completely agree - ADDICTIVE is a great word to use when describing this series. Just the way it's written with the pacing and short chapters made it so hard to put down. One of my favorites for sure!
I had trouble the first time I read Malice. At one stage I thought I had Alzheimer’s - I just couldn’t remember who anyone was!!! There were sooooooo many characters. So, I started again and concentrated more and wrote a list of the characters. Success! I enjoyed it so much and then read the rest of the series. I love John Gwynne and ALL his books.
I found it super helpful that all of Gwynnes books after Malice, to my knowledge, have all had a cast of characters and some basic info on the first page
I was going to start this series once I finished my current series that I'm reading. It's been on my TBR for a very long time and I'm excited to give it a try.
You are such an inspiration to me as I build my own channel. Just sayin! Picked up Shadow of Gods was gonna start my Gwynne journey there. Let me know if I am making a mistake. As always thanks for the video!
Thank you so much! I've subscribed to your channel! That is very kind of you! I think The Shadow of the Gods is a brilliant place to start. The only downside is that book 3 isn't out yet!
@@libraryofaviking Can’t tell you what that means to me. I am finding this harder than u make it look so feel free to shoot any feedback my way. Cheers!
I felt like every chapter had something good that came of it. Loved the first book. If it gets better from this point then it might be close to the top of my favorite series by the time I’m done with it
It's been interesting seeing how authors adapt to changing reader habits, with many newer readers having shorter attention spans (probably due to social media and the internet); I've seen a couple other authors do this intentionally, but I wonder if the pacing on the series is thought out intentionally because of that, or if this was a more natural writing style Gwynne just developed out of habit.
I think it was more like the style used in Netflix series, where every episode ends in a cliff hanger only to be resolved in the first minutes of the next episode, that's what makes you binge the series. Same thing happened to me with this saga. From the perspective of plot structure I think this saga is genius
I am about 90-100 pages into Malice and I am loving it so far. I was prepared to feel confused. I’m not. Not at all. And I’m wondering why everybody has said it was confusing. And this is from somebody who hasn’t read a lot of fantasy.
I liked it, but didn't love it. I didn't experience the breakneck pacing you mentioned, but I know not everyone has the same experience. I'd say Wrath is my favorite of the 4 books.
It was ok. I loved the characters and the action. The pacing was good and the story was easy to follow. The prose is simple but decent enough. But it was way way way too predictable. I don't have any idea what the supposed "new take" on classic epic fantasy tropes were. Absolutely nothing new in this series. That isn't necessarily a "bad" thing and certainly isn't an "ugly" thing. Those tropes were done well enough; a few just as good as some of my all time epic favorite series. So unless your just sick of these tropes then you should try it because of how well he writes his characters and how good the action scenes are. He really stands out for those two things. The 2nd series, Of Blood & Bone, was not as good overall as F&F was unfortunately. The action was still top notch; he even introduced a cool new element to fighting. This is one where he does something a bit new; it has been done before but I don't think it was done this well. Unfortunately the characters weren't as well developed in my opinion. And they certainly weren't as likable as those in F&F. So while B&B had a few surprises and a bit of a "new" feel to it; it was lacking in the character department and that's what makes and breaks a series for me. I still give it a 3 star rating so I don't consider it "bad" by any means. Just not as good as F&F which would be around a 4 star rating. I'm glad I read the series and would certainly read more from the author. But I don't think he should do anymore with this series even though he left it open for something in the future. I just feel this has run it's course. In my opinion it would have been better to have left it at F&F.
Doesn’t Fantasy predicate that there will be action and battle scenes? I am having a little trouble trying to understand what you are trying to say. In other words, what Fantasy book have you read that has a little action and very little to no battle scenes that you love?
I read Malice but I didn’t enjoy it enough to continue with the series. One of the biggest reasons was the prose. However, since most people says the writing gets better as the series progresses, I may revisit it at some point.
So I binged the series up to Ruin. Ruin was good but not fantastic for me. Perhaps I went in with too much expectations. I stopped the series because I was feeling a bit jaded and I felt like I was going into a slump. So months have passed since I finished Ruin. Not sure when I will pick up Wrath yet. I'm beginning to be afraid I'll forget all the names and plot lines. 😅
Tanith Lee is one of the finest writers to ever grace the field of speculative fiction. The author of around 100 novels and several hundred short stories, she wrote two episodes of the iconic TV series Blake’s 7, was the first woman to win the British Fantasy Award - which she followed with two World Fantasy Awards, shortlistings for all manner of accolades including Nebula and BSFA Awards - and in 2013 she received a ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’ from the organisers of World Fantasycon.
You mentioned this series in your top ten series list. That made me read it. Then after four books I have to say I regret watching your top ten video!!! Haha well hey all the best cheers for trying. You mention world building, magic, lore in this review. I am just wanting to put this comment out here to say it’s really light on all of them, it’s very disappointing. There are seven treasures said to have powers but you only actually find out the power of two of them. There’s a good example for you if curious about depth. You wait the whole series to find out about them and never do. The magic goes as far as lighting fires. That’s about it. Ruin is not perfection, it’s disappointing too. There are a few solid chapters in the book and the rest are a let down. I am saying this to balance out what you said because it is a big big let down. It’s a let down. You will be let down. Keep that in mind. It’s your best chance of not being let down.
Just finished the series this week. It was okay. 3/5 for me. My biggest issue was with the fluff of the books. You could have easily cut 500-700 pages of the 2500 total in 4 books. The repetition of plot lines got to be a bit much. How many times do the same characters need to be captured, tortured and rescued, ad nauseam? It got to the point where I was 250 pages from the end of Wrath and basically saw the deus ex machinas coming. Overall, good books and good first series for an author. Here's to hoping the followups are better.
It's funny, everyone seem to think Malice is the worst of the first series, it's my favourite by far.. Probably because the pacing is more to my liking and I enjoy the "slice of life" aspect it have where we are learning about Ardan and Corbans family, I also think it's at this point where Corban is the most genuine, as the story progress I feel like he have too much character development too fast, he eases into his new roles, his internal struggles are last for half a page or so, and then gets somewhat settled out of "nowhere".. I also feel like the pov switching is not as bad(it's still pretty bad) in the first, because it's all still fresh and new, and we're learning about characters and a new world.. The pov switching tho, imo, is some of the worst i've ever seen.. I feel like Gwynne switches too abruptly, so instead of catching momentum at certain points, he hit the break, which probably is intentional but have no positive effect for me. I loved the series tho, I read all 4 books in under a week. It's a hero story, good vs evil, in a fantasy viking setting, what's not to like? :)
I also don't get why people think malice is the worst one, the pacing there is just perfect for me🎉 And also the fight in the end is one of my favorites I felt like I was transported into scene🔥
Im 1 book away from finishing all of his novels and I have to say he dunks on all the other current fantasy writers. I though Joe Abercrombie was good but there were definitely things he does that I absolutely hate. But Gwynne avoids any of those things and just makes endlessly readable and enjoyable books. I've never plowed through books so fast on my life.
I agree with the pacing and action, i think it would be even better if it was spread out over five books with more world building and character development
I'll be one of the dissenters I guess. I struggled through Malice, but the ending was very strong and I hoped after having set up the people/world, maybe he'd play with them some more in Valor. Instead the tropes got worse in Valor. I love classic fantasy, but I somehow missed any twist that he put on anything. All the POV characters were, IMO, painfully generic two-dimensional versions of classic characters. They were all perfectly pure versions of the tropey characters they were. We were frequently told things that never showed up in the action at all. The outlaw with a heart of gold kept reminding us how he used to be an outlaw because now he was a completely perfect soldier who perfectly accepted orders. We were constantly told the wolf companion was not tame, even though those little dogs that live in ladies' purses are more likely to disobey their owners. And the guy completely and totally only living to take revenge actually takes every opportunity to help anyone who crosses his path. By the end of book 2, I'm convinced that if he saw that man he wanted revenge on but saw an old lady who needed help crossing the street, he'd help the old lady and let the guy get away. The world was interesting, both endings of the two books I read were very strong. The villain's story, which was very good, easily the best part of the story IMO, was the only thing that pulled me through book 2. I'm not sure I would agree that it was a breakneck pace - read Rage of Dragons if you want to see that - but was solid enough. But the characters were painfully boring completely pure versions of characters I've seen done better elsewhere. But most people seem to disagree with me, JMO, take it for what it's worth.
I would highly recommend not reading the sequel trilogy if you haven't read TFATF. Of Blood and Bone has a lot of the characters from this series and focuses on the aftermath of TFATF in a lot of ways.
Its really interesting to me how much people can differ. Im amazed that you would call this serious "breakneck pacing" and "Such fast pacing". To me it was quite the opposite. I thought it was pretty slow(ish), but maybe im just too used to stuff like Red rising and Rage of dragons. But then again, what is pacing :P It makes sense that you would call it fast paced if you normally dislike action scenes. Anyways, i did like the series, and im probably in the minority by finding Wrath to be the best(and fastest pace) in the series. Great video !
Hot take: Faith of the Fallen is okay. I got bored of the same ole thing when I hit Ruin. Same pacing, same predictable plot points. I wasn’t being surprised. Reading Wrath required much teeth pulling just to sit down and finish it because I took a break after finishing the third book. I just wanted to finish it since I started it with such vigor. I kept waiting for something more, some type of additional depth. The characters became stale to me. It’s tough to say this when 90% of the internet disagrees. Maybe I just like more of a challenging read. This was very basic. IMO. Love the channel!
I say it’s overrated. I liked book 1 and book 4 was peak but most of books 2 and 3 were a drag. Didn’t connect with or much like anyone but maquin and fidele and i liked lykos or rather his part in the story. mainly I didn’t like corban or the girl queen so that’s likely why I didn’t love it all. But I’ll always remember Maquin and Fidele, love them so much.
Yeah I guess I will remain in the minority for this one as I really do not rate the series well at all. Each book was only just good enough that I kept going and read the next one. Personally I won't be reading any more John Gwynne, but every Booktuber seems to love it so 🤷♂. Anyway nice review
Not hyped enough, IMO
I agree!
MIKEEEEE
Spot on
Couldn't agree more
So true
We do agree it IS perfect! Truth and courage.
I am about 40% through Valor, and I read Malice about two weeks ago. I am LOVING it.
It is a fantastic read! Enjoy the rest of the journey!
Omg this is one of my favourite series as well. I read it towards the end of last year and i fell in love with the "wolf"
Your review of the series is perfect and is exactly the thoughts I had. Well done with articulating it all so well!
Thank you for pointing out that the chapters are short! For me as an English learner it is very convenient.
completely agree - ADDICTIVE is a great word to use when describing this series. Just the way it's written with the pacing and short chapters made it so hard to put down. One of my favorites for sure!
I read Malice last month and it was exactly my kind of book. I'm glad to hear the consensus is that the series improves.
I had trouble the first time I read Malice. At one stage I thought I had Alzheimer’s - I just couldn’t remember who anyone was!!! There were sooooooo many characters. So, I started again and concentrated more and wrote a list of the characters. Success! I enjoyed it so much and then read the rest of the series. I love John Gwynne and ALL his books.
Glad you were able to overcome the confusion!
I found it super helpful that all of Gwynnes books after Malice, to my knowledge, have all had a cast of characters and some basic info on the first page
I was going to start this series once I finished my current series that I'm reading. It's been on my TBR for a very long time and I'm excited to give it a try.
You are such an inspiration to me as I build my own channel. Just sayin! Picked up Shadow of Gods was gonna start my Gwynne journey there. Let me know if I am making a mistake. As always thanks for the video!
Thank you so much! I've subscribed to your channel! That is very kind of you! I think The Shadow of the Gods is a brilliant place to start. The only downside is that book 3 isn't out yet!
@@libraryofaviking
Can’t tell you what that means to me. I am finding this harder than u make it look so feel free to shoot any feedback my way. Cheers!
Thanks I am in. Just the type of series I was looking for. Village Boys rock.
I felt like every chapter had something good that came of it. Loved the first book. If it gets better from this point then it might be close to the top of my favorite series by the time I’m done with it
I smashed this whole series last year. No regrets.
It's been interesting seeing how authors adapt to changing reader habits, with many newer readers having shorter attention spans (probably due to social media and the internet); I've seen a couple other authors do this intentionally, but I wonder if the pacing on the series is thought out intentionally because of that, or if this was a more natural writing style Gwynne just developed out of habit.
I think it was more like the style used in Netflix series, where every episode ends in a cliff hanger only to be resolved in the first minutes of the next episode, that's what makes you binge the series. Same thing happened to me with this saga. From the perspective of plot structure I think this saga is genius
The “shorter attention span” thing is BS, people are just impatient and want explosions out of the gate.
I am about 90-100 pages into Malice and I am loving it so far. I was prepared to feel confused. I’m not. Not at all. And I’m wondering why everybody has said it was confusing. And this is from somebody who hasn’t read a lot of fantasy.
This series is anything but confusing.
Top 5 best fantasy authors out there. Love the old-school feel with today's grimdark, but with more hope and goodness.
Hi 👋 I like this series too!! Happy reading to u! 🙂
One of my favourite series. Perhaps in my top one...
I liked it, but didn't love it. I didn't experience the breakneck pacing you mentioned, but I know not everyone has the same experience. I'd say Wrath is my favorite of the 4 books.
It was ok. I loved the characters and the action. The pacing was good and the story was easy to follow. The prose is simple but decent enough.
But it was way way way too predictable. I don't have any idea what the supposed "new take" on classic epic fantasy tropes were. Absolutely nothing new in this series. That isn't necessarily a "bad" thing and certainly isn't an "ugly" thing. Those tropes were done well enough; a few just as good as some of my all time epic favorite series.
So unless your just sick of these tropes then you should try it because of how well he writes his characters and how good the action scenes are. He really stands out for those two things.
The 2nd series, Of Blood & Bone, was not as good overall as F&F was unfortunately. The action was still top notch; he even introduced a cool new element to fighting. This is one where he does something a bit new; it has been done before but I don't think it was done this well.
Unfortunately the characters weren't as well developed in my opinion. And they certainly weren't as likable as those in F&F. So while B&B had a few surprises and a bit of a "new" feel to it; it was lacking in the character department and that's what makes and breaks a series for me. I still give it a 3 star rating so I don't consider it "bad" by any means. Just not as good as F&F which would be around a 4 star rating.
I'm glad I read the series and would certainly read more from the author. But I don't think he should do anymore with this series even though he left it open for something in the future. I just feel this has run it's course. In my opinion it would have been better to have left it at F&F.
Loved this series and will reread 😊
One of my favorites series!! Needs no hype!!
Malice is a series i need to get too !
Doesn’t Fantasy predicate that there will be action and battle scenes? I am having a little trouble trying to understand what you are trying to say. In other words, what Fantasy book have you read that has a little action and very little to no battle scenes that you love?
Legends and Lattes and The Goblin Emperor has no action 😊
Its like minecraft but with lore
My favourite series ever
I read Malice but I didn’t enjoy it enough to continue with the series. One of the biggest reasons was the prose. However, since most people says the writing gets better as the series progresses, I may revisit it at some point.
Will you read and review a book called Radiant by Cody Gros
So I binged the series up to Ruin. Ruin was good but not fantastic for me. Perhaps I went in with too much expectations. I stopped the series because I was feeling a bit jaded and I felt like I was going into a slump.
So months have passed since I finished Ruin. Not sure when I will pick up Wrath yet. I'm beginning to be afraid I'll forget all the names and plot lines. 😅
Tanith Lee is one of the finest writers to ever grace the field of speculative fiction. The author of around 100 novels and several hundred short stories, she wrote two episodes of the iconic TV series Blake’s 7, was the first woman to win the British Fantasy Award - which she followed with two World Fantasy Awards, shortlistings for all manner of accolades including Nebula and BSFA Awards - and in 2013 she received a ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’ from the organisers of World Fantasycon.
Great books.
You mentioned this series in your top ten series list. That made me read it. Then after four books I have to say I regret watching your top ten video!!! Haha well hey all the best cheers for trying. You mention world building, magic, lore in this review. I am just wanting to put this comment out here to say it’s really light on all of them, it’s very disappointing. There are seven treasures said to have powers but you only actually find out the power of two of them. There’s a good example for you if curious about depth. You wait the whole series to find out about them and never do. The magic goes as far as lighting fires. That’s about it. Ruin is not perfection, it’s disappointing too. There are a few solid chapters in the book and the rest are a let down. I am saying this to balance out what you said because it is a big big let down. It’s a let down. You will be let down. Keep that in mind. It’s your best chance of not being let down.
Just finished the series this week. It was okay. 3/5 for me. My biggest issue was with the fluff of the books. You could have easily cut 500-700 pages of the 2500 total in 4 books. The repetition of plot lines got to be a bit much. How many times do the same characters need to be captured, tortured and rescued, ad nauseam? It got to the point where I was 250 pages from the end of Wrath and basically saw the deus ex machinas coming. Overall, good books and good first series for an author. Here's to hoping the followups are better.
It's funny, everyone seem to think Malice is the worst of the first series, it's my favourite by far.. Probably because the pacing is more to my liking and I enjoy the "slice of life" aspect it have where we are learning about Ardan and Corbans family, I also think it's at this point where Corban is the most genuine, as the story progress I feel like he have too much character development too fast, he eases into his new roles, his internal struggles are last for half a page or so, and then gets somewhat settled out of "nowhere"..
I also feel like the pov switching is not as bad(it's still pretty bad) in the first, because it's all still fresh and new, and we're learning about characters and a new world.. The pov switching tho, imo, is some of the worst i've ever seen.. I feel like Gwynne switches too abruptly, so instead of catching momentum at certain points, he hit the break, which probably is intentional but have no positive effect for me.
I loved the series tho, I read all 4 books in under a week. It's a hero story, good vs evil, in a fantasy viking setting, what's not to like? :)
I also don't get why people think malice is the worst one, the pacing there is just perfect for me🎉
And also the fight in the end is one of my favorites I felt like I was transported into scene🔥
Im 1 book away from finishing all of his novels and I have to say he dunks on all the other current fantasy writers. I though Joe Abercrombie was good but there were definitely things he does that I absolutely hate. But Gwynne avoids any of those things and just makes endlessly readable and enjoyable books. I've never plowed through books so fast on my life.
I agree with the pacing and action, i think it would be even better if it was spread out over five books with more world building and character development
I'll be one of the dissenters I guess. I struggled through Malice, but the ending was very strong and I hoped after having set up the people/world, maybe he'd play with them some more in Valor. Instead the tropes got worse in Valor. I love classic fantasy, but I somehow missed any twist that he put on anything. All the POV characters were, IMO, painfully generic two-dimensional versions of classic characters. They were all perfectly pure versions of the tropey characters they were. We were frequently told things that never showed up in the action at all. The outlaw with a heart of gold kept reminding us how he used to be an outlaw because now he was a completely perfect soldier who perfectly accepted orders. We were constantly told the wolf companion was not tame, even though those little dogs that live in ladies' purses are more likely to disobey their owners. And the guy completely and totally only living to take revenge actually takes every opportunity to help anyone who crosses his path. By the end of book 2, I'm convinced that if he saw that man he wanted revenge on but saw an old lady who needed help crossing the street, he'd help the old lady and let the guy get away.
The world was interesting, both endings of the two books I read were very strong. The villain's story, which was very good, easily the best part of the story IMO, was the only thing that pulled me through book 2. I'm not sure I would agree that it was a breakneck pace - read Rage of Dragons if you want to see that - but was solid enough. But the characters were painfully boring completely pure versions of characters I've seen done better elsewhere.
But most people seem to disagree with me, JMO, take it for what it's worth.
You summed up my feelings. I honestly feel sad I don’t like this series as much as others but hey I am glad it exists for those who love it.
I shamelessly picked these up recently because the set is gorgeous. Worried about the prose though, as I'm snobby that way.
I can be a prose snob myself, which is why the writing in Malice didn’t impress me.
Malice starts off kind of slow. Once it gets going its great until the end of Wrath.
I have never gone from really enjoying a series to actively hating one so fast.
Couldn’t get into Malice, but I’m going to try the sequel trilogy. If I like that I’ll go back and give it another try.
I would highly recommend not reading the sequel trilogy if you haven't read TFATF. Of Blood and Bone has a lot of the characters from this series and focuses on the aftermath of TFATF in a lot of ways.
@@libraryofaviking I hear ya! I’ll think on it 😊
Its really interesting to me how much people can differ. Im amazed that you would call this serious "breakneck pacing" and "Such fast pacing". To me it was quite the opposite. I thought it was pretty slow(ish), but maybe im just too used to stuff like Red rising and Rage of dragons. But then again, what is pacing :P It makes sense that you would call it fast paced if you normally dislike action scenes. Anyways, i did like the series, and im probably in the minority by finding Wrath to be the best(and fastest pace) in the series. Great video !
Hot take: Faith of the Fallen is okay. I got bored of the same ole thing when I hit Ruin. Same pacing, same predictable plot points. I wasn’t being surprised. Reading Wrath required much teeth pulling just to sit down and finish it because I took a break after finishing the third book. I just wanted to finish it since I started it with such vigor. I kept waiting for something more, some type of additional depth. The characters became stale to me. It’s tough to say this when 90% of the internet disagrees. Maybe I just like more of a challenging read. This was very basic. IMO. Love the channel!
I feel the same way. I think this is a good series for people who are new to high fantasy but in my opinion it is very much overhyped.
60$ for a hard cover is absurd
I say it’s overrated. I liked book 1 and book 4 was peak but most of books 2 and 3 were a drag. Didn’t connect with or much like anyone but maquin and fidele and i liked lykos or rather his part in the story. mainly I didn’t like corban or the girl queen so that’s likely why I didn’t love it all. But I’ll always remember Maquin and Fidele, love them so much.
Malice was a 2/10 book for me. I am baffled by the hype it has
hated it, stopped reading halfway through valor
First
No. It's awesome haha
Yeah I guess I will remain in the minority for this one as I really do not rate the series well at all. Each book was only just good enough that I kept going and read the next one. Personally I won't be reading any more John Gwynne, but every Booktuber seems to love it so 🤷♂. Anyway nice review
Wow huge spoiler with no warning.
Yes it is overhyped. (In my opinion)