Thanks Jeff. Appreciate the advice sir. We did backfill the lagging but didn’t get any footage. Headed up next week to fill in the space above the back. I told my helpers “Come on, let’s go!” And, strangely, that worked. 😉
Looks like a home made ore cart on Card axles and frame. Is it a little tipsy when loaded? That tin siding will help with water but not much else. State and Federal (mostly state) DOT departments are constantly replacing bent guard rail. If you contact the contractor doing the project they are usually willing to sell you the bent guard rail for a reasonable price. They usually come in 20' sections and not all of that 20 feet is usually bent or not bent much. Putting guard rail, especially on the top of your timbers, will carry more load and prevent damage from a rock fall. You can ship the guard rail grove over grove to channel the water away from the timber with an overhang in front if you have long enough pieces. The guard rail is somewhat a PITA to work with as it is heavy and galvanized but rusts less when in place. If you are interested in more of a bomb proof portal you can take W flange I beams that are wide enough to accept a section of guard rail between the flanges. Cut the guard rail in 4' long sections, stand the first set and loose stand the second set. Slide the guard rail sections between the flanges on both sets on the sides then move the second set into place and hold together with 2 steel rods with threaded ends or one end threaded and the other with a stop welded on the end. The rods will slide down one of the groves in the guard rail and cut or burn holes in the I beam flange to run the rods through. Bolt down tight keeping the legs level. Cut the I beam legs with a slight taper from top outward to the bottom. Weld plates top and bottom of the legs and weld plates on the bottoms of the cross beams. Pre drill holes in the top leg plates and the cross pieces to bolt the cross beam to the legs. Lag the top of the cross beams with long pieces of guard rail that spans at least 3 sections overlapping the guard rail at least 1 grove. Don't put the legs on the floor without a bottom plate and do not cut the bottom plate off if it doesn't fit level on the floor. Adjust the rock not the foot of the I beam to make the cross piece level. This method is a 2-3 man operation but if you do it right it will last for many years. If you are interested in learning or just reading about simple small mines The Montana Bureau of Mines had Koehler S. Stout write a couple of reports and published them for small miners to help them with costs in reopening small mines. I think that the best one was Operating Ideas for Small Mines by Koehler S. Stout. The reports were written to highlight mining techniques and practices that were used in the 30's and early 40's as simple low cost mining practices that actually worked. After WW2 the increased labor costs shut down many small mines which were producing before the war.
That’s a really great idea with the guard rail. I’ll try that next time. Also, the ore cart came from a mining supply company in Wallace, Idaho. It still has the tag riveted in! Thanks again for the pointers.
@@packratmining Been to Northwest Mine supply several times. Most of the time the parts are shipped, somethings just will not fit in a box or on a pallet. Another other thing that the guard rail is good for is spiling in bad ground. Depending on what you have to drive with, a small mucker such as a JCI 125M, you can drive 2 ea 2" pipes ahead of the last set spaced at the guard rail groves then drive the guard rail along the top of the pipes ahead 4 feet and catch the tails under the second to last set to help hold back the loose top. Dig fast and have the next set ready to put under the pipes and guard rail before you loose what you gained. You need to get at least 4 sections of guard rail out in front of you before you dig. Sometimes you only get 1-2 feet at a time. Depending on the ground it can be faster and easier than driving 2" pipe skin to skin. The down side is that if there is a lot of rock to drive through the guard rail can bend downward making it weaker. In really bad ground if you can get the two pipes in then the guard rail finish up by pushing in more 2" pipes in all of the groves that go up toward the top You can make holes in the guard rail and use it the same as rock bolt plates or you can rock bolt it to the walls for bumpers for tippy ore cars on corners.
@@thinkfirst6431. Tried to stop by there earlier in the year on the way to Yellowstone. Wanted to snag a few scaling bars. Of course, that was the day they were closed.
@@thinkfirst6431 I like the guardrail idea for portals; fortunately our ground is excellent and doesn't truly require support. We just throw a few split sets into bacon strips and that does it. Our portal's lagging is perforated steel runway panels from the Vietnam era, wrapped around structural steel that I believe came from an old bridge. I've also seen well pipe sections used around an arched steel portal at another nearby mine; that one also has a headframe built out of steel from a bowling alley. You know, I've run a JCI 125M and I honestly prefer an EIMCO 911B, especially when loading trucks. Cockpit ergonomics and size are better on the EIMCO too, but the JCI puts down more power. You just learn to sit at an angle for long trams in reverse.
@@Porty1119 We also use the guard rail with something like a w4-13 heavy flange I beam when working through bad or loose ground. Stand a set in good ground, muck forward or stand 2 sets in good ground and spile forward then muck. Loose stand the next set, fill the sides with guard rail standing on its side and guard rail over the top. tighten the sets with 2 bolts run through 2 of the groves. It works better if the top is not caving down on you while you work. I just used the JCI as an example of the size of the machine that might fit in a small mine. Not many people have seen a M50 and they are very tippy unless you are very careful. I do not really fit in any of the small muckers or the large ones for that matter so it was a bad day if I had to muck.
Are you guys going to D-bolt or back-rock that slip face? It would seem that if you could strategically stack some of those boulders there at the opening on top of your entry, you could drastically reduce the speed and volume of the slump of the slip face. One thing I have done in the past, is before back filling such a large area, is to get a bunch of old thrown out carpet [many flooring stores will literally give you all you can haul off] and with some long bolts [you could, to some extent, drive in rebar as a form of pin, using a rock hammer], pin it to the soil wall, and then pack in the big rocks, and follow with some smaller stuff to fill in the gaps. While yes, carpet has a limited life span, especially when exposed to nature, 2 things in your favor are 1, the rocks on the outside keep it from being excessively exposed to sunlight [the chief destroyer of old used carpet], and 2, tree roots will naturally grow into it, making it stronger while it lasts, and, at the very same time, gradually replace it with their selves. Another thing is that if there is some 'breathing' on the outer face of the carpet, this will allow it to stay dryer, which will help extend its life. Typically, its free, and while its not easy to install [at least not by any normal means], it can last upwards of 20 years, especially the 'stain guard' types. The use of many overlapping layers makes a super tough, highly erosion resistant face, which, with the help of the rocks outside of it, will greatly reduce soil fall from the slip face. Being a fabric, also, it will allow hydrostatic pressure to dissipate, which will allow the ground to remain below its saturation range except in major flooding. And if that is not comfy enough, one can use a box knife and cut some holes in it, then drive a large rock drill in some goodly depth, and insert some PVC drains to further defend against water saturation. This will also help keep the inside of the mine drier as it will dry out the hill above a few percentage points.
That’s an actually a really good idea. I can say we had some serious thunderstorms a few weeks after this project. Several large rocks came down and mostly filled in that gap. We’re close to being snowed out for the winter but that gives me several months to scrounge up some carpet. Thanks for the idea.
don't forget to back fill around the lagging and crib the top ....no open spaces between lagging and rock face....
Thanks Jeff. Appreciate the advice sir. We did backfill the lagging but didn’t get any footage. Headed up next week to fill in the space above the back. I told my helpers “Come on, let’s go!” And, strangely, that worked. 😉
Great job all around fam. Keep at it. Gold Squad Out 🤠
Finally some narration to these pack rat mining videos. Much better.
Looks like a home made ore cart on Card axles and frame. Is it a little tipsy when loaded?
That tin siding will help with water but not much else. State and Federal (mostly state) DOT departments are constantly replacing bent guard rail. If you contact the contractor doing the project they are usually willing to sell you the bent guard rail for a reasonable price. They usually come in 20' sections and not all of that 20 feet is usually bent or not bent much. Putting guard rail, especially on the top of your timbers, will carry more load and prevent damage from a rock fall. You can ship the guard rail grove over grove to channel the water away from the timber with an overhang in front if you have long enough pieces. The guard rail is somewhat a PITA to work with as it is heavy and galvanized but rusts less when in place.
If you are interested in more of a bomb proof portal you can take W flange I beams that are wide enough to accept a section of guard rail between the flanges. Cut the guard rail in 4' long sections, stand the first set and loose stand the second set. Slide the guard rail sections between the flanges on both sets on the sides then move the second set into place and hold together with 2 steel rods with threaded ends or one end threaded and the other with a stop welded on the end. The rods will slide down one of the groves in the guard rail and cut or burn holes in the I beam flange to run the rods through. Bolt down tight keeping the legs level. Cut the I beam legs with a slight taper from top outward to the bottom. Weld plates top and bottom of the legs and weld plates on the bottoms of the cross beams. Pre drill holes in the top leg plates and the cross pieces to bolt the cross beam to the legs. Lag the top of the cross beams with long pieces of guard rail that spans at least 3 sections overlapping the guard rail at least 1 grove. Don't put the legs on the floor without a bottom plate and do not cut the bottom plate off if it doesn't fit level on the floor. Adjust the rock not the foot of the I beam to make the cross piece level. This method is a 2-3 man operation but if you do it right it will last for many years.
If you are interested in learning or just reading about simple small mines The Montana Bureau of Mines had Koehler S. Stout write a couple of reports and published them for small miners to help them with costs in reopening small mines. I think that the best one was Operating Ideas for Small Mines by Koehler S. Stout. The reports were written to highlight mining techniques and practices that were used in the 30's and early 40's as simple low cost mining practices that actually worked. After WW2 the increased labor costs shut down many small mines which were producing before the war.
That’s a really great idea with the guard rail. I’ll try that next time. Also, the ore cart came from a mining supply company in Wallace, Idaho. It still has the tag riveted in!
Thanks again for the pointers.
@@packratmining
Been to Northwest Mine supply several times. Most of the time the parts are shipped, somethings just will not fit in a box or on a pallet.
Another other thing that the guard rail is good for is spiling in bad ground. Depending on what you have to drive with, a small mucker such as a JCI 125M, you can drive 2 ea 2" pipes ahead of the last set spaced at the guard rail groves then drive the guard rail along the top of the pipes ahead 4 feet and catch the tails under the second to last set to help hold back the loose top. Dig fast and have the next set ready to put under the pipes and guard rail before you loose what you gained. You need to get at least 4 sections of guard rail out in front of you before you dig. Sometimes you only get 1-2 feet at a time. Depending on the ground it can be faster and easier than driving 2" pipe skin to skin. The down side is that if there is a lot of rock to drive through the guard rail can bend downward making it weaker. In really bad ground if you can get the two pipes in then the guard rail finish up by pushing in more 2" pipes in all of the groves that go up toward the top
You can make holes in the guard rail and use it the same as rock bolt plates or you can rock bolt it to the walls for bumpers for tippy ore cars on corners.
@@thinkfirst6431. Tried to stop by there earlier in the year on the way to Yellowstone. Wanted to snag a few scaling bars. Of course, that was the day they were closed.
@@thinkfirst6431 I like the guardrail idea for portals; fortunately our ground is excellent and doesn't truly require support. We just throw a few split sets into bacon strips and that does it. Our portal's lagging is perforated steel runway panels from the Vietnam era, wrapped around structural steel that I believe came from an old bridge. I've also seen well pipe sections used around an arched steel portal at another nearby mine; that one also has a headframe built out of steel from a bowling alley.
You know, I've run a JCI 125M and I honestly prefer an EIMCO 911B, especially when loading trucks. Cockpit ergonomics and size are better on the EIMCO too, but the JCI puts down more power. You just learn to sit at an angle for long trams in reverse.
@@Porty1119
We also use the guard rail with something like a w4-13 heavy flange I beam when working through bad or loose ground. Stand a set in good ground, muck forward or stand 2 sets in good ground and spile forward then muck. Loose stand the next set, fill the sides with guard rail standing on its side and guard rail over the top. tighten the sets with 2 bolts run through 2 of the groves. It works better if the top is not caving down on you while you work.
I just used the JCI as an example of the size of the machine that might fit in a small mine. Not many people have seen a M50 and they are very tippy unless you are very careful. I do not really fit in any of the small muckers or the large ones for that matter so it was a bad day if I had to muck.
Are you guys going to D-bolt or back-rock that slip face?
It would seem that if you could strategically stack some of those boulders there at the opening on top of your entry, you could drastically reduce the speed and volume of the slump of the slip face.
One thing I have done in the past, is before back filling such a large area, is to get a bunch of old thrown out carpet [many flooring stores will literally give you all you can haul off] and with some long bolts [you could, to some extent, drive in rebar as a form of pin, using a rock hammer], pin it to the soil wall, and then pack in the big rocks, and follow with some smaller stuff to fill in the gaps.
While yes, carpet has a limited life span, especially when exposed to nature, 2 things in your favor are 1, the rocks on the outside keep it from being excessively exposed to sunlight [the chief destroyer of old used carpet], and 2, tree roots will naturally grow into it, making it stronger while it lasts, and, at the very same time, gradually replace it with their selves.
Another thing is that if there is some 'breathing' on the outer face of the carpet, this will allow it to stay dryer, which will help extend its life.
Typically, its free, and while its not easy to install [at least not by any normal means], it can last upwards of 20 years, especially the 'stain guard' types.
The use of many overlapping layers makes a super tough, highly erosion resistant face, which, with the help of the rocks outside of it, will greatly reduce soil fall from the slip face.
Being a fabric, also, it will allow hydrostatic pressure to dissipate, which will allow the ground to remain below its saturation range except in major flooding.
And if that is not comfy enough, one can use a box knife and cut some holes in it, then drive a large rock drill in some goodly depth, and insert some PVC drains to further defend against water saturation.
This will also help keep the inside of the mine drier as it will dry out the hill above a few percentage points.
That’s an actually a really good idea. I can say we had some serious thunderstorms a few weeks after this project. Several large rocks came down and mostly filled in that gap.
We’re close to being snowed out for the winter but that gives me several months to scrounge up some carpet. Thanks for the idea.
So come on Let's Go with some more videos after the snow season. Plz and Thx. 💯 Awesome u guys are doing this. 👀 Thx for sharing.
Excellent work guys! (~_^)-b
Nice video, any more coming this season?
@@larrykluckoutdoors8227 I have another one up my sleeve. Maybe in a few weeks?
Did you buy your Sany mini direct from China, or local?
How much did you pay?
I bought it from a local dealer. And I think it was around 28k. I’ve had it for a few years now and it’s been perfect. Not a single hiccup.