I don't believe Dr. Pino is right that the divine energies principally refer to a single procession, namely providence. St. Gregory is quite clear, in multiple instances, that the 'energies' comprehensively refer to the Dionysian processions, which are the manifestation of the single principle of goodness. See below for a few examples: "I would gladly ask the man who claims that only the essence of God is without beginning and that everything beside it is created: Does he consider the essence as almighty or not? *In other words, does this essence possess the faculties of knowledge, of foreknowledge, of creation, of unity, of providence, of deification and generally of all such faculties, or does it not?* For if it does not, then this only un-originate essence is not even God. If it does possess these faculties and did receive them at some later time, then we must again conclude that it was at some point imperfect, that is, not even God. *But if these faculties were processions of the essence from eternity, then we do not have only one thing that is without beginning, the essence of God…* None of these powers in the divine essence are essence, for they are necessarily and always inherent to the one divine Essence. They are like - to use an obscure image - the powers of the senses in what is called the common spiritual sense of the soul… in the same way, there is only one providential power, the power of God… The same is also true with all the other natural powers of God.” - Triads, pp. 310, 3.2.5 And again, "... But since the one who brought forth and adorned the universe established it as multiform by an incomparable *superabundance of goodness* and willed that some possess only being but that others should acquire also life in addition to being, that some should relish the possession of intellectual life while others would enjoy only the sensible life; and there are some beings whom he wished to possess life compound of both. And when these received from him rational, intellectual life, he wished that by the inclination of their will towards him they should attain union with him and thus live in a divine and supernatural manner, *having been deemed worthy of his divinizing grace and energy.* For his will is creation for beings, either as they are brought forth from nothing or as they are changed for the better, and this takes place in different ways. On account of this difference in the divine will for beings, *that unique providence and goodness, or, in other words, the return of God towards more inferior things for the sake of goodness, both is and is referred to by the divinely wise theologians as many providences and goodnesses,* for they are indivisibly divided and made manifold among divisible things. And so, *it is sometimes called God’s power of foreknowledge and sometimes his power of creation and conservation, and for these, in turn, according to the great Dionysius, there are the bestowals of substance, life and wisdom.* Each of these is common to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And according to each good and divine volition in our regard the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are identical with *the energy and power which bestows substance, life and wisdom, and these he has called illimitable and undiminishable communications,* both removing them from all created things and teaching they inhere by nature in the one who grants participation.” - 150 Chapters, C.91 He reiterates this in other places (e.g., Chapter 34 of the 150 Chapters), where he cites St. Dionysius directly (namely to Divine Names, chapters 3.1 and 5.2). Maybe St. Gregory flips his position on this in those untranslated (to English) works Dr. Pino referred to in his presentation. I'm more inclined to think that perhaps Dr. Pino is trying to recreate the wheel. I also have to take issue with the idea that God thinks multiple goods or different things. First, as a student of St. Dionysius, this would be a radical departure (see e.g., Divine Name chapter 7.2). Also, St. Gregory seems to imply that the logoi, within God, are 'contained in supernatural unity' as the Logos and are diversified/pluralized only viz. creation (in which everything bears the mark of the Logos) by that procession(s). See examples below: "In many places in his treatises he shows that they are beyond beings and are exemplars of beings with a preexistence in God according to transcendent unity. How then could these be creatures? And further, to teach what these exemplars are he adds, “We call exemplars those concepts of beings which *pre-exist unitively in God* and which bring forth the substances of things, concepts which theology names predeterminations and divinely good volitions which are responsible for the determination and creation of beings; in accordance with these transcendent one predetermined and brought forth all beings.” - 150 Chapters, Ch. 87 And again more clearly, "St. Maximos says, “He who is made worthy to reach God will know all the pre-existing reasons in him *by a simple and indivisible knowledge.* Again, he says, “When the soul is united unto itself and to God and crowned upon the head with the first and only unique Logos and God, in whom all the reasons of the beings pre-exist in a unified and inconceivable simplicity, there will no longer be any reason to divide it [knowledge] syllogistically into many. By looking upon the Logos, who is not outside of himself, but the whole is within the other whole, in a simple contact, the soul itself will know the reason of beings, through which it had been attracted by divisive methods before it had been wedded to the Logos and God.” - Triads, pp. 336, 3.3.10 m not sure. In any case, I look forward to reading his book, which I actually bought!
It seems his position is not that all of the energies are subsumed under a single procession, but rather procession is only used in reference to a specific set of energies. I believe that was his main point.
LOL, I like his view towards downloading of books
Does the essence energy distinction make it necessary for God to Create because he has the energies to do so and that therefore is not free not to?
10:51 Lossky and Bogakov
11:17 bookmark
31:37 bookmark
The dude at 33:00 with the gay bear flag in the background 😂😂😂😂😂
Average Mark of Ephesus fan
I don't believe Dr. Pino is right that the divine energies principally refer to a single procession, namely providence. St. Gregory is quite clear, in multiple instances, that the 'energies' comprehensively refer to the Dionysian processions, which are the manifestation of the single principle of goodness. See below for a few examples:
"I would gladly ask the man who claims that only the essence of God is without beginning and that everything beside it is created: Does he consider the essence as almighty or not? *In other words, does this essence possess the faculties of knowledge, of foreknowledge, of creation, of unity, of providence, of deification and generally of all such faculties, or does it not?* For if it does not, then this only un-originate essence is not even God. If it does possess these faculties and did receive them at some later time, then we must again conclude that it was at some point imperfect, that is, not even God. *But if these faculties were processions of the essence from eternity, then we do not have only one thing that is without beginning, the essence of God…* None of these powers in the divine essence are essence, for they are necessarily and always inherent to the one divine Essence. They are like - to use an obscure image - the powers of the senses in what is called the common spiritual sense of the soul… in the same way, there is only one providential power, the power of God… The same is also true with all the other natural powers of God.” - Triads, pp. 310, 3.2.5
And again,
"... But since the one who brought forth and adorned the universe established it as multiform by an incomparable *superabundance of goodness* and willed that some possess only being but that others should acquire also life in addition to being, that some should relish the possession of intellectual life while others would enjoy only the sensible life; and there are some beings whom he wished to possess life compound of both. And when these received from him rational, intellectual life, he wished that by the inclination of their will towards him they should attain union with him and thus live in a divine and supernatural manner, *having been deemed worthy of his divinizing grace and energy.* For his will is creation for beings, either as they are brought forth from nothing or as they are changed for the better, and this takes place in different ways. On account of this difference in the divine will for beings, *that unique providence and goodness, or, in other words, the return of God towards more inferior things for the sake of goodness, both is and is referred to by the divinely wise theologians as many providences and goodnesses,* for they are indivisibly divided and made manifold among divisible things. And so, *it is sometimes called God’s power of foreknowledge and sometimes his power of creation and conservation, and for these, in turn, according to the great Dionysius, there are the bestowals of substance, life and wisdom.* Each of these is common to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And according to each good and divine volition in our regard the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are identical with *the energy and power which bestows substance, life and wisdom, and these he has called illimitable and undiminishable communications,* both removing them from all created things and teaching they inhere by nature in the one who grants participation.” - 150 Chapters, C.91
He reiterates this in other places (e.g., Chapter 34 of the 150 Chapters), where he cites St. Dionysius directly (namely to Divine Names, chapters 3.1 and 5.2). Maybe St. Gregory flips his position on this in those untranslated (to English) works Dr. Pino referred to in his presentation. I'm more inclined to think that perhaps Dr. Pino is trying to recreate the wheel.
I also have to take issue with the idea that God thinks multiple goods or different things. First, as a student of St. Dionysius, this would be a radical departure (see e.g., Divine Name chapter 7.2). Also, St. Gregory seems to imply that the logoi, within God, are 'contained in supernatural unity' as the Logos and are diversified/pluralized only viz. creation (in which everything bears the mark of the Logos) by that procession(s). See examples below:
"In many places in his treatises he shows that they are beyond beings and are exemplars of beings with a preexistence in God according to transcendent unity. How then could these be creatures? And further, to teach what these exemplars are he adds, “We call exemplars those concepts of beings which *pre-exist unitively in God* and which bring forth the substances of things, concepts which theology names predeterminations and divinely good volitions which are responsible for the determination and creation of beings; in accordance with these transcendent one predetermined and brought forth all beings.” - 150 Chapters, Ch. 87
And again more clearly,
"St. Maximos says, “He who is made worthy to reach God will know all the pre-existing reasons in him *by a simple and indivisible knowledge.* Again, he says, “When the soul is united unto itself and to God and crowned upon the head with the first and only unique Logos and God, in whom all the reasons of the beings pre-exist in a unified and inconceivable simplicity, there will no longer be any reason to divide it [knowledge] syllogistically into many. By looking upon the Logos, who is not outside of himself, but the whole is within the other whole, in a simple contact, the soul itself will know the reason of beings, through which it had been attracted by divisive methods before it had been wedded to the Logos and God.” - Triads, pp. 336, 3.3.10
m not sure.
In any case, I look forward to reading his book, which I actually bought!
It seems his position is not that all of the energies are subsumed under a single procession, but rather procession is only used in reference to a specific set of energies. I believe that was his main point.
@@EnergeticProcession Got it. Thanks. That makes more sense.
Bro that flag 💀
Straightest orthodox lmao