COH3 3v3 Gazala L̶a̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ Bunker Grounds
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Company of Heroes 3 Nedish (US Forces, Armored) & Zulu (British Forces, Indian Artillery) & KusseKarl (British Forces, Air and Sea) vs Kyleo (Wehrmacht, Italian Coastal) & runningDuck (Afrika Korps, Armored Support) & kardsharp (Wehrmacht, Mechanized) on Gazala Landing Ground
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Playing against bunkers like that is so frustrating.. Its already very strong that you can build loads of them and they dont take up pop cap, but it really makes them OP that they can self repair. I feel like the only thing that could bring it into balance would be allowing you to actually chip away at their health and make them repair them. The fact that they can just immediately auto heal is just so dumb
There should be either increasing upkeep cost on every next bunkers or cap on their numbers. The game shouldn't be about creeping-building of bunkers.
Like none of the axis tools is OP on its own, but when you add Static Defence of Bunkers+ Shit Ton of Artillery (Obice, Arty officers, Nebel, Wespe)+ DAK with Tanks Spam, Alles don't stand much chance. They're spread too thin and no matter what they do they will lack in something.
well, thankfully the game is not about that. Coastal is considered a fairly weak battle group, and massing bunkers can be easily countered. I can't remember ever seeing the 17-pounders used against the bunkers, which outrange all axis tanks and axis AT bunker cant return fire... This is just one example. Also, never did the allies swing wide around the flanks, and they continually controlled tanks into AT bunker range.... The bunkers cant move. Once you know their arc a simple grant + USF tank push would have annihilated the P3s and subsequently destroyed all the bunkers. Humongous missplay by allies has nothing to due with the coastal spam balance.
Thanks for the cast, Yeah the issue is those bunkers really do need some sort of popcap. We would constantly knock 2-3 out then come back and they would just rebuild them, nothing you can do against this type of strat especially with the Arty officer and Arty Bunker that just zones off a large portion of the VP.
This is very annoying, the game should not have so many almost free bunkers with such a long at range, and fire artillery that destroys units and tech at the same time. The allies cannot answer this in any way, it simply cannot be countered
I ain't a skilled player by any means, so can't comment of the balance of those damn bunkers, but damn indeed. That battlegroup can seem so oppressive at times. Really feels like it limits the cards available to you between the anti-tank Maginot Line and the arty officer.
The allies I feel made a mistake of focusing mid too much and just letting the coastal player hit critical mass, the far left of the map felt completely ignored after early game. The axis on the other hand looked to be better coordinated with their efforts especially with those PIII's.
On the topic of balancing coastal bunkers maybe wehr bunkers need to have a manpower cost increase since its so cheap to just throw one down even without the cost decrease, and the AT bunker needs to have normal pak40 range. Maybe slightly nerf the auto repair speed to make it less place and forget and get rid of the silly self building bunkers.
With my personal experience with and against coastal its never been the bunkers its the get out of jail free card bunker artillery overwatch and the artillery officer completely denying the enemy a frontline for FREE that is usually the issue. Most of the time I don't see costal players build bunkers except to cheese overwatch and artillery officer and when they do build bunkers they normally open themselves up to getting double teamed by anyone who knows what they are doing.
I agree, the funny artillery wizard is what makes coastal feel so oppressive to play against. Coastal spammers will tell you that AT guns hard counter it, but they will die within 4 seconds if left in the magic arty ring.
I agree bunker spam is sure annoying and hard to deal with as much as ranger spams so it may need a little balancing but american player should try to flank just like DAK's P3s on either of the sides also while doing it he could consider building some sherman dozers to deal with bunkers and infantry instead of just building hellcats. That being said it was entertaining match, well played to all players and thanks for the cast.
The size of le funny magic arty officer ring once vetted up is seriously over the top and unfun to play against. I say that as an axis main
And people thought coh2 brits sim city was bad
Allied loiter! No damage.
Axis loiter! Everything dies 😂
CoH balance at its finest
The Brit loiter is so bad. Its really not worth going for. Better to spend munis on something else. Considering it misses like 90% of the time, i think the damage should be higher when it lands
bunker maxxing 🏠🗿🏠
p3 maxxing 🦼🗿🦼
Allies loiter needs a fix. Air loiters shouldn’t miss ever for muni costs that it chews up.
The auto repair bunkers, that’s stupid op with no pop cap and they out range everything.
Hi, runningDuck here.
First of all, thanks for casting, much appreciated. Just some comments from my side, since i am very invested into the game - sorry for the wall of text, but lots to say 🙂
1. Gazala is by far the top tier map for this, super open ground, clear line of sights, relatively safe and easy to defend fuel to be able to get those bunkers and p3s out. It is way more difficult to do on any other map in the current pool.
2. The Bunkercreep grows stronger over time. If that first Medic Bunker and initial position which survived on 5% gets destroyed, the dynamic changes a lot, lots of early investment down the drain. The longer it goes on the nastier it gets. Early AT is a big problem also in that build since coastals do not have Fausts and the AT Gun is skipped often. Also in the early stages, satchels can do a lot of work to kill a bunker.
3. Indian Arty with double Bishop can keep it contained and cause heavy problems to the Bunkerline. There is a reason i wait for the hole to open in their lines and kill that Bishop with the first P3s asap. The only answer the Bunker Player has to the Bishops on his own is to try and hit it with Nebels, if those Bishops dont die, the bunkers might get widdled down over time.
4. I can understand the US players choice to go for armored, if the numbers of Hellcats grows its a solid counter to the P3s, the longer the game went, i had to scout out more and more where those hellcats are and it was more difficult to find the opening for the P3 attack. P3s are very much similar to Stuart / Chaffee spam, once it gets out of hand it is very difficult to get it back under control.
5. The biggest error on the allied side imo was the lack of any sort of cashes. In high rank teamgames it is the META to have a Brit going for Air and Sea and spam those juicy cheap cashes everywhere and anywhere and it is incredibly hard for Axis to keep up with the increased income, even if the map is in a 50% 50% split. That then also helps with cleaning out the bunkers with Naval Bombardment, Recon Loiter, Airburst Call in, Basearty etc.
Overall i think it is difficult to make a balance statement out of a teamgame, i do not think that you can balance COH3 around teamgames, simply due to the fact how the BG system works - in a 1v1 you will have to pick 1 BG, giving your opponent the intel on what you are capable to do, and locking out some things. In a teamgame BGs and factions can be build very complementary and one player can fill the lacking roles for the other one, and to my personal experience on the high ranked teamgames often the better team simply wins. That includes complementary builds, fighting together, playing the map as a team, understand what the others of your team struggle with, react to quick shifts of the opposing team and so on.
either way, it's still cheasy and boring to play against - especially on this map
@@SheepnerdProduction More boring to play against than wirbel jaeger spam, or mass grants that you see literally every single game?
Funny, you don't address the pop cap issue that tightrope talks about at the end of this video and instead focus on counters. Do you think it's balanced that AT bunkers cost 0 pop but 17 pounders cost pop?
I did adress it in my original comment, but to repeat what I said there: bunker spam is fairly easy to counter with some basic coordination between players. By giving bunkers a manpower cost you'd nerf a already lackluster build.
If they were given a pop cap, would you be alright with veterancy on bunkers too? Since the emplacement that costs population cap has that.
@@litensliten yes :)
A prime example of why bunkers with no pop cap is utterly poor for gameplay
I think armored BG is probably the worst choice the US player could’ve gone for in hindsight, you just don’t have enough tools to deal with the bunkers and Hellcats still don’t trade very well with panzer 3s
Yeah it made the hellcats cheaper but didn't do much else. I can't remember if he used seek and destroy.
Thanks for casting the game!
To elaborate a bit on the strat of the game from the Axis POV. The entire dynamic between me and Duck's build is that when wehr starts massing bunkers it usually results in a overinvestment into indirect fire tools like Bishops or Artillery emplacements. Both of which are prime targets for a P3 push. These opponents didn't really fall for that and instead went with the true counter, which is mass AT guns and mobile AT like Hellcats. Fortunately they did not use caches and have too many players with the more powerful call ins meaning they still struggled to clear the bunker lines out.
power wise, as frustrating as mass bunkers is to play against they really are not very effective against opponents who knows what they are doing. a combined mass grant+hellcat push on the west would have been nigh on impossible to stop before Duck gets enough P3's, all upgrades and AT loiter to punish it. If you were to add a population cost to bunkers it would cripple a fairly weak build due to the manpower income decrease.
I'm sure I will have some people disagreeing with me here, so I do suggest you try to reach anywhere close to high rating using bunker spam and it'll become very apparent how fragile this build is in practice.
also: my Name's Kylen, not Kyleo as in the description :)
yea imo indian artillery not the best counter for bunkers, even though you'd think with the bl and the improved arty suggests it would be a good idea. I've found a lot more success with the armored battlegroup, you get artillery loiter, and also improved armor vet gain (boosting bishops), and a decent aa/anti-infantry option. even the early vet for the dingo can slow down the early game bunker rush
Funny, you don't address the pop cap issue that tightrope talks about at the end of this video and instead focus on counters. Do you think it's balanced that AT bunkers cost 0 pop but 17 pounders cost pop?
@FretlessTree I've actually addressed that at the end of the second paragraph. So I'm not sure what you are referring to?
Looked like a 2 vs 3 😂 As Usf, if u go armored bg, build only ez8 and go ISC or maybe ASC.
In this match Airborne bg was needed
I don't feel like adding population would do much to reduce the power level of bunkers - Kylen is sitting below 50 pop most of the game. Even if the bunkers were 5 pop each (which would be way too high imo) Kylen's build still would have worked
Population cost with the associated drain in manpower income.
@@tightropegaming ok but what should upkeep be set to? Giving them the same as an mg feels a bit much and that's only 4.
As soon as they saw that first bunker they needed to prioritize it or the nightmare will never stop. Also saw no AT grenades on the P3 train until the 11th hour. Could have helped.
Nah when the panzer storm is enabled they are immune to engine crits. I recall at least 1 instance of an AT nade going off during a storm and it doing nothing in this game.
Thank you so much for your regular casts ❤
This game has a serious problem with abandoning its roots and going for max upgrades. COH2 relies on skill and vet to get the most out of your units. This game is all about maxing out your battlegroup and upgrades. Very cheesy. How do you know if you are fighting a Panzer 3.1 or a Panzer 3.9x ULTRA most of the time. Makes it very difficult to gauge unit performance. Just using that as an example but its the same for all 4 factions.
You can click on the enemy tank and check its health to know if it is upgraded. Tungsten rounds have a different tracer.
I do partially agree with you about them making upgrades more of a difference late game instead of trying to outplay your opponent though.
@@tightropegaming yes, that's precisely my point. The tracer thing makes sense (and I think the barrel gets longer) but you can't normally expect people to click on every unit and memorize damage values along with health. I guess in a sense that is a skill, but a lot of it is pretty hidden, like whether or not someone has manpower reductions. I think generally upgrades should either be abilities/utility or something that is visible. Auto repairing vehicles, free manpower, etc could maybe even be change to timed abilities, even if they remain free.
Don't get me wrong, though, I do like the idea of Sherman upgun and Armored skirts type of upgrades, it's just that there are a lot of other things that are too prevalent that almost force you to max out or spam something
this was a great game !
Dam man cant believe coh3 is still this bad 😢😓💔 i cant force my self to watch this for longer then 10 mins
Then stop watching Coh3 content, all of your last comments are on Coh3 videos