Recovery Gear Labelling blog post & petition l2sfbc.com/lets-start-rating-4x4-recovery-gear-properly/ Original Tow Hitch video ruclips.net/video/6Ts_-iEENPU/видео.html Recovery forces ruclips.net/video/NfCHKEeqrIw/видео.html
This type of regulatory body exists and functions well in the climbing/mountaineering equipment industry. UIAA is is its name. By the way, all climbing gear ratings are in Newtons, never kg or lb. There are also plenty of educational RUclipsrs showing break-tests of different climbing gear whichis really great for educating users or correct use of the equipment.
Thanks, that's what we need! Yes kN is the SI unit, but people don't know what a newton is. They know what a lb or kg is. The actual unit is less important than consistency, and also then kg can be matched to vehicle weight.
I agree this is a mess. Unfortunately, I think it will remain that way as I don't expect to see a proper Standard in our future. It is also somewhat unfortunate in my view that the average person, outside of science and engineering, misuses kg as a unit of force! In the Imperial system the unit of force is the pound force (lb or lbf) and the International system (SI) the unit of force is the newton (N). Kilogram (kg) id the unit of mass in the SI system. So to use the SI system, which most countries now use, the recovery gear should be rated in newtons, not kilograms, but that will most likely confuse many of your viewers. Thanks Robert, keep up the good work.
Exactly right. I don't want to see newtons as you say nobody knows what a newton is. But everyone has a concept of a kilogram or pound. So we look at what people understand rather than being precise about SI units. The purpose is safety not scientific and engineering precision.
Great video. Think about doing a high risk work license Dogman. I'm a rigger. If this is a passion of yours you might invest in learning how to apply lifting standards.
i am definitely listening to videos like this to try and set myself up for safety. . . like many many many i would love to get to destinations like Stockton and the islands like frazer and hopefully take my old man if his health permits. But. Especially when i see all the amazing rigs Rolling around i am still unsure if my little 4wd is capable to do it, without it being a full time recovery job and not making it to a destination. it's a terracan with 30" tyres. everything underneath i would say is close to the diff clearance, fuel tank etc. I would be able to confidently fit a 32 skinny, but it is not legal in nsw atleast. I can't see any benifit of a lift kit (the shocks themselves are already branded aftermarket), i can get front and rear lockers (elec/air/lunch) ... but atleast for sand driving it all sounds like it would likely be ineffective for beach stuff.
Maximum breaking strength is the most deceptive term. Why would I care what the strongest sample in the batch breaks at? It's like saying there's a 9/10 chance that this WILL break below this number... They always like to advertise it as "MBS" also, so you're likely to confuse it with minimum break strength.
What are your thoughts about the safety of winching with a hi lift as you demonstrated with your previous video? In that you are in line with the vehicle and anchor point. I have the hi lift kit which comes with chain, which I think would just sink to the ground. My main concern would be steel objects coming off the tow vehicle if something breaks. my guess would be to attach to as secure points as possible and use soft shackles whenever possible. Do you concurr?
Winching manually is relatively safe as the forces aren't as great as with a power winch, and the force is applied very slowly. In my mud recovery there was little force, so even safer. That said, every recovery has an element of risk.
@@L2SFBCI can't help but think that manual winching with a Tirfor ticks some of those 7 tips hard. The immediate and quantified feedback from a winch handle is so much more (and safer) than listening to an electric winch.
On Yankum the mbs is not maximum breaking strength, it is minimum breaking strength. All their ratings are tested and given in minimum breaking strength.
@@L2SFBCOn that basis just having a kinetic rope seems to be the apex choice rather than having a shovel. I have it in my mind that Marlow Ropes "invented" the KERR (Kinetic Energy Recovery Rope) for the British Army. It was only for use on armoured vehicles and never for use on soft skinned vehicles.
@@sakomeowlet’s take things regulated by government. Constant recalls and poisoning with foods. Medicines constant fakes, oops that shot caused blood clots, oops that weight loss caused heart issues. Cars constant recalls. How bout them multiple airplane accidents and near misses this week? Oh the imported toys that got kids sick. All “government regulated” Yeah I’ll stick to my free industry gear I see used, I see tested that I didn’t skimp on with cheap chinese junk while you pay higher taxes for “government regulated” still failing gear
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
Recovery Gear Labelling blog post & petition l2sfbc.com/lets-start-rating-4x4-recovery-gear-properly/
Original Tow Hitch video ruclips.net/video/6Ts_-iEENPU/видео.html
Recovery forces ruclips.net/video/NfCHKEeqrIw/видео.html
Great points! I keep track of my own gear but the problem is when you use other people's gear that you have not seen before.
Good point 👍
Keep up the good work. User be aware and be safe.
This type of regulatory body exists and functions well in the climbing/mountaineering equipment industry. UIAA is is its name. By the way, all climbing gear ratings are in Newtons, never kg or lb. There are also plenty of educational RUclipsrs showing break-tests of different climbing gear whichis really great for educating users or correct use of the equipment.
Thanks, that's what we need! Yes kN is the SI unit, but people don't know what a newton is. They know what a lb or kg is. The actual unit is less important than consistency, and also then kg can be matched to vehicle weight.
I agree this is a mess. Unfortunately, I think it will remain that way as I don't expect to see a proper Standard in our future.
It is also somewhat unfortunate in my view that the average person, outside of science and engineering, misuses kg as a unit of force! In the Imperial system the unit of force is the pound force (lb or lbf) and the International system (SI) the unit of force is the newton (N). Kilogram (kg) id the unit of mass in the SI system.
So to use the SI system, which most countries now use, the recovery gear should be rated in newtons, not kilograms, but that will most likely confuse many of your viewers.
Thanks Robert, keep up the good work.
Exactly right. I don't want to see newtons as you say nobody knows what a newton is. But everyone has a concept of a kilogram or pound. So we look at what people understand rather than being precise about SI units. The purpose is safety not scientific and engineering precision.
Absolutely correct . There DOES need o be some Standardisation of SWL's , WLL's and Breaking strains Etc .
Yes but not SWL, that is an old term replaced by WLL so there is no implication it is a safe load.
Great video.
Think about doing a high risk work license Dogman.
I'm a rigger. If this is a passion of yours you might invest in learning how to apply lifting standards.
How timely, I was just about to start a deeper investigation into this topic.
Please do!
I think recovery/traction boards should have it own segment as per the orginal Getabout Training Services version of the Hierarchy of Recovery.
Why?
@@L2SFBC To keep them front of mind. How offend do you see video of crazy kinetic recoveries and boards are on the roof rack not utilised.
i am definitely listening to videos like this to try and set myself up for safety. . .
like many many many i would love to get to destinations like Stockton and the islands like frazer and hopefully take my old man if his health permits.
But. Especially when i see all the amazing rigs Rolling around i am still unsure if my little 4wd is capable to do it, without it being a full time recovery job and not making it to a destination.
it's a terracan with 30" tyres. everything underneath i would say is close to the diff clearance, fuel tank etc. I would be able to confidently fit a 32 skinny, but it is not legal in nsw atleast. I can't see any benifit of a lift kit (the shocks themselves are already branded aftermarket), i can get front and rear lockers (elec/air/lunch) ... but atleast for sand driving it all sounds like it would likely be ineffective for beach stuff.
I have driven Terracans offroad. They go well. They can handle K'gari, Stockon no problem. Review my Sand Driving Principles video for how to drive.
How come no rating for hitch pins? (holding hitch receiver and recovery hitch together) Seems like shear forces could be a thing?
There is but it's not printed. AS4177 covers it.
Either stamp or use permanent marker to put WLL in Kgs for all your gear.
Usually nylon or.poly slings WLL x5 is Breaking strain roughly anyway
Good idea!
Maximum breaking strength is the most deceptive term. Why would I care what the strongest sample in the batch breaks at? It's like saying there's a 9/10 chance that this WILL break below this number... They always like to advertise it as "MBS" also, so you're likely to confuse it with minimum break strength.
What are your thoughts about the safety of winching with a hi lift as you demonstrated with your previous video? In that you are in line with the vehicle and anchor point. I have the hi lift kit which comes with chain, which I think would just sink to the ground. My main concern would be steel objects coming off the tow vehicle if something breaks. my guess would be to attach to as secure points as possible and use soft shackles whenever possible. Do you concurr?
Winching manually is relatively safe as the forces aren't as great as with a power winch, and the force is applied very slowly. In my mud recovery there was little force, so even safer. That said, every recovery has an element of risk.
@@L2SFBCI can't help but think that manual winching with a Tirfor ticks some of those 7 tips hard. The immediate and quantified feedback from a winch handle is so much more (and safer) than listening to an electric winch.
There’s no such thing as overkill. When in doubt, use the biggest strongest equipment available.
I've got a ball/pintle hitch combo. Any thoughts for use as recovery?
On Yankum the mbs is not maximum breaking strength, it is minimum breaking strength. All their ratings are tested and given in minimum breaking strength.
Oops sorry my mistake!
I always question why you'd use a kinetic recovery if you've followed the hierarchy and failed with a winch?
Because you may not have a winch or an anchor point.
@@L2SFBCOn that basis just having a kinetic rope seems to be the apex choice rather than having a shovel.
I have it in my mind that Marlow Ropes "invented" the KERR (Kinetic Energy Recovery Rope) for the British Army. It was only for use on armoured vehicles and never for use on soft skinned vehicles.
Am I correct that all of this weight capacity regardless of kilograms/pounds and snatch blocks/soft shackles etc are for a VERTICAL lift.
No
So the only thing to do is take the marked rating and use 80% of it to be safe.
Depends. If the marked rating is a WLL of 50% then you can use up to WLL. If it is an MBS then use 50% of the rating!
The majority of recovery gear is designed solely to part the novice 4wd owner from their hard earned cash...
Some truth there but only some.
As long as you’re not saying get the government involved
I'd prefer not, I'd like the industry to self-regulate. Except that rarely happens, so the government has to step in.
Enjoy your free market 20k straps breaking at 4k
@@sakomeowlol and you think government will solve it all😅
@@L2SFBC”has to”
It’s not like this is new stuff that hasn’t been around for decades without them
@@sakomeowlet’s take things regulated by government. Constant recalls and poisoning with foods. Medicines constant fakes, oops that shot caused blood clots, oops that weight loss caused heart issues. Cars constant recalls. How bout them multiple airplane accidents and near misses this week? Oh the imported toys that got kids sick. All “government regulated”
Yeah I’ll stick to my free industry gear I see used, I see tested that I didn’t skimp on with cheap chinese junk while you pay higher taxes for “government regulated” still failing gear