Here be Dragons - Mythillogical Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In this inaugural episode, Charles and Crofty dive into the world of Dragons, including their origins in Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece and far off China and Japan.
#Mythology #Dragons #Greek
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"we're not experts"
Here hang on a minute, does that mean there IS such a thing as a dragon expert?
Why wasn't I told that was a potential career path at school?
#Truth
It’s very expensive ! The dissections alone can almost kill you .Don’t be cheap when spending on your school uniform ,it’s most important to get flame proof rather than flame resistant .
You clearly haven’t seen Harry Potter then 😝
Most school Guidance Counselors are unaware of the option. You can always enroll now.
I myself have the right to grant a B.S. degree of Dragonology, apply on my website for just $200,000 per semester. BTW the degree is only useful for applying for the study of a doctorate, which I, too, happen to offer for just $1,000,000 for a 3-semester course, all fully online!
We had a bit of a problem with an echo on one of the mics, I've attempted to edit around this as best I could. Rest assured this will be fixed in any future episodes.
Brother Jake's Reconnaissance it’s a play on words obviously
Dragons are from the sky and space which is visible universally as comets and bolides. Yesterday I was looking up feathered dinosaurs and avialae as a search term brings up 80% what use to be underground comic smut. I would suggest reading my book, follow the avatar. The UK still can not move around? I have been waiting for more Sir James George Frazer from the UK, wonder if it is still there. The ancients used words of water, sea, pond, ocean,etc. for the heavens. The sea monsters are not in the terrestrial water. The seven heads represent the Pleiades wherein the destruction emanated from to blot out the Sun, such as Apollo and Typhon. Seems Wikipedia has it half right Apollo is allude to as the Sun yet Typhon, I don't know...
What shall we do tonight Apep? Same thing we do every night Pinky, try to kill Ra. Its Pinky and the Apep, Apep , Apep.
I could totally imagine an opportunistic traveling knight stumbling upon a dinosaur fossil/bones, and claiming it as if it was his kill.
Fossils tend to be inside rocks though
@@andybeans5790 and ya know. they're *DEEP* underground.
@@notinspectorgadget Not really, most fossils are only found because they are partially exposed in the surface in some way. However, identifying dinosaur fossils as former bones is hard for non-experts today let alone Pre-scientific people, there's plenty of examples of how bad they were at identifiying relatively recent stuff that still looks like bone.
@@HoveringAboveMyself link to examples? Interested
Hell yeah I'd do it.
Especially if I found the fossil in some crazy way. For example an earth quake moving the dirt and revealing a dino fossil.
Then I would be like:
" You know that racket that shook the ground? It was the dragon I fought and slayed. See (me holding up the biggest bone i could find and tie to my horse) here's a leg bone ! "
This came right at the right time for me. I've been recently studying dragons myself, focusing more on the Sumerian and Greek tales of Dragons. Thank you so much for this wonderful, rich dialogue!
All of Tolkien's qoutes about dragons are great.
I never hear these from Tolkien.. hmm, mabe u list some of best ones for the plebs can enjoy..? :)
Real McGoy seriously yes 😎🍻👌
Tolkien sucks man. And is also a hack. But then again what else could one expect from a imperialist Brit nostalgic of 18th century Tory Teagardens?
My first exposure to dragons was from the cartoon, "Puff the Magic Dragon" lol .
What thats a cartoon. Since when I know it's a song
@@BIATEC88 oh man, i think early to mid 80's. It is cartoon-movie.
@@enriquehartmann8642 🤔 have you seen flight of dragons. If not and you like fantasy check it out. It is a book but also a cartoon from around the same time. It's got some good ideas in it making it more than a simple child's cartoon.
No harm in a little Puff 😂😂😂
I live in a land of Dragons, we call them gators down here.
Louisiana myself, many dragons to be CHOOTEM'd lol
We turn dragons into chili
From mythology to fairy tales, I remember that dragons required one virgin maiden per year for dinner. Hope you have ample supply. Of maidens, not dragons.
I know what you mean; Floridian here. 😅
@@janeck.8695 Virgins are much harder to find these days.
The other entities in Chinese mythology aren’t dragons, with the exception of the Azure Dragon. There’s the Vermilion Bird, the White Tiger, and the Black Tortoise.
Quing long is the azure dragon right? SMT has taught me something
40:50
Celtic languages ARE Indo-European languages. The only non Indo-European languages in europe are Magyar, Finnish, and Basque.
There are a few more Uralic languages in Europe besides Magyar and Finnish, such as the Sámi languages and Estonian. There are also some Turkic languages (primarily in Russia and the European part of Turkey), Maltese (descended from Arabic and as such a Semitic language) and a few other assorted non-IE languages depending on where you consider Europe to end. If we're talking only majority languages of a country considered to be wholly in Europe it's just Finnish, Estonian, Magyar and Maltese I guess.
31:30 - Not unusual at all, since Seth was not a villain. He was a god of storms, the desert, and violence, but like all gods in the Egyptian pantheon, they all supposed to fundamentally uphold Ma'at in someway. The feud between Seth and Heru (Horus) is even resolved eventually in the myths. Seth was only vilified after the New Kingdom because of his association with invading foreigners, but even then, in some parts, there were cults were he was a hero god. Later on, Greek mystery cults and Zoroastrian influence completed the association with Apep (which was a primordial force, rather than a specifically a god, in opposition to Ma'at). Apep is rather interesting, since it might be the inspiration for equating the serpent in the garden with Lucifer.
1:23:00 - Interestingly, the dragon of Romanian mythology (Balaur - IPA [ba'la.ur]) is effectively a Hydra, given a different origin story as a magically mutated snake (many variations, some including a magic trinket or crystal), where a very mundane snake (like the common viper) withdraws to its lair and magically metamorphoses into a Balaur.
I'm not sure if Apep directly inspired the serpent in Genesis being the Devil - I think it's more likely to be a general meme of equating serpents/dragons with primordial evil and chaos. In this way, Apep, Typhon, Tiamat, Echidna, Leviathan, Jormungandr and the Genesis serpent all share a prehistoric concept.
@@brunopereira6789 Oh, sure, the basic association is ancient but I was referring to the specific association between the snake in Eden (a throwaway character originally), and Satan (The Adversary, another throwaway character in Job). They got mixed into later developments in Judaism, possibly under Kemetic influence.
@@alexandruianu8432 what does 'kemetic' refer to?
@@brunopereira6789 Kemet (km.t) = Ancient Egypt.
@@alexandruianu8432 ah yes, lol, I should've caught that
45:00 I'm not surprised that My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic is mentioned in regard to the Chaoskampf because it hits the idea pretty squarely on the nose in the second season with the main characters facing off against Discord, who is described as a Draconequs but combines multiple animal parts and has the general shape of a dragon. Discord is the embodiment of chaos, but rather than an animalistic and destructive entity, he is a trickster god that takes great pleasure in playing with the protagonists. Also, of note, is that when he is defeated, he eventually becomes a friend and ally to the main characters.
I'm just gonna make this abundantly clear. I haven't even finished the Druid video. I'm starting this video. The music alone and the length of the video had me immediately scrolling down to sub. I love this channel. Thank you for existing, I hope you grow exponentially.
"y-yeah that's my assumption just from looking at the title...that it teaches good values for children" *cough* *adjusts collar*
@@Archangelm127 And anyone that has anything against anyone being a nerd needs to chill too. It's not the 1970s anymore, and it was never a cool way to think anyway. Many people just don't have the mental capacity for even basic hobbies and can't accept that they're dumb so they bully the people that have real interests and are able to understand and learn things.
True, but with that mindset, you can't blame someone for being a little off-put by an adult male writing a doctorate thesis that uses a children's show as a major reference.
It's less about being a nerd and more about being a brony.
Someone come fix your bot
ABSOLUTELY LOVED THIS. thank you so much, I'm so excited to see where this podcast goes
Tornadoes. It's that simple. If you've ever seen one in person you'd think serpent from the sky breathing smoke. Seems alive, it is incredible.
I've always thought so.
The connection between the Greeks and Phoenicians is that the Greek alphabet originated from the Phoenician writing system after the Greeks came out of their Dark Age.( Before the Bronze Age Collapse the Myceneans used the Linear B script, but they are seen as pre-Greeks to the Indo-European Greeks, though the ancient Hellenic Greeks presented their civilization as the successor and descendant of the Mycenean civilization.)
A little correction- The Mycenaeans were Indo-Europeans.
Humans transforming into dragons is a very common occurence in Germanic mythology, especially Icelandic sagas.
Also if you want West African Chaoskampf adjacent myths, I think the Bayajidda myth and the Dausi epic are a bit of a fit. No thunder god, but definitely a dragon guarding the water.
Great talk. One thing you seem to have gotten hung up on is the seeming impossibility of the dragon stories, or those with shared motifs, such as the consumption and rescue of the solar character from the belly of the beast, usurper kings threatened by the true heir/true king etc, being directly transmitted by cultural contact due to the physical barriers of distance and location between these peoples. Maybe the solution is that these stories are based on foundations far, far earlier than even ancient antiquity, perhaps in mythology dating from before the Japanese Paleolithic,, that is, the colonisation of what is now Japan. This would indicate these themes are very ancient indeed. This might seem unlikely. However, given the longevity of myths among the Indigenous Australian peoples which apparently do record actual events such as sea level changes as much as 18,000 years ago, maybe not so unlikely. Naturally such ideas are controversial, but without resorting to speculative woo such as the collective unconscious or genetic memory, the hypothesis with least assumptions seems to be that these themes arise from a common shared cultural origin, perhaps among the early modern human groups as they began to spread into central Asia from North Africa. Worth thinking about? No idea. Cheers.
We had giants in pre flood history so why not dragon's
the earth is dragon carcasses
and we are the maggots upon these rotting carcasses
Dog guarding the underworld mytheme is present in native American legends, apparently some serious scholars think it might share a common origin with eg Cerberus. So not impossible but you'd need strong evidence to distinguish this from a convergent mythology evolving from essential human psychological traits
You saying that the dragons retreated into the hollow earth with all their magic conveniently with zero physical trace of them at all? Makes sense to me
My first dragon was from the front cover of the 1st book I ever chose for myself. It was full of beautiful illustrations including 2 dragons pulling the conveyance of the powerful magical godmother who softened Sleeping Beauty's curse.
The 2nd dragon was the jewelled animated version from a George Pal film.
So to me they are first and foremost creatures of great beauty.
I was 30 years old. I had went into a vision after a traumatic event. In my vision I went to a therapist to remove stress. I read some ancient scroll. It was in an unknown language. As I read it though it came through as my native language. As I reached the last sentence myself and the therapist dropped into the ocean. We landed in a white row boat after dark in moon light.
Startled I asked the therapist, “where are we?” She replies, “I don’t know, you brought us here!” In that moment a Deep Masculine Voice that move the blood in my veins spoke, “You’re not welcome here!” And the therapist was gone!! I was scared I turned looking for the voice and huge dragon head came out of the water….. No more words spoken. As the dragon moved the ocean and my row boat moved with him. We came to land, everything burning people screaming. I had a choice to run away or follow the dragon. I was mad at the dragon. I blamed him in my head for the destruction.
As I followed him we came to a tree. He turned himself into a snake 🐍. We dropped into the tree slowly drifting down into the glowing golden roots.
Here I began to battle him at first. Out of nowhere I knew he was not to blame the world was in chaos created by fear of man’s mind. He spoke as I was having the realization, “ Stop fighting me, I am you, you are me, we are one!” I felt so much love and compassion come over me. I immediately stopped battling the dragon. And approached him in the highest love ❤️ compassion. I climbed into him. Became one and come out of hypnosis.
I can relate to this almost 100. Thank you for sharing. Made a big difference to my world. And beautifully written by the way
6:30 My first experience with dragons was because my dad had a collection of some really bad ass east asian dragon statues (you know, the ones posed on a rocky crag with one paw on a marble orb, looking slender without wings).
I remember that we had an artist doing body painting at the daycare I went to growing up doing free body paintings (like face or hands, nothing creepy). Mind you this is, like, San Rafael in 1993, Toothless didn't exist yet and Lord of the Rings wasn't very widespread.
This artist asked me what I would want painted on me and I told her I wanted a dragon. She painted on my forearm this totally Pete and the Dragon doofy-looking, winged lizard and I was so embarrassed I hid up in the playground the entire day.
I grew up around adults who loved musicals, so I watched a lot of Disney and non-Disney, so mine was probably Maleficent, or that... that one movie called Quest for Camelot. Were there other Arthurian movies for kids in the '90's? Did Disney's Arthur movie (The Sword in the Stone) have a dragon? Did Fantasia? I remember being in kindergarten and sorting out the differences between dragons and dinosaurs...
I read the Hobbit when I was 7 and hated it, reread it as an adult and still hated it. Go ahead and burn me at the stake, I don't like Tolkien.
I made up my own dragon in my head
I found out about your channel by being recommended your video on the Druids, and am now really sad that part two isn't up yet. This will certainly do in the meantime. Keep up the great work!
The Proto-Indo-Europeans did migrate into the east, as far as modern China. The Afanasievo culture
is an example of this and possibly the earliest example (dating around 3300 BCE - 2500 BCE). Many archaeologists believe that these people or a related-group brought metal weaponry and the chariot from the West into China. So, this could explain any dragon-relations. Great video by the way!
OK, boys, my very first encounter with a dragon was in 1963 when I was 15 and Peter, Paul and Mary gave birth to "Puff the Magic Dragon". Don't WE ALL Know that a dragon is simply A Dinosaur that is Suffering from GERD (GastroEsophogeal Reflux Disease) and ignites the expelled gastric gases by looking at them cross-eyed. sdh in CT, USA
Same here but about thirty five years after you when I was three or four thanks to my grandma.
For Me it was the late Seventies...We used to smoke this stuff called blue dragon...
And, perhaps, said dragons fly by igniting the gases from their behinds?
I first heard "Puff, the Magic Dragon" when I was in my middle teens; I cried every time I heard (and hear) it. Forget the real meaning - I think the tale is a sad one.
I wonder if the Sun god (Apollo) fighting a serpent (Python) has any relation to the Sun god (Ra) fighting a serpent (Apophis)
One of the theories I heard was that a dragon was basically an amalgamation of all the predators that would have been most feared by our primate ancesters living out on the African savanah. Big cats, snakes, large carnivorous reptiles like crocodiles & large raptors were all a constant threat to a small ape. The other less "evo psyche" theory is that to many ancient peoples both snakes & birds became spiritual symbols. Snakes because they shed their skin & became associated with transformation & rebirth, birds because they soar in the sky & that is where the gods live. So, if you combine the two you get a very special symbol/animal. Both theories are interesting.
The reason Dragons most likely are more "malevolant" in the west is probably because of their association to serpants & paganism. Once Christianity became the dominant religion in Europe, all things serpentine were considered Satanic. The myth of St. Patrick driving the snakes from Ireland was a euphemisn for converting the pagans. I assume the story of St.George killing the dragon is essentially a parable about overcoming evil/satan or the dragon represented non Christian enemies (crusades) But from what you discussed in the podcast, there are many examples of a warrior archetype killing a serpent throughout pre christian history too. So maybe it's not that unusual for dragons/serpents to be more malevolant/monstrous/antaginistic in some traditions & Christianity just adopted a motif that already existed.
Dragons are also associated with comets & meteors. This symbolism & allegory was used heavily in ASOIAF( Game of Thrones)
Really cool podcast. Can't wait for part 2 ☄🐲🐉
i dont know why you found the my little pony reference so outlanfish. in that cartoon there was a trickster god/dragon character who personified chaos. so it does make sense. pop culture is today's mythology.
the myth of the chaos serpent/dragon vs the warrior sky god just mirrors the passage from a hunter/gatherer society to an agricultural one. the hunter/gatherer religion was centered around a goddess of fertility/death associated to the figure of the snake (symbol of life-death cycle). later with human society turning agricultural, the figure of the warrior (needed to protect the land from invaders) became so important that the father of the sky-warrior god was created. because the old earth goddess/chaos snake wasn't worshipped anymore, she became the enemy of the sky warrior god.
The original inhabitants of norther Japan, came from Russia. I'm referring to the Ainu. But this was prehistory,so.......
Keep going
The Ainu originated from Africa, and they were black and migrated to Japan.
In the middle ages and prior, there were komodo dragon type creatures in Europe and Asia. They were probably an evolutionary offshoot of the komodo. I don't have to prove this. It came to me in a dream.
My first memory of a dragon was in a dream at five years old.
To the person who liked my comment, did u ever have dreams of dragons too.?? This was also a recurring dream. I'm using the word Dream here but I should probably be saying Nightmare. And the Dragon was purple by the way.
Good stuff!
If you guys are interested in the origins of mythology and mythological figures (especially Greek gods but also including dragons, petroglyphs, and other ancient lore, symbols, and art), I would highly, HIGHLY recommend a documentary called Symbols of an Alien Sky (nothing whatsoever to do with extraterrestrials, by the way). It offers an alternative hypothesis for how these myths and legends are rooted in a shared experience by ancient peoples across the globe, which they interpreted as gods and later anthropomorphized into mythology. The evidence for this is very, very compelling and it's all in the documentary.
It can be found here on RUclips on the channel Thunderbolts Project. I expect you guys will do a pod on Greek mythology at some point so please give it a watch before then if you have time. It's absolutely worth the time, and in my opinion should be seen by anyone fascinated by ancient history and the origins of our symbols and mythology. Cheers!
ohh younger dryas stuff included me hopes
Terrible recommendation
I'd image that a 23-foot saltwater crocodile would look like a sea serpent to early mariners.
For chinese
Zh is pronounced like J
Q is pronounced like Ch
X is pronounced like Sh
Thank you for not putting ads in the middle
The relationship between Tiamet and Marduk is interesting, I know some people view this as evidence of a cultural shift from an egalitarian society to a more patriarchal one. Which is an interesting idea, which i don't know enough about mythology and ancient history to say if i believe or not.
Essential work - here in L.A., podcasts, news programs, journalism and those services required for such are specifically set out in the government's emergency order as "essential services". In the home of Hollywood/Burbank, that might be understandable. Really like the topic - my family name is Dragu, a Romanian variant for Dragon.
It’s criminal that this channel only has 65k subs. I spend hours watching these videos and they’re so well done. They also go deep into tough subjects that actually take research that other youtubers ignore.
Does historcrat have a Patreon?
yes go to his about section
The Hobbit was my first bedtime story book so Smaug was my firs dragon as well
Heracles means ‘Glory to Hera’. This may just be a lame attempt by Zeus to placate Hera. But I wonder if this points back to a pre-IndoEuropean pantheon lead by a goddess who became subordinate when the indoEuropeans took over.
Susasno-o did not cause Amaterasu to be "exiled". She was upset and hid away in a cave, but no one else actually wanted her to do that.
In Slavic myths the storm god Perun sometimes contends with a serpent god Veles. There might be some link there considering the Hittite language also has a similar structure to the slavic languages. Slavs also seem to have a lot of multiheaded fire breathing dragons called San, or have dragons which can turn into a human or dragons which have a more of a humanoid form.
Also while the silk road was established during the han dynasty (200 BCE) The contact of Central Asia with West Asia and in turn with East Asia existed possibly as far back as 5000 years ago. The contact was unfortunately severed by the spread of the Gobi desert, but the naval contact must have persisted as silks, spices and other valuable goods such as jade and lapis lazuli still flowed into the Middle East and in turn found themselves in hands of Phoenicians and later on Romans.
I originally watched this before you had pictures. Now re-watching.., much, much better
Imagine being the first guy to find a pterosaur fossil
Imo it's pretty clear that G-d was given aspects of Baal, El, and Asherah. The most controversial thing would be saying he was "co-opted", as Canaanite religion evolved into monotheism within itself into Judaism, though there is evidence that this was at points enforced on the population by rulers and priests and there was a lingering aspect of polytheism for awhile. Nitpicky I know but I get sick of people (mostly pagans) claiming that Judaism "stole everything" from other religions instead of... evolving from Canaanite and Mesopotamian religions over time.
My first dragon was Mulan! He was cute and tiny and I wanted my own dragon not realizing most depictions are like the dragons in Game of Thrones. Still love dragons 20 years later.
In The Witcher TV series adaptation one of the dragons can transform into a human and back to a dragon. Great stuff🐉🐲
D&D has had that power given to Dragons since the 1970's.
My first encounter with dragons was probably in the tales of Earthsea.
T'was the Algorythm that bringeth me. Quest la vie.
Lord I am high.
Praise be to the algorithm
The Chaoskampf's appearance in Japan has an incredibly obvious source. Buddhism made it to Japan. Buddhism is a Vedic religion. The Vedic religions are Proto-Indo-European religions. What did you think the "Indo" in "Proto-Indo-European" means?
This was very good. I've been reading up on proto Indo-European mythology and you guys touched on a lot of interesting stuff.
I'm curious about how other bits of Japanese mythology might parallel with classical indo-euro myth. The Sanzu river could be thought of as a parallel to Styx/Hubur. I don't know of anything else and this again might probably be a case of parallel ideation.
There are SO many cases of humans becoming dragons and dragons becoming humans.
21:20 Tiamat is even more prominent in the inspiration for Final Fantasy- Dungeons and Dragons. She, along with Marduk and other figures from Mesopotamian mythology, were given statistics in the Deities and Demigods book. She is depicted as the Mother of Dragons, with a separate head for each of the Evil Dragon species descended from her. This depiction was the inspiration for Final Fantasy's Tiamat.
The French explorer who listed the animals in Africa has dubious credentials....there are no tigers in Africa unless they are in a zoo.
48:00 Lo Pan is the guy from "big trouble in little china"
oh, you're saying Lo Tan, not Lo Pan, my bad
Wow, that's a lot more about dragons then I expected.
My first dragon was about six when my church group showed us a film depicting St. George fighting a dragon
According to a recent paleo documentary about new feathered dinosaur finds in China, (Feathered Dragons) the same Chinese word means both dinosaur and dragons
One writer suggests that the biblical behemoth actually referred to Nile crocodiles?
I think most scholars agree Behemoth was a giant bull that symbolized livestock and nature.
My first memory of dragons being a thing was in year 1 of school (UK) around 1995. They would roll in the big TV, put the video tape in and show us - Look and read, Through the dragons eye. Was brilliantly weird and British. Love the nostalgia of it now.
First exposure to Dragons? An old cartoon called Flight of the Dragons. I think it had some famous voice actors.
This is so comprehensive, and I look forward to Part II with bated breath!
1:03:45 -- I stumbled on this set of associations by accident a number of years ago, whilst looking into worldwide patterns for numerological systems, such as days of the week. China, like most of the rest of the world, apparently noticed that 5 days for the "work-week" and 2 days for the special deities spoke deeply to our human sense of understanding. Thus, Sun and Moon days exist worldwide, and each of the 5 week days with solar system objects attached.
This also presents something of a puzzle for the whole Order / Chaos dichotomy you've been outlining; notice in the English calendar of the Middle Ages and onward how the 7 days are split down the middle between classical and pagan identities? Mercury, alongside Odin, for example. Also, both Sun and Moon were given alchemical importance in their myths about where and how the various metals were made. The Chinese system truly distinguishes itself in the set of 5 elements, rather than the classical European 3 or 4.
The Middle Element, "Yellow Deity" cross associated with Saturn is the 5th Element, the Human interface between the ideal and the real, and the sublime stuff which forms on crude matter because of it.
When I listen to Charles and Crofty I feel like with two old friends
THIS IS AMAZING I LOVE THIS!!!!!!!
I'm disappointed this isn't SCP related... But YAY!!! HISTORY!!!
This was a strange Elden Ring lore video but I'm here for it. =)
This is the coziest channel of all time
"Zh" in Chinese is more of "dj" sound from what my chinese friend has instructed me, belatedly. it can sound like a "s" or "z" to english speaking ears, not unlike the french "j". it was actually an enlightening pronunciation discussion. either way, enjoyed this!
Susano-o vs Yamata-no-Orochi likely came to Japan via India, which has its own serpent slaying myth in Indra vs Vritra. This means it is also a derivative of the Proto-Indo-European myth.
Nice Final Fantasy drop with Tiamat. Also; the Simon version of the Necronomicon references Sumerian Deities as well. Digging this series & love this channel!
Ahhhhhh Red Dwarf!!!!!! So loved that!!!!
As far as My Little Pony, Discord, is a figure like dragon that is the master of chaos. So my guess is that's why it popped up. This is all so fun.
1:06:23 -- "However, in Japanese Mythology, the 5th Element is Void." -- Funny enough though, as long as the 5th Element has an association with Saturn, that "Void" could also be interpreted as human Freedom of Choice, AKA "Chaos" of a kind, creative possibility and freedom of action through imagination.
One Chinese story I know is one of a boy who found a dragons Pearl swallowed it to keep it safe suddenly became very thirsty drunk the village well dry then drunk the stream dry before transforming into a dragon he is the water dragon
This is really cool :) FYI your not far into your playlist so I'll just say that it's really hard to binge watch a show when the playlist is backwards lol just my problem. Other people might have it too. IDK. Trying to constructive, not mean. Have a good one :)
There are Chaoskampf equivalents all over the world even among Native American legend (the Thunderbird/Thunderbird-aided heroes vs. the Water Serpents for example), which leads me to think it's less of a transmitted specific myth (though the Near East ones are definitely connected) and closer to just a universal trope. "Lightning is an awesome superpower and fighting huge monsters is cool."
Quetzalcoatl is an interesting iteration though because he's both a civilizing weather/storm god AND a giant serpent
The indo-european tribes 6000-4000 years ago started migrating both west, east and south. These tribes had their on religion, language and distinct genoms/genetic make up, the primerly went west and changed all of europe up til now, the populations were much bigger in the south and east however compared to europe and therefor did not change those areas that much as they did on europe, but they migrated eccept from europe, iran and india also all the way to the most north eastern siberia which means that they could have migrated into north america and japan, genetic tests on north american indians shows that they share the same mitocndria haplogroup genes that modern europeans have, that means that they also migrated in to north america and mixed with that populas, I do not know if it is the same with the japanese but som indo-european tribes at that time might have migrated there and influenced their religions, myths and legends. Sometimes the indo-europen tribes would mix with the inhabitans of the lands they migrated to but sometimes they merely just conquered it and ruled the original populace and only influencing their culture and religion and not their genetic make up so much, this they did in for example india and iran and might have done in other places such as north america and japan. Look up the Mal'ta boy if you are interested.
Damn, it's wild hearing how the U.K. actually locked down. In my state, the governor issued the lockdown order, and absolutely no one obeyed or enforced it. We ended up fine, but it's funny to me that the cops could actually stop you from traveling if you weren't deemed "essential."
1:03:12 -- if you've ever heard the names Genbu, Seiryuu, Suzaku, Byakko, those are the Japanese names for those deities. Genbu is a turtle (sometimes a dragon-like turtle), Seiryuu is a dragon, Suzaku is a firebird (not the same as a phoenix, and Asian and European phoenixes are already different), Byakko is a white tiger. These come up in a lot of anime, etc., both as gods (Fushigi Yugi, Tsukino Empire), and as names for characters (e.g. one of the main characters in Code Geass is Suzaku, and his father's name is Genbu).
Also, if you've ever seen an anime character with the name Kusanagi (e.g. in Ghost in the Shell), that name comes from the sword that Susano'o got out of the dragon after killing it.
This podcast is now also available on Spotify, iTunes and Stitcher! You can find them at the links below:
Spotify - open.spotify.com/episode/0uXwusVOJB6tHStHmBmTvi
iTunes - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/here-be-dragons/id1514656609?i=1000475338133
Stitcher - www.stitcher.com/podcast/mythillogical-podcast/e/76743007
Love your work👍🏻👍🏻
Great video, looking forward to your podcast on the floods. You guys should do something in regards to the Greek Eleusinian Mysteries!
Okay, I am sorry, but I would like to read a thesis about how those old myths still influence the stories we tell today. I this case they may used my little pony but I would expect similar parallels can be drawn to other shows/movies.
What disappoints me about my own mythical background is that there does not seem to be any Dragons in finnish folk-lore. The word for them "lohikäärme" means "salmon-snake" literally, and I do not think it is of very old origins. There is another word that is said to represent something like a dragon or a wyrm "Lapalievo", which soounds as a word very much liek the pictures of those sea-serpents what you have here. The word is likely either old Laplander or Savonian dialect origins, and may be older, but there are no stories attached to the word, unfortunately. So basicly, there is no connection left to any existing stories of dragons in our myth. Very disappointing indeed. :(
How fascinating! I would love to learn more about you guys. I'm a math professor at a community college in the U.S. and, I dare say, I work with a number of people who had the great misfortune (?) to earn their Ph.Ds AFTER universities began pulling back on awarding tenure. It sounds, from your remarks in the opening discussion, that Charles and Crofty fall into that category. Could you make a semi-biographical vid about your sad (?) stories which may have been tragic for you, but was a boon for your subscribers? I have just now discovered you (my incredibly lucky Sunday morning as I linger late in my nightgown); after becoming addicted to your channel within a few minutes of watching your video, I am now a subscriber and would love to hear your stories.
That's a great looking dragon there on the cover art. 👍
you should check out the book The Old Enemy. He goes into a lot of detail related to the evolution of the dragon/primordial water deity and it's relationship to the origin of the modern concept of satan.
Well I hadn't heard of oarfish before.. Now I am a full believer in monster sea-serpents
Two videos in a week? You're spoiling us!
This was absolutely fascinating! GREAT first ep for the podcast.
Is this available elsewhere than on YT?
It will be in the next few days. Will update soon.
What about Perseus? Akin to Hercules. Who both defeat the Hydra. Perseus with the head of the Gorgon ; Hercules with a sword and torch to cauterize the severed necks. HYDRA a multi-headed Dragon. One Chinese Emperor said to be half dragon/ human hybrid. Hercules receives his power from her milk but primarily from his father Zeus. Slice off a head ; it will grow two back. Komodo dragons ; soldiers of Grand Dragons , equipped with Venom. Shoots eagle with bow AND arrow dipped in blood of Hydra as well as Lagon. Then there's Scylla; an amphibious dragon. Hercules isn't tricked ; he kills himself for killing his wife and children after he completes tasks. I never knew Hercules had a twin brother . Thank you very interesting!! Now I have to wonder who this brother was or came to be? Ulysses, Perseus, Jason?
Been waiting for your upload lol.
Fascinating video. Stumbled across your channel randomly but defo a huge fan now. I Love dragons ^_^
🎶"My little pony, skinny and boney...."🎶
"Hey.... sit on it." - Heracles
Dismissing misinterpretation of the fossil record and dinosaurs, etc, seems odd to me. Also, there's a relationship between Griffons & their treasure and a find of beaked dinosaurs and their fossilized nests.
That has been disproven. markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2016/04/why-protoceratops-almost-certainly.html?m=1
I think it's wishful thinking to suppose ancient peoples would have the resources or inclination to extract large fossils
We extracted them in the 1800’s using hand tools so it’s entirely feasible.
@@andybeans5790 but they could build pyramids?
Griffins are of Scythian Origin and are associated with Protoceratops.
This was wonderful. Looking forward to future installments. 👍
I remember reading about Chinese peasants digging up dinosaur bones and interpreting them as dragon bones. They were ground and boiled for use in medicine.
Kind of disappointing to hear the summary dismissal of MLP. Modern media doesn't exist in a vacuum, and it's a well known fact that the core of stories appear and reappear adjusted to current cultures, so a comparison could in fact provide a very interesting perspective. Besides, it's not like the myths you guys were discussing would not have been told to children.
I big time want to second this. The Podcast starts out referencing Tolkien and from the beginning, it is clear, that this collection of Dragon-tales includes modern pop culture. So this dismissal of something more... let's say effeminate? For the lack of a better word. Compared to the Hobbit, was kind of disappointing to me.
I would have loved to read that thesis, as a matter of fact, I am very much interested in it now.
Same here. Something being seen as fun and childlike shouldn’t be a dismissal for looking closely at pop culture. Besides, it’s not like there aren’t dragons in My Little Pony.
@@muffinheretic994 "So this dismissal of something more... let's say effeminate? " i think you nailed it. i think that's why they dismissed it so. because it's a girly cartoon, therefore they don't think it deserves the same respect as D&D or Tolkien.
2hr vid about dragon mythology 👀
you my friends have earned my curiosity and subscription
44:00 Set is a storm deity too so it would be reasonable to connect his struggle with Apep as being related to that IE motif rather than developing independently and then influencing the Sumerians.
Am I the only one who immediately went out to find the Chaoskampf MLP thesis?
No, just the only one who has admitted it.
At least in Mandarin transliterated in Pinyin, 'zh' is roughly a J sound with the tongue at the back of the roof of the mouth (I forget what the technical term in linguistics is), i.e., it doesn't sound much like Z and is awkward for native English speakers to pronounce.
...but that's just being pedantic about one single detail. Quality content, quality banter and a quality channel. Cheers, lads.
Eyes of a shrimp, antlers of a deer, nose of a dog... BRAVESTARR!!!!
Take this with a grain of salt. A lot of northern Japan share a ancestry with Russia. We see this in the Ainu people in hokkaido. And I believe russia has a thunder god I cant remember his name. So you might be able to track the Japanese thunder God fighting a dragon lore coming from Russia.