Sunsynk, Eddi, Zappi and Viridian: Introducing a complex solar/battery installation... from scratch!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 мар 2023
- Whether you know nothing about solar power, or you are thinking about installing something more sophisticated, I hope this will bring you up to speed on the concepts and give you some ideas to consider! For more information, see statusq.org/archives/2023/03/... .
My thanks to Brett, Rett and Matt from Huttie, who did the main installation, and Phil Ryder and his team who did the roofing work. 
Наука
Sunsynk should contract you to do their training videos, you have a wonderful clear voice and the way you explain everything is clear. Well done
You're too kind. I'm available for hire 🙂
Great Video, installed many Sunsynk Inverters, all sizes in Cape Town South Africa. Not one issue. Very good Inverter.
Thank you for such a thorough over view and clear run through . Lots to think about there
I am from South-Africa. Sunsynk is massive here. I myself have one, also 8kw unit. Think units are bit different, as we have dedicated Gen port, aux port and then essential and non essential. Awesome video.
Very interesting, clear and (unusually) accurate information. Thanks.
Excellent insite into your setup and basically exactly as I intend to do in the next few months.
It was interesting to hear about the serial-parallel module setup enabling conpleince with the voltage requirements of the inverter and providing good kw output.
I enjoyed your explanation.
Thank you.
Ningbo Deye Inverter Technology Co., Ltd. (Deye) manufactures Sunsynk inverters. (Deye) manufactures the SunSynk Inverters, hence the likeness in appearance and the inverters' near identical parameters. Similarly, you may have seen the black Fusion Hybrid Inverters in circulation, which are rebranded Deye
This is such a well explained video. I have the same system but smaller and I am learning a fair bit.
Hi Quentin. Nice installation Glad your system is up and running. I also have 20kw of sunsysnk batteries I bet your installers had a few choice words getting them in the loft, nice to see you have some unistut supporting them 👍
Great video it’s really nice for you to give an insight in to your solar system thanks
i have a similar system on a bit smaller scale , 6.24 kw of panels 10kwh of battery storage with another one being fitted next week taking it to 15 kwh and an eddi for heating the hot water but no electric car at the moment so no zappi , i have had a couple of power cuts since this was installed and love it when you don't even realise it's happened until the app tells you your off grid, amazing systems love the video
Hello Quentin, very good video. I only came across Sunsynk two days ago. So I will be very interested in following videos. I live in Ireland
At the moment I am looking at different systems. So far there are not many installers fitting Sunsynk systems over here I will be following your future videos with a lot of interest. Thank you for the information I have learnt from your video. Tom.
Great video thanks
Good video nice little setup
Wow, one of the finest explanations I have seen on RUclips. I also have an 8K Sunsynk with 5 x Pylontech US5000's. Installation was a breeze , functionality and configuration for different scenarios is excellent. Sunsynk are a quite underrated piece of kit. I have my batteries in the garage (concerned regarding the 200kg plus weight in the loft). Did you have to reinforce the loft rafters at all? 👍😊
Thanks! Glad you like it.
No, we didn't reinforce the rafters, but, despite appearances, the battery cabinet isn't actually resting on the floor. It's bolted to three big brackets which are themselves bolted to the cement-block wall.
Best,
Quentin
This is the exact setup that I am looking for, would you be kind enough to advise our your installers please?
You are so Lucky. I have just had 8k Sunsynk and 4 x Pylontech US5000's installed 11 days ago, but the inverter cannot talk to the battery and Installers are new to Sunsynk so are at a loss. Add that they have no idea how to connect Sunsynk up for UPS mode either which was a key reason I wished to have the Sunsynk inverter especially after watching this excellent and well explained youtube video. (Thank you Quentin! :) )
Great video - we need more related videos 😊
Thank you so much for putting this video together and the video of your sunsynk solar system working with zappi. we have been considering doing exactly the same thing with zappi, sunsynk, and pylontech, and also "over-engineering" by taking advantage of the load shedding and "UPS" features of the sunsynk.
with reference to export tarrifs, octopus flux now has a reasonable export payback - have you looked at octopus flux or octopus intelligent to see how they might change your views on solar consumption?
nice to see someone else who is using home-assistant. we also work in tech, for a company that used to be part of ARM in Cambridge. small world!
who was your installer?
Hi Philip - Yes, I'm looking at other export tariffs, but Octopus Go does work rather well for us so I'm hoping to find something compatible with that.
Our installation was done by Huttie.com.
Just had the exact solution fitted and I am very happy with it. I'm only 4 days in but starting to monitor generation and use. I will then look at moving from the dual rate tariff to the Agile tariff depending on whether it's worth it. I Would love to know what factors cause folks to switch to the Agile tariff.
Quentin Stafford-Fraser... isn't this the guy who made the Wimbledon tennis semi-final in 1983?
Very Good video
Keith should get this guy to do all his videos, it is very difficult to watch Keith, he sure has all the knowledge but he should not do training videos, he is very difficult to follow, nothing against Keith think he is a great guy, but outsource the training videos to someone like this.
Hi Quentin, Another very interesting video - thank you. Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of the main installation, say panels, inverter and batteries please? Or what is your expected payoff period based for the system?
Hi William - I won't go into details just at the moment, but I might make another video about it in due course.
The payback period is hard to guess; it'll depend on future energy prices, and on how efficiently I manage both to capture sunshine and to use cheap-rate electricity, and so on... most of which only time will allow me to tell! It was, of course, also more expensive than some comparable systems because of using in-roof panels, which can save money if you're installing them on a new-build house, but add to the cost if you're retro-fitting them on an older one.
I'm assuming the payback will probably be around 15 years, but it's also quite likely we will have moved by then, so the other question is what difference it might make to the value of the house!
Hi Quentin thanks for a very informative video. I have a similar setup with Victron but it’s essentially the same. I’d be interested to know the thinking behind the loop connection on the DC wiring on your batteries. With that configuration the drain on the top and bottom batteries is higher than the middle two. You probably don’t notice as the batteries will balance themselves but it’s less efficient. You’d be better off removing the links between the middle two batteries and repositioning the plus and minus leads to keep equal cable lengths.
Hi James - thanks! Ah, I'm interested in your suggestion, though. The installer did this, presumably with the idea that it's best to keep all resistances as low as possible by having a kind of bus-bar of short connections between the batteries, and doubling-up the connections at the ends of the bus.
But I can see the logic of your suggestion: in this arrangement the middle two batteries always have a bit more resistance than the outer two. So I think you're suggesting that, say, one positive lead goes to battery 1 with a short connector to battery 2, while the negative goes to 2 with a short lead to 1. So in the overall circuit, they each have the same total resistance. That makes sense.
On the other hand, at present each battery's total resistance comes from the parallel connections at the top and bottom of the stack. As you move downwards, the resistance at the top becomes higher but the one at the bottom becomes lower, and no, I haven't done the maths to work out whether there's enough of a difference to be significant!
But if you or others have, and this is generally best practice, I'm happy to adjust mine - thanks!
Hi Quentin, great video. What’s the grid passthrough on the Aux output (50A on the load output iirc)?
I don't actually know what the relays will handle. I have a 40A breaker on everything going INTO the inverter, so that's my max, in normal use, for all the loads that could be battery-backed in the event of an outage. Since the video, I've moved the immersion heater off the Aux output, so I can't heat the water during a power cut, but our normal water-heating is gas anyway. Once that, and the car charger, and the oven, are excluded, it's unlikely I'd get to 10kW 🙂
Hi, very interesting. I have just had an almost identical system but in the garage. I have a Zappi for the ev but the hot water is fed from the auxiliary on the SunSynk 8.8kw inverter. Couple of question; what make is your battery stacking cabinet. I got a different make, perhaps we could compare. Second I am unable at the moment to get my solar reading on the Zappi app as I have been told there is a conflict between the DC and the Zappi CT only reads AC and I guess there will be the same issue on the battery. I think I must be more OCD than you as I have also had an 16 amp industrial outside outlet to be fed by a generator into a change over switch so that it can not go through to the grid. That has its own complications as the contractor would only install an outside industrial socket, not a plug and of course the lead to the generator also has has a plug so you end up with what the Americans call a suicide lead, plug to plug, so even though not used as yet I have connected a double pole neon switch in the lead so it will not automatically allow the power through. Any other ideas would be helpful. This is all very exciting as more and more people will be having similar ideas
Hi Mike - I forget the make of rack and I can't easily go up and check right now... but it's a fairly standard 12U rack from my installer's default supplier. 12U turned out to be a bit tight: the shelves had a bit of a lip on the front and there wasn't room to get the batteries in over the lip and still fit them in the vertical height available, so they had to remove the lip with an angle grinder! If I were doing it again, I'd go for a 15U rack.
I see your problem with the suicide lead... but I guess you'd have had a suicide plug on the wall if you'd gone the other way!
Great video and presentation. I am in the process of install a similar system albeit (Sunsynk 8kw inverter and 3 batteries(Catl). Wanted to ask you your experience with noise from the inverter . Is it audible/loud? Will it be OK in a utility room/ electric cupboard with door shut. Thank you.
Well, when I'm standing next to the inverter and the fan kicks in, it is fairly loud. But mine's in the attic and I don't hear it in the room below.
I think you would be fine, but you might not want it in a cupboard next to a bedroom if it's going to be charging/discharging at night.
Actually, a 'cupboard' would probably not be a good place unless it's a well-ventilated or air-conditioned one, anyway... :-)
Many thanks.
Hello again Quentin - I really like this video as you explain very well. One thing though that I would like to know a little bit more about is the neutral - earth bond set up. I think this is only activated when you are in the island mode due to blackout but I was wondering how you achieved this as I am looking for a contactor that is rated at about 63A and operates on 240v so I can use 16mm cable (if the device accepts this cable size) to short out neutral and earth in the same mode. I have the sunsynk max so I believe I have a volt free contact to play with and on your model you maybe had a 240v output available when the bond needs to be made. Any information so I can complete my thought cycle would be great.
Hi Peter, I run 2x 8kw Sunsynk inverters in parallel and use an 80a Tracon contactor for N-G bonding. Model EVOHK 2-80. Bought in the UK from Poland or Czech, I forget now.
Thanks for the info ANTON but I will be using a contractor with N/C contacts. If I could find one with 3 N/C and 1 N/O it would be perfect. @@antondelalaneagain9515
Hi Peter - sorry, I've been away from home for a few days.
This is one bit that the installers did with minimal involvement from me and I don't even know exactly which device they used; it's tucked away in an enclosure that I haven't yet opened! Will try to get up in the loft soon and take a look!
It's OK Quentin. I believe your system is different to the Sunsynkmax. Thank you anyway and greetings from Clippesby, Norfolk.@@quentinsf
Thank yoy
Hi Quentin, I have a similar but smaller system to you Sunsynk 5kW inverter 10kWh battery and Zappi. I was very interested to hear you integrated your systems into Home Assistant. I have just setup HA and am puzzling how to do such an integration. Do you have a video on this?
Hi Steve - Not really, I'm afraid! You probably want to talk to the inverter using the RS485 port on the bottom, and one way is to connect that to your home assistant box... but mine are rather far apart! I believe there's a HA plugin to talk to the inverter if you manage it, though. You can get little ethernet adapters which will extend the RS485/modbus interface over the network, and that's probably a good way to go, in general.
In my case, I bought a copy of Solar Assistant, which I run on an old Raspberry Pi plugged into the inverter. Solar Assistant is very nice, and includes an MQTT broker. You can either tell HA to talk to that, or, if you have your own MQTT broker already, you can bridge it to the Solar Assistant one. The details are on the site at solar-assistant.io . I'm very happy with this setup, but it does involve the cost of a Pi, plus Solar Assistant (about $50).
If you haven't seen my other video focusing on the Zappi, that might be of interest too: ruclips.net/video/vtbuFELMd2g/видео.html
Best,
Quentin
Hi,I have similar set up sunsynk batteries and a zappi, but without an eddi, have you managed to get the zappi to charge on ECO++ with just enough excess power and the batteries not full. Just had the system fitted and the plan was to charge batteries to 80% ish, trickle charge the batteries if not enough to charge the car, then have the car charge when there's enough excess for the zappi.
Hi Richard - if I understand your question, then mine doesn't work that way; it only exports solar to the charger when the house batteries are full.
If you haven't seen them, these might be useful:
ruclips.net/video/iyPyXfsN6w0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/vtbuFELMd2g/видео.html
All the best,
Quentin
@@quentinsf mine only export when batteries are full, I was hoping for the best of both world, solar to batteries and solar to car when enough.
@@richardwagner1420 I think doing them simultaneously might be tricky with the sunsynk. The Zappi would probably need a CT clamp on the battery-charging, which you can't do with a hybrid inverter because the charging circuitry is all DC.
Hi Q, great video explanation.
Im was looking around for a solar installation and have found there is a sunsynk installer very nearby to me.
Having done a bit of research, it seems to me that sunsynk is a very capable system at a very competitive price.
I do have a few questions which i have tried to find answers online but to no avail.
So just wondering if you could answer my questions as you have first hand experience with your system.
Firstly, with your setup, you have 4 x 5kw batteries. From what i have read online i am under the impression that for one battery the continuous charge and discharge is 2.5kw. As you cant run many appliances together with only 2.5kw, i was interested in knowing what continuous discharge you have with 4 batteries connected. Also, with 8kw of solar, how much are you able to continuously charge the batteries?
Secondly, you said in the video that if tesla ever went bump, then there would be no monitoring available as its all done through the cloud. How does the sunsynk differ? Also, to make most use of the whole system, realtime monitoring is needed. Givenegy allow a local wifi conection to the inverter and i think the app provides live information like every 5 to 10 secs, which i think is very usefu,l, as it allows you to identify how you are using energy from the solar panels, battery or grid. Does the sunsynk app allow you to do the same. If not, do you know if this is possible with home assistant, as you seem to be using that too?
Would really appreciate any light you could shed to my questions. Thanks in advance👍
Hi Ranjit - sorry for the delayed response....
Yes, batteries have a C-rating which is the ratio of how much charge they can provide in an hour as a fraction of their total storage. The Sunsynk ones I have are 0.5C, which means, as you suggest, that a 5kWh battery can provide 2.5kW. I have four batteries, so could in theory charge and discharge at 10kW, but in practice I'm limited by the 8kW inverter.
I may be wrong about Tesla not having local monitoring, BTW. The Sunsynk app is good, but I think also dependent on their servers. However, the inverter also has an RS485 connection, and I have a Raspberry Pi connected to that; in my case I run the very good Solar Assistant software ($50) which gives lots of information in real time, and there are other open source packages which can do the same. My data is fed into Home Assistant via MQTT from Solar Assistant, but there are Home Assistant packages which can connect directly. I didn't go that route because I didn't want to run a long RS485 cable from the inverter to my Home Assistant box, though it turns out that you can get RS485-over-ethernet adapters which would have been an option.
Hope this helps a bit!
@@quentinsf Thanks for taking the time to reply. The information is very useful as it allows me to understand the capabilities of the batteries and the live monitoring. Thanks again for the information.
Very similar system to what I am looking for, but I have 3-phase . . . A guy from Sunsynk told me this week that "Eddi-like" (diverter) functionality is now built in to their inverters (??) . . I'm also using Home Assistant so what you can do with that will be of great interest, thanks.
Well, if you don't use the AUX output the way I'm using it, one option is to have it power an immersion heater when you have excess solar. Last time I looked, though, this was just an on/off switch. The great thing about the Eddi is that, if you have 500W spare, it can use just that much, even if your immersion heater is a 3kW one. It's possible Sunsynk may have something along those lines now?
Great video I’m thinking of getting a similar setup can I ask what company you used for the installation
Sorry for the delay! A local company called Huttie (huttie.com). They have some real challenges with timely communication sometimes, but the work is very good.
Quite a nice setup and I like the arrangement. Do you know if a system like the Givenergy with a Gateway could do the same job(s)? Cheers, Bert.
Should be close, I should think. That looks nice: it wasn't an option when I got mine. They're clearly competing with the Powerwall in battery size etc.
@@quentinsf cheers thanks and I certainly will explore Sunsink.
Hi Quentin, That's a lovely system. I have a Sunsynk system with 3 Sunsynk ip65 batteries in parallel. I'm curious to know what your charge and discharge currents are. Also, what your grid charge current is?
Thanks👍
Hi James - my charge current limit is 32A (it's an 8kW inverter, so 240x32 is about right). And the discharge limit is set to 200A (which is approx 10kW at approx 50V).
I haven't tweaked these - they were set by the installer. I think the 200A discharge number comes from the fact that the batteries are rated at 0.5C - their maximum discharge rate per hour is half of their capacity. I have 20kWh, so the batteries can discharge 10kW, though the inverter couldn't quite convert all of that.
Best,
Q
@@quentinsf Thanks Quentin, that's a big help.
Am i right in seeing that the CT clamp for the myenergi is clamped onto the Neutral cable? Isn't it supposed to be on the live?
Ah, well spotted! It's actually fine, as long as you put it facing the other way. The same current should flow through both, so sometimes it's easier from a space or tidiness point of view to put it on the neutral.
If you have a 3-phase supply, it's more complicated... 🙂
Hi Quentin,very informative and interesting video. Was intrigued by the export of electricity being diverted to heat the hot water. We have a new system, only 3.2kw and no battery. The idea being to try and use most of the power generated immediately. However, on sunny days we still end up selling our electricity at 5p a unit back to the power company. Can your system make use of very small export powers. Often we are exporting 100 to 1000 watts... can the water heater make use of small power exports? Or does it need a full 3kw. Thanks. Ps any sailing vids planned?
Hi Phil - Yes, it can go down quite low; I'm not sure what a realistic minimum is, but I'm pretty sure it would work with 200W, anyway. That's the key idea I was trying to explain about it being like an automatic dimmer switch for immersion heaters; it will set the power captured to match the export (often with a small margin, which you can set, before it kicks in; I think some electricity meters get confused if you're constantly hovering around zero).
Oh, BTW, in case it's useful, if my maths is right, 1kWh will raise 100 litres of water about 8 degrees...
Oh, and in answer to your other question, I haven't been out on the water yet this year, but I'm sure there'll be more sailing videos in due course! Q
Thanks for your answer, I think we will investigate this it seems like a really good idea 👍
Can you explain how much KW does the inverter supports? I expect the minimum charge level of the batteries is set at 20%
Ours is the 8kW model, but they have various different sizes. You can change the minimum charge level of the batteries; we set ours to 10%.
Nice system love the panels but how long for payback?
A fairly long time, I fear - it's difficult to tell! We installed it just a few days before the electricity rates here tripled, and we now pay considerably smaller bills than we did on the very cheap electricity we had *before* that happened. In fact, we use almost no grid electricity, even in winter, that isn't purchased in the middle of the night at very cheap rates, and most of that is used for charging the car. So it's working nicely, but who knows what the tariffs will do over the next decade or two? Or when we might have needed work done on the roof if we hadn't just replaced most of the slates! Still, financial gain wasn't our main motivation.
We'll probably move house before it pays for itself, so we hope it will have a positive impact on the house value!
Hi Quentin, apologies if this has been asked before but could you please share a link for where you got the cabinet for your batteries from or a data sheet, many thanks
Hi Denise - I don't know the precise model, I'm afraid: it's made by Orion and came from the installer's favourite supplier so I didn't pick it out. But it's a pretty standard 19-inch 12U server rack, with door, side panels and shelves. (I have a StarTech one elsewhere in the house; also a good make.)
For a 4-battery system like this, a 12U-high rack is cutting it a bit fine: they will fit, but there's not much room for manoeuvring! (In particular, we had shelves with lips on the front and there wasn't room to lift the batteries over the lips when the batteries were only 3U apart, so the shelves had to be modified.) A 15U-high rack would have been more sensible, and/or supports which were more like side-rails than full shelves.
If you're not familiar with server racks like this, they are wonderfully robust, time-consuming to assemble, and distressingly expensive! I think mine was about £600 with all the bits.
It's worth noting that the rack isn't wall-mounted in itself: the installers bolted it onto three large brackets after these were bolted into the wall. They stood on each one and jumped up and down a bit to test it, because we knew the combination would be holding around a quarter of a tonne.
Hope that helps!
Quentin
Hi Quentin, great video. i am in the process of having a very similar install done.
One question regarding why you chose to use eddie? Does the sunsynk not already have a hotwater diverter built in?
I am curious if i need an eddie also as i have the zappi installed already.
Hi Phelim -
If you're not using the Aux output as a separate battery-backed UPS output, as I am, or a generator input, then yes, you can use it as a diverter. But it is basically an on/off switch. In the case of my immersion heater, that would be 3kW or nothing.
The advantage of the Eddi is that it's basically a giant dimmer switch! If I have 200W of excess power, it can still use that to gently warm up some water, and vary the amount as the sun goes behind clouds. Also, it can control two heating elements, so if you have a tank with two heaters in it, or a water tank and a greenhouse heater, you can control them with different priorities.
Whether all of that flexibility is worth the cost and complexity for you is, of course, a different question!
Q
Oh, and one further thought - I make a (very) brief reference to the Eddi in this video too, which might be of interest if you haven't seen it. It's mostly about car-charging.
ruclips.net/video/iyPyXfsN6w0/видео.html
Thank you very much that clarifies it for me.
Hi Quentin, I have a Sunsynk Solar battery setup currently and am about to embark into the EV world and add a Zappi charger and want to have the same as you i dont want the car charger to draw from my batteries.
Currently the supply comes into the house then out to the garage from the house main DB to where all the equipment is now i guess i have to potentially separate the garage feed to achieve this would this be correct and could you maybe advise how best to do it as per your system. Thanks Eddie
Hi Eddie - enough people have asked me this that you've inspired me to make another video:
ruclips.net/video/iyPyXfsN6w0/видео.html
:-)
Q
What size Sunsynk inverter do you have?
Excellent video btw.
?
Thanks John - this one's the 8kW model.
Q
Hi, what size inverter have you got please?
Hi Brian - mine's the 8kW version. Q
I have a sunsynk 8.8kW inverter and 4 Sunsynk 5.32Kwh batteries and have a major problem. I've set the inverter to shutdown at 0%, but when the batteries get to 10%, they shut down and everything uses grid power (even though the inverter has set it to 0%). Have you come across this problem?
No, but mine is set to shut down at 10%! Perhaps that’s a recommended minimum value? You could try the new customer support messaging facility in the recent versions of the app?
Hello Quentin - I have three points to mention. Regarding the batteries they are connected as per Sunsynk recommendation. It shows the same arrangement on page 19 of the user manual for the sunsynk Max. Secondly - I think you should have installed DC isolators between the Person unit and the inverter so you can isolate the dc in much the same way as you would the AC if you were removing the panel as the panel DC isolator would be live unless you can do something in the Person unit to disconnect the DC. Thirdly I like your battery rack - what type is it?
Hi Peter - thanks - good to know about the wiring after some of the other comments!
Yes, you're probably right about putting something between the fuse unit - I think it's called a Mersen? - and the inverter. On the one hand, you can never have too many isolators, but on the other hand every extra switch contact is a possible heat/failure point... I think what the installers did was to switch off the solar using the switch in the inverter, so no current is flowing, and then pop out the fuses in the Mersen. Haven't tried it myself...
Somebody else liked the cabinet too so here's a cut and paste from my reply to them (which is deeply nested somewhere below and not easy to find!)
Best - Quentin
---
I don't know the precise model, I'm afraid: it's made by Orion and came from the installer's favourite supplier so I didn't pick it out. But it's a pretty standard 19-inch 12U server rack, with door, side panels and shelves. (I have a StarTech one elsewhere in the house; also a good make.)
For a 4-battery system like this, a 12U-high rack is cutting it a bit fine: they will fit, but there's not much room for manoeuvring! (In particular, we had shelves with lips on the front and there wasn't room to lift the batteries over the lips when the batteries were only 3U apart, so the shelves had to be modified.) A 15U-high rack would have been more sensible, and/or supports which were more like side-rails than full shelves.
If you're not familiar with server racks like this, they are wonderfully robust, time-consuming to assemble, and distressingly expensive! I think mine was about £600 with all the bits.
It's worth noting that the rack isn't wall-mounted in itself: the installers bolted it onto three large brackets after these were bolted into the wall. They stood on each one and jumped up and down a bit to test it, because we knew the combination would be holding around a quarter of a tonne.
Looks like the kind of thing i want installed. Who was your installer?
It was done by a local company called Huttie
Hi Quentin, did you have to install an additional consumer unit to make use of the UPS mode in case of a power cut?
Hi Chris - I actually have quite a complex consumer unit setup now!
The house has lots of circuits and I started with two CUs before the installation. There are now 3 CU boxes, but two of them are effective split in half, to give the following sections:
* The first half-CU is the incoming supply: the main switch and some circuits which are outside the inverter's normal world: the garage and car charger, and the immersion heater - these are never powered from the battery, though they can make use of excess solar which would otherwise be exported to the grid.
* Then there's my main RCD, and the output from that -- the second half of the CU -- has the main supply to the inverter and the things that won't ever be powered in the event of a grid failure: in my case that's really only the oven.
The two other CUs are for the things that *do* run from the battery during a power cut, so these are supplied with power from the inverter.
* There are some that will only be powered while the battery is more than 50% full - the 'Aux' output mentioned in the video. There aren't many of these: the washing machine and tumble drier, for example, and so they only get half a CU.
* Finally, there are those circuits which are *always* battery-backed. This is the majority of the house, and the circuits take up the remaining 1.5 consumer units :-)
So I actually have one 1.5-CU section, and three 0.5-CU sections! It would be much tidier to have four separate CUs, but they're in a cupboard which only just has room for three!
Still, to answer your basic question, it's possible to split the bus bar in a consumer unit into multiple sections, and if you have enough space, you don't really need a separate box for each bit. But you will probably need an RCD or a master switch or similar for each section, so splitting the bus in half doesn't come without cost.
One stroke of luck was to find a Brother PT-E300 label printer on sale at a great discount early in the process, and labelling carefully and in some detail everything the installers didn't label themselves (and quite a few things they did!)
@@quentinsf Thanks, nice setup! I'm essentially struggling to find an installer that would put most of the house on UPS. I have one that will only do an AUX socket only and the other that would put a small backup board for lighting and the boiler only but it seems a shame not to have a few sockets working like internet and TV. Do you know if it has to be split from the main unit? I thought the inverter would just deal with the power cut and use the same CU...
@@ChrisRenga It does have to be an inverter that is approved for automatic switching into 'island mode', and one that has a high-enough wattage rating to have a reasonable chance of running your house. The typical home battery installation just isn't big enough; it might have an 8kWh battery which is capable of discharging 4-5kW, and you wouldn't be able to turn on a hairdryer and a kettle at the same time... so the easiest way to stop people overloading it is to turn off most of the circuits.
And there are the complexities I've mentioned in the video of the automatic switchover when the grid goes down - some systems will just offer a manual switch rather than an automated 'backup gateway'. Still better than nothing, but...
My inverter can output about 9kW, and I had also been logging my electricity usage for a while so could show the installer that we pretty much never exceeded that, once you excluded the car charger.
When I was looking, the only real options that could do what I wanted were, I think, the Tesla Powerwall or the Sunsynk, or you could build a system using multiple components from Victron. There may be other options now...
EPS and UPS - there IS a difference. UPS is more expensive, and ensures a completely uninterruptible power supply (0-12 millisecond) , suitable for sensitive electrical devices, important computers running critical systems. It contains surge protection. You shouldn’t Connect motors and transformers to a UPS, as they are inductive loads and can damage the system. A UPS is permanently connected, and ensures a perfect handover in the case of a power outage. A EPS is off when the power is on. Therefore there is a tiny period of interruption (250 millisecond) as the power drops and the EPS kicks in. If it doesn’t matter if the power can drop for a second, then an EPS is better, as it can be used with any electrical loads. An EPS would be better for a house, with maybe a small UPS connected between the house socket and sensitive equipment.
Thanks Chris - it sounds as if mine is more of a UPS, in that the inverter is generally operating and supplying power from solar and/or battery, whether or not the grid is connected. I do also have smaller UPSs on some equipment, but the main difference is really to do with how the mains is isolated in case of failure, rather than how the backup is started up!
I only picked up the 'EPS' phrase because it was what the installers used.
@@quentinsf if it is a ups , then when running on it, do not use electric motors, drills, kitchen mixers, large transformers etc
Well, whichever it is, it can supply 8kW and run the washing machine just fine 🙂
(But there is a very slight flicker sometimes visible on the lights at the moment the grid disconnects. I think a full switchover is more in the 20-40ms range, probably)
@@quentinsf Sounds like EPS - that is more normal for a general electrical supply
Nice presentation style.
I have an 8kw Sunsynk and 8.5kw array so very similar set up.
I don't really see the need for the Eddi as Sunsynk can do the same using its own radio controlled switch. It's a much lower cost than the Eddi.
Similarly the double UPS doesn't make sense, it's almost as if someone has sold you unnecessary extras. If island mode is triggered surely all you do is stay clear of heavy loads. Don't run a kettle, oven, hob air-conditioned etc at the same time as they'll exceed the capacity of the inverter and batteries to deliver.
With Zappi and the Tesla that makes sense but your comments about batteries don't seem to account for the ability of your inverter to set priorities of supply and consumption.
My batteries are BYD their charge levels can also be programmed your will be the same.
Your comments about it being at least as capable as the Tesla powerwall probably more. Sunsynk is very competitively priced.
More interesting than the South Africa connection is the Sol Ark version on the State's which is the choice of doomsday preppers at a premium price over Tesla.
Hi Andy - thanks for this, but don't worry, nobody sold me anything I didn't want: I designed the system this way!
The double UPS is so that some of the heavy but unnecessary loads will switch off automatically once the battery capacity drops below a certain level. Yes, if I'm in the house and know that island mode is triggered, I could avoid using them, but I may not be, and I may not know! If I start the washing machine on a two-hour cycle and then go out... Well, you get the idea! The inverter and batteries can cope with all our normal loads simultaneously, but we want to preserve battery for as long as possible for the higher-priority things so we automatically kill off other circuits first during long grid outages.
Similarly, the great thing about the Zappi and Eddi are the amount of control they give, and the ability to prioritise them relative to other things. I have a separate video about the Zappi if you're interested.
I didn't know that Sunsynk had a radio-controlled switch for the immersion heater; I can't find a reference to it? If that was available in the UK when I did my installation, they certainly weren't telling people about it! I know that some people use the AUX output from the inverter to power one, but that's just an on/off switch. The Eddi gives full variable-power control, so you can match the amount of energy used for heating to the amount of excess solar available.
Not sure I quite understand your comment about programming the charge levels on the batteries. I do that, obviously, but the amount I want to charge overnight using cheap-rate grid electricity needs to depend on the weather forecast for the following day (and the number of hours of daylight) - I don't want to draw from the grid if I'm going to get plenty from the solar to last me through the following day and night. So, ideally, it would be constantly changing based on these outside factors, and Sunsynk don't offer a direct way to do that, so I'm starting to implement my own automations. (This is one thing the Tesla apparently does quite well.)
Hope that explains a bit!
All the best,
Quentin
@@quentinsf Hi Quentin,
If you search out Keith Coughs Sunsynk update of three weeks ago, he admits the unit I mentioned is not ready. It was originally expected March April and was to be at nil charge!
However there is another method of diverting surplus power using the hysteresis function on the battery controls. It essentially means the immersion heater element works at full power. There's a Keith Gough video on how to do this on the Mini Beast as he calls the little inverter.
This is important because not using the full 3kw is not as efficient but also runs the risk of Legionella bacteria growing in the tank. With ASHP which also produce hot water mine is set to 51degrees it is a legal requirement to use the full power of the immersion heater to hear the water above this temperature to kill the bacteria. I don't know how the Eddi stands biologically if it runs at less than 3kw. My guess is no one has thought of this and until someone is infected and dies it will pass.
Once a week the immersion heater kicks in to take my hot water to a higher temperature. Normally 1kw in produces 3kw hot water with an ASHP so my batteries provide all the load. I've never heard it mentioned wrpt Eddi but I can see it as a potential downside.
I take your point on your choices, my own philosophy is KISS keep it simple stupid - more bit more to go wrong.
My house looks like being virtually zero carbon since January I be used 5000+ kw and produced a similar amount with my solar. The rub comes with the production being highest in the long days of summer but consumption is highest in winter when the ASHP faces the highest delta T difference between outside and inside. A decent price for export mitigates this, the cash effectively performing a time switch between seasons.
Cheers
Andy
@@andygolub174 Yes, Legionella is covered in the Eddi documentation too, I seem to recall, and you can schedule full-power boosts from time to time.
Our heating is still primarily gas, so for us the Eddi is just a top-up. In the end, of course, the Legionella issue depends on the setting of the thermostat on the tank, and being able to reach it occasionally , rather than the wattage you use to get there! 1kW on a small tank would be the same as 3kW on ours.
I think we venture into the area of stratification whilst heating water. 1kw supplied to a 3kw heating element is inefficient according to Keith Gough he's an electrical engineer so I defer to him.
Regardless the Sunsynk system is amongst if not the best available on the market.
Broken top slate at 02:32, just in case you were getting any leaks!
Thanks... but it has since been fixed 🙂
@@quentinsf Nice one. I hope the panels didn't make it to difficult to access which has always been a concern for me with solar especially with me also having a slate roof, which creates access problems it's self with slate being so fragile to stand on.
@@northeastcorals Fortunately this slate was close enough to the ridge that the guys could fix it from the other side just by using roof ladders!
@@quentinsf Ah, ideal!
Great video. Keeping you straight on your terminology though- your water tank stores excess energy, not power...
You're quite right, of course. It takes any excess power and stores it as excess energy. 🙂
which model of sunsynk is this 3.6?
This is the 8kW, though I don't think there's a great deal of difference between most of them other than the capacity!
@@quentinsf i wanted to buy an inverter.. I am planning to do DIY myself and no export to grid.. Do u think i should go for 5k or 8k one? Nothing to be exported and planning about 7k of panels .. I am not sure how the kw is used since 3.6 can support upto 7 kw .Any advantage over the 3.6k if panels remain same?
@@Truevideoz My guess, though you'd need to check the specs, is that it could deal with 7kW in the DC world - in other words, it could charge batteries, if you have them, from the solar at that rate since they're both on the same DC side of the inverter. But if the inverter is rated at 3.6kW then the most you could shift from DC to AC or vice versa would be limited to 3.6. So the most you could actually get onto your AC house circuits from solar and/or from batteries would be 3.6kW. And the fastest rate you could charge batteries from the mains would also be 3.6kW.
Another thing I expect you could do, if you were getting 7kW of sunshine, would be to have half of it go to charging batteries and half of it to running the house.
But if you want to get *more* than 3.6kW actually to or from your house AC circuits at any one time, you'd need to go for a bigger inverter.
Best,
Quentin
Latest advisory in UK not to put batteries in roof spaces!
Yes, I saw that, though it doesn't concern me too much... The rationale was, I think, chiefly about two things: a worry about temperatures in the loft, but I've monitored mine through a year and had no problems. The inverter gets hot, but the batteries are fine. And the second was the concern, in case of fire, of heavy weights falling from high up, so I'm glad that mine are bolted to the wall and not supported on wooden rafters!
The loft is not the best place to locate an inverter unless you have ventilation , it gets very hot!
No, that's true, and it's somewhat discouraged now by some new much-debated official guidance. But for many people other options are difficult if not impossible.
I've watched my temperatures for a year, and when it gets above about 60C, the inverter fans kick in and stop it going above about 65C, so that's clearly their design temp. The batteries have never gone above about 30C, which is quite a happy temp for them.
So I think mine's OK. I did add a thermostat-controlled extractor in the loft last summer, but I don't think it really makes any difference.
@@quentinsf I moved my inverter to an adjacent loft that had a vent tile . Its a lot cooler , Ithought it best .
One of your tiles has fallen down - see 2:32.
Thanks Ivan - you’re not the first to comment on that! 🙂 Now fixed!
Haha! I picked the wrong day to film this! Now, on the following morning, it's bright and sunny outside and the kilowatts are streaming in! 🙂
Isn't White Coat Syndrome wonderful?
I presume you noticed the tile slipped down from the ridge, in the center of your array?
@@brianholding4357 Thanks Brian - yes, it's since been fixed! Q
You should have some kind of emergency ventilation in case the attic/loft where the inverter and batteries are gets too hot. Sol-Ark (another company that sells Ningbo Deye inverters modified to their specifications) will void the inverter warranty if it was installed in an uninsulated or not air conditioned attic (what we call lofts on this side of the pond).
Also, that is not a complicated install.
they are banning it in attics as fire hazard
Well, to be more exact, the current recommendations are against installations in attics - it's not banned - and these recommendations have been greatly debated. The key issues seem to be the worry about heavy weights dropping through the roof if the rafters catch fire (but my kit is all mounted on the wall), and the likelihood of high temperatures in the loft in the summer (but I've monitored mine for a year and the temperatures are OK).
So the recommendations do make some sense, but I'm not too worried about my own installation, and it's perfectly possible to have a safe installation in the roof if it's properly thought out.
I have to say, putting lithium solar batteries in a loft is a recipe for fire and extremely bad practice. This is the worst place you can install them. it would be wise to move the system out of the loft and into the garage or risk losing your whole house to fire.
Well, I'm conscious of some risk, but lots of people do install batteries in the house (e.g. if they don't have a garage!), and I guess there's something to be said for fires being at the top of the house, where the heat goes upwards, rather than at the bottom! The batteries are mounted on the cement wall, not on the rafters.
I suspect other electrical faults would be more likely to cause my house to burn down than the presence of batteries up there!
@@quentinsf Some risk would be a 0.01% chance, you're more into the 25% chance. Charging batteries can increase cell temp by 15ºc and this means you will hit the 50ºc charge limit in no time. Your cell damage will be rapid and this means the older the batteries, the higher the 25% chance expands to 50%. Once lithium cells get damaged, thermal runaway is inevitable in high ambient temperatures. It's just not worth what you call "some risk" and I advise you move these no matter the cost as your life is far more important. Most people die from smoke inhalation not the fire and a lithium battery bank, enclosed, will easily burn through your ceiling. Just trying to help you, not trying to cause any disrespect, I just have a conscience
@@quentinsf ruclips.net/video/8nz5ijXcckI/видео.html
@@chriswright7083
Thanks, Chris, but I'd be interested in your source for the suggestion that 25% of home batteries might burst into flames. :-) Just FYI, I've got logs of all the data, and the very highest battery temperature recorded since the system was installed a year ago was 37C. For the vast majority of the summer, the batteries stayed below 30C. (The rapid charging of my batteries almost always happens in the middle of the night when the ambient temperatures are lower, too. But, though the inverter gets pretty warm, the battery temperatures are remarkably stable.)
This UK government report (assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5f761b828fa8f55e33275cfc/domestic-battery-energy-storage-systems.pdf - section 5.5.1) identifies about 17 serious fires from the 900,000 PV installations by the end of 2016. It's not known how many of these included Li batteries, but that means that the number of serious fires involving home batteries must by then must noticeably less - i.e. not more than 0.001%. Or, to take another example, Germany, by the same point, had reported a total of two domestic battery-related incidents.... and nobody was injured.
Now, that will no doubt increase as the batteries get older, but it's still a very long way to go before they pose a serious risk.
I'm genuinely interested in this stuff, because I've been looking at the stats for EV batteries, which are way more likely to get damaged, suffer extreme temperatures, etc, and yet the numbers of battery-related fires are in fact tiny (despite the media coverage!). More info on my blog if interested at statusq.org/archives/2024/02/14/11949/
The things that *do* pose more risks, and you don't want to have charging inside your living accommodation, are e-bikes and e-scooters.
Best,
Quentin
@@quentinsf 2016 was before the solar rush, where people had string inverters installed in loft spaces. Lithium cell damages over time, so be cautious of that. You don't charge your batteries during the day from solar? What if you were to discharge at full capacity and high amps for a long period of time such as an EV charge? You may be seeing data which you think is safe, but it makes me question the safety on a long term perspective. it is just not worth the risk