Your entire argument about determinism is false, we are watching the events of Naboo because that happened to be the mission in which, after traveling to a nearby planet a Jedi Master found the chosen one. It's not deterministic, the chosen one would have been discovered by some Jedi doing some mission that lead them to the place where the chosen one was at some point around this time, it could have been a different Jedi, a different mission, whatever. This is clearly NOT deterministic. We all know that Jedi can see the future but that the future can change, we also know that Jedi can get "feelings" of unease or of belonging or get a particular feeling from an individual. Qui Gon Jinn feels his way through life with the force, it clearly gave him the impression that young Anakin was important and to let the sequence of events play out, which makes his decision to stay a few more days and trust Anakin in the pod races make a lot more sense, and to give up on any other plans like getting a pilot or finding the part in another shop because he feels, from the force, that he should follow the path he is on. This all makes perfect sense and does not require determinism at all. The rest of your arguments make a lot of sense and I've enjoyed the video so far, but you keep going back to this deterministic universe nonsense and all because you believe that finding the one was like a super duper coincidence, the only coincidence is that the mission on Naboo is historically important, and so is finding the chosen one so for those two things to be tied together is somehow unfathomable. But when you think about it what mission would Jedi ever be sent on that wouldn't be important? And sooner or later a Jedi would find themselves on the same planet as the chosen one, I don't see why this couldn't be while they are a very important mission.
@@tidbit1877 Unfortunately wrong. The mission to Naboo is equally, if not more important to the overall story given that it was the first stage in Palpatine’s design to overthrow the Republic. That’s arguably the A plot, whereas finding Anakin and his contributions are the B plot. And neither of them have anything to do with each other until the universe itself wills it into place
Fun fact: The guy who says "I think I deserve a public apology from George Lucas" is Rob Walker, brother of Doug Walker, who is also known as The Nostalgia Critic.
Lmfao just got to this part in the video and I can only hear kreia’s voice 😂😂 like that whole point is the same conclusion she came too. Kreia and sheev talks would get along
*The Star Wars Original Trilogy:* When you have a vision, but barely the resources and leeway to bring it to life. *The Star Wars Prequel Trilogy:* When you have a vision, but too much leeway and resources to do what you want. *The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy:* When you have no vision, no plan, but unlimited resources, and decide to play mad libs with it.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf If that was the plan it would not have gotten so much hate BUT the fact that they choose to switch up directors mid way AND then proceed to choose the two worse possible person to do execute the plan
Alright, I also feel old now... I watched this movie in a theater that had a full service bar and waitstaff to bring booze and food to the viewers..... (admittedly drinking tequila throughout the film wasn't exactly the brightest of ideas, but it was FUN!!!).......
I was 4 days old when TPM released. 25 now. I actually have an original film reel from the movie, it’s the moment when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon jump down from the bridge to free the Queen and her entourage from the TF droids escorting them to a processing center.
@@normalgraham Well, it's been proven that they made up most story elements as they went along (from directors interviews). Only focus was "make it feminist and diverse nad put 'member berries in it". That's not what I'd call vision.
The Sith tend to enact *their* will on the Force, not the other way around. The Jedi getting wiped out, or Anakin turning to the Dark Side, I don't think those are the will of the Force. That's the Sith imposing their *own* will. And the Force does what it can to fight back. I think it's one of those soft deterministic things where this thing is what the Force *wants* to happen, but there's enough room where some particularly devious beings can say "No, *I* want *this* to happen" and make *that* happen instead. The Force isn't infallible, which, I think, is proven by the fact that the Dark Side even exists. A corruption *in* the Force, perhaps even a sickness, which allows those who use it to undermine the will of the Force itself. I might be talking in circles here, but it makes sense to *me,* at least. And, admittedly, I don't remember them ever spelling that out in the movie.
I think people tend to mistake the "will of the Force" with inhibiting "free will". It doesn't work that way. Like you said, the Sith bend the Force to their will, abusing its power, and dominating it. The Force can only fight back through the subtle influence of living beings, but it cannot control those beings.
A good way that I conceptualize the “Will of the Force” is that the Force is like a river, and its “will” is the flowing of that river. A Jedi simply floats upon the surface, letting the Force guide them as it wishes. Whereas a Sith diverts the river, builds a dam, or otherwise impedes the natural flow of the river. The force is removed from its “will” but can still flow in some way
Child of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
I always assumed that when we are shown they have little portable re-breather things to swim underwater that it served as an explanation as to how they survived the gas. They didn't have to hold their breath and they could have been in there for quite a long time before Nute says "They must be dead by now".
I assumed it was just a slowing your bodily functions to hold your breath longer. People do that without the force, but having superpowers would probably make it so they could hold it even longer.
I think the earlier scene is just "oh here they're badass for holding their breath and the poison gas doesn't bother them" and the later scene is "woah they've got these cool gadgets for every occasion that they put on their face" and that's as far as the thought goes lol Just like "hey rapid-speed escape is cool" and then "can't catch up to Quigon and the forcefields, that's dramatic", and don't ask questions
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zfthe force speed complaint is dumb because we aren’t presented with how it works if it takes a lot of energy or concentration it’s quite easy to explain away after a long fight with a superior opponent draining Obi-wan who is anxious and stressed after the force fields close while we see Qui Gon much more composed and meditating. If it doesn’t require a lot of concentration or focus it can be explained that we already see Obi-Wan stop suddenly while running before hitting the shield so he’d be worried that if he were going so fast when the fields close he won’t have time to stop before running into one or running past Maul and Qui Gon. We just don’t know enough about how it works, as we only see it for a second, therefore it’s pure speculation to say when and where it could or couldn’t be applied when the two scenarios are so vastly different.
One thing that people tend to ignore about the “Chosen One” prophecy is that even in the movies people think that Anakin is a likely candidate but not a guarantee. For all the characters know, they put their trust in the wrong person. Remember Obi-Wan’s speech as Anakin burns, he says what Anakin was supposed to do as the Chosen One. He believed that Anakin WAS the Chosen One, but in that moment he is confronted that he could’ve been wrong. After that point he goes into hiding until another “Chosen One” could appear. WE know that Anakin will eventually defeat the Emperor, but no one in universe knows for certain
@@onemoreminute0543 The problem tho is that the movies never make it explicit if the Jedi simply assumed another "Chosen One" would appear or if they were simply planning for something else and have completely given up on the prophecy.
@@vaggos2003 I would say that the movies implicitly tell us that they've given up on the prophecy, when you watch the OT through the lens of the PT. The famous "That boy is our last hope - No, there is another" exchange tells me this because if they did still believe in the prophecy of the Chosen ONE, then there wouldn't be another backup option in case Luke fails. Across the entire original 6-film saga, arguably only Qui-Gon was fully convicted in the idea of the Chosen One and that Anakin would fulfill it. Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't believe as strongly in the prophecy as him and would have naturally given up on it after Anakin fell to evil.
If you really pay attention, you can see that even back in The Return of The Jedi, many of the problems that have plagued Star Wars, were already there
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zfRLM does a pretty bad job reviewing the prequels tbh. It’s entertaining but not a very coherent media analysis, it’s plagued by issues of projecting what he wants from the movie versus what’s in it and while offering an alternative scene or story line may show how the prequels could have been written better it’s not a critique of what the prequels are.
Agreed. While I absolutely despise the last minute decision of Chancellor Dew It somehow returning like everyone else, the decision to make Leia Luke's sister was also changed from the original vision at the last minute, leading to Luke and Leia kissing in Ep 4 or 5 seem a bit inappropriate :D
The critique about how Nute Gunray dealt with the Jedi is not very good for these reasons: 1. It's established that Nute Gunray has never dealt with a Jedi Knight before 2. It's also established that he is not very intelligent(not a complete idiot but not enough to know the Jedi would survive the gas room in the short amount of time). Essentially expecting the Jedi to die in the time period that would be normal for a human to die of that gas. 3. The time that it took to send the droids down to the room is not 100% known. You said "like 40seconds" however it could have been 3 -10 minutes. Only elite level athletes would be able to hold their breath for 10 minutes and that is with controlled environments and no extra movement. Again Nute Gunray failed in his plan because he underestimated how long the Jedi could last in the room and had no reason to think he should leave them in there for hours. That is only something the audience would expect because they know about how Jedi operate.
@@thibaldus3 Yes and nothing about Gunray's choices here are understandable. Quigon refers to the trade federation as cowards but Gunray still feels the need to open the door and let the jedi out when he could easily leave the door closed. The movie never refers to Gunray as an idiot, its just the writing that is idiotic
@@dancingvalkyrie Nope. Additionally to all the reasons posted above, as a "coward", Nute Gunray wanted to check if the Jedi were dead (to aleviate his fear). Fear and impulsivity doesn't push you to make the most strategical decisions.
What Plinkett means when he says “there’s no protagonist” he means that there is no character with a real character arc. When we follow Qui-Gon, he is a mostly static character throughout
It took me a long time to realize that Palpatine *wasn't* clairvoyant like he was claiming to be in Return of the Jedi, liar that he is. After I realized this, a lot of his actions in the Prequels make more sense, especially with the Sith's 'power for power's sake' philosophy. He's got a lot of balls in the air at once, but plays the long game well and is really good at seizing opportunities when they come his way.
The fact that Palpatine is so good at adapting as to appear clairvoyant is spectacular. Though I wish we could’ve seen Palpatine actually acknowledge when his plans go awry
That's what makes him so dangerous to the Republic and the Jedi. He's the first Sith ever who realized that the Republic could be turned against itself and he exploited that to the fullest. He doesn't need to be clairvoyant, he has a thousand contingencies in place for every event and often sets events up in a way that either outcome ends up being beneficial to him. Episode 1 shows this beautifully with the Queen's escape. Although Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan could have potentially posed a vital threat to his scheme to overthrow Valorum, he ends up utilizing Amidala's political inexperience to make it come to fruition anyway. The bigger thorn in his foot probably was that Maul failed at killing the Queen and revealing the continued existence of the Sith to the Jedi Order by allowing Qui-Gon to live and tell the tale, but he also solved that by setting Maul against two opponents who had beaten him once before. Once again, Palpatine wins either way. Either Maul dies and the Jedi are lured into a false of security, or Maul wins and the retaking of Naboo fails, further destabilizing the Republic leadership. And it's very much carried over from the OT. Palpatine's plan to lure the Rebels into a trap posed ostensibly next to no risk to him; he made the Death Star a target the Rebels could not possibly ignore and he always had a backup plan for everything, except Vader and Luke joining forces to fight him, something he could not have forseen.
I don't think Sidious is fully clairvoyant, but he _wants to be._ OT makes several allusions to future-vision and its pitfalls. Yoda chastises Anakin's memory over it: "Always did his mind wander, _iNtO ThE fUTurE!_ . . . Never on WHERE. HE. WAS. WHAT HE WAS DOING. Hm?" And this is pointedly compared with Sidious in 'Jedi in his be-all response emphatic response to _"He_ will come to _me?"_ "... I HAVE FORSEEN IT." No further argument needed. And later when Vader mentions Luke is on Endor "I have felt him", Sidious is somewhat disturbed, "Strange that I have not." Finally Luke pegs his flaw as his over-confidence. To be it's strongly implied that Sidious is obsessed with controlling the future. Not just power for its own sake, but specifically control over the webs of time. But because of his obsessing over all the personalities and power-dynamics and motivations, as well as scattered, incomplete visions of the future to guide him, he completely forgot that Endor has a local population of Ewok tribes who care little for politics and power. The Ewoks being there, right under his nose, is what gets the Rebels in the door where Sidious thought it was a perfect setup. Stupid as that looks in the actual fight choreography of them hitting troopers with sticks. He's not a perfect clairvoyant, he's more the representation of what happens when people obsess over future potentialities and ambition, instead of being a good person in the here and now.
The reason it took you a long time to realize this is that his clairvoyance or lack thereof is never discussed... except by Palpatine who says he is, and the concept itself by the Jedi who claim that they are. So the idea Palpatine wasn't meant to be a magical, clairvoyant mastermind actually isn't supported by the movies.
1:18:57 I think it’s important to acknowledge that when that majority of actors in a film are wooden, the fault typically relies more on the director than the actors
Yeah I firmly believe all the terrible line deliveries aren’t the actors fault in this movie, even Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor kinda sucked in this and they’re fantastic otherwise, same with Natalie Portman she’s usually a good actress in good movies MCU aside lmao
Also, something interesting, actors in this trilogy get infinitely better in follow-ups if they ever appear in them. I think Lucas's style took getting used to, but once they did, they were able to act more naturally
I'm pretty sure Nute Gunray is SUPPOSED to be an idiot. Not a strategist. He's so greedy that he uses an army of weak and cheaply constructed droids. Palpatine is suposed to be the genius.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf I was pretty sure the main reason he uses Battle Droids (or those specific ones) is because they are the cheapest possible army. (it would explain how they were beaten so easily. get what you fucking pay for.
Obiwan and Quigon going down separately doesn't double the chances of them being caught, it reduces the chances of them both being caught at the same time -- which is the priority when their mission is to reach the Queen at any cost. It's not a ghost mission, the trade federation already knows they're there. All that matters is that at least one of them makes it. They did the smartest possible thing for their mission!
Exactly. I can't believe people complained about that, I always thought it was the obvious thing to do. Even if they had been dropped off super far apart, they are both competent Jedi and they know they are trying to get to the capitol. If they hadn't been dropped off close together, they would have just met up again at the capitol. Qui-gon trusts obi wan, in his mind obi wan is already ready to be a knight.
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
I disagree that "the will of the force" being the reason for Qui-Gon meeting Anakin means that the entire universe is deterministic. It's entirely possible (and far more likely) that this instance was only what Qui-Gon said: their meeting was from the will of the force. It doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is because of the will of the force, but that their meeting was an exception and that the force "had" to intervene and allow this to happen. This video is really great but I wish you considered this more so that you wouldn't fall into the trap of having so many of your points after around 50% through the video rely on this assumption.
i also feel like he took it a bit too far into that direction. the chosen one thing can be a bit wacky dependimg on how literal you take it, but that aside and speaking more broadly, my perception has always been that the force has a "will" in a sense, and sometimes things will happen to try to nudge the galaxy back to its natural balance. Anakin being born for example. But not everything being set in stone. stuff can go wrong, and dark siders especially can mess stuff up by trying to impose their own will over natural balance. His is certainly one of the interpretations you can go with, but i found it a bit disappointing no other perspectives were mentioned and that it was pretty much exclusively taken that literally.
Yeah I also thought that he went way too much into that. The force having a will doesn't really mean it's sentient on the same level as a human and decides literally everything that happens ever.
@@Upsedriss " But not everything being set in stone. stuff can go wrong, and dark siders especially can mess stuff up by trying to impose their own will over natural balance. " Acc. to the notion that this "prophecy" could've been misread and instead meant doom, then the "dark side" can apparently steer events just as much.
I think it's pointless to attempt any thorough analysis of this, considering that that whole plotline revolves around the premise of "they run into the kid jesus and the only dealer with the parts after just having decided to check out 'one of the dealers' and then suddenly that becomes the only option they have in the whole vast city" and that's too absurd to make any further statements about odds or how this universe works (naturally as well as supernaturally) whatever? It mainly just runs on Narrativium, and sometimes that's attributed to the acknowledged magic force in this universe, simple as that lol
I think he overdosed on the whole "Will of the force", it's no where near as bad as he confirms it to be and his application of it had several flaws and misunderstandings, that he assumed were universal truths, and basically his criticisms were more a strawman than anything, due to the undefined nature, scope, etc, that is the "Will of the force".
I'm ngl still feel physical pain every time I hear the "George Lucas y'knowd our childhood" song. With people then claiming that documentary is even remotely nuanced and/or balanced in terms of bashing George.
They're not wrong though, George was always a creative hack and a business man before anything else. The people that dickride George nowadays and treat every half-assed thought he makes as gospel is way more pathetic than any of the prequel backlash.
@@nagger8216 Business man before anything else?? Oh you do NOT know George Lucas as well as you believe Edit: Sure I agree some people worship him too much but this is still untrue and kinda insulting…even if unintentionally
@@nagger8216He was not even remotely that bad. The dude had vision and creativity, but was far from perfect. If he was a hacky businessman, all of the movies would have been as bad as the sequels.
It's mentioned in a book called How Star Wars conquered the universe during a conversation between Lucas and Rob Coleman that R2 is the narrator of the saga recounting the story to a keeper of the journal of the Whills several centuries after the events of the films. Lucas basically took the idea that he used on A New Hope of the story being told from the two least important characters perspective, (which he got from watching Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress) and expanded it so that it was the framing device of the entire saga. This is why you get the insanity of Anakin taking R2 to Mustafar or C-3PO getting his memories erased but not R2. My only counterpoint to your points about the force having a will is without that concept we'd never have KOTOR 2 which is my favourite piece of Star Wars media.
If the sequels followed this theme, Episode 9 would have ended with a scene about one hundred years after the rest of the film, having outlived all other characters, C3PO and R2D2 travel together on a ship to find the place of the mysterious Whills. R2D2 recounts the entire story of the Skywalker family and C3PO translates it for them, so it can be remembered for the rest of time. Honestly it would have been fantastic way to end the saga if done right.
@@thesenate1844especially with the treatment of 7-9. Apparently the idea for those films was the deconstruction of our heroes in the saga, we would have been introduced to the Whills of the force. It would’ve tied the sagas’ fatalist and destiny oriented trilogies presented in series. It would actually address the very ideas of control and free will that would make these films even more of a satisfying saga. Side note: I equally love all six films, and no it’s not nostalgia, all of them works in their own way. 😊I just wish they didn’t mistreat George’s treatment and betray the deal… it’s honestly insulting Bob Iger and Kathleen would do that to the owner of the saga, and somehow allow Rian to do whatever he wanted. Not blaming Rian for TLJ, all these problems started with Bad Robot and JJ…
So one could theoretically explain the sequel trilogy's chaotic storytelling as coming from rumors and secondhand accounts because R2 was not physically present for the majority of it.
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
I never understood the "MEEEH! Politics!" crowd. It's a few small scenes but it establishes stakes and the world. Without those scenes, you have the Sequel Trilogy...
@Tyral It’s a dumb overreaction and clearly one that didn’t take nuance. The politics themselves weren’t the problem. It’s just the character writing wasn’t there. And that was where Lucas was lacking. Had the characters been good and the issues themselves were explored, the prequels could have been special. KOTOR did the political element well with Revan and the Jedi Order staying out of Mandolorian wars and what cost that had.
@@MrShakespearefan the Sequel Trilogy is a mess of canon-defying writing, character assassination, and contrivances. It isnt "fine" by any stretch of the imagination.
@@Tyrarl People said the same thing about the prequels- the midichlorians were seen as ruining the force. There are plenty of contrivances in the prequels. Making Vader a child was seen as ruining the character. Yoda using a lightsaber was seen as character assassination. Personally I think TLJ is the best after the originals.
59:55 I kind of disagree here because even if the prophecy is talked about in the prequels, the fact that Anakin turns to the dark side and the Jedi are wiped out does bring its validity into question.
“Kid I’ve flown from side of this galaxy to the other, I’ve seen a lot strange stuff. But I’ve never seen anything to make me believe there was one all powerful force controlling everyone. There’s no mystical energy field controlling my destiny.” The ground work was already established as early as A New Hope that the force had a will and supposedly by common ear “controlled everything” or “has a destiny”
@@gorth1314I mean, if the point of the Force as part of the narrative is partially to prove Han completely wrong, then yeah, the seeds for the Force having some sway over destiny are planted
@@gorth1314 Ok but this diologue though: Luke: So it controls my actions Obi-Wan: *partially*, but it also obeys your commands Ie the force can will things by *partially controling your actions*
@@joelancon7231the Midichlorians was the answer to that. It’s a symbiotic relationship so the partiality is actually fitting. It benefits the person while the very nature of the force on a living being is, unbeknownst to the user, controlling them for the sake of the Whills.
The line was "controlling everything" not "everyone"; however yeah that's ironic, the PT seems to have run with Han's interpretation there of the energy field "controlling destinies". ESB introduced prescience and ROTJ upped that to "destiny" but still not set-in-stone prophetic destiny "determined by the will of the cosmos" - it's just something Obiwan and Palpatine kind of mentioned, not quite clear what they meant. Maybe something similar to that, or just something based on (not quite reliable) future visions or their views of what's gonna happen. Maybe that was already in line with Han's view, who knows? They don't explicitly say "the Force determines your destiny, Luke" (although of course what else could?), and then PT does go there.
I think Qui Gon's actions reflect his understanding of the will of the force rather than him just going with the flow. In his mind, he is the Force's instrument and he needs to make decisions and use his power and influence to keep Anakin near him and ensure he becomes a Jedi. He doesn't have some precognition or anything as he genuinely seems surprised when he dies at the hand of Maul. I think his notion of the Force is a lot like Calvinist/Presbyterian notions of predestination or providence, where there is a preordained set of events or that events happen for a reason, but it isn't in man's power to see the whole picture, so all a righteous person can do is behave piously and act in a way they believe is pleasing to God, or The Force in this case.
It is just Qui Gon own interpretation of the force it is not the actual definition of the force I don't get why people legit take it like the only fact about the force. I feel like the force should have multiple interpretations for every characters in Star wars if people narrow Force into something like good and bad it is just boring.
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
@@SWANSWAN-nc7ds "It is just Qui Gon own interpretation of the force it is not the actual definition of the force I don't get why people legit take it like the only fact about the force." Because Qui-Gon, by being a Jedi Master that is even able to steamroll through the Jedi Council, and by acting in a mentor role, acts as an authority on the subject. The rest of the narrative does not call him out as an unorthodox radical whose teachings would be disagreed with or viewed with suspicion. Therefore, when Qui-Gon explains something, the audience does not have reason to distrust him. He most likely speaks the truth. Otherwise, you may as well say that what the Force is is different than what Ben explained in A New Hope, or Yoda explained in The Empire Strikes Back. If you distrust _all_ sources of authority within a literary work, then you literally cannot learn about the fictional setting and follow the plot. And if you _should_ distrust a certain authority figure, but the story fails to provide reasonable cause for doubt, then that's a failing of the writer.
I think people underestimate how much hindsight helps in understanding the plot of this movie. The intentions behind palpatine and the trade federation’s actions are unclear. The movie would have benefitted from Darth Maul and Sidious having a scene where they clarify their intentions with what’s happening on Naboo.
25 years later, and we're still trying to make sense of the the prequels. There is no plot because that's defined as character change (the protagonist, namely) and I don't even think one character ever changes. There is a story, but it's with totally static characters. So I think the framework people use to analyze Star Wars is what's wrong.
Yeah I agree, people don’t realize that before the clone wars, pretty much none of plot of prequel movies made sense to anyone. I’ve seen the phantom menace like 59 times and still couldn’t fully tell you the story. Somehow, the movie is full of exposition dumps but also fails to convey its plot coherently.
@@donovan4222 Even the original movies had no plot, technically. No character ever changed. Even Vader only became aware that Emperor was using him, because he told Like with Vader present. Star Wars, like Indiana Jones, too, was just a sequence of action scenes to emulate the serials that used to be run on Saturday mornings for kids. That's why Star Wars worked, and wy they had no idea what to do for Empire or Jedi. They weren't sure it would even matter because Star Wars had to succeed first.
@@-taz- What? Not sure how you came to that conclusion, Luke, Han, Leia and obviously Vader go through pretty major character arcs and changes in the original trilogy. It’s not some super intricate plot or character study but I definitely would not reduce it down to serials for kids with no plot.
@@donovan4222 I'm not reducing it. That's what it is, and it works. Every character ended where they began, which is fine. In fact, I think that's real life. It's the idea of a plot that is artificial.
The shields with backup blast doors on the ship's hangar are clearly character development for the ship builders. They learned from their mistake after a 9 year old accidentally blew up their flag ship 😊
I’ve said for a while now that the big difference between the Prequels and the Sequels is that the Prequels were full of great ideas with terrible execution whilst the sequels were slickly made films in service of nothing (with some exceptions - more on this in a second). Nice to see that reflected at the end here. I always really appreciate your critiques. Whilst I definitely don’t agree with every opinion you’ve ever put out on Star Wars (I actually really like TLJ despite certain flaws), I can always see that your opinion, whilst sometimes different to mine, is a deeply considered and honest one. As someone who happily consumed the Plinkett reviews back in the late 00s, I also really liked your critique of his criticisms too. It was really refreshing to hear a different perspective that comes to the same general conclusion (Phantom Menace = 👎🏻 ) whilst disagreeing over the how and the why (understandable overlap not withstanding). Great channel. Please keep up the good work.
Well, speaking about possibly finding a place to stash Anakin instead of bringing him to battle in Naboo, they could have left him with Sheev. He’s the Senator for Naboo, so he has servants and an apartment in Coruscant. Padme could order him to keep the boy who had helped her get to Coruscant. Sure, it’s a bad idea to leave the Chosen One with the actual Sith Lord that was manipulating the entire conflict, but they don’t know that.
Agreed. Despite the Jedi being unaware of Palpatine's true identity as a Sith Lord, endangering a child by bringing him INTO A FIREFIGHT is equally stupid and irresponsible. The only way I would forgive this is if there was an extended scene showing Anakin sneaking off to follow Qui-Gon to the palace, they have a small argument about this mission being too dangerous, but it becomes too late to turn back at that point, giving Qui-Gon no choice but to be extra protective of both Padme AND Anakin.
@@MasterJunior93 Maybe sure, but I think people are just generally forgetting that this is a particular kind of movie, and what is generally "a warzone"TM may be treated as "adventure zone" instead. So just follow the reprimanding instructions the wise master gave you and you're cool
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
The people who saw it in theaters when they were babies grew up, and are now 20-something’s who find no fault with the prequels due to nostalgia blindness.
When you have childhood wonder minced together with jagoffs comparing this movie to r***, you tend to give it more of a pass as time goes on. It has a lot of issues, but it is fundamentally a setup for the political theatre of the Republic, and the intro to Anakin as a character. However botched that character intro is. It had a story to tell.
Giving the Plinketts and Cosmonauts the benefit of the doubt, I think the use of "taxation" by the Republic to drive the story may have been a weak choice to start the whole conflict. We don't know what to think about this taxation because we're not given details on it, and we don't know why they're taking this out on Naboo of all planets. Is Naboo a major industrial/commercial exporter? Is Naboo a popular tourist site or at least a place where the rich and elite live? Or is this decision entirely because Palpatine wanted the Trade Federation to blockade his planet to get the Chancellorship on pity? How could Palpatine get a huge faction like the Trade Federation to agree to blockade his planet? What if instead, the Trade Federation wanted to open up a whole bunch of sweatshops using slaves bought from the Hutts and the Naboo objected? Maybe the Naboo signed a contract stating they would allow the Trade Federation to make the sweatshops but did not state that slaves may be used in them. Perhaps Palpatine was directly involved in the original signing of this contract. The blockade would be put in place to try and force the Naboo to comply with the contract. The rest of the movie could then continue mostly as normal, although for bonus points you could have the Jedi and Padme's escape on a ship to grab more slaves from Tatooine, leading them to Anakin. This way, the story beats remind us of the central conflict driving the film and you remove _some_ of the coincidence factor in finding Anakin.
@@wisdommanari6701 That is not my point. My point is that the average person sees the word "taxation" and rolls their eyes. Mosquito bites can be extremely deadly if they carry malaria, but the average Westerner considers mosquitoes to be a nuisance or an annoyance. I think you can understand why if you made an action movie today where a main character is killed by a Malaria-riddled mosquito, you'd get people saying his death was lame. Much in the same way, taxation doesn't carry the same emotional weight for the average person as slavery does seeing as that issue has a lot more relevance to Western audiences. Depicting the Trade Federation as greedy slavers makes it instantly clear they're the evil faction of the movie and, as I've said, it gives us a much better path to meeting Anakin.
@@MajorTomFisher I agree, it doesn't speak to Sheev's critical faculties that he refuses to gauge a movie on its own merits (as it was originally released, and as almost everyone experienced it), rather than relying on the vast amount of Lucasarts backtracking, editorializing, novelizing, expanding, and community theorizing that settled on something that somewhat resembles a coherent plot... after a quarter-century. Barely any of the things which make TPM's plot work are present in TPM itself, and most of those that make you go, "Oooh, so that explains that, now it makes sense," were from later media that aimed to retroactively cram in context where there initially wasn't any.
38:36 While I'm going to try to avoid falling into two traps of criticism (1. Relying on external material, 2. Writing for the writers), I wanted to make a counterpoint to this section because I think it's interesting and embodies some of the reason I find these movies cool. Firstly, based off my understanding from EU materials, going through the planet's core is indeed literal! Naboo is supposed to have a dormant core interspersed with a honeycomb of caves that connects the oceans of the planet through the center. While Star Wars has never been anywhere near to hard science fiction in terms of its writing, I would consider this at least fantastically plausible. Many planets in our own solar system, including our moon and Mars, have entirely dormant, "dead" cores which have cooled from their molten temperature during the formation or our solar system. So, to me, it seems like there's the same level of adherence to physics as laser swords, which is to say, enough for a fantasy film with little focus on super-strict realism. I don't think accepting that at face value opens any major plot holes. I also just like this world-building detail, as it gives Naboo some extra character in the lore, and I think worldbuilding is the great redeeming feature of the prequels and the main aspect of their writing worth defending. While it seems kind of implausible for ocean travel to allow them to reach Theed in the time they do, it's worth noting that on our own planet commercial air travel can take you to the other side of the world in about 15 hours on a non-stop flight, taking a more circuitous route over the surface of the planet. Assuming a perfectly circular flight path over the surface, and knowing that pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter, we know that the distance travelled through the center of the Naboo from the opposite is just over 3 times shorter, which means the sub could be going at an average speed 3 times slower than a commercial airliner and reach Theed in the same length of time. Now, in our world submersibles move a full 10x+ slower than aircraft, going based off speed records, which means the gungan sub would have to move at a speed roughly 3x higher than our own undersea speed records to match that 15 hour trip. That's probably not physically possible for us, but again, it's not so mind-boggling that I'm unwilling to suspend disbelief for a space fantasy film. The distance savings will be somewhat less if they aren't on the other side of the planet, but absent another form of transport it still seems plausible that making a straight line through the inside of the planet could be their fastest option. As for the invasion, it's not clear that the ships arriving near Otah Gunga are carrying the same troops used for the occupation of Theed. But, if neither Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon know where the ships were going, it seems plausible that the Trade Federation could be landing troops on many different locations on the planet. After all, we know they are blockading the whole of Naboo, and presumably there are many settlements besides Theed where the Federation wants to establish a military presence. We also know, from later conversation between Gunray and Amidala, that the Federation is establishing concentration camps on the planet for dissidents and political leadership. Presumably, they would have done so in places outside the Capital and other population centers so they can separate people and control their movements and activities, the same way such camps have been set up in our world historically. Likewise, while the chronology hasn't been established, and I'll be making a generous assumption for the writers... Those transport ships look pretty, well, big! Maybe it didn't make sense logistically for them to land their army directly in the city, particularly given that said army would probably be at its most vulnerable when in their transports, much as amphibious landing troops are in wars on Earth. That's probably giving the writers a bit too much slack, but it just reminds me of the Gallipoli campaign in WWI, where the British tried and failed to capture Istanbul via an amphibious invasion of the Dardanelles. Anyway, I appreciate a lot of the criticisms of the prequels, but I think it's telling that Mauler and others have suggested in the past that, rather than simply being retconned out of existence, the prequels could be deserving of a remake which sorts out some of their writing and execution issues. While they are really flawed films, as a fan of the Star Wars universe I have always felt they added more than they took away, in spite of their shortcomings, because they have enough of a foundation in concept and worldbuilding to be worth redeeming. They are "bad," I guess, but creatively so in a way that is interesting and which required taking some risks. I can't say the same about most of what Disney has produced, where I've really never found much worth expanding on, with the possible exception of a character like Finn's (ex-mook turned good) being worthy of significant expansion and not being sidelined. The Prequels are George Lucas having a flawed vision of what he wanted to do with this universe, absent the gentle hand of Marcia Lucas to help him humanize the world and reign him in. The sequels are the result of a company completely unwilling to take risks pumping out a cardboard product based off of boardroom meetings and focus groups. And if there's a major negative legacy for RLM's prequel criticism, it's that they articulated what became a hegemonic point of view on these films, which undeniably impacted the creation of the sequel films through the consensus they generated. Hate politics because it's boring? Here's a film with basically no world-building which has been reset to the status quo of Episode IV. Hate "overly-elaborate" lightsaber fights? How about shitty, almost ad-libbed fight choreography with major mistakes. Don't like dialogue that is trying to be "too serious" or "edgy"? How about a film in which a character who's supposed to be a turncoat soldier to a fanatically authoritarian government is just a happy-go-lucky guy with no trust issues, with Marvel-style "quirky lighthearted" dialogue. I think it's telling that RLM, like a lot of people, were generally positive on TFA, when I viewed it even at the time as the beginning of the end which had shattered any possible foundation for interesting writing in the series. It appealed to a lot of their criticism by "getting back to basics," but that criticism of the prequels is so harsh and unqualified that making a film in line with those expectations was essentially a film that takes as few risks as possible. And frankly, I find that far more "boring" than the the at times cringe, at time stupid, but at time fascinating and the even spectacular moments one gets with the very flawed prequels.
I think that's a really good way of putting it. I grew up with the prequels, I'm in love with them, it's my favourite trilogy. I'm happy to admit they had flaws, but I don't really care. I feel like a lot of the prequel hatred is people being nostalgic for the original trilogy, and not being able to be accepting of something new and different in the series. The flaws are there, but for anybody with an open mind and an understanding that these movies will be different from the ones that came before, I think there's something to enjoy for a lot of people. The sequel trilogy was very much made with an anti prequel sentiment, and you're right in that it just made for a boring trilogy that didn't make a lot of sense, because it tried to emulate the original trilogy without ever earning it
@@icequeen52 I agree with you completely. I think it's telling that Lucasfilm created one of the earliest cinematic universes that captivated people's imaginations for several generations, and which served as a reality in which many people could craft stories, a facet which started as early as Irvin Kershner directing Empire. The fact that I grew up with Star Wars as a cultural icon for me more than 30 years after the OT, with games like KotOR I+II (and the associated comics) having genuinely standout writing is a testament of the versatility of that universe. So to me, its a shame to see its potential foreclosed on, which necessarily includes the potential to tell bad stories! You have to be willing to try something that might not work. And Disney in particular has always rubbed me the wrong way since annihilating the expanded universe with a press release, a place rich with stories that, if they were feeling lazy, they could have simply adapted! Actually, I don't know if you've heard of this already, but I've been captivated by this animated fan adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy in progress by a RUclipsr named Darth Angelus. It's very budget, and sometimes unintentionally funny for that reason, but it's also charming and, to me, showcases how strong good writing can be even when it has very little else to back it up. Even though I think some of the voices are kinda rough, and the animation is definitely a couple decades behind, it's still, in my mind, a much stronger work of art than the sequel trilogy. You might want to check it out, if you don't already know it! ruclips.net/video/CC9fYUDQ6CM/видео.htmlsi=psDgbhAN6GtFiMPz
"The sequels are the result of a company completely unwilling to take risks pumping out a cardboard product based off of boardroom meetings and focus groups." Funny how the 1 big blunder that gives tribal "sequel haters" their platform and legitimacy, TLJ, was in fact the one that "took risks" acc. to the whims of its hired auteur writer-director (with some theorizing it also included KK's self-inserts). Although the other 2 may also have just been mainly JJ's work and how he wanted to do them. "I can't say the same about most of what Disney has produced, where I've really never found much worth expanding on, with the possible exception of a character like Finn's (ex-mook turned good) being worthy of significant expansion and not being sidelined." People keep repeating these talking points, "sequels not worth expanding on" blah blah blah, just cause they've heard others type it, but there's really nothing different about it than 4-6 which did lead to huge expansions for some reason - why though? Wanna see more of the lived-in outskirts like Tatooine, well ST has comparably good locations with Jakku and the TROS ones to some extent. Wanna see background politics explained, well same here. So yeah I dunno "rather than simply being retconned out of existence, the prequels could be deserving of a remake which sorts out some of their writing and execution issues. While they are really flawed films, as a fan of the Star Wars universe I have always felt they added more than they took away, in spite of their shortcomings, because they have enough of a foundation in concept and worldbuilding to be worth redeeming. They are "bad," I guess, but creatively so in a way that is interesting and which required taking some risks." If you want to see an authentic version of the OT backstory filmed, you HAVE to retcon these movies out of existence and start from scratch. At the same time if you wanna see some kind of "better made" version of the PT's plot about the Satanic conspiracy in Space America and its prophecies with the sword-fu monks and greedy fishmen invading fairytale planets with magic plasma, you can have that remade as well - possibly even without a connection to Starwars this time. And of course some AI in the future could tweak some lines or replace the rom-plot in AotC or idk lol "And if there's a major negative legacy for RLM's prequel criticism, it's that they articulated what became a hegemonic point of view on these films, which undeniably impacted the creation of the sequel films through the consensus they generated." TFA was the most "anti-prequel" one of the three, and guess whether it's enjoyed the most uncontroversial positive acclaim lol "Hate politics because it's boring? Here's a film with basically no world-building which has been reset to the status quo of Episode IV." Except it's a more complicated situation with the New Republic - FO - Resistance that gets under-explained just like the Trade Federation and Separatist situations, whoops - ended up committing the same issue. "Hate "overly-elaborate" lightsaber fights? How about shitty, almost ad-libbed fight choreography with major mistakes." Mistakes I've seen pointed out in PT fights as well (like "aiming for the sword not the body" type stuff?) and that you need to slow down and zoom in or expertise experience to notice lol All in all they were much closer in tone and aesthetics to OT than the sword-fu of 1-3 (with the exception of Mace vs. Palpatine), however it's possible they went a bit too far in the "janky disorganized" direction, not sure. "Don't like dialogue that is trying to be "too serious" or "edgy"? How about a film in which a character who's supposed to be a turncoat soldier to a fanatically authoritarian government is just a happy-go-lucky guy with no trust issues, with Marvel-style "quirky lighthearted" dialogue." *1)* Awww people just can't stop the "selectively only remember serioues/jokey side of previous trilogy and then selectively complain about the jokey/serious side of the new one" dementia, can they? Mark Hamill, RLM repeatedly. All of them are a combination of serious and levity, start from that lucid premise and then maybe you'll have some kinda workable analysis or critique. *1a)* "Marvel" didn't start "quirky lighthearted quips banter" - there was a lot of it in the originals, at most you can say that Marvel has a certain particular style of doing that (derived from RDJ's adlibbing and Whedon, probably) which then the new trilogy was influenced by; but saying they introduced "banter quip levity" to the previously serious Starwars is just demented insanity. *2)* Finn seems to have absorbed the personality from Poe, the first person he runs into post-defection; then the way the Rey situation comes about etc. He keeps having serious moments though and the circlejerky critics keep ignoring that all the time. "I think it's telling that RLM, like a lot of people, were generally positive on TFA, when I viewed it even at the time as the beginning of the end which had shattered any possible foundation for interesting writing in the series." And how glad you were that TLJ came and provided the blunder by going against TFA, now you've got the platform to complain about the "whole trilogy" lolol "It appealed to a lot of their criticism by "getting back to basics," but that criticism of the prequels is so harsh and unqualified that making a film in line with those expectations was essentially a film that takes as few risks as possible." I mean it could've kept the style while dispensing with the more derivative plot beats or Starkiller or same-design ships etc. And RLM's criticisms themselves were dissonant and contradictory on that anyway - memberberrie bad here, "too different" bad there, hard to just simplistically "address these criticisms" lol
@@icequeen52 "The sequel trilogy was very much made with an anti prequel sentiment, " Well TLJ the "worst one" wasn't. But PT fans didn't get the memo and decided that bashing it would propel them into popularity - which it kinda did, but in a stupid way that's easy to take down lol
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf Let me rephrase: JJ Abrams is anti prequel and made TFA with anti prequel sentiment, Ryan Johnson came in with TLJ and completely wrecked established canon, so they brought back JJ to try to save the trilogy, but he couldn't think of anything for ROS besides bringing back Palpatine with the only prior setup for this plot point being in Fortnite, and the only explanation being "somehow Palpatine returned".
I personally enjoy these movies however, I feel like George Lucas had trouble streamlining his ideas, not being up that he was basically in charge of EVERYTHING. If ge had gotten some to co-write and help flush out his ideas, the prequel’s would be as beloved and acclaimed as the originals
The love for OT is mostly nostalgic. If someone were to bash them, it would be extremely easy. I still remember that scene from the first movie where Han Solo shot one of the stormtroopers and then run in their direction and that bunch who were pointing their guns suddenly started to run away from him, this is the funniest shit I have ever seen. So, if we speak fairly and objectively then of course revenge of the sith is the best movie by faaaaar
@BeansWithHam what's even funnier is that the PT's revival in popularity literally started off because of how popular the "memes" were, and most of the memes in question were just literal scenes/quotes/moments from the films not even meant to be funny. My favorite new joke is that when you watch ROTS, assume that Mace Windu already knows everything Anakin is finding out/telling him through out the film, and that Windu is just sarcastically fucking with him to keep him as uninvolved as possible. Makes a lot of the acting/plot more believable.
@@IKhanmakeWAR2 "what's even funnier is that the PT's revival in popularity literally started off because of how popular the "memes" were, and most of the memes in question were just literal scenes/quotes/moments from the films not even meant to be funny." Don't think that's the sole or even primary factor in all of this. "My favorite new joke is that when you watch ROTS, assume that Mace Windu already knows everything Anakin is finding out/telling him through out the film, and that Windu is just sarcastically fucking with him to keep him as uninvolved as possible. Makes a lot of the acting/plot more believable." No idea how that's supposed to accomplish that, idk
As someone who did grow up with the sequels, no these movies will not get love later. Only some adults love these movies. Some kids like the movies, but no one loves them. All the people my age like the prequels the most, maybe the ot (I’m an ot guy). Just look at the toy sales. No one bought them. Kids don’t like the movies becuz they’re basically soulless
True I don’t know why people think the sequels will get love later. They will not. The reason why the prequels were loved later is because they actually do have redeeming qualities, and, regardless of some of the writing flaws, they built a very interesting era of the Star Wars world that is different to the OT. In contrast, the sequels hardly built the world at all, they are factually worse in quality to the prequels and the OT, and they world they “set up” is pretty much just a worse, more soulless version of the OT world. You are right, the sequels will not be lived later, and I believe that those who say they will be are making an unwise prediction.
The Sequel Trilogy is the only trilogy I can think of where every film directly retcons and tries to course correct what the previous film did. There's no direction or vision involved in the series. It's almost as bad as Halo 4-6's retcons. Almost.
If you haven’t, you should play KOTOR 2. The main narrative deals heavily with the negative implications for the force being alive and having a will of its own that actually does a deconstruction of Star Wars in a far better manner than anything else we’ve seen.
I still don't think Plinkett is as bad as you're saying. There's plenty of legitimate points mixed in with the weird non arguments. I've rewatched them and the efap episode on ROTS. Multiple stretches of time where they just agree with him tearing into it.
Plinkett is as bad as he is saying. RLM doesn't even actually criticize the movie. He just gets mad that it is different from how he wished they would be. He is a butthurt OT fanboy who is mad that Anakin has a personality of his own instead of being a blank slate to project a childish power fantasy onto like Luke was.
@@Abcdefg-tf7cuthe irony of your comment is just so exquisite. Lol. It's literally you as well. Just mega butthurt because RLM dared to shit on these AWFUL movies.
It is funny how he calls the videos shit but a majority of the very same criticisms he levels at this movie were also present in the original Plinkett review.
@@Henskelion It's so weird how aggro he gets. The more I watch Sheev the more it seems like he takes 3 hours to basically make all of Mike's points but not as astutely or memorably. It's like... retroactive jealously is kicking in, like he's mad he didn't make that review 15 years ago or whenever it was.
I feel like a lot of your criticisms on the chosen one land on differences in philosophical beliefs about free will and such, and aren't really writing flaws.
It’s an easier-to-swallow pill if it were established that the Force doesn’t have control over everything. It cannot prevent the existence of the Sith or the birth of Palpatine, but it can control the development of some things to an extent, like the birth of Anakin. Unfortunately the movies don’t delve much into that philosophical aspect. But yeah, fate and free will can both exist in fantasy. The Lord of the Rings is another example, in which some things happen by fate and others are left to chance.
@calick7208 I like the idea that anakin was going to bring balance to the force, but it was up to him and he fell to the darkside. Ultimately his free will still brought balance to the force
@@calick7208 I wrote it in another comment already, but yeah the force DOESN'T control everything. People can go against the will of the force - it happens in this very move, the force was steering the events to make Anakin a Padawan of Qui Gon. IT wasn't what the sith wanted though and that fate was broken by the concious action of the sith to go against the will of the force
@@RancorSnp "- it happens in this very move, the force was steering the events to make Anakin a Padawan of Qui Gon." Or what if it was steering him to die and pass that baton on Obiwan. "broken by the concious action of the sith to go against the will of the force" Darth Maul certainly didn't have such conscious intentions, he seemed to just be ok with the idea of running over some kid with his car cause he was irrelevant. Some kinda "the Sith are also after this space jesus" plot never really materialized in the movie, although it got close.
Quick comment about the will of the force thing: I always viewed it as the force being an entity, not an all powerful god. It gifted Anakin the abilities of the chosen one, and WANTS him to succeed, but it does not control fate. Think of it as an organism, a collective of midi-chlorians. The force wants harmony and life, and balance, then with come along and threaten that balance. The force is a powerful entity, but does not control. So a prophecy for a chosen one refers to someone to help the will of the force.
Yeah, the will of the force is one thing - what people do with it is the other. The will of the force was for Anakin - the chosen one - to be trained by Quigon Jin, what the Sith wanted was for Qui Gon Jin to die and Anakin to side with the sith. And well, the force sure didn't get what it wanted
Well it's true that it seems to be kind of sentient but also unpersonal or something; however if Palpatine planted Anakin with magic, that would mean he was working in line with the "prophecy", being its agent or fufilling it etc., so the whole "force is good and sith upset the divine plan with their whims" reading isn't really that solid.
It's more like, well, a force. A force that desires balance in the same way that two fluids separated by a semi-permeable membrane "desire" osmosis or air "desires" to even out pressure.
Hold up I know the movies never state this opinion however the argument could be made that Anakin was meant to destroy the Jedi who grew complacent and dogmatic during the high republic era. And if that true the force want Anakin to get all those Jedis killed and thus have the Galactic Empire to reign for awhile. This wasn't stated by the movie and I am unsure if George agrees with it but the fact it could be suggest malicious intent from the Force or the Dark side.
@@horushyperion76 Well, while the movie doesn't state it itself, there IS something in that theory. Most notably in Episode 3 when Mace Windu, Obi Wan and Yoda carpool together. Mace expresses his dissatisfaction with Anakin Obi Wan defends his friend by asking "isn't he the chosen one? The one that will destroy the sith?" Mace, less than convinced replies "According to the 'prophecy'" And then Yoda says "A prophecy that misunderstood may have been" - they don't know what the prophecy actually means. They only know it will bring balance to the force, and they assume it means destruction of the sith - but Yoda is starting to doubt if that's what it actually means. Also conversation from episode 2 where is asking Yoda if they should inform the senate that Jedi are losing their ability to read the force may be relevant. Qui Gon Jin was the only remaining Jedi that follows the will of the force, that is why he was the person that found Anakin. The Force called him there and ensured his only way out is by taking Anakin with him. The only true master that could help the chosen one. But alas, the duel of fates does happen, and because Darth Vader existed before episode 1 - that fate could never happen. So Anakin brought the balance to the force according to Palatine's teachings instead. Which not the original plan, but jedi were already refusing to follow the force and growing weaker as a result so oh well, for a time the balance shifted from corrupt Jedi to sith, but Jedi needed a reset anyway and the only person that could have prevented it was killed by the sith
In all fairness about the poisoned drinks: Sending the Jedi another pair of drinks and poisoning those probably would’ve been smarter. But it’s partially in line for Gunray (hope I got his name right) to jump to a hasty action because he is frightened by the whole situation.
Crazy how like over two years ago now I had no idea anything about star wars other than seeing the movies when I was younger (I’m 21 and still haven’t even seen all of them all the way through) I watch every one of your videos really bc I just admire the amount of work and polish you put into your videos. I now also have an opinion about Star Wars it’s the most opinion of all time. Thank you Sheev.
The prequels are plagued with shocking writing and bizarre creative choices. However, the core story is incredible, the characters are iconic, and the worldbuilding paved the way for all of the best Star Wars content outside of the original trilogy. It's possible to appreciate these things whilst still acknowledging it's flaws.
The biggest problem is they are just poorly made movies. Bad acting /dialogue, bad cinematography, effects, etc. but the foundation of a good idea for a story, decent characters and world building is all there
You also have to acknowledge that nearly all of the criticism people have for them, the "shocking writing and bizarre creative choices", are wrong. They are not even close to as flawed as the hate hype back in the day made them seem. They are good movies, possibly even great movies.
Let’s be honest, the setting and battlefront games are the only reason people like the prequels. The writing and dialogue coping is too ridiculous to take seriously
@@davemac9563 No, the hate hype was ridiculous. Now people are "coping" - or rather, they are not coping by the actual definition of that word - because they realize the RLM level arguments they have for the prequels being "bad" are idiotic.
@@Arphemius I don’t even like RLM but it’s so obvious these movies aren’t well made. I like the idea behind them, but when people start calling them “misunderstood” or “masterpieces”, they’re coping. No question.
22:00 a protagonist and a main character are not the same thing. A protagonist exists to serve a function in a story. A main character just describes who the central action is focused around. The point of a protagonist is to have A CLEAR DESIRE with obstacles in the way that force the character to grow and change by the end of the story. This is storytelling 101. Luke is clearly the protagonist in a New Hope not just because the story focuses on him, but because his DESIRE is clear from the start of the film, and is the central focus of his character throughout the series. This is probably the worst part of this video because everything else is so on point, I cannot understand how one does not know what a protagonist is in the context of storytelling while participating in media criticism.
I honestly believe most people complaining about "minorities and women" in Star Wars wouldn't have cared a couple years ago if those characters had actually been written well. Leia, Padme, Ahsoka, etc. have been fan favorites and Star Wars wouldn't have gotten so big if people automatically hated these characters. Lando has been incredibly popular to the point they pulled him out for some key jangling for RoS. I remember people being super excited when the trailers made it look like Finn would go from deserting Stormtrooper to jedi in the force awakens. I don’t even remember anyone caring about the color of his skin back then. That's just what the character looked like. It's just that at this point (with all this stuff about ESG, DEI, etc.) coming out people have grown weary of it. People have been burned so much that they're reacting to it when it just looks like it may be going in that direction. These things have done more damage to the groups they claim to champion than good. It was clear Reeva would get redeemed for the same reason you could tell who the traitor in Ahsoka would be. It's because Disney cares about these checkboxes that allow them to use people as shields to write off any legitimate criticism of bad product as -ist/-phobe...
Yeah I never cared about any of these things. It's having some billion dollar corporation selling me garbage and attacking my character (using people as shields like you said) that's been pissing me off. Claiming to help these oh so poor groups while actually just exploiting them. It's knowing that if this project flops they’ll just write it off again. No criticism is valid as long as it can be dismissed as something bad.
more than that look at characters like Mara Jade, and Jaina Solo from the old lore extremely popular powerful characters, what we're seeing today is a result of honestly bad implimentations of these characters for browny points and its just not cool its not good for old fans and its not good for the people you are doing this for and all it does is breed resentment and paronoia and its a terrible state of affairs and I am sick of people pretending it isn't a problem or hiding behind these people as a shield that said these people also need to keep calm and have a cool head, but I get that after years of basically being accused of being every bad thing ever you tend to become annoyed and angry
I genuinely despise the culture war because it has led to so many bad faith actors on both sides. I’ve always sustained the belief that it doesn’t matter if a character is male or female, just write them well. Heck, I really loved arcane and that had predominantly female characters in the cast. But the problem is simply a skill issue which is caused by folks who don’t take the time to think carefully about their stories, ask the right questions and try to make them matter but I suspect these folks want nothing but validation over a first draft and planting a flag. Never how they planted the flag or the goal. Just planting the flag.
You get enough of these projects that try to use stuff like that as a shield and eventually you just start to make the mental shortcut. You start with: this movie has unusually high focus on minorities and women -> the film makers are using that as a defence -> they must have done that to pre-emptively dissuade criticism -> this probably isn't going to be very good. After years of this the voice in the back of your head just starts saying: this movie has an unusually high focus on minorities and women -> yep I've seen this before -> this probably isn't going to be very good. It's an intellectually lazy conclusion but the reason that it sticks around is because it's so often correct. It's important try and make sure that you aren't just giving in to bias but I often find it hard to blame those that do. It doesn't help when the counter is the equally as intellectually lazy refutation of you don't like these films -> you hate the Identity groups of the people who made it. I'm a little disappointed in Sheev for implying that is a such a significant part of the criticism.
@@Avarn388 It's not a skill issue it's purposeful subversion of the movie industry by activists, mostly left wing supported by big money. There are videos by these people how they subvert a company by acting professionally and as soon as they hit the critical mass they oust everyone else and try to keep themselves inside. You may hate the culture war but you won't stop it with that attitude.
The Force cannot stop the Sith from existing, but it can balance itself. When Sidious's master attempted to subvert its design, it created Anakin as a counterbalance to punish them. That it needed to do this at all instead of simply preventing the subversion to begin with indicates it is not infallible. Theoretically the Sith could have beaten fate, essentially, if Luke did not reach out to his father. It is more so leading people along rather than forcing a set conclusion. The nature of the Force's morality is a subject in and out of universe, explored most clearly by Kreia in the Knights of the Old Republic II, who sought to erase the Force because of the undue influence it has on others. Interesting subject that was tackled therein. I think Qui-Gon might have accepted the race to test Anakin/help him grow, even without the deterministic outlook. I imagine he would prefer trickery to stealing, if possible. In Legends someone somewhat let Bane's order slip, though only Yoda really grasped it, hence him being able to comment on it. In canon, unclear. Indeed, in the movie it is not really a contradiction with it not being spelled out as secret at that time. Not certain if it should really be held in favour of the film, but the hyperspace lanes are often only in one direction, though it does bring up how they managed to get close from the other side. They might have entered farther away and flown in manually. It is actually suggested the pod-racing controls are vaguely similar to the N1 controls in a way that was likely meant to allude to Luke's transferred skilled from the T-16 to the X-Wing (beyond just the "now this is" statement). Might have been the reason Qui-Gon thought he would be a good asset in the invasion, as well.
Well written post. It's so puzzling to me that these younger generation of Star Wars fans are so clueless on the nature of the Force, with many claiming to be Star Wars fans despite their clear animosity to the Force.
@@HYDRAdude I think the new canon does push it too far. Some believe that Obi-Wan managed to beat Vader in Obi-Wan, despite Vader being at his "prime", and Obi-Wan being out of practice, because the Force willed it, which would sap the tension from fights if it could act as such a force multiplier. I am not of the belief this is how it could function in Legends, usually (Oneness aside, which is a different context).
I will will always maintain that the one thing that the prequels did masterfully was World building and giving the Galaxy a sense of scale. The prequels felt so grandiose and alive versus the sequels that in spite of taking place in a massive Galaxy full of hundreds of planets and species felt so boxed in and small.
I will say this, the Force having a Will of its own led to what I would consider the greatest plot Star Wars has ever pursued and that would be Knights of the Old Republic 2: the Sith Lords.
@@AmericanImperium1776 Quin was also kind of a dickhead and a bad influence Obi-Wan, so Qui-Gon probably didn't want him around. "You blew up my ship!" "Had to be done. Besides, good Jedi aren't supposed to have attachments." "We didn't blow up *your* ship." "Well, yes, I'm not a very good Jedi."
31:00 Literally every point that is made in the opening crawl of a new hope then has a corresponding scene that illustrates and deepens those points in an engaging and memorable way... It's not the crawl itself thats the issue but that fact that idiots online try to use it to undermine the fact that the plot in episode one is difficult to follow.
I think an interesting fix for the contrivance that Qui Gon found Anakin simply by "chance" is if the jedi had been aware that there had been a vergence in the force on Tatooine (similar to how they had been aware that there was a vergence during The Acolyte) and they had yet to find the cause of it. So when fleeing Naboo, they might instead have a few options for where they would hide and Qui Gon chooses Tatooine in the hopes of killing 2 birds with one stone. This "fix" is probably flawed because I just came up with it on a whim but I think it could work. Of course the movie decided to go with "it was the will of the force" instead
I once heard the prequels described as “bad films, but good stories,” and I’m inclined to agree with that sentiment (as a broad generalization). I always really liked/enjoyed the prequels growing up, despite their many flaws. Once I was an adult, I could admit “yeah, these movies aren’t very good” but I still liked them for what they were. And I think the story at its core is solid and compelling, be it imperfectly executed. Edit to add: Wow, your review of Episode 1 aligns quite closely with my own take, especially when it comes to midi-chlorians (which are more or less just mitochondria). Also, brilliant use of Alastor!
Yeah I've read a lot of sentiment that the prequels have an excellent story in mind, but it was executed rather poorly. The Darth Plagueis novel gives even more context to the background of The Phantom Menace, which, after you read the book or listen to the excellent audiobook, makes the film seem actually quite disappointing that all of the action told in the book happening at the same time as the film are never acknowledged on screen. Darth Plagueis is never mentioned until the third film, even though nearing the end of the book, he learns that Anakin is the product of Plagueis' meddling of the Force 10 years prior to the film and was about to get his hand on the boy, until Qui-Qon just in time got him presented to the Jedi Council.
The thing about Darth Jar Jar is that according to Ahmed Best, George actually did have plans to make Jar Jar the true Phantom Menace. Obviously he'd have dropped the dumbass persona, butafter how much hate Jar Jar received, George dropped that idea.
1:38:50 "well it seems this hangar is completely exposed" tbh, they are droids, making the hangar air tight would be unnecessary cost, and would allow enemies (which are usually living beings that need oxygen) to just be there freely. however this doesn't excuse the complete lack of defense.... like you'd think they'd have turrets inside or something to defend an open hangar, but i guess since that'd stop Anakin, defending the hangar would be against the will of the force.
I do agree that it's extremely contrived that Anakin was able to fly into the hangar bays without getting picked off by vulture droids, but the lack of internal defenses in the control ship isn't that weird. The Lucrehulk Class is a converted cargo ship - it wasn't designed specifically for combat, while the Invisible Hand, which you reference as a counterpoint, was. The Lucrehulk is a big hollow donut filled to the brim with fighters, troops, munitions, and nothing else. To be fair, that's never communicated in the film, so the scene is being hard carried by the expanded lore, which has varying legitimacy depending on your perspective. However, I think it follows logically that the Trade Federation, a megacorporation, would cheap out on defenses for ships basically designed to fleece poor defenseless planets that ordinarily would not be able to mount an adequate resistance to them. You've indicated all the reasons why a fighter getting into the hangar bays wouldn't be a big problem already by describing the improbability of someone surviving the vulture droid gauntlet there to begin with. Regarding your commentary on Force determinism - this is actually the antagonist's central thesis in Knights of the Old Republic II. Kreia specifically regards the force almost as a malevolent entity that causes untold suffering for inscrutable reasons. KOTOR II came out years after Phantom Menace, I just think it's interesting that your critique lines up so closely with the one delivered in the narrative of that game. That said, Force determinism is a subject that doesn't have a hard and fast answer in universe - Anakin is the chosen one, notionally, but the implication seems to be that Star Wars doesn't follow hard determinism. The Force moves people in certain directions by giving them feelings or premonitions, but the existence of the Dark Side is an aberration. The major and central question is whether the dark side of the force ontologically corrupts people, or if the dark side exists because people corrupt the force by attempting to control it. Either interpretation completely changes the nuance of the universe, and I don't think Lucas ever clarifies that. The Legends lore has entire philosophical arguments on that track, which I feel gives a great deal more depth to the subject of the Force cults than the movies have, but that's not without controversy and is extraneous to the films.
"would cheap out on defenses for ships basically designed to fleece poor defenseless planets that ordinarily would not be able to mount an adequate resistance to them." But they were also said to be "battle hardened" and these ships were called "battleships" by the crawl. Also it's just an internal contradiction that the pilots said the "shields are too strong" AND the Stunted Slime guy says "impossible (for someone to have gotten inside), nothing can get through our shields". So the whole "lasers can't get through but ships can, pilots just hadn't thought of flying inside" argument doesn't even work here. "Anakin is the chosen one, notionally, but the implication seems to be that Star Wars doesn't follow hard determinism. The Force moves people in certain directions by giving them feelings or premonitions," The notion of this "prophecy", apparently an ancient one, coming true in one way or another, even if people are unsure what exactly it means etc., also contradicts the "always in motion the future" notion - so either prescience works in 2 ways here, dep. on the case, or it's a contradiction.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf "But they were also said to be "battle hardened" and these ships were called "battleships" by the crawl." Yes, against pirates and small governments that owed them money. They're called battleships on the basis of mass, but by the time the Clone Wars started are outgunned in almost every conceivable way. "Also it's just an internal contradiction that the pilots said the "shields are too strong" AND the Stunted Slime guy says "impossible (for someone to have gotten inside), nothing can get through our shields". So the whole "lasers can't get through but ships can, pilots just hadn't thought of flying inside" argument doesn't even work here." Fair point, I was mostly thinking about the fighter envelope. The most charitable interpretation I could give that is that they're shocked that something survived the fighter envelope to get into the shields, but that's not what the sentence literally means.
@@yopiumtrader222 "They're called battleships on the basis of mass, but by the time the Clone Wars started are outgunned in almost every conceivable way." Maybe that's how the EU did it, it wasn't in the movies though and there were no indictions for that.
I just rewatched the original trilogy so I can say the following with some confidence: 1. The decision to make the Jedi monks was a change made for the Prequels. Suddenly the Jedi are quasi-aesthetics or Buddhists and cannot have emotional attachments to other people, which the narrative justifies. I'm curious why you didn't talk about this, because in my opinion, this is the most shockingly stupid change from the Original Triolgy. The Force is supposed to be a connection between all living things, but Jedi are meant to sever their connections with others and isolate themselves in a temple on a city sized planet? It makes zero sense and also makes the Jedi look like freaks. 2. In Return, Yoda says "I am strong with the Force" and "the Force is strong in your family". Evidently, Force sensitivty was already concieved back in the Original Trilogy. So I don't accept your justification of Midichlorians. They are a redundant inclusion that serve to demystify and materialise the Force. 3. As others have mentioned, you misinterpreted the notion of the 'will of the Force'. Your conclusion that the Force is an omnipotent being that plans and controls everything does not follow from Qui-Gon's dialogue in this film. The Force desires balance, which doesnt make sense given there are two established sides to the Force. Bringing balance involves eliminating one side, which is another stupid change. I agree with a lot of your arguments in this video, but I think you're a bit eager to shit on Plinkett given you made a lot of mistakes yourself.
17:34 But also, didn’t someone from Naboo send a distress message to Padme? 1:26:18 What? Is that what people got from the OT? That the Force can be used by anyone? I thought that Force is an energy field that exists and that some people are born force sensitive and can command the Force but also the “anyone can use the force” bs came from TLJ not OT, Sheev wtf?
You have now become my favorite Star Wars reviewer … I love the prequels but even I know they’re very flawed movies but I appreciate your way of brushing aside the opinions of the fanboys and haters to come to a more balanced review
4 is pretty harsh. He says it's the middle of the PT, and no contest better than sequel trilogy by far, but that can't be true because we're already in the bottom half of the scale. The sequels can't be a 1, they aren't Jesus Franco films, so they are a 2-3, as compared to the PT ranging from 3-5? Really?
@@billjacobs521I don’t know … I agree with most of his points even though I love Lucas Star Wars. You can still like something while still criticizing it. I like that Sheev didn’t regurgitate RLM’s misconstrued points but acknowledged that there are indeed flaws in the PT … especially in TPM. That’s just me though.
I think the unfortunate truth I’m facing after listening to so much Star Wars media is that Star Wars is kinda dumb. Fun but dumb and confusing as hell.
Whenever smart ideas _are_ introduced, they're immediately painted over with broad stroke spectacle. It gets tiring after a while. ESB and ROTS in some parts, and KOTOR2 in full (plus maybe the Thrawn trilogy, I was never interested enough to read it) were the only bits of Star Wars that truly escaped this trap in my opinion. Until Andor, that is.
I think there is plenty that is deep and timeless, AND plenty that only a child would like, AND plenty that no one much likes. They’re special in that respect.
Depends on the media. Much of Star Wars is shit, but you are going to be very, very sorely disappointed if you actually consistently point that level of critical thinking at most fiction, not even just pop culture juggernauts. Hint; a lot, if not most, pieces of fiction are average at best, shit at worst. I know that's a platitude and abstract thing people sometimes say or think, but it's quite another to actually KNOW that. The average is called....average, for a reason. Making good, nevermind excellent, fiction, is really, really God damn hard.
@@AthEE_OneNah. I dunno what you classify as 'smart ideas', and I don't much care either, but in terms of pure quality, the OT are minor masterpieces that can and do stand withs one of the best fictional properties, Andor is unironically that but for TV (although perhaps to a lesser extent), and there are several EU properties that can more or less be classified as excellent as an overall package; KOTOR 1 and 2, the ROTS novelization (the closest SW has ever truly come to being 'high brow', for whatever that's worth to most), as well as things like Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Star by Star, Traitor, and a few others.
its super dumb if someone doesnt like something that happened in a fight it goes he should of just force pushed them off a cliff, should just force pull the saber and stab them
Attack of the clones is my favorite movie, watched it a million times as a child. That was my autistic time to watch the same movie multiple times as a kid
It's got a good soundtrack, Christopher Fucking Lee as an iconic villain, Jango Fett, a cool space battle midway through, lots of new vehicles, a much more realistic ground battle than anything in the OT, oh, and did I mention Christopher Fucking Lee.
@@AJadedLizard The "Attack of the Clones" half of it is cool, the Blunders on the Meadow half is something else entirely. I was obsessively rewatching it and exploring the DVD for a few years after release, trying to convince myself the whole movie was good and solid i.e. as good as the good half, then gave up lol - by the time of RotS I was disillusioned with this series and just took on a hit-and-miss perspective.
Great video. Thank you for covering the inconsistencies with R2-D2 and the narrative. I've been thinking about all those questions surrounding R2 since ROTS came out!
Stellar video man, very well thought out and put together. 👏 Mad respect for taking on the Plinkett reviews too, brave man to do that lol. I'm generally an RLM Stan, but the community truly does hold those Plinkett reviews to a ridiculously, unreasonably high standard. They're well done, influential, fun and funny reviews, not definitive facts about the issues with the prequels
I agree with most of what you say, but you are off on several key points. To the “boringness” of the title crawl… it is badly written and emphasizes the passive trade dispute. Yes, it contains the information, but easily could be fixed by starting with “The small planet of Naboo is being overrun by deadly battleships. The greedy…” That would change the emphasis. To the senate scene, it should have been MORE dry and boring like the real government. That could have been where Padme breaks her somber exterior for the first time public-ally, or where QiGone becomes so frustrated that the will of the force is being broken that he creates an outburst used to seed the Jedi as being “against democracy”. There is more, but this is a RUclips comment, not a video reply.
Yeah I get that wars start with tax and trading disputes and shit, but it’s just boring to have that be the main conflict in such expository detail of the first Star Wars movie since 1983
You don't go much into how the world of Star Wars is hard deterministic, which is kind of a problem when you build so much of your critique on it. All the prophecy says that there will be a person who brings balance to the force by destroying the sith. It's not saying that the sith will forever be gone. It doesn't say whether Sheev is the last of the sith. It doesn't even say that Anakin is the chosen one. The prophecy could have still been fullfilled even if Vader didn't kill Sheev. That chosen one could have appeared in another millenia since Sith only operate by the Rule of Two anyway. Hell, if you take any of the EU or Disney as canon the sith still exist later on in some ways. You are correct that the prophecy just kinda is too vague to mean anything and it ultimately is pointless but it seemed only there anyway to have it subverted showing that you can't rely on such a thing even if it ultimately became true at the end (if you only take George's vision into account back when he made the third film and never planned to do another movie).
The Jedi believed that Anakin was the Chosen One simply because it was their best option, especially when this super force sensitive kid shows up at the same time the Sith return. But also shows that the prophecy isn’t infallible as Anakin falls anyways. I always loved that the prophecy didn’t work out how the Council thought that it would.
31:36 not only is the title crawl attempting to convoy more information, it’s doing it in an overly complex way. Breaking it down we first hear that turmoil has engulfed the galactic republic due to the taxation of trade routes. So we’re assuming the taxation of trade routes is what is causing the Republic turmoil. So why would the Trade Federation want to resolve this matter? And what about this makes them greedy? After this we hear about the congress in the Republic endlessly debating until finally getting information on what we are immediately about to see which is that two Jedi Knights have been secretly dispatched to settle the conflict. The amount of political moving parts described to us in the crawl is much more extensive than the simply story of rebels attempting to flee a pursuing empire with plans to their ultimate Super-weapon. The crawl for the Phantom Menace can’t even accurately explain the relationship the Trade Federation and Republic have to the taxation of the trade routes. It implies that the republic is in turmoil due to the taxation, even when they themselves are the ones taxing them. So it becomes increasingly confusing the decipher what relationship the Trade Federation has to not only to the trade routes but also to the Republic itself. Obviously by my elaborate explanation you can also deduce that the plot laid out is significantly more confusing than the one in A New Hope, where the objectives of each faction are clearly laid out
I am curious to hear your thoughts about some of the various fan edits that hope to improve the prequels into something a little better. Obviously certain structural issues can't be fixed, but reincorporated some deleted scenes and cutting out a lot of the silliness can make a huge difference and make the movies a lot better in my opinion.
22:09 it’s not true that the Protagonist in a story is the character a story focuses on the most. The more “Literary” type of definition you looked for (& said you did not find) is that the protagonist is the character who *undergoes change* in the story. Obviously, not always perfectly true, especially in more modernist or Post-modern narratives. But generally, protagonist is the one who undergoes change Take for instance Ferris Bueheler’s Day Off - one could argue that Ferris is the main character. But, Ferris is not funamentally changed by the events of the film. In fact, a lot of the fun & humor of it is that Ferris remains a rapscallion by the end of it. It is actually his friend Cameron who is the protagonist, because he undergoes change. Cameron is living in the fear of his father, & is afraid to live life on his own terms & stand up for himself & be who *he* wants to be. (spoiler:) By his big fear of damaging his father’s car being realized, Cameron actually changes & is willing to take responsibility & admit what he did, & face the wrath of his father. Bueller is there to motivate this plot with Cameron & to provide most of the humor of the film, but he is not fundamentally the protagonist; he is more of a “clown” or “jester” figure (i think that’s the term for this type of character - not sure) I think in this sense, it’s fair to say Qui Gon Jin is *not* a protagonist, because he doesn’t really change much or develop as a person. Nobody does in Phantom Menace I realize I might be leaving details from Ferris Bueller out & maybe forgetting things from Phantom Menace that might be relevant. I just wanted to quickly make this point because I think it is worth considering Thanks for reading & thanks for the video!
A better way to link the droids' storylines is if in Ep3, Bail Organa took the dorids for himself, so R2 and C3PO became Leia's droids because they were Padme's droids. Giving them to Antilles makes it more of a stretch unless Antilles is Bail's only trusted captain.
Meh Antilles seems like a big guy with a significant name. In either case R2 should've kinda indirectly "belonged to Obiwan" and then joined up with the more clueless 3PO much later, that's the real backstory. The one in the movies doesn't jive, and the "wipe the memory" doesn't work other than as a sadistic gag and funny moment. Them just being given to Antilles instead of Bail keeping them isn't one of the problems here, it's everything else lol
To me the main problem with this movie is the first part before leaving Nabbo feels like we cut out every scene that isn’t needed for the story, leading to the pacing feeling like we jump from point to point. Outside of that, I love this movie
I appreciate you trying to challenge the Plinkett reviews. Critics must be open to criticism and I love listening to good ones. I don’t find your counter arguments to be convincing though. As for Palpatine’s plan: Do you honestly expect us to believe that you got all of that from watching the movie? I didn’t, and most people didn’t watching it back than. It’s not that this is some subtlety you have to figure out, it’s just presented badly. Mike’s aimless ponderings are part of the act, the argument about it being not clear isn’t. He is being Plinkett in this moment, it’s not necessarily what Mike thinks. You made a point about distinguishing that and I think you have to give Mike the benefit of the doubt that he actually figured it out. He just purposefully plays the average movie viewer who doesn’t pay attention to all details, or reads about it online after the fact. As for the opening of new hope: You don’t need the title crawl to know what is going on. I didn’t when I was 5, watching it for the first time in a language I did not understand back than(english). That’s the genius of the visual story telling and, which becomes important in the reviews, the editing.
I agree on your criticisms about the politics argument. I found it to be one of the redeeming qualities of the prequels. The parallels to the Weimar Republic was immediately clear to me. And I appreciated the bloated bureaucracy of the ‘good’ republic and it’s corruption.
"Mike’s aimless ponderings are part of the act, " You mean the parts where he mistakes the Trade Federation for a "bureaucracy handling space taxes" even though they're clearly a distinct entity with their own "royal" boss leaders etc.? Or when he says "if she signed the treaty then the crisis would be over and there'd be no need for a vote of no confidence", even though that wouldn't have ended the "crisis" at all? Well intentional or not, they are aimless ramblings, so yeah lol. Either way yes, SheevTalks does leap to conclusions here, just like Plinkett does in his own way (when he makes assumptions about what the plan is then and then points of "contradictions" in it) - "it's unclear" is the real answer.
Plinkett's reviews are 95% bs. They are some of the worst videos on the internet and that's saying something. Almost nothing they say has any substance at any point. And your lack of engagement with a movie is not the fault of a movie. It's not "badly presented" because an idiot doesn't get it. Badly presented is when it can't be gotten or is unintentionally ambiguous, something of that nature. "Insufficiently dumbed down" or "not repeated enough or said loudly enough for someone who doesn't pay attention to get it" are not valid criticisms.
After watching the portion of the video talking about the Plinkett review I decided to go back and watch it myself and I've gotta say, I think your own criticism of their review is in bad faith. I think you're interpreting things from the review that it's not really saying. For example, he doesn't say they could have poisoned the tea the Jedi did drink. He's saying if you do poison the tea they'll drink it because they aren't even being cautious. He had just pointed out they drinm the tea even as they sensed something was wrong about the situation. And he also says, "THEY'LL drink it" as in they WILL drink it. The tense alone shows you he wasn't saying they had an opportunity to poison the tea they already drink but rather that if you bring them more tea that's poisoned they'll probably drink it. Really, I think the point is about the lack of caution from the Jedi and not the failure to kill them intelligently. I think he talks about that as well but that wasn't the point in that moment.
Wow! 25 years of The Phantom Menace now! That means this movie has a fully developed frontal lobe finally!!!
Agonised neuroscientist noises
"Messa feel a woosa"
*Faints*
-Jar Jar Binks, while very drunk, 2024
Oh hell yeah! It can finally make good decisions.
Your entire argument about determinism is false, we are watching the events of Naboo because that happened to be the mission in which, after traveling to a nearby planet a Jedi Master found the chosen one. It's not deterministic, the chosen one would have been discovered by some Jedi doing some mission that lead them to the place where the chosen one was at some point around this time, it could have been a different Jedi, a different mission, whatever. This is clearly NOT deterministic. We all know that Jedi can see the future but that the future can change, we also know that Jedi can get "feelings" of unease or of belonging or get a particular feeling from an individual. Qui Gon Jinn feels his way through life with the force, it clearly gave him the impression that young Anakin was important and to let the sequence of events play out, which makes his decision to stay a few more days and trust Anakin in the pod races make a lot more sense, and to give up on any other plans like getting a pilot or finding the part in another shop because he feels, from the force, that he should follow the path he is on. This all makes perfect sense and does not require determinism at all.
The rest of your arguments make a lot of sense and I've enjoyed the video so far, but you keep going back to this deterministic universe nonsense and all because you believe that finding the one was like a super duper coincidence, the only coincidence is that the mission on Naboo is historically important, and so is finding the chosen one so for those two things to be tied together is somehow unfathomable. But when you think about it what mission would Jedi ever be sent on that wouldn't be important? And sooner or later a Jedi would find themselves on the same planet as the chosen one, I don't see why this couldn't be while they are a very important mission.
@@tidbit1877 Unfortunately wrong. The mission to Naboo is equally, if not more important to the overall story given that it was the first stage in Palpatine’s design to overthrow the Republic. That’s arguably the A plot, whereas finding Anakin and his contributions are the B plot. And neither of them have anything to do with each other until the universe itself wills it into place
Can’t wait until 25 years of Attack of the Clones so both the movie and myself will have a fully developed frontal lobe
Whoa Remnicore!! Make more content bud, I'm waiting!!!
@@prolastmedia6171 working on something that will undoubtedly be controversial right now lol
Not for long
@@gamerule18 ??????
And Revenge Of The Sith
Fun fact: The guy who says "I think I deserve a public apology from George Lucas" is Rob Walker, brother of Doug Walker, who is also known as The Nostalgia Critic.
Huh
He remembers it so YOU don't have to.
Amazing fact!
Ah woah, how did I not recognize him LOL
I mean he was a bit younger but still lol
lol wow I’ve seen his reviews and didn’t even notice that
Sheev Talks: The Force shouldn't have a will, that's so stupid
Kreia: Goooood... Very goood.
Well Kreia wanted to kill the Force itself. Plus, it doesn't. Not since Lucas made that Will o The Wisps crap
Nah Kreia would still find a way to criticize Sheev!
Influence Gained
Influence Lost
Net Light Side Shift
Dark Side Points Gained
Apathy is death.,
Lmfao just got to this part in the video and I can only hear kreia’s voice 😂😂 like that whole point is the same conclusion she came too. Kreia and sheev talks would get along
I mean, I'm pretty sure Avellone created Kreia in part because he also disliked the idea of the force having a will.
*The Star Wars Original Trilogy:* When you have a vision, but barely the resources and leeway to bring it to life.
*The Star Wars Prequel Trilogy:* When you have a vision, but too much leeway and resources to do what you want.
*The Star Wars Sequel Trilogy:* When you have no vision, no plan, but unlimited resources, and decide to play mad libs with it.
This is such a perfect summary
Plan was just to do the 4-6 plot beats with some twists/variations.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf If that was the plan it would not have gotten so much hate BUT the fact that they choose to switch up directors mid way AND then proceed to choose the two worse possible person to do execute the plan
@@dean_l33 Ruin Johnson created problems, yes.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zfRian Johnson made the best sequel movie…I’d argue Abrams trying to retcon everything in the 3rd movie was what ruined it
When you said you weren't alive yet when TPM was in theaters, I felt my joints ache.
I was a senior in highschool.
I was born the same year AoTC came out if that makes it better
Alright, I also feel old now...
I watched this movie in a theater that had a full service bar and waitstaff to bring booze and food to the viewers..... (admittedly drinking tequila throughout the film wasn't exactly the brightest of ideas, but it was FUN!!!).......
I was 4 days old when TPM released.
25 now.
I actually have an original film reel from the movie, it’s the moment when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon jump down from the bridge to free the Queen and her entourage from the TF droids escorting them to a processing center.
I was born just before the Revenge of the Sith
Despite their faults the prequels had vision behind them. A narrative throughline. The Disney sequels have none of that.
There was a vision behind the sequels: the destruction of everything that came before it so a new, ideologically "pure" Star Wars can be puked out.
There was a vision behind both trilogies, they just sucked
But at the same time even though getting a D is better than an F it’s still a D
@@Thawheedi I'd rate the prequels a bit higher than that
@@normalgraham Well, it's been proven that they made up most story elements as they went along (from directors interviews). Only focus was "make it feminist and diverse nad put 'member berries in it". That's not what I'd call vision.
The Sith tend to enact *their* will on the Force, not the other way around. The Jedi getting wiped out, or Anakin turning to the Dark Side, I don't think those are the will of the Force. That's the Sith imposing their *own* will. And the Force does what it can to fight back. I think it's one of those soft deterministic things where this thing is what the Force *wants* to happen, but there's enough room where some particularly devious beings can say "No, *I* want *this* to happen" and make *that* happen instead. The Force isn't infallible, which, I think, is proven by the fact that the Dark Side even exists. A corruption *in* the Force, perhaps even a sickness, which allows those who use it to undermine the will of the Force itself.
I might be talking in circles here, but it makes sense to *me,* at least. And, admittedly, I don't remember them ever spelling that out in the movie.
I think people tend to mistake the "will of the Force" with inhibiting "free will". It doesn't work that way. Like you said, the Sith bend the Force to their will, abusing its power, and dominating it. The Force can only fight back through the subtle influence of living beings, but it cannot control those beings.
A good way that I conceptualize the “Will of the Force” is that the Force is like a river, and its “will” is the flowing of that river. A Jedi simply floats upon the surface, letting the Force guide them as it wishes. Whereas a Sith diverts the river, builds a dam, or otherwise impedes the natural flow of the river. The force is removed from its “will” but can still flow in some way
@@donavonhoward114"You mean it controls my actions?" "Partially, but it also obeys your commands."
The Force is real. Faith is the Light Side and Doubt or the Tao is the Dark Side.
Child of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
I always assumed that when we are shown they have little portable re-breather things to swim underwater that it served as an explanation as to how they survived the gas. They didn't have to hold their breath and they could have been in there for quite a long time before Nute says "They must be dead by now".
I assumed it was just a slowing your bodily functions to hold your breath longer. People do that without the force, but having superpowers would probably make it so they could hold it even longer.
But we don't see them wearing the re-breathers when they get out of the room.
I think the earlier scene is just "oh here they're badass for holding their breath and the poison gas doesn't bother them" and the later scene is "woah they've got these cool gadgets for every occasion that they put on their face" and that's as far as the thought goes lol
Just like "hey rapid-speed escape is cool" and then "can't catch up to Quigon and the forcefields, that's dramatic", and don't ask questions
@@eugger3011 In fact, we even see Obi-Wan take a deep breath once him and Quai Gon see the gas being released against them.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zfthe force speed complaint is dumb because we aren’t presented with how it works if it takes a lot of energy or concentration it’s quite easy to explain away after a long fight with a superior opponent draining Obi-wan who is anxious and stressed after the force fields close while we see Qui Gon much more composed and meditating. If it doesn’t require a lot of concentration or focus it can be explained that we already see Obi-Wan stop suddenly while running before hitting the shield so he’d be worried that if he were going so fast when the fields close he won’t have time to stop before running into one or running past Maul and Qui Gon. We just don’t know enough about how it works, as we only see it for a second, therefore it’s pure speculation to say when and where it could or couldn’t be applied when the two scenarios are so vastly different.
One thing that people tend to ignore about the “Chosen One” prophecy is that even in the movies people think that Anakin is a likely candidate but not a guarantee. For all the characters know, they put their trust in the wrong person. Remember Obi-Wan’s speech as Anakin burns, he says what Anakin was supposed to do as the Chosen One. He believed that Anakin WAS the Chosen One, but in that moment he is confronted that he could’ve been wrong. After that point he goes into hiding until another “Chosen One” could appear.
WE know that Anakin will eventually defeat the Emperor, but no one in universe knows for certain
They seem however to be pretty certain of it and end up being proven right.
Yes, this criticism is a case of the audience assuming the characters know as much as themselves.
@@onemoreminute0543 The problem tho is that the movies never make it explicit if the Jedi simply assumed another "Chosen One" would appear or if they were simply planning for something else and have completely given up on the prophecy.
@@vaggos2003 I would say that the movies implicitly tell us that they've given up on the prophecy, when you watch the OT through the lens of the PT.
The famous "That boy is our last hope - No, there is another" exchange tells me this because if they did still believe in the prophecy of the Chosen ONE, then there wouldn't be another backup option in case Luke fails.
Across the entire original 6-film saga, arguably only Qui-Gon was fully convicted in the idea of the Chosen One and that Anakin would fulfill it. Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't believe as strongly in the prophecy as him and would have naturally given up on it after Anakin fell to evil.
@@onemoreminute0543 Interesting perspective and there does seem some to be some ground for it.
If you really pay attention, you can see that even back in The Return of The Jedi, many of the problems that have plagued Star Wars, were already there
RLM already said that.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zfRLM does a pretty bad job reviewing the prequels tbh. It’s entertaining but not a very coherent media analysis, it’s plagued by issues of projecting what he wants from the movie versus what’s in it and while offering an alternative scene or story line may show how the prequels could have been written better it’s not a critique of what the prequels are.
Agreed. While I absolutely despise the last minute decision of Chancellor Dew It somehow returning like everyone else, the decision to make Leia Luke's sister was also changed from the original vision at the last minute, leading to Luke and Leia kissing in Ep 4 or 5 seem a bit inappropriate :D
@@ihhaahhhhhaaaI think they should have went full throttle twin sex scene before revealing they were twins, took about a twists!
Yes, RotJ doesn't get enough criticism. It's a strange movie. I actually rate Revenge of the Sith higher.
The critique about how Nute Gunray dealt with the Jedi is not very good for these reasons:
1. It's established that Nute Gunray has never dealt with a Jedi Knight before
2. It's also established that he is not very intelligent(not a complete idiot but not enough to know the Jedi would survive the gas room in the short amount of time). Essentially expecting the Jedi to die in the time period that would be normal for a human to die of that gas.
3. The time that it took to send the droids down to the room is not 100% known. You said "like 40seconds" however it could have been 3 -10 minutes. Only elite level athletes would be able to hold their breath for 10 minutes and that is with controlled environments and no extra movement.
Again Nute Gunray failed in his plan because he underestimated how long the Jedi could last in the room and had no reason to think he should leave them in there for hours. That is only something the audience would expect because they know about how Jedi operate.
"They must be dead by now, destroy whats left of them"
No amount of overthinking is going to make this writing any better
@@dancingvalkyrie Nute Gunray is shown to be impulsive, weak minded and manipulable. There is no overthinking, just understanding the story.
@@thibaldus3 Yes and nothing about Gunray's choices here are understandable. Quigon refers to the trade federation as cowards but Gunray still feels the need to open the door and let the jedi out when he could easily leave the door closed. The movie never refers to Gunray as an idiot, its just the writing that is idiotic
Exactly
@@dancingvalkyrie Nope. Additionally to all the reasons posted above, as a "coward", Nute Gunray wanted to check if the Jedi were dead (to aleviate his fear). Fear and impulsivity doesn't push you to make the most strategical decisions.
What Plinkett means when he says “there’s no protagonist” he means that there is no character with a real character arc. When we follow Qui-Gon, he is a mostly static character throughout
It took me a long time to realize that Palpatine *wasn't* clairvoyant like he was claiming to be in Return of the Jedi, liar that he is. After I realized this, a lot of his actions in the Prequels make more sense, especially with the Sith's 'power for power's sake' philosophy. He's got a lot of balls in the air at once, but plays the long game well and is really good at seizing opportunities when they come his way.
The fact that Palpatine is so good at adapting as to appear clairvoyant is spectacular. Though I wish we could’ve seen Palpatine actually acknowledge when his plans go awry
That's what makes him so dangerous to the Republic and the Jedi. He's the first Sith ever who realized that the Republic could be turned against itself and he exploited that to the fullest.
He doesn't need to be clairvoyant, he has a thousand contingencies in place for every event and often sets events up in a way that either outcome ends up being beneficial to him. Episode 1 shows this beautifully with the Queen's escape. Although Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan could have potentially posed a vital threat to his scheme to overthrow Valorum, he ends up utilizing Amidala's political inexperience to make it come to fruition anyway. The bigger thorn in his foot probably was that Maul failed at killing the Queen and revealing the continued existence of the Sith to the Jedi Order by allowing Qui-Gon to live and tell the tale, but he also solved that by setting Maul against two opponents who had beaten him once before. Once again, Palpatine wins either way. Either Maul dies and the Jedi are lured into a false of security, or Maul wins and the retaking of Naboo fails, further destabilizing the Republic leadership.
And it's very much carried over from the OT. Palpatine's plan to lure the Rebels into a trap posed ostensibly next to no risk to him; he made the Death Star a target the Rebels could not possibly ignore and he always had a backup plan for everything, except Vader and Luke joining forces to fight him, something he could not have forseen.
I don't think Sidious is fully clairvoyant, but he _wants to be._ OT makes several allusions to future-vision and its pitfalls. Yoda chastises Anakin's memory over it: "Always did his mind wander, _iNtO ThE fUTurE!_ . . . Never on WHERE. HE. WAS. WHAT HE WAS DOING. Hm?"
And this is pointedly compared with Sidious in 'Jedi in his be-all response emphatic response to _"He_ will come to _me?"_ "... I HAVE FORSEEN IT." No further argument needed.
And later when Vader mentions Luke is on Endor "I have felt him", Sidious is somewhat disturbed, "Strange that I have not."
Finally Luke pegs his flaw as his over-confidence.
To be it's strongly implied that Sidious is obsessed with controlling the future. Not just power for its own sake, but specifically control over the webs of time. But because of his obsessing over all the personalities and power-dynamics and motivations, as well as scattered, incomplete visions of the future to guide him, he completely forgot that Endor has a local population of Ewok tribes who care little for politics and power. The Ewoks being there, right under his nose, is what gets the Rebels in the door where Sidious thought it was a perfect setup. Stupid as that looks in the actual fight choreography of them hitting troopers with sticks.
He's not a perfect clairvoyant, he's more the representation of what happens when people obsess over future potentialities and ambition, instead of being a good person in the here and now.
The reason it took you a long time to realize this is that his clairvoyance or lack thereof is never discussed... except by Palpatine who says he is, and the concept itself by the Jedi who claim that they are.
So the idea Palpatine wasn't meant to be a magical, clairvoyant mastermind actually isn't supported by the movies.
1:18:57 I think it’s important to acknowledge that when that majority of actors in a film are wooden, the fault typically relies more on the director than the actors
look up how acting worked before 50´method acting and what lucas said over and over about why it´s present in sw
@@Room-yu8yc do you know what method acting is?
Yeah I firmly believe all the terrible line deliveries aren’t the actors fault in this movie, even Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor kinda sucked in this and they’re fantastic otherwise, same with Natalie Portman she’s usually a good actress in good movies MCU aside lmao
@@Room-yu8yc Doing that was a pretty shit idea if this was the result
Also, something interesting, actors in this trilogy get infinitely better in follow-ups if they ever appear in them. I think Lucas's style took getting used to, but once they did, they were able to act more naturally
You're gonna cover all the prequels before Long RR Martin is finished with TFA.
Is that Mauler your reffering to?
@@basedchimera5859 who else
@@connormoorerocks thought they were talking about george rr martin at first
Mauler is going to be finished by the end of the decade, I swear.
Had only Mauler focused more on finishing his critiques than EFAP.
I'm pretty sure Nute Gunray is SUPPOSED to be an idiot.
Not a strategist.
He's so greedy that he uses an army of weak and cheaply constructed droids.
Palpatine is suposed to be the genius.
No not "he's so greedy he uses the most mobile and dangerous robots ever shown in this universe", but he's a smug idiot in way over his head.
To mix both your points, Gunray is a Greedy Smug Idiot with no foresight to his actions.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf
I was pretty sure the main reason he uses Battle Droids (or those specific ones) is because they are the cheapest possible army. (it would explain how they were beaten so easily. get what you fucking pay for.
@@curtisleblanc5897 beaten by whom
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf
the gungans.
Obiwan and Quigon going down separately doesn't double the chances of them being caught, it reduces the chances of them both being caught at the same time -- which is the priority when their mission is to reach the Queen at any cost. It's not a ghost mission, the trade federation already knows they're there. All that matters is that at least one of them makes it. They did the smartest possible thing for their mission!
Exactly. I can't believe people complained about that, I always thought it was the obvious thing to do. Even if they had been dropped off super far apart, they are both competent Jedi and they know they are trying to get to the capitol. If they hadn't been dropped off close together, they would have just met up again at the capitol. Qui-gon trusts obi wan, in his mind obi wan is already ready to be a knight.
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
“I hate the Force, I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance when countless lives are lost"
Influence Gained: Kreia
Influence Lost: Kreia
Apathy is Death
@@apollyon8983
Dark Side points gained
Light Side points gained
The point that Sheev fails to see
@@lukescrew1981What exact point are you speaking if?
I disagree that "the will of the force" being the reason for Qui-Gon meeting Anakin means that the entire universe is deterministic. It's entirely possible (and far more likely) that this instance was only what Qui-Gon said: their meeting was from the will of the force. It doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is because of the will of the force, but that their meeting was an exception and that the force "had" to intervene and allow this to happen. This video is really great but I wish you considered this more so that you wouldn't fall into the trap of having so many of your points after around 50% through the video rely on this assumption.
i also feel like he took it a bit too far into that direction. the chosen one thing can be a bit wacky dependimg on how literal you take it, but that aside and speaking more broadly, my perception has always been that the force has a "will" in a sense, and sometimes things will happen to try to nudge the galaxy back to its natural balance. Anakin being born for example. But not everything being set in stone. stuff can go wrong, and dark siders especially can mess stuff up by trying to impose their own will over natural balance.
His is certainly one of the interpretations you can go with, but i found it a bit disappointing no other perspectives were mentioned and that it was pretty much exclusively taken that literally.
Yeah I also thought that he went way too much into that. The force having a will doesn't really mean it's sentient on the same level as a human and decides literally everything that happens ever.
@@Upsedriss " But not everything being set in stone. stuff can go wrong, and dark siders especially can mess stuff up by trying to impose their own will over natural balance. "
Acc. to the notion that this "prophecy" could've been misread and instead meant doom, then the "dark side" can apparently steer events just as much.
I think it's pointless to attempt any thorough analysis of this, considering that that whole plotline revolves around the premise of "they run into the kid jesus and the only dealer with the parts after just having decided to check out 'one of the dealers' and then suddenly that becomes the only option they have in the whole vast city" and that's too absurd to make any further statements about odds or how this universe works (naturally as well as supernaturally) whatever?
It mainly just runs on Narrativium, and sometimes that's attributed to the acknowledged magic force in this universe, simple as that lol
I think he overdosed on the whole "Will of the force", it's no where near as bad as he confirms it to be and his application of it had several flaws and misunderstandings, that he assumed were universal truths, and basically his criticisms were more a strawman than anything, due to the undefined nature, scope, etc, that is the "Will of the force".
I'm ngl still feel physical pain every time I hear the "George Lucas y'knowd our childhood" song. With people then claiming that documentary is even remotely nuanced and/or balanced in terms of bashing George.
I wonder what those smucks think about Star Wars now a days.
They're not wrong though, George was always a creative hack and a business man before anything else. The people that dickride George nowadays and treat every half-assed thought he makes as gospel is way more pathetic than any of the prequel backlash.
@@nagger8216he created this universe the fact you say that proves you have zero intelligence
@@nagger8216 Business man before anything else??
Oh you do NOT know George Lucas as well as you believe
Edit: Sure I agree some people worship him too much but this is still untrue and kinda insulting…even if unintentionally
@@nagger8216He was not even remotely that bad. The dude had vision and creativity, but was far from perfect. If he was a hacky businessman, all of the movies would have been as bad as the sequels.
It's mentioned in a book called How Star Wars conquered the universe during a conversation between Lucas and Rob Coleman that R2 is the narrator of the saga recounting the story to a keeper of the journal of the Whills several centuries after the events of the films. Lucas basically took the idea that he used on A New Hope of the story being told from the two least important characters perspective, (which he got from watching Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress) and expanded it so that it was the framing device of the entire saga. This is why you get the insanity of Anakin taking R2 to Mustafar or C-3PO getting his memories erased but not R2.
My only counterpoint to your points about the force having a will is without that concept we'd never have KOTOR 2 which is my favourite piece of Star Wars media.
If the sequels followed this theme, Episode 9 would have ended with a scene about one hundred years after the rest of the film, having outlived all other characters, C3PO and R2D2 travel together on a ship to find the place of the mysterious Whills. R2D2 recounts the entire story of the Skywalker family and C3PO translates it for them, so it can be remembered for the rest of time. Honestly it would have been fantastic way to end the saga if done right.
@@thesenate1844especially with the treatment of 7-9. Apparently the idea for those films was the deconstruction of our heroes in the saga, we would have been introduced to the Whills of the force. It would’ve tied the sagas’ fatalist and destiny oriented trilogies presented in series. It would actually address the very ideas of control and free will that would make these films even more of a satisfying saga.
Side note:
I equally love all six films, and no it’s not nostalgia, all of them works in their own way. 😊I just wish they didn’t mistreat George’s treatment and betray the deal… it’s honestly insulting Bob Iger and Kathleen would do that to the owner of the saga, and somehow allow Rian to do whatever he wanted. Not blaming Rian for TLJ, all these problems started with Bad Robot and JJ…
So one could theoretically explain the sequel trilogy's chaotic storytelling as coming from rumors and secondhand accounts because R2 was not physically present for the majority of it.
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
@@thesenate1844That’s insanity why would they do that when they plan on making more movies directly following Rey?
I never understood the "MEEEH! Politics!" crowd. It's a few small scenes but it establishes stakes and the world. Without those scenes, you have the Sequel Trilogy...
@Tyral It’s a dumb overreaction and clearly one that didn’t take nuance. The politics themselves weren’t the problem. It’s just the character writing wasn’t there. And that was where Lucas was lacking. Had the characters been good and the issues themselves were explored, the prequels could have been special. KOTOR did the political element well with Revan and the Jedi Order staying out of Mandolorian wars and what cost that had.
Im actually interested in the politics of star wars and how terrible it is lol
And the sequel trilogy was fine without them. You wrote that last sentence as if it’s supposed to imply something that’s a matter of fact.
@@MrShakespearefan the Sequel Trilogy is a mess of canon-defying writing, character assassination, and contrivances. It isnt "fine" by any stretch of the imagination.
@@Tyrarl People said the same thing about the prequels- the midichlorians were seen as ruining the force. There are plenty of contrivances in the prequels. Making Vader a child was seen as ruining the character. Yoda using a lightsaber was seen as character assassination. Personally I think TLJ is the best after the originals.
59:55 I kind of disagree here because even if the prophecy is talked about in the prequels, the fact that Anakin turns to the dark side and the Jedi are wiped out does bring its validity into question.
Star Wars is so old that it stopped growing taller.
ACCURATE
@@chasehedges6775Height is just one dimension to grow however my young padawan.
@@Byronic19134 👍
“Kid I’ve flown from side of this galaxy to the other, I’ve seen a lot strange stuff. But I’ve never seen anything to make me believe there was one all powerful force controlling everyone. There’s no mystical energy field controlling my destiny.” The ground work was already established as early as A New Hope that the force had a will and supposedly by common ear “controlled everything” or “has a destiny”
So a skeptic strawmanning a religious belief is establishing ground work? That's a stretch.
@@gorth1314I mean, if the point of the Force as part of the narrative is partially to prove Han completely wrong, then yeah, the seeds for the Force having some sway over destiny are planted
@@gorth1314 Ok but this diologue though:
Luke: So it controls my actions
Obi-Wan: *partially*, but it also obeys your commands
Ie the force can will things by *partially controling your actions*
@@joelancon7231the Midichlorians was the answer to that. It’s a symbiotic relationship so the partiality is actually fitting. It benefits the person while the very nature of the force on a living being is, unbeknownst to the user, controlling them for the sake of the Whills.
The line was "controlling everything" not "everyone";
however yeah that's ironic, the PT seems to have run with Han's interpretation there of the energy field "controlling destinies".
ESB introduced prescience and ROTJ upped that to "destiny" but still not set-in-stone prophetic destiny "determined by the will of the cosmos" - it's just something Obiwan and Palpatine kind of mentioned, not quite clear what they meant. Maybe something similar to that, or just something based on (not quite reliable) future visions or their views of what's gonna happen.
Maybe that was already in line with Han's view, who knows? They don't explicitly say "the Force determines your destiny, Luke" (although of course what else could?), and then PT does go there.
I think Qui Gon's actions reflect his understanding of the will of the force rather than him just going with the flow. In his mind, he is the Force's instrument and he needs to make decisions and use his power and influence to keep Anakin near him and ensure he becomes a Jedi. He doesn't have some precognition or anything as he genuinely seems surprised when he dies at the hand of Maul. I think his notion of the Force is a lot like Calvinist/Presbyterian notions of predestination or providence, where there is a preordained set of events or that events happen for a reason, but it isn't in man's power to see the whole picture, so all a righteous person can do is behave piously and act in a way they believe is pleasing to God, or The Force in this case.
It is just Qui Gon own interpretation of the force it is not the actual definition of the force I don't get why people legit take it like the only fact about the force. I feel like the force should have multiple interpretations for every characters in Star wars if people narrow Force into something like good and bad it is just boring.
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
@@SWANSWAN-nc7ds "It is just Qui Gon own interpretation of the force it is not the actual definition of the force I don't get why people legit take it like the only fact about the force."
Because Qui-Gon, by being a Jedi Master that is even able to steamroll through the Jedi Council, and by acting in a mentor role, acts as an authority on the subject. The rest of the narrative does not call him out as an unorthodox radical whose teachings would be disagreed with or viewed with suspicion. Therefore, when Qui-Gon explains something, the audience does not have reason to distrust him. He most likely speaks the truth.
Otherwise, you may as well say that what the Force is is different than what Ben explained in A New Hope, or Yoda explained in The Empire Strikes Back. If you distrust _all_ sources of authority within a literary work, then you literally cannot learn about the fictional setting and follow the plot. And if you _should_ distrust a certain authority figure, but the story fails to provide reasonable cause for doubt, then that's a failing of the writer.
Appreciate sheev reminding me i turn 25 this year 😂
I already have. I wasles than month old when it came.
99 was a crazy year for movies.
@@cool64378 Simpler times. The peak of society.
@@ggt47facts. All Star came out in '99
99 gang
I think people underestimate how much hindsight helps in understanding the plot of this movie. The intentions behind palpatine and the trade federation’s actions are unclear. The movie would have benefitted from Darth Maul and Sidious having a scene where they clarify their intentions with what’s happening on Naboo.
25 years later, and we're still trying to make sense of the the prequels. There is no plot because that's defined as character change (the protagonist, namely) and I don't even think one character ever changes. There is a story, but it's with totally static characters. So I think the framework people use to analyze Star Wars is what's wrong.
Yeah I agree, people don’t realize that before the clone wars, pretty much none of plot of prequel movies made sense to anyone. I’ve seen the phantom menace like 59 times and still couldn’t fully tell you the story. Somehow, the movie is full of exposition dumps but also fails to convey its plot coherently.
@@donovan4222 Even the original movies had no plot, technically. No character ever changed. Even Vader only became aware that Emperor was using him, because he told Like with Vader present. Star Wars, like Indiana Jones, too, was just a sequence of action scenes to emulate the serials that used to be run on Saturday mornings for kids. That's why Star Wars worked, and wy they had no idea what to do for Empire or Jedi. They weren't sure it would even matter because Star Wars had to succeed first.
@@-taz- What? Not sure how you came to that conclusion, Luke, Han, Leia and obviously Vader go through pretty major character arcs and changes in the original trilogy. It’s not some super intricate plot or character study but I definitely would not reduce it down to serials for kids with no plot.
@@donovan4222 I'm not reducing it. That's what it is, and it works. Every character ended where they began, which is fine. In fact, I think that's real life. It's the idea of a plot that is artificial.
The shields with backup blast doors on the ship's hangar are clearly character development for the ship builders. They learned from their mistake after a 9 year old accidentally blew up their flag ship 😊
Also, the Lucrehulks are freighters retrofitted to be warships, while the Invisible Hand is a warship first and foremost.
I didn’t expect to see you here
I am everywhere
I’ve said for a while now that the big difference between the Prequels and the Sequels is that the Prequels were full of great ideas with terrible execution whilst the sequels were slickly made films in service of nothing (with some exceptions - more on this in a second). Nice to see that reflected at the end here.
I always really appreciate your critiques. Whilst I definitely don’t agree with every opinion you’ve ever put out on Star Wars (I actually really like TLJ despite certain flaws), I can always see that your opinion, whilst sometimes different to mine, is a deeply considered and honest one.
As someone who happily consumed the Plinkett reviews back in the late 00s, I also really liked your critique of his criticisms too. It was really refreshing to hear a different perspective that comes to the same general conclusion (Phantom Menace = 👎🏻 ) whilst disagreeing over the how and the why (understandable overlap not withstanding).
Great channel. Please keep up the good work.
At least this critique wasn’t incredibly condescending from the very first moment or anything like that.
darth jar-jar is real
Well, speaking about possibly finding a place to stash Anakin instead of bringing him to battle in Naboo, they could have left him with Sheev. He’s the Senator for Naboo, so he has servants and an apartment in Coruscant. Padme could order him to keep the boy who had helped her get to Coruscant.
Sure, it’s a bad idea to leave the Chosen One with the actual Sith Lord that was manipulating the entire conflict, but they don’t know that.
Agreed. Despite the Jedi being unaware of Palpatine's true identity as a Sith Lord, endangering a child by bringing him INTO A FIREFIGHT is equally stupid and irresponsible. The only way I would forgive this is if there was an extended scene showing Anakin sneaking off to follow Qui-Gon to the palace, they have a small argument about this mission being too dangerous, but it becomes too late to turn back at that point, giving Qui-Gon no choice but to be extra protective of both Padme AND Anakin.
Could have worked as set up for his grooming as well.
@@MasterJunior93 Maybe sure, but I think people are just generally forgetting that this is a particular kind of movie, and what is generally "a warzone"TM may be treated as "adventure zone" instead.
So just follow the reprimanding instructions the wise master gave you and you're cool
Listen to my speech, that your wisdom may be multiplied. Children of God, let the love of the Lord be your light in this dark age. Remember these words, which have been sent by God, that you may not be troubled. Let the father, the son and the Holy spirit be manifest in all that you do, for this is the glory of God
I really enjoyed this video and even though I both love the RLM videos and have enough fun with the prequels, I loved seeing you take them all on.
From one of the most hated to one of the most loved movies without changing anything. How have we come there?
It seems that with time people lost their ability to think and started to worship garbage in its purest form
The people who saw it in theaters when they were babies grew up, and are now 20-something’s who find no fault with the prequels due to nostalgia blindness.
People still hate this movie tho. Sheev himself still says these movies are all bad lol
Because it's still not as bad as the shit we're getting now
When you have childhood wonder minced together with jagoffs comparing this movie to r***, you tend to give it more of a pass as time goes on. It has a lot of issues, but it is fundamentally a setup for the political theatre of the Republic, and the intro to Anakin as a character. However botched that character intro is. It had a story to tell.
Giving the Plinketts and Cosmonauts the benefit of the doubt, I think the use of "taxation" by the Republic to drive the story may have been a weak choice to start the whole conflict. We don't know what to think about this taxation because we're not given details on it, and we don't know why they're taking this out on Naboo of all planets. Is Naboo a major industrial/commercial exporter? Is Naboo a popular tourist site or at least a place where the rich and elite live? Or is this decision entirely because Palpatine wanted the Trade Federation to blockade his planet to get the Chancellorship on pity? How could Palpatine get a huge faction like the Trade Federation to agree to blockade his planet?
What if instead, the Trade Federation wanted to open up a whole bunch of sweatshops using slaves bought from the Hutts and the Naboo objected? Maybe the Naboo signed a contract stating they would allow the Trade Federation to make the sweatshops but did not state that slaves may be used in them. Perhaps Palpatine was directly involved in the original signing of this contract. The blockade would be put in place to try and force the Naboo to comply with the contract. The rest of the movie could then continue mostly as normal, although for bonus points you could have the Jedi and Padme's escape on a ship to grab more slaves from Tatooine, leading them to Anakin. This way, the story beats remind us of the central conflict driving the film and you remove _some_ of the coincidence factor in finding Anakin.
Uh have you seen what corporations in the real world do when they get even slightly taxed?
@@wisdommanari6701 That is not my point. My point is that the average person sees the word "taxation" and rolls their eyes. Mosquito bites can be extremely deadly if they carry malaria, but the average Westerner considers mosquitoes to be a nuisance or an annoyance. I think you can understand why if you made an action movie today where a main character is killed by a Malaria-riddled mosquito, you'd get people saying his death was lame. Much in the same way, taxation doesn't carry the same emotional weight for the average person as slavery does seeing as that issue has a lot more relevance to Western audiences. Depicting the Trade Federation as greedy slavers makes it instantly clear they're the evil faction of the movie and, as I've said, it gives us a much better path to meeting Anakin.
@@MajorTomFisher don't bother. The guy's a doofus. The normal people among us got what you're talking about the first time around.
@@MajorTomFisher I agree, it doesn't speak to Sheev's critical faculties that he refuses to gauge a movie on its own merits (as it was originally released, and as almost everyone experienced it), rather than relying on the vast amount of Lucasarts backtracking, editorializing, novelizing, expanding, and community theorizing that settled on something that somewhat resembles a coherent plot... after a quarter-century. Barely any of the things which make TPM's plot work are present in TPM itself, and most of those that make you go, "Oooh, so that explains that, now it makes sense," were from later media that aimed to retroactively cram in context where there initially wasn't any.
@@ikaemosThe movie makes sense on its own or are you mentally defective or something and that’s why you didn’t understand it?
38:36 While I'm going to try to avoid falling into two traps of criticism (1. Relying on external material, 2. Writing for the writers), I wanted to make a counterpoint to this section because I think it's interesting and embodies some of the reason I find these movies cool.
Firstly, based off my understanding from EU materials, going through the planet's core is indeed literal! Naboo is supposed to have a dormant core interspersed with a honeycomb of caves that connects the oceans of the planet through the center. While Star Wars has never been anywhere near to hard science fiction in terms of its writing, I would consider this at least fantastically plausible. Many planets in our own solar system, including our moon and Mars, have entirely dormant, "dead" cores which have cooled from their molten temperature during the formation or our solar system. So, to me, it seems like there's the same level of adherence to physics as laser swords, which is to say, enough for a fantasy film with little focus on super-strict realism. I don't think accepting that at face value opens any major plot holes. I also just like this world-building detail, as it gives Naboo some extra character in the lore, and I think worldbuilding is the great redeeming feature of the prequels and the main aspect of their writing worth defending.
While it seems kind of implausible for ocean travel to allow them to reach Theed in the time they do, it's worth noting that on our own planet commercial air travel can take you to the other side of the world in about 15 hours on a non-stop flight, taking a more circuitous route over the surface of the planet. Assuming a perfectly circular flight path over the surface, and knowing that pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter, we know that the distance travelled through the center of the Naboo from the opposite is just over 3 times shorter, which means the sub could be going at an average speed 3 times slower than a commercial airliner and reach Theed in the same length of time. Now, in our world submersibles move a full 10x+ slower than aircraft, going based off speed records, which means the gungan sub would have to move at a speed roughly 3x higher than our own undersea speed records to match that 15 hour trip. That's probably not physically possible for us, but again, it's not so mind-boggling that I'm unwilling to suspend disbelief for a space fantasy film. The distance savings will be somewhat less if they aren't on the other side of the planet, but absent another form of transport it still seems plausible that making a straight line through the inside of the planet could be their fastest option.
As for the invasion, it's not clear that the ships arriving near Otah Gunga are carrying the same troops used for the occupation of Theed. But, if neither Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon know where the ships were going, it seems plausible that the Trade Federation could be landing troops on many different locations on the planet. After all, we know they are blockading the whole of Naboo, and presumably there are many settlements besides Theed where the Federation wants to establish a military presence. We also know, from later conversation between Gunray and Amidala, that the Federation is establishing concentration camps on the planet for dissidents and political leadership. Presumably, they would have done so in places outside the Capital and other population centers so they can separate people and control their movements and activities, the same way such camps have been set up in our world historically. Likewise, while the chronology hasn't been established, and I'll be making a generous assumption for the writers... Those transport ships look pretty, well, big! Maybe it didn't make sense logistically for them to land their army directly in the city, particularly given that said army would probably be at its most vulnerable when in their transports, much as amphibious landing troops are in wars on Earth. That's probably giving the writers a bit too much slack, but it just reminds me of the Gallipoli campaign in WWI, where the British tried and failed to capture Istanbul via an amphibious invasion of the Dardanelles.
Anyway, I appreciate a lot of the criticisms of the prequels, but I think it's telling that Mauler and others have suggested in the past that, rather than simply being retconned out of existence, the prequels could be deserving of a remake which sorts out some of their writing and execution issues. While they are really flawed films, as a fan of the Star Wars universe I have always felt they added more than they took away, in spite of their shortcomings, because they have enough of a foundation in concept and worldbuilding to be worth redeeming. They are "bad," I guess, but creatively so in a way that is interesting and which required taking some risks. I can't say the same about most of what Disney has produced, where I've really never found much worth expanding on, with the possible exception of a character like Finn's (ex-mook turned good) being worthy of significant expansion and not being sidelined. The Prequels are George Lucas having a flawed vision of what he wanted to do with this universe, absent the gentle hand of Marcia Lucas to help him humanize the world and reign him in. The sequels are the result of a company completely unwilling to take risks pumping out a cardboard product based off of boardroom meetings and focus groups.
And if there's a major negative legacy for RLM's prequel criticism, it's that they articulated what became a hegemonic point of view on these films, which undeniably impacted the creation of the sequel films through the consensus they generated. Hate politics because it's boring? Here's a film with basically no world-building which has been reset to the status quo of Episode IV. Hate "overly-elaborate" lightsaber fights? How about shitty, almost ad-libbed fight choreography with major mistakes. Don't like dialogue that is trying to be "too serious" or "edgy"? How about a film in which a character who's supposed to be a turncoat soldier to a fanatically authoritarian government is just a happy-go-lucky guy with no trust issues, with Marvel-style "quirky lighthearted" dialogue. I think it's telling that RLM, like a lot of people, were generally positive on TFA, when I viewed it even at the time as the beginning of the end which had shattered any possible foundation for interesting writing in the series. It appealed to a lot of their criticism by "getting back to basics," but that criticism of the prequels is so harsh and unqualified that making a film in line with those expectations was essentially a film that takes as few risks as possible. And frankly, I find that far more "boring" than the the at times cringe, at time stupid, but at time fascinating and the even spectacular moments one gets with the very flawed prequels.
I think that's a really good way of putting it. I grew up with the prequels, I'm in love with them, it's my favourite trilogy. I'm happy to admit they had flaws, but I don't really care. I feel like a lot of the prequel hatred is people being nostalgic for the original trilogy, and not being able to be accepting of something new and different in the series. The flaws are there, but for anybody with an open mind and an understanding that these movies will be different from the ones that came before, I think there's something to enjoy for a lot of people. The sequel trilogy was very much made with an anti prequel sentiment, and you're right in that it just made for a boring trilogy that didn't make a lot of sense, because it tried to emulate the original trilogy without ever earning it
@@icequeen52 I agree with you completely. I think it's telling that Lucasfilm created one of the earliest cinematic universes that captivated people's imaginations for several generations, and which served as a reality in which many people could craft stories, a facet which started as early as Irvin Kershner directing Empire. The fact that I grew up with Star Wars as a cultural icon for me more than 30 years after the OT, with games like KotOR I+II (and the associated comics) having genuinely standout writing is a testament of the versatility of that universe. So to me, its a shame to see its potential foreclosed on, which necessarily includes the potential to tell bad stories! You have to be willing to try something that might not work. And Disney in particular has always rubbed me the wrong way since annihilating the expanded universe with a press release, a place rich with stories that, if they were feeling lazy, they could have simply adapted!
Actually, I don't know if you've heard of this already, but I've been captivated by this animated fan adaptation of the Thrawn trilogy in progress by a RUclipsr named Darth Angelus. It's very budget, and sometimes unintentionally funny for that reason, but it's also charming and, to me, showcases how strong good writing can be even when it has very little else to back it up. Even though I think some of the voices are kinda rough, and the animation is definitely a couple decades behind, it's still, in my mind, a much stronger work of art than the sequel trilogy. You might want to check it out, if you don't already know it! ruclips.net/video/CC9fYUDQ6CM/видео.htmlsi=psDgbhAN6GtFiMPz
"The sequels are the result of a company completely unwilling to take risks pumping out a cardboard product based off of boardroom meetings and focus groups."
Funny how the 1 big blunder that gives tribal "sequel haters" their platform and legitimacy, TLJ, was in fact the one that "took risks" acc. to the whims of its hired auteur writer-director (with some theorizing it also included KK's self-inserts).
Although the other 2 may also have just been mainly JJ's work and how he wanted to do them.
"I can't say the same about most of what Disney has produced, where I've really never found much worth expanding on, with the possible exception of a character like Finn's (ex-mook turned good) being worthy of significant expansion and not being sidelined."
People keep repeating these talking points, "sequels not worth expanding on" blah blah blah, just cause they've heard others type it, but there's really nothing different about it than 4-6 which did lead to huge expansions for some reason - why though?
Wanna see more of the lived-in outskirts like Tatooine, well ST has comparably good locations with Jakku and the TROS ones to some extent.
Wanna see background politics explained, well same here.
So yeah I dunno
"rather than simply being retconned out of existence, the prequels could be deserving of a remake which sorts out some of their writing and execution issues. While they are really flawed films, as a fan of the Star Wars universe I have always felt they added more than they took away, in spite of their shortcomings, because they have enough of a foundation in concept and worldbuilding to be worth redeeming. They are "bad," I guess, but creatively so in a way that is interesting and which required taking some risks."
If you want to see an authentic version of the OT backstory filmed, you HAVE to retcon these movies out of existence and start from scratch.
At the same time if you wanna see some kind of "better made" version of the PT's plot about the Satanic conspiracy in Space America and its prophecies with the sword-fu monks and greedy fishmen invading fairytale planets with magic plasma, you can have that remade as well - possibly even without a connection to Starwars this time.
And of course some AI in the future could tweak some lines or replace the rom-plot in AotC or idk lol
"And if there's a major negative legacy for RLM's prequel criticism, it's that they articulated what became a hegemonic point of view on these films, which undeniably impacted the creation of the sequel films through the consensus they generated."
TFA was the most "anti-prequel" one of the three, and guess whether it's enjoyed the most uncontroversial positive acclaim lol
"Hate politics because it's boring? Here's a film with basically no world-building which has been reset to the status quo of Episode IV."
Except it's a more complicated situation with the New Republic - FO - Resistance that gets under-explained just like the Trade Federation and Separatist situations, whoops - ended up committing the same issue.
"Hate "overly-elaborate" lightsaber fights? How about shitty, almost ad-libbed fight choreography with major mistakes."
Mistakes I've seen pointed out in PT fights as well (like "aiming for the sword not the body" type stuff?) and that you need to slow down and zoom in or expertise experience to notice lol
All in all they were much closer in tone and aesthetics to OT than the sword-fu of 1-3 (with the exception of Mace vs. Palpatine), however it's possible they went a bit too far in the "janky disorganized" direction, not sure.
"Don't like dialogue that is trying to be "too serious" or "edgy"? How about a film in which a character who's supposed to be a turncoat soldier to a fanatically authoritarian government is just a happy-go-lucky guy with no trust issues, with Marvel-style "quirky lighthearted" dialogue."
*1)* Awww people just can't stop the "selectively only remember serioues/jokey side of previous trilogy and then selectively complain about the jokey/serious side of the new one" dementia, can they?
Mark Hamill, RLM repeatedly.
All of them are a combination of serious and levity, start from that lucid premise and then maybe you'll have some kinda workable analysis or critique.
*1a)* "Marvel" didn't start "quirky lighthearted quips banter" - there was a lot of it in the originals, at most you can say that Marvel has a certain particular style of doing that (derived from RDJ's adlibbing and Whedon, probably) which then the new trilogy was influenced by;
but saying they introduced "banter quip levity" to the previously serious Starwars is just demented insanity.
*2)* Finn seems to have absorbed the personality from Poe, the first person he runs into post-defection; then the way the Rey situation comes about etc.
He keeps having serious moments though and the circlejerky critics keep ignoring that all the time.
"I think it's telling that RLM, like a lot of people, were generally positive on TFA, when I viewed it even at the time as the beginning of the end which had shattered any possible foundation for interesting writing in the series."
And how glad you were that TLJ came and provided the blunder by going against TFA, now you've got the platform to complain about the "whole trilogy" lolol
"It appealed to a lot of their criticism by "getting back to basics," but that criticism of the prequels is so harsh and unqualified that making a film in line with those expectations was essentially a film that takes as few risks as possible."
I mean it could've kept the style while dispensing with the more derivative plot beats or Starkiller or same-design ships etc.
And RLM's criticisms themselves were dissonant and contradictory on that anyway - memberberrie bad here, "too different" bad there, hard to just simplistically "address these criticisms" lol
@@icequeen52 "The sequel trilogy was very much made with an anti prequel sentiment, "
Well TLJ the "worst one" wasn't.
But PT fans didn't get the memo and decided that bashing it would propel them into popularity - which it kinda did, but in a stupid way that's easy to take down lol
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf Let me rephrase: JJ Abrams is anti prequel and made TFA with anti prequel sentiment, Ryan Johnson came in with TLJ and completely wrecked established canon, so they brought back JJ to try to save the trilogy, but he couldn't think of anything for ROS besides bringing back Palpatine with the only prior setup for this plot point being in Fortnite, and the only explanation being "somehow Palpatine returned".
Brah, stumbled upon your videos and am, truly, grateful for the organized way you edit, script and deliver your videoessays. Wonderful stuff! Cheers!
That was fantastic, Sheeve, thanks! I look forward to your next installment!
I personally enjoy these movies however, I feel like George Lucas had trouble streamlining his ideas, not being up that he was basically in charge of EVERYTHING. If ge had gotten some to co-write and help flush out his ideas, the prequel’s would be as beloved and acclaimed as the originals
The love for OT is mostly nostalgic. If someone were to bash them, it would be extremely easy. I still remember that scene from the first movie where Han Solo shot one of the stormtroopers and then run in their direction and that bunch who were pointing their guns suddenly started to run away from him, this is the funniest shit I have ever seen. So, if we speak fairly and objectively then of course revenge of the sith is the best movie by faaaaar
@@reinhardt_tv That scene with Han and the Stormtroopers is literally meant to be comedic 💀
@BeansWithHam what's even funnier is that the PT's revival in popularity literally started off because of how popular the "memes" were, and most of the memes in question were just literal scenes/quotes/moments from the films not even meant to be funny.
My favorite new joke is that when you watch ROTS, assume that Mace Windu already knows everything Anakin is finding out/telling him through out the film, and that Windu is just sarcastically fucking with him to keep him as uninvolved as possible. Makes a lot of the acting/plot more believable.
@@IKhanmakeWAR2”A Sith Lord? No shit little Ani, Palps is mad evil.” - Mace, internally, probably.
@@IKhanmakeWAR2 "what's even funnier is that the PT's revival in popularity literally started off because of how popular the "memes" were, and most of the memes in question were just literal scenes/quotes/moments from the films not even meant to be funny."
Don't think that's the sole or even primary factor in all of this.
"My favorite new joke is that when you watch ROTS, assume that Mace Windu already knows everything Anakin is finding out/telling him through out the film, and that Windu is just sarcastically fucking with him to keep him as uninvolved as possible. Makes a lot of the acting/plot more believable."
No idea how that's supposed to accomplish that, idk
As someone who did grow up with the sequels, no these movies will not get love later.
Only some adults love these movies. Some kids like the movies, but no one loves them. All the people my age like the prequels the most, maybe the ot (I’m an ot guy). Just look at the toy sales. No one bought them. Kids don’t like the movies becuz they’re basically soulless
This. Despite their faults the prequels had vision behind them. A narrative throughline. The Disney sequels have none of that.
True I don’t know why people think the sequels will get love later. They will not. The reason why the prequels were loved later is because they actually do have redeeming qualities, and, regardless of some of the writing flaws, they built a very interesting era of the Star Wars world that is different to the OT. In contrast, the sequels hardly built the world at all, they are factually worse in quality to the prequels and the OT, and they world they “set up” is pretty much just a worse, more soulless version of the OT world.
You are right, the sequels will not be lived later, and I believe that those who say they will be are making an unwise prediction.
The Sequel Trilogy is the only trilogy I can think of where every film directly retcons and tries to course correct what the previous film did. There's no direction or vision involved in the series. It's almost as bad as Halo 4-6's retcons. Almost.
Lucas tried to make more Star Wars movies. Disney tried to make more propaganda. (Not just Star Wars, but across the board.)
@@-taz- that and money
Kinda crazy it's been more years since TPM came out now than it was since ROJ in 1999.
If you haven’t, you should play KOTOR 2. The main narrative deals heavily with the negative implications for the force being alive and having a will of its own that actually does a deconstruction of Star Wars in a far better manner than anything else we’ve seen.
It's very obvious he never touched that game
Yoda in the original Phantom Menace actually looked older in my opinion. The sunken eyes make it look like he's decaying.
I still don't think Plinkett is as bad as you're saying. There's plenty of legitimate points mixed in with the weird non arguments. I've rewatched them and the efap episode on ROTS. Multiple stretches of time where they just agree with him tearing into it.
Plinkett is as bad as he is saying. RLM doesn't even actually criticize the movie. He just gets mad that it is different from how he wished they would be. He is a butthurt OT fanboy who is mad that Anakin has a personality of his own instead of being a blank slate to project a childish power fantasy onto like Luke was.
@@Abcdefg-tf7cuthe irony of your comment is just so exquisite. Lol. It's literally you as well. Just mega butthurt because RLM dared to shit on these AWFUL movies.
It is funny how he calls the videos shit but a majority of the very same criticisms he levels at this movie were also present in the original Plinkett review.
@@Henskelion It's so weird how aggro he gets. The more I watch Sheev the more it seems like he takes 3 hours to basically make all of Mike's points but not as astutely or memorably. It's like... retroactive jealously is kicking in, like he's mad he didn't make that review 15 years ago or whenever it was.
I feel like a lot of your criticisms on the chosen one land on differences in philosophical beliefs about free will and such, and aren't really writing flaws.
It’s an easier-to-swallow pill if it were established that the Force doesn’t have control over everything. It cannot prevent the existence of the Sith or the birth of Palpatine, but it can control the development of some things to an extent, like the birth of Anakin. Unfortunately the movies don’t delve much into that philosophical aspect. But yeah, fate and free will can both exist in fantasy. The Lord of the Rings is another example, in which some things happen by fate and others are left to chance.
@calick7208 I like the idea that anakin was going to bring balance to the force, but it was up to him and he fell to the darkside. Ultimately his free will still brought balance to the force
@@calick7208 I wrote it in another comment already, but yeah the force DOESN'T control everything. People can go against the will of the force - it happens in this very move, the force was steering the events to make Anakin a Padawan of Qui Gon. IT wasn't what the sith wanted though and that fate was broken by the concious action of the sith to go against the will of the force
@@RancorSnp "- it happens in this very move, the force was steering the events to make Anakin a Padawan of Qui Gon."
Or what if it was steering him to die and pass that baton on Obiwan.
"broken by the concious action of the sith to go against the will of the force"
Darth Maul certainly didn't have such conscious intentions, he seemed to just be ok with the idea of running over some kid with his car cause he was irrelevant.
Some kinda "the Sith are also after this space jesus" plot never really materialized in the movie, although it got close.
@@calick7208 Or the "balance of the Force" was "misread" and it in fact meant Sith win, ooooorrrr, any number of other interpretations lol
The prequels gave me republic commando and kotor so regardless of quality I will always appreciate them.
Quick comment about the will of the force thing:
I always viewed it as the force being an entity, not an all powerful god. It gifted Anakin the abilities of the chosen one, and WANTS him to succeed, but it does not control fate. Think of it as an organism, a collective of midi-chlorians. The force wants harmony and life, and balance, then with come along and threaten that balance. The force is a powerful entity, but does not control. So a prophecy for a chosen one refers to someone to help the will of the force.
Yeah, the will of the force is one thing - what people do with it is the other.
The will of the force was for Anakin - the chosen one - to be trained by Quigon Jin, what the Sith wanted was for Qui Gon Jin to die and Anakin to side with the sith. And well, the force sure didn't get what it wanted
Well it's true that it seems to be kind of sentient but also unpersonal or something;
however if Palpatine planted Anakin with magic, that would mean he was working in line with the "prophecy", being its agent or fufilling it etc., so the whole "force is good and sith upset the divine plan with their whims" reading isn't really that solid.
It's more like, well, a force. A force that desires balance in the same way that two fluids separated by a semi-permeable membrane "desire" osmosis or air "desires" to even out pressure.
Hold up I know the movies never state this opinion however the argument could be made that Anakin was meant to destroy the Jedi who grew complacent and dogmatic during the high republic era. And if that true the force want Anakin to get all those Jedis killed and thus have the Galactic Empire to reign for awhile. This wasn't stated by the movie and I am unsure if George agrees with it but the fact it could be suggest malicious intent from the Force or the Dark side.
@@horushyperion76 Well, while the movie doesn't state it itself, there IS something in that theory.
Most notably in Episode 3 when Mace Windu, Obi Wan and Yoda carpool together.
Mace expresses his dissatisfaction with Anakin
Obi Wan defends his friend by asking "isn't he the chosen one? The one that will destroy the sith?"
Mace, less than convinced replies "According to the 'prophecy'"
And then Yoda says "A prophecy that misunderstood may have been"
- they don't know what the prophecy actually means. They only know it will bring balance to the force, and they assume it means destruction of the sith - but Yoda is starting to doubt if that's what it actually means.
Also conversation from episode 2 where is asking Yoda if they should inform the senate that Jedi are losing their ability to read the force may be relevant.
Qui Gon Jin was the only remaining Jedi that follows the will of the force, that is why he was the person that found Anakin. The Force called him there and ensured his only way out is by taking Anakin with him. The only true master that could help the chosen one. But alas, the duel of fates does happen, and because Darth Vader existed before episode 1 - that fate could never happen. So Anakin brought the balance to the force according to Palatine's teachings instead. Which not the original plan, but jedi were already refusing to follow the force and growing weaker as a result so oh well, for a time the balance shifted from corrupt Jedi to sith, but Jedi needed a reset anyway and the only person that could have prevented it was killed by the sith
In all fairness about the poisoned drinks: Sending the Jedi another pair of drinks and poisoning those probably would’ve been smarter. But it’s partially in line for Gunray (hope I got his name right) to jump to a hasty action because he is frightened by the whole situation.
Crazy how like over two years ago now I had no idea anything about star wars other than seeing the movies when I was younger (I’m 21 and still haven’t even seen all of them all the way through) I watch every one of your videos really bc I just admire the amount of work and polish you put into your videos. I now also have an opinion about Star Wars it’s the most opinion of all time. Thank you Sheev.
The prequels are plagued with shocking writing and bizarre creative choices. However, the core story is incredible, the characters are iconic, and the worldbuilding paved the way for all of the best Star Wars content outside of the original trilogy. It's possible to appreciate these things whilst still acknowledging it's flaws.
The biggest problem is they are just poorly made movies. Bad acting /dialogue, bad cinematography, effects, etc. but the foundation of a good idea for a story, decent characters and world building is all there
You also have to acknowledge that nearly all of the criticism people have for them, the "shocking writing and bizarre creative choices", are wrong. They are not even close to as flawed as the hate hype back in the day made them seem. They are good movies, possibly even great movies.
Let’s be honest, the setting and battlefront games are the only reason people like the prequels. The writing and dialogue coping is too ridiculous to take seriously
@@davemac9563 No, the hate hype was ridiculous. Now people are "coping" - or rather, they are not coping by the actual definition of that word - because they realize the RLM level arguments they have for the prequels being "bad" are idiotic.
@@Arphemius I don’t even like RLM but it’s so obvious these movies aren’t well made. I like the idea behind them, but when people start calling them “misunderstood” or “masterpieces”, they’re coping. No question.
1:39 really sucks that we will never have this reaction to a Star Wars movie like this ever again... and that saddens me...
Wow, my dude....this was well donen. Kudos!✌️
The NASCAR driver joining the Air Force reference was hilarious. 😂
"I wasn't alive when Star Wars: The Phantom Menace came out......"
Anyone else here feeling really old?
Episode I: Nute Gunray Commits Tax Evasion
Episode II: Palpatine/Dooku hires the worst Bounty Hunters’ in the Galaxy
I've analyzed this movie with a team of cheerleaders, and we came to one unanimous conclusion, that if I let them go, they won't tell anybody.
I can’t believe I just realized that Mike was the voice of Desmond in Smiling Friends
You can also see him for a split second when Charlie goes to hell
22:00 a protagonist and a main character are not the same thing. A protagonist exists to serve a function in a story. A main character just describes who the central action is focused around. The point of a protagonist is to have A CLEAR DESIRE with obstacles in the way that force the character to grow and change by the end of the story. This is storytelling 101. Luke is clearly the protagonist in a New Hope not just because the story focuses on him, but because his DESIRE is clear from the start of the film, and is the central focus of his character throughout the series. This is probably the worst part of this video because everything else is so on point, I cannot understand how one does not know what a protagonist is in the context of storytelling while participating in media criticism.
I honestly believe most people complaining about "minorities and women" in Star Wars wouldn't have cared a couple years ago if those characters had actually been written well. Leia, Padme, Ahsoka, etc. have been fan favorites and Star Wars wouldn't have gotten so big if people automatically hated these characters. Lando has been incredibly popular to the point they pulled him out for some key jangling for RoS.
I remember people being super excited when the trailers made it look like Finn would go from deserting Stormtrooper to jedi in the force awakens. I don’t even remember anyone caring about the color of his skin back then. That's just what the character looked like.
It's just that at this point (with all this stuff about ESG, DEI, etc.) coming out people have grown weary of it. People have been burned so much that they're reacting to it when it just looks like it may be going in that direction. These things have done more damage to the groups they claim to champion than good.
It was clear Reeva would get redeemed for the same reason you could tell who the traitor in Ahsoka would be. It's because Disney cares about these checkboxes that allow them to use people as shields to write off any legitimate criticism of bad product as -ist/-phobe...
Yeah I never cared about any of these things. It's having some billion dollar corporation selling me garbage and attacking my character (using people as shields like you said) that's been pissing me off. Claiming to help these oh so poor groups while actually just exploiting them.
It's knowing that if this project flops they’ll just write it off again. No criticism is valid as long as it can be dismissed as something bad.
more than that look at characters like Mara Jade, and Jaina Solo from the old lore extremely popular powerful characters, what we're seeing today is a result of honestly bad implimentations of these characters for browny points and its just not cool its not good for old fans and its not good for the people you are doing this for and all it does is breed resentment and paronoia and its a terrible state of affairs and I am sick of people pretending it isn't a problem or hiding behind these people as a shield
that said these people also need to keep calm and have a cool head, but I get that after years of basically being accused of being every bad thing ever you tend to become annoyed and angry
I genuinely despise the culture war because it has led to so many bad faith actors on both sides. I’ve always sustained the belief that it doesn’t matter if a character is male or female, just write them well. Heck, I really loved arcane and that had predominantly female characters in the cast. But the problem is simply a skill issue which is caused by folks who don’t take the time to think carefully about their stories, ask the right questions and try to make them matter but I suspect these folks want nothing but validation over a first draft and planting a flag. Never how they planted the flag or the goal. Just planting the flag.
You get enough of these projects that try to use stuff like that as a shield and eventually you just start to make the mental shortcut. You start with: this movie has unusually high focus on minorities and women -> the film makers are using that as a defence -> they must have done that to pre-emptively dissuade criticism -> this probably isn't going to be very good. After years of this the voice in the back of your head just starts saying: this movie has an unusually high focus on minorities and women -> yep I've seen this before -> this probably isn't going to be very good.
It's an intellectually lazy conclusion but the reason that it sticks around is because it's so often correct. It's important try and make sure that you aren't just giving in to bias but I often find it hard to blame those that do.
It doesn't help when the counter is the equally as intellectually lazy refutation of you don't like these films -> you hate the Identity groups of the people who made it. I'm a little disappointed in Sheev for implying that is a such a significant part of the criticism.
@@Avarn388 It's not a skill issue it's purposeful subversion of the movie industry by activists, mostly left wing supported by big money.
There are videos by these people how they subvert a company by acting professionally and as soon as they hit the critical mass they oust everyone else and try to keep themselves inside.
You may hate the culture war but you won't stop it with that attitude.
The Force cannot stop the Sith from existing, but it can balance itself. When Sidious's master attempted to subvert its design, it created Anakin as a counterbalance to punish them. That it needed to do this at all instead of simply preventing the subversion to begin with indicates it is not infallible. Theoretically the Sith could have beaten fate, essentially, if Luke did not reach out to his father. It is more so leading people along rather than forcing a set conclusion.
The nature of the Force's morality is a subject in and out of universe, explored most clearly by Kreia in the Knights of the Old Republic II, who sought to erase the Force because of the undue influence it has on others. Interesting subject that was tackled therein.
I think Qui-Gon might have accepted the race to test Anakin/help him grow, even without the deterministic outlook. I imagine he would prefer trickery to stealing, if possible.
In Legends someone somewhat let Bane's order slip, though only Yoda really grasped it, hence him being able to comment on it. In canon, unclear. Indeed, in the movie it is not really a contradiction with it not being spelled out as secret at that time.
Not certain if it should really be held in favour of the film, but the hyperspace lanes are often only in one direction, though it does bring up how they managed to get close from the other side. They might have entered farther away and flown in manually.
It is actually suggested the pod-racing controls are vaguely similar to the N1 controls in a way that was likely meant to allude to Luke's transferred skilled from the T-16 to the X-Wing (beyond just the "now this is" statement). Might have been the reason Qui-Gon thought he would be a good asset in the invasion, as well.
Well written post. It's so puzzling to me that these younger generation of Star Wars fans are so clueless on the nature of the Force, with many claiming to be Star Wars fans despite their clear animosity to the Force.
@@HYDRAdude I think the new canon does push it too far. Some believe that Obi-Wan managed to beat Vader in Obi-Wan, despite Vader being at his "prime", and Obi-Wan being out of practice, because the Force willed it, which would sap the tension from fights if it could act as such a force multiplier. I am not of the belief this is how it could function in Legends, usually (Oneness aside, which is a different context).
Watching those cheers when the title crawl starts and knowing where we went with SW from that point to now makes me sigh sooooo deeply
I will will always maintain that the one thing that the prequels did masterfully was World building and giving the Galaxy a sense of scale. The prequels felt so grandiose and alive versus the sequels that in spite of taking place in a massive Galaxy full of hundreds of planets and species felt so boxed in and small.
I will say this, the Force having a Will of its own led to what I would consider the greatest plot Star Wars has ever pursued and that would be Knights of the Old Republic 2: the Sith Lords.
R2 began as Padme's droid, Padme gave R2 to Anakin as a gift.
@@sorrenblitz805 Yes, and?
@@SheevTalks And so Obi-Wan never owned him.
It's funny how Qui Gon walks right by Quinlan Vos in Mos Espa and doesn't ask if he can perhaps help out and give them a ride.
I think in one of the EU stories, Quinlan Vos approached Qui Gon and said sorry he couldn’t get involved because he was on an important mission.
@@AmericanImperium1776 Quin was also kind of a dickhead and a bad influence Obi-Wan, so Qui-Gon probably didn't want him around.
"You blew up my ship!"
"Had to be done. Besides, good Jedi aren't supposed to have attachments."
"We didn't blow up *your* ship."
"Well, yes, I'm not a very good Jedi."
Beginning montage so long I forgot I was watching Sheev
Very thoughtful take, looking forward to watching more.
31:00 Literally every point that is made in the opening crawl of a new hope then has a corresponding scene that illustrates and deepens those points in an engaging and memorable way... It's not the crawl itself thats the issue but that fact that idiots online try to use it to undermine the fact that the plot in episode one is difficult to follow.
I think an interesting fix for the contrivance that Qui Gon found Anakin simply by "chance" is if the jedi had been aware that there had been a vergence in the force on Tatooine (similar to how they had been aware that there was a vergence during The Acolyte) and they had yet to find the cause of it. So when fleeing Naboo, they might instead have a few options for where they would hide and Qui Gon chooses Tatooine in the hopes of killing 2 birds with one stone. This "fix" is probably flawed because I just came up with it on a whim but I think it could work. Of course the movie decided to go with "it was the will of the force" instead
The prequels were a Lucas Films tech demo, designed to show off ILM’s latest CG chops and license the tech to other studios.
I once heard the prequels described as “bad films, but good stories,” and I’m inclined to agree with that sentiment (as a broad generalization).
I always really liked/enjoyed the prequels growing up, despite their many flaws. Once I was an adult, I could admit “yeah, these movies aren’t very good” but I still liked them for what they were. And I think the story at its core is solid and compelling, be it imperfectly executed.
Edit to add: Wow, your review of Episode 1 aligns quite closely with my own take, especially when it comes to midi-chlorians (which are more or less just mitochondria). Also, brilliant use of Alastor!
Not reading that essay...
@@kieranhurst8543 (1) Three tiny paragraphs hardly qualify as an “essay.” (2) If you cannot be bothered to read, don’t bother to comment.
Yeah I've read a lot of sentiment that the prequels have an excellent story in mind, but it was executed rather poorly.
The Darth Plagueis novel gives even more context to the background of The Phantom Menace, which, after you read the book or listen to the excellent audiobook, makes the film seem actually quite disappointing that all of the action told in the book happening at the same time as the film are never acknowledged on screen.
Darth Plagueis is never mentioned until the third film, even though nearing the end of the book, he learns that Anakin is the product of Plagueis' meddling of the Force 10 years prior to the film and was about to get his hand on the boy, until Qui-Qon just in time got him presented to the Jedi Council.
@@_MaZTeR_ I haven’t read the books, but I may give them a shot since that sounds quite interesting.
The thing about Darth Jar Jar is that according to Ahmed Best, George actually did have plans to make Jar Jar the true Phantom Menace. Obviously he'd have dropped the dumbass persona, butafter how much hate Jar Jar received, George dropped that idea.
The anti-Prequels discourse is why we got the Sequels. Remember that.
1:38:50 "well it seems this hangar is completely exposed" tbh, they are droids, making the hangar air tight would be unnecessary cost, and would allow enemies (which are usually living beings that need oxygen) to just be there freely.
however this doesn't excuse the complete lack of defense.... like you'd think they'd have turrets inside or something to defend an open hangar, but i guess since that'd stop Anakin, defending the hangar would be against the will of the force.
I do agree that it's extremely contrived that Anakin was able to fly into the hangar bays without getting picked off by vulture droids, but the lack of internal defenses in the control ship isn't that weird. The Lucrehulk Class is a converted cargo ship - it wasn't designed specifically for combat, while the Invisible Hand, which you reference as a counterpoint, was. The Lucrehulk is a big hollow donut filled to the brim with fighters, troops, munitions, and nothing else.
To be fair, that's never communicated in the film, so the scene is being hard carried by the expanded lore, which has varying legitimacy depending on your perspective. However, I think it follows logically that the Trade Federation, a megacorporation, would cheap out on defenses for ships basically designed to fleece poor defenseless planets that ordinarily would not be able to mount an adequate resistance to them. You've indicated all the reasons why a fighter getting into the hangar bays wouldn't be a big problem already by describing the improbability of someone surviving the vulture droid gauntlet there to begin with.
Regarding your commentary on Force determinism - this is actually the antagonist's central thesis in Knights of the Old Republic II. Kreia specifically regards the force almost as a malevolent entity that causes untold suffering for inscrutable reasons. KOTOR II came out years after Phantom Menace, I just think it's interesting that your critique lines up so closely with the one delivered in the narrative of that game.
That said, Force determinism is a subject that doesn't have a hard and fast answer in universe - Anakin is the chosen one, notionally, but the implication seems to be that Star Wars doesn't follow hard determinism. The Force moves people in certain directions by giving them feelings or premonitions, but the existence of the Dark Side is an aberration. The major and central question is whether the dark side of the force ontologically corrupts people, or if the dark side exists because people corrupt the force by attempting to control it. Either interpretation completely changes the nuance of the universe, and I don't think Lucas ever clarifies that. The Legends lore has entire philosophical arguments on that track, which I feel gives a great deal more depth to the subject of the Force cults than the movies have, but that's not without controversy and is extraneous to the films.
"would cheap out on defenses for ships basically designed to fleece poor defenseless planets that ordinarily would not be able to mount an adequate resistance to them."
But they were also said to be "battle hardened" and these ships were called "battleships" by the crawl.
Also it's just an internal contradiction that the pilots said the "shields are too strong" AND the Stunted Slime guy says "impossible (for someone to have gotten inside), nothing can get through our shields".
So the whole "lasers can't get through but ships can, pilots just hadn't thought of flying inside" argument doesn't even work here.
"Anakin is the chosen one, notionally, but the implication seems to be that Star Wars doesn't follow hard determinism. The Force moves people in certain directions by giving them feelings or premonitions,"
The notion of this "prophecy", apparently an ancient one, coming true in one way or another, even if people are unsure what exactly it means etc., also contradicts the "always in motion the future" notion - so either prescience works in 2 ways here, dep. on the case, or it's a contradiction.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf
"But they were also said to be "battle hardened" and these ships were called "battleships" by the crawl."
Yes, against pirates and small governments that owed them money. They're called battleships on the basis of mass, but by the time the Clone Wars started are outgunned in almost every conceivable way.
"Also it's just an internal contradiction that the pilots said the "shields are too strong" AND the Stunted Slime guy says "impossible (for someone to have gotten inside), nothing can get through our shields".
So the whole "lasers can't get through but ships can, pilots just hadn't thought of flying inside" argument doesn't even work here."
Fair point, I was mostly thinking about the fighter envelope. The most charitable interpretation I could give that is that they're shocked that something survived the fighter envelope to get into the shields, but that's not what the sentence literally means.
@@yopiumtrader222 "They're called battleships on the basis of mass, but by the time the Clone Wars started are outgunned in almost every conceivable way."
Maybe that's how the EU did it, it wasn't in the movies though and there were no indictions for that.
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf Completely fair.
@@yopiumtrader222 Btw I meant indications lol
I just rewatched the original trilogy so I can say the following with some confidence:
1. The decision to make the Jedi monks was a change made for the Prequels. Suddenly the Jedi are quasi-aesthetics or Buddhists and cannot have emotional attachments to other people, which the narrative justifies. I'm curious why you didn't talk about this, because in my opinion, this is the most shockingly stupid change from the Original Triolgy. The Force is supposed to be a connection between all living things, but Jedi are meant to sever their connections with others and isolate themselves in a temple on a city sized planet? It makes zero sense and also makes the Jedi look like freaks.
2. In Return, Yoda says "I am strong with the Force" and "the Force is strong in your family". Evidently, Force sensitivty was already concieved back in the Original Trilogy. So I don't accept your justification of Midichlorians. They are a redundant inclusion that serve to demystify and materialise the Force.
3. As others have mentioned, you misinterpreted the notion of the 'will of the Force'. Your conclusion that the Force is an omnipotent being that plans and controls everything does not follow from Qui-Gon's dialogue in this film. The Force desires balance, which doesnt make sense given there are two established sides to the Force. Bringing balance involves eliminating one side, which is another stupid change.
I agree with a lot of your arguments in this video, but I think you're a bit eager to shit on Plinkett given you made a lot of mistakes yourself.
17:34 But also, didn’t someone from Naboo send a distress message to Padme?
1:26:18 What? Is that what people got from the OT? That the Force can be used by anyone? I thought that Force is an energy field that exists and that some people are born force sensitive and can command the Force but also the “anyone can use the force” bs came from TLJ not OT, Sheev wtf?
You have now become my favorite Star Wars reviewer … I love the prequels but even I know they’re very flawed movies but I appreciate your way of brushing aside the opinions of the fanboys and haters to come to a more balanced review
4 is pretty harsh. He says it's the middle of the PT, and no contest better than sequel trilogy by far, but that can't be true because we're already in the bottom half of the scale. The sequels can't be a 1, they aren't Jesus Franco films, so they are a 2-3, as compared to the PT ranging from 3-5? Really?
@@billjacobs521I don’t know … I agree with most of his points even though I love Lucas Star Wars. You can still like something while still criticizing it. I like that Sheev didn’t regurgitate RLM’s misconstrued points but acknowledged that there are indeed flaws in the PT … especially in TPM. That’s just me though.
I think the unfortunate truth I’m facing after listening to so much Star Wars media is that Star Wars is kinda dumb. Fun but dumb and confusing as hell.
Whenever smart ideas _are_ introduced, they're immediately painted over with broad stroke spectacle. It gets tiring after a while. ESB and ROTS in some parts, and KOTOR2 in full (plus maybe the Thrawn trilogy, I was never interested enough to read it) were the only bits of Star Wars that truly escaped this trap in my opinion. Until Andor, that is.
I think there is plenty that is deep and timeless, AND plenty that only a child would like, AND plenty that no one much likes. They’re special in that respect.
Depends on the media. Much of Star Wars is shit, but you are going to be very, very sorely disappointed if you actually consistently point that level of critical thinking at most fiction, not even just pop culture juggernauts. Hint; a lot, if not most, pieces of fiction are average at best, shit at worst. I know that's a platitude and abstract thing people sometimes say or think, but it's quite another to actually KNOW that. The average is called....average, for a reason. Making good, nevermind excellent, fiction, is really, really God damn hard.
@@AthEE_OneNah. I dunno what you classify as 'smart ideas', and I don't much care either, but in terms of pure quality, the OT are minor masterpieces that can and do stand withs one of the best fictional properties, Andor is unironically that but for TV (although perhaps to a lesser extent), and there are several EU properties that can more or less be classified as excellent as an overall package; KOTOR 1 and 2, the ROTS novelization (the closest SW has ever truly come to being 'high brow', for whatever that's worth to most), as well as things like Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, Star by Star, Traitor, and a few others.
its super dumb if someone doesnt like something that happened in a fight it goes he should of just force pushed them off a cliff, should just force pull the saber and stab them
Looking back it’s sad that only Star Wars content I think is actually good is og trilogy,andor, some clone wars, and the last hour of rogue one…
Attack of the clones is my favorite movie, watched it a million times as a child. That was my autistic time to watch the same movie multiple times as a kid
It's got a good soundtrack, Christopher Fucking Lee as an iconic villain, Jango Fett, a cool space battle midway through, lots of new vehicles, a much more realistic ground battle than anything in the OT, oh, and did I mention Christopher Fucking Lee.
@@AJadedLizard The "Attack of the Clones" half of it is cool, the Blunders on the Meadow half is something else entirely.
I was obsessively rewatching it and exploring the DVD for a few years after release, trying to convince myself the whole movie was good and solid i.e. as good as the good half, then gave up lol - by the time of RotS I was disillusioned with this series and just took on a hit-and-miss perspective.
"they must be dead by now, destroy what's left of them" takes me out every time 🤣
Great video. Thank you for covering the inconsistencies with R2-D2 and the narrative. I've been thinking about all those questions surrounding R2 since ROTS came out!
Stellar video man, very well thought out and put together. 👏 Mad respect for taking on the Plinkett reviews too, brave man to do that lol. I'm generally an RLM Stan, but the community truly does hold those Plinkett reviews to a ridiculously, unreasonably high standard. They're well done, influential, fun and funny reviews, not definitive facts about the issues with the prequels
I agree with most of what you say, but you are off on several key points.
To the “boringness” of the title crawl… it is badly written and emphasizes the passive trade dispute. Yes, it contains the information, but easily could be fixed by starting with “The small planet of Naboo is being overrun by deadly battleships. The greedy…”
That would change the emphasis.
To the senate scene, it should have been MORE dry and boring like the real government.
That could have been where Padme breaks her somber exterior for the first time public-ally, or where QiGone becomes so frustrated that the will of the force is being broken that he creates an outburst used to seed the Jedi as being “against democracy”.
There is more, but this is a RUclips comment, not a video reply.
Yeah I get that wars start with tax and trading disputes and shit, but it’s just boring to have that be the main conflict in such expository detail of the first Star Wars movie since 1983
You don't go much into how the world of Star Wars is hard deterministic, which is kind of a problem when you build so much of your critique on it. All the prophecy says that there will be a person who brings balance to the force by destroying the sith. It's not saying that the sith will forever be gone. It doesn't say whether Sheev is the last of the sith. It doesn't even say that Anakin is the chosen one. The prophecy could have still been fullfilled even if Vader didn't kill Sheev. That chosen one could have appeared in another millenia since Sith only operate by the Rule of Two anyway. Hell, if you take any of the EU or Disney as canon the sith still exist later on in some ways. You are correct that the prophecy just kinda is too vague to mean anything and it ultimately is pointless but it seemed only there anyway to have it subverted showing that you can't rely on such a thing even if it ultimately became true at the end (if you only take George's vision into account back when he made the third film and never planned to do another movie).
The Jedi believed that Anakin was the Chosen One simply because it was their best option, especially when this super force sensitive kid shows up at the same time the Sith return. But also shows that the prophecy isn’t infallible as Anakin falls anyways. I always loved that the prophecy didn’t work out how the Council thought that it would.
My favorite starwars channel
31:36 not only is the title crawl attempting to convoy more information, it’s doing it in an overly complex way. Breaking it down we first hear that turmoil has engulfed the galactic republic due to the taxation of trade routes. So we’re assuming the taxation of trade routes is what is causing the Republic turmoil. So why would the Trade Federation want to resolve this matter? And what about this makes them greedy? After this we hear about the congress in the Republic endlessly debating until finally getting information on what we are immediately about to see which is that two Jedi Knights have been secretly dispatched to settle the conflict.
The amount of political moving parts described to us in the crawl is much more extensive than the simply story of rebels attempting to flee a pursuing empire with plans to their ultimate Super-weapon. The crawl for the Phantom Menace can’t even accurately explain the relationship the Trade Federation and Republic have to the taxation of the trade routes. It implies that the republic is in turmoil due to the taxation, even when they themselves are the ones taxing them. So it becomes increasingly confusing the decipher what relationship the Trade Federation has to not only to the trade routes but also to the Republic itself. Obviously by my elaborate explanation you can also deduce that the plot laid out is significantly more confusing than the one in A New Hope, where the objectives of each faction are clearly laid out
Great video! This might be the most fair review of this movie ive ever seen.
Also, i agree with your ranking of the prequels
I am curious to hear your thoughts about some of the various fan edits that hope to improve the prequels into something a little better. Obviously certain structural issues can't be fixed, but reincorporated some deleted scenes and cutting out a lot of the silliness can make a huge difference and make the movies a lot better in my opinion.
53:24 you end up repeating almost each and every point that RLM had made. 😂😂
he straight up said early in the video that he agreed with a lot of what they said
@@MrStarman926 so does Cosmonaut. So what's up with the taking shots crap?
He's not taking shots Doofus he's coming to similar conclusions but for different reasons. If you paid attention to the video you would get that
22:09 it’s not true that the Protagonist in a story is the character a story focuses on the most. The more “Literary” type of definition you looked for (& said you did not find) is that the protagonist is the character who *undergoes change* in the story. Obviously, not always perfectly true, especially in more modernist or Post-modern narratives. But generally, protagonist is the one who undergoes change
Take for instance Ferris Bueheler’s Day Off - one could argue that Ferris is the main character. But, Ferris is not funamentally changed by the events of the film. In fact, a lot of the fun & humor of it is that Ferris remains a rapscallion by the end of it. It is actually his friend Cameron who is the protagonist, because he undergoes change. Cameron is living in the fear of his father, & is afraid to live life on his own terms & stand up for himself & be who *he* wants to be. (spoiler:) By his big fear of damaging his father’s car being realized, Cameron actually changes & is willing to take responsibility & admit what he did, & face the wrath of his father. Bueller is there to motivate this plot with Cameron & to provide most of the humor of the film, but he is not fundamentally the protagonist; he is more of a “clown” or “jester” figure (i think that’s the term for this type of character - not sure)
I think in this sense, it’s fair to say Qui Gon Jin is *not* a protagonist, because he doesn’t really change much or develop as a person. Nobody does in Phantom Menace
I realize I might be leaving details from Ferris Bueller out & maybe forgetting things from Phantom Menace that might be relevant. I just wanted to quickly make this point because I think it is worth considering
Thanks for reading & thanks for the video!
A better way to link the droids' storylines is if in Ep3, Bail Organa took the dorids for himself, so R2 and C3PO became Leia's droids because they were Padme's droids. Giving them to Antilles makes it more of a stretch unless Antilles is Bail's only trusted captain.
Meh Antilles seems like a big guy with a significant name.
In either case R2 should've kinda indirectly "belonged to Obiwan" and then joined up with the more clueless 3PO much later, that's the real backstory.
The one in the movies doesn't jive, and the "wipe the memory" doesn't work other than as a sadistic gag and funny moment.
Them just being given to Antilles instead of Bail keeping them isn't one of the problems here, it's everything else lol
The phantom menace may not be a good film, but it’s certainly a unique one. It’s better to be a movie that tries than something that doesn’t
To me the main problem with this movie is the first part before leaving Nabbo feels like we cut out every scene that isn’t needed for the story, leading to the pacing feeling like we jump from point to point. Outside of that, I love this movie
Not quite sure what you mean?
@@WreckageBrother-rd5zf The pacing of the story feels like it moves extremely fast at the start of the movie.
I appreciate you trying to challenge the Plinkett reviews. Critics must be open to criticism and I love listening to good ones. I don’t find your counter arguments to be convincing though.
As for Palpatine’s plan: Do you honestly expect us to believe that you got all of that from watching the movie? I didn’t, and most people didn’t watching it back than. It’s not that this is some subtlety you have to figure out, it’s just presented badly. Mike’s aimless ponderings are part of the act, the argument about it being not clear isn’t. He is being Plinkett in this moment, it’s not necessarily what Mike thinks. You made a point about distinguishing that and I think you have to give Mike the benefit of the doubt that he actually figured it out. He just purposefully plays the average movie viewer who doesn’t pay attention to all details, or reads about it online after the fact.
As for the opening of new hope: You don’t need the title crawl to know what is going on. I didn’t when I was 5, watching it for the first time in a language I did not understand back than(english). That’s the genius of the visual story telling and, which becomes important in the reviews, the editing.
I agree on your criticisms about the politics argument. I found it to be one of the redeeming qualities of the prequels. The parallels to the Weimar Republic was immediately clear to me. And I appreciated the bloated bureaucracy of the ‘good’ republic and it’s corruption.
"Mike’s aimless ponderings are part of the act, "
You mean the parts where he mistakes the Trade Federation for a "bureaucracy handling space taxes" even though they're clearly a distinct entity with their own "royal" boss leaders etc.?
Or when he says "if she signed the treaty then the crisis would be over and there'd be no need for a vote of no confidence", even though that wouldn't have ended the "crisis" at all?
Well intentional or not, they are aimless ramblings, so yeah lol.
Either way yes, SheevTalks does leap to conclusions here, just like Plinkett does in his own way (when he makes assumptions about what the plan is then and then points of "contradictions" in it) - "it's unclear" is the real answer.
Plinkett's reviews are 95% bs. They are some of the worst videos on the internet and that's saying something. Almost nothing they say has any substance at any point.
And your lack of engagement with a movie is not the fault of a movie. It's not "badly presented" because an idiot doesn't get it. Badly presented is when it can't be gotten or is unintentionally ambiguous, something of that nature. "Insufficiently dumbed down" or "not repeated enough or said loudly enough for someone who doesn't pay attention to get it" are not valid criticisms.
I know I'm five months late but- great video!
After watching the portion of the video talking about the Plinkett review I decided to go back and watch it myself and I've gotta say, I think your own criticism of their review is in bad faith. I think you're interpreting things from the review that it's not really saying.
For example, he doesn't say they could have poisoned the tea the Jedi did drink. He's saying if you do poison the tea they'll drink it because they aren't even being cautious.
He had just pointed out they drinm the tea even as they sensed something was wrong about the situation. And he also says, "THEY'LL drink it" as in they WILL drink it. The tense alone shows you he wasn't saying they had an opportunity to poison the tea they already drink but rather that if you bring them more tea that's poisoned they'll probably drink it.
Really, I think the point is about the lack of caution from the Jedi and not the failure to kill them intelligently. I think he talks about that as well but that wasn't the point in that moment.
The Prequels suffer from first draft syndrome and the Sequels from Rewrites