I remember a gay man saying that most of the bisexual guys he's known and dated had Borderline personality disorder, which is a narcissistic in nature and on the pathological narcissism spectrum along with the other cluster b personality disorders and often occur together in the same person. I remember the guy who told me this that because he'd found it so common in the bisexual guys he'd dated he looked into and found some work by the psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg who noted that some of the bisexual men he'd studied had personality disorders, quite often NPD and that it was more about identity issues and confusion of identity. I never have read up on this it did make sense to me in that narcissists do have identity identity diffusion and a severe identity disturbance. I do think there's some(not all) bisexual men who are narcissists and that may have something to do with their sexual fluidity, especially because sex and anything else only matters to narcissists in that they get narcissistic supply from it so it really could be from anyone. It isn't about the depth of the emotion or the length of the relationship. It's about the quality of the supply. People have to be careful you don't become long term narcissistic supply for a narcissist though who will use you for all they can and will tell you anything so you keep supplying them. Narcissistic Supply refers to attention which supplies a narcissistic personality with validation, that they exist, that they matter, that they have power etc. They need others to "Supply" their experiences of self-worth and identity. It is the only way they can have that experience..The ego of narcissistic personalities is disordered, dysfunctional and deficient. It's dependent on the input from others in order to function. The ego is the part of us that speaks as "I." The ego is directly tied to our sense of self, our identity. In other words, among other things, narcissists are dependent on others to achieve or maintain a sense of self.m so they seek it out constantly. Securing narcissistic supply is a requirement for the regulation of this personality because due to their dysfunction they're unable to regulate themselves through any other means, It's necessary for survival. Narcissists can use sex as a form of narcissistic supply and because everyone is just a mirror to reflect back to them their own self worth, it really could be just anybody, even if it's someone just to desire them sexually and to affirm and validate their false self to create some self worth. without it narcissistic supply they feel worthless, empty and have no sense of self. They will use external things to try create some kind of semblance of an identity. They can be a totally different person from one person to the next and they'll be whatever they need to be to get whatever reflection and supply they need off that person. Children learn by mirroring adults. Through the fullness of time, with appropriate caregiver modeling and the development of insight, among other key components of self-reflection, they learn why they are doing the things they are doing, why they are feeling the things they are feeling. It seems that, for whatever reason, pathologically narcissistic individuals have been unable to do that. They are stuck simply mirroring to try and survive because without information reflected from others to use as a guidepost, things become very difficult for narcissistic people. Their self worth and identity are totally reliant on what other people reflect back to them. Every minute of every day is spent trying to manipulate, convince and force people to mirror back at them what they need to see in order to survive. Your function in this relationship is to provide whatever reflection they can turn into fleeting self-worth and personality traits they can mimic. That's it. The narcissist's entire life is a performance of one for one by one. Other people in these relationships are merely props to make the performance more believable and mirrors to reflect this performance to the only audience that matters, the narcissistic person themselves.They are infatuated with the reflections of themselves that they experience through other people's perception of them. They love the attention they receive, they love the verification of their reality and importance as a person, they love the reflection they are being shown of themselves, but they do not love the other person or people in the relationship because, like the mirror, they don't see the other person or people in the relationship. This is a person completely and totally fixated on themselves to the exclusion of everything else. They are not capable of understanding the pain or Humanity of other people. the narcissists only gets with others to validate themselves and their own self worth...they need narcissistic supply for survival and you are an object, a resource to get this from...it's not about anything else but narcissistic supply and the quality of it and needing personality trats to mimic. You are basically a mirror for the narcissist that mirrors back to them either a good or bad image because they are unable to create one or see themselves without others. Their condition that impairs the social neuronetworks of the brain. The very regions of the brain that handle how we relate, connect, empathize, manage our emotions, take accountability, reason (socially), inhibit impulses, and practice morality are dysfunctional in this population. In pathological narcissists we see the break-down of affective resonance in their inability to connect deeply with us. To feel with, for, and about us. Without empathy the relationship is shallow and everyone is disposable. And everyone is just as easily retrieved. They cannot connect and fulfill that deep desire we have to feel bonded to someone. They truly are empty black holes in that respect.There is no Empathy, Bonding , Appreciation, Trust & Honesty, Moral Reasoning & Care based morality, Respect & Boundaries, Emotional regulation, Accountability, Impulse control in Intimate relationships with pathological narcissists. They do not value or consider the emotions of their partner important. They value self only. Rather than love their partners, the deepest they can reach is to treat them like possessions or objects. Because they objectify other people they view all people as objects that can be controlled, used, stolen, bought and sold on and owned, including themselves. They don't appear to understand any human beings as complete sovereign individuals with all their own needs, wants, feelings, beliefs, preferences or anything else. In many ways many narcissists are completely out of touch with their own needs, wants, beliefs, feelings and everything else about themselves. They're just walking around the world doing things and reacting to stuff without knowing why or caring. They're on automatic pilot repeating the same patterns and sequences and acting out the same melodramatic scenes over and over again throughout their lives. They often genuinely have no idea why they do things and legitimately no interest in finding out and many even seem afraid of trying to figure these things out. People sometimes think that narcissists must be able to understand the feelings wants needs and beliefs of others if they can use them against you to upset you or manipulate you or create positive feelings in you, but the reality is that even a child of five or six can tell you what to do to make people like you or make them not like you or how to hurt somebody's feelings or get them to do what you want. It's not some secret power that narcissists have it's not magic and it requires no special skill or intelligence at all. Narcissists have learned what buttons to push to get what they want. It's just really not that difficult to do even kids can do it and it can be done very successfully by people who have no understanding of how it works at all. The only "skill" they truly need is a willingness to do it. The reason it's so effective is because you're actually fighting yourself. You're fighting your own feelings of guilt and shame or to hold on to your own fantasy or against your own cognitive dissonance. Narcissists simply repeat what you've said to them in many situations and if it's effective for them, meaning if it leads to the result they wanted they will keep repeating it. .Neither idealization nor devaluation are about the other person at all. They include no realistic understanding of the other person in any way. they only have feelings for themselves..but they need other people to mirror. This really can be anything as every interaction with this kind of person will be processed into narcissistic supply. You could be anybody or nobody to a narcissist, it's all the same. This is the extreme depth of this selfishness and the total egocentricity of the narcissistic personality. Other people do not exist to these personalities.The true Target of their behavior at every and any time is themselves and making themselves feel better. Your reaction is what narcissists are after and they're after it because of how it makes them feel. How it feels to you or how it affects you is not something these people even really see let alone understand consider or care about. Your reaction is not understood as being attached to an actual emotion or as something that affects you in any way. It is interpreted solely through the lens of how it affects them. It's not personal because you're not a person to them. You're a tool for a job and that's it.
I have been with the same guy for 25 years and yes I hate the idea of OPEN relationships. Good on you. It is fraught with emotional lies. YUCK ....good on you. My man and I live a quiet life together and keep completely away from the so called gay scene.
@@denver_dude You will meet him. My advice is not to look. He will be there when you least expect it. Be happy in the meantime and just let the universe know that is your wish in the back ground. I also HATE smoking YUCK
I agree 100%. I'm partnered and fully committed in a long-term relationship. We have been out together for dinner and/or a movie and several times I have been approached with obvious intentions of wanting a hookup. It makes me pissed as hell. Most of the time I'll say I'm not interested and turn away. A few times I've told them to get the hell away. It's annoying that so many gay men can be pigs and not want better for themselves and in turn the community. In my view, open relationships are just ongoing hookups with no true commitment or love/respect for one another. But many will argue it's to each his own.
I had someone tell me once, his opinion "If the relationship is open, the 2 guys are not compatible". I see this a lot on another app. "HAPPILY partnered", yes all the pictures are on one guy, shirtless.
If I'm just looking for a hookup, then a guy in an open relationship is no big deal. And that's pretty much what Grinder is used for. Personally I would never use that app if I was looking to establish an emotional connection with a guy.
I get your point, I'm not certain why it bothers me. I guess it makes me feel cheapened? It just turns me off. Sex also is not fun for me if it's 100% physical without any kind of intimacy, and I feel you're more likely to get that from a partnered guy who's presumably emotionally fulfilled at home (?).
Even for a casual hookup, I too don't want to deal with men who are already in a relationship. It's kind of a turn-off once I know that, that person already has someone.
Open relationship seems to be the new trend these days, it was never a thing from the ‘90s or early 2000s. The other day I was on the verge of hooking up with a guy and then he tells me can I ask my husband if he’s ok with this......I was like WTF! For me if I hook up with someone just for sex, I’d prefer that person to be single for the possibility of more to come afterwards if there is good chemistry.
The only reason why it wasn't so much in the 90/00's is due to the fear of AIDS, but it definitely was a thing before the AIDS plague. It's just going back to the "norm" again.
Not a fan of the open-relationship, but that is just my preference. I haven't been in any kind of relationship in years due to the fact that my standards are a little high, but recently I have been wanting to dive back into the dating pool, but the apps are so bad and make me so self-conscious because I am not a "model" and those I send interests to are usually bots or not interested. Being in a big city (LA) is dreadful as guys are looking for the next best thing (whatever that is). I shy away from those who say "partnered" or "open relationships" because as you say, I don't want to get emotionally involved with someone, knowing that it will likely lead no where, or worse, cause a riff in their current relationship.
@benjaminschneider9682 I too live in LA. As a 57 year old guy who also isn't a model or gym rat, I'm mostly ignored. There have been some hot & wild hookups with sexy men at times. Grindr in LA is a relational dystopia. Craigslist was WAY more fun & productive back in the day.
Spot on….!!! I have no issues with someone being in an open relationship and disclosing that from the get go… then… if as a single person you decide to engage… you both know what to expect… but by not disclosing… they leave themselves open to a single person rejecting them simply because he wants to be with someone where he at least stands a chance of developing something more…. Seems pretty straight forward to me
I agree with you 100 percent. You are true to your needs, wants, and future desires. I hope to be the same as you based upon my own characteristics and future needs.
I would agree 100% and it's even worse when they are married to women and on Grindr. I am not interested in messing with anyone's marriage, especially those cheating on wives.
Indeed, although it can and does happen. Gay male dating/hook-up sites are generally a hall of illusions. So-called "profiles" are merely reflective of an individual painting an idealized portrait of himself. Profiles are full of lies and fabrications.
@@FirstHillSeattle Love that :) I think people are a bit jaded/judgey when it comes to apps...anything is possible, anywhere, anytime. Meeting someone on an app is the new meeting someone at the bar. Some people are convinced there's no one "serious" found there, which is an enormous generalization.
If this was Grindr or another hookup app, I wouldn't assume anyone's being honest about things like relationship status. Since you're unlikely to meet their friends, family or anyone else in their life, it's impossible to know if they're partnered or not (unless you somehow access their social media). You'd be surprised how many guys looking for casual hookups on apps or cruising spots have wives and girlfriends at home, let alone male partners.
Bingo. Once they say they are in an open relationship or married to female and deep in the closet, I’m checked out. I’ve been in several situations in the past that went HORRIBLY wrong and very embarrassing for everyone. Done with that. Thank you, next...
Good for you for sticking to your beliefs. You're a breath of fresh air! I've been together with my partner for about 16 years and in a closed relationship. Sure there can be times where your tired of your partner, but I wouldn't trade him for anything( maybe Henry Cavill 😂). Imo, if you want an open relationship, you're probably not ready to settle down. Maybe those couples should reevaluate their relationship ? Maybe they're not with the right person, or not ready to settle down? I'm on the older side ( ancient, in the gay community, meaning over 50 haha!), but I had my fun and was ready for being with the same person for the rest of my life. Gays ( and straights ) need to listen to what their gut tells them and state right at the beginning , what they are looking for in a possible relationship! Don't stick with someone that doesn't make you happy, even if it means being alone for a while.
I feel like “to each his own” but he should have left you alone after you declined. Everyone on the apps should just respect boundaries . Otherwise , I’m not against hooking up with guys, when I was in the apps, that are partnered , married, whatever as long as they are transparent about it. But, let’s be for real, who’s really honest anymore really.
Dude this is not just a gay guy thing it's a guy thing in general. I would have immediately deleted and blocked him he would not have been able to reach out to me again. I'm just saying
I hate that too, but it’s all I meet anymore. And it never works, someone gets jealous or they blame you for ruining their relationship.That and straight guys who are experimenting but still want to have boyfriend benefits while they run after a woman the first chance they get. Ugh.
I agree with you you on this one. My boundary is not with the "open relationship" guys but the ones who say in their profiles they are "married". I won't go there. Period. I don't care if they are "married" to a man or a woman, if you take a sacred vow then treat it as a sacred vow or at least a serious commitment. (Making your spouse wonder all the time where you are and who you are with is not love as far as I'm concerned). However, this whole issue changes somewhat with age. In my age group (gay geezers) a lot of married men have long time partners who either have serious health problems or are dependent on their partners to act as caregivers. I make an exception for one of these guys as his partner is seriously disabled and they haven't had sex in years. The ones that really turn me off are the" look at me and how perfect my life is" braggarts who say in their profiles "I am married to the most awesome guy in the world" yet here they are scrolling for sex on a tacky hook-up site. That is not a marriage honey....it's just FWBs sharing the rent or gay room-mates who co-exist in the same home. If we as a community fought for the right to be legally married then at least take marriage seriously and don't make it a joke online..
I’ve had partnered men beg me on Grindr to hook up with them. It’s always awful and I just quit talking to them altogether. I’m not sure why that kind of thing happens, but it makes me super uncomfortable.
I feel, sadly, that so many would get with these kinds of guys simply because they dont feel like they can get a decent single guy. Reasons for this can range from low self esteem, past traumas, loneliness, and this list goes on. Considering how critical most of the gay community is towards each other and themselves, its no surprise that so many of us end up alone or in situationships like this mentioned in your video.
I recently encountered a partnered guy on Grindr who was not looking for sex or a throuple relationship. He wanted someone to go to dinner with, see a concert, art exhibition, etc. So, I said, “you’re just looking for a platonic friend, it sounds like.” He said, no he was looking to actually date someone minus the physical intimacy and sex.
@ exactly. I told him he and his husband need couples counseling if he feels like he has to seek emotional connection someplace else. Furthermore, what the hell is in it for me?
Most Gay relationships are not like traditional (straight) relationships. I think it's fine for every gay man to set his own dating and relationship rules. Part of the dating process is communicating and understanding what is acceptable and what is not to all parties involved. What is unacceptable in your story is that the other guy did not accept your "No" or "Not interested" reply. As in the straight world, "No" still means "No." Please talk and listen!
I think it comes from decades ago when there was a need to react against sexual oppression by being free … but ultimately its resulted in a common attitude today that one can have ones cake and eat it to …
Keven, you are absolutely right in everything you say here. You are so right "enough that we have to use Apps like these to meet guys". These partnered guys have really cheapened the whole concept and meaning of partnership in life and even worse.....those who are married..... It also speaks of how selfish these guys are when they say "oh, it's alright...no one's getting hurst" but that is as you say "it's alright for them! What about me who specified, not interested in partnered guys!!"...Thank you so much for the videos (it's like listening to myself)
i agree these open relationships guys are greedy, selfish, and dirty.... i had met a few that would try to seduce guys in committed relationships so disgusting!!!
I get it that you want a connection with someone who could potentially be emotionally available. But he's telling you upfront that he's only looking for fun. There are plenty of single men who are emotionally unavailable and only looking for fun. As long as you find them a turnoff as well, that's fair. But feelings don't have to be fair or logical. If you only want NSA with single men, that's valid. But men who are in open or poly relationships who are upfront about it are just as unavailable emotionally as many single men. The question is: if both of you are looking for something casual, what difference does it make that you know, upfront, that it's always going to be casual? Or do you just want to hold out the possibility that it could develop into something more?
Gay men in open relationships who remain active on dating apps for casual sex can, in my view, be categorized as either unhealthy or healthy. Unhealthy Dynamics: The unhealthy variety, in my opinion, often includes men who might otherwise be shy or socially awkward if they weren’t in a relationship. With a partner as an “anchor,” they feel less vulnerable and more emboldened to pursue others, as any rejection feels less consequential-they still have the safety net of their relationship. This is problematic for two main reasons: 1. Dishonesty with others: They’re often not upfront about their situation, which disrespects the people they’re engaging with. 2. Dishonesty with their partner: Casual, low-intent flirting might seem harmless, but if they truly connect with someone else, there’s a real chance they could leave their partner for the “right” person. In this sense, such behavior feels fundamentally unhealthy. By contrast, someone like you, Keven-who is single, seeking meaningful connection, and unwilling to settle for an unfulfilling relationship-seems to reflect a more balanced and self-assured approach. Choosing to remain single rather than rely on a relationship as a crutch indicates emotional maturity and independence. Healthy Dynamics: That said, there is a healthier way to navigate open relationships while still seeking connections. This occurs when the openness is pursued with the partner, not separately. At the end of the day, we’re gay men, and for many of us, the idea of one partner being the last person we’ll ever sleep with might not feel realistic. However, the key is to approach this openness as a team. Personally, I’ve struggled to execute this strategy in the past. As a more masculine guy who’s into twinkish types, I’ve found that the twinks who are into me typically don’t want to share their partner in situations where the attraction isn’t mutual. Similarly, I wouldn’t want to sleep with someone my partner wasn’t into. This creates challenges, but I still believe that an open relationship can work healthily if both partners are fully aligned and pursue their interests together, not apart.
It seems to me that the most normal guys out there are the partnered ones--gay and straight. I would prefer not to be with partnered guys, but if not for them, I'd have no intimacy at all. Just too many single flakes out there.
I’ve been in a monogamous marriage with my husband for forty years. Yes, the sex is still good. Over the years, we’ve had couple friends in open relationships. None of them are still couples. Your eyes are beautiful. 😂 I can’t still look.
As others here have said being partnered to someone emboldens someone to take chances since not as much to lose. I think with open relationships always the possibility someone finds someone more attractive or more successful so could make it easier to leave a relationship
I think you ultimately, even if it’s a hook up, are always wanting to leave open the possibility of it blossoming into something further, and having a boundary, that’s just not going to work with a partnered guy. I get it. I once hooked up with a bi guy. Amazing sex. However once he told me he would never date men and only used them for sex, I just became repulsed and stopped talking to him. I think people don’t realize if that even if they’re hooking up there’s still an emotional connection they’re looking for.
I'm in an open relationship, and have been for 25 years with the same guy. We met in 1999 and we got married, once it was legal on the federal level, in 2014. I think most guys on Grindr are just looking for a hookup and not necessarily looking for a life partner. There are social apps for gay men specifically looking for relationships. Grindr's not really one of them, IMHO. But definitely if hooking up with somebody who you know is emotionally attached to someone else is a sexual turn off for you then cool. I totally get it. I just don't think most gay men are worried about that particular issue on Grndr.
Yeah, I may just be an outlier. At the same time, I have it listed on my profile that I'm not interested in partnered guys. I feel like if someone is partnered and sees that, they could mention it proactively if I reach out? 🤷🏻♂
Whether someone is in a monogamous or open relationship tells me very little about that person. It isn't even a reliable predictor of whether they are looking for sex outside of their relationship. Guys looking for monogamy are not inherently "healthy" or "unhealthy". Guys looking for open relationships are not inherently "healthy" or "unhealthy". I find it silly to paint with a broad brush here. Both groups are far too large to draw any realistic conclusions about. If you're into monogamy, great. I'm happy that you know that about yourself so you can pursue what you want. People should respect that and move on. The person in your story isn't guilty of being in a open relationship, they're guilty of not respecting your boundary. But also it's an app: no "hints" state it plainly and then block if necessary. I find these conversations always have a very judgy undertone about people who are not into monogamy. You can practice ethical nonmonogamy and unethical monogamy. A person can be a fantastic partner in an open relationship, and another person can be an awful partner in a monogamous relationship. Last point: have you ever been with someone who was SUPER into monogamy? To the point they spit venom about characters in movies or tv shows that cheat... Only to find out they're not actually monogamous they just want their partner to be?
Agree. I think it’s messed up. Relationships are hard. People mess up. But an open relationship is very hard to maintain. I’ve seen a very few that work. The fact that he suppressed the fact is part of the package.
You do you. I’m in an open relationship and if someone doesn’t want to pursue sex with me because of that, no hard feelings. However, I met guys who want to keep things platonic and we became good friends. I think it all depends on what you are looking for and the situation. You don’t owe anything to anyone you start talking to on the apps. People should respect your boundaries and needs and not be mad about it. However, if click with someone who’s in an open relationship, you might be missing out on a good friendship if you totally dismiss it.
Keven... I had to say something on this video. I watch all your videos. This is a huge issue in our community. If this works for some... fine....but like you I am not into openness or sharing like this for many reasons. You do not know what is going on at home and the background.. You do not want to be involved in someone else's drama or situations as no one knows what is going on. No one wants to be placed under rules, situations or circumstances. This is why it is so challenging for so many to meet others who want something fulfilling. It can be frustrating on so many levels for everyone involved. This is why I am not with anyone myself because I was not willing to do this among other things.
@@KevenTalks No one wants their property, career and life messed up being this situation. Is the person being honest about the fact they are in a open relationship is the first issue. You are smart enough to stay away from that drama.
If I'm looking for a relationship, then I want someone who is also single. If I'm just looking for a hookup, then as long as the other person is honest with their partner then I don't care. The real problem is if you are hooking up to kind of "interview" men with the possibility of transitioning that into a relationship(which a LOT of men do). In that case, you may need to rethink your strategy. Either way, I think that there should be an option in your profile that indicates if you are open to guys in relationships. I know some apps have it, but most don't.
Everything you said is fine you're allowed to have your own feeling - you could have and probably should have just blocked him and moved on. It's not as complicated as you're making it out to be. A lot of guys in the community are open and you're getting insulted by them trying to explain their lifestyle to you while not being clear about why you're not interested is wasting your and their time.
When you become an old man like me, you will no longer take gay men seriously. They are a waste of time and exhausting. But regretfully I'm old and bitter.
I've never really understood this concept of open relationships. It's like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want the feeling of security that a partner brings and you want the flings. It's ridiculous. You did the right thing, for sure.
I agree and used that same expression below somewhere in the comments, but by the way, each time I use it, I realize how absurd of a saying it is - wouldn't you want to eat a cake if you have it? Like what else would you do with it? 😂
I used to work for gay men that were in open relationships but whom were legally partnered with eachother but still looked for other guys on apps and in person... as a gay man I never understood this because personally the man that I chose would be enough for me to not try to look for someone else..my ex actually fulfilled me ...I wasn't even interested in other guys when I was with him and vise versa...so I don't get the whole open relationship thing...its a bad rep and I feel like the gayzzz need to stop this potentially destructive behavior ...be content with only one partner gentlemen
I can understand people entering an open relationship after years of commitment to 1 person and that excitement/lust fading - perhaps you have created a life together and want to "have your cake and eat it too"...that being said, I want no part in it - so I feel like if I make that clear (like on an app) - then leave me alone! 🤦🏻♂
I'm on scruff (no grindr). 100%, common (at least in the bay area) - a vast # of gay relationships are open based on my experience w/ this app. Which doesn't bother me as much as this idea that men can be in committed to someone else and still be on a hookup app because they want more. They got theirs and its not enough. Yet folks like me who've struggled with dating/finding that needle in the haystack, which is what it feels like being queer/gay and trying to date - we live among billions of people yet dating can often feel lonely and futile. And if you don't fit the mold of physical beauty standards in gay culture its even harder. Again, no issues with open relationships but dang does this status seem way too common with gay men. And who the F knows if they have a mutual agreement with their partners - i imagine there are portion of them that don't. I state in my profile that i am not looking to hookup with men in open relationships' or their husbands which i'm sure cuts down a big # of men who reach out to me (which is little to none LOL). Sorry for the paragraph - turns out i have something to say about his topic. 😉
If your profile emphasizes INTO SINGLE ONLY and you ignore anyone not providing complete info in theirs, then this type of conversation theoretically would not happen. Obviously, a profile can be complete and full of lies, but at least you can skip anyone intentionally not disclosing by leaving a field blank.
@@KevenTalks It's all your call how you handle it of course. I perceive incompleteness as a general red flag and factor it into my conclusions about someone displaying it. Thanks for the thought-provoking presentation on this subject.
Honestly, just block him. There are plenty of people who aren't in open relationship that doesn't understand they can be rejected either and can be pretty hostile. And plenty of guys in open relationship who are respectful of boundary. When it comes to grindr, the amount of bs on it, open relationship is literally the least of my worries. Rampant racism, crazy @ss fetish, and other nonsense that it isn't even worth being on there.
Hi! Your video kept getting sent to me, so I decided to watch (cursed algorithm). This is my take: I’m three months shy of fifty and married; if I had to date now, I would outright refuse. It’s because of the apps. I think a lot of users report dissatisfaction because those are the people seeking intimacy (anyone can get sex; sex is an easy pursuit), but the apps are designed to keep you engaged and using-or they don’t make money. Your constant pursuit of intimacy is the engine. I hope you find someone who wants you and only you. Take it, leave it, but I fully understand your frustration.
It is understandable that you are annoyed about the challenges of dating. However, you think that partnered that ethically non-monogamous men are comparable to smokers? One guy in the comments said they are narcissists!? This is "interesting". Do you have straight friends? Do you understand how much infidelity they deal with? I think you are going about your frustrations in the wrong way. You were disappointed that you finally met a decent guy and he was partnered and that's not your preference but I don't think this video or these comments will age well. You should also consider reading a bit more about this and using curiosity to maybe inform you opinion. You even have the opportunity to ask the same guys questions instead of telling people how unattractive they are. There's a famous book called Sex at Dawn the talks about the origin of marriage and modern sexuality. I don't want to assume you haven't read it but it doesn't seem so. Heck there I also article son Psychology Today and other trust worthy places. As a gay person you know how it feels to be ostracized and made to feel disgusted. It may be good to tap into that at this time.
YES lets talk about it. I am 1000000% turned off and disgusted by married guys who are my neighbors in Provincetown when I'm at my summer home there act like they are madly in love and yet are on Grindr 24/7 looking for sex. I don't understand how two people can stand on an alter in a church and take vows in front of their loved ones, then go do that and act like it's "normal". I would NEVER allow someone to disrespect me like that in a million years. I also believe that a person in a relationship who treats another person he wants to hook up with like a sex object he can use and then discard is dehumanizing and wrong on every level. I am personally disgusted with these people and would never even associate with them as I find their behavior repulsive. Keven you are a class act. Stick to your values and NEVER lower your standards.
LOL I find that comical myself. My friend tells this story of being on a group trip with other gay guys - one of them was on his phone the entire time checking Grindr (while his partner was there - open relationship) - and then at the end of the trip, he proposed to his partner 🤣
right because they have that " safety neck" of having their husband back home. so they can take risks and it really doesn't matter which way it goes. For single guys , being more careful and more inhibited makes more sense because at the end of day you're by yourself .
I have no idea who you are or why you ended up on my feed and I am 26 seconds into your video and had to stop...If you are being charmed on any app, especially Grinder, you are just as bad! I am not even going to watch the rest of the video as it's irrelevant. If you want better, be better. Of you want more, be more. Don't hope for a good man, hope that YOU are ready for a good man! You clearly aren't ready to be in a monogamous relationship!
Narcissism plays a large part of this.
I remember a gay man saying that most of the bisexual guys he's known and dated had Borderline personality disorder, which is a narcissistic in nature and on the pathological narcissism spectrum along with the other cluster b personality disorders and often occur together in the same person. I remember the guy who told me this that because he'd found it so common in the bisexual guys he'd dated he looked into and found some work by the psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg who noted that some of the bisexual men he'd studied had personality disorders, quite often NPD and that it was more about identity issues and confusion of identity.
I never have read up on this it did make sense to me in that narcissists do have identity identity diffusion and a severe identity disturbance. I do think there's some(not all) bisexual men who are narcissists and that may have something to do with their sexual fluidity, especially because sex and anything else only matters to narcissists in that they get narcissistic supply from it so it really could be from anyone. It isn't about the depth of the emotion or the length of the relationship. It's about the quality of the supply. People have to be careful you don't become long term narcissistic supply for a narcissist though who will use you for all they can and will tell you anything so you keep supplying them.
Narcissistic Supply refers to attention which supplies a narcissistic personality with validation, that they exist, that they matter, that they have power etc. They need others to "Supply" their experiences of self-worth and identity. It is the only way they can have that experience..The ego of narcissistic personalities is disordered, dysfunctional and deficient. It's dependent on the input from others in order to function. The ego is the part of us that speaks as "I." The ego is directly tied to our sense of self, our identity. In other words, among other things, narcissists are dependent on others to achieve or maintain a sense of self.m so they seek it out constantly.
Securing narcissistic supply is a requirement for the regulation of this personality because due to their dysfunction they're unable to regulate themselves through any other means, It's necessary for survival. Narcissists can use sex as a form of narcissistic supply and because everyone is just a mirror to reflect back to them their own self worth, it really could be just anybody, even if it's someone just to desire them sexually and to affirm and validate their false self to create some self worth. without it narcissistic supply they feel worthless, empty and have no sense of self. They will use external things to try create some kind of semblance of an identity. They can be a totally different person from one person to the next and they'll be whatever they need to be to get whatever reflection and supply they need off that person.
Children learn by mirroring adults. Through the fullness of time, with appropriate caregiver modeling and the development of insight, among other key components of self-reflection, they learn why they are doing the things they are doing, why they are feeling the things they are feeling. It seems that, for whatever reason, pathologically narcissistic individuals have been unable to do that. They are stuck simply mirroring to try and survive because without information reflected from others to use as a guidepost, things become very difficult for narcissistic people. Their self worth and identity are totally reliant on what other people reflect back to them. Every minute of every day is spent trying to manipulate, convince and force people to mirror back at them what they need to see in order to survive. Your function in this relationship is to provide whatever reflection they can turn into fleeting self-worth and personality traits they can mimic. That's it.
The narcissist's entire life is a performance of one for one by one. Other people in these relationships are merely props to make the performance more believable and mirrors to reflect this performance to the only audience that matters, the narcissistic person themselves.They are infatuated with the reflections of themselves that they experience through other people's perception of them. They love the attention they receive, they love the verification of their reality and importance as a person, they love the reflection they are being shown of themselves, but they do not love the other person or people in the relationship because, like the mirror, they don't see the other person or people in the relationship. This is a person completely and totally fixated on themselves to the exclusion of everything else.
They are not capable of understanding the pain or Humanity of other people. the narcissists only gets with others to validate themselves and their own self worth...they need narcissistic supply for survival and you are an object, a resource to get this from...it's not about anything else but narcissistic supply and the quality of it and needing personality trats to mimic. You are basically a mirror for the narcissist that mirrors back to them either a good or bad image because they are unable to create one or see themselves without others.
Their condition that impairs the social neuronetworks of the brain. The very regions of the brain that handle how we relate, connect, empathize, manage our emotions, take accountability, reason (socially), inhibit impulses, and practice morality are dysfunctional in this population. In pathological narcissists we see the break-down of affective resonance in their inability to connect deeply with us. To feel with, for, and about us. Without empathy the relationship is shallow and everyone is disposable. And everyone is just as easily retrieved. They cannot connect and fulfill that deep desire we have to feel bonded to someone. They truly are empty black holes in that respect.There is no Empathy, Bonding , Appreciation, Trust & Honesty, Moral Reasoning & Care based morality, Respect & Boundaries, Emotional regulation, Accountability, Impulse control in Intimate relationships with pathological narcissists. They do not value or consider the emotions of their partner important. They value self only. Rather than love their partners, the deepest they can reach is to treat them like possessions or objects.
Because they objectify other people they view all people as objects that can be controlled, used, stolen, bought and sold on and owned, including themselves. They don't appear to understand any human beings as complete sovereign individuals with all their own needs, wants, feelings, beliefs, preferences or anything else. In many ways many narcissists are completely out of touch with their own needs, wants, beliefs, feelings and everything else about themselves. They're just walking around the world doing things and reacting to stuff without knowing why or caring. They're on automatic pilot repeating the same patterns and sequences and acting out the same melodramatic scenes over and over again throughout their lives. They often genuinely have no idea why they do things and legitimately no interest in finding out and many even seem afraid of trying to figure these things out.
People sometimes think that narcissists must be able to understand the feelings wants needs and beliefs of others if they can use them against you to upset you or manipulate you or create positive feelings in you, but the reality is that even a child of five or six can tell you what to do to make people like you or make them not like you or how to hurt somebody's feelings or get them to do what you want. It's not some secret power that narcissists have it's not magic and it requires no special skill or intelligence at all. Narcissists have learned what buttons to push to get what they want. It's just really not that difficult to do even kids can do it and it can be done very successfully by people who have no understanding of how it works at all. The only "skill" they truly need is a willingness to do it. The reason it's so effective is because you're actually fighting yourself. You're fighting your own feelings of guilt and shame or to hold on to your own fantasy or against your own cognitive dissonance.
Narcissists simply repeat what you've said to them in many situations and if it's effective for them, meaning if it leads to the result they wanted they will keep repeating it. .Neither idealization nor devaluation are about the other person at all. They include no realistic understanding of the other person in any way. they only have feelings for themselves..but they need other people to mirror. This really can be anything as every interaction with this kind of person will be processed into narcissistic supply.
You could be anybody or nobody to a narcissist, it's all the same. This is the extreme depth of this selfishness and the total egocentricity of the narcissistic personality. Other people do not exist to these personalities.The true Target of their behavior at every and any time is themselves and making themselves feel better. Your reaction is what narcissists are after and they're after it because of how it makes them feel. How it feels to you or how it affects you is not something these people even really see let alone understand consider or care about. Your reaction is not understood as being attached to an actual emotion or as something that affects you in any way. It is interpreted solely through the lens of how it affects them. It's not personal because you're not a person to them. You're a tool for a job and that's it.
I get hit on at the bars in Columbus, OH and most of them are married or in open relationships. Ugh. Walking away is the best advice I've ever had.
I have been with the same guy for 25 years and yes I hate the idea of OPEN relationships. Good on you. It is fraught with emotional lies. YUCK ....good on you. My man and I live a quiet life together and keep completely away from the so called gay scene.
@@oliverdownunder9397 I envy you but wish you and your man all the happiness! Still hanging on to hope!
@@denver_dude You will meet him. My advice is not to look. He will be there when you least expect it. Be happy in the meantime and just let the universe know that is your wish in the back ground. I also HATE smoking YUCK
I agree 100%.
I'm partnered and fully committed in a long-term relationship. We have been out together for dinner and/or a movie and several times I have been approached with obvious intentions of wanting a hookup. It makes me pissed as hell. Most of the time I'll say I'm not interested and turn away. A few times I've told them to get the hell away. It's annoying that so many gay men can be pigs and not want better for themselves and in turn the community.
In my view, open relationships are just ongoing hookups with no true commitment or love/respect for one another. But many will argue it's to each his own.
You're absolutely right on all points. Nothing good will be in your best interest.
I had someone tell me once, his opinion "If the relationship is open, the 2 guys are not compatible". I see this a lot on another app. "HAPPILY partnered", yes all the pictures are on one guy, shirtless.
If I'm just looking for a hookup, then a guy in an open relationship is no big deal. And that's pretty much what Grinder is used for. Personally I would never use that app if I was looking to establish an emotional connection with a guy.
I get your point, I'm not certain why it bothers me. I guess it makes me feel cheapened? It just turns me off. Sex also is not fun for me if it's 100% physical without any kind of intimacy, and I feel you're more likely to get that from a partnered guy who's presumably emotionally fulfilled at home (?).
so what app would you recommend to use for finding an emotional connection?
@@TheJerbolt2Christian Mingle
@@rockowilson2320 bahahaha
First mistake is seeking relationships on Grindr. Signed, a fellow gay man.
Even for a casual hookup, I too don't want to deal with men who are already in a relationship. It's kind of a turn-off once I know that, that person already has someone.
Did you even watch the whole video?
Kind of like going to a Japanese restaurant then complaining that spaghetti is not on the menu. These gen Zers crack me up.
@@waleed3103 yes and what is your point? Once again GRINDER is not the place for a relationship , whatever dude!
Well to be fair. I met my guy 15 years ago on Grindr.
Open relationship seems to be the new trend these days, it was never a thing from the ‘90s or early 2000s. The other day I was on the verge of hooking up with a guy and then he tells me can I ask my husband if he’s ok with this......I was like WTF! For me if I hook up with someone just for sex, I’d prefer that person to be single for the possibility of more to come afterwards if there is good chemistry.
The only reason why it wasn't so much in the 90/00's is due to the fear of AIDS, but it definitely was a thing before the AIDS plague. It's just going back to the "norm" again.
It was always a thing...nothing has changed
Thank you this is refreshing to hear someone say
Not a fan of the open-relationship, but that is just my preference. I haven't been in any kind of relationship in years due to the fact that my standards are a little high, but recently I have been wanting to dive back into the dating pool, but the apps are so bad and make me so self-conscious because I am not a "model" and those I send interests to are usually bots or not interested. Being in a big city (LA) is dreadful as guys are looking for the next best thing (whatever that is). I shy away from those who say "partnered" or "open relationships" because as you say, I don't want to get emotionally involved with someone, knowing that it will likely lead no where, or worse, cause a riff in their current relationship.
100% - unnecessary headaches to get involved in!
@benjaminschneider9682 I too live in LA. As a 57 year old guy who also isn't a model or gym rat, I'm mostly ignored. There have been some hot & wild hookups with sexy men at times. Grindr in LA is a relational dystopia. Craigslist was WAY more fun & productive back in the day.
Narcissism central floods you with compliments then ignores all of your needs and wants . Good for you dodging a horrible person . Stay true to you xx
I am amazed at the sheer number of folks, both men & women, who want the gold standard but only offer polished brass.
You want gold then offer gold.
Who's wanting gold - me or the guy in the story? 😅
@@KevenTalks Anyone who wants gold better be able to offer gold.
You, the guy in the story or anyone.
Babe - I offer gold, platinum, AND diamond 😉
@@KevenTalks And you are hot af. I would love a romp btw the sheets but it most likely will never happen.
I Agree 100%. I want a boyfriend of my own, not someone else's boyfriend.
Spot on….!!! I have no issues with someone being in an open relationship and disclosing that from the get go… then… if as a single person you decide to engage… you both know what to expect… but by not disclosing… they leave themselves open to a single person rejecting them simply because he wants to be with someone where he at least stands a chance of developing something more…. Seems pretty straight forward to me
I agree with you 100 percent. You are true to your needs, wants, and future desires. I hope to be the same as you based upon my own characteristics and future needs.
I would agree 100% and it's even worse when they are married to women and on Grindr. I am not interested in messing with anyone's marriage, especially those cheating on wives.
And sometimes the women know and want to watch or participate
Wrong place to look for a relationship.
Indeed, although it can and does happen. Gay male dating/hook-up sites are generally a hall of illusions. So-called "profiles" are merely reflective of an individual painting an idealized portrait of himself. Profiles are full of lies and fabrications.
Met my husband on Scruff 11 years ago, been married for 8 years. Worked for us, and we are NOT in an open relationship :)
@@FirstHillSeattle Love that :)
I think people are a bit jaded/judgey when it comes to apps...anything is possible, anywhere, anytime.
Meeting someone on an app is the new meeting someone at the bar. Some people are convinced there's no one "serious" found there, which is an enormous generalization.
If this was Grindr or another hookup app, I wouldn't assume anyone's being honest about things like relationship status. Since you're unlikely to meet their friends, family or anyone else in their life, it's impossible to know if they're partnered or not (unless you somehow access their social media). You'd be surprised how many guys looking for casual hookups on apps or cruising spots have wives and girlfriends at home, let alone male partners.
Those guys want the cake and eat it too while the rest of us are single for life.
Exactly. They never understand that we have a choice as well.
Bingo. Once they say they are in an open relationship or married to female and deep in the closet, I’m checked out. I’ve been in several situations in the past that went HORRIBLY wrong and very embarrassing for everyone. Done with that. Thank you, next...
This is why there is the block button . Next!
Thank YOU - THIS 100% this LOL All the closed relationship folks can't resist a good argument about how bad and wrong being open is.
Polyamory and open relationships are a thing for a lot of people in the gay community.
Good for you for sticking to your beliefs. You're a breath of fresh air!
I've been together with my partner for about 16 years and in a closed relationship. Sure there can be times where your tired of your partner, but I wouldn't trade him for anything( maybe Henry Cavill 😂). Imo, if you want an open relationship, you're probably not ready to settle down. Maybe those couples should reevaluate their relationship ? Maybe they're not with the right person, or not ready to settle down? I'm on the older side ( ancient, in the gay community, meaning over 50 haha!), but I had my fun and was ready for being with the same person for the rest of my life. Gays ( and straights ) need to listen to what their gut tells them and state right at the beginning , what they are looking for in a possible relationship! Don't stick with someone that doesn't make you happy, even if it means being alone for a while.
I feel like “to each his own” but he should have left you alone after you declined. Everyone on the apps should just respect boundaries . Otherwise , I’m not against hooking up with guys, when I was in the apps, that are partnered , married, whatever as long as they are transparent about it. But, let’s be for real, who’s really honest anymore really.
Dude this is not just a gay guy thing it's a guy thing in general. I would have immediately deleted and blocked him he would not have been able to reach out to me again. I'm just saying
I hate that too, but it’s all I meet anymore. And it never works, someone gets jealous or they blame you for ruining their relationship.That and straight guys who are experimenting but still want to have boyfriend benefits while they run after a woman the first chance they get. Ugh.
I agree with you you on this one. My boundary is not with the "open relationship" guys but the ones who say in their profiles they are "married". I won't go there. Period. I don't care if they are "married" to a man or a woman, if you take a sacred vow then treat it as a sacred vow or at least a serious commitment. (Making your spouse wonder all the time where you are and who you are with is not love as far as I'm concerned). However, this whole issue changes somewhat with age. In my age group (gay geezers) a lot of married men have long time partners who either have serious health problems or are dependent on their partners to act as caregivers. I make an exception for one of these guys as his partner is seriously disabled and they haven't had sex in years. The ones that really turn me off are the" look at me and how perfect my life is" braggarts who say in their profiles "I am married to the most awesome guy in the world" yet here they are scrolling for sex on a tacky hook-up site. That is not a marriage honey....it's just FWBs sharing the rent or gay room-mates who co-exist in the same home. If we as a community fought for the right to be legally married then at least take marriage seriously and don't make it a joke online..
I’ve had partnered men beg me on Grindr to hook up with them. It’s always awful and I just quit talking to them altogether. I’m not sure why that kind of thing happens, but it makes me super uncomfortable.
I feel, sadly, that so many would get with these kinds of guys simply because they dont feel like they can get a decent single guy. Reasons for this can range from low self esteem, past traumas, loneliness, and this list goes on. Considering how critical most of the gay community is towards each other and themselves, its no surprise that so many of us end up alone or in situationships like this mentioned in your video.
Your gonna end up alone anyway. Not you . But in general
It’s truly is a turnoff and they do it because they see everyone having the same attitude. That guy is so selfish, his only concern is himself.
Ah sweety, this is an old story, long before social media.
Keep your standards and respect yourself even if they don't.
I recently encountered a partnered guy on Grindr who was not looking for sex or a throuple relationship. He wanted someone to go to dinner with, see a concert, art exhibition, etc. So, I said, “you’re just looking for a platonic friend, it sounds like.” He said, no he was looking to actually date someone minus the physical intimacy and sex.
LOL WTF that seems even worse because he's asking for emotional intimacy essentially
@ exactly. I told him he and his husband need couples counseling if he feels like he has to seek emotional connection someplace else. Furthermore, what the hell is in it for me?
@@chowfun1976 Oop! That clap back! 👏
Grindr is Grindr, and boys will be boys. Avoid Grindr and avoid men in open relationships. I totally agree with you. I would have walked out.
Most Gay relationships are not like traditional (straight) relationships. I think it's fine for every gay man to set his own dating and relationship rules. Part of the dating process is communicating and understanding what is acceptable and what is not to all parties involved. What is unacceptable in your story is that the other guy did not accept your "No" or "Not interested" reply. As in the straight world, "No" still means "No." Please talk and listen!
Exactly! It's quite simple.
I think it comes from decades ago when there was a need to react against sexual oppression by being free …
but ultimately its resulted in a common attitude today that one can have ones cake and eat it to …
Keven, you are absolutely right in everything you say here. You are so right "enough that we have to use Apps like these to meet guys". These partnered guys have really cheapened the whole concept and meaning of partnership in life and even worse.....those who are married..... It also speaks of how selfish these guys are when they say "oh, it's alright...no one's getting hurst" but that is as you say "it's alright for them! What about me who specified, not interested in partnered guys!!"...Thank you so much for the videos (it's like listening to myself)
i agree these open relationships guys are greedy, selfish, and dirty.... i had met a few that would try to seduce guys in committed relationships so disgusting!!!
I get it that you want a connection with someone who could potentially be emotionally available. But he's telling you upfront that he's only looking for fun. There are plenty of single men who are emotionally unavailable and only looking for fun. As long as you find them a turnoff as well, that's fair.
But feelings don't have to be fair or logical. If you only want NSA with single men, that's valid. But men who are in open or poly relationships who are upfront about it are just as unavailable emotionally as many single men. The question is: if both of you are looking for something casual, what difference does it make that you know, upfront, that it's always going to be casual? Or do you just want to hold out the possibility that it could develop into something more?
Gay men in open relationships who remain active on dating apps for casual sex can, in my view, be categorized as either unhealthy or healthy.
Unhealthy Dynamics:
The unhealthy variety, in my opinion, often includes men who might otherwise be shy or socially awkward if they weren’t in a relationship. With a partner as an “anchor,” they feel less vulnerable and more emboldened to pursue others, as any rejection feels less consequential-they still have the safety net of their relationship. This is problematic for two main reasons:
1. Dishonesty with others: They’re often not upfront about their situation, which disrespects the people they’re engaging with.
2. Dishonesty with their partner: Casual, low-intent flirting might seem harmless, but if they truly connect with someone else, there’s a real chance they could leave their partner for the “right” person.
In this sense, such behavior feels fundamentally unhealthy. By contrast, someone like you, Keven-who is single, seeking meaningful connection, and unwilling to settle for an unfulfilling relationship-seems to reflect a more balanced and self-assured approach. Choosing to remain single rather than rely on a relationship as a crutch indicates emotional maturity and independence.
Healthy Dynamics:
That said, there is a healthier way to navigate open relationships while still seeking connections. This occurs when the openness is pursued with the partner, not separately. At the end of the day, we’re gay men, and for many of us, the idea of one partner being the last person we’ll ever sleep with might not feel realistic. However, the key is to approach this openness as a team.
Personally, I’ve struggled to execute this strategy in the past. As a more masculine guy who’s into twinkish types, I’ve found that the twinks who are into me typically don’t want to share their partner in situations where the attraction isn’t mutual. Similarly, I wouldn’t want to sleep with someone my partner wasn’t into. This creates challenges, but I still believe that an open relationship can work healthily if both partners are fully aligned and pursue their interests together, not apart.
Interesting take. Thanks for sharing this POV!
It seems to me that the most normal guys out there are the partnered ones--gay and straight. I would prefer not to be with partnered guys, but if not for them, I'd have no intimacy at all. Just too many single flakes out there.
I’ve been in a monogamous marriage with my husband for forty years. Yes, the sex is still good. Over the years, we’ve had couple friends in open relationships. None of them are still couples. Your eyes are beautiful. 😂 I can’t still look.
Thank you 🙏
Congrats on the 40 years!
We need more like you
💯 This is why you are the best relationship, yourself.
Guys like that get weird after you tell them no thanks!
lol 100%
As others here have said being partnered to someone emboldens someone to take chances since not as much to lose. I think with open relationships always the possibility someone finds someone more attractive or more successful so could make it easier to leave a relationship
Ive had those issues too. So kudos to you🎉glad I'm not the only one
Thank you for this!!! You are worthy of so much more!,!
🙏😘
I think you ultimately, even if it’s a hook up, are always wanting to leave open the possibility of it blossoming into something further, and having a boundary, that’s just not going to work with a partnered guy. I get it. I once hooked up with a bi guy. Amazing sex. However once he told me he would never date men and only used them for sex, I just became repulsed and stopped talking to him. I think people don’t realize if that even if they’re hooking up there’s still an emotional connection they’re looking for.
That's exactly it!
I'm in an open relationship, and have been for 25 years with the same guy. We met in 1999 and we got married, once it was legal on the federal level, in 2014. I think most guys on Grindr are just looking for a hookup and not necessarily looking for a life partner. There are social apps for gay men specifically looking for relationships. Grindr's not really one of them, IMHO.
But definitely if hooking up with somebody who you know is emotionally attached to someone else is a sexual turn off for you then cool. I totally get it. I just don't think most gay men are worried about that particular issue on Grndr.
Yeah, I may just be an outlier.
At the same time, I have it listed on my profile that I'm not interested in partnered guys.
I feel like if someone is partnered and sees that, they could mention it proactively if I reach out? 🤷🏻♂
No but the crazy thing is the ones who say they’re looking for “dates” like WTAF
What's so wrong with that? 😅
@@KevenTalks i think he means the partnered guys are looking for " dates"
Whether someone is in a monogamous or open relationship tells me very little about that person. It isn't even a reliable predictor of whether they are looking for sex outside of their relationship.
Guys looking for monogamy are not inherently "healthy" or "unhealthy". Guys looking for open relationships are not inherently "healthy" or "unhealthy". I find it silly to paint with a broad brush here. Both groups are far too large to draw any realistic conclusions about. If you're into monogamy, great. I'm happy that you know that about yourself so you can pursue what you want. People should respect that and move on. The person in your story isn't guilty of being in a open relationship, they're guilty of not respecting your boundary. But also it's an app: no "hints" state it plainly and then block if necessary.
I find these conversations always have a very judgy undertone about people who are not into monogamy. You can practice ethical nonmonogamy and unethical monogamy. A person can be a fantastic partner in an open relationship, and another person can be an awful partner in a monogamous relationship.
Last point: have you ever been with someone who was SUPER into monogamy? To the point they spit venom about characters in movies or tv shows that cheat... Only to find out they're not actually monogamous they just want their partner to be?
I totally agree with you!!
I think open relationship is only common for gay guys jn western countries
Yes most our friends have open relationships even those who have been together for 20+ years.Ruben and I are monogamous for 14 years of our 15 LTR!
Agree. I think it’s messed up. Relationships are hard. People mess up. But an open relationship is very hard to maintain. I’ve seen a very few that work. The fact that he suppressed the fact is part of the package.
You do you. I’m in an open relationship and if someone doesn’t want to pursue sex with me because of that, no hard feelings. However, I met guys who want to keep things platonic and we became good friends. I think it all depends on what you are looking for and the situation. You don’t owe anything to anyone you start talking to on the apps. People should respect your boundaries and needs and not be mad about it. However, if click with someone who’s in an open relationship, you might be missing out on a good friendship if you totally dismiss it.
That seems like an incredibly complicated friendship to me lol
@ it’s not , it’s just a friendship lol.
Keven... I had to say something on this video. I watch all your videos. This is a huge issue in our community. If this works for some... fine....but like you I am not into openness or sharing like this for many reasons. You do not know what is going on at home and the background.. You do not want to be involved in someone else's drama or situations as no one knows what is going on. No one wants to be placed under rules, situations or circumstances. This is why it is so challenging for so many to meet others who want something fulfilling. It can be frustrating on so many levels for everyone involved. This is why I am not with anyone myself because I was not willing to do this among other things.
Yes you bring up a great point about it potentially turning into a messy situation as well!
@@KevenTalks No one wants their property, career and life messed up being this situation. Is the person being honest about the fact they are in a open relationship is the first issue. You are smart enough to stay away from that drama.
If I'm looking for a relationship, then I want someone who is also single. If I'm just looking for a hookup, then as long as the other person is honest with their partner then I don't care. The real problem is if you are hooking up to kind of "interview" men with the possibility of transitioning that into a relationship(which a LOT of men do). In that case, you may need to rethink your strategy. Either way, I think that there should be an option in your profile that indicates if you are open to guys in relationships. I know some apps have it, but most don't.
I can totally relate. It's really annoying 😒
Everything you said is fine you're allowed to have your own feeling - you could have and probably should have just blocked him and moved on. It's not as complicated as you're making it out to be. A lot of guys in the community are open and you're getting insulted by them trying to explain their lifestyle to you while not being clear about why you're not interested is wasting your and their time.
lol ok Scott 🤡
When you become an old man like me, you will no longer take gay men seriously. They are a waste of time and exhausting. But regretfully I'm old and bitter.
Your eyes are stunning.
Thank you 🥹
I've never really understood this concept of open relationships. It's like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want the feeling of security that a partner brings and you want the flings. It's ridiculous. You did the right thing, for sure.
I agree and used that same expression below somewhere in the comments, but by the way, each time I use it, I realize how absurd of a saying it is - wouldn't you want to eat a cake if you have it? Like what else would you do with it? 😂
@@KevenTalks 🤣
I used to work for gay men that were in open relationships but whom were legally partnered with eachother but still looked for other guys on apps and in person... as a gay man I never understood this because personally the man that I chose would be enough for me to not try to look for someone else..my ex actually fulfilled me ...I wasn't even interested in other guys when I was with him and vise versa...so I don't get the whole open relationship thing...its a bad rep and I feel like the gayzzz need to stop this potentially destructive behavior ...be content with only one partner gentlemen
I can understand people entering an open relationship after years of commitment to 1 person and that excitement/lust fading - perhaps you have created a life together and want to "have your cake and eat it too"...that being said, I want no part in it - so I feel like if I make that clear (like on an app) - then leave me alone! 🤦🏻♂
@@KevenTalks say it louder for the people in the back...lol
just block that guy
I'm on scruff (no grindr). 100%, common (at least in the bay area) - a vast # of gay relationships are open based on my experience w/ this app. Which doesn't bother me as much as this idea that men can be in committed to someone else and still be on a hookup app because they want more. They got theirs and its not enough. Yet folks like me who've struggled with dating/finding that needle in the haystack, which is what it feels like being queer/gay and trying to date - we live among billions of people yet dating can often feel lonely and futile. And if you don't fit the mold of physical beauty standards in gay culture its even harder. Again, no issues with open relationships but dang does this status seem way too common with gay men. And who the F knows if they have a mutual agreement with their partners - i imagine there are portion of them that don't. I state in my profile that i am not looking to hookup with men in open relationships' or their husbands which i'm sure cuts down a big # of men who reach out to me (which is little to none LOL). Sorry for the paragraph - turns out i have something to say about his topic. 😉
Partnered Queers are Emotionally not available. Just leave them in Peace. Forever. 🖤😎👍
Keven I agree.🌷⚡️💪🏻 ✌️&💛
to you and yours.
Most of them are married men! Married to women and sneaking about behind the wife/girlfriend back.
I agree with all of your points.
If your profile emphasizes INTO SINGLE ONLY and you ignore anyone not providing complete info in theirs, then this type of conversation theoretically would not happen. Obviously, a profile can be complete and full of lies, but at least you can skip anyone intentionally not disclosing by leaving a field blank.
Sometimes people just don't fill out their bio. I've learned it's not worth assuming - so it's worth it to always ask.
@@KevenTalks It's all your call how you handle it of course. I perceive incompleteness as a general red flag and factor it into my conclusions about someone displaying it. Thanks for the thought-provoking presentation on this subject.
Such a strange new thing!! It wasn’t like that 6/7 years ago
Odd you don't ask about relationship situation right at the beginning. Maybe things have changed a lot, but back in the day you asked right away.
Well I see the problem: he led one on without REVEALING HIMSELF FULLY ❤
ODE TO BE HONEST I GET IT
Why didn’t you just block him when he continued?
You are right!
Honestly, just block him. There are plenty of people who aren't in open relationship that doesn't understand they can be rejected either and can be pretty hostile. And plenty of guys in open relationship who are respectful of boundary. When it comes to grindr, the amount of bs on it, open relationship is literally the least of my worries. Rampant racism, crazy @ss fetish, and other nonsense that it isn't even worth being on there.
Yes but baby's got a libido! 😅
PS love your channel! 🪴
Hi! Your video kept getting sent to me, so I decided to watch (cursed algorithm). This is my take: I’m three months shy of fifty and married; if I had to date now, I would outright refuse. It’s because of the apps. I think a lot of users report dissatisfaction because those are the people seeking intimacy (anyone can get sex; sex is an easy pursuit), but the apps are designed to keep you engaged and using-or they don’t make money. Your constant pursuit of intimacy is the engine. I hope you find someone who wants you and only you. Take it, leave it, but I fully understand your frustration.
I agree.
It is understandable that you are annoyed about the challenges of dating. However, you think that partnered that ethically non-monogamous men are comparable to smokers? One guy in the comments said they are narcissists!? This is "interesting". Do you have straight friends? Do you understand how much infidelity they deal with? I think you are going about your frustrations in the wrong way.
You were disappointed that you finally met a decent guy and he was partnered and that's not your preference but I don't think this video or these comments will age well. You should also consider reading a bit more about this and using curiosity to maybe inform you opinion. You even have the opportunity to ask the same guys questions instead of telling people how unattractive they are. There's a famous book called Sex at Dawn the talks about the origin of marriage and modern sexuality. I don't want to assume you haven't read it but it doesn't seem so. Heck there I also article son Psychology Today and other trust worthy places.
As a gay person you know how it feels to be ostracized and made to feel disgusted. It may be good to tap into that at this time.
Keven, my husband and I hope that you get your box checked vigorously and regularly.
YES lets talk about it. I am 1000000% turned off and disgusted by married guys who are my neighbors in Provincetown when I'm at my summer home there act like they are madly in love and yet are on Grindr 24/7 looking for sex. I don't understand how two people can stand on an alter in a church and take vows in front of their loved ones, then go do that and act like it's "normal". I would NEVER allow someone to disrespect me like that in a million years. I also believe that a person in a relationship who treats another person he wants to hook up with like a sex object he can use and then discard is dehumanizing and wrong on every level. I am personally disgusted with these people and would never even associate with them as I find their behavior repulsive. Keven you are a class act. Stick to your values and NEVER lower your standards.
LOL I find that comical myself. My friend tells this story of being on a group trip with other gay guys - one of them was on his phone the entire time checking Grindr (while his partner was there - open relationship) - and then at the end of the trip, he proposed to his partner 🤣
I love open relationships ❤
I find that people who are partnered are often uninhibited socially.
as in like they're subconsciously fighting against what the other person wants them to be?
@ They are out of the “hunt” and are not posing or hiding. They seem relaxed and therefore, more attractive. Ironically.
right because they have that " safety neck" of having their husband back home. so they can take risks and it really doesn't matter which way it goes. For single guys , being more careful and more inhibited makes more sense because at the end of day you're by yourself .
I have no idea who you are or why you ended up on my feed and I am 26 seconds into your video and had to stop...If you are being charmed on any app, especially Grinder, you are just as bad! I am not even going to watch the rest of the video as it's irrelevant. If you want better, be better. Of you want more, be more. Don't hope for a good man, hope that YOU are ready for a good man! You clearly aren't ready to be in a monogamous relationship!
I'm seeing a married to a woman guy in secret, get to go to his house when his wife is away for days at a time for work.
First