The Earliest Creation Myths - Mythillogical Podcast (w/Mythology With Mike)
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- Опубликовано: 6 ноя 2022
- On today's episode, Charles is joined by special guest host @MythologywithMike to take a voyage through two thousand years of Mesopotamian History! Together they track the earliest surviving Creation myths, beginning with the fragmentary creation myths of the Sumerians, through to the Epic Creation myth of the Babylonian period, the Enūma Eliš.
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/ mythologywithmike
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This video was edited by Byron Lewis, check out his youtube channel at:
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Mythillogical logo by Ettore Mazza. You can find more of Ettore's excellent artwork below:
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#mythology #creation #sumerians
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Music: Suonatore di Liuto by Kevin MacLeod
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You can also find this episode on Spotify, iTunes, Google Podcasts and Stitcher! You can find it at the links below:
Spotify - open.spotify.com/episode/1CeUphzxiki3xcmUpxM1KW
iTunes - podcasts.apple.com/kz/podcast/mesopotamian-creation-myths-w-mythology-with-mike/id1514656609?i=1000582930704
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Wondering if a copy of Bulfinch's Mythology resides in your resource library
00:00 Intro
1:08 Guest Host: Mythology w/Mike
3:14 Topic
4:03 Sources
7:23 Mesopotamia: An Overview
11:45 Anunnaki (1st Mention)
16:08 Sumerian Mythology: surviving texts
20:06 Formalized Creation Myths
22:50 Sumerian Overview
23:08 Epic of Gilgamesh
25:29 EoG: Tablet #2
33:08 EoG: Text Dissection
40:20 Details; Outlines; Conclusion
41:35 Sheep and Grain; Sisters
45:16 Winter and Summer; Brothers
47:57 Gordon Inerta
51:12 Cain and Abel parallels
52:19 Barton Cylinder
54:41 Birth of the Anunnaki
58:10 The Deluge
1:00:01 Babylon: Overview
1:01:27 Hammurabi's Code
1:04:11 "The Flood" Overview
1:20:44 Babylon Creation Story: Tablet #1
1:31:31 B.C.S.: Tablet #2
1:34:17 B.C.S.: Tablet #3
1:38:31 B.C.S.: Tablet #5
1:38:31 B.C.S.: Tablet #6
1:43:12 Final Wrap Up; What's Next? Hints and clues (It's probably Anansi lol)
This is my personal break down;
Actual chapters:
Charles' Chapter: 7:23
Mike's Chapter: 58:55
Edit to add: I always love it when people do breakdowns like this so I can skip to/around if I'm not watching all at once, I had time to kill so I made notes while watching. Thinking about doing this for every long form video I watch that doesn't already have a non-cape wearing hero in the comments. I appreciate y'all's appreciation! ☺️ 🩶
Thank you 🙏
Thank you homie
ahh, was looking for time stamps! TYVM
You are a Saint!
they should add these to the description
Ahhh sick, I'm having a good day today. Doing laundry, dishes and cleaning for my gf and I was getting bored after 10 minutes but now I'll be able to listen to something for the next 2 hours.
Exactly the same but for my husband
@Danny Al What do you mean? We live together and she's at work today. We do it in turns? Or are you one of those people who can't handle modern gender norms hahaha. A man can clean, it's allowed. Also it will probably make her happy as I did it on my own initiative, it's still a chore to me.
Awesome right 👍 same here with same ole , same ole. But we're do it anyway.
You're a good, honest person 👍🙂✨🫂
@Danny Al maybe it's a woman. Maybe the gf is grandfather?
And if it's a man, so what? Obviously it's working. A job is a job that contributes to home also. Don't assume BS.
(Bullshit). Just in case 😵💫😂 . Chill .
He, they, probably are treated well.
Doesn't mean anyone finds needed chores bad or good. It's necessary. And it can and should be anyone as needed.
Sincerely, ✌️🖕💀😐 SMH
@Danny Al you sound like a beta
YEEEESSS!!! This is becoming one of my most quickly watched podcasts in terms of release to listen. I appreciate the work you put into these.
Why are you telling us this?
Why are all the middle eastern histories findings and deciphering are done by the westerners?
Thanks again for having me Charles!
CHAPTERS, CHAPTERS, CHAPTERS!!! Chapter markers, PLEASE!
You make a good point.
You don't have to yell
@@kyleflanagan8410 how else does one get attention
Go-Go gadget markers for that guy anyone ?
yeah i'm skipping a lot of content cause i hate intro preamble.
I just got the alert and I am here for this. I love the Mythillogical podcast and I've been waiting patiently for this.
Great stuff as always and well done to Mike for filling those shoes and taking on a fascinating but complex subject. Already looking forward to the next one.
Wonderful video as always. I love just laying back and listening to you talk about various history and myths. I've learned a lot I never knew and you're pleasant and fun to listen to. Was nice nice to see someone else too, I did not know of Mike's channel so I'll have to go check their videos
Oh, wonderful! Love breakfast with Charles.
Creation myths were definitely some of the most interesting to me growing up, so I'm excited about this one!
Safe trip, Crofty!
Many people have pointed out the themes the Cain and Abel story share with the Manu and Yemo sacrifice story (right down to them having a favored youngest brother named Seth). But I've never encountered the Sumerian argument between Sheep and Grain, where Enlil favors grain. I really feel the Cain and Abel story is a synthesis of the Sheep/Grain argument with the Manu/Yemo tropes. So cool
Sheep and Grain instantly reminded me more of Abel and Cain more than the other too, mainly because it showed agriculture gaining dominance over shepherding. That argument still comes up here and there. (First time I saw it was in _Scientific American_ in the '90s, and recently in the latest episode of _Earthlings 101_ plus lots of strife between ranchers and farmers at times.) Those themes seem to keep coming up in the varied types of things I watch and listen too. (It may be a bit of Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon too.)
I mean.... Dude brought a field salad to a bbq. How was that supposed to go?
I always saw those storys as an alegory to moving into agrerian lifestyles, and taming the land, not being a hunger/gatherer anymore.
I've always believed modern religions was nothing more than the telephone game originating here
@@cuteswan Because of this I see the Cain and Abel story as a direct response to Mesopotamian agriculture-centric ideology by the more pastorally-minded people of the coast.
Good to see more Mesopotamia on this channel!
Yay! Another great video, thanks!
Thank you for all your efforts to bring this to us.
Finally got to this, I'm a geek for anything antiquity. Thank you for your time and effort, I appreciate it !
Thank you for another amazing video
I had Ira Spar as a professor in college! What a fantastic person, and brilliant teacher!
I had him too!
wow, yeah I had him as well
Yaaayyyy!!!! So happy for this!! Did couple papers with this as my focus so I'm STOKED YO!!!
Well, that's TV sorted for tonight. Thank you very much!
I love Mythology with Mike! That's one of my favorite channels. I (sadly) admit, I've never seen this channel before. This sounds like a perfect interview to listen to whole I do chores! 💜
18:00
If someone today were to write a colloquial article about presently prominent politicians, you wouldn't elaborate on the origins of democracy. It's a given that everyone would have a basic idea how government has developed in America.
So, I completely concur with Mike.
I am currently a GVSU undergrad (soon to be grad), so imagine my surprise when I heard my university’s name in your podcast! Cheers from Michigan!
Extraordinary and very well done video here. Bravo for the hard work and it’s fruity endeavor. Thank You 😊
y’all made my night with this upload yeehaw
The incredible long reigns for semi-mythical kings is something typical when a culture shifts from oral to literal. The oral tradition preservs exact dates for only as long as 80 years earlier events still remembered are separated by a tradition gap and then remembered as mythical easier to memorize figures / tropes.
How is remembering fact over myth harder???
@@donnieboughton1730 Myth can transform information into easier to memorize forms. Like in this case: It's forgotten how long a ruler actually was in power, just that he was for a long time. It's easy to say '100 years' or something like 7 times 7 years instead of 48 years and 6 month. Oral tradition strongly depends upon the sound of a language as well transforming fact into easier to repeat forms. I'm not a native English speaker so it's a bit difficult for me to find examples.
Maybe they just used to live longer.
@@Peak_Stone Maybe, but very unlikely given everything we know of biology, human evolution and archaeological evidence.
@@peterdrieen6852 We know well of those things in the present, but we know almost nothing of them from that far past.
amazing video, thank u so much
So lovely hearing this discussed
Another incredible video
Mike did a great job!
I think it's fascinating how similar events, characters, motifs, and ideas appeared in ancient mythologies all over Eurasia throughout history.
Gotta love that proto-indo-European comparative mythology!
Around the world even. Almost all ancient civilizations share a similar creation story. The Bible is pulled in large part from the Sumerians yet is seen as factual but the Sumerian stories are myth.
@clintlechner4564 have you ever spoken to people lmao the bible is NOT considered factual, especially regarding creation, by most people
RE flood myth..... I'd never really given any thought to the ever changing and natural processes of a river. The consistent giving and taking of land.
Your mentioning of this coupled with my life along the Mississippi River struck a note. Many a city (and most likely past civilization) surrendered to the Mississippi or had been left far, far away from. Sometimes nibbling, sometimes rapid and dramatic.
Much enjoying the long format content.
I just love the topics you chose to cover. Never regretted subscribing to this channel
Congrats on 420k subs!
awesome content here!
Amazing !
Fascinating! I am guessing that the next episode will be about Anansi, right?
Awesome video!
Love your stuff! xoxox
Love your videos! May I ask what editing software you use? :)
Awesome listen
back when i was studying for my ba in history, i kept thinking about the origin of all the known creation stories throughout human history. leaving out the nutty theories, i couldn't help but think, where was the influence or origin of these stories.
A small guess : 🍄
Will save this video for my bedtime story tonight ❤
I've never been so excited for the next episode!. If it's who I think It is then I will be a happy camper. 😳😳😳😳
Love your videos! What is the music at the beginning?
It's in the description
Thank you
Ah!
Bigfoot part 3: Mesopotamian Squatchin'
Mike was such an awesome addition to the podcast, very well made and done as always. Thank you for all the great content
Always enjoy your show! FYI. Babylon was often code for the Empire of Rome by both Jews and Christians as it would be dangerous to mention them directly. So Babylon was not viewed negatively, it was referring to the oppressing power of the day. In fact, the rabbis of Babylon were held in high esteem and the Babylonian Talmud is the major text of Jewish Law studied to this day. The Jerusalem Talmud is pretty much the realm of scholars.
can you do a mythological talking about the parts that the Bible just rewrites older myths?
Of course he can't...
A lot of people would probably see the video as being made in "bad faith"
@@g.3521 i mean maybe some fundamentalist christians will but it's not like this is unheard for videos or books to be about the re-interpretation of older myths by the bible or christian religion as a whole...
Tolkein was also inspired by the Elder Edda. Plus these are all common creation tropes found in all creation stories.
Thank you.
I cannot wait to get settled down with my takeaway and four pack to this one after the day ive had
You tease yourself and call yourself RUclipsrs but this is one of the best explanations I've heard thanks for your time 👍👏
I feel like sheep v grain sounded more like cain & abel than winter & summer. Thanks for this video it’s great!
sounds as if they both merged with time into the story of cain and abel
Are your videos in podcast form anywhere?
is the new video going to be about Exu?
There is a really interesting and in my opinion plausible theory that the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were actually located at Nineveh.
If you are looking for them there there seems to be a somewhat decent amount of evidence for them existing.
Sizanogreen, interesting. Could you please share a little more?
@@robertomagnani8091 well, it has been a year since I last engaged with the topic so you might just be better of researching it yourself, but from what I remember: The Assyrian Capital was also often referred to as "Babylon" I imagine in the way one might say "Washington is the US's London" or something while trying to capture some of the ancient prestige. There has been a king in assyria who built colossal irrigated gardens there suspiciously similar to what is described in the legend of the hanging gardens, of which we have found rather legit archeological proof while we haven't at Babylon.
I enjoy listening to your microphone's perfect sound, and any others of lesser quality are very noticeable. Please consider that!
Just watched this video today, but I'm in Japan, so giving him a wave!
will be missing crofty this time tho! but excited for the guest host
love this channel for the objectivity... no woowoo or quackery. Subbed for life
Starting with the big bang no doubt
Your dear myth came long before honey.
@@J5X7 I doubt that treacle
@@nerdvana101 that leaves scientology then babes
@@J5X7 tom cruise all the right moves
@@nerdvana101 lol
The creation myths of Mesoamerica are vague and seem to have another back story that is not included... some suggests this is in part because there was a previous oral tradition that was just common knowledge to the people of the time and basically not worth writing down because the narrative was well known.
Seems like the story of Cain and Abel is a condensed version of these this vs that stories. lol I wrote that seconds before Mike brought it up!
Ohhhhh snap!
The passage beginning with "In those days, in those distant days...." sounds like song lyrics which would sound better in the original language.
Having large and small stones thrown at a boat could describe a volcanic eruption, which would seem to the geologically naive to be a battle between the gods.
1:37:00 well there are the Uruk-hai in tolkiens world. It would be quite the coincidence if that wasn't related to the mesopotamian city of Uruk.
It's amazing that Mesopotamian religion still influences popular religious though five or maybe six thousand years on with the concepts of Heaven being "up there" and Hell being "down there".
You missed All the Nag Hammadi creation myths. Very interesting and worth looking into.
Already listened on spotify, when the podcast version was released, but I'm looking forward to listen/watch again here on youtube!
I thought Tiamat was only a dragon in dnd and like Final Fantasy
You guys should check out the works of Randall Carlson if you haven’t already …. He has documented evidence of mass floods and points towards possible causes . Really enjoying this bed time story 👀😂🙌 thank you for this content ✌️💚☯️
hr also into secret knowlege. and symbols. he is 33rd degree freemason.. very gnostic
No he hasn’t, he’s a pesudo-intellectual moron who makes things up and throws unsubstantiated claims at people who don’t know any better to convince them to distrust anyone but him. And of course as soon as he’s gotten someone only trusting him he’ll sell them a book explaining the “real” history of the world
Yes, love Carlson - he's such a humble bawss 💪🏼🔥❣️
"The gods got tired of working and unionized" 🤣
My favourite.
Name checks out
@@ezrafriesner8370
ካልእ ፡ መጽሐፍ ፡ ዘጸሐፈ ፡ ሄኖክ ፡ ለወልዱ ፡ ማቱሳላ ፡ ወለእለ ፡ ይመጽኡ ፡ እምድኅሬሁ ፡ ወየዐቅብ ፡ ሥርዐተ ፡ በደኃሪ ፡ መዋዕል ።
እለ ፡ ገበርክሙ ፡ ወትጸንሑ ፡ በእሉ ፡ መዋዕል ፡ እስከ ፡ ይትፌጸሙ ፡ እለ ፡ ይገብሩ ፡ እኩየ ፡ ወይትፌጸም ፡ ኀይሎሙ ፡ ለመአብሳን ፤ አንትሙሰ ፡ ጽንሑ ፡ እስክ ፡ ተሐልፍ ፡ ኀጢአት ፡
እስመ ፡ ሀሎ ፡ ስሞሙ ፡ ይደመሰስ ፡ እመጻሕፍተ ፡ ቅዱሳን ፡ ወዘርኦሙ ፡ ይትሐጐል ፡ ለዓለም ፡ ወመናፍስቲሆሙ ፡ ይትቀተሉ ፡ ወይጸርሑ ፡ ወየዐወይዉ ፡ በመካነ ፡ በድው ፡ ዘኢያስተርኢ ፡ ወበእሳት ፡ ይነድዱ ፡ እስመ ፡ ኢሀሎ ፡ ህየ ፡ ምድር ።
You didn't read/use any of Dr. Irving Finkel's works? :'( But awesome episode nonetheless~!
It almost sounds like some of these early creation stories are not really creation stories at all. If you just substitute the word god for the name of a specific ruling family, all these stories make a suprising amount of sense. That add on to the epic of gilgamesh sounds a heck of a lot like a battle. I am assuming that most of these early cities were located on a river then descriptors like "underworld", "earth", and "heavans" make a lot of sense. A river would have been the main source of life for these early civilizations and so it make sense to think of the diffrence between city-states in relation to thier position on the river. Rivers flow down so cities dependant on a river would necessarily have to be at diffrent elevations and so a city on the highground could be refered as "the heavans", the middle could be "the earth" and the low point would be the underworld. Furthermore I know for example, that in Biblical hebrew the word for "heavans" and the word for "sky" are the samd thing so it would make sense to refer to a city above yours as a city above you. The big storm and the little ones seems to refer to diffrent sized armies and "stones of the hand" would likely refer to infantry while "those that made the reeds dance" would refer to wind or an arial attack (ie peltas or some equivalent). In fact I would surmise that most of these dynasties are named after the cities founder and that succusive dynastic leaders are refered to by the samr name because they are referanced only by their surname. (Kinda like how thr Austrian empire is commonly refered to as the Hapsburg empire and the emperor is often refered to as thr Hapsburg king). That would also explain why a lot of the creation myths don't actually describe the creation of the whole world but only elements of it.
Bingo.
Because the creation myths are not myths. More and more people are starting to piece that together. We have some of our history right, but we aren't even close on other things. ~13,000 years ago a flood wiped everything out, and all these ancient civilizations have creation myths that start with a flood and then someone appearing to give them culture, farming, astronomy, etc. Somehow they advance almost overnight. We can then document every thing they know and their miraculous growth I to civilization, but apparently all their other stories of how they learned all this, well, thats not believable.
As people go looking for the truth and more information, nobody wants to hear what they discover because it conflicts with our current timeline amd thought pattern.
There's a zero percent chance humans evolved as we are lead to believe. Look at the various skulls from each supposed evolutionary period and you see there is no actual evolution going on.
Tolkien was probably inspired by St. George fighting the dragon which has (in my opinion) obvious parallels with Marduk and Tiamat and also Zeus vs. Typhon.
The reason why the stories don't talk about early creation is because the stories are designed to document the Annunaki role in creation particularly. They create the earth persay. They reshaped it.
1:07:19
The first, seventh, and fifteenth of each month?
Aren't those the exact same days in each month the Romans used to mark when something happen?
this needs jazzing up. it makes me sleepy.
You and study of antiquity and Middle Ages should collaborate
I am really putting shade on this transaction, it needs working on (at the King, the water at the bow of the boat) ? I would say keal not king and would it not be stern not stem, which would make more sense to the flow... There are missing parts or words that don't belong... What ever the case it leaves me with a lot of questions of its meaning.
💖💖💖
Ooh, Anansi?
Huh, I wonder if the grain vs sheep tale is basically them telling the story of how farming took over from a hunter gatherer lifestyle
20 minutes in and we are still getting caveats
What?
Ancient Mesopotamia(Iraq)❤️
HEY! ive read most ov these books!
Ishtar Rockstar!
19:50 -- it's called an abstract.
Wait a minute Marduk's fight sounds A LOT like Gilgamesh's fight against Humbaba what's going on here ?
you're beholden to the modern era / christian creation, which goes to the level of a start of universe. since these early religions gods were most importantly noted for introducing order in the world, chaos is equivalent in explanatory power for those people
I've read or head the absu is where Enki lived. Which after him looking like dagon, after the flood, also I feel like if not enki and en lil as quatzecoatl. And quatziliapeechah gets him drunk so he can't marry a princess and gets banished etc. tbh I feel enki was vericocha, and maybe lived at bottom of lake Titicaca. If there was a global civilization it looks like the grains etc came from Mesopotamia. And quetzel, and quetzel soundmore like ninurya and nerghaal. I saw a thing where a guy lived under water for idk 480 days, said he barely aged cuz no sun or gravity messing with him.. idk. But if we find a lot of like Sumeria in like Titicaca. Idk .. also I thought the dilmun mean south America, at first I thought it was Africa the mining place but I think that had a different name instead. But idk I'm just saying ❤❤😊
Ham from bible was thrown out of the camp by Noah and he had one creation story of demons good and Noah worshipped God and therefore there was 2 creation stories!!Then basically ancester worship and demo demonic worship!Great podcast!
The second more ancient cuneiform script actually reminds me of the biblical story Cain and Abel... there must have rose a land dispute between the early farmers and animal herders over whose occupation was more essential; whereas these two groups rose up against one another and fought..
There must have been only so much usable land at thar time in those areas.. something like this happened in the 1800s in the western plains of America, where it also came to bloodshed among some individuals... I think that they more than likely wove it into a story attributing it to each group's Gods.. it is the story of Cain and Abel
Heyy away videos look into the Dardanians
I like the apocalypse and we sure need one right about now
I like that back then the gods had to find loop holes for there shenanigans
I think 4 is referencing omnipower bc 4 corners of the world
So did the Sumerians chop-off heads and suchlike, or were they the civilised people like we are told?
Err, I insist on Crofty;s participation
Did you know with quantum you cam kill with a smartphone