I'll defend the domestic life of the companions. Yes, it's annoying that it keeps bringing us back to Earth, BUT realistically speaking most people do have others they are connected with. If I were traveling with the Doctor, I'd of course want to come back from time to time to visit my friends and family. It's only human. Now do every one of these excursions need to result in a life-threatening grand adventure? Of course not, and that's probably where my issue with it lies - the companions should be able to visit their families without having to fight whatever. But having people they care about gives them humanity and dimension. If they don't have anyone, then that is an altogether different type of character, possibly a "loner" or some sense of tragedy in their past. (I'd say Graham in the most recent seasons does this well, going with Whitaker's Doctor because he has nothing left at home - and I love that he's a "loner" who is NOT broody and edgy - though of course even he has Ryan.) TL;DR: What does Rose's mum add to the story? It shows she has something to lose, something she's giving up, and people who care about her. It gives them both a shared humanity.
@@TheWesterlyWarlock Yeah, I'll give you that. Clara was a cluster fuck that was trying too much, Bill was alright but had some of weirdest domestic life episodes, the tree person anyone? That said I didn't hate the dynamic Chibnall gave us but I do think it was a bit much at times and became a tad convoluted and even then I only really liked Yazz. But yeah, Amy is easily the best case scenario and everything else either falls flat or is a complete dumpster fire.
I would love to see a companion who is a loner and a runaway in some way to be honest, if they are going to cut away the home life like that anyway. Somebody who leaves a toxic family/relationship, or whose been tossed out of their home, or who is a delinquent/criminal, runaway bride/groom etc. And for companions who have a relationships to their family (or who have friends), it should be easy to have scenes with them talking to their folks on the phone or visiting briefly, without having to make entire episodes which revolve around the family being kidnapped or whatever. The scenes could just inform us about the character's life outside the tardis in ways which are important to understanding their outlook/issues in the given episode. And then, having seen one scene where they visit/talk to their folks, the implication will be that they do this semi-regularly off-screen, with maybe a reference to doing so here and there.
@@oftinuvielskin9020 In the classic show we literally had Companions enter the TARDIS by being a stowaway! Or being...well...kidnapped into it. Or running away from a war on their home planet. Or...
Of course he wasn’t perfect, and it’s important we recognise that going into his second run. A lot of people have reacted to the news as if he was perfect and he’s going to be some kind of saviour to the show, but we can’t get ahead of ourselves. There will be things about the new series that we don’t like, and that’s okay - nothing is perfect. I do think he will bring some consistency back to the show though, and we’re guaranteed a solid run. I’ve watched Years and Years and It’s a Sin and loved them both, and you can see how Russell has evolved as a writer. I’ve heard a lot of people say they think he’ll make the show darker, but I think he sees the importance of appealing to children and he’ll make the show more fun again, it probably won’t take itself too seriously. I would prefer a darker take on the doctor but that isn’t going to bring in the families and casual viewers or help it regain the Christmas spot which is more important long term. I just hope it’s not too similar to his first stint, and I think his writing of characters and relationships has improved over time, which he will bring to DW.
I think if he wants to make a dark doctor who he can always make new spin-offs, like he did torchwood. And now that he has more experience, he could do an even better job with it and create a new show with exactly what he wants. He could bring back Unit and give them a dark spin-off, that would be interesting. Or even a series about the Master, then he could go really dark...
Well people have reacted as if he will save the show is because his first run of the show was great and he is a good writer. People really disliked the Chibs era and a lot of us are happy that we can get good Doctor Who content again. I would of been fine if Moffett returned but RTD returning is much better.
Honestly I hope he knows that he started these trends, and he smart enough to look at it from a new perspective and tweak them.... I really think he is a chance to more ore less reboot the show again for the better.
Now that you talked about it I realized how strange it is that with RTD the tardis doesn't feel like the companions' home, yet they just cannot ever imagine leaving.
Yes, the 11th Doctor's TARDIS was kind of a nice hangout, whereas with 9 and 10, it was just a way to get from one place to another. I loved the 12th Doctor's TARDIS the most, and that had a hangout vibe to it to.
I always wanted to see more of it, like kitchen and library and whatever else. It's meant to feel huge, but when we only see the control room and occasionally some anonymous hallways it doesn't really. And it can't really feel like a home when it's got none of the recognizable parts which make a home livable.
@@jvblhc Yes, it felt very empty. I get they were trying to make the TARDIS seem alive by emulating coral but it made the whole place seem rather impersonal.
Yeah, I’ve been arguing since Moffat’s tenure that a lotta people were viewing Davies’ tenure through “Rose [no pun intended, but apt] Coloured Glasses”. Personally? I’d be happier if Davies *and* Moffat were brought in as co-producers. I think they’d each counter the other’s more annoying habits (that is, Davies’ habit of drifting into daft camp, and Moffat’s habit of disappearing into circuitous knots.)
I’ve been saying for ages that a duo showrunner would be a great idea. Get one person who specialises in unique ideas, interesting plots and creates the blueprints of characters. Then another person who specialises in writing sci fi, drama, action, horror etc.
Davies also had the annoying habit of the story being saved by pressing some magic button. Sometimes he was also a bit repetitive. Moffat had the bad habit of not always resolving the plot effectively and just leaving us scratching our heads. He also had a tendency to overuse things a lot weeping angels cough cough 😷. He also retconned some of the stuff he made himself. But I’d love to see them together because they are both phenomenal writers they just need someone to help them with their errors. I’ll admit I love Jodie’s era but I think if Chibnal had Moffat and Davies writing episodes that people claim are bad then they may have turned out better. Xx
I actually feel exactly the opposite about the mystery box thing - stuff like Bad Wolf and Saxon were so unobtrusive that I didn't mind them at all, but under Moffat the season arcs changed from occasional mentions to really obnoxious distractions. I think it worked in Series 5 but never really did after that.
I agree. I feel like I can pick up almost any episode of Davies' run and just watch it. With Moffat half the episodes spend a lot of their time advancing arc plot stuff and it's offputting if I'm not invested in the arc plot.
I rarely picked up on any of Russel's mystery box things until the very end of the stories, when I slap my palm on my head and say "Oh, THAT's what it was!". I love a lot of Moffat's stuff, but that guy can just bang things over your head again and again until you want the pain to stop and the fun stories to continue. Moffat's time with Capaldi was much more to my liking.
I agree. Most people who watched the show under RTD were casual viewers. Unobtrusive but thematically building is the way to go. Moffat has talked about experimenting with the degree of overall arc that fit, and I think it’s telling he dialled it way down in his later series.
I was worried when clicking on the video that you were gonna open my eyes to some glaring issues from his run that I'd overlooked, but actually a lot of the points you raised were things I either really liked about his era or things that didn't bother me too much. I appreciate that they're not to everyone's tastes, but they definitely appeal to mine :)
Tbf, no era of the show has ever been perfect, but for my mind RTD was the most consistent in terms of quality (Love and Monsters aside). Moffat may have reached higher highs but he also sunk to much lower lows and as for Chibbers, I think he's a good writer but not really suited to the job of running a show like Doctor Who. I feel like RTD's return will be a return to relatively consistent quality sci-fi drama that keeps people coming back for more and only occasionally tries to blow people's minds but always succeeds when it does
Moffat in my humble opinion had some of the best individual stories but in terms of overarching stories they didn't really pan out. I almost quit watching towards the end of Capaldi's run because it was beginning to feel a bit forced and you could tell he wasn't enjoying it anymore. Chibnall while he has his strengths Doctor Who was out of his depth and you could tell. He was amazing on Broadchurch but the two shows are vastly different in scope. While I enjoyed his run he definitely made some questionable choices and lost favor with a lot of the fanbase. It's a shame things have to end this way but I'm looking forward to RTD returning because while he wasn't perfect he really understood what Doctor Who was at its core and had a vision like no other. I'm excited to see where he takes the show.
Well, the thing with RTD is that even love and monsters was well written. It was terribly EXECUTED, but it’s a story about how aliens affect the ordinary and the pain of those left behind.
I agree on your differences between RTD and Moffat. I've previously described them like a signal on an oscilloscope. RTD is a consistent, steady sound wave of troughs and peaks, whereas Moffat is more like a harsher series of jaggies, with higher peaks but also lower troughs. Chibnall is....well....I can't say a flatline but it's only occasional blips in the really positive. I do prefer Moffat to RTD but it's close, it's just that Moffat's style appealed to me more. I also take into consideration that many of my favourite RTD era episodes (certainly not all) were written by Moffat. I'm definitely looking forward to RTD coming back and I think he can bring something new (and much needed) but I also have my expectations in check. He isn't the second coming, as some people think, but he does understand the show and the Doctor. Which is something Chibnall never really did, at least not yet.
I never thought RTD's era was perfect (at least I haven't since I started actually paying attention), but I think it did very well in the ways that matters.
Those track closely with my own criticisms. The romance and family drama weren't what I was looking for on Who, but ultimately what bothered me more than building up to big "event" finales which were terrible. I enjoyed them, but in a trashy way despite themselves. I remember seeing RTD explain this (probably on Confidential) how he wanted to give everybody some gushing emotional climax, and everything else was kind of secondary. The sloppiness of the finales made the peppering of clues throughout the series even more tedious. Then again, I am somebody who thinks the solo Marvel movies (and television) were all far more interesting and eventful than the Avengers for similar reasons, so YMMV. "Nevermind the dynamics, motivations, and decisions we've explored - don't you wonder why purple Space Grimace is here?" "Um, no, not especially..."
The thing is, I feel that the soap opera stuff was exactly where mid-noughties British television audiences were. I don't believe a hardcore sci-fi show would have got off the ground to nearly the same extent.
Great video. I agree with all your points, especially the point about overblown season finales under RTF’s first run. I would add to that his tendency towards deus ex machina finale resolutions, although Moffit certainly did that too. But I would take issue with the statement that classic series companions’ exits weren’t generally poignant or traumatic (I know you haven’t seen all of the classic series yet). Although they botched a few of them in the early years, often due to actors’ contract issues (Vicki, Dodo, Ben and Polly), several of them were played up extremely poignantly (Barbara and Ian, Jo’s tearful goodbye, Sara Jane’s abrupt banishing). And some were quite traumatic (Victoria and Tegan becoming overwhelmed by monsters and deaths, Zoe and Jamie’s memory wipes, and of course various deaths of companions. I think the main difference in the older stories is these things were usually handled more as an afterthought or epilogue, rather than taking up a large portion of the story time as in the modern show.
The old show also did this sort of "out of sight, out of mind" thing. Old school companions were rarely mentioned once they left, so even if they left under less than ideal circumstances, it wasn't dwelt on like it is in Nu Who. And I'm not saying one's better than the other, just that it's different.
I agree with most of your thoughts, but I must say I loved the character of Donna's mother. She did a great job in Turn left. And with a mother like that, one gets why Donna is like she is.
I felt the same way about Martha's mother. Yes, she was annoying, but in the end, we realize she was just worried about her daughter. And just a little look between her and The Doctor at the end of Last of the Time Lords showed that they both have made their peace with each other.
I loved that first season. It's in my top five. Granted, some of it was very silly, and other parts were dated, but the chemistry between Chris and Billie was superb, and most of the stories were excellent. Overall, it was a very good season. Very re-watchable, which I can personally attest to!
@@jvblhc Well it is well over a decade old so of course it's going to be dated. Like the game show stuff is pretty dated. And the rather obvious New Labour caricatures. Though Saxon somehow doesn't feel too dated considering... well, he did another Nestene story.
Interesting analysis of the companions' departures. During RTD's era, the running theme seemed to be 'Companion from Earth leads humdrum life, meets the Doctor, discovers the wonders of the universe and along with it, their potential. By contrast, Moffat's and Chibnall's eras (at least, with Amy and Rory, and Ryan and Graham) have been more: 'Companion from Earth meets the Doctor, explores the universe, and comes to appreciate the wonders of everyday life back on Earth'.
It's funny I used to have a pretty low opinion of the RTD era when I started out. It was only when I revisited that era properly I fell in love with it. But even now I can say there were some pretty bad flaws which I hope Russel has grown beyond and will avoid come his second go around. The man indisputably know how to write his Who but like any writer he's had his share of muck ups. People idolising his era as one without fault are playing a dangerous game of pedestals.
The Bad Wolf mystery box was probably the most shoehorned, but I always felt RTD got better with them as his series progressed, crescendoing with the planets disappearing in S4. Also the four knocks twist was an absolute gut punch.
The thing about RTD that I will always love is the dialogue/dress of the companions feels like how people from those back grounds talked in those eras.
personally, i absolutely love when we see companion's domestic life! i love seeing their families every now and again; it makes them feel real and human. and when they come back and have adventures in modern day earth it makes it feel relatable and interactive, to an extent.
I definitely agree about the companion departures. in the whole of classic Who we got just ONE companion who completely lost it after one of Who's most brutal ever episodes. And it left the doctor and the audience gobsmacked. We got three deaths and they were all real, final, one-way deaths, though to be fair it was Moffat who was the revolving door death specialist. All the "torn apart" departures were like "hey doc I've met this guy/found my calling, see ya" and only Susan's earned a speech, so at least RTD spared us that.
Off topic but I have a shirt just like that except like a little off the shoulder I love yours!! Looks so cute 🥰 also on topic I realized RTD was my fave Era so I'm trying to be realistic but at the same time I am optimistic, I don't hope for the same thing as RTD's first run, I'm actually hoping to see what new ideas he'll have after all this time! I'm cautiously pumped 😄
I'm way more excited about RTD's return than I ever was during his first run because of his writing after Doctor Who - so many excellent shows have come out in the last decade that he's been involved in, including A Very English Scandal, It's A Sin and the underrated Years & Years. I agree with most of your commentary on his Doctor Who years, though I personally love the domesticity aspect.
It will be interesting to see what you mean by this. Perhaps it is a caution to high expectations. I feel this is always a prudent mood regardless of circumstances. Sometimes it does feel like people put RTD on some kind of pedestal. I don’t hear a lot about his faults, especially In the inevitable comparisons between him and Moffat. I will catch this on the replay. It sounds like an important discussion.
I'm not looking for high expectations. I'm just looking for a Doctor Who series where halfway through an episode, I start wonder if there is something better on another channel.
I definitely agree with some parts: I think the campiness in series 1 definitely needed turning down, and Doctor/companion relationships don't work for me at all (if nothing else he is essentially an immortal, genius alien with the ability to change bodies, would he pursue relationships with 20 something year old women from Earth, pretty much exclusively?). But, I must say I'm a massive fan of the domestic home life stuff, it really helped round out the characters back story and personality for me, informing the audience for why they are the way they are. With Rose, Martha and Donna I feel you can take any of their actions and explain it by looking at their relationships with family or friends. IDK, I just really like the home life aspect
Damm, now I want the Doctor to go full Rick and decide to go intercourse with a planet or some celestial alien. Seriously tho, I think that the Doctor would see human romance as a novelty rather than anything meaningful, and *maybe* some good stories could come out with a human and a Timelord having relationship issues that wouldn't happen if they were just two humans. But because ot the short time the Doctor spend with his companions on RTD era, the interesting aspects about a interspecies relationship could never show up, giving room only to the generic aspect that didn't quite fit to Doctor Who for some people. In the end, the only factor that got in the show about the companions relationship was the danger of traveling with the Doctor, but this danger would still be the same if the Doctor was just an human scientist, so its kinda redundant to the issue.
@@vanessalore9942 During my teenage years I was the only one in my friendship group who liked (or at least appreciated) what Moffat was doing with the show, and I cannot begin to describe how frustrating it was to hear Moffat get treated like the antichrist while Davies was put on a pedestal by the rest of my friends, in spite of his writing being just as flawed as Moffat's, just in different ways
@@christianwise637 I always liked Moffat more than Davies anyway. Sometimes he miscalculated like giving River Song the ability to regenerate despite both of her parents being human (yes, she was conceived in the Time Vortex but she was still about 90% human) or forgetting that the Great Intelligence is supposed to be above something as petty as revenge but for the most part, I really liked Moffat's writing decisions. You could tell that he loved Doctor Who and a fan is always going to put more effort and heart into their work.
Yep The magic formula is Moff+Davies...And people moaned about Gatiss's episodes, but I'd totally have him around to help with the mood lighting. His stories were always filled with beautiful little touches particularly in set design and historical references: I'd totally have him as a script and set advisor.
To me, RTD's biggest sin was what he did to the character of Martha. She started out in the first episode as this strong, intelligent character and there was a lot of potential to have a companion like that, but instead he almost immediately had her start mooning after the Doctor, which completely undermined the character. Then, even though he did have her make the decision that it was bad for her and decide to leave, but he turns around and romantically pairs her up with Mickey, for some reason that makes no sense within the context of anything we saw in the show. And as you mentioned, I really didn't like the constant return to present day Earth. Too many episodes were/are set there, in my opinion. The show is supposed to be about adventures in time and space, so there are endless options that aren't present day Earth. I also REALLY want to see a companion that isn't from present day Earth, but I'm starting to think it's never going to happen.
RTD was not perfect, but I will always love his series above Moffat's and definitely above Chibnall's. I look forward to see what he does when he takes over as show runner. I also have no problem about his sprinkling of Bad Wolf or Torchwood or Saxon in the episodes. Unlike Moffat (and I like Moffat), RTD just dropped things in there without caring whether you get it or not. Who really members anything about the bees disappearing, until the final episode? I know I didn't. As opposed to Moffat, who seemed to need to bash fans over the head with "Silence Will Fall! The Pandorica Will Open" and all that Moffat-y stuff again and again. I also love the family feel, with Jackie, Martha's family, Wilf and Donna's Mom. There was more at stake when the families were involved. Moffat left all that stuff on the floor. I think we saw Rory and Amy's family in The Big Bang, and then they were gone forever. I was happy to see Chibnall create Brian Williams, a guy who would have fit right in with the RTD years. But by the time we got the chance to love him, Rory and Amy were gone, and therefore, so was Brian.
It really is a contrast between the three writers, I think. And I love all of them. To me, RTD is very much an emotional writer. He loves doing the emotional scene that's going to make the characters relatable and/or bring the audience to their knees in tears. And it works - most of them. Whereas Moffat embraced more of the swashbuckler side of the Doctor - the adventurer, the explorer! Chibnall is trying to be both, inside the Doctor Who universe, but hasn't quite worked out how to do that - that's why his era feels so splintered and all over the place. He's a great dramatic writer (Broadchurch - Hello!) that I'm not sure belongs in the sci-fi genre.
One of the few problems I had with the critiques of the RTD era was "The Domestics." Most people are going to have something tying them back to their homes. If I got on the TARDIS, and if most people got on the TARDIS, they'd want to come back to see their families and friends. Homesickness is a thing that most people feel. Also, people can feel more connection to a story if it is set on Earth, so that is a good reason to come back to our home planet, but I do agree that the show needs to shake this up a bit. I particularly liked your mentioning of having companions from different times are planets, which NEEDS to happen. If we got I companion like that, I would be incredibly disappointed if they didn't go back to their home. Setting up someones roots is a very important thing to do, and it rounds out the character more.
I’m glad you mentioned the finales. That in hindsight was always my issue of “power creep” with the finales, despite how much I do love them individually. Whole Moffat had his problems, and some power creep too too (though how much of that is because of the standard set by RTD?) it never felt the same as RTD’s stuff and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. For all the faults, and the fact I’ve not seen the first finale of Jo’s Doctor, I think this is one area Chris successfully broke from.
I had my problems with RTD, especially right at the end where everybody became The Masters. I remember thinking "Seriously, this is how you want to finish the Tenth Doctor's run?" But overall, I enjoyed his era more than Moffat's (and, as usual, I must say I enjoyed most of Moffat's years) and definitely more than Chibnall's era.
Series 2 is probably the quintessential showcase for both the biggest strengths and the biggest weaknesses of RTD's original run. The highs of the series were very high, the lows were EXTREMELY low, and the middles were forgettable.
Yes. But for me, the high points and good stories cancelled out several other bad or blah stories. I can live with Fear Her and several other stories as long as I get School Reunion, The Girl in the Fireplace, Army of Ghosts, etc.
Nothing is perfect. And Doctor Who was definitely never perfect. I enjoyed RTD's run the first time around (although the Moffat-Era was more my cup of tea). I'm excited to see what RTD brings to the table after spending some time away :)
@Tom Meehan I just find it tiring when people bash Moffat for doing the same or similar things RTD did. I’m guilty of nostalgia and have no problem with it. I wish they’d stop putting down my preferences while listing theirs up on some kind of shrine. Having said all that, I have friends who can’t stand Moffat and we get along fine. We live and let live and bond over Classic Who.
Most of what you didn't like is what I love in his era ^^ I really love the feeling of realism with the companion's families, it just speak to me a lot, it did as a kid and it still does now. I guess his self indulgence and mine are similar
I agree. The characters in these families are often not the best but it really helps with the realism and the attachment of the companions to Earth. The Doctor never really wants to land because his life is completely devoted to space but I think it's good that the companions contrast with him in this way
I remember him saying that and I completely disagreed at the time. Some of the best classic stories don't even take place on Earth... or threaten anything but the lives of the characters you care about (see Caves of Androzani). I think Davies wrote such strong characters, he could have easily made us care about his stories without threatening the entire Earth every other week.
@@joelakat I agree - and to be fair I think RTD became less of a purist about this as time went on. Earth isn't even indirectly involved in several stories from his later seasons. I imagine Earth will be in dire danger in all his finales even in his second run, though...
I think I disagree with most of these things here, but that just speaks to our different taste in media. I always loved an extra layer of cheese and camp in my science fiction, so I don’t mind that early-installment camp. The “mystery boxes” as you referred to them I think are at least self-contained enough to not be too obtrusive. I don’t mind seeing the companions’ home life and what they leave behind, but I do agree that does take us to earth a bit too much and I’d love to see more companions who aren’t from modern day earth. And as for the indulgence, a lot of it worked for me. The Stolen Earth/ Journey’s End being the ultimate finale is cool with everyone coming back for one epic romp (though the ending leaves a lot to be desired.) Seeing Daleks fight Cybermen? Awesome. Wish it wasn’t so one sided and it’s a matchup I think could work again. The doctor being Jesus? Ehhh not as big on that. Great video, well explained, I’m glad I’ve finally been checking out your stuff. Your perspective is fresh and I like hearing your thoughts.
I feel like RTDs return to modern day earth bothered me the most becusee it was almost always in some Boeing London suburbs, or Cardiff and the two often blended together because for filming, the latter usually stood in for the former!
What I have appreciated about the Chibnall era is filming on locations that aren't Cardiff backstreets. Nothing wrong with Cardiff, but it isn't that big a city, so after a while all the location shooting kind of started to look the same.
I disagree about the domestics. For me, knowing how Donna's mother treated her was the key to understanding her bristling defensiveness that made her so different from the other companions. Not a fan of Martha's family, they just weren't interesting or unexpected. Just kind of standard moderate dysfunction. A plot point to drive Martha. I believe that to have well-rounded modern companions you have to deal with the hole left behind from all their travelling, in a real, nuanced way. But like everything else, it doesn't have to be the standard close knit family, (even a non-standard close knit family, like Rose and her mom) and that's where all the showrunners so far have gravitated towards. I like that there are consequences to the Companions' travelling. That there are real people left behind who miss them, and are affected by it, and that should always be part of the show going forward. They just need to stretch themselves about who and how.
The first time I knew RTD’s name was Doctor Who, by that time my mom bought a new TV, which we were able to watch a lot of famous English TV shows in a free channel, I watched Doctor Who, I still remember the first episode was so usually from most Sci-fi television I’ve watched, the plastic creature, and they weirdly chasing a girl in a mall, and a man, appeared from nowhere to ask Rose to go with him. I thought, yes, I could accept that(now recalling that the time was later 2014 or early 2015 something, my preference for television was largely confined by the robotic patterns horribly contributed to my country). Jackie, Rose’s mother, that impression of her temporary crushing of Doctor,that’s hilarious. That episode Doctor helped Rose go back to the time before her father’s death, and that episode of trapped ghosts trying to persuade a young girl to help them cross the boundaries of worlds, and the freaking children of “where is my mommy”, I wouldn’t say I completely loved it because of my poor taste, but I’d love to watch the whole series(also my lasting favorite television character Sheldon from TBBT loooooves watch Doctor Who, I know he means Classic DW)The kiss in the last episode season 1, yeah, that kiss was really hooked your expectation of what would happen between them. Then the season 2, maybe someone was like me that wasn’t expecting 10 is quite different from 9?? I mean, 9 is like a man you would like to date secretly, he would sometimes buy you present, he is mature, maybe sometime he would give you money or something like that, 10 is like when you see him you would say to him”Dude let’s go out”. The whole season 2 was like watching two people falling in love, he’s trying to show much of the good things as he could to her. Clever writers, didn’t put the cause of Doctor and Rose’s separation on human, instead cybermen caused it, because of this I didn’t like cybermen🙃, Dudu, that was too far! How can you split two people because of evil robots try to destroy the worlds? Yeah, I was naive. Ok, season 3, you could tell by watching Doctor’s sad, lonely face that he’s missing Rose in every episode… it’s not Martha’s fault, it’s he’s so sad. I was sad either, why the hell they change a main character in every fucking season, it’s like you just slowly getting comfortable with her/him, then her/him was gone, again and again. Yeah… back to my subject of RTD,in the last scene of Doctor and Rose, he said “I burned a super nova to see you again,” I can’t remember the whole sentence sorry, but Christ, this line was the most romantic sentences I’ve ever heard from television series by that time(I was a huge television show fan). You started to wonder what kind of writers could write things like that💣. (Although I always wondered that, is it too environmentally unfriendly that Doctor burned a super nova, you know, he’s Doctor..) However, the show is very educational, in a good sense. The second time I paid attention to RTD’s name because of Queer as Folk, I can’t say how that show changed my life, because I don’t have any fucking idea. Someday I accidentally discovered that British version of QAF and the first four seasons of Doctor Who is written by a same man, I still remember that day, because my fondness for both shows, I thought, wow, his mind is stunning. I thought he must be quite old, like that 70 years old Shakespeare way of old. But he’s not, I followed him on Instagram, he’s much younger than I previously thought. Quite respect of him, those shows he wrote, Cucumbers, A Very British Scandal, Years and Years, if somebody happened to be born in a country where the freedom of expression is deeply restricted, those tv shows are really educational. Yeah, just these, he’s a nice guy, he liked my comment once. These days I’m watching Classic Doctor Who, now I can understand why Sheldon loves that. I couldn’t watch it before because I could find nowhere to watch the show in my country at least in my poor knowledge, thanks to my sister now I watch that everyday in my iPad. I worried about what if the new episodes of Doctor Who weren’t good enough either. But who the hell I am? If I wasn’t into the new episodes, somebody else would, I’m not the only fucking audience, I dropped most episodes of first season of 13, I don’t know, maybe I would like her later?? I don’t mind the new seasons of Doctor Who would be written by RTD or Moffat, can I like both of their styles too? Though I quite interested of RTD’s new work. Yeah.. just these, I like the new episode of DW, I watched last night, I know it wasn’t written by RTD.
11:21 - 14:54 I personally didn't mind the domestics as I think it would only be realistic for companions to have someone attached to them back in their time but it felt a bit repetitive. Mix it up a little, like have their attachments be fellow students while their parents live across the country, have it be their workplace with older companions who already had a job (it wasn't RTD anymore but they could've taken the plot from The Power of Three and make it into a season arc where the companions struggle with where they belong - like Rory dealing with the work relationships he has with his co-workers - and eventually decide that their Earth life and work is more important to them, maybe even with the added fact that having travelled in time gave them a new incentive - for instance, Rory could've learned about interesting new healing methods (past and future) that he now applies to his patients). Or, if it had to be a family connection, weave that into the plot: have the companion struggle with their parents only to travel back in time several times to find out the history of their family which changes the way they see their parents. Or it could lead them to finally stand up to their parents having learned to do that due to travelling with the Doctor.
Thank you for saying this stuff. There's been too much blind praise for RTD completely overlooking his shortcomings as a writer and show runner. It's not that he wasn't good at what he did. To me, the difference between his vision (and by extension all that's come since) and the classic series is a bit like when professional wrestling morphed into sports entertainment. It's bigger, it's flashier, it's hipper and so on, but it's missing a lot of what made the older version great.
I think there were some less successful aspects of RTD's time on the series, I agree the story arcs were a bit bolted on but were a novelty for Doctor Who (apart from The Key to Time and The Trial of a TimeLord maybe). The fact that Doctor Who didn't have a USA writers' room set up and is still screened out of production order probably made a meaningful arc a bit difficult and there weren't enough episodes to have arc srories alternating with non arc stories like The X-Files did. The things that I see as successful involved Dr Who becoming an "Event" or what they'd call in the 60s a "craze". The toys were awesome and hearing kids out shopping with their parents and excitedly talking about how they could kill a Dalek was fantastic fun. I think the BBC are hoping he will bring the child audience back to the series. I also loved travelling to Palm Springs and over hearing a guy in a Mexican Restaurant raving about the show to his partner. BTW Earth/human being stories are great. They help emphasise Dr Who as time travel. If you don't have humans in the past, present and future the show might as well be Star Trek. The night shooting was great, really atmospheric, and Pertwee on Earth rocked so... RTD is a clever writer, I look forward to seeing what he does back on the show. I was middle aged when Rose was screened so I honestly didn't mind aspects that weren't to my taste. Good! Let the kids have their show back!
Maybe due to his background in children's television his run leaned more child friendly and I loved that. The best time I had watching Doctor Who was with my nephew.
I'm of a mind to be cautiously optimistic, but I am of the same as you, I'd prefer we see a new approach. I also want a companion from somewhere else! I also definitely had problems with RTD's run, the same as any other show runner, so it's not such a super hot take.
I excited for the return of Doctor Who, one of my favourite things about it is your reviews. I hope its good, but even on bad episodes your reviews tend to provide mirth and enlightenment. I partly watch your stuff because of your breakdowns, as someone who plans to try my hand at fiction one day, your insights are informative. But what hooks me is your love and passion for the Doctor (your reviews on Gotham were excellent too, i very much enjoyed that :) )
Agree with everything here - the one other thing, and I’m pretty positive I’ve mentioned this in a comment before, I’ve noticed when one looks at Doctor Who and Torchwood together, is that his wlw characters seem to consist entirely of “evil alien masquerading as a woman who needs to die” with the sometimes added zest of “whomst is preying on a series regular whose attraction(?) to women is never brought up again outside of this one specific episode”
I totally agree with all of your points. I posted many of them on your video where you announced his return. Overall, I think I'd rather he had been the showrunner for the new QAF, where I think he did a much better job than he did on DW. I'd have loved to see what MJS would've have done with it, but I guess he's going to be busy with the B5 reboot. Another one that I think could bring a new vision in is Ronald D. Moore, who could've made it feel more like it was happening the real world - the way he did with reimagining Battlestar Galactica so that it didn't seem cheesy.
One thing I will say about this is that I personally like the shift in the Modern series to give us more complicated endings for the companions. Mainly because I feel it makes sense. The Doctor takes human beings out of their time on all these crazy adventures where they have near-death experiences on a regular basis, and I feel it's only natural to show in the series how that impacts them. I certainly wouldn't be the kind of person who could handle that sort of life forever, but I can imagine that it would change me and probably traumatize me. I can also guess that it might be tough to reintegrate back into a normal existence afterward, and I like that the RTD era explored that potentially tragic side of being a human traveling alongside the Doctor. Now, I can definitely understand and even get behind this video's criticisms about the romanticizing of the Doctor, but at the same time I also think there was something intrinsically human about RTD's era that I really liked, and that went beyond pretty much anything I've watched from the Classic era. The companions felt like real people with their own flaws and insecurities and dysfunctional family dynamics. They weren't just there to adventure and have a grand old time and then leave --- but to learn about themselves and the universe, coming away permanently changed, and ultimately teach the Doctor a thing or two/impact him in some way. The main point of RTD's era, I think, was that the Doctor at the end of the day was no better than anyone else. And in the wake of the Time War, the things that set him apart from humanity were viewed as simultaneously wonderful and tragic.
RTD based Series 1 on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. With the story arc and the "Big Bad" and the campiness. But - Romance depicts the feelings that occur in love relationship, courtship and secret lovers or impossible lovers. Romanticism is a philosophy of freedom that is manifested in Literature, Fine Arts, Music and painting of the 19th Century in Europe and America.
Whoever said he was perfect? Nobody's perfect...not even the Doctor. 😋 And by the way, absolutely love your hair pulled back with the braid to the side, and the way your ear studs pick up the blue in hair!!!! 💙💙💙
RTD's run was not perfect (and we mostly remember his run as good because of the Moffat episodes) but it was entertaining and, in the end, this is what matters.
I know it’s easy to look at RTD’s (first) run on Doctor Who with Rose tinted glasses, but it was a far better quality show than what we’ve got under Chibnall.
Honestly the main issue with Chibnall is not his lack of talent or vision but his fundamental misunderstanding of what made Doctor Who, Doctor Who. And I think it boils down to this was something well out of his depth and he was figuring it out as he went and to his detriment felt like he was trying to reinvent the wheel. He did good work on Broadchurch but that is very different to Doctor Who in scope and I don't think he ever really understood that. It's a shame because Jodie is a lovely Actress and if she had a good showrunner could have been amazing as the doctor but a lot of it was wasted.
I found the biggest problem with the RTD era to be the overall approach following the first series. I think he absolutely nailed the time war backstory and the daleks with 9, but after that nothing old should have come back. The first series felt like the show was giving one last nostalgic look at the past by killing off the daleks, the time lords being dead and the cybermen also just a museum piece, all leaving the Doctor to figure out a new direction for his life in the future. You get the impression that now the show would move on to new things, but no, RTD brings back all the staple villains series after series and structures the whole show to support their return by giving the old villains the main slot in the finales and the overarching story. While he was very successful in reintroducing these villains, I find this keeps the show trapped in it's history and the audience gets the impression this is what the show is and should be like, and such expectations from the audience don't help the show shake it's baggage. It's ironic RTD chose to go this way since the time war was created to wipe the slate clean specifically so this wouldn't happen. But fans are fans and he is one, so I guess his inner fanboy won and the bold writer lost. I really feel RTD should have moved on to new ideas after series one but instead his era solidified this false notion that Doctor Who has to bring back the same characters, format and approach each series. This really shuts the show down creatively and if there ever was a show where wild experimentation should be the norm, it's this one. I also quite dislike it when a writer turns the Doctor into an all powerful space Jesus saving worlds from evil alien forces, and RTD was guilty of this way too often. I swear if RTD brings back the daleks, the Master and the cybermen during his new tenure and makes them the focal point I'll be very disappointed. But don't get me wrong, the RTD era is still my personal favorite on TV thus far, mainly because of the grounded character writing and themes. I just feel the show could be even greater if it tapped into it's full potential.
@UCGbqXzaqzL7AzjQLWG94vqA Yes, I know, it's tradition for each Doctor to face them and I'm all for them appearing in small doses in one episode every once in a while if they are done well, I just don't want them to be the focus anymore in the main story and the finales. Otherwise they will overshadow any new villains or ideas and limit the show.
That's a good point. It didn't really rear its head too badly until after he left, but by the Moffat era I was already feeling like "oh no, not another dalek episode" and I can see how that's kind of Davies' fault for setting the trend.
This is just a silly beef. In series 2 of classic Who the Daleks were the focal point of 3 multi-episode stories. In ALL of RTD's run, they were the focal point of 4 episodes. In fact, over the first 12 series of classic Who, there was only one season that didn't have a least one Dalek-focused story which ran over multiple episodes. Likewise, the Cybermen were the focal point of 5 episodes of RTD's run, however 4 of them were 2-episode arcs that under the classic show would have been done in stories which would have likely aired over 8 to 10 episodes! Classic series 4, 5, and 6 all had 2 full Cybermen-centric stories, each taking up 8 to 10 episodes. Similarly, the Master was involved in one arc of 3 episodes of RTD's run, and one more time in the finale of the short season. Again, in the Classic era, there were several series that had lengthy Master stories spanning over multiple episodes, beginning again all the way back with Doctor #3 and playing a significant role for every incarnation of the Doctor after, particularly Doctor #4, which is arguably the go-to incarnation for what makes Doctor Who feel like Doctor Who. In fact, Doctor #4 encountered all of these foils on a semi-regular basis and was among the most-engaged with the Time Lords as well. To ignore the significance of these recurring characters would have made the show feel a lot less like Doctor Who, especially for fans of the classic series. I think RTD was smart, and I think you're exaggerating the amount of emphasis he put on them. Then you look at new Who series 11 which everyone basically despises, and Chibnall did effectively what you are suggesting. It isn't so easy to make successful Doctor Who without including some of his most memorable foils. I personally wasn't sold on RTD's series 1 until the episode "Dalek," and I would have been rather disappointed had the Master never returned, as most of his stories are still among the most memorable classic Who stories. I think you're right in saying that Moffat relied on these tropes too much, but to blame that on Davies is basically saying he should have turned Doctor Who into a completely different Sci Fi show, because that's what it would have been without "Dalek" and several other very memorable episodes.
@@TheWesterlyWarlock Just because something was done on Classic Who doesn't mean was a good idea then, let alone that it would be a good idea now. It's also easier now than it was back then to binge a bunch of past stories in a row, which probably makes it a lot more noticeable if certain ideas are being reused a lot. That being said, Davies did have the habit of using Daleks, Cybermen or The Master in series finale storylines that had been built up to for the whole series with the mystery box format, which inevitably makes it *feel* like a lot of emphasis was put on them in retrospect regardless how much truth there is too that feeling. Davies doing that less often could've gone a long way to making more fans' reactions to those villains' reapearances be "oh yeah, haven't seen them for a series or two, wonder what they'll do this time" or even "ooh it's one of the *big* badies this time!" instead of "(sigh), here we go again." I personally think that as long as you still have The Doctor and his/her companions traveling through time and space, interacting with and helping different people and fighting different villains each time, it would still feel like Doctor Who with or without villains from the classic show. My policy would be to still use them once in a while, but do it very sparingly - even to the point of there sometimes being multiple series without them - so that when they do show up it feels like a bigger deal (like how "Star Trek: The Next Generation" handled the Borg or "Adventure Time" handled The Lich). Also, the Daleks are kind of boring. They don't have to be, but they were after a while during the parts of Modern Who they I watched because they pretty much did the same thing every time. There's only so many times I want to watch villains whose evil plan seldom amounts to more than "shoot everyone in sight."
Nope, he definitely wasn’t perfect. for one thing he was great at reinventing old monsters, but a lot of his new ones weren’t very good. Tennant was fantastic but he definitely overdid the attraction to him from everyone he met; Moffat gets so much criticism for that but it started with RTD. Look, I’m SUPER hyped for his return, because he understands why The Doctor and Doctor Who are important, but I won’t pretend his run had zero flaws. It absolutely had plenty.
Id argue he had the best monsters: adipose, Vashta Nerada, the family of Blood, Sleetheen, Judoon, the flood, weeping Angles, the gasmasks, reapers and the midnight monster!
think Martha is the best companion. But she didn't need the lovestory with the Doctor, however I think Russel fixed this by giving her a Unit storyline. That being said her final scene in series 3 talking about her friend in love with a student named Sean was amazing. That story is from everyone's past and Russel hit home. Naturally, Eccleston is the best thing to come out his era.
of course it wasn't perfect and i don't think any fan of the era would argue it was. but i disagree with a lot of these arguments. for example, the family element - sylvia is so important to donna's character and we wouldn't have turn left without her! wilf and sylvia are the angel and devil on shoulders, one is supportive and wants her to be her best self, the other holds her back and berates her constantly. sylvia explains why donna is the way she is and why she wants to get away from her home life. the families give you the sense of what the companion is leaving behind, adding stakes and reasons to get away and also reasons to come back. and each family dynamic was different. (plus it makes sense for nine and ten, who don't have a home, to have a sort of found family and grow accustomed to a different planet like three did) the family element was sorely missing from the moffat era, it didn't need to be as central, but even when his companions leave, die, etc we get little to no sense of how their families feel about that. there's a weird void there. if rose died, i know how jackie would feel about that. even if we weren't shown, i could imagine. i have no idea what dave (i had to google his name) thinks of clara being gone. does he even know?
The good thing about Davies was that he was a safe pair of hands, a bit like Graham Williams. He knew what worked and was confident enough to implement it. Both producers had a good ear for drama, dialogue, etc. And, come rain or sunshine, the show got made.
Nothing is perfect! And that's okay, I will say though that RTD's new era will definitely not be the same as his first - he has massively evolved as a writer since then and that is what makes me so excited to see what he will do but I do agree, that his first era is often looked at with Rose (literally) tinted glasses and I do get why but... yeah. I enjoy all 3 of the main showrunner eras so far though - I enjoyed Moffat and am enjoying Chibnall too and their eras are definitely not flawless either - again, nothing is! Not even Doctor Who, but I still love and adore this show, it's still a brilliant show despite it's many imperfections and flaws!
I will say this, they all did things right and wrong. I think though out of all of them Moffat made me fall out of love with the show. I couldn't tell you when exactly it happened but I almost didn't come back because I would leave each episode feeling unsatisfied. There were some good moments but a lot of it I just lost intetest in. Chibnall despite all his flaws and his questionable choices gave me a newfound love for the show. None of them are perfect and after all story telling is rather subjective but there are things that work and things that don't.
08:52 FINALLY! Every time I bring up companion exits, there are people that say it's okay because they didn't die. Rose trapped on another world (original exit, the other one is separate), Donna's memories gone, Amy and Rory lived to death, Clara dead weirdly more than Rory, and Bill turned into a Cyberman and later space water. You're definitely right about Martha leaving because of the "Year of Hell." It wasn't good to stay with The Doctor at that point. If this is the one thing good about Chibnall is that he let Ryan and Graham leave of their own accord. It was time to go and they left. No trauma. Very classic.
All of these are accurate and valid criticisms, despite my fave season being eccleston's. Personally, if i had access to the tardis I would never leave earth bc i'm a historian and space scares me lol. But i'm not a companion in the series so this is...less than relevant.
Whoever said it was? I well remember contemporary views that his stuff could get camp and melodramatic...everyone has their off days (or episodes in this case) alot of it is people expecting him to "save" a show that doesn't need saving. Like people who hate Disney Star Wars now "remembering" how great the prequels really were. Or how President's often get retroactively more popular because they're not "the current guy". That being said Davies dialogue was often poetically beautiful, as in "not just the Daleks but the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, The Nightmare Child, The Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres" from End of Time...it can't be argued that he is the architect of Who's return and ushered in the golden era of modern Who (critically and ratings wise) and he's done a ton of stuff since which will only have grown his toolbox as a writer. I'm not a hair on fire Chibnall hater, I (like RTD who is on record) love the Timeless Child and the questions and possibilities it raises and can't wait to see where RTD takes it. (Presuming it's not wrapped up in the coming series)
One thing that I both liked and disliked about Davies era (and Moffat) was the constant description of the Doctor as some kind of destructive godly force, a being you would not want to see angered, but this was always just described by the Doctor itself or some character putting him on a pedestal, which in retrospect to me it feels more like a DW fan than a actual in-universe character. It was cool for a child me to hear how amazing and powerful this time-medling ancient alien is, but aside from his off-screen genocide, and his retaliation on the family of blood, he wasn't really the incoming storm, and most of the conflicts were solved with either genius setup or sci-fi technobabble, and on RTD tenure, more specifically the tenth Doctor, he was specifically against any kind of violence, and also more prone to sacrifice himself just so he can give a chance to his enemys, The Sontarian Stratagem being my example. So, when I decided to watch "Remembrance of the Daleks", the only full classic story I watched by now, I was actually satisfied to finally see a glimpse of what the "legends" describes as a "trickster god of destruction", but it still not match with the RTD doctor's fully. To be honest, it can fit if we consider that nine and ten are like broken by their actions, being able to have caused huge destruction, but now being against to even consider causing intentional harm to anyone, and then framing he as someone that, if really on the edge, could actually be a destructive force.
@@tomnorton4277 Oh yeah, I agree with you on that. It's just the felling of the legends being less representative of the Doctor itself. To my point of view as a kid in 2010, NuWho was the only thing that existed about the series, "Rose" was the first episode ever, and his life before the Time War was just as mysterious as his real name and origins, instead of a older show. I guess that its just the consequence of how different the events that happens off-screen, lore and mithos are settled versus how the stories on screen happen, in any medium, not just Doctor Who. Generally, tv shows, movies, games have a definited structure of how the events being watched or played should play out. But stories being told by characters, past events, tales, etc., are not limited by pacing structure, pay-offs, or conclusions. So while the Doctor can have this immense legacy, most stories that we as the audience can experience wll have the Doctor struggling to solve the conflicts or problem until the end, instead of him using all his resources and knowledge to solve any situation. In my headcanon, the Doctor have solved a lot of issues easily, but those stories were not interesting enough to fill 45 minutes of screentime, or multiple 25 minutes episodes spanning weeks, so we don't get the see it.
Glad you brought up the series 2 and 3 finales, I always thought those were too self-indulgent, and the space Jesus thing in series 3 made me mostly dislike that series finale more than I thought possible when I first saw it
@@nekusakura6748 to some degree, because I’m really not a huge fan of fan-servicey things like Rose coming back, Mickey and Martha being a couple (side note - why did they have to be a couple? Because they’re both black??)… part of me doesn’t dislike Donna’s story as much just because she doesn’t have the regular “romance” with the doctor, they’re relationship is slightly different. Actually, the companions (and even the finales, sometimes) are probably the biggest reason(s) why I preferred Moffat to RTD (but RTD is great, of course) as there wasn’t a traditional “romance” with Smith or (especially) Capaldi (my personal favorite Doctor) …. No space Jesus, too, also helps
@@nekusakura6748 oh that’s right, I usually jumble those parts in my head sometimes … regardless, still not much a fan of the obsession with coupling as many characters as possible in relationships, when it happens in any franchise, it really just annoys me, especially when I feel it’s unnecessary to do so
The only point i really agree with here is the stories focusing on modern day earth. I don't have a problem with those stories but it would definitely be much more interesting to go to new planets or revisit old planets at different times.
He never reached the emotional highs and lyricism of Moffet’s best stories but the best thing is he understands how Doctor Who works. Something Chibnall never seemed to get.
Chibnall despite his best efforts was not a good fit. Now if Doctor Who was more or a space drama he would have been a good fit but the things he was trying to do didn't pay off because he didn't understand the show at it's core and tried to make into something it's not. While I enjoyed his run more so than Moffat, I was often left with this feeling that something was missing because it just didn't feel like Doctor Who.
@@eveescastle5866 Chibnall was good in that, when you just needed a filler episode, he was right there. They were never great, but I'd also say they were never horrible either. They were just... episodes. He should have never become a show show runner.
@@eveescastle5866 Can't Doctor Who be a lot of different things, though? I feel like you could just as easily claim that writers portraying the Doctor as more heroic have "made Doctor Who into something it's not" because the doctor in earlier stories (especially the first one, "An Unearthly Child") was kind of an awful person. And you could say Modern Who in general is "trying to make the show something it's not" because Classic Who - at least the serials of it that I've watched - is much slower paced and less action-heavy. The show has changed plenty over time in plenty of other ways, so what's wrong with trying to turn it into a space drama? The fact that that would still be in space would even arguably make it a less radical change than the era of the Third Doctor and UNIT.
i didn't care for RTD's writing on Doctor Who that much (with the exception of " Midnight", which is potentially still my favorite episode of Nu Who to this day), but his real talent was his ability to attract a great stable of writers like Shearman, Cornell and yes, Moffat. He was the showrunner, but it didn't feel as if he was THE writer in the same way as it did (an does) under Moffat and Chibnall.
Honestly we miss him in retrospect but I remember at the time finding a lot of stuff about New Who pretty cringey and awkward as it went on. Not sure how I feel about it overall but definitely an upgrade from Chibnall.
@Tom Meehan I have actually been rewatching Doctor Who. My plan is to rewatch the first 10 series and so far I have rewatched the first 5. RTD was great and it was not perfect but it was certainly great. Also his era felt like a universe cause of the spin off shows. I do hope he brings back the multiple shows aspect like he had in his era. I say series 4 was his best series and the best series of Doctor Who cause almost every episode was a 10/10. For me the Moffett era was good and Chibs era has been unwatchable. I'm not even sure if I want to watch series 13 and I might just wait until 2023 for RTD.
Regarding the "mystery box" format... Isn't dropping mystery boxes, i.e., hints or clues, the whole point of doing an overall story arc? Isn't it part of the storyline so that by the end, the viewer is enthusiastic and engaged in the storyline to the point that s/he goes back, rewatches the season to look for the "mystery boxes" and say to him/herself: "Aha! NOW I get it!" One of my other favorite shows, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER did this for all of its seven seasons--and even had characters in the later seasons say something that referenced an occurrence that occurred in its first seasons. I think doing this is what makes it so enjoyable for fans to go back and rewatch (and rewatch and rewatch and rewatch) DOCTOR WHO, BUFFY, THE SOPRANOS, and other great "serial" shows.
I'm glad you brought up the Buffy comparison, because there's a MASSIVE difference. While some Buffy seasons had mystery box elements (prophecies, the Initiative, Dawn, etc.) that wasn't all they had. Initial answers would start coming FAR before the finales, and sometimes we'd meet the villain right in the first episode of a season. So, you'll have to forgive me if I'm of the opinion that a random turn of phrase that has no meaning until the last couple of episodes isn't exactly the same thing as an active evolving situation and/or a villain we meet and get time with but just don't know their whole plan until later. You appear to be labeling any arc with mystery elements as a "mystery box," but for me it's only a mystery box arc if those mystery elements are basically the entire arc all by themselves.
@@ReversedPolarity I also think it's a fair title. It's a way of teasing folks in without resorting to clickbait. It may not be a hot take but there are fans out there (putting the haters aside) that do consider RTD's run perfect. Especially from those who don't like Moffat's run, so yeah it's definitely a topic worth covering and reiterating. For the first time since I realised Chibnall wasn't working out, I'm excited for the future, which is something I lost over time as I realised Chibnall wasn't working out too well. Yet I also have my expectations in check and to me, that is key.
@@ReversedPolarity Well like many, I went through the downturn in quality during the 80's, then the long drought that followed. So it's not my first time dealing with the show at a low point. However, I never lost hope and even now with Chibnall's upcoming season, I still hope he can show us some of that Broadchurch magic. To coin a phrase from another sci-fi show - All this has happened before and all this will happen again. :-)
@@ReversedPolarity Yeah, Michael Grade in particular hated the show and has openly admitted that it was his mission to end the show when he took charge of the BBC. I'm not someone who needs an answer to be given to everything, only the main points, along with enough info to figure the rest out. As divisive as it ended up being (along with it's faults), it's one of the reasons I enjoyed Lost from start to finish....but that's a discussion for another thread.
"Earth is by default the most boring place" Ehh...I really WANT to agree but I don't, but that's because the show doesn't always do a great job of making other worlds all that exciting compared to exploring time periods or alien encounters on Earth. I mean for the Classic series, almost every alien planet just looked like an abandoned quarry because that's all they were able to shoot in, Four even lampshades this one episode "Oh look! Rocks!" in Destiny of the Daleks. And even in New Who I can't think of that many worlds which really felt that interesting or somewhere I'd wanna go back to, outside of maybe the diamond world in Midnight or, from the classic series, Peladon would be great to return to for a new political allegory. So I'm with you on wanting stories set on other worlds but also we need some actual decent world building and imagination to go into these locations.
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You’re right about RTD not wanting to leave If he was the companion. During an interview before Season One aired Billie Piper said that Russell was odd because he desperately wants to be the companion (as opposed to wanting to be the Doctor).
These are quite the interesting points. I will admit, you can tell that as he got along, things did in improve in his creativity and writing, but he also did sometimes give into stuff that perhaps didn't help the series in the long run. He made Regeneration far more of an issue than other Doctors ever did. It focused more on the fear of dying than the hope of something new to come, as bittersweet as an ending could be. Also, while he was progressive in so many ways, the fact that people fell in love with Ten was somewhat sensible, but too grotesquely sweet that only teena and shippers could enjoy. Though, in regards to how it is written is also due to the landscape of TV at the time. Especially with scifi, fantasy, and horror. Doctor Who was a reaction to Buffy and Supernatural and stuff like Battlestar Galactica and Stargate. Shows that meshed the everyday drama of a soap with the other worldly. Another great video as usual. I am excited what he brings in his return, but I do not expect a return to the 00s, but a new age with his voice in the roles and actions and comedy.
I never felt like the companions casually leaving in the original series very natural at all. If something as wonderful and impossible as this falls into your lap, why would you give it up after a few rides like an amusement park? You no longer have a need for food, money, or housing, so why wouldn't you make it your life?
To be fair to companions not wanting to leave the TARDIS: if you already are the kind of person that is perfectly fine with very dangerously travelling through time and space, and you can put up with the lunatic who owns the ship, why would you ever leave?
The very first companions from Earth only ever wanted to go home, but the TARDIS wasn't working and they couldn't get back to 1960s Earth for two seasons. At the end of the second season they found a different working time machine and went back home in that. This was, imo, one of the strongest companion runs in the shows history, and one that ended satisfactorily and on the companions terms.
@@thegreentimtam You're talking about Barbara and Ian, right? I do suppose it would be different for involuntary Companions that the Doctor has basically kidnapped against their will.
@@Carabas72 Yes, Barbara and Ian. But theu don't need to neccessarily be "kidnapped". They could have enough of it. Or maybe originally think it was a good idea, and then change their mind. Could become homesick. Something could happen at home that makes them want to move back there. There are many possibilities.
I think bad wolf was honestly my favorite series arc in the entirety of new who, like hey there's these two words that are following us around that's really weird. And in the end there's a time God reason for it
The RTD era is kinda too campy sometimes, the Moffat era is kinda too horny and the Chibnall era is kinda cringe. I think the former two are intentional features.
As long as Cassandra never returns, there’s no farting slitheen and he NEVER allows a kid to write an episode in a competition again (I’m scarred by that absorbaloff thing) then his showrunning could be close to perfection again
@@Wrightbrain The Slitheen were also put to good use in The Sarah Jane Adventures in my opinion. One alien I Don't want to see the return of is the Adipose.
@@fish-fingers_and_custard7685 I personally find them grotesque in their concept (and not cute as the show tries to frame them as). It's especially frustrating since anything not related to the Adipose in Partners in Crime is actually solid, but the Adipose ruin it for me. I usually skip to The Fires of Pompei whenever I rewatch Season 4 of DW.
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![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
I'll defend the domestic life of the companions. Yes, it's annoying that it keeps bringing us back to Earth, BUT realistically speaking most people do have others they are connected with. If I were traveling with the Doctor, I'd of course want to come back from time to time to visit my friends and family. It's only human. Now do every one of these excursions need to result in a life-threatening grand adventure? Of course not, and that's probably where my issue with it lies - the companions should be able to visit their families without having to fight whatever. But having people they care about gives them humanity and dimension. If they don't have anyone, then that is an altogether different type of character, possibly a "loner" or some sense of tragedy in their past. (I'd say Graham in the most recent seasons does this well, going with Whitaker's Doctor because he has nothing left at home - and I love that he's a "loner" who is NOT broody and edgy - though of course even he has Ryan.)
TL;DR: What does Rose's mum add to the story? It shows she has something to lose, something she's giving up, and people who care about her. It gives them both a shared humanity.
While I enjoy the domestic life I feel like it wasn't really implimented well until Amy.
@@eveescastle5866 I'd go a step further and say that it was really ONLY implemented well with Amy.
@@TheWesterlyWarlock Yeah, I'll give you that. Clara was a cluster fuck that was trying too much, Bill was alright but had some of weirdest domestic life episodes, the tree person anyone?
That said I didn't hate the dynamic Chibnall gave us but I do think it was a bit much at times and became a tad convoluted and even then I only really liked Yazz.
But yeah, Amy is easily the best case scenario and everything else either falls flat or is a complete dumpster fire.
I would love to see a companion who is a loner and a runaway in some way to be honest, if they are going to cut away the home life like that anyway. Somebody who leaves a toxic family/relationship, or whose been tossed out of their home, or who is a delinquent/criminal, runaway bride/groom etc.
And for companions who have a relationships to their family (or who have friends), it should be easy to have scenes with them talking to their folks on the phone or visiting briefly, without having to make entire episodes which revolve around the family being kidnapped or whatever. The scenes could just inform us about the character's life outside the tardis in ways which are important to understanding their outlook/issues in the given episode. And then, having seen one scene where they visit/talk to their folks, the implication will be that they do this semi-regularly off-screen, with maybe a reference to doing so here and there.
@@oftinuvielskin9020 In the classic show we literally had Companions enter the TARDIS by being a stowaway! Or being...well...kidnapped into it. Or running away from a war on their home planet. Or...
Of course he wasn’t perfect, and it’s important we recognise that going into his second run. A lot of people have reacted to the news as if he was perfect and he’s going to be some kind of saviour to the show, but we can’t get ahead of ourselves.
There will be things about the new series that we don’t like, and that’s okay - nothing is perfect. I do think he will bring some consistency back to the show though, and we’re guaranteed a solid run.
I’ve watched Years and Years and It’s a Sin and loved them both, and you can see how Russell has evolved as a writer.
I’ve heard a lot of people say they think he’ll make the show darker, but I think he sees the importance of appealing to children and he’ll make the show more fun again, it probably won’t take itself too seriously. I would prefer a darker take on the doctor but that isn’t going to bring in the families and casual viewers or help it regain the Christmas spot which is more important long term. I just hope it’s not too similar to his first stint, and I think his writing of characters and relationships has improved over time, which he will bring to DW.
I think if he wants to make a dark doctor who he can always make new spin-offs, like he did torchwood. And now that he has more experience, he could do an even better job with it and create a new show with exactly what he wants.
He could bring back Unit and give them a dark spin-off, that would be interesting. Or even a series about the Master, then he could go really dark...
Well people have reacted as if he will save the show is because his first run of the show was great and he is a good writer. People really disliked the Chibs era and a lot of us are happy that we can get good Doctor Who content again. I would of been fine if Moffett returned but RTD returning is much better.
Honestly I hope he knows that he started these trends, and he smart enough to look at it from a new perspective and tweak them.... I really think he is a chance to more ore less reboot the show again for the better.
Now that you talked about it I realized how strange it is that with RTD the tardis doesn't feel like the companions' home, yet they just cannot ever imagine leaving.
I don't think that is strange at all.
Yeah, it feel more a home in the Moffat era
Yes, the 11th Doctor's TARDIS was kind of a nice hangout, whereas with 9 and 10, it was just a way to get from one place to another. I loved the 12th Doctor's TARDIS the most, and that had a hangout vibe to it to.
I always wanted to see more of it, like kitchen and library and whatever else. It's meant to feel huge, but when we only see the control room and occasionally some anonymous hallways it doesn't really. And it can't really feel like a home when it's got none of the recognizable parts which make a home livable.
@@jvblhc
Yes, it felt very empty. I get they were trying to make the TARDIS seem alive by emulating coral but it made the whole place seem rather impersonal.
Yeah, I’ve been arguing since Moffat’s tenure that a lotta people were viewing Davies’ tenure through “Rose [no pun intended, but apt] Coloured Glasses”.
Personally? I’d be happier if Davies *and* Moffat were brought in as co-producers. I think they’d each counter the other’s more annoying habits (that is, Davies’ habit of drifting into daft camp, and Moffat’s habit of disappearing into circuitous knots.)
I would SO be down for that. If nothing else, just as an experiment to see how it works out.
Yep, RTD era Moffat stories were the strongest examples of nu-Who because they counterbalanced each other.
I 100% agree with this. They really do play off each other's strengths and shore up each other's weaknesses.
I’ve been saying for ages that a duo showrunner would be a great idea. Get one person who specialises in unique ideas, interesting plots and creates the blueprints of characters. Then another person who specialises in writing sci fi, drama, action, horror etc.
Davies also had the annoying habit of the story being saved by pressing some magic button. Sometimes he was also a bit repetitive. Moffat had the bad habit of not always resolving the plot effectively and just leaving us scratching our heads. He also had a tendency to overuse things a lot weeping angels cough cough 😷. He also retconned some of the stuff he made himself. But I’d love to see them together because they are both phenomenal writers they just need someone to help them with their errors.
I’ll admit I love Jodie’s era but I think if Chibnal had Moffat and Davies writing episodes that people claim are bad then they may have turned out better. Xx
I actually feel exactly the opposite about the mystery box thing - stuff like Bad Wolf and Saxon were so unobtrusive that I didn't mind them at all, but under Moffat the season arcs changed from occasional mentions to really obnoxious distractions. I think it worked in Series 5 but never really did after that.
I agree. I feel like I can pick up almost any episode of Davies' run and just watch it. With Moffat half the episodes spend a lot of their time advancing arc plot stuff and it's offputting if I'm not invested in the arc plot.
Yeah, I’m with you.
I rarely picked up on any of Russel's mystery box things until the very end of the stories, when I slap my palm on my head and say "Oh, THAT's what it was!". I love a lot of Moffat's stuff, but that guy can just bang things over your head again and again until you want the pain to stop and the fun stories to continue. Moffat's time with Capaldi was much more to my liking.
I agree. Most people who watched the show under RTD were casual viewers. Unobtrusive but thematically building is the way to go. Moffat has talked about experimenting with the degree of overall arc that fit, and I think it’s telling he dialled it way down in his later series.
Completely agree. I thought those were both cool story arcs too.
I was worried when clicking on the video that you were gonna open my eyes to some glaring issues from his run that I'd overlooked, but actually a lot of the points you raised were things I either really liked about his era or things that didn't bother me too much. I appreciate that they're not to everyone's tastes, but they definitely appeal to mine :)
Tbf, no era of the show has ever been perfect, but for my mind RTD was the most consistent in terms of quality (Love and Monsters aside). Moffat may have reached higher highs but he also sunk to much lower lows and as for Chibbers, I think he's a good writer but not really suited to the job of running a show like Doctor Who. I feel like RTD's return will be a return to relatively consistent quality sci-fi drama that keeps people coming back for more and only occasionally tries to blow people's minds but always succeeds when it does
Moffat in my humble opinion had some of the best individual stories but in terms of overarching stories they didn't really pan out.
I almost quit watching towards the end of Capaldi's run because it was beginning to feel a bit forced and you could tell he wasn't enjoying it anymore.
Chibnall while he has his strengths Doctor Who was out of his depth and you could tell. He was amazing on Broadchurch but the two shows are vastly different in scope. While I enjoyed his run he definitely made some questionable choices and lost favor with a lot of the fanbase. It's a shame things have to end this way but I'm looking forward to RTD returning because while he wasn't perfect he really understood what Doctor Who was at its core and had a vision like no other. I'm excited to see where he takes the show.
Well, the thing with RTD is that even love and monsters was well written. It was terribly EXECUTED, but it’s a story about how aliens affect the ordinary and the pain of those left behind.
I agree on your differences between RTD and Moffat. I've previously described them like a signal on an oscilloscope. RTD is a consistent, steady sound wave of troughs and peaks, whereas Moffat is more like a harsher series of jaggies, with higher peaks but also lower troughs. Chibnall is....well....I can't say a flatline but it's only occasional blips in the really positive.
I do prefer Moffat to RTD but it's close, it's just that Moffat's style appealed to me more. I also take into consideration that many of my favourite RTD era episodes (certainly not all) were written by Moffat.
I'm definitely looking forward to RTD coming back and I think he can bring something new (and much needed) but I also have my expectations in check. He isn't the second coming, as some people think, but he does understand the show and the Doctor. Which is something Chibnall never really did, at least not yet.
I never thought RTD's era was perfect (at least I haven't since I started actually paying attention), but I think it did very well in the ways that matters.
Yeah, many say the same about Saban with the Power Rangers....
Those track closely with my own criticisms. The romance and family drama weren't what I was looking for on Who, but ultimately what bothered me more than building up to big "event" finales which were terrible. I enjoyed them, but in a trashy way despite themselves. I remember seeing RTD explain this (probably on Confidential) how he wanted to give everybody some gushing emotional climax, and everything else was kind of secondary. The sloppiness of the finales made the peppering of clues throughout the series even more tedious.
Then again, I am somebody who thinks the solo Marvel movies (and television) were all far more interesting and eventful than the Avengers for similar reasons, so YMMV. "Nevermind the dynamics, motivations, and decisions we've explored - don't you wonder why purple Space Grimace is here?" "Um, no, not especially..."
Well these are all going to be YMMV eventually.
The thing is, I feel that the soap opera stuff was exactly where mid-noughties British television audiences were. I don't believe a hardcore sci-fi show would have got off the ground to nearly the same extent.
Avengers did events way better
Great video. I agree with all your points, especially the point about overblown season finales under RTF’s first run. I would add to that his tendency towards deus ex machina finale resolutions, although Moffit certainly did that too. But I would take issue with the statement that classic series companions’ exits weren’t generally poignant or traumatic (I know you haven’t seen all of the classic series yet). Although they botched a few of them in the early years, often due to actors’ contract issues (Vicki, Dodo, Ben and Polly), several of them were played up extremely poignantly (Barbara and Ian, Jo’s tearful goodbye, Sara Jane’s abrupt banishing). And some were quite traumatic (Victoria and Tegan becoming overwhelmed by monsters and deaths, Zoe and Jamie’s memory wipes, and of course various deaths of companions. I think the main difference in the older stories is these things were usually handled more as an afterthought or epilogue, rather than taking up a large portion of the story time as in the modern show.
The old show also did this sort of "out of sight, out of mind" thing. Old school companions were rarely mentioned once they left, so even if they left under less than ideal circumstances, it wasn't dwelt on like it is in Nu Who. And I'm not saying one's better than the other, just that it's different.
The mention of Wilf makes this video perfect for me. Bernard Cribbins was the perfect anchor to the 10th doctor’s finale
I agree with most of your thoughts, but I must say I loved the character of Donna's mother. She did a great job in Turn left. And with a mother like that, one gets why Donna is like she is.
I felt the same way about Martha's mother. Yes, she was annoying, but in the end, we realize she was just worried about her daughter. And just a little look between her and The Doctor at the end of Last of the Time Lords showed that they both have made their peace with each other.
Side characters are there to push their primary counterparts. Sylvia was great.
I don’t think anyone would argue his first run WAS perfect. I’ve certainly never seen anyone make that argument anyway.
I loved that first season. It's in my top five. Granted, some of it was very silly, and other parts were dated, but the chemistry between Chris and Billie was superb, and most of the stories were excellent. Overall, it was a very good season. Very re-watchable, which I can personally attest to!
@@jvblhc Well it is well over a decade old so of course it's going to be dated. Like the game show stuff is pretty dated. And the rather obvious New Labour caricatures.
Though Saxon somehow doesn't feel too dated considering... well, he did another Nestene story.
Interesting analysis of the companions' departures. During RTD's era, the running theme seemed to be 'Companion from Earth leads humdrum life, meets the Doctor, discovers the wonders of the universe and along with it, their potential. By contrast, Moffat's and Chibnall's eras (at least, with Amy and Rory, and Ryan and Graham) have been more: 'Companion from Earth meets the Doctor, explores the universe, and comes to appreciate the wonders of everyday life back on Earth'.
It's funny I used to have a pretty low opinion of the RTD era when I started out. It was only when I revisited that era properly I fell in love with it. But even now I can say there were some pretty bad flaws which I hope Russel has grown beyond and will avoid come his second go around.
The man indisputably know how to write his Who but like any writer he's had his share of muck ups. People idolising his era as one without fault are playing a dangerous game of pedestals.
The Bad Wolf mystery box was probably the most shoehorned, but I always felt RTD got better with them as his series progressed, crescendoing with the planets disappearing in S4. Also the four knocks twist was an absolute gut punch.
What matters wasn't that he was perfect, it was that he actually tried.
The thing about RTD that I will always love is the dialogue/dress of the companions feels like how people from those back grounds talked in those eras.
This is a hot take? I mean, he’s my favorite show runner so far, but not at all perfect…. *farts in Sletheen*
Right now it feels like the hottest of takes because of the damn hype machine.
@@CouncilofGeeks With these farts it could get hotter.
*lights match*
@@CouncilofGeeks ... Can you blame us tho? When was the last time we had anything to be excited about?
Eh, I can see why RTD went with the Slitheen, all the worthiness of Dickens and wanting to ground the show for the kids next week.
@@ConnorKent428 i love the Sleetheen
personally, i absolutely love when we see companion's domestic life! i love seeing their families every now and again; it makes them feel real and human. and when they come back and have adventures in modern day earth it makes it feel relatable and interactive, to an extent.
Mystery box-bug or feature? If I had to choose between RTD's mystery box and Moffat's tanged spaghetti arcsi, I'd go mystery box every time.
I definitely agree about the companion departures. in the whole of classic Who we got just ONE companion who completely lost it after one of Who's most brutal ever episodes. And it left the doctor and the audience gobsmacked. We got three deaths and they were all real, final, one-way deaths, though to be fair it was Moffat who was the revolving door death specialist. All the "torn apart" departures were like "hey doc I've met this guy/found my calling, see ya" and only Susan's earned a speech, so at least RTD spared us that.
Off topic but I have a shirt just like that except like a little off the shoulder I love yours!! Looks so cute 🥰 also on topic I realized RTD was my fave Era so I'm trying to be realistic but at the same time I am optimistic, I don't hope for the same thing as RTD's first run, I'm actually hoping to see what new ideas he'll have after all this time! I'm cautiously pumped 😄
My God. I had completely forgotten the end of Series 3 and The Doctor coming back the way they did. Looking back it feels so... bad
I'm way more excited about RTD's return than I ever was during his first run because of his writing after Doctor Who - so many excellent shows have come out in the last decade that he's been involved in, including A Very English Scandal, It's A Sin and the underrated Years & Years. I agree with most of your commentary on his Doctor Who years, though I personally love the domesticity aspect.
It will be interesting to see what you mean by this. Perhaps it is a caution to high expectations. I feel this is always a prudent mood regardless of circumstances. Sometimes it does feel like people put RTD on some kind of pedestal. I don’t hear a lot about his faults, especially In the inevitable comparisons between him and Moffat. I will catch this on the replay. It sounds like an important discussion.
I'm not looking for high expectations. I'm just looking for a Doctor Who series where halfway through an episode, I start wonder if there is something better on another channel.
I definitely agree with some parts: I think the campiness in series 1 definitely needed turning down, and Doctor/companion relationships don't work for me at all (if nothing else he is essentially an immortal, genius alien with the ability to change bodies, would he pursue relationships with 20 something year old women from Earth, pretty much exclusively?). But, I must say I'm a massive fan of the domestic home life stuff, it really helped round out the characters back story and personality for me, informing the audience for why they are the way they are. With Rose, Martha and Donna I feel you can take any of their actions and explain it by looking at their relationships with family or friends. IDK, I just really like the home life aspect
Damm, now I want the Doctor to go full Rick and decide to go intercourse with a planet or some celestial alien.
Seriously tho, I think that the Doctor would see human romance as a novelty rather than anything meaningful, and *maybe* some good stories could come out with a human and a Timelord having relationship issues that wouldn't happen if they were just two humans. But because ot the short time the Doctor spend with his companions on RTD era, the interesting aspects about a interspecies relationship could never show up, giving room only to the generic aspect that didn't quite fit to Doctor Who for some people. In the end, the only factor that got in the show about the companions relationship was the danger of traveling with the Doctor, but this danger would still be the same if the Doctor was just an human scientist, so its kinda redundant to the issue.
I don't think this is a hot take at all. You'd have to be a gloriously deluded rosey-eyed nostalgia junkie to actually think it was "perfect".
I think people do know this intellectually, but emotionally? I hardly ever hear about RTD’s faults. It somehow sacrilegious to talk about them.
@@vanessalore9942 During my teenage years I was the only one in my friendship group who liked (or at least appreciated) what Moffat was doing with the show, and I cannot begin to describe how frustrating it was to hear Moffat get treated like the antichrist while Davies was put on a pedestal by the rest of my friends, in spite of his writing being just as flawed as Moffat's, just in different ways
@@vanessalore9942 I mean, it's Internet. The two get confused at an astonishing frequency.
@@christianwise637 I always liked Moffat more than Davies anyway. Sometimes he miscalculated like giving River Song the ability to regenerate despite both of her parents being human (yes, she was conceived in the Time Vortex but she was still about 90% human) or forgetting that the Great Intelligence is supposed to be above something as petty as revenge but for the most part, I really liked Moffat's writing decisions. You could tell that he loved Doctor Who and a fan is always going to put more effort and heart into their work.
Yep The magic formula is Moff+Davies...And people moaned about Gatiss's episodes, but I'd totally have him around to help with the mood lighting. His stories were always filled with beautiful little touches particularly in set design and historical references: I'd totally have him as a script and set advisor.
To me, RTD's biggest sin was what he did to the character of Martha. She started out in the first episode as this strong, intelligent character and there was a lot of potential to have a companion like that, but instead he almost immediately had her start mooning after the Doctor, which completely undermined the character. Then, even though he did have her make the decision that it was bad for her and decide to leave, but he turns around and romantically pairs her up with Mickey, for some reason that makes no sense within the context of anything we saw in the show.
And as you mentioned, I really didn't like the constant return to present day Earth. Too many episodes were/are set there, in my opinion. The show is supposed to be about adventures in time and space, so there are endless options that aren't present day Earth. I also REALLY want to see a companion that isn't from present day Earth, but I'm starting to think it's never going to happen.
RTD was not perfect, but I will always love his series above Moffat's and definitely above Chibnall's. I look forward to see what he does when he takes over as show runner. I also have no problem about his sprinkling of Bad Wolf or Torchwood or Saxon in the episodes. Unlike Moffat (and I like Moffat), RTD just dropped things in there without caring whether you get it or not. Who really members anything about the bees disappearing, until the final episode? I know I didn't. As opposed to Moffat, who seemed to need to bash fans over the head with "Silence Will Fall! The Pandorica Will Open" and all that Moffat-y stuff again and again. I also love the family feel, with Jackie, Martha's family, Wilf and Donna's Mom. There was more at stake when the families were involved. Moffat left all that stuff on the floor. I think we saw Rory and Amy's family in The Big Bang, and then they were gone forever. I was happy to see Chibnall create Brian Williams, a guy who would have fit right in with the RTD years. But by the time we got the chance to love him, Rory and Amy were gone, and therefore, so was Brian.
Maybe because Amy and Rory are adults, and this is Doctor Who and not a soap opera melodrama about angry mothers.
It really is a contrast between the three writers, I think. And I love all of them. To me, RTD is very much an emotional writer. He loves doing the emotional scene that's going to make the characters relatable and/or bring the audience to their knees in tears. And it works - most of them. Whereas Moffat embraced more of the swashbuckler side of the Doctor - the adventurer, the explorer! Chibnall is trying to be both, inside the Doctor Who universe, but hasn't quite worked out how to do that - that's why his era feels so splintered and all over the place. He's a great dramatic writer (Broadchurch - Hello!) that I'm not sure belongs in the sci-fi genre.
@@mayotango1317 no but there are supposed to be actual characters in it and not just action figure potential
@@redhippopotamus9144 The classic Series companions are more superior that the soap operaish RTD companions.
One of the few problems I had with the critiques of the RTD era was "The Domestics." Most people are going to have something tying them back to their homes. If I got on the TARDIS, and if most people got on the TARDIS, they'd want to come back to see their families and friends. Homesickness is a thing that most people feel. Also, people can feel more connection to a story if it is set on Earth, so that is a good reason to come back to our home planet, but I do agree that the show needs to shake this up a bit. I particularly liked your mentioning of having companions from different times are planets, which NEEDS to happen. If we got I companion like that, I would be incredibly disappointed if they didn't go back to their home. Setting up someones roots is a very important thing to do, and it rounds out the character more.
16:40 "daleks and cybermen just goin' at it" i love that sentence lol
I’m glad you mentioned the finales. That in hindsight was always my issue of “power creep” with the finales, despite how much I do love them individually. Whole Moffat had his problems, and some power creep too too (though how much of that is because of the standard set by RTD?) it never felt the same as RTD’s stuff and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. For all the faults, and the fact I’ve not seen the first finale of Jo’s Doctor, I think this is one area Chris successfully broke from.
I had my problems with RTD, especially right at the end where everybody became The Masters. I remember thinking "Seriously, this is how you want to finish the Tenth Doctor's run?" But overall, I enjoyed his era more than Moffat's (and, as usual, I must say I enjoyed most of Moffat's years) and definitely more than Chibnall's era.
Series 2 is probably the quintessential showcase for both the biggest strengths and the biggest weaknesses of RTD's original run. The highs of the series were very high, the lows were EXTREMELY low, and the middles were forgettable.
Yes. But for me, the high points and good stories cancelled out several other bad or blah stories. I can live with Fear Her and several other stories as long as I get School Reunion, The Girl in the Fireplace, Army of Ghosts, etc.
Nothing is perfect. And Doctor Who was definitely never perfect. I enjoyed RTD's run the first time around (although the Moffat-Era was more my cup of tea). I'm excited to see what RTD brings to the table after spending some time away :)
Is this really a hot take? I'm a very casual Doctor Who fan and all seasons have had their ups and downs, I thought that was most people's opinions.
@Tom Meehan I just find it tiring when people bash Moffat for doing the same or similar things RTD did. I’m guilty of nostalgia and have no problem with it. I wish they’d stop putting down my preferences while listing theirs up on some kind of shrine. Having said all that, I have friends who can’t stand Moffat and we get along fine. We live and let live and bond over Classic Who.
I must be crazy for absolutely loving mystery boxes like saxon and bad wolf, it gets me giddy
Most of what you didn't like is what I love in his era ^^ I really love the feeling of realism with the companion's families, it just speak to me a lot, it did as a kid and it still does now. I guess his self indulgence and mine are similar
I agree. The characters in these families are often not the best but it really helps with the realism and the attachment of the companions to Earth. The Doctor never really wants to land because his life is completely devoted to space but I think it's good that the companions contrast with him in this way
Rooting the show in Earth was a very deliberate choice of Davies. He said from the off that if Earth isn’t threatened he doesn’t care.
I remember him saying that and I completely disagreed at the time. Some of the best classic stories don't even take place on Earth... or threaten anything but the lives of the characters you care about (see Caves of Androzani). I think Davies wrote such strong characters, he could have easily made us care about his stories without threatening the entire Earth every other week.
@@joelakat I agree - and to be fair I think RTD became less of a purist about this as time went on. Earth isn't even indirectly involved in several stories from his later seasons. I imagine Earth will be in dire danger in all his finales even in his second run, though...
I think I disagree with most of these things here, but that just speaks to our different taste in media.
I always loved an extra layer of cheese and camp in my science fiction, so I don’t mind that early-installment camp.
The “mystery boxes” as you referred to them I think are at least self-contained enough to not be too obtrusive.
I don’t mind seeing the companions’ home life and what they leave behind, but I do agree that does take us to earth a bit too much and I’d love to see more companions who aren’t from modern day earth.
And as for the indulgence, a lot of it worked for me. The Stolen Earth/ Journey’s End being the ultimate finale is cool with everyone coming back for one epic romp (though the ending leaves a lot to be desired.) Seeing Daleks fight Cybermen? Awesome. Wish it wasn’t so one sided and it’s a matchup I think could work again. The doctor being Jesus? Ehhh not as big on that.
Great video, well explained, I’m glad I’ve finally been checking out your stuff. Your perspective is fresh and I like hearing your thoughts.
I feel like RTDs return to modern day earth bothered me the most becusee it was almost always in some Boeing London suburbs, or Cardiff and the two often blended together because for filming, the latter usually stood in for the former!
What I have appreciated about the Chibnall era is filming on locations that aren't Cardiff backstreets. Nothing wrong with Cardiff, but it isn't that big a city, so after a while all the location shooting kind of started to look the same.
I disagree about the domestics. For me, knowing how Donna's mother treated her was the key to understanding her bristling defensiveness that made her so different from the other companions. Not a fan of Martha's family, they just weren't interesting or unexpected. Just kind of standard moderate dysfunction. A plot point to drive Martha.
I believe that to have well-rounded modern companions you have to deal with the hole left behind from all their travelling, in a real, nuanced way. But like everything else, it doesn't have to be the standard close knit family, (even a non-standard close knit family, like Rose and her mom) and that's where all the showrunners so far have gravitated towards. I like that there are consequences to the Companions' travelling. That there are real people left behind who miss them, and are affected by it, and that should always be part of the show going forward. They just need to stretch themselves about who and how.
I quite liked how RTD used the mystery box format because he didnt hold up the story for too long on the namedrops whereas moffat..
The first time I knew RTD’s name was Doctor Who, by that time my mom bought a new TV, which we were able to watch a lot of famous English TV shows in a free channel, I watched Doctor Who, I still remember the first episode was so usually from most Sci-fi television I’ve watched, the plastic creature, and they weirdly chasing a girl in a mall, and a man, appeared from nowhere to ask Rose to go with him. I thought, yes, I could accept that(now recalling that the time was later 2014 or early 2015 something, my preference for television was largely confined by the robotic patterns horribly contributed to my country). Jackie, Rose’s mother, that impression of her temporary crushing of Doctor,that’s hilarious. That episode Doctor helped Rose go back to the time before her father’s death, and that episode of trapped ghosts trying to persuade a young girl to help them cross the boundaries of worlds, and the freaking children of “where is my mommy”, I wouldn’t say I completely loved it because of my poor taste, but I’d love to watch the whole series(also my lasting favorite television character Sheldon from TBBT loooooves watch Doctor Who, I know he means Classic DW)The kiss in the last episode season 1, yeah, that kiss was really hooked your expectation of what would happen between them. Then the season 2, maybe someone was like me that wasn’t expecting 10 is quite different from 9?? I mean, 9 is like a man you would like to date secretly, he would sometimes buy you present, he is mature, maybe sometime he would give you money or something like that, 10 is like when you see him you would say to him”Dude let’s go out”. The whole season 2 was like watching two people falling in love, he’s trying to show much of the good things as he could to her. Clever writers, didn’t put the cause of Doctor and Rose’s separation on human, instead cybermen caused it, because of this I didn’t like cybermen🙃, Dudu, that was too far! How can you split two people because of evil robots try to destroy the worlds? Yeah, I was naive. Ok, season 3, you could tell by watching Doctor’s sad, lonely face that he’s missing Rose in every episode… it’s not Martha’s fault, it’s he’s so sad. I was sad either, why the hell they change a main character in every fucking season, it’s like you just slowly getting comfortable with her/him, then her/him was gone, again and again. Yeah… back to my subject of RTD,in the last scene of Doctor and Rose, he said “I burned a super nova to see you again,” I can’t remember the whole sentence sorry, but Christ, this line was the most romantic sentences I’ve ever heard from television series by that time(I was a huge television show fan). You started to wonder what kind of writers could write things like that💣. (Although I always wondered that, is it too environmentally unfriendly that Doctor burned a super nova, you know, he’s Doctor..) However, the show is very educational, in a good sense. The second time I paid attention to RTD’s name because of Queer as Folk, I can’t say how that show changed my life, because I don’t have any fucking idea. Someday I accidentally discovered that British version of QAF and the first four seasons of Doctor Who is written by a same man, I still remember that day, because my fondness for both shows, I thought, wow, his mind is stunning. I thought he must be quite old, like that 70 years old Shakespeare way of old. But he’s not, I followed him on Instagram, he’s much younger than I previously thought. Quite respect of him, those shows he wrote, Cucumbers, A Very British Scandal, Years and Years, if somebody happened to be born in a country where the freedom of expression is deeply restricted, those tv shows are really educational. Yeah, just these, he’s a nice guy, he liked my comment once. These days I’m watching Classic Doctor Who, now I can understand why Sheldon loves that. I couldn’t watch it before because I could find nowhere to watch the show in my country at least in my poor knowledge, thanks to my sister now I watch that everyday in my iPad. I worried about what if the new episodes of Doctor Who weren’t good enough either. But who the hell I am? If I wasn’t into the new episodes, somebody else would, I’m not the only fucking audience, I dropped most episodes of first season of 13, I don’t know, maybe I would like her later?? I don’t mind the new seasons of Doctor Who would be written by RTD or Moffat, can I like both of their styles too? Though I quite interested of RTD’s new work. Yeah.. just these, I like the new episode of DW, I watched last night, I know it wasn’t written by RTD.
I love the big finales, they were always built up to with the mystery boxes and they were always really fun.
100% agree on your take on his finales. I hope he's learned how to end a season a bit better than he did before.
11:21 - 14:54 I personally didn't mind the domestics as I think it would only be realistic for companions to have someone attached to them back in their time but it felt a bit repetitive. Mix it up a little, like have their attachments be fellow students while their parents live across the country, have it be their workplace with older companions who already had a job (it wasn't RTD anymore but they could've taken the plot from The Power of Three and make it into a season arc where the companions struggle with where they belong - like Rory dealing with the work relationships he has with his co-workers - and eventually decide that their Earth life and work is more important to them, maybe even with the added fact that having travelled in time gave them a new incentive - for instance, Rory could've learned about interesting new healing methods (past and future) that he now applies to his patients).
Or, if it had to be a family connection, weave that into the plot: have the companion struggle with their parents only to travel back in time several times to find out the history of their family which changes the way they see their parents. Or it could lead them to finally stand up to their parents having learned to do that due to travelling with the Doctor.
Thank you for saying this stuff. There's been too much blind praise for RTD completely overlooking his shortcomings as a writer and show runner. It's not that he wasn't good at what he did. To me, the difference between his vision (and by extension all that's come since) and the classic series is a bit like when professional wrestling morphed into sports entertainment. It's bigger, it's flashier, it's hipper and so on, but it's missing a lot of what made the older version great.
I think there were some less successful aspects of RTD's time on the series, I agree the story arcs were a bit bolted on but were a novelty for Doctor Who (apart from The Key to Time and The Trial of a TimeLord maybe). The fact that Doctor Who didn't have a USA writers' room set up and is still screened out of production order probably made a meaningful arc a bit difficult and there weren't enough episodes to have arc srories alternating with non arc stories like The X-Files did. The things that I see as successful involved Dr Who becoming an "Event" or what they'd call in the 60s a "craze". The toys were awesome and hearing kids out shopping with their parents and excitedly talking about how they could kill a Dalek was fantastic fun. I think the BBC are hoping he will bring the child audience back to the series. I also loved travelling to Palm Springs and over hearing a guy in a Mexican Restaurant raving about the show to his partner. BTW Earth/human being stories are great. They help emphasise Dr Who as time travel. If you don't have humans in the past, present and future the show might as well be Star Trek. The night shooting was great, really atmospheric, and Pertwee on Earth rocked so... RTD is a clever writer, I look forward to seeing what he does back on the show. I was middle aged when Rose was screened so I honestly didn't mind aspects that weren't to my taste. Good! Let the kids have their show back!
I don't think Series 2's Torchwood was a mystery box because we knew what Torchwood was by episode 2 (if I remember correctly)
Most of what you say are problems are the reason I love RTD Doctor Who tbh (the rest aren't deal breakers for me).
Maybe due to his background in children's television his run leaned more child friendly and I loved that. The best time I had watching Doctor Who was with my nephew.
Did you also watch The Sarah Jane Adventures?
I'm of a mind to be cautiously optimistic, but I am of the same as you, I'd prefer we see a new approach. I also want a companion from somewhere else! I also definitely had problems with RTD's run, the same as any other show runner, so it's not such a super hot take.
I excited for the return of Doctor Who, one of my favourite things about it is your reviews. I hope its good, but even on bad episodes your reviews tend to provide mirth and enlightenment.
I partly watch your stuff because of your breakdowns, as someone who plans to try my hand at fiction one day, your insights are informative.
But what hooks me is your love and passion for the Doctor (your reviews on Gotham were excellent too, i very much enjoyed that :) )
9 and 10's relationship with rose is so creepy she's 19. I'm kinda shocked this almost never comes up.
She brings it up to her Dad in Father's Day, *their the age difference and she not tell she is his daughter yet* and 9 and 10 are old men.
Agree with everything here - the one other thing, and I’m pretty positive I’ve mentioned this in a comment before, I’ve noticed when one looks at Doctor Who and Torchwood together, is that his wlw characters seem to consist entirely of “evil alien masquerading as a woman who needs to die” with the sometimes added zest of “whomst is preying on a series regular whose attraction(?) to women is never brought up again outside of this one specific episode”
I totally agree with all of your points. I posted many of them on your video where you announced his return.
Overall, I think I'd rather he had been the showrunner for the new QAF, where I think he did a much better job than he did on DW. I'd have loved to see what MJS would've have done with it, but I guess he's going to be busy with the B5 reboot. Another one that I think could bring a new vision in is Ronald D. Moore, who could've made it feel more like it was happening the real world - the way he did with reimagining Battlestar Galactica so that it didn't seem cheesy.
One thing I will say about this is that I personally like the shift in the Modern series to give us more complicated endings for the companions. Mainly because I feel it makes sense. The Doctor takes human beings out of their time on all these crazy adventures where they have near-death experiences on a regular basis, and I feel it's only natural to show in the series how that impacts them. I certainly wouldn't be the kind of person who could handle that sort of life forever, but I can imagine that it would change me and probably traumatize me. I can also guess that it might be tough to reintegrate back into a normal existence afterward, and I like that the RTD era explored that potentially tragic side of being a human traveling alongside the Doctor.
Now, I can definitely understand and even get behind this video's criticisms about the romanticizing of the Doctor, but at the same time I also think there was something intrinsically human about RTD's era that I really liked, and that went beyond pretty much anything I've watched from the Classic era. The companions felt like real people with their own flaws and insecurities and dysfunctional family dynamics. They weren't just there to adventure and have a grand old time and then leave --- but to learn about themselves and the universe, coming away permanently changed, and ultimately teach the Doctor a thing or two/impact him in some way. The main point of RTD's era, I think, was that the Doctor at the end of the day was no better than anyone else. And in the wake of the Time War, the things that set him apart from humanity were viewed as simultaneously wonderful and tragic.
I love "the mystery box" format.
I've always preferred Steven Moffat over Russell T Davies.
Me too
Ditto
Me 4
RTD based Series 1 on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. With the story arc and the "Big Bad" and the campiness. But - Romance depicts the feelings that occur in love relationship, courtship and secret lovers or impossible lovers. Romanticism is a philosophy of freedom that is manifested in Literature, Fine Arts, Music and painting of the 19th Century in Europe and America.
Whoever said he was perfect? Nobody's perfect...not even the Doctor. 😋
And by the way, absolutely love your hair pulled back with the braid to the side, and the way your ear studs pick up the blue in hair!!!! 💙💙💙
RTD's run was not perfect (and we mostly remember his run as good because of the Moffat episodes) but it was entertaining and, in the end, this is what matters.
I know it’s easy to look at RTD’s (first) run on Doctor Who with Rose tinted glasses, but it was a far better quality show than what we’ve got under Chibnall.
Honestly the main issue with Chibnall is not his lack of talent or vision but his fundamental misunderstanding of what made Doctor Who, Doctor Who.
And I think it boils down to this was something well out of his depth and he was figuring it out as he went and to his detriment felt like he was trying to reinvent the wheel.
He did good work on Broadchurch but that is very different to Doctor Who in scope and I don't think he ever really understood that.
It's a shame because Jodie is a lovely Actress and if she had a good showrunner could have been amazing as the doctor but a lot of it was wasted.
@@eveescastle5866 Big Finish Audio Adventure should definitely give Jodie more chances to shine as the 13th Doctor
Awesome pun btw :).
I found the biggest problem with the RTD era to be the overall approach following the first series. I think he absolutely nailed the time war backstory and the daleks with 9, but after that nothing old should have come back. The first series felt like the show was giving one last nostalgic look at the past by killing off the daleks, the time lords being dead and the cybermen also just a museum piece, all leaving the Doctor to figure out a new direction for his life in the future. You get the impression that now the show would move on to new things, but no, RTD brings back all the staple villains series after series and structures the whole show to support their return by giving the old villains the main slot in the finales and the overarching story. While he was very successful in reintroducing these villains, I find this keeps the show trapped in it's history and the audience gets the impression this is what the show is and should be like, and such expectations from the audience don't help the show shake it's baggage. It's ironic RTD chose to go this way since the time war was created to wipe the slate clean specifically so this wouldn't happen. But fans are fans and he is one, so I guess his inner fanboy won and the bold writer lost.
I really feel RTD should have moved on to new ideas after series one but instead his era solidified this false notion that Doctor Who has to bring back the same characters, format and approach each series. This really shuts the show down creatively and if there ever was a show where wild experimentation should be the norm, it's this one. I also quite dislike it when a writer turns the Doctor into an all powerful space Jesus saving worlds from evil alien forces, and RTD was guilty of this way too often. I swear if RTD brings back the daleks, the Master and the cybermen during his new tenure and makes them the focal point I'll be very disappointed. But don't get me wrong, the RTD era is still my personal favorite on TV thus far, mainly because of the grounded character writing and themes. I just feel the show could be even greater if it tapped into it's full potential.
@UCGbqXzaqzL7AzjQLWG94vqA Yes, I know, it's tradition for each Doctor to face them and I'm all for them appearing in small doses in one episode every once in a while if they are done well, I just don't want them to be the focus anymore in the main story and the finales. Otherwise they will overshadow any new villains or ideas and limit the show.
That's a good point. It didn't really rear its head too badly until after he left, but by the Moffat era I was already feeling like "oh no, not another dalek episode" and I can see how that's kind of Davies' fault for setting the trend.
This is just a silly beef. In series 2 of classic Who the Daleks were the focal point of 3 multi-episode stories. In ALL of RTD's run, they were the focal point of 4 episodes. In fact, over the first 12 series of classic Who, there was only one season that didn't have a least one Dalek-focused story which ran over multiple episodes. Likewise, the Cybermen were the focal point of 5 episodes of RTD's run, however 4 of them were 2-episode arcs that under the classic show would have been done in stories which would have likely aired over 8 to 10 episodes! Classic series 4, 5, and 6 all had 2 full Cybermen-centric stories, each taking up 8 to 10 episodes. Similarly, the Master was involved in one arc of 3 episodes of RTD's run, and one more time in the finale of the short season. Again, in the Classic era, there were several series that had lengthy Master stories spanning over multiple episodes, beginning again all the way back with Doctor #3 and playing a significant role for every incarnation of the Doctor after, particularly Doctor #4, which is arguably the go-to incarnation for what makes Doctor Who feel like Doctor Who.
In fact, Doctor #4 encountered all of these foils on a semi-regular basis and was among the most-engaged with the Time Lords as well. To ignore the significance of these recurring characters would have made the show feel a lot less like Doctor Who, especially for fans of the classic series. I think RTD was smart, and I think you're exaggerating the amount of emphasis he put on them. Then you look at new Who series 11 which everyone basically despises, and Chibnall did effectively what you are suggesting. It isn't so easy to make successful Doctor Who without including some of his most memorable foils. I personally wasn't sold on RTD's series 1 until the episode "Dalek," and I would have been rather disappointed had the Master never returned, as most of his stories are still among the most memorable classic Who stories. I think you're right in saying that Moffat relied on these tropes too much, but to blame that on Davies is basically saying he should have turned Doctor Who into a completely different Sci Fi show, because that's what it would have been without "Dalek" and several other very memorable episodes.
@@TheWesterlyWarlock Just because something was done on Classic Who doesn't mean was a good idea then, let alone that it would be a good idea now. It's also easier now than it was back then to binge a bunch of past stories in a row, which probably makes it a lot more noticeable if certain ideas are being reused a lot.
That being said, Davies did have the habit of using Daleks, Cybermen or The Master in series finale storylines that had been built up to for the whole series with the mystery box format, which inevitably makes it *feel* like a lot of emphasis was put on them in retrospect regardless how much truth there is too that feeling. Davies doing that less often could've gone a long way to making more fans' reactions to those villains' reapearances be "oh yeah, haven't seen them for a series or two, wonder what they'll do this time" or even "ooh it's one of the *big* badies this time!" instead of "(sigh), here we go again."
I personally think that as long as you still have The Doctor and his/her companions traveling through time and space, interacting with and helping different people and fighting different villains each time, it would still feel like Doctor Who with or without villains from the classic show. My policy would be to still use them once in a while, but do it very sparingly - even to the point of there sometimes being multiple series without them - so that when they do show up it feels like a bigger deal (like how "Star Trek: The Next Generation" handled the Borg or "Adventure Time" handled The Lich).
Also, the Daleks are kind of boring. They don't have to be, but they were after a while during the parts of Modern Who they I watched because they pretty much did the same thing every time. There's only so many times I want to watch villains whose evil plan seldom amounts to more than "shoot everyone in sight."
Nope, he definitely wasn’t perfect. for one thing he was great at reinventing old monsters, but a lot of his new ones weren’t very good. Tennant was fantastic but he definitely overdid the attraction to him from everyone he met; Moffat gets so much criticism for that but it started with RTD. Look, I’m SUPER hyped for his return, because he understands why The Doctor and Doctor Who are important, but I won’t pretend his run had zero flaws. It absolutely had plenty.
Id argue he had the best monsters: adipose, Vashta Nerada, the family of Blood, Sleetheen, Judoon, the flood, weeping Angles, the gasmasks, reapers and the midnight monster!
He had the best monsters!
@@blamass6708 vashta nerada, weeping angels, and gas masks were all created by Moffat. But you make some good points about some of the others.
@@adammyers7383 i know but it was still his era, Moffats monsters in his own era were not as good
It wasn't perfect but it was always fun and good to watch.
think Martha is the best companion. But she didn't need the lovestory with the Doctor, however I think Russel fixed this by giving her a Unit storyline. That being said her final scene in series 3 talking about her friend in love with a student named Sean was amazing. That story is from everyone's past and Russel hit home. Naturally, Eccleston is the best thing to come out his era.
Can I just add I maintain to this day that Moffat is a better writer than Russel
@@mrsamuelwatson12 I agree
of course it wasn't perfect and i don't think any fan of the era would argue it was. but i disagree with a lot of these arguments.
for example, the family element - sylvia is so important to donna's character and we wouldn't have turn left without her! wilf and sylvia are the angel and devil on shoulders, one is supportive and wants her to be her best self, the other holds her back and berates her constantly. sylvia explains why donna is the way she is and why she wants to get away from her home life.
the families give you the sense of what the companion is leaving behind, adding stakes and reasons to get away and also reasons to come back. and each family dynamic was different. (plus it makes sense for nine and ten, who don't have a home, to have a sort of found family and grow accustomed to a different planet like three did)
the family element was sorely missing from the moffat era, it didn't need to be as central, but even when his companions leave, die, etc we get little to no sense of how their families feel about that. there's a weird void there.
if rose died, i know how jackie would feel about that. even if we weren't shown, i could imagine. i have no idea what dave (i had to google his name) thinks of clara being gone. does he even know?
it's not necessarily about the ideas, formulas, tropes themselves but the execution. i would argue a lot of these were executed well.
The good thing about Davies was that he was a safe pair of hands, a bit like Graham Williams. He knew what worked and was confident enough to implement it. Both producers had a good ear for drama, dialogue, etc. And, come rain or sunshine, the show got made.
Nothing is perfect! And that's okay, I will say though that RTD's new era will definitely not be the same as his first - he has massively evolved as a writer since then and that is what makes me so excited to see what he will do but I do agree, that his first era is often looked at with Rose (literally) tinted glasses and I do get why but... yeah. I enjoy all 3 of the main showrunner eras so far though - I enjoyed Moffat and am enjoying Chibnall too and their eras are definitely not flawless either - again, nothing is! Not even Doctor Who, but I still love and adore this show, it's still a brilliant show despite it's many imperfections and flaws!
I don’t hear this a lot, thanks for saying it
@@ReversedPolarity oh yes I absolutely agree!
I will say this, they all did things right and wrong. I think though out of all of them Moffat made me fall out of love with the show.
I couldn't tell you when exactly it happened but I almost didn't come back because I would leave each episode feeling unsatisfied.
There were some good moments but a lot of it I just lost intetest in.
Chibnall despite all his flaws and his questionable choices gave me a newfound love for the show. None of them are perfect and after all story telling is rather subjective but there are things that work and things that don't.
08:52 FINALLY! Every time I bring up companion exits, there are people that say it's okay because they didn't die. Rose trapped on another world (original exit, the other one is separate), Donna's memories gone, Amy and Rory lived to death, Clara dead weirdly more than Rory, and Bill turned into a Cyberman and later space water. You're definitely right about Martha leaving because of the "Year of Hell." It wasn't good to stay with The Doctor at that point. If this is the one thing good about Chibnall is that he let Ryan and Graham leave of their own accord. It was time to go and they left. No trauma. Very classic.
All of these are accurate and valid criticisms, despite my fave season being eccleston's.
Personally, if i had access to the tardis I would never leave earth bc i'm a historian and space scares me lol. But i'm not a companion in the series so this is...less than relevant.
Whoever said it was? I well remember contemporary views that his stuff could get camp and melodramatic...everyone has their off days (or episodes in this case) alot of it is people expecting him to "save" a show that doesn't need saving. Like people who hate Disney Star Wars now "remembering" how great the prequels really were. Or how President's often get retroactively more popular because they're not "the current guy". That being said Davies dialogue was often poetically beautiful, as in "not just the Daleks but the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, The Nightmare Child, The Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres" from End of Time...it can't be argued that he is the architect of Who's return and ushered in the golden era of modern Who (critically and ratings wise) and he's done a ton of stuff since which will only have grown his toolbox as a writer. I'm not a hair on fire Chibnall hater, I (like RTD who is on record) love the Timeless Child and the questions and possibilities it raises and can't wait to see where RTD takes it. (Presuming it's not wrapped up in the coming series)
Can't really argue with these points but I also agree that RTD is a much improved show runner from back in 2003. So at least it shouldn't be bad
One thing that I both liked and disliked about Davies era (and Moffat) was the constant description of the Doctor as some kind of destructive godly force, a being you would not want to see angered, but this was always just described by the Doctor itself or some character putting him on a pedestal, which in retrospect to me it feels more like a DW fan than a actual in-universe character.
It was cool for a child me to hear how amazing and powerful this time-medling ancient alien is, but aside from his off-screen genocide, and his retaliation on the family of blood, he wasn't really the incoming storm, and most of the conflicts were solved with either genius setup or sci-fi technobabble, and on RTD tenure, more specifically the tenth Doctor, he was specifically against any kind of violence, and also more prone to sacrifice himself just so he can give a chance to his enemys, The Sontarian Stratagem being my example.
So, when I decided to watch "Remembrance of the Daleks", the only full classic story I watched by now, I was actually satisfied to finally see a glimpse of what the "legends" describes as a "trickster god of destruction", but it still not match with the RTD doctor's fully. To be honest, it can fit if we consider that nine and ten are like broken by their actions, being able to have caused huge destruction, but now being against to even consider causing intentional harm to anyone, and then framing he as someone that, if really on the edge, could actually be a destructive force.
I think the Doctor earned his legendary reputation. He wasn't born with it, he developed it over centuries.
@@tomnorton4277 Oh yeah, I agree with you on that. It's just the felling of the legends being less representative of the Doctor itself. To my point of view as a kid in 2010, NuWho was the only thing that existed about the series, "Rose" was the first episode ever, and his life before the Time War was just as mysterious as his real name and origins, instead of a older show. I guess that its just the consequence of how different the events that happens off-screen, lore and mithos are settled versus how the stories on screen happen, in any medium, not just Doctor Who.
Generally, tv shows, movies, games have a definited structure of how the events being watched or played should play out. But stories being told by characters, past events, tales, etc., are not limited by pacing structure, pay-offs, or conclusions. So while the Doctor can have this immense legacy, most stories that we as the audience can experience wll have the Doctor struggling to solve the conflicts or problem until the end, instead of him using all his resources and knowledge to solve any situation.
In my headcanon, the Doctor have solved a lot of issues easily, but those stories were not interesting enough to fill 45 minutes of screentime, or multiple 25 minutes episodes spanning weeks, so we don't get the see it.
Glad you brought up the series 2 and 3 finales, I always thought those were too self-indulgent, and the space Jesus thing in series 3 made me mostly dislike that series finale more than I thought possible when I first saw it
Do you have similar problems with The Stolen Earth/ Journey's End?
@@nekusakura6748 to some degree, because I’m really not a huge fan of fan-servicey things like Rose coming back, Mickey and Martha being a couple (side note - why did they have to be a couple? Because they’re both black??)… part of me doesn’t dislike Donna’s story as much just because she doesn’t have the regular “romance” with the doctor, they’re relationship is slightly different. Actually, the companions (and even the finales, sometimes) are probably the biggest reason(s) why I preferred Moffat to RTD (but RTD is great, of course) as there wasn’t a traditional “romance” with Smith or (especially) Capaldi (my personal favorite Doctor) …. No space Jesus, too, also helps
@@jaguarnero Technically Martha and Mickey randomly being a Couple was in 'The End of Time', not TSE/Journey's End.
Just a minor correction.
@@nekusakura6748 oh that’s right, I usually jumble those parts in my head sometimes … regardless, still not much a fan of the obsession with coupling as many characters as possible in relationships, when it happens in any franchise, it really just annoys me, especially when I feel it’s unnecessary to do so
The only point i really agree with here is the stories focusing on modern day earth. I don't have a problem with those stories but it would definitely be much more interesting to go to new planets or revisit old planets at different times.
He never reached the emotional highs and lyricism of Moffet’s best stories but the best thing is he understands how Doctor Who works. Something Chibnall never seemed to get.
Chibnall despite his best efforts was not a good fit. Now if Doctor Who was more or a space drama he would have been a good fit but the things he was trying to do didn't pay off because he didn't understand the show at it's core and tried to make into something it's not.
While I enjoyed his run more so than Moffat, I was often left with this feeling that something was missing because it just didn't feel like Doctor Who.
@@eveescastle5866 Chibnall was good in that, when you just needed a filler episode, he was right there. They were never great, but I'd also say they were never horrible either. They were just... episodes. He should have never become a show show runner.
@@eveescastle5866 Can't Doctor Who be a lot of different things, though? I feel like you could just as easily claim that writers portraying the Doctor as more heroic have "made Doctor Who into something it's not" because the doctor in earlier stories (especially the first one, "An Unearthly Child") was kind of an awful person. And you could say Modern Who in general is "trying to make the show something it's not" because Classic Who - at least the serials of it that I've watched - is much slower paced and less action-heavy.
The show has changed plenty over time in plenty of other ways, so what's wrong with trying to turn it into a space drama? The fact that that would still be in space would even arguably make it a less radical change than the era of the Third Doctor and UNIT.
@@jvblhc I agree, while I think Chibnall did a good job with the non SF Broadchurch he is not good at science fiction, at least in my opinion.
Well, I will watch this video, but nobody is perfect even showrunners like Russell T. Davies.
Hinchcliffe.
i didn't care for RTD's writing on Doctor Who that much (with the exception of " Midnight", which is potentially still my favorite episode of Nu Who to this day), but his real talent was his ability to attract a great stable of writers like Shearman, Cornell and yes, Moffat. He was the showrunner, but it didn't feel as if he was THE writer in the same way as it did (an does) under Moffat and Chibnall.
Honestly we miss him in retrospect but I remember at the time finding a lot of stuff about New Who pretty cringey and awkward as it went on. Not sure how I feel about it overall but definitely an upgrade from Chibnall.
It's not perfect obviously nothing is ever perfect but it sure was the best era of Doctor Who and it was a great era at that.
@Tom Meehan I have actually been rewatching Doctor Who. My plan is to rewatch the first 10 series and so far I have rewatched the first 5. RTD was great and it was not perfect but it was certainly great. Also his era felt like a universe cause of the spin off shows. I do hope he brings back the multiple shows aspect like he had in his era. I say series 4 was his best series and the best series of Doctor Who cause almost every episode was a 10/10. For me the Moffett era was good and Chibs era has been unwatchable. I'm not even sure if I want to watch series 13 and I might just wait until 2023 for RTD.
Regarding the "mystery box" format...
Isn't dropping mystery boxes, i.e., hints or clues, the whole point of doing an overall story arc? Isn't it part of the storyline so that by the end, the viewer is enthusiastic and engaged in the storyline to the point that s/he goes back, rewatches the season to look for the "mystery boxes" and say to him/herself:
"Aha! NOW I get it!"
One of my other favorite shows, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER did this for all of its seven seasons--and even had characters in the later seasons say something that referenced an occurrence that occurred in its first seasons.
I think doing this is what makes it so enjoyable for fans to go back and rewatch (and rewatch and rewatch and rewatch) DOCTOR WHO, BUFFY, THE SOPRANOS, and other great "serial" shows.
I'm glad you brought up the Buffy comparison, because there's a MASSIVE difference. While some Buffy seasons had mystery box elements (prophecies, the Initiative, Dawn, etc.) that wasn't all they had. Initial answers would start coming FAR before the finales, and sometimes we'd meet the villain right in the first episode of a season. So, you'll have to forgive me if I'm of the opinion that a random turn of phrase that has no meaning until the last couple of episodes isn't exactly the same thing as an active evolving situation and/or a villain we meet and get time with but just don't know their whole plan until later.
You appear to be labeling any arc with mystery elements as a "mystery box," but for me it's only a mystery box arc if those mystery elements are basically the entire arc all by themselves.
@@CouncilofGeeks "It's only a mystery box if those mystery elements are basically the entire arc all by themselves."
Aha! NOW I get it! 😜 👍
Well, NOTHING in life is ever perfect so it's probably not a hot take
@@ReversedPolarity I also think it's a fair title. It's a way of teasing folks in without resorting to clickbait. It may not be a hot take but there are fans out there (putting the haters aside) that do consider RTD's run perfect. Especially from those who don't like Moffat's run, so yeah it's definitely a topic worth covering and reiterating.
For the first time since I realised Chibnall wasn't working out, I'm excited for the future, which is something I lost over time as I realised Chibnall wasn't working out too well. Yet I also have my expectations in check and to me, that is key.
@@ReversedPolarity Well like many, I went through the downturn in quality during the 80's, then the long drought that followed. So it's not my first time dealing with the show at a low point. However, I never lost hope and even now with Chibnall's upcoming season, I still hope he can show us some of that Broadchurch magic.
To coin a phrase from another sci-fi show - All this has happened before and all this will happen again. :-)
@@ReversedPolarity Yeah, Michael Grade in particular hated the show and has openly admitted that it was his mission to end the show when he took charge of the BBC.
I'm not someone who needs an answer to be given to everything, only the main points, along with enough info to figure the rest out. As divisive as it ended up being (along with it's faults), it's one of the reasons I enjoyed Lost from start to finish....but that's a discussion for another thread.
"Earth is by default the most boring place" Ehh...I really WANT to agree but I don't, but that's because the show doesn't always do a great job of making other worlds all that exciting compared to exploring time periods or alien encounters on Earth. I mean for the Classic series, almost every alien planet just looked like an abandoned quarry because that's all they were able to shoot in, Four even lampshades this one episode "Oh look! Rocks!" in Destiny of the Daleks. And even in New Who I can't think of that many worlds which really felt that interesting or somewhere I'd wanna go back to, outside of maybe the diamond world in Midnight or, from the classic series, Peladon would be great to return to for a new political allegory. So I'm with you on wanting stories set on other worlds but also we need some actual decent world building and imagination to go into these locations.
Heheheh pretty much all the things you talked about are part of why I loved the RTD era!
And you know what? That's fair.
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Yesss I wanted this video! (love the Davies era! I'm interested to see what downfalls my bias missed)
You’re right about RTD not wanting to leave If he was the companion. During an interview before Season One aired Billie Piper said that Russell was odd because he desperately wants to be the companion (as opposed to wanting to be the Doctor).
These are quite the interesting points. I will admit, you can tell that as he got along, things did in improve in his creativity and writing, but he also did sometimes give into stuff that perhaps didn't help the series in the long run.
He made Regeneration far more of an issue than other Doctors ever did. It focused more on the fear of dying than the hope of something new to come, as bittersweet as an ending could be.
Also, while he was progressive in so many ways, the fact that people fell in love with Ten was somewhat sensible, but too grotesquely sweet that only teena and shippers could enjoy.
Though, in regards to how it is written is also due to the landscape of TV at the time. Especially with scifi, fantasy, and horror. Doctor Who was a reaction to Buffy and Supernatural and stuff like Battlestar Galactica and Stargate. Shows that meshed the everyday drama of a soap with the other worldly.
Another great video as usual. I am excited what he brings in his return, but I do not expect a return to the 00s, but a new age with his voice in the roles and actions and comedy.
I never felt like the companions casually leaving in the original series very natural at all. If something as wonderful and impossible as this falls into your lap, why would you give it up after a few rides like an amusement park? You no longer have a need for food, money, or housing, so why wouldn't you make it your life?
Well, I'm glad that all the things you've cited as getting in the way of your full enjoyment of Dr Who are things that don't get in the way of mine.
To be fair to companions not wanting to leave the TARDIS: if you already are the kind of person that is perfectly fine with very dangerously travelling through time and space, and you can put up with the lunatic who owns the ship, why would you ever leave?
The very first companions from Earth only ever wanted to go home, but the TARDIS wasn't working and they couldn't get back to 1960s Earth for two seasons. At the end of the second season they found a different working time machine and went back home in that.
This was, imo, one of the strongest companion runs in the shows history, and one that ended satisfactorily and on the companions terms.
@@thegreentimtam
You're talking about Barbara and Ian, right?
I do suppose it would be different for involuntary Companions that the Doctor has basically kidnapped against their will.
@@Carabas72 Yes, Barbara and Ian. But theu don't need to neccessarily be "kidnapped". They could have enough of it. Or maybe originally think it was a good idea, and then change their mind. Could become homesick. Something could happen at home that makes them want to move back there. There are many possibilities.
Yes this is what i think people need to hear rn.
I think bad wolf was honestly my favorite series arc in the entirety of new who, like hey there's these two words that are following us around that's really weird. And in the end there's a time God reason for it
I was never a big fan of his era. Was too campy for my liking, Moffat was my fave showrunner, i loved his run.
The RTD era is kinda too campy sometimes, the Moffat era is kinda too horny and the Chibnall era is kinda cringe. I think the former two are intentional features.
As long as Cassandra never returns, there’s no farting slitheen and he NEVER allows a kid to write an episode in a competition again (I’m scarred by that absorbaloff thing) then his showrunning could be close to perfection again
The second appearance of the Slitheen was way better, but I agree.
@@Wrightbrain The Slitheen were also put to good use in The Sarah Jane Adventures in my opinion.
One alien I Don't want to see the return of is the Adipose.
@@nekusakura6748 I'd agree with that.
@@nekusakura6748 I loved the Adipose!! That's such a fun romp of an episode!
@@fish-fingers_and_custard7685 I personally find them grotesque in their concept (and not cute as the show tries to frame them as).
It's especially frustrating since anything not related to the Adipose in Partners in Crime is actually solid, but the Adipose ruin it for me.
I usually skip to The Fires of Pompei whenever I rewatch Season 4 of DW.