It's a measure of computational power, but to what extent do TFLOPs actually define gaming performance? Rich reveals all. Subscribe for more Digital Foundry: bit.ly/DFSubscribe
I think it's important to note just how important CPU is here. Your video hints at it, but it's a lot more than you might be thinking. On PC you have a lot of games primarily focusing on GPU, but that's because hardware based optimization isn't really possible there, so developers push as much as they can to the GPU. Not only that, but people have CPUs that far exceed requirements on PC. This results in games being far more GPU bound on PC than you ever get on console. When you know the specs, it's fairly easy to get a console running at 100% CPU and 100% GPU nearly all of the time. What this means is that if you only increase the GPU, you're not going to get an FPS increase *at all* because the CPU is going to bottleneck you, because there was no additional room for improvement there, and a maxed out CPU caps GPU performance. The Neo is seeing only a 30% CPU improvement. This means that if a game currently runs at 30fps, the *most* you can expect from the Neo version is 40fps, and no developer will uncap a 40fps game. So you're not going to magically see 30fps games becoming 60fps on Neo. If you ever see future games that are 30fps on PS4 and 60fps on Neo, you can be certain the PS4 version was gimped in terms of CPU utilization to make this possible. I think the major area the developers are going to use the extra GPU power is in resolution, as resolution increases really don't impact the CPU at all. They'll simply use the small bump in CPU power to get stabler frame rates.
5 years later.....can confirm that this is exactly what ended up happening. Hopefully the Zen chips in the new consoles can give us 60 fps until the end of the generation.
@@roshanpaul1184 What I was saying was very specific to the Pro, because every Pro game is optimized around the base console. The Pro was an expansion over games optimized on weaker hardware, so how that affects performance is relative to that base hardware. When you have new games built specifically for new consoles, their performance is entirely up to developers. As for 60fps, no matter how powerful the hardware is, it's always beneficial for developers to choose 30fps as their frame rate instead of 60fps, because it gives them twice the amount of time on the CPU and GPU to process their code. This means better graphics, but it also means things like better AI, physics, more complex level design, better world simulation, better animation, etc. Those things tend to be bigger sellers for games than more frames per second. Every single console in history has been equally capable of 60fps, because it's entirely a choice by the developer. It's not like on PC where you make a game and then just see how it runs. On console, you know exactly what hardware you're working with, and you can design the entire game around that. You want 60fps? There's nothing stopping you, no matter what hardware you're working with. Because at the start of development, you have nothing in your game, so you have infinite frames. All you need to do is pay attention to your performance each time you add something to your game. Once it drops below 60fps, you take that thing out. From there, you can work on optimizing your existing code until there's more room leftover to bring it back, or perhaps shifting things from CPU to GPU or the other way around to make more room where you need it, and if you can't ever make enough room to bring that thing back, just leave it for the PC version. However, because as I said, 30fps gives developers a lot more freedom and results in a game that's a lot more impressive, giving the biggest examples of generation-over-generation leap, I believe you will always be seeing 30fps games, no matter how powerful any hardware gets. The reason you're not seeing that right now is because all of the current games spent most of their development before current gen dev kits existed, so they were built around the last gen consoles and only modified for current gen in the last year or so. The reason that results in more 60fps games this time around is developers don't also have to port that code to a different architecture like they did in previous generations, which caused poorly optimized code to run poorly. Now games that were designed around 30fps for last gen consoles run at 60fps on current gen without any work needed to make it happen. Starting around the end of next year though, that's when you'll start seeing games that spent most of their development time on current gen dev kits. From then on, you'll see a lot of 30fps games with no options whatsoever for 60fps. If it didn't happen right away, eventually a big game would do it, resulting in visuals and gameplay that blows people's minds (and we aren't anywhere close to that level yet), and other games would have to compete with what people expect out of these consoles now and also do 30fps to achieve that. Except, developers already know that would happen, so they're already preparing to make full use of their bigger frame budgets by choosing 30fps.
@@randyrrs7028 the 10% CPU boost of the PS5 Pro is actually off by default, as turning it on reduces GPU power. Most games will see zero performance improvements whatsoever as they'll only be using a GPU upgrade, and can only make use of that as a resolution boost, not an improvement of performance or graphics. In most cases what I'm seeing is that they actually use the SAME resolution or even lower than the base PS5, and just hope AI upscaling makes up the difference. Problem is AI upscaling doesn't actually add any detail if you're already using a temporal upscaling method like FSR or TSR. It will resolve those details in a cleaner and sharper way, but it's ultimately the same level of detail So for the vast majority of PS5 Pro games you will get the same performance, the same resolution, and maybe a small improvement in picture quality due to AI upscaling. It's a bad product. However, even if they turn on the CPU boost, it will have a negligible impact. May be useful for the occasional dropped frame but that's about it.
@@AndyGilleand so those expecting 60fps on games like gta6 will be very disappointed then, i think its best to wait for a ps6 because it will obviously have a much better cpu to run it at 4k 60fps. Id imagine the ps6 will have pssr 2.0 + frame gen equivalent
I mean I'm more of a ps defender since it gets so hated right now, but the tflops between PS5 XBOXSX can be compared, bevause they are both based on RDNA2
@@casdf7 Doesn't mean the real world performance will reflect the difference. This is a custom architecture layout for both consoles and how they handle computations are different. The underlying base architecture may be foundationally similar but the system as a whole is not the same and therefore makes the comparison ultimately worthless. If it was just the GPU by itself, sure. But it's not. The SSD speeds in ps5 are incredibly fast and makes up some difference in performance. It needs less future data stored which means more available vram. More available vram means more stored next to the GPU which means faster and cheaper access which equates to lower rendering costs per frame which improves rendering time aka fps. Is it drastic? Fundamentally yes. Will it make a difference? A little but not enough to overcome the pure Core count of Series X. But it's also precisely the reason you cannot compare console power unless it's identical implementation. The TFLOPs equation is so basic it honestly means very little even between identical architectures. You can look at a spec sheet between the same family of architecture and be able to tell what is faster. TFLOPs only tells a theoretical compute performance output. Games are not entirely compute based. They are graphic/compute based. Which further makes the gaming performance numbers people come up with as useless. Nobody but the game developer knows what computations are being used at any given moment.
Floating-point operations per second. Teraflop: a trillion floating-point operations (instruction+execution+output result). The GPU needs all those floating-point calculations to determine the coordinates of vertices (points on a triangle) for polygons and textures, and pixel coordinates in 3D space to apply shaders. Floating-point: a number value with a decimal point (whole number+fraction) that the processor can recognize and work with for arithmetic logic. The measurement is only for peak theoretical performance at best case scenarios (which are never actually met in games).
You guys, Richard's not actually wearing his glasses crooked. The density of knowledge inside his skull is so high that space-time is locally distorted and straight lines are redefined
After researching for video cards to buy I stumbled into this channel, and from that point forward I love it. I love how you guys at DigitalFoundry are not bias and give straight up answers and tell the truth about products. I just introduced myself into PC gaming recently after over 20 years of console only gaming... Thank you for all your hard work.
DigitalFoundry this is the clean up video to satisfy the PS fans since y'all been saying the little extra power mattered for 3 years! Now that the Neo will be less powerful it don't! I've seen every comparison video and y'all say the little percent on the Xbox side is always troubling! Now y'all gone clean it up and say Neo games run good compared to the SPEC! Which I agree with except y'all should have been saying that for Xbox being that it has a weaker GPU and DDR3 Ram, which is doesn't make them equal! Also I was waiting for this video cause I know you had to make it! For your fan base! PS only people made you big cause they like anything that seemingly bashes Nintendo and Microsoft instead of enjoying there games!! Healthy competition helps gaming grow and stay strong I'm out!!!
If you think they are biased to PS , why are you here watching every comparing video and making a comment that sounds like you are crying from your inside , you totally didn't watched DF back in last gen when Most of multiplatform games run better on Xbox 360 , and the comment section were full of Xbox fanboys making comments about how they cock riding that Xbox 360 is better and blah bla bla , and now you saying DF is Biased to PS?... Pathetic...
+Russell Morton cool let me know where you got to play them at! I think maybe 4K 30fps but I don't care my LG 70 in 4K HDR pro upscale anyway so my PS4 and XBO look good on it!
I have been PC Gaming since the 90's. Never heard of a teraflop, it was never used to compare videocard performance until it was used as some excuse to claim the mid-gen upgrade consoles like 1X are somehow as powerful as high end PC's even though the actual performance of games when we got our hands on the 1X are not as good as an above average modern gaming PC.
CUDA is used to measure GPU power. I have no idea why Microsoft and Sony used it so heavily. I never heard of it either until MS started using it to brag about the X1X, they however neglected to tell the world the huge bottlenecked in the form of that processor it had which prevented it from being able to put out more than 30fps in most games. It's funny because my old GTX 970 at the time could perform better and had 4 tflops.
TeraFLOPs are a more useful figure than either of those in 2016, but still aren't the whole story. I fully expect Scorpio to be the more powerful overall console, if only because they've known the Neo specs for months, and had a clear target to surpass. I also don't expect either console will be powerful enough for "true" 4K gaming, though I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
Youre right. There is no "true" 4k gaming. Its a design decision, which must be made by the game developers. If the developers decide to use the whole Power of the Xbox Scorpio for 1080p Games, the PC-Gamer will not be able anymore to play those games in 4k! Just because the performance gap of the systems will be again much smaller. Thats the reason why i do not buy a 4k screen. Its just too early imo.
+Laguna So just because a console game is in 1080p a pic player can't play that game in 4K? There are no games in 4K on a console right now and you can play pretty much any game in 4K on pc. I don't see your point.
No developer will create a game within the next year or two at least that takes full advantage of the Scorpio's hardware at 1080p. Unless MS has a program to replace XB1's for a very cheap price and have the Scorpio retail price be very low, ($400 or so) then developers will continue to focus their effort on PS4/XB1/PC instead of the Scorpio because of the market share.
You think PC. Remember that with controlled hardware they can optimize games. Also depends on type of games. Even iPadPro with 3.5K have a bunch of games. Hardware power is actually useless in real world. Optimization, acceleration, OS overhead are key. Thats why for example RISC hardware with 1/3 compute power outperforms PCs in common tasks like video encoding.
I have never heard a tech reviewer doing a video card review mention teraflops, just heard it about consoles like it was the utmost important thing. Kindai curious as to what the teraflops were for a Titan and top end processor circa 2016 compared to a console.
It really means nothing. The Xbox series X has 4 TFLOPs while the X1X had 6, yet the series S outperforms the 1X is almost any game. Thats the proof right there that TFLOP is just a figure on a sheet of paper much like the height of a building is. I've never seen Nivida brag about the 3090 having 28 tera wanks of power. They go off CUDA
A 50% increase in TFlop is not that big, besides 6Tflop from AMD isnt enough for 4K. AMD's Fury X ~9 TFlop has trouble at 4K. How will their 6Tflop fare? 4K gaming is unpractical. Lower resolutions with higher graphical fidelity and AA is better. Ex. 1080P Ultra 60Fps > 4K(UHD) medium 30Fps
4k is easier to market than higher frame rates and richer textures and AA. Most people believe more pixels is better regardless of viewing distance, screen size, which actually are huge factors in 4k benefits. Telling someone about frame rate and textures and AA would instantly disinterest them because it's too complicated. It can't be marketed easily. 4k on the other hand can. 4k isn't affordable, and won't be for at least 2 more years. I suspect very few games will run native 4k 30 fps on Scorpio, while most at 1440p/1080p at 30 or 60 fps combinations up-scaled to 4k.
4k gaming is actually quite nice. even if at 30fps and max settings. Rise of the Tomb Raider being a good example still looks fantastic at 4k 30fps max settings or with a mix of mostly high and some medium settings 60fps at 4k. either way you're getting a fantastic looking experience.The most significant hits to fps comes often from effects that don't dramatically increase image quality. We need video's like DF and Candyland supply to actually get a feel for just how different the game looks at different settings, but even on medium or high settings games like RotTR are amazing looking titles.People keep saying the gtx 1080 or gtx 1070 can't do 4k because in a few games at completely max settings they fail to hit 60fps consistently yet with literally lowering a few settings they easily hit that mark.Everyone just seems obsessed with the term ultra.
the rx480 can play 4k games at around 30fps ultra. Scorpio should be able to pull it off, especially if games are optimised for consoles or developed by first party studios specifically. Plus the hardware Scorpio is using isn't even out yet, we don't know how much of a difference it will make, TFLOPS means little when compared to other factors.
the PS4 neo will come out this year, the Xbox Scorpio will come out the end of next year. The PS4 neo will be cheaper, while the Xbox Scorpio will be more expensive and after 1x year of selling the PS4 neo, Sony will easily drop it's price even further when the Scorpio launches, thus making the PS4 neo even cheaper.
TFLOPS from AMD aren't a necessarily unequal, they're just made differently. AMD's architecture is quite powerful, not really made for gaming but rather raw computation. Games don't take advantage of AMD's hardware, yet. We're seeing Vulkan and DX12 help AMD out, but it's going to take a while for them to catch up, ie the rest of 2016 and into 2017.
NVidia does not have the manufacturing capability of AMD. AMD has their own foundry, GlobalFoundries to produce their GPUs at. NVidia contracts TSMC to make theirs and is stuck waiting behind bigger customers like Apple to get new technology. AMD also allows companies to custom design chips to be produced at their foundries. AMD also provides their technology for a much cheaper price. AMD makes very little money off the game consoles, they essentially break even. AMD uses the game consoles as leverage for more developers to use AMD optimizations on the PC for their games.
+Shane “The Real Slim Shaney” Stacy amd doesn't actually has their own foundry now,most of their GPUs are made by tsmc or Samsung,even the new Zen CPU will be produced by samsung
This is a perfect video for every console gamer that has a youtube channel that keeps using the world tera flops... the idiocy level should drop a bit with this video. good job DF
Teraflops should be meaningless, but performance still scales rather linearly with flops. It's kinda like an IQ score. It correlates with, but does not dictate ability.
USMAN HUSSAIN Because flops correlates with, but does not dictate ability. Because each card has different strengths and weaknesses. Because the game is more optimized for one architecture over another.
Normally I criticize DF's videos for their tendency to get facts wrong consistently without correcting themselves. This video however was good and DIDN'T end up saying that Tflops is a good measurement for performance like I tend to see elsewhere. Good job with keeping this video reasonably factual without misinformation.
It's like with horsepower. Two similar cars in weight etc can be compared with their HP. A truck and a F1 car on the other hand... At the end it's the driver! 😉
I can go deeper. Look at the v8. In the 1960s, they got 280 Hp out of one. Now they can get over 300 hp out of a straight 4. It's not just the graphics card thats important, it's the entire system.
RX480/5.8Teraflops=Equal perfomance to R9 390X and almost equal to GTX 980(But with driver support it will pass the GTX 980 by much) RX 470/5.0Teraflops=That means it will be very close to RX 480. That means it will be equal to GTX 970/R9 390 and with driver support it will pass both of them). Mature drivers, you know..
I'm glad they cleared the whole tflops thing up. I always found it so stupid when people where comparing scorpio to 980ti just because it has 5.6 tflops not knowing the Amd fury x has 8.6 and are pretty much equal in terms of gaming performance 980 ti wins some and fury x others.Phil spencer likened the scropio to gtx 980 non ti .IOnly console players start drooling when they heard 6 tflops but us pc guy already knew 6 tflops barrier was already accomplished back in 2013 with Amd r9 290x. I hated trying correct to tell people ,now I see i'll point them to this video.
why should they switch to the almighty cash grabbers? Zen seems to be 70-80% better per clock than Piledriver and piledriver is 50-60% better than jaguar per clock.
RattleHead, Buddy... hellfire baited you good. Also, you have to consider cost. It has to be 'affordable', otherwise no one will buy it. There's no point putting in an i5 and a 970 when that'll set them back more than the price of a console; without including the case, PSU, usb, ethernet, OS, optical drive, assembly, shipping, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT TERAFLOPS IM GETTING A NEO BECAUSE PLAYSTATION HAS GAMES IN ACTUALLY INTERESTED INTO THERES ALSO RUMORS IF THE NEO BEING 5.5 TERAFLOPS ACTUALLY WELL SEE🎮💯💯
In theoretical peak performance, yes. However, power =/= consumer choice. Scorpio will be more expensive than Neo as a result of increased performance. Price is a much bigger determinant when purchasing a console than performance. By the time Scorpio releases not even 20% of consumers will have 4k TVs. Saying even half of those 4k TV owners would buy a Scorpio is an extremely generous estimate. Somewhat of a small market to target a AAA console for. 1080p60 is what most of the market demands 2016-2017, and Neo will easily provide that at a much lower cost. People are not going to run out and buy a 4k TV if they don't have one for Scorpio. $600 + another $600 on top of that when their current TV works fine? Same reason VR isn't going to work on consoles. Console gamers aren't going to drop $400 on the console and then another $400+ on the VR when they could spend the money on more games, instead. I'm guessing Scorpio will cost $599 and the Neo $399, but I don't actually know, just a guess.
+I DragoN Sony's got the games for me. I'm considering waiting until the Neo hits and original ps4 price falls and just get one of those. 4k is for the PC ;)
4k isn't even for the PC, yet. Steam hardware survey shows way less than 2% of its users game at 4k, right now. Maybe in a year it will grow to 8%? Probably not. 4k is still way too expensive. The cost doesn't lye in the TV itself, but rather in the technologies to support that many pixels.
Look, I don't like the "Teraflop argument". What would matter to me is... How stable is the framerate, How stable is the resolution, How fast are the load times, How how well does the console display the game? THESE are supposed to be the vital questions.
***** "scorpio is using the newest amd graphics card you do know that right?" Yeah, its using the newest $200 GPU that will be 1.5 years old by the time the Scorpio comes out.
You didn't actually say what a teraflop is. But at the very least you gave a practical explanation for how the number impacts performance on any given system as well as how to calculate it. That's more useful to me anyway.
Shut up its one of the best cinematic experiences this world have ever seen idk why all devs aim up for 30 or 60 fps when we have the most definitive cinematic experience at 24 fps
Did anybody see the check from Sony on shelf behind him? Also the letter "saying please spin the narrative that 4.2 tflops is better than 6 tflops" seriously when Xbox one was .5 less tflops less than ps4 that's all the media jumped for three years. Now that Scorpio will have 2 tflop difference the narrative is "it don't matter". This channel just showed it is no better than the media shilling for Sony this gen.
Calm down there Columbo. They never said the neo would be better than the scorpio, he's just giving the facts about Tflops and how they work. They have never been a direct indicator of actual performance.Nvida often runs at much lower Tflops than AMD hardware and with the exception of a few recent games perform better, like he showed in the video.
+flanker22 wrong. All last gen .5 tflops was reason Xbox got trashed. Now the Scorpio will be 2 tflops more than neo "we have to wait and see if Scorpio can use all its power of gpu " fuck out here man.
There's no doubt the scoprio will be more powerful, that's not what he's questioning in the video. To get a better idea of how either console will perform we will need to wait and see.
You clearly didn't listen to what he said. The Xbox and ps4 were THE SAME ARCHITECTURE SO THEY ARE DIRECTLY COMPARABLE unlike an Nvidia card and AMD cared, or a maxwell gpu vs Kepler gpu You are literally the uneducated fanboy he's talking about.
Flops is an accurate measure of computer graphics processing speed. However this does not equal how many frames or at what resolution your games will run, there are so many other things to be put into consideration. Although, consider PS and Xbox will be using the same chips from AMD. You can guess that measurement will be pretty accurate in most games. Such as that PS4 is slightly better then Xbox one. And that Scorpio will be slightly better then Neo. That is for sure.
What clock speed did you use to calculate the Pascal TF numbers? GPU Boost 3.0 makes this a bit more complicated does it not? To get 8.9TFlops from a 1080, it has to be running at stock boost clock I think. 1733Mhz But the 1080 will run at anywhere from 1.85ghz to 2ghz+, depending on thermals, power draw and ultimately the silicon lottery. That will give you a range of 9.5 to 10.5 TFlops for the 1080 when actually gaming.
If Scorpio is running on Vega, I suspect it'll be a highly efficient 6 TFLOPS. At the end of the day, my money is on Scorpio being the more powerful of the two, simply because they've had a concrete spec-target to aim at for months, and got to lock their specs way later. Of course, the real buried lede here continues to be that I don't see how 4.2TF *or* 6TF is going to be enough for high-quality 4K gaming, which is what both are being primarily billed as. Happy to be proven wrong, though. Ultimately, I'm sure I'll end up buying both - if not for 4K gaming, then at least for what promises to be higher levels of post-processing, and higher, more stable framerates.
This actually applies to other areas of life where guys who've had too much to drink might get a performance decrease when with a girl as they get the Terrorflops.
i remember in school a new friend asked me about t flops bc they were in an argument with an other friend over t flops and which console was better bc of it.....in this era....and i had to mention to them my 7990 made 8.4. And that i bought it for 300$...good times having to explain....that it was the literal definition of pc master race....and that i was also using amd virtual super resolution to play fallout4 in simulated 4k...as well.
I was hoping you'd do a video to hush down the ill-informed 'fan boys' who have been suckered in by the marketing tactics that is MS and their Teraflops. Unfortunately, if you read the comments, those same 13 year old's are still arguing about Teraflops, clearly not having listened to a single thing in the video. *face palm*, a crying shame, but it's not your fault DF. You did your best, keep on trucking buddy.
Interesting video! There's something that escapes me though: why do we need to divide by 1 million to get the final value of Tflops ? I have an idea but I don't think this answers my question honestly...
In the end IT DOESNT MATTER! The ps4 was more powerful than the Xbox and did we see any difference in performance? NO! Games are made to play the same on both consoles. So if you design a stronger console, you are dragged down to the same performance as the weaker one when games come out since they have to be playable on both. Now the Xbox series x is more powerful but it won’t matter since the games will be designed to play the same no matter which console. No point in console wars in terms of graphics/ gameplay
because MS decided not to make exclusive games on the console, ps4 exclusives look better and play better than anything on xbox, MS could capitalize this advantage in the future but they chose not to, ps5 will do it with the ssd advantage
Thanks for explaining it! I've heard the old teraflop word alot and yet in truth didn't know exactly what the hell a teraflop was! lol! numbers are all well n good n yeah it's cool to have great specs but it's what can be done with those specs?!as long as we remember power isn't everything, gameplay is king!!!
That 1080 Fury X comparison was a little misleading, we all know that AMD hardware is underperforming in DX11 and OpenGL, but in DX12 and Vulkan you get a better indication of the raw performance, in which case that TF performance is a better represented much as it would be on console given the hardware will be used in a similar lower level way. You are correct that other factors can effect the overall performance, but when even radically different hardware is being pushed in the same way as consoles are, its not the same as the Fury X v 1080 difference in DX11, its more like the difference in DX12 or Vulkan as it shows the less restricted raw performance. XB1 v PS4 shows this, or even 360 v PS3 or earlier gen comparisons if you want to exaggerate the hardware differences (I doubt that the differences will be anymore than those between any AMD generation so they will still be comparable, much as they are between each AMD or NVidia gpu generation on PC). If a newer GPU from whatever manufacturer has higher TF than its previous generation, then its usually not to far off that percentage faster or the usual average for such an increase. So if the PS4 v XB1 is any indication, where 40% extra TF results in about 30% extra performance in GPU heavy tasks, you are likely looking at about somewhere around the same for the Scorpios performance over the Neo in GPU heavy tasks, maybe a small fraction more thanks to more modern hardware optimisation, but 70-75% of the actual gap usually seems to fit the claims vs the actual results. So all you are going to get is a switch of position in which console has the same level of increased performance as they currently have. Lol still not getting me to buy a console though even though I have been one of those daft enough to spend on a 1080 as an upgrade from my 980ti so money isn't the issue, though likely 400+ for UC4 is a little rich even with such a poor hold on money as myself :P
I think it's important to note just how important CPU is here. Your video hints at it, but it's a lot more than you might be thinking. On PC you have a lot of games primarily focusing on GPU, but that's because hardware based optimization isn't really possible there, so developers push as much as they can to the GPU. Not only that, but people have CPUs that far exceed requirements on PC. This results in games being far more GPU bound on PC than you ever get on console. When you know the specs, it's fairly easy to get a console running at 100% CPU and 100% GPU nearly all of the time. What this means is that if you only increase the GPU, you're not going to get an FPS increase *at all* because the CPU is going to bottleneck you, because there was no additional room for improvement there, and a maxed out CPU caps GPU performance. The Neo is seeing only a 30% CPU improvement. This means that if a game currently runs at 30fps, the *most* you can expect from the Neo version is 40fps, and no developer will uncap a 40fps game. So you're not going to magically see 30fps games becoming 60fps on Neo. If you ever see future games that are 30fps on PS4 and 60fps on Neo, you can be certain the PS4 version was gimped in terms of CPU utilization to make this possible.
I think the major area the developers are going to use the extra GPU power is in resolution, as resolution increases really don't impact the CPU at all. They'll simply use the small bump in CPU power to get stabler frame rates.
5 years later.....can confirm that this is exactly what ended up happening. Hopefully the Zen chips in the new consoles can give us 60 fps until the end of the generation.
@@roshanpaul1184 What I was saying was very specific to the Pro, because every Pro game is optimized around the base console. The Pro was an expansion over games optimized on weaker hardware, so how that affects performance is relative to that base hardware. When you have new games built specifically for new consoles, their performance is entirely up to developers.
As for 60fps, no matter how powerful the hardware is, it's always beneficial for developers to choose 30fps as their frame rate instead of 60fps, because it gives them twice the amount of time on the CPU and GPU to process their code. This means better graphics, but it also means things like better AI, physics, more complex level design, better world simulation, better animation, etc. Those things tend to be bigger sellers for games than more frames per second.
Every single console in history has been equally capable of 60fps, because it's entirely a choice by the developer. It's not like on PC where you make a game and then just see how it runs. On console, you know exactly what hardware you're working with, and you can design the entire game around that. You want 60fps? There's nothing stopping you, no matter what hardware you're working with. Because at the start of development, you have nothing in your game, so you have infinite frames. All you need to do is pay attention to your performance each time you add something to your game. Once it drops below 60fps, you take that thing out. From there, you can work on optimizing your existing code until there's more room leftover to bring it back, or perhaps shifting things from CPU to GPU or the other way around to make more room where you need it, and if you can't ever make enough room to bring that thing back, just leave it for the PC version.
However, because as I said, 30fps gives developers a lot more freedom and results in a game that's a lot more impressive, giving the biggest examples of generation-over-generation leap, I believe you will always be seeing 30fps games, no matter how powerful any hardware gets. The reason you're not seeing that right now is because all of the current games spent most of their development before current gen dev kits existed, so they were built around the last gen consoles and only modified for current gen in the last year or so. The reason that results in more 60fps games this time around is developers don't also have to port that code to a different architecture like they did in previous generations, which caused poorly optimized code to run poorly. Now games that were designed around 30fps for last gen consoles run at 60fps on current gen without any work needed to make it happen.
Starting around the end of next year though, that's when you'll start seeing games that spent most of their development time on current gen dev kits. From then on, you'll see a lot of 30fps games with no options whatsoever for 60fps. If it didn't happen right away, eventually a big game would do it, resulting in visuals and gameplay that blows people's minds (and we aren't anywhere close to that level yet), and other games would have to compete with what people expect out of these consoles now and also do 30fps to achieve that. Except, developers already know that would happen, so they're already preparing to make full use of their bigger frame budgets by choosing 30fps.
8 years later and what you said was very spot on. But what about the ps5 pro tho? How much a 10% cpu boost gonna help with the framerates?
@@randyrrs7028 the 10% CPU boost of the PS5 Pro is actually off by default, as turning it on reduces GPU power. Most games will see zero performance improvements whatsoever as they'll only be using a GPU upgrade, and can only make use of that as a resolution boost, not an improvement of performance or graphics.
In most cases what I'm seeing is that they actually use the SAME resolution or even lower than the base PS5, and just hope AI upscaling makes up the difference. Problem is AI upscaling doesn't actually add any detail if you're already using a temporal upscaling method like FSR or TSR. It will resolve those details in a cleaner and sharper way, but it's ultimately the same level of detail
So for the vast majority of PS5 Pro games you will get the same performance, the same resolution, and maybe a small improvement in picture quality due to AI upscaling. It's a bad product.
However, even if they turn on the CPU boost, it will have a negligible impact. May be useful for the occasional dropped frame but that's about it.
@@AndyGilleand so those expecting 60fps on games like gta6 will be very disappointed then, i think its best to wait for a ps6 because it will obviously have a much better cpu to run it at 4k 60fps.
Id imagine the ps6 will have pssr 2.0 + frame gen equivalent
Compute Performance is 4.20TF (Teraflops)
( (GPU Shaders * GPU Clock) * 2) / 1,000,000 = Compute Performance
( (2304 * 911) * 2) / 1,000,000 = Compute Performance
(2098944 * 2) / 1,000,000 = Compute Performance
4,197,888 / 1,000,000 = Compute Performance
Compute Performance = 4.197888 which is roughly 4.20
Just thought I'd post the formula here.
This just popped out in my recommendation.. and everyone is arguing about Xbox Series X & PS5 because of the teraflops 🤔
Same. All the morons arguing as if TFLOPs means anything.
Console fanboys are sometimes super annoying.
same shit, different day xD
I mean I'm more of a ps defender since it gets so hated right now, but the tflops between PS5 XBOXSX can be compared, bevause they are both based on RDNA2
@@casdf7 Doesn't mean the real world performance will reflect the difference. This is a custom architecture layout for both consoles and how they handle computations are different. The underlying base architecture may be foundationally similar but the system as a whole is not the same and therefore makes the comparison ultimately worthless.
If it was just the GPU by itself, sure. But it's not. The SSD speeds in ps5 are incredibly fast and makes up some difference in performance. It needs less future data stored which means more available vram. More available vram means more stored next to the GPU which means faster and cheaper access which equates to lower rendering costs per frame which improves rendering time aka fps. Is it drastic? Fundamentally yes. Will it make a difference? A little but not enough to overcome the pure Core count of Series X. But it's also precisely the reason you cannot compare console power unless it's identical implementation.
The TFLOPs equation is so basic it honestly means very little even between identical architectures. You can look at a spec sheet between the same family of architecture and be able to tell what is faster.
TFLOPs only tells a theoretical compute performance output. Games are not entirely compute based. They are graphic/compute based. Which further makes the gaming performance numbers people come up with as useless. Nobody but the game developer knows what computations are being used at any given moment.
You missed the most important part: a flop is a floating point operation.
RUclips Account stfu how is that important?
@@glub1381 he kind of explained it.
Flop is a measure and he showed the math.
By understanding how to calculate it, you understand what it means
Floating-point operations per second.
Teraflop: a trillion floating-point operations (instruction+execution+output result). The GPU needs all those floating-point calculations to determine the coordinates of vertices (points on a triangle) for polygons and textures, and pixel coordinates in 3D space to apply shaders.
Floating-point: a number value with a decimal point (whole number+fraction) that the processor can recognize and work with for arithmetic logic.
The measurement is only for peak theoretical performance at best case scenarios (which are never actually met in games).
@@elimalinsky7069 didn't know I was sapiosexual, but now I do.
You guys, Richard's not actually wearing his glasses crooked. The density of knowledge inside his skull is so high that space-time is locally distorted and straight lines are redefined
So you’re saying he’s not straight...? 😂
He predicted the shades and MHz of the Xbox One X completely wrong LOL
After researching for video cards to buy I stumbled into this channel, and from that point forward I love it. I love how you guys at DigitalFoundry are not bias and give straight up answers and tell the truth about products. I just introduced myself into PC gaming recently after over 20 years of console only gaming... Thank you for all your hard work.
I'm afraid to read the comments.
me too
pussy
wayge Have you seen the horror, son? Have you seen those brainless creatures bickering like there's no tomorrow? There is no turning back from that.
LETS BRING THE HORROR HERE!
daeux 2 hours ago
Scorpio > Neo
funbrute31 36 minutes ago
pc > a toaster > scorpio 900p > peasant station neo 25 fps
+Bergonath ha ha ha really very funny
Project Scorpio delivers the highest quality pixels
LMFAO
And uncompressed of course.
bewhahahahaha
Never gets old
Highest quality pixels at the highest cinematic frame rate (24fps)
PROJECT SCORPIO WILL HAVE STABLE 30fps
I don't believe it! that's gonna be soooo smooooooth!1!1!1!1!!!!11
IT WILL FINALLY RUN NETFLIX IN 4K
DIS IZ UNREAL!!!11!!1
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Good One!!!! You're hilarious!!!! You should be a stand-up comedian or something with all your original jokes !!!
+My name is Dale my tv can run netflix 4k
+My name is Dale
ps4 can already do 4k netflix
"I'll put it simply *insert fancy terminilogy*"
A TERAFLOP is what ponies like to talk about when it's in their favour,but doesn't matter when it isn't!
You're such a hypocrite the only mention of teraflops at E3 was the Microsoft presentation.
StillFreshhhKen ponies been talking about 1.31 tf vs 1.84 tf the past 3 years where have you been?
+Dirk Does Dallas he is a fanboy, pc has surpassed the 2 teraflops before the launch of ps4 and xbox one
So you're just another butthurt fanboy mad that 3rd party games get made for ps4 and then ported over to the xbox?
yup just another bitter fanboy. oh look No Man's Sky talk is everywhere but the Xboner camp. how sad.
and Nintendo just rocking that Tegra gpu.
Nvidia tegra is a CPU not a GPU
+GrandAssassin4 The Tegra is a combined CPU/GPU, just like Intel CPUs have integrated graphics
Tegra is a SoC. The PS4/Xbox One chips are SoC, too, btw.
isnt the curent x1 at 1 gflop at fp16?
+GrandAssassin4 It's actually a APU
911mhz, 4.20tflops. What next?!?!
Your profile picture fits your comment perfectly
1337 shaders
Xbox One Blaze
9001MHz core clock on the CPU maybe? throw some LN2 on there and crank that beast until it pops? XDD
666 CUDA Cores
Who is here after ps5 reveal?
Ivan123 lmao me
Console fanboy here on the battleground
😂
It wasn’t revealed my dude
As of April 15th 2020
Yo
The xbex one tera-flopped, if you know what I mean.
Both consoles tera flopped.
"xbex"... Lel
SlimCargo your PC doesn't have blast processing, your argument is invalid.
+Robert Presti (angrydroid)
ps4 is fastest selling console in console history
+Mr Glass Native 4K? Triggered.
DigitalFoundry this is the clean up video to satisfy the PS fans since y'all been saying the little extra power mattered for 3 years! Now that the Neo will be less powerful it don't! I've seen every comparison video and y'all say the little percent on the Xbox side is always troubling! Now y'all gone clean it up and say Neo games run good compared to the SPEC! Which I agree with except y'all should have been saying that for Xbox being that it has a weaker GPU and DDR3 Ram, which is doesn't make them equal! Also I was waiting for this video cause I know you had to make it! For your fan base! PS only people made you big cause they like anything that seemingly bashes Nintendo and Microsoft instead of enjoying there games!! Healthy competition helps gaming grow and stay strong I'm out!!!
neither console are 4k gaming at 60fps so who cares
+Russell Morton what that have to do with anything?
Anthony Lee Who cares they both can't deliver what they said they can
If you think they are biased to PS , why are you here watching every comparing video and making a comment that sounds like you are crying from your inside , you totally didn't watched DF back in last gen when Most of multiplatform games run better on Xbox 360 , and the comment section were full of Xbox fanboys making comments about how they cock riding that Xbox 360 is better and blah bla bla , and now you saying DF is Biased to PS?... Pathetic...
+Russell Morton cool let me know where you got to play them at! I think maybe 4K 30fps but I don't care my LG 70 in 4K HDR pro upscale anyway so my PS4 and XBO look good on it!
Fast forward 3 years and now next gen is rumored to have 9 or 12 teraflops
Fast forward a few months from your comment and it's confirmed
9 for PS5. 12 for XBOX
Xbox is going to kill it next gen.
Probably going to cripple sony so bad that they'll go bankrupt 😅🤣😂
Constable Dodo i mean let’s just wait before making assumptions but it’s true that xbox has the power advantage but power is not always everything
@@BoleDaPole they couldnt kill it with xbox 360 and xbox one, what makes you think xbox gonna "cripple" ps? PS stays wining
Now, mobile chip from apple M1 has 10+ Tflops
I have been PC Gaming since the 90's. Never heard of a teraflop, it was never used to compare videocard performance until it was used as some excuse to claim the mid-gen upgrade consoles like 1X are somehow as powerful as high end PC's even though the actual performance of games when we got our hands on the 1X are not as good as an above average modern gaming PC.
CUDA is used to measure GPU power.
I have no idea why Microsoft and Sony used it so heavily. I never heard of it either until MS started using it to brag about the X1X, they however neglected to tell the world the huge bottlenecked in the form of that processor it had which prevented it from being able to put out more than 30fps in most games.
It's funny because my old GTX 970 at the time could perform better and had 4 tflops.
Oh, those eyebrows, man... when they move up and down, my soul just shivers..... what a compelling presence this guys has....
Teraflops are the "new" MHz and GHz.
TeraFLOPs are a more useful figure than either of those in 2016, but still aren't the whole story.
I fully expect Scorpio to be the more powerful overall console, if only because they've known the Neo specs for months, and had a clear target to surpass. I also don't expect either console will be powerful enough for "true" 4K gaming, though I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
Youre right. There is no "true" 4k gaming. Its a design decision, which must be made by the game developers. If the developers decide to use the whole Power of the Xbox Scorpio for 1080p Games, the PC-Gamer will not be able anymore to play those games in 4k! Just because the performance gap of the systems will be again much smaller.
Thats the reason why i do not buy a 4k screen. Its just too early imo.
+Laguna So just because a console game is in 1080p a pic player can't play that game in 4K? There are no games in 4K on a console right now and you can play pretty much any game in 4K on pc. I don't see your point.
No developer will create a game within the next year or two at least that takes full advantage of the Scorpio's hardware at 1080p. Unless MS has a program to replace XB1's for a very cheap price and have the Scorpio retail price be very low, ($400 or so) then developers will continue to focus their effort on PS4/XB1/PC instead of the Scorpio because of the market share.
except GHz actually matters in performance.
I’ve never watched a single one of your videos and that title is great.
5:05 that cinematic 24 fps
So it was on purpose? 😂
I miss blast processing.
Those specs aren't even good enough for 1440P let alone 4K.
why not? 4*less fps = 4*more cinematic feeling
You think PC. Remember that with controlled hardware they can optimize games. Also depends on type of games. Even iPadPro with 3.5K have a bunch of games. Hardware power is actually useless in real world. Optimization, acceleration, OS overhead are key. Thats why for example RISC hardware with 1/3 compute power outperforms PCs in common tasks like video encoding.
Running at a sweet cinematic 10 FPS
Well this didn’t age well
@@realshompa That's because they're specialized.
RUclips recommended this at the right time
I have never heard a tech reviewer doing a video card review mention teraflops, just heard it about consoles like it was the utmost important thing. Kindai curious as to what the teraflops were for a Titan and top end processor circa 2016 compared to a console.
Yes. But the comparison between the consoles makes a little bit more sense because they’re using the same amd technology.
That's because teraflops are a great measuring stick for raw power, and Xbox is going to outperformed most gaming PC built before 2017.
It really means nothing.
The Xbox series X has 4 TFLOPs while the X1X had 6, yet the series S outperforms the 1X is almost any game.
Thats the proof right there that TFLOP is just a figure on a sheet of paper much like the height of a building is.
I've never seen Nivida brag about the 3090 having 28 tera wanks of power. They go off CUDA
Great video as usual.. One of the best channels in youtube..
Love this channel but I hate comment section
I agree with you even 3 years later
So far it seems mostly sane, but...
OMG! 4.2TFlop vs 6Tflop and more... The Neo will come out old! 2+Tflops is a huge difference!!!
A 50% increase in TFlop is not that big, besides 6Tflop from AMD isnt enough for 4K.
AMD's Fury X ~9 TFlop has trouble at 4K. How will their 6Tflop fare?
4K gaming is unpractical. Lower resolutions with higher graphical fidelity and AA is better.
Ex. 1080P Ultra 60Fps > 4K(UHD) medium 30Fps
4k is easier to market than higher frame rates and richer textures and AA. Most people believe more pixels is better regardless of viewing distance, screen size, which actually are huge factors in 4k benefits.
Telling someone about frame rate and textures and AA would instantly disinterest them because it's too complicated. It can't be marketed easily. 4k on the other hand can.
4k isn't affordable, and won't be for at least 2 more years. I suspect very few games will run native 4k 30 fps on Scorpio, while most at 1440p/1080p at 30 or 60 fps combinations up-scaled to 4k.
4k gaming is actually quite nice. even if at 30fps and max settings. Rise of the Tomb Raider being a good example still looks fantastic at 4k 30fps max settings or with a mix of mostly high and some medium settings 60fps at 4k. either way you're getting a fantastic looking experience.The most significant hits to fps comes often from effects that don't dramatically increase image quality. We need video's like DF and Candyland supply to actually get a feel for just how different the game looks at different settings, but even on medium or high settings games like RotTR are amazing looking titles.People keep saying the gtx 1080 or gtx 1070 can't do 4k because in a few games at completely max settings they fail to hit 60fps consistently yet with literally lowering a few settings they easily hit that mark.Everyone just seems obsessed with the term ultra.
the rx480 can play 4k games at around 30fps ultra. Scorpio should be able to pull it off, especially if games are optimised for consoles or developed by first party studios specifically. Plus the hardware Scorpio is using isn't even out yet, we don't know how much of a difference it will make, TFLOPS means little when compared to other factors.
the PS4 neo will come out this year, the Xbox Scorpio will come out the end of next year. The PS4 neo will be cheaper, while the Xbox Scorpio will be more expensive and after 1x year of selling the PS4 neo, Sony will easily drop it's price even further when the Scorpio launches, thus making the PS4 neo even cheaper.
Good recommendation RUclips
Digital foundry is like tech ASMR. I don't get it but it's so calming.
you guys should have more subscribers, gonna start a movement 😤
Read this article months ago on your website. Impressive stuff.
NVIDIA = Pay for the BRAND.
AMD = Pay for VALUE.
You're saying that i'm rich? ;)
XBOX = Pay for BEST PIXELS
+Ethan Upton pixels of Halo or Forza nothing else
nvidia=pay for the performance
I have gotten good value over the years with Nvidia cards. So that makes your argument kinda invalid and fanboy like.
You guys need to redo or reupload this video lol. Keep up the amazing work!!!
Not all Teraflops are computed equal :P I'm looking at you AMD.
It's true though, you could be computing objects off screen, and that's just a waste.
TFLOPS from AMD aren't a necessarily unequal, they're just made differently. AMD's architecture is quite powerful, not really made for gaming but rather raw computation. Games don't take advantage of AMD's hardware, yet. We're seeing Vulkan and DX12 help AMD out, but it's going to take a while for them to catch up, ie the rest of 2016 and into 2017.
+Shane “The Real Slim Shaney” Stacy idk why sony didnt go to the Nvidia instead.
NVidia does not have the manufacturing capability of AMD. AMD has their own foundry, GlobalFoundries to produce their GPUs at. NVidia contracts TSMC to make theirs and is stuck waiting behind bigger customers like Apple to get new technology.
AMD also allows companies to custom design chips to be produced at their foundries.
AMD also provides their technology for a much cheaper price. AMD makes very little money off the game consoles, they essentially break even. AMD uses the game consoles as leverage for more developers to use AMD optimizations on the PC for their games.
+Shane “The Real Slim Shaney” Stacy amd doesn't actually has their own foundry now,most of their GPUs are made by tsmc or Samsung,even the new Zen CPU will be produced by samsung
Richard... "Leadbetter"? What a name.
420 smokeweedunkmemesnonscope flops
BLAZE IT
This is a perfect video for every console gamer that has a youtube channel that keeps using the world tera flops... the idiocy level should drop a bit with this video. good job DF
Teraflops should be meaningless, but performance still scales rather linearly with flops. It's kinda like an IQ score. It correlates with, but does not dictate ability.
Yeah. There are cases when person is thick as hell and infantile like 5yo kid but they are really kind and have absolutely no violence in them.
USMAN HUSSAIN Because flops correlates with, but does not dictate ability. Because each card has different strengths and weaknesses. Because the game is more optimized for one architecture over another.
+SlyNine That guy is a troll and a dumbass, don't give hime the time of day.
Normally I criticize DF's videos for their tendency to get facts wrong consistently without correcting themselves.
This video however was good and DIDN'T end up saying that Tflops is a good measurement for performance like I tend to see elsewhere. Good job with keeping this video reasonably factual without misinformation.
It's like with horsepower. Two similar cars in weight etc can be compared with their HP. A truck and a F1 car on the other hand... At the end it's the driver! 😉
I can go deeper.
Look at the v8.
In the 1960s, they got 280 Hp out of one.
Now they can get over 300 hp out of a straight 4.
It's not just the graphics card thats important, it's the entire system.
DigitalFoundry I dont know how I didnt know about this amazing channel
RX480/5.8Teraflops=Equal perfomance to R9 390X and almost equal to GTX 980(But with driver support it will pass the GTX 980 by much)
RX 470/5.0Teraflops=That means it will be very close to RX 480. That means it will be equal to GTX 970/R9 390 and with driver support it will pass both of them).
Mature drivers, you know..
+Ultra Pro Well thanks Mate..
+El Diablo which one?
+Joe Schmoe
Yeah but Who cares. RX 470 will be in level of R9 390. and maybe less. Like gtx 970. Still a beast.
With driver support the RX 480 will surpass the 390 in all games. It is within about 5-10% of the 390 so a small boost could easily give it the edge.
+Flying Snail RX 480 is already better than 390. 480=980/390X. The 470=970/390. Notice The difference.
When they announced Scorpio's specs at E3, I felt like Marty McFly shouting to Doc Brown "What the hell is a Terraflop?!"
My 390X is 6 Teraflops.
My 980 is 5 Teraflops
***** ZOMG NO WAI!
My dick is 69 teraflops. Take that, scrubs.
My Teraflops is 1 Teraflops.
Shit, can't compete with that... :(
I'm glad they cleared the whole tflops thing up. I always found it so stupid when people where comparing scorpio to 980ti just because it has 5.6 tflops not knowing the Amd fury x has 8.6 and are pretty much equal in terms of gaming performance 980 ti wins some and fury x others.Phil spencer likened the scropio to gtx 980 non ti .IOnly console players start drooling when they heard 6 tflops but us pc guy already knew 6 tflops barrier was already accomplished back in 2013 with Amd r9 290x. I hated trying correct to tell people ,now I see i'll point them to this video.
Sony needs to replace those shitty jaguar cores with zen cores otherwise the Neo's improved gpu will be neutered in many cases.
or switch to intel.
why should they switch to the almighty cash grabbers?
Zen seems to be 70-80% better per clock than Piledriver and piledriver is 50-60% better than jaguar per clock.
Because Intel is better.
hellfire 18 How is intel better when AMD has more performance per transistor?
RattleHead,
Buddy... hellfire baited you good.
Also, you have to consider cost. It has to be 'affordable', otherwise no one will buy it. There's no point putting in an i5 and a 970 when that'll set them back more than the price of a console; without including the case, PSU, usb, ethernet, OS, optical drive, assembly, shipping, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Great vid and breakdown DF. Keep up the good work guys (as always).👍
The comment section made me cringe.
Teraflop sounds like something I would do on a trampoline
I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT TERAFLOPS IM GETTING A NEO BECAUSE PLAYSTATION HAS GAMES IN ACTUALLY INTERESTED INTO THERES ALSO RUMORS IF THE NEO BEING 5.5 TERAFLOPS ACTUALLY WELL SEE🎮💯💯
where are these rumours?
It's not gonna be 5.5 TFlops unless it's vega. If it's Polaris 5.5 TFlops is the rx 480 and they aren't gonna cram a 150 watt GPU into the neo...
Rx 480 has 5.8 tflops @1266 but a simple oc to 1305 6tflops.The neo is running polaris just the core clock are underclocked due heat issues.
Does it come with caps lock tho?
+Adrian Combes That's actually what sony is about to do m8. 4.2 or 5.5
Digital foundry used to be very aggressive
Scorpio will kill Neo, 2 extra TFlops means a lot.
In theoretical peak performance, yes. However, power =/= consumer choice. Scorpio will be more expensive than Neo as a result of increased performance. Price is a much bigger determinant when purchasing a console than performance. By the time Scorpio releases not even 20% of consumers will have 4k TVs. Saying even half of those 4k TV owners would buy a Scorpio is an extremely generous estimate. Somewhat of a small market to target a AAA console for. 1080p60 is what most of the market demands 2016-2017, and Neo will easily provide that at a much lower cost.
People are not going to run out and buy a 4k TV if they don't have one for Scorpio. $600 + another $600 on top of that when their current TV works fine? Same reason VR isn't going to work on consoles. Console gamers aren't going to drop $400 on the console and then another $400+ on the VR when they could spend the money on more games, instead.
I'm guessing Scorpio will cost $599 and the Neo $399, but I don't actually know, just a guess.
Shane Stacy i meant in power aspects, but in sales and that bullshit sony will win because of marketing and lower price
+I DragoN Sony's got the games for me. I'm considering waiting until the Neo hits and original ps4 price falls and just get one of those.
4k is for the PC ;)
2 Tflops is not that substantial. I have a GTX 1080 that has about the same Tflops as the Fury X and my 1080 OBLITERATES the Fury X
4k isn't even for the PC, yet. Steam hardware survey shows way less than 2% of its users game at 4k, right now. Maybe in a year it will grow to 8%? Probably not.
4k is still way too expensive. The cost doesn't lye in the TV itself, but rather in the technologies to support that many pixels.
Great video Richard, best regards from Argentina!
Look, I don't like the "Teraflop argument". What would matter to me is...
How stable is the framerate,
How stable is the resolution,
How fast are the load times,
How how well does the console display the game?
THESE are supposed to be the vital questions.
Thankfully we have Digital Foundry to do the analysis and authoritatively answer those questions.
Thank you! Wisconsin!
Scorpio > Neo
pc > a toaster > scorpio 900p > peasant station neo 25 fps
+funbrute31 ayyy
Link to source ProtossX?
***** u realize when scorpio hits in 2017, consoles are gonna behind, just take the L
*****
"scorpio is using the newest amd graphics card you do know that right?"
Yeah, its using the newest $200 GPU that will be 1.5 years old by the time the Scorpio comes out.
You didn't actually say what a teraflop is. But at the very least you gave a practical explanation for how the number impacts performance on any given system as well as how to calculate it. That's more useful to me anyway.
24 fps in ac unity??? what the fuck thats not even playable at all.
Shut up its one of the best cinematic experiences this world have ever seen idk why all devs aim up for 30 or 60 fps when we have the most definitive cinematic experience at 24 fps
yo 24 fps saved my nation from famine, all praise 24 fps.
30fps and 60fps make me nauseated and throw up!
but the human eye can only see 24fps... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+MrPicklepod 60 fps is good not bad
Nice video. He didn't answer the original question, he just introduced new terms, such as shaders, that he also didn't define!
So Scorpio wins again.....
We'll see.
Flying Snail Basic mathematics......
***** So with AMD chips in consoles, WE win.....
Adrian Combes
No
+Adrian Combes simple comment but moronic user
Reading the title made me think of futurama "What the hell is Kwanza?" book lol
Did anybody see the check from Sony on shelf behind him? Also the letter "saying please spin the narrative that 4.2 tflops is better than 6 tflops" seriously when Xbox one was .5 less tflops less than ps4 that's all the media jumped for three years. Now that Scorpio will have 2 tflop difference the narrative is "it don't matter". This channel just showed it is no better than the media shilling for Sony this gen.
richard is probably the closest to the center than anyone doing any technical analysis.
Calm down there Columbo. They never said the neo would be better than the scorpio, he's just giving the facts about Tflops and how they work. They have never been a direct indicator of actual performance.Nvida often runs at much lower Tflops than AMD hardware and with the exception of a few recent games perform better, like he showed in the video.
+flanker22 wrong. All last gen .5 tflops was reason Xbox got trashed. Now the Scorpio will be 2 tflops more than neo "we have to wait and see if Scorpio can use all its power of gpu " fuck out here man.
There's no doubt the scoprio will be more powerful, that's not what he's questioning in the video.
To get a better idea of how either console will perform we will need to wait and see.
You clearly didn't listen to what he said. The Xbox and ps4 were THE SAME ARCHITECTURE SO THEY ARE DIRECTLY COMPARABLE unlike an Nvidia card and AMD cared, or a maxwell gpu vs Kepler gpu
You are literally the uneducated fanboy he's talking about.
Souja Boy console has the highest terraflops recorded in a device.
Wichard!!!! We love you dude.
i love watching Digital Foundry
Back in my day, we just called them "bits" not "flops".
Totally different things, dude.
Gun Troller you don’t get the joke at all do you son?
@@Bitzell
Didn't sound like a joke.
Flops is an accurate measure of computer graphics processing speed.
However this does not equal how many frames or at what resolution your games will run, there are so many other things to be put into consideration. Although, consider PS and Xbox will be using the same chips from AMD. You can guess that measurement will be pretty accurate in most games. Such as that PS4 is slightly better then Xbox one. And that Scorpio will be slightly better then Neo. That is for sure.
Richard calling out the fanboys XD. Thank you!
I think you meant to say, "2 shaders per cycle". We get ya though.
These guys work their ass's off. Let's get them a million subscribers that they desire.
What clock speed did you use to calculate the Pascal TF numbers? GPU Boost 3.0 makes this a bit more complicated does it not?
To get 8.9TFlops from a 1080, it has to be running at stock boost clock I think. 1733Mhz
But the 1080 will run at anywhere from 1.85ghz to 2ghz+, depending on thermals, power draw and ultimately the silicon lottery.
That will give you a range of 9.5 to 10.5 TFlops for the 1080 when actually gaming.
Good point!
more videos like this one pls :) very informative.
I did a teraflop off of the high dive once, never been quite the same.
I was distracted by the buttons on your shirt. They're all spaced evenly until you get to the second one from the top.
a really nice work guys!👍
This video is just AMAZING!... excellent, I learnt a lot and it was really really useful!
Still a very valid question in 2020
The genius is strong with this one
A teraflop is the amount of megawatts (MW) generated by Richard's Hand Flails Per Minute (HFPM)
This dude is a legend
If Scorpio is running on Vega, I suspect it'll be a highly efficient 6 TFLOPS. At the end of the day, my money is on Scorpio being the more powerful of the two, simply because they've had a concrete spec-target to aim at for months, and got to lock their specs way later.
Of course, the real buried lede here continues to be that I don't see how 4.2TF *or* 6TF is going to be enough for high-quality 4K gaming, which is what both are being primarily billed as. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
Ultimately, I'm sure I'll end up buying both - if not for 4K gaming, then at least for what promises to be higher levels of post-processing, and higher, more stable framerates.
It'd be wiser to spend all of that on a gaming pc, that's gonna be a lot of money.
PSNEO launch will be LIT
This actually applies to other areas of life where guys who've had too much to drink might get a performance decrease when with a girl as they get the Terrorflops.
What game companies need to concentrate on is frames per second not how many Graphics you can put on the screen
i remember in school a new friend asked me about t flops bc they were in an argument with an other friend over t flops and which console was better bc of it.....in this era....and i had to mention to them my 7990 made 8.4. And that i bought it for 300$...good times having to explain....that it was the literal definition of pc master race....and that i was also using amd virtual super resolution to play fallout4 in simulated 4k...as well.
Actually thought this video was from 2020.
RUclips reccomndtion: better late then never....
Remember the days when the console wars were all about Polygons/s?
I love this channel.
A terflop is the power needed to move Richard's hands in a one second cycle
Great and concise video!
I was hoping you'd do a video to hush down the ill-informed 'fan boys' who have been suckered in by the marketing tactics that is MS and their Teraflops.
Unfortunately, if you read the comments, those same 13 year old's are still arguing about Teraflops, clearly not having listened to a single thing in the video.
*face palm*, a crying shame, but it's not your fault DF. You did your best, keep on trucking buddy.
Can't wait for my GTX 1080 to arrive! 9 Teraflops without overclocking! :D
I only have a peasant 3.5 GB card ;(
Boffifis, you have a PC. You are no peasant. We are all enlightened equally.
Boffifis1
The GTX 970 is still a great card. No worries.
+Patrick Schwind Team 1080 here, with overclocking to 1953MHz we can reach 10 Teraflops
+Patrick Schwind pff!! Buy a ps4, pc gaming is shit.
Interesting video!
There's something that escapes me though: why do we need to divide by 1 million to get the final value of Tflops ?
I have an idea but I don't think this answers my question honestly...
to change the number from megaflops to teraflops
Landon Struchen ***** Yep! Exactly what I thought! Well it was easy after all lol
In the end IT DOESNT MATTER! The ps4 was more powerful than the Xbox and did we see any difference in performance? NO! Games are made to play the same on both consoles. So if you design a stronger console, you are dragged down to the same performance as the weaker one when games come out since they have to be playable on both. Now the Xbox series x is more powerful but it won’t matter since the games will be designed to play the same no matter which console. No point in console wars in terms of graphics/ gameplay
because MS decided not to make exclusive games on the console, ps4 exclusives look better and play better than anything on xbox, MS could capitalize this advantage in the future but they chose not to, ps5 will do it with the ssd advantage
@@fixpontt Halo and Gears is an exclusive aren't it ? And it looked shite anyways
Thanks for explaining it! I've heard the old teraflop word alot and yet in truth didn't know exactly what the hell a teraflop was! lol! numbers are all well n good n yeah it's cool to have great specs but it's what can be done with those specs?!as long as we remember power isn't everything, gameplay is king!!!
That 1080 Fury X comparison was a little misleading, we all know that AMD hardware is underperforming in DX11 and OpenGL, but in DX12 and Vulkan you get a better indication of the raw performance, in which case that TF performance is a better represented much as it would be on console given the hardware will be used in a similar lower level way. You are correct that other factors can effect the overall performance, but when even radically different hardware is being pushed in the same way as consoles are, its not the same as the Fury X v 1080 difference in DX11, its more like the difference in DX12 or Vulkan as it shows the less restricted raw performance. XB1 v PS4 shows this, or even 360 v PS3 or earlier gen comparisons if you want to exaggerate the hardware differences (I doubt that the differences will be anymore than those between any AMD generation so they will still be comparable, much as they are between each AMD or NVidia gpu generation on PC). If a newer GPU from whatever manufacturer has higher TF than its previous generation, then its usually not to far off that percentage faster or the usual average for such an increase. So if the PS4 v XB1 is any indication, where 40% extra TF results in about 30% extra performance in GPU heavy tasks, you are likely looking at about somewhere around the same for the Scorpios performance over the Neo in GPU heavy tasks, maybe a small fraction more thanks to more modern hardware optimisation, but 70-75% of the actual gap usually seems to fit the claims vs the actual results. So all you are going to get is a switch of position in which console has the same level of increased performance as they currently have. Lol still not getting me to buy a console though even though I have been one of those daft enough to spend on a 1080 as an upgrade from my 980ti so money isn't the issue, though likely 400+ for UC4 is a little rich even with such a poor hold on money as myself :P
A teraflop is a trillion floating point operations per. And that's a fact.