
remember all captains must have a bankai to become a Captain.. But isshin left due to Ichigos mom who he knew to be a Quincy born and was protecting her by leaving the gotei13. never Even released his shikai vs aizen as welll
The crazy thing is, he hadn't used his shikigami powers in literal years. No training, no fights, anything. Then, he oneshots an incomplete arrancar, which is the only kind of warm-up he had before this fight with Aizen. Isshin is the real deal. We don't even see him use any kind of release for his zanpaktou, even though he has bankai. He might be one the strongest characters, lowkey.
@@Aurelius-bf3yx Shonen have time and time again shown that s rusty character can get in shape in a couple of days, also it was probably more like a week.
@@MaxIronsThird Ok but we have no reason to believe if he trained at all that it was some super intense Shonen protag esk training, he is a single father and a doctor he doesn't have to time to do that. I agree with you that he was probably doing some minor training to get back into shape but I doubt it was anything note worthy like say Ichigo's various training courses otherwise we would have been told about it. Also they didn't bring any food or anything so I really can't imagine it was much longer than a couple of days tops.
@@MartezAnimsyeah, without Kaien, there wasn't much holding the clan from being nuked by SS. Isshin becoming a captain was a last ditch effort that probably had no chance anyway. 😢
I think it's important to recognize something about this fight. Aizen was never the type to engage in fair combat face to face with his opponent or take risks, he was a planner. Up until his fight with Yamamoto, every one of his fights was planned in such a way that his victory was guaranteed either through overwhelming power or through Kyoka Suigetsu. As soon as he started fighting Yama (and for every one of his fights afterwards) he started engaging people recklessly, not fighting to win but fighting to take risks. He did this because he needed a 1v1 fight with an opponent who was powerful enough to push him to his limit in order to draw out the Hogyoku's power, but not powerful enough to destroy him outright. That's why his first plan was extinguishing Yama's zanpakuto, it gave him the opportunity to fight the captain commander without being obliterated immediately by its flames. Ichigo was Aizen's primary backup plan. He expected Ichigo to become powerful enough to awaken the hogyoku due to his hybrid nature, and that's why Aizen was disappointed that Ichigo fell short of his expectations. Failing that, he knew about Isshin's situation right from the beginning and knew that Isshin's powers would start returning once he was no longer connected to Masaki or White, and probably had Isshin lined up as a second backup plan. Finally, he was probably banking on Urahara being his last-ditch backup plan because that encounter would be the least predictable fight due to Urahara's insane strategizing ability, and Urahara's knowledge of the Hogyoku posed the greatest risk to Aizen's plans.
@@-Keith- Wonderwiese wasn't his first plan. He was a backup plan for a scenario in which he loses to Yamamoto. Which is exactly what happened. Once Wonderwiese got involved, the fight was over.
It's also worth remembering Isshin's power was capable of holding hollow poisoning at bay in his wife for YEARS. A constant drain without a moment's respite. His reserves have to be absolutely enormous
Another under-utilised character, him and Ryuken should have been more involved throughout the story and in particular the final arc. I would have loved Isshin being more involved when Ichigo lost his powers in the Fullbring arc.
@@revenantronin8377 yes they should, soi fon and other random characters get to fight stenrritter but ryuken and isshin who are the 2 main characters' parents get no fights, doesn't make much sense
@@revenantronin8377 ryuken is quincy who had his close ones die because of yhwach, why wouldn't he be involved in the fight? Isshin's son is getting whooped by yhwach so why wouldn't he fight either? He fought against aizen who was significantly less of a threat than yhwach, it was a mistake by kubo because of rushed deadlines
Isshin philosophy of "max power, minimum effort" differs from Ichigo's "any power, maximum effort." It shows in their martial approach. 🤷🏾 the guy hangs with a rival doctor who's a quincy, a renegade captain on the run, and a fellow Noble House captain who's a furry. I love Aizen, but he was biding his time. Great foreshadowing as to why Aizen doubted Ichigo's rematch and the power of his downfall.
I have seen people glaze Aizen to the moon. I have literally seen a comment under a Yamamoto VS Aizen video with 100+ likes which said that Base Aizen (no Hogyoku) could deflect Yamamoto's bankai. Not dodge or survive but DEFLECT a North from Yamamoto's bankai... people must be insane.
That is insane, Aizen definitely cannot deflect his bankai. But Aizen is one of the few shonen characters who have nothing to prove.... he literally beat most of the captains easily even before the hogyoku activated. He is that powerful.
I’d assumed that Isshin was so strong because of his ties to the hollow White and Misaki, essentially acting as the lynchpin keeping White restrained and Misaki herself. My thoughts were that these factors resulted in the strengthening of his spirit energy due to acting as that “lynchpin” for however many years it’s been up til that point.
Impossible to tell but I always wondered if Isshin is capable of pulling off something similar to the Final Getsuga Mugetsu of his own, has he was the one that knew of the process.
Yes. He says so when he is explaining to Ichigo that he needed to force Zangetsu to tell him how to perform The Final Getsuga Tensho. He says that Engetsu didn't want to teach it to him but I believe in the end he did. That's likely how he knows about it.
@@CoolOkay_ Well, Isshin actually says his Engetsu didn't want to tell him how. He also wouldn't know that he would need to force Zangetsu to tell him how to use it if he himself didn't already know how. That's why I am pretty positive that he knows how to use Mugetsu.
@@0eyes aizen didn't use KS on komamura or soi fon either and destroyed them through his own strength, isshin still scales highly because he was overwhelming aizen physically
I think that Isshin, being a young captain (likely some kind of prodigy) from a noble house, means that he's likely in the upper echelon of what a shinigami could possibly achieve. He's honestly probably comparable to end of series Byakuya. Especially given the fact that he is aware of the Final Getsuga technique, he's likely on a level of connection to his zanpakuto unlike other shinigami. Aizen, while being immensely strong has taken hits from Yama, Ichigo, and even with the advantage of KS, likely did have to strain himself to blitz the entire Gotei in the way that he did. Additionally, Aizen's entire spiritual makeup being completely rewritten by a (possibly parasitic) symbiote like the Hogyoku is also likely draining him as well. As for why he doesn't use shikai or Bankai? It's possible he's too exhausted or they're just not techniques that could make a difference in the battle at that time. Or of course, we could just also remember that Aizen always lies. So it's possible he's just totally toying with everyone, intentionally holding back to have some fun. Do I think Isshin could Aizen in a fair 1v1 outside of this context? Probably not. But then again, is there such a thing as a fair fight against Aizen?
Without the chance of the hogyoku awakening, Aizen wouldn't ever allow a fair 1v1 against Isshin. That wasn't his style until he got to a point where he was trying to wake up the hogyoku. And the very nature of his zanpakuto inherently makes every fight unfair when he chooses to use it. That being said, I do believe that Isshin could beat pre-hogyoku Aizen in a "no zanpakuto abilities" 1v1 brawl, but that kinda goes counter to the entire Bleach series so it's a moot point.
If you take the novels as canon, Tokinada, whose Reiatsu is equal to Yoruichi and post Royal Palace training Byakuya, was said to nowhere be on Shinigami Aizen's level. If Isshin is comparable to the noble heads post TYBW, then his chances of beating Aizen seem rather small.
I've always seen Isshin, Yoruichi and Urahara as a tier above the rest of the pre-skip Gotei, outside of Unohana and Yamamoto. Even Shunsui I have below them. His Bankai obviously shoots him well up there with/above them because it's so absurdly overpowered.
I personally have Shunsui as being equal to the exile captains - his showing against Lille Barro (although Lille > Shunsui) is quite insane. At the same time, though, Shunsui is the LEAST consistently written captain in the whole goddamn series.
@ailaxl Fair point! Taking his showings against Lille, he should not have been man-handled by Aizen like that. Then again, Kyoka Suigetsu is beyond broken, so he was basically sneak attacked when Aizen took him down.
@@danielmacdonald9287 except that Yamamoto himself said Shunsui and Ukitake combat skills were in a class all their own. So kuch so that Yamamoto used the word "transcendent". Outside of specific talents (Like Yoruichi's speed or Urahara's IQ), Shunsui should be stronger. Even with their 100 year exile and any special prep/training they did in that time, at most they should be relative to Shunsui.
a fair assessment, but shunsui is by far the strongest of the four (feats). i have it: shunsui>=urahara>=isshin>=yoruichi. same ballpark, with prep urahara jumps to n1, but still. shunsui is a beast, his bankai is an instant death. it killed the (arguably) third strongest quincy, behind yhwach and haschwalth (yes, i think lille was still above uryu, although hax in bleach make it hard to debate power levels).
@corruptangel6793 so Shunsui is overall more solid and consistent (power wise) than those two but they are better in specific aspects that could give them an edge? Yeah, I can see that. I'd put them all in the same ballpark though.
Given that he was heading straight to Aizen and told Ichigo to carry him there, Isshin really thought his version of Mugetsu would be enough to at least incapacitate Aizen. Pretty sure that Isshin was ready to use Mugetsu back then and have Ichigo watch so that he could learn it for the future (Yhwach). The only reason Isshin didn't use it is because he thought, with the Dangai world having no cleaners, teaching Ichigo the Mugetsu would be the better option overall for everybody since Ichigo's hybrid nature makes the 'lost shinigami powers' trade-off not so bad compared to Isshin. Which brings up a whole new question to the mix: was Isshin planning on dying that day? Think about it. Mugetsu's cost is losing shinigami powers and as we see with Ichigo, it took everything to do with spiritual power away from him. Zangetsu, his shinigami form, his ability to see spirits, etc. He could use Fullbring but that's reliant on his human form anyway. So the cost must be severe for Isshin given that he isn't a hybrid and thus no human form to revert to. His gigai, while I guess advanced enough to allow Isshin to bear children, shouldn't be able to protect him from the trade-off. You'd need a shinigami form to use a gigai in the first place. So was Isshin, knowing the risk of using Mugetsu against Aizen, also planning his own death to defeat his enemy?
It's implied Isshin unlocked the final gestsuga tensho resulting in an insane increase in power, similar to Ichigo. Admittedly it is never stated that unlocking the move gives you a powerup too, hence the implication. It's why Isshin reasons that teaching Ichigo the move is the one shot they have, the move by itself probably wouldn't do it, Ichigo would still need a power up. Given that Isshin was an above Captain at best prior to losing his powers, he must have learned the final gestsuga relatively recently. Obviously during/after Ichigo's final battle with Byakuga, but beyond that we don't know.
The answer is yes: Aizen was at his shinigami limit ( after defeating eight captain-class opponents by himself & surviving destruction at the hands of Yammamoto's Hadō #96. Ittō Kasō) when Isshin showed up and even realized that he couldn't push himself any further. The fact that even a psychologically weakened Ichigo could sneak up on him & actually wound him bears testament to my assertion. If the Hogyoku plot device had not kicked in, Aizen would have had to retreat or face defeat at the hands of the fresh powerful captain-class opponents. Whether being fused to the Hogyoku diminished his spiritual power reserves or not is up to debate, but we know that it requires someone with at least twice the spiritual power of a captain just to activate it for a few moments.
I think Aizen was just playing into meaning "his limit... as a shinigami" as he was clearly intentionally not using Kyoka Suigetsu, possibly "testing the limits of his abilities without a zanpakuto," so that the hogyoku would respond to his "need" to be stronger without one.
He'd definitely would have a shot. He pushed Aizen to the point the hogyoku started to trancend him, and that was without even using bankai. Aizen beat the gotei, but they were all fatigued and under Kyōka Suigetsu. Isshin was at full strength and if he wasn't under hypnosis, he'd have a chance imo
@@0eyes He pushed Aizen to his shinigami limits and even had the power to damage his cocoon form. That means he could have done that same damage to his base form, which would have been fatal
This is purely speculative, but I have a theory that Aizen needs time to activate his shikai. We never saw the if his illusion can suddenly changes his opponents' view. I think his ability, like himself, takes a long time preparing, plotting, rendering a new fake world. During that time, he doesn't have enough CPU to conduct other heavy tasks like fighting. So he let the hollows fight first, so that he can rendering his illusion. After that part is complete, he starts to get into fight himself, but he can't risk activate his shikai again in the midst of fighting.
Aizen's Shikai is very flexible. He had it on auto for half the Soul Society arc to project his image on an irrelevant corpse. He also turns it on and off willy nilly when he seals it in front of Unohana and turns it back on to hypnotize Komamura. In fact, he introduced himself to Barragan and immediately showed him his Zanpakuto to massacre his army as they talked.
@@olo703 @olo703 I didn't mean he'll freeze for the activation, it's just consuming. after it's done rendering, it's not that consuming anymore. For example, he has his corpse ready to go and he can bring it out since he never log out if this soul society fake death instance. It's like creating games or anime, it takes months to draw one episode, but after it's done, you can replay it as much as you want without issues. His encounter to barrigan was one of the instance I was thinking of. He activates his shikai and stand there talking, stalling, generating illusion, while gin and tousen go on fighting
My assumption is that Aizen's form might have been a little unstable before his transformation actually kicked off in earnest. I'm guessing that the events of that day and the Hogyoku getting him ready to change had burned him out a bit, not to mention that Isshin was completely unhindered and at full strength.
Isshin is definitely powerful, but probably not more than Shunsui in terms of Reiatsu, unless he fused with White and Masaki's reiatsus which would make him close to Ichigo and Reio. As for Aizen reaching his limit as a shinigami it is probably linked to him fusing with the Hogyouku which probably pushed his shinigami body to its limits. If he wasn't using Kyoukasuigetsu it's also probably because of that, or maybe he knew it was no use since he was about to enter his cocoon mode and he wanted Isshin to witness his powerlessness in despair. I also think he wanted to chat with him about Ichigo being Reio material thanks to him. In short, Aizen was just passing time with Isshin until he could evolve and show them true despair. So in my opinion, no, he could not have defeated him before the Hogyouku. First because if he was using his shikai, fight would be over quick. Second, even if Isshin has a powerful Bankai, so does Aizen and Isshin's bankai would probably be useless against Kyoukasuigetsu. Moreover, Aizen had already fused with Hogyouku so couldn't be harmed effectively (unless by Zanka no Tachi). Even if Aizen was weakened by his fusion, he could not get hurt for real and I suspect he would have just evolved faster if Isshin's Bankai had managed to touch him, just like when he got hit by his Getsuga. It only seemed to have sped up the process.
I've seen it theorized that Isshin's little flick is an unspoken Hado 1 Sho, and it does seem to make sense. Byakuya performs Sho on Hanataro in his battle against Zommari, and it's just a little flick of his finger as well. I think you missed a great opportunity for a segue into the ad like "How could Isshin beat Aizen? If he prepped for the battle with some snacks from Tokyo Treat and Sakuraco, he might've been able to. And speaking of them..."
It would still be as infinitely effortless. Byakuya used it to a break a little bit of ice without damaging Rukia. This is the same Byakuya that used Hado#4 to punch a hole through Bankai Ichigo's shoulder. Basically it might as well have been a flick. Isshin didn't even speak the abbreviated command, supposing it was a Hado. It's like when Urahara stunned Rukia in the first arc. You know Urahara would flick her head off if he wanted at that point.
Given that Aizen admits that Yamamoto was stronger than him, Isshin was probably the second strongest captain during the time from Turn back the pendulum to current.
Isshin flicked Aizen's ass through the building. Don't forget how cocky Aizen is, he would not allow himself to even look vulnerable never mind getting tossed by a finger.
Aizen having reached the limit as a Shinigami is kind of the whole reason for him seeking out to become part Hollow - so it might just be he is not actually answering Isshin's question. Isshin meant "is this all you can do in this fight?" when asking if Aizen reached his limit but Aizen might just have given back a general response on how he has no room left to grow as a Shinigami. In the fight with white Aizen already analyzed Isshin's power and since becoming a father Isshin had very little opportunity to get stronger. It might simply be that Aizen does not see him as a threat and instead pumps more of his energy towards activating the Hougyoku, so much so he can't even use Shikai or many other skills anymore. It would mean he underestimated Isshin as seen in the "I understood that strike" line but he barely did not get punished for his miscalculation.
As a noble I would put isshin near Shunsui/Unohana lvl maybe less since he’s loss a shinigami powers for years and Shunsui been active for a while… Given that Koga suigetsu most likely uses up a lot of reirykou seeing how Tokinada couldn’t use it for long since he’s weaker than Aizen in CFYOW… Azien would’ve been tired from using it to fight the Gotei 13 “at his limits as a shinigami” while face off a fresh Ishin, Urahara, and yourichi. If both combatants are fresh, Azien stomps
I still don't understand why kisuke and Isshin didn't use bankai, I don't think kisukes bankai would be disadvantageous to allies and could've even helped mess up the reconstruction with the hogyoku based on how we've seen his bankai used
@@screwydrewy3214That won't work. Kisuke's power has limits; he couldn't even change his body to handle poison. When the toxicity of the Gift Ball intensified, he was completely reliant on Nelliel for help. There's no way he could override the Hogoku's power, which can completely break down a soul and make it evolve. Plus, Kisuke knew that any extra power would only push Aizen further.
Good vid! I think many people often under-estimate how much of an impact it has that AIzen has been fighting all the battles that he has up to this point. The concept of characters exhausting their reiryoku is a thing in Bleach, it only make sense that Aizen gets exhausted too. That's what Isshin mean by "Have you reached your limit?" He means the limit of his stamina, that he has depleted all of his reiryoku. I think Aizen's sudden drop in performance can still make sense though, if depleting your reiryoku is less like gradual, physical exhaustion, and more like running out of gas. You CAN still go at 70 miles an hour rigjt up until the engine starts to cough.
Supposedly some new information about Reio was revealed at Bleach EX or XE, I don't remember 🤣, but it seems to be contradicting the novel's interpretation of his dismemberment, are you gonna do a video on it? I gotta hear your thoughts my boi😤
So many Bleach fans slob Aizen's knob too much. There's a bunch of Shinigami who were stronger than him without the McGuffinyoku. The entire Zero Division. Yamamoto. Kenpachi (unleashed anyway). Unohana. And several who had the strength to kill him in one blow if they managed to connect - Kyoraku's bankai, Gin, potentially Urahara.
Sure, but he does have kyoka suigetsu. And he did use the hogyoku. You could say the same thing about most shinigami. Imagine Aizen without using zanpakuto vs any other shinigami not using theirs, Yoruichi would probably destroy him and that would be about it.
My idea is that the hogyoku was taking a toll on aizens stamina and power during its process of evolving him. Think like how humans burn energy to create energy (digesting of food) I would expect that the same is true for the hogyoku. It expends aizens reserves during this process of evolution hence why he reaches his limit quick against ishinn
Also got to mention though shortly after the fight he trains Ichigo to use the final getusga which means it's most likely a family secret move passed on the generations. If he had used that against Aizen he def would have won.
What if, aizen's apparent slow down was intentional. What if the hogyoku requires a soul to be in a state of distress for it to truly activate? Kind of like a high-speed forced evolution.
I think isshin is much much stronger than we all think, yes he was the leader of one of the nobel houses, but also he is a prodigy and a freak a monster in its own right. I think he isn't just strong but he is a smart fighter, kinda like goku, a lazy genius with a quirky weird improvise style. To the point where I do believe isshin could be captain commander or even squad 0 but he is too lazy to try. I think isshin was fighting more on a " ultra instinct like" of mode that prevented Aizen power to work.
Hey tommo dude you rock I’m sorry I haven’t commented as much lately but I love all your videos, bleach is my favorite manga/anime, can we maybe collab? I would like to ask you some questions about bleach,
@MrTommo2304 just curious idk if Kubo, ever mentioned it but chapter 1 / episode 1 when Ichigo breaks rukia kido, was it his hidden soul reaper or quiency/hollow breaking it, or was his Reiatsu at that moment so much higher then hers
Love this, never considered this part of the fight. Would like to see you do a what if on how it would've gone if the Quincies had returned prior to the Hueco Mundo arc when Aizen had his army. I'll keep asking forever 😂
I like to think that as Aizen fought Isshin he was in the preparatory stages of his transformation. So as the hyogoku began absorbing reshi in preperation it drained on his stamina greatly.
Yes he could have won. Imo, Aizen prior to the hogkyoku is not nearly as PHYSICALLY powerful as ppl think he is. He is clearly a kido master, but outside of that we havent seen him do anything particularly impressive in a fight unlesss KS was invovled. And i think its ability is a perfect compliment to someone who doesny actually possess some of the overwhelming power weve seem exhibited by other shinigami. Its a ability that benefits more from his mental capabilities rather than his physical power. The only loophole is that Aizen claims to have used KS on all the captains and vice captains during his captain ceremony, yet Isshin seems to not be affected by it despite the fact he should have veen a captain at the time.
I mean, even if we assume everything Aizen did against the captains was just KS, he was still able to stop Ichigo's sword (while he was in Bankai) with a finger. And he survived Yamamoto's hado 96 without taking too much damage Even if you argue both were hurt/tired (which is true) that's still a very impressive feat of raw power. Making Grimmjow drop to his knees with his reiatsu alone is also impressive, I don't remember seeing anything like that since Yamamoto and Nanao
Aizen was never being pressured by Isshin. That much is clear by how he'd handled the previous battles. Even Shunsui was nothing to him, and he just tanked a 90s Kido from Yamamoto himself from point blank with little damage. I think it's clear he was taking his time here and not putting in any real effort. Look at Aizen's expressions. He never so much as bats an eye. He was just waiting for the Hogyoku to finally start activating. If he wanted to, he could have perception blitzed Isshin the same way he did Ichigo, Shunsui, and Soi-Fon. We know this, especially because Isshin was unable to suppress White during Ichigo's battle with Byakuya. As he himself says, his spiritual pressure was no longer strong enough to seal Ichigo's hollow powers.
i think Aizen's brief exchange with Yama is very important here, Yama used a kido spell that was meant to kill what he considered to be at least twice as strong as an average captain, not only that but the attack was strong enough to cleanly erase one of Yama's arms, and Aizen came out pretty much unscathed, the only way I can see that happening is if he protected himself with huge amounts of reiatsu meaning he had to have used a lot of it by the time Isshin came around, we also know that reiatsu is very important when it comes to activating shikai and bankai so that might be why he stopped using kyoka suigetsu
Interesting analysis. It makes sense, but curious that neither fighters blade made any difference, admittedly because we known so little about Ishins. But in a 1v1 fight it does make me wonder, could the likes of Kenpachi or his predissesor have been a match? They have arguably the same if not more physical skill as any other character we've seen.
I think Isshin was legitimately besting him. Sure Aizen was tired but the three, Yorichi, Keyske (no idea how to spell his name) and Isshin are held up on a pedestal as a whole other tier of power to the other Captains. Based on how we see them fighting. I'd bet that each of them is High Captain level and that Isshin was the strongest and besides Aizen the closest to matching the old man in strength.
Considering that Aizen seems to be unable to wait to throw away his zanpakuto, I wouldn't be surprised if he rejected his own Bankai, and that's why he didn't/couldn't use it. To have a true Bankai, you have to acknowledge that the sword is you. Aizen seems to reject that, he wants to be more than a shinigami, more than his Zanpakuto. I would bet he was so disappointed by his own Bankai the first time he activated it, so disappointed by his own limits, that it's what triggered him to seek out all this extra power. I also have a theory that activating his Bankai undoes the hypnosis of Kyoka Suigetsu. Bankai seem to have a tendency to either double down on or inverse the powers of the shikai for users. Since Aizen, despite his subterfuge to gain power, in his heart of hearts, seems to want true power, and seems to speak honestly about his own power and the power he seeks. I wouldn't be surprised if his Bankai eliminated all illusions as a part of its power. And that would go against his plans. Though, it also begs the question why he wouldn't use it once his powers fully emerged with the hyogyoku and he no longer needed deception. So maybe it was just a Bankai of more lies, which is why he rejected his blade entirely once he got the true power of the hyogyoku. Throwing away the zanpakuto is equivalent to throwing yourself away, so this could also be why the hyogyoku allowed Aizen to be sealed after being hit with mugetsu. There really is so much that can be analyzed from Aizen and what happens with him, it's pretty insane, honestly
Fresh Isan vs Fresh Issin, I give it to Isan Worn Isan vs Fresh Issin, I would say its a draw Worn Isan using hokuoku and focusing on evolving vs Fresh Issin, Issin wins. Think it all come down to the fact that Isan's hands where tied. He was constantly fighting back to back again several powerful indeviduals, while Isan was putting his focus into the hokuoku first and foremost, as evolution is his current goal. So Ishin turning up fresh from nowhere after that must've put Isan on the back foot. I like to imagin the reason Isan couldnt go full power, or use his shiki or banki is due to him prioritising fusing with the hokuoku and that action, for whatever reason is why he couldnt use his full power array. Either that or Isan believes his hyper so much and drank all thqt cool aid gave himself the person goal/handicap to try and defeat everyone there without going to shiki.
Theres some language stuff to consider with Gin's statement that Aizens power moves the heavens and earth. Isshin's zabpakuto ability is Getsuga Tenshou, which is something along the lines if 'Moons fang pierces heaven'. I suspect that these things are deliberately related to eachother.
That’s incorrect it’s stated that Isshin’s zanpakuto is a fire based zanpakuto. The move is itself is special Kubo himself said that other than the name of the move there are no similarities to both father and son’s sword
@@shoryusenkei3136 I didn't say the names were the same, I said the linguistic implications were the same. They have the same name, which means they both tie into the wordplay of comparing Aizen's power to heaven, and then having a character with a move that states it can pierce heaven. The fact that the names are the same is literally the only point that matters for that.
This is another reason why I really wish Yamamoto's sacrificial final attack had been depicted as seriously injuring Aizen, Isshin's performance against him as a non-Zero Squad, non-Senior Captain would have made way more sense were that the case.
Also: at the beginning of the video, you show the part where Aizen says "what made you think I wasn't using Kyoka Suigetsu?". That means it's on, and nowhere does it say he deactivated it. My take is that Isshin whacked most of the Gotei 13 in order to satisfy his ego by showing them how powerless they were. By the time Isshin appeared, he simply used Kyoka Suigetsu to play with Isshin until the Hogyoku awakened.
It's always been part of my belief that Isshin new and had practiced against Aizens zanpakuto in the same way that Aizen had practiced against his and that is why they knew that using them would put more of a tax on their body then just using raw power.
You're correct about Isshin only being a match for Aizen because he's fresh and Aizen's tired out. Katie Ledecky could easily outswim every other opponent in the pool. Woman or man. Maybe even twice over. But if all her opponents start jumping in one after another, and she has to beat all of them in turn...eventually, someone's going to dive in fresh while she's nearing exhaustion. Doesn't matter how much faster she is than the others, or how apparently-casually she took them apart. She's got a limit, and eventually, she'll flag. Aizen's the same way.
Tybw arc in Manga when Isshin was fighting White he was about to use his Bankai but aizen came from his back and cut him Then aizen tokd that " this man bankai gives a huge strain on his body and now with that cut he cant use his bankai " Isshin said " for that cut my reatsu became very unstable so i wont able to use my Bankai"
Theres also the possibility of the hogyuoku heavily consuming Aizen reiatsu to push the evolution on him, therefore making him slower and tired until the evolution finally started
I imagine that Isshin's reiatsu being used to hold back white for, what, 20 years, probably was like constant training, so when he got it back he was even stronger. And maybe it made white stronger inside too, which would explain why Ichigo is so massively powerful from the get go, even compared to other captains
I also want to consider the possibility that age also just plain makes soul reapers stronger naturally. So aging 20 years as a human would be equivalent to aging 200+ years as a shinigami, if not more, considering how slowly shinigami age, looking at how Yamamoto was already pretty old in the TYBW flashback and was still going strong until he died 1000 years later, not to mention the other characters from that time that barely seemed to age at all over those 1000 years.
Mr.Tommo, after Kubo said that Shikai is the Soul Reapers power and bankai is the zanpakto, wouldn't it make sense for Aizen to intentionally neglect his bankai as it refuses to rely on anyone's and anythings power then his own?
It probably doesn’t matter much but I wander which one of them is older and or maybe Isshin is older maybe his battle experience played in his favor maybe to being able to push Aizen farther then the other captain could Also maybe because Isshin knew Urahara ( not sure how possible this would be but ) maybe Urahara and Isshin found some way to overcome Aizen’s sword abilitie Because I’m not sure when but Aizen did say that he did admire Urahara’s intellect so I could see Urahara doing all he could to find a way to increase his odds of winning and or weakening him so he could seal Aizen away I would think Urahara would do all he could to learn all he could about Aizen and his swords abilities that he could to help I do wander what Urahara’s back up plan was if Ichigo failed and his seal spell wasn’t able to take effect like how many plans did Urahara have both in the works and up his sleeve to defeat Aizen I wander
I feel like in that context, with a tired Aizen, he could definitely win. I believe when Isshin refers to Aizen’s limit, he means stamina wise, more than power wise. We don’t know how much it takes, but Aizen had been using Kyoka suigetsu for quite a while constantly before he even fought the captains. He also fought yamamoto and took an itto kaso to the face
Plz answer me this. I’ve watched your vids for YEARS & you are the GOAT! How did Byakuya get his Bankai back after the SS arc & Ichigo breaking his Zanpakto in Bankai after their last ditch clash??? In TYBW we were told once a bankai is broken it can’t be repaired…!!! How????
Maybe because Isshin spent so many years in that gigai that Kiskue made, his spiritual power kept doubling back on itself, constantly building up and making him stronger until this fight came around, when he finally let loose.
Not at all, Kubo even explained that the reason isshin didn’t use fire with his zanpakuto against Aizen is that he recovered his powers not long ago and so he couldn’t use it at its best
We know that one of the few weaknesses to Aizen's zanpacto is he needs you to view it's release to put you under it's spell. We know that Isshin wasn't a captain during the turn back the pendulum arc, and by the time we do see him as a captain Aizen is also a captain, if Aizen was made captain first and shown most of the gotei captains and lieutenants his release before Isshin steps in as captain, Isshin may have slipped by without being put under it's spell before he ends up in self imposed exile. In which case Aizen may not have felt he had a chance to activate it between a relentless onslaught and knowing that Urahara likely forewarned him about that weakness. And without knowing what if anything his bankai can do there is no way to know if it could have helped, we know that they can often be rather situational.
I have questions. Why everyone assumes Aizen is telling the truth most of the time? Was he fighting? No. He was playing. He cut all if them but didnt kill anyone. He clearly could. He didnt. Why? Why is Aizen never serious? Whats his actual goal? Why Aizen let Isshin be pushed around like that? I think Aizen is working on something and until hell arc its a mistery only Kubo knows...
I am gonna do a bit of a theorycraft here and say Kyoga Suigetsu has two weaknesses: 1). Being touched ( "Yamero Gin-kun!") 2). Fire-type zanpaktou. Why do I think 2? Because Aizen didn't even want to try to fuck with Ryujin Jakka in shikai state (and may have been legitimately trapped by its ability during the fake Karakura town arc). It'd neatly explain things in that regard as Genryusai only says he knows he's dealing with the real Aizen after it's sealed and after Aizen stabs him, until that point it didn't seem like the Old Man had any issues keeping an eye on where Aizen was for most of the fighting. I suspect Kyoka Suigetsu is water-type due to this reason as well as it ties into his captain exam as well (maybe he didn't fake most of it merely mislead with what the water manipulation did in reality). We know Genryusai would've probably pushed even Chrysalis Aizen hard in Bankai so maybe Isshin isn't that far removed from that power level and I somewhat suspect Isshin might also be relative to Aizen in spirit pressure as well (Genryusai is likely stronger here vs Shinigami Aizen) as then the fire + relatively equal spirit pressure could null out Kyoga Suigetsu which might be why Aizen got pushed. And I don't think Aizen was tired before Isshin started manhandling him, there's a decent chance he has few counters to fire-type zanpaktou as they're also rarer types than most others. Can't even imagine what a lightning type could've done to Aizen if I am right on his zanpaktou being water-type.
I always assumed that 1) Gin learned about Aizen's 'weakness' in that moment, when Yama points it out to him, and 2) the issue with Ryujin Jakka is that Yama can just nuke everything around him and it doesn't matter if Aizen's hiding, he's dead. Similar to how Bambi dealt with Shinji. If you can't trust your senses, then don't bother using them and hit everywhere they could be. All he needs is confirmation that Aizen is actually there, something he gets with Ichigo being present.
@@PhantomNull13 I don't think Aizen knows Ryujin Jakka's full abilities as the only person who probably saw them in full and was still alive when he was born, much less became a captain, was Unohana (Yhwach doesn't count as he wasn't sentient back then) . Like Yama is so busted he doesn't even need to do anything in Bankai besides sit there with his fire armor on and see how long until his opponent bursts into flames by being on the same plane of existence as Genryusai as that's the actual weakness of Ryujin Jakka, it's a nuke once released irrespective of being used or not (probably why Yhwach didn't even try using it). From a logical standpoint it'd be more reasonable to consider Aizen doesn't know just how fucked he'd be vs Genryusai but knows he's a fire type so doesn't wanna even deal with that. That and water manipulation, on a molecular level, could theoretically fuck with all 5 senses at once and with fine enough control of said molecules Aizen could well induce whatever inputs he'd want into the sensory organs of everyone around him (it'd also be an ultimate fuck you from him to be like "yeah, you don't even need to see my shikai for you to be fucked by it" as it'd tie into how Yhwach, who's never seen Kyoga Suigetsu's release, got fucked by its effect. Much simpler to think Aizen absorbed its abilities when he went post-mothman rather than him "becoming the blade").
@@RomanianReaver Aizen knows Yhwach's name, recognizes him immediately, and has knowledge of his plans. There's no way he hasn't bare minimum read descriptions of the battle against the quincies, and if he knows about his Bankai, he could easily assume that whatever Shikai's max output is, it would still be far more than he could reasonably take while still being an ordinary shinigami. Particularly because it's not like it's remotely a secret that Yama is far and away the strongest shinigami. Even if he's only released his zanpaktou a few times while Aizen has been around, it's not like Yama usually keeps the flames confined to the blade and him creating massive pillars of fire was somehow surprising. Not saying its impossible, just that I personally feel like he has enough information that he could assume it's dangerous without needing to specifically be weak to it.
@@PhantomNull13 First mistake: Thinking Aizen knows Yhwach from battles and reports of the past. Shinigami believe the Quincies are all dead (Aizen knows they're not due to Masaki popping up while he's observing White's handiwork, there's no point prior to that stage in the story where we have any reason to believe he's aware they're still around). Additionally: Mayuri documented everything about the Quincies (anatomically and likely culturally too) and Aizen sought power through knowledge wherever he could gain it so he likely read the quincy myth of the bound king (Yhwach) and likely deduced who was Yhwach when someone busted down the door of his prison cell when Aizen knew full well his warden was Genryusai so if anyone sans the Zero division could've done it it would've been the bound quincy king (and kinda would've helped the guessing that Yhwach has quincy attire and accessories). You pick the most half-assed explanation and go complicate things when the lore of the series already has connection points that make logical sense. That and Aizen still underestimated Yhwach in their final battle, if he was fully aware of the Allmighty's power, which was around during the first Quincy/Shinigami war too, he wouldn't have ended up in that position.
@@RomanianReaver "Aizen sought power through knowledge whenever he could." And somehow that means he wouldn't know how powerful Ryujin Jakka is, when it's renowned as the most powerful zanpaktou of all. That Yamamoto is the most powerful shinigami in the SS. That he wouldn't see the head captain who founded the court gaurd squads, led them for 1000 years, and think to use some of his time to research just how powerful he is before openly betraying him. Again, these aren't some secrets that are closely guarded like the Oken or the original sin. Yamamoto should be entirely a known quantity outside of POSSIBLY his bankai. And even then, since Shunsui recognized it even though he'd never seen it, we can assume he at least knew the basics of what it does. The Almighty wasn't around in the first war. Per TYBW cour 2, Ichibei sealed the Almighty before Yhwach invaded. And you're assuming that, upon seeing a quincy in Everything But the Rain, Aizen wouldn't look into it? The information might be harder to get, but he had access to central 46's records at the end of the Soul society arc, so it's not too much of a stretch that he would've been able to get more heavily restricted information. Hell, he knew about the Original Sin despite not having access to the royal palace. If he can figure out what the Soul King is, I genuinely see no reason why he could know that, yet couldn't find classified records of the event that led to the founding of the sereitei. And your theory requires you to take Aizen at his word, that his zanpaktou is water type when it's entirely possible that he pulled that description out of his ass to explain why he can make illusions without revealing he's controlling everyone's senses. Aizen never even mentioned it in the series. We only have that from Isane when he revealed he purposefully showed it off to control the entire power structure of the soul society. It's literally mentioned once, and that once was immediately undercut by Unohana pointing out that it's just a prerequisite for sensory control. And yet as I mentioned, it still makes him entirely vulnerable to a massive AoE attack like Ryujin Jakka is capable of releasing. You can make Yamamoto think he's literally dead by controlling all of his senses, but if he generates a nuke and you're in the blast radius, you're dead, plain and simple. And Yamamoto literally does that the second he ascertains that Aizen is present and in his grasp. He grabs his arm and tells Ichigo to leave because all of the captains are about to become collateral damage. It wasn't because he was weak to fire. It was because he recognizes that if Yama is prepared to accept losses, he's going to lose. Yamamoto has the power to kill him, and the range to actually do it even while under KS. AoE attacks are an entirely logical weakness to Kyoka Suigetsu just as much as flames would be to a water type zanpaktou. And there is literally zero reason why Aizen wouldn't realize that.
I figured Isshin was pressuring Aizen so much and tiring him out, wearing down his reaitsu Aizen didn't have enough time and energy to use Bankai. It'd be odd if Isshin wasn't under the influence of Kyoka Suigetsu but he also uses Kisuke old cloak to mask his presence against Isshin in the Everything But The Rain flashback so maybe he wasn't
Isshin could have used his Final Getsuga Tensho and probably won that however would have removed him from the fight and if Aizen wasn't completely overwhelmed by it and survived the Hokyoku would have still begun his ascension saving his life
No, let's not forget Aizen used neither his shikai nor his Bankai. He was playing with them to stimulate his evolution. He actually said that, evolution requires fear of death or something. He even let Gin try to kill him. And the think is, he even let Ichigo live for the same purpose. He just lost because Urahara sealed him between evolutions. Also, even Ishin and Urahara didn't use their bankais because probably realize it would be useless since he was regenerating.
Aizen constantly uses his shikai. That's how he tricked all the captains into attacking Hinamori thinking it was him. He's NEVER used his bankai, if he even has one.
@@glizzynator5258 True, but we saw Ishin's release in TBTP and it cannot be compared to Kyouka Suigetsu. So I think they were fighting in equal terms. Ishin used a Getsuga Tensho, but Aizen didn't use any of Kyouka Suigetsu skill as far as we know in that fight. That's why I believe he was just trying to awaken the Hyogoku in his body to further become one with his blade. For that he needed strong opponents.
The only way Isshin would've had a chance is if Aizen was exhausted like he was and then used bankai. He was exhausted in the canon which is why he used the Hogyoku transformations. But without them he would've had just his bankai. But given how powerful Aizen's shikai was, his bankai is surely something insane. But if Isshin beats that, then he would take down Aizen especially if Urahara and Yoruchi would arrive just after that.
Ishin knew of the Final Getsuga Tensho before they ever went into the Dongai. Its quite possible Ishin could have obliterated Aizen if he had used it. He knew of it, so he must have seen it or was somehow aware he could use it and Ichigo as well.
9:45 Kyoka Suigetsu, I believe, was stated to use a lot of reiatsu which we dont know how long hes been using it but we will atleast say since he Betrayed Harribel coupled with the fact that he just took down the entire Gotei and sustained injuries in the process . Using here it would probably fail after sometime and he needs to conserve as much strength as possible till the hogyoku awakens.
I always assumed that Aizen in his base soul reaper form was an higher tier captain but not quite top tier, i definitely believe that he was weaker than the likes of Shinsui or Jushiro without his Kyoka Suigetsu. The main reason he stomped the whole gotei was the fact that they were under its influence. Isshin appears to be a higher tier captain like Shunsui and Jushiro and it does in fact appear that he is not under the influence of Kyoka Suigetsu so it makes sense that he would be really able to defeat Aizen. As to why Aizen does not use his shikai, he either wanted to test his soul reaper limits or he acknowledged that Isshin knows his shikai at this point and is probably able to counter it in some way.
I’m presuming that maybe as the hogyoku was prepping it took a toll on aizen slowing him down, Ishin probably also had an unconventional fighting style compared to the shinigami aizen was used to
I think many higher ranked shinigami are a bigger threat to (shinigami) Aizen than it would seem but his zanpakuto is so broken that this only applies if he's lacking it.
Also, we know from Mashiro's fight that going up against stronger opponents than usual can exhaust you, even if you are rather handily beating opponents up until then. So even though he handily fought off most of the gotei including Yamamoto, it surely taxed his resources at least somewhat
I'd make the argument a good portion of Ichigo's power came from Isshin, given what we see at the end of the series when he gets his true Zangetsu White was obviously incredibly powerful, yet Isshin would've won imo if he wasn't injured right off the bat, and White merged with Isshin's shinigami powers while they were both bound to Masaki and then to Ichigo by proxy (in Isshin's case) It's pretty obvious that Ichigo's shinigami and hollow powers are the majority of his power given both the size of his swords compared to each other once they're reforged, and the fact that he chooses White (Zangetsu) over his Quincy powers to challenge Yhwach, even though technically Yhwach should be able to steal his shinigami/hollow powers and not just his Quincy powers (Sankt Altar can steal shinigami powers as shown in Yhwach's fight with Ichibe, and the fact the Bankai stealing medallions use the same method as Sankt Altar)
Also its just speculation on my part but I've seen people say that Yhwach can't steal Ichigo's shinigami powers because of his hollow powers, although I'd completely disagree considering Soul King candidates must have at least some hollow in them, and the original Soul King is stated to be a hybrid of Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy (and by extension human)
I think a key thought experiment would be to hypothetically compare Byakuya to Isshin. They are both high ranking members of the noble families. If they are deemed comparable, then the question of Byakuya vs Aizen should be asked. That in itself would grant a degree of like for like comparison.
I more so subscribe to the 3 tiers of Captians. 1. Entry: Vice Captians with Bankai to newer captians need Bankai to get stuff done 2. Mid: balanced skill set probably still needs Bankai to fight previous level but will own them. 3. Masters: they have mastered their primary skill sets, and they fight tier 1 threats without Bankai. Looking at the soul society arc Gotei 13 your senior captians are masters. Byakuya, Gin and you could argue Kenpatchi are Mid captians. Everyone else but Aizen is at various levels of Entry, they don't have the raw power or diversified skill set yet.
@abbamalami9171 Post Royal Guard Byakuya, and unleashed Kenpatchi are comparable to Kyoraku... they basically slide in to where Unahana, and Utakaki in the general power structure of the Soul Society during the Soul Society Arc. I would argue Toshiro (non-adult form) equates to where Byakuya or Gin was during that particular arc. I think Aizen either was in the same ball park as the Senior captians during Soul Society Arc or was on the cusp of it ahead of the tier I would place the other two in.
I do think if we limit what we know about both characters at this moment in time when the manga chapter was released, Isshin "could" win. I am sure I am way off as we know so much more from lite novels and info that has been clarified over time though. But from what little of both these characters was known at the time and what we could deduce from how the zanpakuto work, I do think there is enough to reason that the fight was fairly equal in which case only some circumstances would decide the fight. To my knowledge even now we don't know if Aizen could affect Isshin with his shikai. Even if he could he either chooses not to, or isn't able to and he had already stopped using it completely at this point all the way until he is sealed. So for this conversation, it plays no part. Looking at how some of the sword releases work that we see at this point, some characters shikai's seems not to effect the physical prowess at all. I would put characters like Shinji, Momo, Aizen and Hachi among others in this statement. When it comes down to it every single attack Aizen has landed against any Shinigami has done almost nothing in terms of taking out the fight. Almost all of which were hits landed via his shikai, which implies that the target was unable to defend themselves. I personally don't think Aizen is even in the top 10 of shinigami in terms of physical strength and durability at this time. Which could give an advantage to some because of that. Ichigo is one of the few that only deal damage in a very direct way and has the reiatsu to overwhelm him. The few hits we see Aizen actually take are from attacks. Most deaths we do see in the series are a result of some form of a physical hit, being cut in half or simply striking a vital spot. Mind ya I do think the fight plays out as it should. I do think Isshin does have a strong chance to win as well as other characters that have abilities that Aizen's shikai simply would not work as well on. Specifically character like Yama as his shikai and bankai affects would still have an impact even under Aizen's shikai ability. Those global type attacks that have a range and not need a specific target might still inflict damage. I do also think seeing how Aizen's transformation takes place after he took the hits from Isshin and the others during that fight, may have been on purpose to progress the transformation. Every instance we say him evolve it was after some form of serious damage. In any case, this is just fun to think about and everyone is going to see it a little different. I think just about everyone is happy with how this battle plays out as we know it.
Could Isshin be more powerfull then other captains due to him having learned or attempted to learn his own Final Getsuga? He vaguely says that their Zanpakuto don't want to teach them the technique not that his didn't. Perhaps the process can make a shinigami more powerfull simply by them learning this technique and becoming closer to their Zanpakuto and this is what alowed Isshin to push Aizen as much as he did.
I always felt that Isshin was so strong here because he hadn’t had access to his shinigami powers for so long that his reiatsu had been storing up. So when he finally uses his abilities again they were heavily boosted. Because if Isshin was near Aizen in strength, he’d have been a legend in the Soul Society
Kubo should have made Isshin a former member of the Royal Guard. It made no sense for Isshin to be strong enough to fight Aizen one on one when someone as strong as Shunsui couldn’t come close to doing that and Shunsui is a top tier Captain.
I think it's less about Kyoraku not being able to win and more about him already being under the spell of Kyoka Suigetsu. That ability is just bananas. If you had 'em go at it with just blades and Kido, Shunsui probably has a respectable shot against Aizen.
@@vileluca Aizen’s fight with the Captains was clearly meant to illustrate that he was stronger than all of them combined even without Kyoka Suigetsu. That’s why Gin had that monologue about how the Espada would never have followed Aizen if he just relied on Kyoka Suigetsu. He really is strong enough to negate Soifon’s Shikai. He really is strong enough to blitz Shunsui, Toshiro, Shinji and Soifon at the same time.
Royal Guard requires some contribution to the Soul Society as a whole, like the Zanpaktou or Gigai. He works fine as a lazy noble since Shinigami from the noble houses have been shown to be naturally stronger than average
@@SunlightGwynI think it's naive to assume Aizen isn't using Suigetsu at all times against people who are ensnared with it. Especially if he boasts that he's not doing so. That's not to say he doesn't have immense power and can overshadow children like Soi Fon and Toshiro.
Fresh fighter V.S. Tired fighter You have to remember Aizen only fought the captians after they fought the Arancar... Aside from Yamamoto, they were all injured and tired. Then Yamamoto fought Aizen before Isshin started fighting him.
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Could Isshin defeat Aizen in the Fake Karakura Town Arc if Aizen never transcended, based on what we see in the manga? Let me know your thoughts on the potential battle in the comments - thanks everyone!
MrTommo, I didn’t read the light novels that were released after the end of the manga and I always wondered if Urahara can still use his Bankai. It is said that once a bankai is broken, it can never be properly restored and after his fight with Askin, Benihime collapses when Kisuke faints and it seems like it has broken in chapter 666 I believe
I'm wondering if perhaps Isshin has gone through the same "dangai training" that he put Ichigo through, which would explain his monstrous power. He does, after all, know about said training, and its results
Ishin is probably peak of power of nobel level captain.
And Aizen, well, what a dude did before he squared vs Ishin:
He activly fought whole gotei for lenghtly amount of time, that must have put strain on his body and reiryoku level
He got legit hit here and there, that also reduce his strenght and reiryoku
He was using Kyoka Suigetsu constantly, on that scale, we know already from novels that KS is extremly draining ability and using it for so long on such a scale should certanly put a lot of strain on body and power
He haf breaf encounter with Yama, in which he had to face tank some damn powerfull hado, that must have expanded a lot of energy to protect him from being fried
Then, he got hit by Ichigo, with pritty strong attack, while he got healed, that took a certanly a chunk of his energy to stop cleaving.
By time he fought Ishin, he probably burned about half of his energy and strained body. Ishin is also physicly supperior, so on simmilar energy level, he would have gotten advantage.
And why not using KS? Maybe his energy droping on half means his illusions would be much weaker, tho, even if that is case, i bealeave that he actualy wanted to push his body and energy to limit, to put himself in hopeless situation, so hogyoku can awaken. That is why Aizen was breathing heavy, his energy reserves were heavy depleted, and his stammina also suffered a lot, and Ishin enabled that final push.
What about Aizen vs Mayuri?????
Mayuri pretty much kicked a fully unrestrained Toshiro so has Aizen
Mayuri was the TYW arc MVP
Isshin is no doubt powerful. I don't know if he was already in Shikai but since he used Getsuga Tenshou, perhaps he was. His Bankai no doubt will be powerful but unless it can blitz Aizen, he's got no chance. Kyoka Suigetsu is just too broken. Even Yhwach got trapped and the Quincy king is a lot stronger than Isshin.
Imagine how screwed the soul society would be if they didn’t have constant help from gifted teenagers and people they’ve betrayed, forgotten and thrown to the curb.
Funny how being so high and mighty has messed them up in every instance, my favorite is Yama refusing to have his arm healed… even if they are fortunate to have these allies, they can’t be bothered to keep them 🙄
@@leogoetz3705I have no idea why he would willingly leave the Soul Society without its ultimate weapon at full power. You’d think that Yamamoto would understand that he’s the best chance they have should some major threat arise.
I wonder what would have changed. Rukia dead, Aizen the new SK and I wonder if Yhwach would be able to defeat a Soul Society under his rule. Man SO MUCH would have been different. Hinamori dead, Hitsugaya on a path on revenge and getting killed, Byakuya destroyed by guilt and responsibility, and Yachiru and Kenpachi causing a bloodbath... Man that would have been so interesting. Someone want to write a Fanfic?
They wouldn’t be that screwed if Ichibei stopped goofing around in the Royal Palace and actually did something before the Soul Society was annihilated. Ichigo wouldn’t be needed if Ichibei told the Soul Society what Aizen’s true ability was. He named everything in the Soul Society including Zanpakuto so he should know the name of the Zanpakuto ability as well. And even if he didn’t know, he absolutely knew when Aizen defected to Hueco Mundo. He could have sent all the Captains and Squad Zero into Hueco Mundo to overwhelm Aizen before the Hogyoku even awakened.
Well, it is a Shonin anime, and is targeted at teenagers so of course teenagers and their power of friendship and angsty emotion will always trump wisdom, size, strength and station. 😅
Isshin must have a badass Bankai. I think out of the entire Bleach cast that is in TYBW, I hope Isshin and Ryuken get some extra scenes.
They definitely will in cour 4 and I can’t wait. I refuse to believe that kubo wont show it until the hell arc.
This is the problem with bleach, so many episodes and yet we can't witness most side character powers unlike Naruto and one piece
That’s what I’m hoping for too isshin can fight with the shinigami for one last before he lives life as a human and maybe finally get a bankai showcase and ryuken can help Uryu fight hashwalth and use letz stil and give up his Quincy powers
remember all captains must have a bankai to become a Captain.. But isshin left due to Ichigos mom who he knew to be a Quincy born and was protecting her by leaving the gotei13. never Even released his shikai vs aizen as welll
This is surely why I need to read the hell arc manga. Gosh damn if you think and really think...there is alot kubo is still hiding from us!
As a noble, former captain and family man. Isshin was quite formidable.
*is
@@AgrestisAnima unfortunately he doesn’t have a fight after this one anymore
@Jhoodjin I doubt they're going to show Bankai, since they explicitly removed even the mention of his Bankai in Everything but the Rain.
Agreed, Isshin is the ultimate badass daddy
The crazy thing is, he hadn't used his shikigami powers in literal years. No training, no fights, anything. Then, he oneshots an incomplete arrancar, which is the only kind of warm-up he had before this fight with Aizen.
Isshin is the real deal. We don't even see him use any kind of release for his zanpaktou, even though he has bankai. He might be one the strongest characters, lowkey.
He was probably training after Ichigo went to Hueco Mundo.
@@MaxIronsThird Probably but even then what is that a couple of days
@@Aurelius-bf3yx Shonen have time and time again shown that s rusty character can get in shape in a couple of days, also it was probably more like a week.
@@MaxIronsThird Ok but we have no reason to believe if he trained at all that it was some super intense Shonen protag esk training, he is a single father and a doctor he doesn't have to time to do that. I agree with you that he was probably doing some minor training to get back into shape but I doubt it was anything note worthy like say Ichigo's various training courses otherwise we would have been told about it.
Also they didn't bring any food or anything so I really can't imagine it was much longer than a couple of days tops.
@@Aurelius-bf3yx Maybe he used his vacation time and hired a babysitter LOL
Isshin was such an important member of the Shiba clan that it fell to pieces when he disappeared.
Tbf i think Kaien was kind if the straw that broke the camels back, but Isshin is the one that started the downfall
@@MartezAnimsyeah, without Kaien, there wasn't much holding the clan from being nuked by SS. Isshin becoming a captain was a last ditch effort that probably had no chance anyway. 😢
I think it's important to recognize something about this fight. Aizen was never the type to engage in fair combat face to face with his opponent or take risks, he was a planner. Up until his fight with Yamamoto, every one of his fights was planned in such a way that his victory was guaranteed either through overwhelming power or through Kyoka Suigetsu. As soon as he started fighting Yama (and for every one of his fights afterwards) he started engaging people recklessly, not fighting to win but fighting to take risks.
He did this because he needed a 1v1 fight with an opponent who was powerful enough to push him to his limit in order to draw out the Hogyoku's power, but not powerful enough to destroy him outright. That's why his first plan was extinguishing Yama's zanpakuto, it gave him the opportunity to fight the captain commander without being obliterated immediately by its flames.
Ichigo was Aizen's primary backup plan. He expected Ichigo to become powerful enough to awaken the hogyoku due to his hybrid nature, and that's why Aizen was disappointed that Ichigo fell short of his expectations.
Failing that, he knew about Isshin's situation right from the beginning and knew that Isshin's powers would start returning once he was no longer connected to Masaki or White, and probably had Isshin lined up as a second backup plan.
Finally, he was probably banking on Urahara being his last-ditch backup plan because that encounter would be the least predictable fight due to Urahara's insane strategizing ability, and Urahara's knowledge of the Hogyoku posed the greatest risk to Aizen's plans.
@@-Keith- Wonderwiese wasn't his first plan. He was a backup plan for a scenario in which he loses to Yamamoto. Which is exactly what happened. Once Wonderwiese got involved, the fight was over.
Bro is cooking. You are right on the money.
Indeed.Aizen needed someone to push him past his limits.
It's also worth remembering Isshin's power was capable of holding hollow poisoning at bay in his wife for YEARS. A constant drain without a moment's respite. His reserves have to be absolutely enormous
Also dont forget him holding the dangai open for 2000 hrs with his reiatsu alone.
@@doom9128Shiba clan ancestor's spiritual pressure was said to be relative to Soul King, so yk... genetics.
@@thetacokawaii5708 Actually wait I'm stupid, it was already mentioned in the video.
The answer is yes. He got that dad strength and bulky forearms.
The power of Dilf compells him
Another under-utilised character, him and Ryuken should have been more involved throughout the story and in particular the final arc. I would have loved Isshin being more involved when Ichigo lost his powers in the Fullbring arc.
The anime will do them justice. There’s no way kubo will allow them to do nothing this time around.
no, they really shouldn't have. That's not the point of the story.
@@revenantronin8377 yes they should, soi fon and other random characters get to fight stenrritter but ryuken and isshin who are the 2 main characters' parents get no fights, doesn't make much sense
@@seanc7990 It does make sense if you actually read the story Kubo is telling you, and not make up fanfic in your head.
@@revenantronin8377 ryuken is quincy who had his close ones die because of yhwach, why wouldn't he be involved in the fight? Isshin's son is getting whooped by yhwach so why wouldn't he fight either? He fought against aizen who was significantly less of a threat than yhwach, it was a mistake by kubo because of rushed deadlines
Isshin philosophy of "max power, minimum effort" differs from Ichigo's "any power, maximum effort." It shows in their martial approach.
🤷🏾 the guy hangs with a rival doctor who's a quincy, a renegade captain on the run, and a fellow Noble House captain who's a furry.
I love Aizen, but he was biding his time. Great foreshadowing as to why Aizen doubted Ichigo's rematch and the power of his downfall.
I have seen people glaze Aizen to the moon.
I have literally seen a comment under a Yamamoto VS Aizen video with 100+ likes which said that Base Aizen (no Hogyoku) could deflect Yamamoto's bankai. Not dodge or survive but DEFLECT a North from Yamamoto's bankai... people must be insane.
That is insane, Aizen definitely cannot deflect his bankai. But Aizen is one of the few shonen characters who have nothing to prove.... he literally beat most of the captains easily even before the hogyoku activated. He is that powerful.
I’d assumed that Isshin was so strong because of his ties to the hollow White and Misaki, essentially acting as the lynchpin keeping White restrained and Misaki herself. My thoughts were that these factors resulted in the strengthening of his spirit energy due to acting as that “lynchpin” for however many years it’s been up til that point.
Impossible to tell but I always wondered if Isshin is capable of pulling off something similar to the Final Getsuga Mugetsu of his own, has he was the one that knew of the process.
I figured it was a clan secret and he could
Yes. He says so when he is explaining to Ichigo that he needed to force Zangetsu to tell him how to perform The Final Getsuga Tensho. He says that Engetsu didn't want to teach it to him but I believe in the end he did. That's likely how he knows about it.
It's kinda implied that he knows it; in theory, he should be able to do it.
@@CoolOkay_ Well, Isshin actually says his Engetsu didn't want to tell him how. He also wouldn't know that he would need to force Zangetsu to tell him how to use it if he himself didn't already know how. That's why I am pretty positive that he knows how to use Mugetsu.
Probably but if a shinigami did it they would probably go to hell right?
The fact he made aizen who was beginning to transcend be like yeah I felt that one honestly says a lot
Isshin didn’t do anything to Aizen and Aizen never used KS on him after fighting a bunch of tired and injured shinigami.
@@0eyes aizen didn't use KS on komamura or soi fon either and destroyed them through his own strength, isshin still scales highly because he was overwhelming aizen physically
@@0eyes isshin never used engetsu either lmfao
@@urlikskull1071 My point is that if Aizen wanted to beat Isshin he would, Engetsu is a poor man’s Ryujin Jakka, Aizen isn’t worried about that.
I think that Isshin, being a young captain (likely some kind of prodigy) from a noble house, means that he's likely in the upper echelon of what a shinigami could possibly achieve. He's honestly probably comparable to end of series Byakuya. Especially given the fact that he is aware of the Final Getsuga technique, he's likely on a level of connection to his zanpakuto unlike other shinigami.
Aizen, while being immensely strong has taken hits from Yama, Ichigo, and even with the advantage of KS, likely did have to strain himself to blitz the entire Gotei in the way that he did.
Additionally, Aizen's entire spiritual makeup being completely rewritten by a (possibly parasitic) symbiote like the Hogyoku is also likely draining him as well.
As for why he doesn't use shikai or Bankai? It's possible he's too exhausted or they're just not techniques that could make a difference in the battle at that time.
Or of course, we could just also remember that Aizen always lies. So it's possible he's just totally toying with everyone, intentionally holding back to have some fun.
Do I think Isshin could Aizen in a fair 1v1 outside of this context? Probably not. But then again, is there such a thing as a fair fight against Aizen?
Without the chance of the hogyoku awakening, Aizen wouldn't ever allow a fair 1v1 against Isshin. That wasn't his style until he got to a point where he was trying to wake up the hogyoku. And the very nature of his zanpakuto inherently makes every fight unfair when he chooses to use it.
That being said, I do believe that Isshin could beat pre-hogyoku Aizen in a "no zanpakuto abilities" 1v1 brawl, but that kinda goes counter to the entire Bleach series so it's a moot point.
If you take the novels as canon, Tokinada, whose Reiatsu is equal to Yoruichi and post Royal Palace training Byakuya, was said to nowhere be on Shinigami Aizen's level. If Isshin is comparable to the noble heads post TYBW, then his chances of beating Aizen seem rather small.
Kubo’s wording for “I understood that attack” is really cool because it shows us how strong Aizen really is at this point
I've always seen Isshin, Yoruichi and Urahara as a tier above the rest of the pre-skip Gotei, outside of Unohana and Yamamoto. Even Shunsui I have below them. His Bankai obviously shoots him well up there with/above them because it's so absurdly overpowered.
I personally have Shunsui as being equal to the exile captains - his showing against Lille Barro (although Lille > Shunsui) is quite insane. At the same time, though, Shunsui is the LEAST consistently written captain in the whole goddamn series.
@ailaxl Fair point! Taking his showings against Lille, he should not have been man-handled by Aizen like that. Then again, Kyoka Suigetsu is beyond broken, so he was basically sneak attacked when Aizen took him down.
@@danielmacdonald9287 except that Yamamoto himself said Shunsui and Ukitake combat skills were in a class all their own. So kuch so that Yamamoto used the word "transcendent". Outside of specific talents (Like Yoruichi's speed or Urahara's IQ), Shunsui should be stronger. Even with their 100 year exile and any special prep/training they did in that time, at most they should be relative to Shunsui.
a fair assessment, but shunsui is by far the strongest of the four (feats).
i have it: shunsui>=urahara>=isshin>=yoruichi. same ballpark, with prep urahara jumps to n1, but still. shunsui is a beast, his bankai is an instant death. it killed the (arguably) third strongest quincy, behind yhwach and haschwalth (yes, i think lille was still above uryu, although hax in bleach make it hard to debate power levels).
@corruptangel6793 so Shunsui is overall more solid and consistent (power wise) than those two but they are better in specific aspects that could give them an edge? Yeah, I can see that. I'd put them all in the same ballpark though.
Given that he was heading straight to Aizen and told Ichigo to carry him there, Isshin really thought his version of Mugetsu would be enough to at least incapacitate Aizen. Pretty sure that Isshin was ready to use Mugetsu back then and have Ichigo watch so that he could learn it for the future (Yhwach). The only reason Isshin didn't use it is because he thought, with the Dangai world having no cleaners, teaching Ichigo the Mugetsu would be the better option overall for everybody since Ichigo's hybrid nature makes the 'lost shinigami powers' trade-off not so bad compared to Isshin.
Which brings up a whole new question to the mix: was Isshin planning on dying that day?
Think about it. Mugetsu's cost is losing shinigami powers and as we see with Ichigo, it took everything to do with spiritual power away from him. Zangetsu, his shinigami form, his ability to see spirits, etc. He could use Fullbring but that's reliant on his human form anyway. So the cost must be severe for Isshin given that he isn't a hybrid and thus no human form to revert to. His gigai, while I guess advanced enough to allow Isshin to bear children, shouldn't be able to protect him from the trade-off. You'd need a shinigami form to use a gigai in the first place.
So was Isshin, knowing the risk of using Mugetsu against Aizen, also planning his own death to defeat his enemy?
It's implied Isshin unlocked the final gestsuga tensho resulting in an insane increase in power, similar to Ichigo.
Admittedly it is never stated that unlocking the move gives you a powerup too, hence the implication.
It's why Isshin reasons that teaching Ichigo the move is the one shot they have, the move by itself probably wouldn't do it, Ichigo would still need a power up.
Given that Isshin was an above Captain at best prior to losing his powers, he must have learned the final gestsuga relatively recently. Obviously during/after Ichigo's final battle with Byakuga, but beyond that we don't know.
The answer is yes: Aizen was at his shinigami limit ( after defeating eight captain-class opponents by himself & surviving destruction at the hands of Yammamoto's Hadō #96. Ittō Kasō) when Isshin showed up and even realized that he couldn't push himself any further. The fact that even a psychologically weakened Ichigo could sneak up on him & actually wound him bears testament to my assertion. If the Hogyoku plot device had not kicked in, Aizen would have had to retreat or face defeat at the hands of the fresh powerful captain-class opponents. Whether being fused to the Hogyoku diminished his spiritual power reserves or not is up to debate, but we know that it requires someone with at least twice the spiritual power of a captain just to activate it for a few moments.
Yes I was getting frustrated at the fact that the video keeps ignoring the Itto Kaso and the direct Getsuga Tenshou to the chest from Ichigo
Plus ichigo only landed a hit on a aizen who was dazed from a giant kido from Yamamoto . Therefore not using his reiatsu to negate ichigo’s attack
I think Aizen was just playing into meaning "his limit... as a shinigami" as he was clearly intentionally not using Kyoka Suigetsu, possibly "testing the limits of his abilities without a zanpakuto," so that the hogyoku would respond to his "need" to be stronger without one.
He'd definitely would have a shot. He pushed Aizen to the point the hogyoku started to trancend him, and that was without even using bankai. Aizen beat the gotei, but they were all fatigued and under Kyōka Suigetsu. Isshin was at full strength and if he wasn't under hypnosis, he'd have a chance imo
Aizen had just fought a bunch of tired visoreds and shinigami. Isshin had not done a single thing to him.
@@0eyes He pushed Aizen to his shinigami limits and even had the power to damage his cocoon form. That means he could have done that same damage to his base form, which would have been fatal
Exactly, the Gotei was already exhausted AND under KS against a fresh Aizen.
They got exhausted by the espada. The same people gin said aizen would overpower and one shot
@@Matthew_Webster that aizen took much more hits than he normally would.
This is purely speculative, but I have a theory that Aizen needs time to activate his shikai. We never saw the if his illusion can suddenly changes his opponents' view. I think his ability, like himself, takes a long time preparing, plotting, rendering a new fake world. During that time, he doesn't have enough CPU to conduct other heavy tasks like fighting. So he let the hollows fight first, so that he can rendering his illusion. After that part is complete, he starts to get into fight himself, but he can't risk activate his shikai again in the midst of fighting.
Aizen's Shikai is very flexible. He had it on auto for half the Soul Society arc to project his image on an irrelevant corpse. He also turns it on and off willy nilly when he seals it in front of Unohana and turns it back on to hypnotize Komamura. In fact, he introduced himself to Barragan and immediately showed him his Zanpakuto to massacre his army as they talked.
@@olo703 @olo703 I didn't mean he'll freeze for the activation, it's just consuming. after it's done rendering, it's not that consuming anymore. For example, he has his corpse ready to go and he can bring it out since he never log out if this soul society fake death instance. It's like creating games or anime, it takes months to draw one episode, but after it's done, you can replay it as much as you want without issues.
His encounter to barrigan was one of the instance I was thinking of. He activates his shikai and stand there talking, stalling, generating illusion, while gin and tousen go on fighting
@@zyao1043 How does it take Aizen time to "render" the illusion when Barragan is immediately under the impression that his army is not being killed?
@@zyao1043Cfyow reveals that its activation is virtually instantaneous he just didn't use it so he can finally transcend
My assumption is that Aizen's form might have been a little unstable before his transformation actually kicked off in earnest. I'm guessing that the events of that day and the Hogyoku getting him ready to change had burned him out a bit, not to mention that Isshin was completely unhindered and at full strength.
If Aizen uses he's Bankai, they will all wake up from a combined dream and back to their regular lives (end credit theme scenes)
Isshin is definitely powerful, but probably not more than Shunsui in terms of Reiatsu, unless he fused with White and Masaki's reiatsus which would make him close to Ichigo and Reio.
As for Aizen reaching his limit as a shinigami it is probably linked to him fusing with the Hogyouku which probably pushed his shinigami body to its limits. If he wasn't using Kyoukasuigetsu it's also probably because of that, or maybe he knew it was no use since he was about to enter his cocoon mode and he wanted Isshin to witness his powerlessness in despair. I also think he wanted to chat with him about Ichigo being Reio material thanks to him. In short, Aizen was just passing time with Isshin until he could evolve and show them true despair.
So in my opinion, no, he could not have defeated him before the Hogyouku. First because if he was using his shikai, fight would be over quick. Second, even if Isshin has a powerful Bankai, so does Aizen and Isshin's bankai would probably be useless against Kyoukasuigetsu. Moreover, Aizen had already fused with Hogyouku so couldn't be harmed effectively (unless by Zanka no Tachi). Even if Aizen was weakened by his fusion, he could not get hurt for real and I suspect he would have just evolved faster if Isshin's Bankai had managed to touch him, just like when he got hit by his Getsuga. It only seemed to have sped up the process.
32:14 aizen may have been losing his connection with his kyoka suigetsu cause he was already giving up being a shinigami.
I've seen it theorized that Isshin's little flick is an unspoken Hado 1 Sho, and it does seem to make sense. Byakuya performs Sho on Hanataro in his battle against Zommari, and it's just a little flick of his finger as well.
I think you missed a great opportunity for a segue into the ad like "How could Isshin beat Aizen? If he prepped for the battle with some snacks from Tokyo Treat and Sakuraco, he might've been able to. And speaking of them..."
It would still be as infinitely effortless. Byakuya used it to a break a little bit of ice without damaging Rukia. This is the same Byakuya that used Hado#4 to punch a hole through Bankai Ichigo's shoulder.
Basically it might as well have been a flick.
Isshin didn't even speak the abbreviated command, supposing it was a Hado. It's like when Urahara stunned Rukia in the first arc. You know Urahara would flick her head off if he wanted at that point.
Given that Aizen admits that Yamamoto was stronger than him, Isshin was probably the second strongest captain during the time from Turn back the pendulum to current.
Isshin flicked Aizen's ass through the building. Don't forget how cocky Aizen is, he would not allow himself to even look vulnerable never mind getting tossed by a finger.
Aizen having reached the limit as a Shinigami is kind of the whole reason for him seeking out to become part Hollow - so it might just be he is not actually answering Isshin's question.
Isshin meant "is this all you can do in this fight?" when asking if Aizen reached his limit but Aizen might just have given back a general response on how he has no room left to grow as a Shinigami.
In the fight with white Aizen already analyzed Isshin's power and since becoming a father Isshin had very little opportunity to get stronger. It might simply be that Aizen does not see him as a threat and instead pumps more of his energy towards activating the Hougyoku, so much so he can't even use Shikai or many other skills anymore.
It would mean he underestimated Isshin as seen in the "I understood that strike" line but he barely did not get punished for his miscalculation.
As a noble I would put isshin near Shunsui/Unohana lvl maybe less since he’s loss a shinigami powers for years and Shunsui been active for a while… Given that Koga suigetsu most likely uses up a lot of reirykou seeing how Tokinada couldn’t use it for long since he’s weaker than Aizen in CFYOW… Azien would’ve been tired from using it to fight the Gotei 13 “at his limits as a shinigami” while face off a fresh Ishin, Urahara, and yourichi. If both combatants are fresh, Azien stomps
I still don't understand why kisuke and Isshin didn't use bankai, I don't think kisukes bankai would be disadvantageous to allies and could've even helped mess up the reconstruction with the hogyoku based on how we've seen his bankai used
Urahara's bankai is kinda like an activated hokyoku
@@MIGBMWLOVER never thought of it that way but yeah it actually kinda is
@@screwydrewy3214That won't work. Kisuke's power has limits; he couldn't even change his body to handle poison. When the toxicity of the Gift Ball intensified, he was completely reliant on Nelliel for help. There's no way he could override the Hogoku's power, which can completely break down a soul and make it evolve. Plus, Kisuke knew that any extra power would only push Aizen further.
@@randomdude6446 good point but still think it would’ve been worth a try
Good vid! I think many people often under-estimate how much of an impact it has that AIzen has been fighting all the battles that he has up to this point. The concept of characters exhausting their reiryoku is a thing in Bleach, it only make sense that Aizen gets exhausted too. That's what Isshin mean by "Have you reached your limit?" He means the limit of his stamina, that he has depleted all of his reiryoku.
I think Aizen's sudden drop in performance can still make sense though, if depleting your reiryoku is less like gradual, physical exhaustion, and more like running out of gas. You CAN still go at 70 miles an hour rigjt up until the engine starts to cough.
Biiiiiiiiiig fan of your uploads man! I agree with you a good amount of the time....We really need more Kubo details regarding Engetsu...PERIOD!!! ⚔
Supposedly some new information about Reio was revealed at Bleach EX or XE, I don't remember 🤣, but it seems to be contradicting the novel's interpretation of his dismemberment, are you gonna do a video on it? I gotta hear your thoughts my boi😤
Excellent video! I love getting to hear an analysis from the pre-TYBW
So many Bleach fans slob Aizen's knob too much. There's a bunch of Shinigami who were stronger than him without the McGuffinyoku.
The entire Zero Division. Yamamoto. Kenpachi (unleashed anyway). Unohana.
And several who had the strength to kill him in one blow if they managed to connect - Kyoraku's bankai, Gin, potentially Urahara.
It’s only because kubo himself slobs on Aizens knob
@@br5073lol you're not wrong
Kenpachi and unohana are definitely weaker than Aizen, kenpachi wankers are worse than Aizen wankers
I don’t think Yamamoto could beat Aizen
Sure, but he does have kyoka suigetsu. And he did use the hogyoku. You could say the same thing about most shinigami. Imagine Aizen without using zanpakuto vs any other shinigami not using theirs, Yoruichi would probably destroy him and that would be about it.
mr tommo might be the only youtuber that can make me sit down and enjoy a sponsor
My idea is that the hogyoku was taking a toll on aizens stamina and power during its process of evolving him. Think like how humans burn energy to create energy (digesting of food) I would expect that the same is true for the hogyoku. It expends aizens reserves during this process of evolution hence why he reaches his limit quick against ishinn
Also got to mention though shortly after the fight he trains Ichigo to use the final getusga which means it's most likely a family secret move passed on the generations. If he had used that against Aizen he def would have won.
What if, aizen's apparent slow down was intentional. What if the hogyoku requires a soul to be in a state of distress for it to truly activate? Kind of like a high-speed forced evolution.
Your videos butter My biscuits thank you
Congrats on hitting 250k subs
I think isshin is much much stronger than we all think, yes he was the leader of one of the nobel houses, but also he is a prodigy and a freak a monster in its own right.
I think he isn't just strong but he is a smart fighter, kinda like goku, a lazy genius with a quirky weird improvise style.
To the point where I do believe isshin could be captain commander or even squad 0 but he is too lazy to try.
I think isshin was fighting more on a " ultra instinct like" of mode that prevented Aizen power to work.
Hey tommo dude you rock I’m sorry I haven’t commented as much lately but I love all your videos, bleach is my favorite manga/anime, can we maybe collab? I would like to ask you some questions about bleach,
Great topic for a video Isshin is criminally overlooked
@MrTommo2304 just curious idk if Kubo, ever mentioned it but chapter 1 / episode 1 when Ichigo breaks rukia kido, was it his hidden soul reaper or quiency/hollow breaking it, or was his Reiatsu at that moment so much higher then hers
Love this, never considered this part of the fight. Would like to see you do a what if on how it would've gone if the Quincies had returned prior to the Hueco Mundo arc when Aizen had his army. I'll keep asking forever 😂
could you do a video on how shinigami age differently
I like to think that as Aizen fought Isshin he was in the preparatory stages of his transformation. So as the hyogoku began absorbing reshi in preperation it drained on his stamina greatly.
Yes he could have won.
Imo, Aizen prior to the hogkyoku is not nearly as PHYSICALLY powerful as ppl think he is. He is clearly a kido master, but outside of that we havent seen him do anything particularly impressive in a fight unlesss KS was invovled. And i think its ability is a perfect compliment to someone who doesny actually possess some of the overwhelming power weve seem exhibited by other shinigami. Its a ability that benefits more from his mental capabilities rather than his physical power.
The only loophole is that Aizen claims to have used KS on all the captains and vice captains during his captain ceremony, yet Isshin seems to not be affected by it despite the fact he should have veen a captain at the time.
I mean, even if we assume everything Aizen did against the captains was just KS, he was still able to stop Ichigo's sword (while he was in Bankai) with a finger. And he survived Yamamoto's hado 96 without taking too much damage
Even if you argue both were hurt/tired (which is true) that's still a very impressive feat of raw power. Making Grimmjow drop to his knees with his reiatsu alone is also impressive, I don't remember seeing anything like that since Yamamoto and Nanao
That would have been a nice fight.
Hopefully we would have seen his Bankai.
Oh he definitely would have needed it 😂😂😂. There would have been outrage if isshin won without it.
I was taking about Aizen, but Isshin as well
Aizen was never being pressured by Isshin. That much is clear by how he'd handled the previous battles. Even Shunsui was nothing to him, and he just tanked a 90s Kido from Yamamoto himself from point blank with little damage.
I think it's clear he was taking his time here and not putting in any real effort. Look at Aizen's expressions. He never so much as bats an eye. He was just waiting for the Hogyoku to finally start activating. If he wanted to, he could have perception blitzed Isshin the same way he did Ichigo, Shunsui, and Soi-Fon. We know this, especially because Isshin was unable to suppress White during Ichigo's battle with Byakuya. As he himself says, his spiritual pressure was no longer strong enough to seal Ichigo's hollow powers.
I totally agree. Isshin fans are just delusional. Lmao
Hell the anime has isshin some bruises and scratch marks while aizen seemed relatively clean
i think Aizen's brief exchange with Yama is very important here, Yama used a kido spell that was meant to kill what he considered to be at least twice as strong as an average captain, not only that but the attack was strong enough to cleanly erase one of Yama's arms, and Aizen came out pretty much unscathed, the only way I can see that happening is if he protected himself with huge amounts of reiatsu meaning he had to have used a lot of it by the time Isshin came around, we also know that reiatsu is very important when it comes to activating shikai and bankai so that might be why he stopped using kyoka suigetsu
Interesting analysis. It makes sense, but curious that neither fighters blade made any difference, admittedly because we known so little about Ishins. But in a 1v1 fight it does make me wonder, could the likes of Kenpachi or his predissesor have been a match? They have arguably the same if not more physical skill as any other character we've seen.
I think Isshin was legitimately besting him. Sure Aizen was tired but the three, Yorichi, Keyske (no idea how to spell his name) and Isshin are held up on a pedestal as a whole other tier of power to the other Captains. Based on how we see them fighting. I'd bet that each of them is High Captain level and that Isshin was the strongest and besides Aizen the closest to matching the old man in strength.
Considering that Aizen seems to be unable to wait to throw away his zanpakuto, I wouldn't be surprised if he rejected his own Bankai, and that's why he didn't/couldn't use it. To have a true Bankai, you have to acknowledge that the sword is you. Aizen seems to reject that, he wants to be more than a shinigami, more than his Zanpakuto. I would bet he was so disappointed by his own Bankai the first time he activated it, so disappointed by his own limits, that it's what triggered him to seek out all this extra power.
I also have a theory that activating his Bankai undoes the hypnosis of Kyoka Suigetsu. Bankai seem to have a tendency to either double down on or inverse the powers of the shikai for users. Since Aizen, despite his subterfuge to gain power, in his heart of hearts, seems to want true power, and seems to speak honestly about his own power and the power he seeks. I wouldn't be surprised if his Bankai eliminated all illusions as a part of its power. And that would go against his plans. Though, it also begs the question why he wouldn't use it once his powers fully emerged with the hyogyoku and he no longer needed deception. So maybe it was just a Bankai of more lies, which is why he rejected his blade entirely once he got the true power of the hyogyoku. Throwing away the zanpakuto is equivalent to throwing yourself away, so this could also be why the hyogyoku allowed Aizen to be sealed after being hit with mugetsu.
There really is so much that can be analyzed from Aizen and what happens with him, it's pretty insane, honestly
Fresh Isan vs Fresh Issin, I give it to Isan
Worn Isan vs Fresh Issin, I would say its a draw
Worn Isan using hokuoku and focusing on evolving vs Fresh Issin, Issin wins.
Think it all come down to the fact that Isan's hands where tied. He was constantly fighting back to back again several powerful indeviduals, while Isan was putting his focus into the hokuoku first and foremost, as evolution is his current goal. So Ishin turning up fresh from nowhere after that must've put Isan on the back foot. I like to imagin the reason Isan couldnt go full power, or use his shiki or banki is due to him prioritising fusing with the hokuoku and that action, for whatever reason is why he couldnt use his full power array.
Either that or Isan believes his hyper so much and drank all thqt cool aid gave himself the person goal/handicap to try and defeat everyone there without going to shiki.
Theres some language stuff to consider with Gin's statement that Aizens power moves the heavens and earth. Isshin's zabpakuto ability is Getsuga Tenshou, which is something along the lines if 'Moons fang pierces heaven'. I suspect that these things are deliberately related to eachother.
That’s incorrect it’s stated that Isshin’s zanpakuto is a fire based zanpakuto. The move is itself is special Kubo himself said that other than the name of the move there are no similarities to both father and son’s sword
@@shoryusenkei3136 I didn't say the names were the same, I said the linguistic implications were the same. They have the same name, which means they both tie into the wordplay of comparing Aizen's power to heaven, and then having a character with a move that states it can pierce heaven.
The fact that the names are the same is literally the only point that matters for that.
Can you do a bankai theory on squad zero Tenjirō Kirinji?
This is another reason why I really wish Yamamoto's sacrificial final attack had been depicted as seriously injuring Aizen, Isshin's performance against him as a non-Zero Squad, non-Senior Captain would have made way more sense were that the case.
Also: at the beginning of the video, you show the part where Aizen says "what made you think I wasn't using Kyoka Suigetsu?". That means it's on, and nowhere does it say he deactivated it.
My take is that Isshin whacked most of the Gotei 13 in order to satisfy his ego by showing them how powerless they were.
By the time Isshin appeared, he simply used Kyoka Suigetsu to play with Isshin until the Hogyoku awakened.
It's always been part of my belief that Isshin new and had practiced against Aizens zanpakuto in the same way that Aizen had practiced against his and that is why they knew that using them would put more of a tax on their body then just using raw power.
Before they crippled him by slashing him in the back, yes… maybe even after…
You're correct about Isshin only being a match for Aizen because he's fresh and Aizen's tired out.
Katie Ledecky could easily outswim every other opponent in the pool. Woman or man. Maybe even twice over. But if all her opponents start jumping in one after another, and she has to beat all of them in turn...eventually, someone's going to dive in fresh while she's nearing exhaustion.
Doesn't matter how much faster she is than the others, or how apparently-casually she took them apart. She's got a limit, and eventually, she'll flag. Aizen's the same way.
Tybw arc in Manga when Isshin was fighting White he was about to use his Bankai but aizen came from his back and cut him
Then aizen tokd that " this man bankai gives a huge strain on his body and now with that cut he cant use his bankai "
Isshin said " for that cut my reatsu became very unstable so i wont able to use my Bankai"
Theres also the possibility of the hogyuoku heavily consuming Aizen reiatsu to push the evolution on him, therefore making him slower and tired until the evolution finally started
I imagine that Isshin's reiatsu being used to hold back white for, what, 20 years, probably was like constant training, so when he got it back he was even stronger. And maybe it made white stronger inside too, which would explain why Ichigo is so massively powerful from the get go, even compared to other captains
I also want to consider the possibility that age also just plain makes soul reapers stronger naturally. So aging 20 years as a human would be equivalent to aging 200+ years as a shinigami, if not more, considering how slowly shinigami age, looking at how Yamamoto was already pretty old in the TYBW flashback and was still going strong until he died 1000 years later, not to mention the other characters from that time that barely seemed to age at all over those 1000 years.
@@Chronoflation 👌👍👍👌 mystery point.
Mr.Tommo, after Kubo said that Shikai is the Soul Reapers power and bankai is the zanpakto, wouldn't it make sense for Aizen to intentionally neglect his bankai as it refuses to rely on anyone's and anythings power then his own?
It probably doesn’t matter much but I wander which one of them is older and or maybe Isshin is older maybe his battle experience played in his favor maybe to being able to push Aizen farther then the other captain could
Also maybe because Isshin knew Urahara ( not sure how possible this would be but ) maybe Urahara and Isshin found some way to overcome Aizen’s sword abilitie
Because I’m not sure when but Aizen did say that he did admire Urahara’s intellect so I could see Urahara doing all he could to find a way to increase his odds of winning and or weakening him so he could seal Aizen away I would think Urahara would do all he could to learn all he could about Aizen and his swords abilities that he could to help
I do wander what Urahara’s back up plan was if Ichigo failed and his seal spell wasn’t able to take effect like how many plans did Urahara have both in the works and up his sleeve to defeat Aizen I wander
I feel like in that context, with a tired Aizen, he could definitely win. I believe when Isshin refers to Aizen’s limit, he means stamina wise, more than power wise. We don’t know how much it takes, but Aizen had been using Kyoka suigetsu for quite a while constantly before he even fought the captains. He also fought yamamoto and took an itto kaso to the face
Plz answer me this. I’ve watched your vids for YEARS & you are the GOAT! How did Byakuya get his Bankai back after the SS arc & Ichigo breaking his Zanpakto in Bankai after their last ditch clash??? In TYBW we were told once a bankai is broken it can’t be repaired…!!! How????
His bankai was never repaired I think.
Maybe because Isshin spent so many years in that gigai that Kiskue made, his spiritual power kept doubling back on itself, constantly building up and making him stronger until this fight came around, when he finally let loose.
Not at all, Kubo even explained that the reason isshin didn’t use fire with his zanpakuto against Aizen is that he recovered his powers not long ago and so he couldn’t use it at its best
We know that one of the few weaknesses to Aizen's zanpacto is he needs you to view it's release to put you under it's spell. We know that Isshin wasn't a captain during the turn back the pendulum arc, and by the time we do see him as a captain Aizen is also a captain, if Aizen was made captain first and shown most of the gotei captains and lieutenants his release before Isshin steps in as captain, Isshin may have slipped by without being put under it's spell before he ends up in self imposed exile. In which case Aizen may not have felt he had a chance to activate it between a relentless onslaught and knowing that Urahara likely forewarned him about that weakness. And without knowing what if anything his bankai can do there is no way to know if it could have helped, we know that they can often be rather situational.
I have questions.
Why everyone assumes Aizen is telling the truth most of the time?
Was he fighting? No. He was playing. He cut all if them but didnt kill anyone. He clearly could. He didnt. Why?
Why is Aizen never serious? Whats his actual goal?
Why Aizen let Isshin be pushed around like that? I think Aizen is working on something and until hell arc its a mistery only Kubo knows...
I am gonna do a bit of a theorycraft here and say Kyoga Suigetsu has two weaknesses:
1). Being touched ( "Yamero Gin-kun!")
2). Fire-type zanpaktou.
Why do I think 2? Because Aizen didn't even want to try to fuck with Ryujin Jakka in shikai state (and may have been legitimately trapped by its ability during the fake Karakura town arc). It'd neatly explain things in that regard as Genryusai only says he knows he's dealing with the real Aizen after it's sealed and after Aizen stabs him, until that point it didn't seem like the Old Man had any issues keeping an eye on where Aizen was for most of the fighting. I suspect Kyoka Suigetsu is water-type due to this reason as well as it ties into his captain exam as well (maybe he didn't fake most of it merely mislead with what the water manipulation did in reality).
We know Genryusai would've probably pushed even Chrysalis Aizen hard in Bankai so maybe Isshin isn't that far removed from that power level and I somewhat suspect Isshin might also be relative to Aizen in spirit pressure as well (Genryusai is likely stronger here vs Shinigami Aizen) as then the fire + relatively equal spirit pressure could null out Kyoga Suigetsu which might be why Aizen got pushed. And I don't think Aizen was tired before Isshin started manhandling him, there's a decent chance he has few counters to fire-type zanpaktou as they're also rarer types than most others. Can't even imagine what a lightning type could've done to Aizen if I am right on his zanpaktou being water-type.
I always assumed that 1) Gin learned about Aizen's 'weakness' in that moment, when Yama points it out to him, and 2) the issue with Ryujin Jakka is that Yama can just nuke everything around him and it doesn't matter if Aizen's hiding, he's dead. Similar to how Bambi dealt with Shinji. If you can't trust your senses, then don't bother using them and hit everywhere they could be. All he needs is confirmation that Aizen is actually there, something he gets with Ichigo being present.
@@PhantomNull13
I don't think Aizen knows Ryujin Jakka's full abilities as the only person who probably saw them in full and was still alive when he was born, much less became a captain, was Unohana (Yhwach doesn't count as he wasn't sentient back then) . Like Yama is so busted he doesn't even need to do anything in Bankai besides sit there with his fire armor on and see how long until his opponent bursts into flames by being on the same plane of existence as Genryusai as that's the actual weakness of Ryujin Jakka, it's a nuke once released irrespective of being used or not (probably why Yhwach didn't even try using it).
From a logical standpoint it'd be more reasonable to consider Aizen doesn't know just how fucked he'd be vs Genryusai but knows he's a fire type so doesn't wanna even deal with that. That and water manipulation, on a molecular level, could theoretically fuck with all 5 senses at once and with fine enough control of said molecules Aizen could well induce whatever inputs he'd want into the sensory organs of everyone around him (it'd also be an ultimate fuck you from him to be like "yeah, you don't even need to see my shikai for you to be fucked by it" as it'd tie into how Yhwach, who's never seen Kyoga Suigetsu's release, got fucked by its effect. Much simpler to think Aizen absorbed its abilities when he went post-mothman rather than him "becoming the blade").
@@RomanianReaver Aizen knows Yhwach's name, recognizes him immediately, and has knowledge of his plans. There's no way he hasn't bare minimum read descriptions of the battle against the quincies, and if he knows about his Bankai, he could easily assume that whatever Shikai's max output is, it would still be far more than he could reasonably take while still being an ordinary shinigami.
Particularly because it's not like it's remotely a secret that Yama is far and away the strongest shinigami. Even if he's only released his zanpaktou a few times while Aizen has been around, it's not like Yama usually keeps the flames confined to the blade and him creating massive pillars of fire was somehow surprising.
Not saying its impossible, just that I personally feel like he has enough information that he could assume it's dangerous without needing to specifically be weak to it.
@@PhantomNull13
First mistake: Thinking Aizen knows Yhwach from battles and reports of the past. Shinigami believe the Quincies are all dead (Aizen knows they're not due to Masaki popping up while he's observing White's handiwork, there's no point prior to that stage in the story where we have any reason to believe he's aware they're still around). Additionally: Mayuri documented everything about the Quincies (anatomically and likely culturally too) and Aizen sought power through knowledge wherever he could gain it so he likely read the quincy myth of the bound king (Yhwach) and likely deduced who was Yhwach when someone busted down the door of his prison cell when Aizen knew full well his warden was Genryusai so if anyone sans the Zero division could've done it it would've been the bound quincy king (and kinda would've helped the guessing that Yhwach has quincy attire and accessories).
You pick the most half-assed explanation and go complicate things when the lore of the series already has connection points that make logical sense. That and Aizen still underestimated Yhwach in their final battle, if he was fully aware of the Allmighty's power, which was around during the first Quincy/Shinigami war too, he wouldn't have ended up in that position.
@@RomanianReaver "Aizen sought power through knowledge whenever he could."
And somehow that means he wouldn't know how powerful Ryujin Jakka is, when it's renowned as the most powerful zanpaktou of all. That Yamamoto is the most powerful shinigami in the SS. That he wouldn't see the head captain who founded the court gaurd squads, led them for 1000 years, and think to use some of his time to research just how powerful he is before openly betraying him.
Again, these aren't some secrets that are closely guarded like the Oken or the original sin. Yamamoto should be entirely a known quantity outside of POSSIBLY his bankai. And even then, since Shunsui recognized it even though he'd never seen it, we can assume he at least knew the basics of what it does.
The Almighty wasn't around in the first war. Per TYBW cour 2, Ichibei sealed the Almighty before Yhwach invaded. And you're assuming that, upon seeing a quincy in Everything But the Rain, Aizen wouldn't look into it? The information might be harder to get, but he had access to central 46's records at the end of the Soul society arc, so it's not too much of a stretch that he would've been able to get more heavily restricted information. Hell, he knew about the Original Sin despite not having access to the royal palace. If he can figure out what the Soul King is, I genuinely see no reason why he could know that, yet couldn't find classified records of the event that led to the founding of the sereitei.
And your theory requires you to take Aizen at his word, that his zanpaktou is water type when it's entirely possible that he pulled that description out of his ass to explain why he can make illusions without revealing he's controlling everyone's senses. Aizen never even mentioned it in the series. We only have that from Isane when he revealed he purposefully showed it off to control the entire power structure of the soul society. It's literally mentioned once, and that once was immediately undercut by Unohana pointing out that it's just a prerequisite for sensory control.
And yet as I mentioned, it still makes him entirely vulnerable to a massive AoE attack like Ryujin Jakka is capable of releasing. You can make Yamamoto think he's literally dead by controlling all of his senses, but if he generates a nuke and you're in the blast radius, you're dead, plain and simple. And Yamamoto literally does that the second he ascertains that Aizen is present and in his grasp. He grabs his arm and tells Ichigo to leave because all of the captains are about to become collateral damage. It wasn't because he was weak to fire. It was because he recognizes that if Yama is prepared to accept losses, he's going to lose. Yamamoto has the power to kill him, and the range to actually do it even while under KS.
AoE attacks are an entirely logical weakness to Kyoka Suigetsu just as much as flames would be to a water type zanpaktou. And there is literally zero reason why Aizen wouldn't realize that.
I figured Isshin was pressuring Aizen so much and tiring him out, wearing down his reaitsu Aizen didn't have enough time and energy to use Bankai.
It'd be odd if Isshin wasn't under the influence of Kyoka Suigetsu but he also uses Kisuke old cloak to mask his presence against Isshin in the Everything But The Rain flashback so maybe he wasn't
Isshin could have used his Final Getsuga Tensho and probably won that however would have removed him from the fight and if Aizen wasn't completely overwhelmed by it and survived the Hokyoku would have still begun his ascension saving his life
Maybe if Ryuken had come along to help as well
No, let's not forget Aizen used neither his shikai nor his Bankai. He was playing with them to stimulate his evolution. He actually said that, evolution requires fear of death or something. He even let Gin try to kill him. And the think is, he even let Ichigo live for the same purpose. He just lost because Urahara sealed him between evolutions.
Also, even Ishin and Urahara didn't use their bankais because probably realize it would be useless since he was regenerating.
Isshin was still in sealed state as well.
Aizen constantly uses his shikai. That's how he tricked all the captains into attacking Hinamori thinking it was him. He's NEVER used his bankai, if he even has one.
Isshin also didn't use his shikai or bankai, he only used one getsuga tenshou after the hyogoku activated, what's your point
@@xxcagedriotxx He did not use shikai against Ishin, or Urahara or Yoruichi.
@@glizzynator5258 True, but we saw Ishin's release in TBTP and it cannot be compared to Kyouka Suigetsu. So I think they were fighting in equal terms. Ishin used a Getsuga Tensho, but Aizen didn't use any of Kyouka Suigetsu skill as far as we know in that fight. That's why I believe he was just trying to awaken the Hyogoku in his body to further become one with his blade. For that he needed strong opponents.
Would love to see a Tskushima vs Jugram what if vid! Battle of the wits and hax! Like Barragan vs Askin!
The only way Isshin would've had a chance is if Aizen was exhausted like he was and then used bankai. He was exhausted in the canon which is why he used the Hogyoku transformations. But without them he would've had just his bankai. But given how powerful Aizen's shikai was, his bankai is surely something insane. But if Isshin beats that, then he would take down Aizen especially if Urahara and Yoruchi would arrive just after that.
Ishin knew of the Final Getsuga Tensho before they ever went into the Dongai. Its quite possible Ishin could have obliterated Aizen if he had used it. He knew of it, so he must have seen it or was somehow aware he could use it and Ichigo as well.
9:45 Kyoka Suigetsu, I believe, was stated to use a lot of reiatsu which we dont know how long hes been using it but we will atleast say since he Betrayed Harribel coupled with the fact that he just took down the entire Gotei and sustained injuries in the process .
Using here it would probably fail after sometime and he needs to conserve as much strength as possible till the hogyoku awakens.
Bro is using it from atleast 100 to 500 years if my memories serve right
Aizen wasnt putting in the effort he would have had he not known the hogyoku was present within him
Not to mention in transformation process
I always assumed that Aizen in his base soul reaper form was an higher tier captain but not quite top tier, i definitely believe that he was weaker than the likes of Shinsui or Jushiro without his Kyoka Suigetsu. The main reason he stomped the whole gotei was the fact that they were under its influence.
Isshin appears to be a higher tier captain like Shunsui and Jushiro and it does in fact appear that he is not under the influence of Kyoka Suigetsu so it makes sense that he would be really able to defeat Aizen.
As to why Aizen does not use his shikai, he either wanted to test his soul reaper limits or he acknowledged that Isshin knows his shikai at this point and is probably able to counter it in some way.
I’m presuming that maybe as the hogyoku was prepping it took a toll on aizen slowing him down, Ishin probably also had an unconventional fighting style compared to the shinigami aizen was used to
I think many higher ranked shinigami are a bigger threat to (shinigami) Aizen than it would seem but his zanpakuto is so broken that this only applies if he's lacking it.
The insane part was isshin being so physically imposing without using shikai or bankai.
Also, we know from Mashiro's fight that going up against stronger opponents than usual can exhaust you, even if you are rather handily beating opponents up until then. So even though he handily fought off most of the gotei including Yamamoto, it surely taxed his resources at least somewhat
I'd make the argument a good portion of Ichigo's power came from Isshin, given what we see at the end of the series when he gets his true Zangetsu
White was obviously incredibly powerful, yet Isshin would've won imo if he wasn't injured right off the bat, and White merged with Isshin's shinigami powers while they were both bound to Masaki and then to Ichigo by proxy (in Isshin's case)
It's pretty obvious that Ichigo's shinigami and hollow powers are the majority of his power given both the size of his swords compared to each other once they're reforged, and the fact that he chooses White (Zangetsu) over his Quincy powers to challenge Yhwach, even though technically Yhwach should be able to steal his shinigami/hollow powers and not just his Quincy powers (Sankt Altar can steal shinigami powers as shown in Yhwach's fight with Ichibe, and the fact the Bankai stealing medallions use the same method as Sankt Altar)
Also its just speculation on my part but I've seen people say that Yhwach can't steal Ichigo's shinigami powers because of his hollow powers, although I'd completely disagree considering Soul King candidates must have at least some hollow in them, and the original Soul King is stated to be a hybrid of Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy (and by extension human)
dont forget also he stopped the stuff in the dungai world after his wounds and his fight with aizen :)
I think a key thought experiment would be to hypothetically compare Byakuya to Isshin.
They are both high ranking members of the noble families. If they are deemed comparable, then the question of Byakuya vs Aizen should be asked. That in itself would grant a degree of like for like comparison.
Maybe post royal guard byakuya, but I still don't see him going toe to toe with Aizen in base, but byakuya certainly has the potential
I more so subscribe to the 3 tiers of Captians.
1. Entry: Vice Captians with Bankai to newer captians need Bankai to get stuff done
2. Mid: balanced skill set probably still needs Bankai to fight previous level but will own them.
3. Masters: they have mastered their primary skill sets, and they fight tier 1 threats without Bankai.
Looking at the soul society arc Gotei 13 your senior captians are masters. Byakuya, Gin and you could argue Kenpatchi are Mid captians. Everyone else but Aizen is at various levels of Entry, they don't have the raw power or diversified skill set yet.
@abbamalami9171 Post Royal Guard Byakuya, and unleashed Kenpatchi are comparable to Kyoraku... they basically slide in to where Unahana, and Utakaki in the general power structure of the Soul Society during the Soul Society Arc. I would argue Toshiro (non-adult form) equates to where Byakuya or Gin was during that particular arc.
I think Aizen either was in the same ball park as the Senior captians during Soul Society Arc or was on the cusp of it ahead of the tier I would place the other two in.
I do think if we limit what we know about both characters at this moment in time when the manga chapter was released, Isshin "could" win. I am sure I am way off as we know so much more from lite novels and info that has been clarified over time though. But from what little of both these characters was known at the time and what we could deduce from how the zanpakuto work, I do think there is enough to reason that the fight was fairly equal in which case only some circumstances would decide the fight. To my knowledge even now we don't know if Aizen could affect Isshin with his shikai. Even if he could he either chooses not to, or isn't able to and he had already stopped using it completely at this point all the way until he is sealed. So for this conversation, it plays no part. Looking at how some of the sword releases work that we see at this point, some characters shikai's seems not to effect the physical prowess at all. I would put characters like Shinji, Momo, Aizen and Hachi among others in this statement. When it comes down to it every single attack Aizen has landed against any Shinigami has done almost nothing in terms of taking out the fight. Almost all of which were hits landed via his shikai, which implies that the target was unable to defend themselves. I personally don't think Aizen is even in the top 10 of shinigami in terms of physical strength and durability at this time. Which could give an advantage to some because of that. Ichigo is one of the few that only deal damage in a very direct way and has the reiatsu to overwhelm him. The few hits we see Aizen actually take are from attacks. Most deaths we do see in the series are a result of some form of a physical hit, being cut in half or simply striking a vital spot. Mind ya I do think the fight plays out as it should. I do think Isshin does have a strong chance to win as well as other characters that have abilities that Aizen's shikai simply would not work as well on. Specifically character like Yama as his shikai and bankai affects would still have an impact even under Aizen's shikai ability. Those global type attacks that have a range and not need a specific target might still inflict damage. I do also think seeing how Aizen's transformation takes place after he took the hits from Isshin and the others during that fight, may have been on purpose to progress the transformation. Every instance we say him evolve it was after some form of serious damage. In any case, this is just fun to think about and everyone is going to see it a little different. I think just about everyone is happy with how this battle plays out as we know it.
Isshin - ‘nah i had win’
Aizen - ‘yare yare’
Could Isshin be more powerfull then other captains due to him having learned or attempted to learn his own Final Getsuga? He vaguely says that their Zanpakuto don't want to teach them the technique not that his didn't. Perhaps the process can make a shinigami more powerfull simply by them learning this technique and becoming closer to their Zanpakuto and this is what alowed Isshin to push Aizen as much as he did.
I always felt that Isshin was so strong here because he hadn’t had access to his shinigami powers for so long that his reiatsu had been storing up. So when he finally uses his abilities again they were heavily boosted. Because if Isshin was near Aizen in strength, he’d have been a legend in the Soul Society
Kubo should have made Isshin a former member of the Royal Guard. It made no sense for Isshin to be strong enough to fight Aizen one on one when someone as strong as Shunsui couldn’t come close to doing that and Shunsui is a top tier Captain.
I think it's less about Kyoraku not being able to win and more about him already being under the spell of Kyoka Suigetsu. That ability is just bananas.
If you had 'em go at it with just blades and Kido, Shunsui probably has a respectable shot against Aizen.
@@vileluca Aizen’s fight with the Captains was clearly meant to illustrate that he was stronger than all of them combined even without Kyoka Suigetsu. That’s why Gin had that monologue about how the Espada would never have followed Aizen if he just relied on Kyoka Suigetsu. He really is strong enough to negate Soifon’s Shikai. He really is strong enough to blitz Shunsui, Toshiro, Shinji and Soifon at the same time.
Royal Guard requires some contribution to the Soul Society as a whole, like the Zanpaktou or Gigai. He works fine as a lazy noble since Shinigami from the noble houses have been shown to be naturally stronger than average
@@SunlightGwynI think it's naive to assume Aizen isn't using Suigetsu at all times against people who are ensnared with it. Especially if he boasts that he's not doing so.
That's not to say he doesn't have immense power and can overshadow children like Soi Fon and Toshiro.
Fresh fighter V.S. Tired fighter
You have to remember Aizen only fought the captians after they fought the Arancar... Aside from Yamamoto, they were all injured and tired.
Then Yamamoto fought Aizen before Isshin started fighting him.