The trouble with mini roundabouts is they lead to everyone waiting for everyone else. Someone then has to decide to go, most likely two at the same time.
In this situation I find that the drivers who simultaneously decide to ‘unlock’ the situation that do so with caution giving everyone chance to avoid each other, it is common sense and not dangerous----usually accompanied with a smile.
Mini roundabouts are perfectly fine. It doesn't matter how many vehicles are in the roundabout as long as people actually slow down to match the speed of the other vehicles entering. Normally people just bomb it down even from far away and expect others to give them way when in reality you give way to the vehicle already entering the roundabout. The idea is to allow traffic to flow constantly froma all directions, not to stop and wait for all.
The other problem is this idea of giving way to cars on and approaching, we have some here where you only have a cars length of visibility, on some approaches, but the other approaches have good visibility, so they tend to no slow down, but once you start moving you may suddenly find a car coming from the right will usually get angry because he assured you will give way to someone you can't see untill it's too late 🧐
I have two phrases I keep in mind, "priority is given not taken" and "if someone has stopped for seemingly no reason, take a moment to figure out what that reason might be".
The last one could save a heap of trouble! The sudden pull into a junction before swinging out in a U-turn, is a common crash on clip channels. Knowing what they're intending to do & how that might affect you, is key. Too many don't pause to think.
@@TheCatBilbo Yep, another one I see a lot on dashcam channels is someone stops to let a large vehicle through a gap, the vehicle behind automatically overtakes them without thinking why the car in front suddenly stopped. Said vehicle then comes face to face with a big lorry, forcing them to do the reverse of shame.
Well explained, and exactly how I treat mini-roundabouts. If I'm the blue car and see the red car is stationary, I'll give-way to them, but only give them a couple of seconds to move. If they just sit there not moving, I'll carefully proceed. I see it quite often in the mini-roundabouts in my area, where it seems a lot of older drivers don't seem to know what to do. They either sit there motionless when they have priority, or just dive out without looking when they have someone already on the junction to their right. If I see cars approaching from the other two roads at a similar time, I'll try and adjust my speed to not arrive at the same time to avoid the 3-way lock-out where all three drivers are sat there waiting for someone to go first.
It isn't only older drivers not knowing what to do. Thanks to the abysmal quality of driving instructors these days many younger drivers also have no idea how to tackle a mini-roundabout, or much else if it comes to that.
I passed my UK driving test today, thanks to your videos. Truly grateful for your content, Richard. I will continue to follow your channel to keep on learning & improving. Thank you❤
Congratulations - enjoy your driving! My advice to new drivers, for what it's worth: concentrate - having a chat & constantly looking at a passenger is enough time for something to happen. Stopping distance - often longer than you think you need. Closer you get, more risk of a collision. Let other's mistakes go, we all make them. Be relaxed, it's never a competition 😊
This is the fundamental defect of the rotary system and, I suspect, why they are so rare in the USA. At every junction someone should always have priority. If it really is a case of no priority then this is what traffic lights were invented for. Near the M4, where I live, most all the roundabouts are controlled by traffic lights anyway !
I find the way to approach a mini roundabout as that black car, if knowing that a particular mini roundabout commonly has people not giving way to you and going straight ahead (or just ANY mini roundabout), is to get onto the roundabout, indicating right, slowing right down and ready to stop, staying in your "lane" as it were, not pulling across them, assessing their speed and whether they have seen you and realised they need to stop. That will best show the person going straight ahead your intentions, but you are also going slow enough to stop if needed, regardless of whether the person going straight ahead is in the wrong. If the black car stays back and hesitates to enter the mini roundabout, it gives mixed signals and confuse others, as explained in the video
In the mock test video, your driver definitely slows down - she presses the brake and the bonnet dips. So, I'd say well aware of the need to give way. She then decide that's it's safe to go, as the black car isn't moving.
me too - the black car yeilded, for reasons unknown. I also think that by the time the car made the decision to continue, the black car could easily still enter the roundabout without causing any issue to either vehicle
Hello blue car here. I tend to just wait for the red car to move if they are stopped. Why I do this is because I have had many times where the red car have suddently jump into the roundabout no longer paying attention to my car and almost hitting me. I no longer trust the red cars.
Surely as it’s a mini roundabout the blue car should yield to the red car or any car approaching from the right, it’s not the same as a standard roundabout where a car already on the roundabout has priority. Of course you could get a Mexican stand-off if there’s a yellow car approaching from the opposite direction to the blue car.
@@MRCAGR1 Yes, it's the fact that car isn't doing anything that poses the question. We've all sat in a three way pause, I'm sure! The advice is pause to see if they'll move, otherwise carry on. Key is being aware of them & what they might do.
Hi Richard, thanks for the guidance with your videos and shared knowledge, I passed my test today as well. But I will keep watching your videos as they help improve my driving skills.
Wanted to say thank you so so much for all your fantastic videos, I started watching them when I began learning to drive last year and passed today with 2 minors. Your videos have helped a ton to help with a foundation for driving and are so informative, really appreciate you taking the time to make all this content ❤️
Great video. I have driven circa 25,00 miles a year for the past 40 years and never cease to be amazed by the lack of understanding of roundabouts. On your video commentary, I would also add that in the circumstance of the black car on the 2nd roundabout, if that had been me and I had seen your car, which I'm sure is well marked as being a learner, I too would have not entered the roundabout 🙂
I've had tonnes of experiences on mini round abouts where the traffic coming opposite me want to turn right and doesn't indicate. This has kinda of made me hesitant and want to wait to see what they're doing and only going when I know I can go. Whilst waiting giving way to my right, the car to my right was stationary, but there was a car coming opposite me (they did go straight ahead and not right) But because the van behind me was inconvenienced for 3 seconds, they beeped twice. There's an actual brain rot on the roads guys, do not be pressured into doing what someone else wants you to do, and go at your own pace, even if that's taking an extra few seconds to observe.
I presume when you say vehicles opposite you, you’re on the left with an exit on your left and not the person who has priority regardless if they are turning right or not
@@pwners4u yeah so on the mini round about, they are coming onto the roundabout, opposite me on the other side of the road. If they are coming onto the roundabout, the person to my right will have to give way to them.
Great video for learners. Although I must say I’m a traffic cop, and I think you were perhaps a little harsh on learner driver, I think that was fine. you are technically right, but few police officers would ever blink twice at that. But standards should be high when learning, so I think you have a good point, especially if they genuinely didn’t know the car could present an issue. Personally I hate mini roundabouts, or at least many implementations of them. Some are so inappropriate and problematic, especially in very high traffic areas when you get vehicles at all junctions at the same time and you get a stalemate!
I passed my test many years ago, in fact before the presenter was born, my Ex Police instructor rammed into me the rule, Always Give Way to the Vehicle to your Right, in addition at a Mini Roundabout you should always consider if you have time to cross without impeding a Vehicle directly ahead of you and if their Road position and or signals indicate they are crossing your path, I continue to practice this, and I have never caused a collision or near miss at a Mini Roundabout or indeed any Roundabout or Junction-Julie
In Victoria, Australia we give way to vehicles already in the roundabout. Give means slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision. Therefore in your diagram the blue car would be fine to go. And why not, if it's safe why waste the opportunity? Roundabouts were built to flow. The whole priority to the right doesn't exist here in Victoria, Australia. Our rule about giving way to vehicles already in the roundabout basically means we do not have to give way to vehicles outside the roundabout if it's safe. Regardless, we need to be very careful as road users from the right might not be looking at us or approaching too quickly, etc. In that scenario we wouldn't enter first. Interesting video and interesting to see the way the rules work in comparison to Australia. Cheers.
different rules for different countries. as he stated, here in the UK we give priority to vehicles approaching from the right when on a roundabout. so on a big roundabout, that would be vehicles already on the roundabout, on a small roundabout that would maybe include vehicles on approach, on a mini roundabout you do need to take into account the approaching speed. many drivers have this attitude that if they get onto the roundabout before the vehicle to the right, they then become the vehicle to the right and now have priority. those drivers misinterpret the information. because there are so many different shapes and sizes of roundabout and its down to a judgement call by each driver, the highway code needs to say it in a way that it can apply to all those roundabouts which is why approaching from the right was added in. and if a vehicle is acting unusual like by not going when they should, it means risk is high. rule of thumb is if you can get all 4 wheels over the give way line before the vehicle to your right can get its front wheels over the line, its likely you will clear and not interupt the vehicle to your right.
@@douglasreid699 I agree with that rule of thumb. We pretty much teach the same here. However, the fact is in Victoria, Australia we do not have to give way to anyone that is outside the roundabout. It's all about the inside of the roundabout which basically means first in... But, lowering our risk by not moving in when someone else is clearly going to move in first, must take precedence. The issue with giving priority to the approaching right vehicle is that many drivers stop when they don't need to. That's why the give way rule in Victoria, Australia makes sense - "slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision." Once a driver understands how to assess the danger of collision and only stop if necessary, they can then enter a roundabout safely with approaching vehicles from the right. Again, this is in relation to the rules where I am. It's a very interesting discussion. Thanks for chatting with me constructively about this. It's nice. Cheers!
@@CRUDEDriving The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 Schedule 9 Part 6 on legislation.gov.uk is your friend here. Vehicular traffic approaching a roundabout with a small central island or approaching a junction indicated by the marking shown in item 5 of this sign table (*the dotted lines*) should give way at, or immediately beyond, the line _to traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout_ Since there was no traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout for the driver to give way to, giving them a serious fault for that is an error.
We had a notorious mini near us where this was a constant problem. The stationary car was usually stationary because it was impossible to see traffic approaching from their right until it was two car lengths away from the roundabout. To be able to see you had to pull into the roundabout, and you can imagine what fun that caused. Add in traffic from the stationary car's left not stopping because they could see something coming or because they were not looking or just entitled, and accidents were common. As ever, patience and politeness wins the day. They have repainted the mini recently and now you can see down all routes equally well. Probably done by accident, but it is now free flowing. Huzzah! 🤨
You gave exactly the correct definition, you give way to approaching traffic from the right but your stated action was incorrect. The whole point of a roundabout be it a mini or a normal roundabout is to maintain traffic flow by approaching at a safe speed and be prepared to stop. At roundabouts we have Giveaway markings, not Stop markings, therefore if on approach you see a stopped vehicle on the right then do not automatically stop. You should be telling your pupil to use their observation skills and evaluate the situation before deciding if stopping is appropriate in the given situation.
It's great to see an Ashley quote here, but let's be real. The highway code exists to provide a framework of when you can expect priority to be given. If someone acts like a pleb and ignores the code by driving dangerously, that is when you apply "priority is given, not taken".
I have to disagree. I assume that both parties know who has right of way if we had to assume that other people don't know then the driving experience in busy traffic would be very slow. I'd say take your priority but slow enough that you can stop if need be. This isn't fool proof but driving to prevent 100% accidents isn't a reasonable cost balance either.
Depends what country you're in probably cuz I definitely wouldn't wait. You only need to give way to cars already on the roundabout where I live. If they're approaching they have to slow and give way to you if you're already entering
That's such a mad reason. It would basically be saying "Yeah that car to your right is travelling quite fast towards the roundabout, and there is nothing to its right so it doesn't need to stop, but it is half an inch before the give way line so you can safely ignore it." :D
Spanish way, short and clear explanation: the round about is a independent and separete lane/road. If the vehicle coming from the right is not inside the round about lane you can go. Of course driving redpecting the speed limits make this to do it properly. Because if a car coming from the right is coming over speed it makes things worse.
I'd be PISSED if my one fault that caused a test failure was that not giving way to the black car incident on the mini roundabout. She proceeded perfectly safely, the black car didn't have to react to your driver, she reacted to the fact they weren't going & went herself, she slowed & then accelerated. Very very harsh.
I think most examiners wouldn't mark that as a serious fault. But instructors will try to mark every fault and will be harsher during mock tests so that you can avoid making those mistakes during the actual test.
This is very common in a mini close by where by blue is Stoughton to high street and red is emerging from town supermarket and car park. The view to the right for red is slightly obstructed and cars coming from their right are often coming at speed to go straight over. Which gives rise to a further conundrum who has priority when three vehicles arrive almost together.
Oh this happened to us the other day at a mini roundabout. My lad had his L plates on and I was the passenger. We approached a four way mini roundabout on the exit to a petrol station. Car on our right had nothing preventing them from moving, no traffic on their right, exits were all clear (and it had taken a minute for the roundabout to clear to this state), there was a queue of cars behind us, and a queue behind them, but there they sat, at their give way line, not moving. There were no other cars at the two other entrances / exits to the roundabout. We waited for them for around 30 seconds, at which point we were being harassed (honked at) by cars behind us, making the lad panic and stall. We corrected the stall, and I just told him to move off carefully. We went all the way to the right hand exit of the mini roundabout, and the person was still sat there at their give way line. No idea what their deal was. No hazard lights or any other indication that anything was wrong. Fortunately the entrance they were at was not wide enough for frustrated drivers behind to overtake and enter the roundabout. We did talk about this after, and I'm afraid I did use the 'not in the roundabout' point that you mentioned, but I did say about being super careful when "overriding" that priority like that. I also fervently hope that the situation doesn't arise on the actual test for him! Thanks for the videos
4 месяца назад+1
On approach, slow down enough to indicate with your position and speed (1st gear) that you are giving way as signs command you to. If the vehicle remains stationary, it is yielding back to you and perhaps is more comfortable proceeding behind. Once priority is yielded back, the ball is in your court and you should take initiative.
I get his almost daily on the school run - this exact set up. If the red car is stopped, I'll stop and wait to see if it moves (i.e. I give way). If it doesn't move, I'll carefully move off. As to the reasons the red car stops almost every day, there are many... kids crossing the road, itself giving way to the green car coming from it's right, letting their own kids out, and very occasionally just not paying attention.
I had this exact situation a few days ago. The other car was completely stopped. I raised my hand in a "you've got right of way" gesture and he then moved
It's perfectly ok to nip in in front of them if they are stationary because they are impeding traffic flow and they are not approaching if they are stationary.
The good thing about situations like this because everyone is going slowly mistakes rarely lead to serious accidents, usually just a bit of annoyed honking and everyone gets on with their day. Happens all the time even with drivers that have full licences!
Hi Conquer Driving, good work as usual!. There is one thing I saw at the start and that is the double broken line on the blue car route, this marking I understand top be a mandatory stop mark, drivers should come to a halt even when there is no other traffic. The other two approaches are single dotted lines where actually stopping is not required. The red car then should only be stopped because a car from his right is passing or about to, this car will also be turning right and has priority over the blue car. Seen from above as this is makes it very clear what is what the blue car faces a mandatory stop because no turn is required to go straight on, the other two both have to make turns as they proceed. Cheers, Richard.
@@garytoner4563 Hi Gary Toner, thank you for this response, I did realise my error a while later, I got a bit confused and forgot, now I am going to have to check what that double dotted marking is for, something to do with giving way but more so than the single dotteds. Anyway thank you again for the correction. Cheers Richard
@@richardharvey1732 From the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016: _7. The requirements conveyed to vehicular traffic on roads by a road marking provided for at item 3 of the sign table in Part 6 of this Schedule are-_ _(a) except as provided in paragraphs (b) to (d), that no vehicle may proceed past the transverse line which is the nearer to the major road into that road in a manner or at a time likely to endanger the driver of, or any passenger in, a vehicle on the major road or to cause the driver of such a vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident_
@@Captain-Cardboard Hi Captain Cardboard, I do like your internet handle!, thank foer taking the time and trouble to look up the relevant regulations, I do it myself sometimes but for me the reality of dynamic traffic situations normally inclines me to rely on the judgements I consider appropriate in the actual circumstances and in this one much for me depends on the way the red car is behaving, and whether or not it is stationary or moving, could it be waiting for a vehicle coming from it's right hand side and going straight on?. What I am saying is that my driving decisions are based on actual observations with decisions based on fundamental principles relating to most sensible practise rather than strict observance of any set of 'rules', for me since it first occurred to me I will take every opportunity to be kind and considerate of other people because such kindness makes me feel better!, that little buzz is worth more than the tiny bits of time I might gain by having to get there first, everything stems from the same fundamental principles that I apply because they make my life easier and more satisfying. Cheers, Richard.
I failed my last driving test because I was waiting at a mini-roundabout while the traffic was congested and there were cars stationary on the roundabout. I didn't want to fail for making the car on my right wait for longer by driving in their way on the roundabout, but apparently because I was waiting for so long while the cars on my right were giving me opportunities to go I was given a serious for hesitation and failed anyway!
I had a similar fail. A buss I was turning right we drive on the left. So I had to cross his path. He signed me to go. I didn't. And waited because I had heard you fail for accepting someone giving you priority. I failed too. Next time a car did the same. Just be sure it can only be you they were giving priority. As sometimes like at a busy cross roads with a person wanting may be they are letting them cross. And be sure it's safe by final check both ways then if still ok go. I did the second time and passed. Only 1 minor. Keep trying.
Sounds like some bad luck (and a grumpy examiner). As you'll learn when you do pass, sometimes there are "unwinnable" situations and you just have to do your best, in the safest way possible. I hope you're not too disheartened, and good luck for next time.
You need to make good progress at all times. Could cause an accident if the driver behind thinks you are going as they can see its clear and drives into the back of you.
@@stevenm9067that's still the fault of the car behind. If they just assume you'll go and don't check you actually have then their insurance will be the responsible one since only they were in motion at time of collision
At any give-way sign, you should assume you have to stop, and should slow accordingly. If you get to the give way lines and you notice the car has made no attempt to continue, you can proceed with caution.
Rules of roundabouts are simple, always give way to vehicles on your right. No exceptions, doesn't matter if they are stationary or not. The whole point of a roundabout is regulating flow of traffic and giving way to the right is key to that. At mini roundabouts this is most important because without giving way to vehicles waiting the whole point of the roundabout fails. That is what I was taught anyway and it has served me well over the last 37 years. In your example was the black car even indicating to turn, looked like it wanted to go straight on. Still your driver should have shown caution and missed a potential hazard so you are right to raise it.
The problem is when they suddenly move & you've committed. Sensibly, they could just back off & let you clear. Sadly, some will drive at you & sound their horn as 'punishment'. I pause & give them a moment - they might just be waiting to see what you'll do. Key is being aware of them!
Good video. Roundabouts are a great idea, but a lot of drivers don't understand how to use them properly. To be fair, even after 52 years driving all over the world I sometimes wonder if I'm doing it right, usually at the tiny roundabouts.
You talked about mini and spiral roundabouts. But there's the third one: The one that has a center island, and pedestrian island. So its unlikely a car behind the stationary vehicle would go counterflow or climbing up the center island with physical kerbs. On a daily basis I have drivers on my right not moving. Theyre hesitating or whatever is the reason after I have a full stop, few seconds wait I go with: "well... if you don't go, don't mind if I do" Possibly even doing that driver a favor too, since I am potentially shielding traffic so they can finally get confident to accelerate. At miniroundabouts its more awkward. Do to the reasons you mentioned someone can cut through, but there its situational. Either after the full stop I will start moving emphasizing that I am fully aware my acceleration speed is better than the stationary vehicle or I wait for a traffic from my front / right of the stationary car and will move when I get a shield.
I have a mini roundabout a couple of hundred yards from me that is incredibly busy, and if you get a hesitant driver who just doesn't go, you often end up with three cars parked there all trying to give each other priority. If somebody doesn't go, nobody does. So, I tend to make sure I break the deadlock if nobody else does first. I'm frequently amazed at how often you end up with three cars parked there, not knowing who should go.
Definitely a trend in the last few years of people who do not seem to understand and how to use them properly on the road. One thing I avoid doing which has gotten me out of trouble many a time, is I never cut a roundabout. The amount of people I see do that and treat it as if it is a junction and cause near misses is constant.
When in doubt think on the right in the right. Hence the red car has priority. This always used to be taught so if it isn't now that means driving instructors are not bothering with the highway code.
All common sense advice. The worst situation is the classic 'Mexican standoff'. Arriving at a mini roundabout with all other cars entering it at a standstill at their respective Give Way line, unable to decide who has priority 😂.
Way I look at it is that I have priority and just go for it. If we all hesitated waiting for others to do 'the right thing' we would never get anywhere.
You could also explain, using you diagram of the mini roundabout, the significance of the double broken white line (and yield markings on the road) the blue car encounters, compared to the single broken line at the other two entrances to the mini roundabout
Could you please make a video about crossroads? When to go nearside to nearside vs offside to offside? How should position themselves first in the middle? Intersections with priorities? And so on. Thank you!
Richard, as a long-time subscriber I HIGHLY respect your knowledge and attention to detail, but even after this follow-up video personally I still think you were too harsh to give the serious mark... Keerthi didn’t ‘just carry on through‘ and WASN’T unaware that she needed to give way - the footage clearly shows she used the brake and was slowing to give way, but then assessed that the car WASN’T ‘approaching from the right’ (it was already stationary for some time before she arrived at the roundabout). The vehicle behind it was not acting unpredictably. If the black car was to suddenly start moving and went correctly AROUND the roundabout (HC rule 188), it was unlikely that they would arrive in the same place at the same time. Keerthi read the situation, came off the break and proceeded. Like you said, if you make a car with priority change direction/slow down a minor amount it’s a minor fault, a major amount - a major fault. Keerthi slowed the black car down by NO amount while still being aware of it. Based on its speed and distance she judged that she had time to move in front of it ‘without making it break or change direction’, therefore committed no major fault in my opinion. The oncoming flow of traffic was affected by the black car’s wrong decision to stop unnecessarily... By stopping the black car signalled that - for whatever reason (maybe they didn’t know the rules? maybe they saw the L-plates and simply decided to hold back?) - it was actively YIELDING its priority; had it at least inched into the roundabout to assert its priority (it had space to safely make their intentions clear; hard to see if their right signal was on...) then you can see Keerthi was prepared to continue to break for them. Also, to be precise HC rule 185 says you ‘should’ give priority to traffic approaching from your right, not that you ‘must’. Annoyingly, only ‘must’ means you’re legally obligated to do it... The driving test checks whether you can drive in a ‘safe and legal’ manner. In this situation Keerthi was aware of roundabout rules, didn’t break any laws and made sure it was safe to proceed, therefore she drove in an aware, legal and safe manner, and as such didn’t IMO deserve the serious fault. Would it be a ‘good idea’ to stop to demonstrate that she knew the black car had priority? Yes. Does this situation serve as a valuable lesson and should we all be more mindful and courteous to our fellow drivers? Yes. Should it be marked as a serious fault? No. I understand that as an instructor you have to be strict during mock tests and err on the side of caution, but if she was failed for this on a real test in my opinion it would’ve been unfair.
i agree. I would have continued as it looked to me that would make no difference to the black cars decision to enter the roundabout - or it shouldn't have. If they don't know how roundabouts work, that's on them. My assumption would have been, as you say, they were yielding, for whatever reason. The student appeared to me to have slowed down sufficiently to abort entrance at any time that not giving way would cause an issue to the black car. By the time the student crossed the line, it was still perfectly fine for the black car to pull on to the roundabout, without causing issue to anyone
I do wish the instructor would have responded to your valid comment on the black car’s intension, out of respect firstly but to hear his response, to just ignore your point is as I say not good enough if he wants to be considered as he would like!
On first viewing, I thought the same as you Agaw and I still think a major it is a little harsh however I do wonder if Richard was assessing the "whole" situation and that was the particular fault which he chose to use. To be honest, you can see she slowed into the second roundabout and I would probably have done the same thing with 2million road miles under my belt (I've been a rep most of my life). I would say however that the way she switched lanes was borderline dangerous driving. Had she correctly approached the second and third roundabouts in the correct (left) straight ahead lane, she would have been further away from the black car and not had to switch lanes. By switching lanes with virtually no time to see what was to her left, potentially in her blindspot, and putting herself closer to the black car, I can see why it is definately a minor and why the whole manouver was pushing into a major. If Richard had said to proceed round the second roundabout and gone right at the third, I would have agree with your statement but (hopefully) he had told her to go straght ahead before they got to the first roundabout.
@@markkirby7600Hi Mark. Agreed; there was no need for Keerthi to go into the right lane in the first place on the second roundabout, considering that she was told to go straight on the third one (guess she might’ve thought that the left one might turn out to be a left-only lane?)... But if you watch back you'll see that Richard in fact gave two serious marks at this point. The way Keerthi went back to the left between the second and right roundabout cost her a major for ‘mirrors - change direction’ and I totally agree with that one, no problem. However, I don’t think that whether she entered the second roundabout in the left or right lane made any difference - the black car was still dithering (Richard said they were being ‘diligent’ and ‘waited patiently’ which personally I think is a bit of a generous assumption). So even if she was in the left (i.e. correct) lane - other than maybe giving herself a bit more time and space in case the black car started to move abruptly - in my opinion she still didn’t deserve the second serious mark for ‘junctions - observations’ as she did in fact observe correctly that the black car wasn’t ‘approaching‘, plus she appeared more than prepared to stop if it did [she had tapped the brakes]. So yeah, one of the majors was justly deserved. The other? Personally I still don’t think so.
@@Dee-u4rI understand that Richard is a busy man, considering it must take a long time to create the quality content that he does! So I didn't necessarily expect him to respond 😅 However, I still wanted to express an alternative opinion in case my interpretation and feedback might prove in any way beneficial or thought provoking to Richard, or others on the channel. Ultimately it's all about sharing knowledge and learning to be better drivers, and I'm certainly not trying to undermine Richard's generally fantastic knowledge and vast experience! I just didn't agree with his judgement on this particular occasion ✌🏻
A worse scenario is when you are directly opposite someone on the road ahead and a stream of cars from that lane (which is technically neither to your right nor left; but your intention to turn definitely means you are coming from their right) essentially expect you to wait for the traffic to clear before you turn right, or even fail to give way on the roundabout. They treat it as a normal right turn off a road into a side road. Note that this is exactly what happened at 6:20 in the video, but if one tries to be more assertive than the black car was, one risks a collision.
A mini roundabout in a junction like the one illustrated is just a "continuous flow" T junction and not a true roundabout. It's obvious to everyone who encounters these, which is why this sort of discussion always generates heat.
There is a roundabout near me where coming to the roundabout up to the T junction you have no view of traffic coming from your right due to a high wall and of course traffic from your right can see anything turning right from directly in front of them, which they should give way to, so they don’t slow very much. Anyone approaching the roundabout to the T consequently has to stop to see if they can go ( would help if drivers indicated). Giving way to moving traffic from the left would effectively make it a dead end.
As others have said , priority is given not taken. I’ve had situations like the second one and what usually happens is that you end up with a stand-off where everyone is just staring at each other across a roundabout.
The Highway Code is absolutely not as clear as you suggest when you read it out at 1:44. It says "give way to traffic approaching from the right" and goes on to say "and watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout". It does not say "give way to traffic approaching THE ROUNDABOUT from the right" and the fact that it specifically mentions "all OTHER road users ON the roundabout" means this could quite easily be interpreted as implying that the point about traffic approaching from the right must also be referring to traffic "ON the roundabout". This is because there are two categories being referred to, 1. Traffic approaching from the right, on the roundabout and 2. All other traffic on the roundabout. The word OTHER is the direct link between the two and the fact that the second part specifically states they are on the roundabout,yet the first part does not specify traffic approaching the roundabout, it is reasonable to assume all the traffic referred to must be on the roundabout. If you read it again with this alternative meaning in mind, it makes just as much sense. Therefore both interpretations are equally valid, so the Highway Code is completely useless to determine this issue.
The HC is generally quite useless for this sort of thing. As ever, if you want to know the law, you need to read the law. And the law much more clearly supports the interpretation you've described. TSRGD explicitly states that the normal white line (a single dashed line) at a roundabout entrance means you give way to traffic circulating on the roundabout. The diagram in the video is a bit different in that it shows a Give Way line (double dashed line) instead for the blue car. But even then, there doesn't seem to be anything about Give Way lines at roundabouts that creates specific priority for traffic approaching from the right that is not on the roundabout yet.
The issue described is semantic. The size of the roundabout will determine the degree to which you need to be aware of traffic approaching the roundabout. As in the video diagram where a tiny painted roundabout is exemplified, it is patently obvious that you must be aware of traffic which is approaching the roundabout from the right. This is because in this example, the blue car only has priority over a car on the first exit (straight over) and only then if the blue car intended to turn right. On a larger roundabout, as stated in the video, the likelihood is that you will not need to specifically pay attention to traffic approaching the roundabout as much as much as the traffic already on it. Some roundabouts being so large or having entrances and exits in such places as not to be visible by you. So whilst the Highway Code might not be useful in that specific application, it only needs a bit of common sense to fill in the blank. Otherwise the HC would have to have a subset of code depending on the size of the roundabout. The use of more generic terminology on this one makes sense.
@@stephenwakeman3074 I'm not quite sure what point you're making? The question raised in the video is specifically; should the Blue car give way to the Red car, not should it just be 'aware" of it as you say in your comment. That's a significantly different consideration. The highway code is clearly misleading on this, particularly the two paragraphs read out in the video.
"Approaching" implies active movement imo. If you have to give way to the stationery red car how far back from the line would it be considered that they are not yet approaching the roundabout?
The blue car is behind double white lines indicating that it should stop until no car approaches or enters from any direction then it is safe to continue or even turn right having signaled and pulled onto the right side of the lane
Really useful thank you. I got this wrong the other day because the approaching red car was not at the give way line on the mini roundabout I thought I would get onto the mini roundabout first and hence have priority (give way to traffic on the roundabout). But he didn't stop at his give way line. Awkward. Now I see my mistake. Will adjust accordingly!
The Highway code should be more explicit about mini roundabouts. It says the laws are identical to larger roundabouts, but as you say, you don't give way to approaching traffic if it has yet to enter the roundabout. Planning law says you can't put a MR on a road with a speed limit over 40, and they're frequently used for traffic calming. Having to give way to approaching traffic seems to me we're just converting MRs back to T junctions which they purposely replace.
Mini roundabouts are generally used to let traffic out onto busier/faster roads where limited visibility or something else such as heavy traffic precludes pulling out onto the faster road. In your example, it would be almost impossible in heavier traffic for the red car to pull out at all, so the priority is removed from the blue car or another approaching from the red car's right to allow traffic to flow more equally from each direction. It's contentious as most interpret it the way you have but the person who really knows what was meant is pretty clear (Director of Transport or something similar that came up with the roundabout directions for the current Highway Code). If you are not on the roundabout, you don't have priority. Merely approaching the roundabout DOES NOT give you priority until you are on it. Think of it this way although it doesn't work in all circumstances. If you have to cross a white line, whatever is the other side of it has priority. This also is spelled out better about turning into/out of junctions in the latest Highway Code. The only thing it fails on is off roundabouts as there's generally no line as you exit!
I was dubious clicking on the video, in my head thinking it’s a total no brainer. However, your introduction quickly shows the mentality of many drivers on the streets. Good video good point. At 4:25 whilst that might seem ‘technically’ correct, I would treat that the same as a zebra crossing - you’re at fault as soon as they enter their move. So at 5:06 you’re right, after stopping and then choosing to proceed - you can only do this when you’re observing everything. Even try to make eye contact. Your real life scenario was tough. I’m guessing on test you can’t tell what’s in their head, so many things they should emphasise safe moves. If I were the student I’d want to be able to verbally describe my decision there. And there is the added point the public may heed more caution towards an L cladded car. When you watch the dash cam clips, from other channels, there’s a lot of people pointing out the errors on one side. However, when it comes to mini roundabouts, there are many that are in the mindset that the rule only applies to vehicles on the roundabout like you say. I find it incredibly hard to get my head around how they believe that is correct and that can work. There is not a safety mentality applied nor a concept of ‘one second later’. They tend to lead with a “I got here first”. Just imagine a situation where all cars have come to a stop or instead have approached the roundabout at a 2 mph crawl… And then all vehicles from each entrance decide to go at the same time. It would be total chaos. And I suppose it is total chaos because there are many people without a true understanding of the highway code. They apply this mentality to parked cars on their side of the street too. There are also many other instances in the clips where people seem to think that a manoeuvre is okay, and yet that all the person had to do was avoid it. Or having to brake was okay, be that firmly or gently. It’s as if it’s normal every day type of driving. And I think that these people will drive at you in situations thinking that it’s okay to make you brake and avoid. People are choosing when you should brake, avoid, by driving at you. And the mindset seems to be that : that wasn’t close enough to warrant anything serious. On a motorbike this gets much more dangerous; they’re assuming your ability to change direction or your grip for braking in scenarios.
It has to be remembered that "Mock Tests" are not just tests but also part of training. Whereas on the mock test a serious fault was awarded and this would result in failing the test, on an actual test the candidate would more likely be awarded a minor fault. As a trainer you need to be thinking will the same situation occur on a test and we are told that at this series of roundabouts this type of scenario comes up sufficiently regularly for it to be given special attention. On one of these occasions is the situation exactly the same No, but quite similar and therein lies the problem of teaching in a way to maximise success in passing the test and also ensuring candidates continue to drive thereafter in as safe a way as possible.
The diagram you used to explain your point at the beginning of this clip clearly shows road markings and signage, a "giveaway to all traffic lane marking and signage and two give way to the right lane markings." These are common at three Lane mini roundabouts. It would have been useful had you explained there purpose in these mini roundabouts
Interesting to see that the approach road for the blue car has double Give Way lines and a Give Way triangle not normally seen at mini roundabouts. The other two approach roads have the normal single dotted lines for mini roundabouts
Drivers coming from the blue car's direction are liable to pay less attention to standard Give Way lines, given the lack of deflection on the route, so you'll often see the Give Way triangle in such instances. When it's used it has to be accompanied by the double-dotted lines and the painted triangle on the road.
@@Captain-Cardboard Excellent explanation, Thank You. I just always thought that for mini roundabouts, the road markings had to follow the standard of single dotted give way lines but your explanation makes perfect sense given the "minimal deflection" aspect from the blue cars approach going to the intended exit.
The other way to think about it is if they didn't want you to give way it'd just be a T junction, as many mini roundabouts were before they were changed to aid traffic flow.
and safety. because it means no matter what direction you’re coming from, there’s someone you have to give way to, forcing you to slow down and check. kind of a traffic calming measure
However, many people still treat them as t junctions, and red car is probably stopped to wait and see if blue car is going to stop. Like the black car in the live example.
We have this exact roundabout near home. I always give way and stop for the blue car. It becomes more complicated when the blue car is waiting for the green car coming from its right.
There is a problem when one road is more major, and so there is a steady stream of traffic along it which tends never to stop. Those in a side road have to nudge out, otherwise they’d be waiting for a very long time to go.
We have a same roundabout near us and we always give priority to the red car, unless there's another car approaching from the opposite direction, then the red car usually waits and we're all stuck there for a few seconds waiting for someone to make the first move 🙈🤣 then I usually go first. Lol
Wrong the black car was oncomming trafic. It was not aproaching from the right. and was not on the roundabout. the driver had every right and it was safe to proceed.
Why doesn't the Highway Code say to "give priority to traffic approaching the roundabout from the right" if that's what is meant? (Even if it did mean that, the black car at 6:14 isn't approaching from the right. It's approaching from straight ahead, so doesn't have priority over us.)
Maybe we would be technically in the wrong, I and I think 99% of other drivers would have done what they did in the video, if the black car is dithering like that, then I will take the initiative and go. If they had been moving into the roundabout I would wait for them no problem.
The entrance/exit is to the right with no intermediate entrances/exits. All roundabouts will at least have three exits; there will always be an exit to the right in terms of path around the roundabout.
For all people passing a test always give way to a vehicle from the right at a junction roundabout entering a motorway or duel carriage way. it is different on traffic lights only. and never stop in side a boxed Junction. it is all in the highway code book.
Nice to have an explanation of the rules, however so many drivers ignore them that they have become almost meaningless. Doubly so if the other road user is on a motorbike or bicycle. 😡
I find a common problem at mini roundabouts are drivers to your right that dither and hesitated when they have a clear road to their right. Usually elderly or foreign drivers not accustomed to the rules relating to roundabouts; (very often because they are driving on an international licence).
red car has clear priority but if red car is taking their time/indecisive/stalled/fiddling with buttons (most common reason)/not attentive, then the blue car has to assess the hazard of moving off. Sometimes mini roundabouts need one driver to make a move then the the rest follow road priorities. SO mamy times, they're not moving should we move instead. Ultimately a good driver will assess the whole situation.
I've only encountered this once. BT van stopped at the mini roundabout, I come to a complete halt, wait for a bit, van didn't move, so I go (carefully), then the van beeps their horn just as I'm exiting the roundabout (without having moved). It was weird.
I agree with others- we are can do with reminders on mini-roundabout discipline. I passed my test in 1968, but there is a 4-way mini roundabout near me which I always find slightly worrying, ie, who arrived first....
If there is an incoming car which the red car is having to wait for, then I am going to proceed. When people don't do this, the flow rate through these minis is pathetic. The Bigger question I ask is... if the red car has not arrived at the giveway, but is 2 or 3 car lengths back, should you give way? I seen a car approaching from the right, they were still a good 3 or 4 car lengths back, although approaching swiftly. I proceeded. They deliberately barrelled into the round about and honked at me. The roundabout is a separate road. The giveway is for traffic on the roundabout (or about to join in the case of a mini). However I think it's a bit of a stretch to allocate your spot on the roundabout from so far back using speed of entry to force your way through.
You missed a reason from this video. At the mini roundabouts near me, the issue is always timing as 3 cars approach the roundabout at almost exactly the same time which often results in some sort of ridiculous stand-off. When all 3 drivers are too courteous to make a move and sit there causing unnecessary traffic behind them.
There is a roundabout on the way home from work with that layout. Cars often turn right from the right arm. I was going straight up and was ready to give way to the right when the car coming towards me went straight on instead of their typical left. The scenario switched from me giving way to having priority in a split second....
The first part is self explanatory, once you have learned to drive. The 2nd part is more of a judgment call. If you stop + give way to a stopped car to the right of you, you might be waiting a long time…so you have to proceed with caution. In the video, the driver does seem to slow down….i am not sure on that…the other car was stopped & not moving. If you do that too much, other drivers will simply take advantage and go first which is what the test car (pink footware) did…….this will literally happen all the time where I live.
For the test you should give way but the reality of proper driving depends upon your approach speed, what you can see and the lack of response from the car on the right particularly where the driver is looking.
There is a mini roundabout near me where one entry is blind to cars approaching from their left. If you enter the roundabout not able to see a car coming from your right, you often get a car driving onto the roundabout without slowing as they assume right of way and if there is a car already on the roundabougt they honk angrily!
This is why the cars approaching from the left should not proceed until they can see what is coming from the right! At our local mini roundabout I am usually the driver coming from the right and I am turning right, yet drivers will come down the hill on the left (hidden by trees) and rush onto the roundabout when I am already on it. I think they assume that all traffic coming from my direction is going to turn left along the road they themselves have come from. So I engage in brinkmanship, always prepared to stop a foot or two away from these drivers' cars, in other words to make it clear to them in a pointed way that they should be anticipating other drivers cutting across their path on this roundabout, but avoiding an actual collision. I guess this has the risk that someone equally over-assuming could rear-end them!
There's a mini roundabout in the middle of Totnes. I can highly recommend sitting and watching the antics as entertainment. I should put it on Trip Advisor! The number of drivers that either drive right over the white spot or drive completely the wrong side of it is staggering...
I do the “slow to the give way while watching the other driver then make a go/no go decision just before the line” also I look at the other driver for signs they are having a medical incident. Only seen a few in 35 years but you could be the first person to identify it. On the mock test video, I wonder if that used to be a T junction and the black car was still going by T junction rules or thinking your car might have been doing T junction rules
Idea for another video: If, in a regular roundabout, with more than one lane on entry, there is a vehicle on your right blocking your view of the roundabout, do you creep forward until you can see even if that means going over the give way line, or you wait for the vehicle on your right to go and move off at the same time?
Thank you for the idea. I don't advise creeping into the roundabout if you can't see passed the car to your right as that may impede traffic on the roundabout.
Hi dedaloskprs, is it not possible to observe the other traffic during your approach to the roundabout and make sensible decisions about your own movements to fit in with other drivers!, it should not be necessary to actually halt at the threshold of roundabouts, intelligent adjustment of your own speed means you should be able to roll through into a suitable space without stopping, just don't get to the give-way line until you can go. Cheers, Richard.
I think the usual advice is not to use another car as a shield - because they might be pulling out into disaster you can't see! An HGV can be different but I'm aware of not getting close, their different track on roundabouts etc. If I can't see I try to be patient. So many times that's paid-off - risk isn't worth it.
Never move off at the same time, you're likely to fail your test for that. Wait for the vehicle that's blocking your view to move then have a proper look yourself before deciding if it's safe to go.
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I passed my test 45 years ago, but I still find these videos useful.
Simply give way to the right unless signs or road markings prioritise otherwise
The trouble with mini roundabouts is they lead to everyone waiting for everyone else. Someone then has to decide to go, most likely two at the same time.
Not at all, grow a pair.
In this situation I find that the drivers who simultaneously decide to ‘unlock’ the situation that do so with caution giving everyone chance to avoid each other, it is common sense and not dangerous----usually accompanied with a smile.
Mini roundabouts are perfectly fine. It doesn't matter how many vehicles are in the roundabout as long as people actually slow down to match the speed of the other vehicles entering. Normally people just bomb it down even from far away and expect others to give them way when in reality you give way to the vehicle already entering the roundabout. The idea is to allow traffic to flow constantly froma all directions, not to stop and wait for all.
@mariemccann5895 what do you mean?
The other problem is this idea of giving way to cars on and approaching, we have some here where you only have a cars length of visibility, on some approaches, but the other approaches have good visibility, so they tend to no slow down, but once you start moving you may suddenly find a car coming from the right will usually get angry because he assured you will give way to someone you can't see untill it's too late 🧐
I have two phrases I keep in mind, "priority is given not taken" and "if someone has stopped for seemingly no reason, take a moment to figure out what that reason might be".
I agree 👍
The last one could save a heap of trouble! The sudden pull into a junction before swinging out in a U-turn, is a common crash on clip channels.
Knowing what they're intending to do & how that might affect you, is key. Too many don't pause to think.
@@TheCatBilbo Yep, another one I see a lot on dashcam channels is someone stops to let a large vehicle through a gap, the vehicle behind automatically overtakes them without thinking why the car in front suddenly stopped. Said vehicle then comes face to face with a big lorry, forcing them to do the reverse of shame.
Top notch comment, (from an old , but wise boy) . If in doubt hold back but don't dither either .
It's usually because they are on the phone.
Passed my test today all thanks to your videos. Passed first time with 0 faults. Thanks a million!!!
Congratulations!
@@glennleader8880 Thankyou!!!
Congratulations. Now go and actually learn to drive.
Well explained, and exactly how I treat mini-roundabouts. If I'm the blue car and see the red car is stationary, I'll give-way to them, but only give them a couple of seconds to move. If they just sit there not moving, I'll carefully proceed. I see it quite often in the mini-roundabouts in my area, where it seems a lot of older drivers don't seem to know what to do. They either sit there motionless when they have priority, or just dive out without looking when they have someone already on the junction to their right.
If I see cars approaching from the other two roads at a similar time, I'll try and adjust my speed to not arrive at the same time to avoid the 3-way lock-out where all three drivers are sat there waiting for someone to go first.
It isn't only older drivers not knowing what to do. Thanks to the abysmal quality of driving instructors these days many younger drivers also have no idea how to tackle a mini-roundabout, or much else if it comes to that.
Exactly! That’s why they are a waste of money.
Not just older drivers
I think a lot of "experienced" drivers need to see this video, as well as learners.
I passed my UK driving test today, thanks to your videos.
Truly grateful for your content, Richard.
I will continue to follow your channel to keep on learning & improving.
Thank you❤
Congratulations - enjoy your driving! My advice to new drivers, for what it's worth: concentrate - having a chat & constantly looking at a passenger is enough time for something to happen.
Stopping distance - often longer than you think you need. Closer you get, more risk of a collision.
Let other's mistakes go, we all make them. Be relaxed, it's never a competition 😊
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!
Congratulations.
Congratulations man have a safe drive 🙏
I have known Mexican stand offs where all cars are waiting at once in all access points to the roundabout. I usualy go first to break it
This is the fundamental defect of the rotary system and, I suspect, why they are so rare in the USA. At every junction someone should always have priority. If it really is a case of no priority then this is what traffic lights were invented for. Near the M4, where I live, most all the roundabouts are controlled by traffic lights anyway !
I passed my UK driving test today with the help of your videos. Thank you very much 😊
That's great to hear! Thank you for watching and congratulations on passing!
I find the way to approach a mini roundabout as that black car, if knowing that a particular mini roundabout commonly has people not giving way to you and going straight ahead (or just ANY mini roundabout), is to get onto the roundabout, indicating right, slowing right down and ready to stop, staying in your "lane" as it were, not pulling across them, assessing their speed and whether they have seen you and realised they need to stop. That will best show the person going straight ahead your intentions, but you are also going slow enough to stop if needed, regardless of whether the person going straight ahead is in the wrong. If the black car stays back and hesitates to enter the mini roundabout, it gives mixed signals and confuse others, as explained in the video
In the mock test video, your driver definitely slows down - she presses the brake and the bonnet dips. So, I'd say well aware of the need to give way. She then decide that's it's safe to go, as the black car isn't moving.
I agree, he was harsh. The black car should have entered the roundabout and then the drover should have gave way.
I agree, it looked like she was about to stop, but realised it wasn't moving so she knew it was safe to go
me too - the black car yeilded, for reasons unknown. I also think that by the time the car made the decision to continue, the black car could easily still enter the roundabout without causing any issue to either vehicle
Agree with more recent comments.
I agree, her foot definitely moved to break at the giveway line. Giving a serious fault for this was ridiculous
Passed my test today..This channel helped me a lot..thank you so much for your videos..keep it up
Hello blue car here. I tend to just wait for the red car to move if they are stopped. Why I do this is because I have had many times where the red car have suddently jump into the roundabout no longer paying attention to my car and almost hitting me. I no longer trust the red cars.
Very true, this is why I advise giving way even if the vehicle is stationary.
That's it, they suddenly decide to go. The ones who drive at you, horn blaring, really annoy me. I'm committed, so just let me complete!
Surely as it’s a mini roundabout the blue car should yield to the red car or any car approaching from the right, it’s not the same as a standard roundabout where a car already on the roundabout has priority. Of course you could get a Mexican stand-off if there’s a yellow car approaching from the opposite direction to the blue car.
@@MRCAGR1 Yes, it's the fact that car isn't doing anything that poses the question. We've all sat in a three way pause, I'm sure! The advice is pause to see if they'll move, otherwise carry on. Key is being aware of them & what they might do.
I don’t trust anyone on roundabouts. No blinkers, dancing between lanes, not getting in the appropriate lane before hand… i’m so over it man
Your videos are always helpful, you explain things really clearly so that there can be no mistake regarding how to implement the highway code.
Hi Richard, thanks for the guidance with your videos and shared knowledge, I passed my test today as well. But I will keep watching your videos as they help improve my driving skills.
Hey Richard, I passed my driving test this time last week with no faults, thank you very much for your videos
Wanted to say thank you so so much for all your fantastic videos, I started watching them when I began learning to drive last year and passed today with 2 minors. Your videos have helped a ton to help with a foundation for driving and are so informative, really appreciate you taking the time to make all this content ❤️
Great video. I have driven circa 25,00 miles a year for the past 40 years and never cease to be amazed by the lack of understanding of roundabouts. On your video commentary, I would also add that in the circumstance of the black car on the 2nd roundabout, if that had been me and I had seen your car, which I'm sure is well marked as being a learner, I too would have not entered the roundabout 🙂
The road markings are very clear. Double broken lines AND a triangle mean 'stop and give way'.
Broken lines mean give way, not stop, which is a solid line.
I've had tonnes of experiences on mini round abouts where the traffic coming opposite me want to turn right and doesn't indicate. This has kinda of made me hesitant and want to wait to see what they're doing and only going when I know I can go.
Whilst waiting giving way to my right, the car to my right was stationary, but there was a car coming opposite me (they did go straight ahead and not right)
But because the van behind me was inconvenienced for 3 seconds, they beeped twice.
There's an actual brain rot on the roads guys, do not be pressured into doing what someone else wants you to do, and go at your own pace, even if that's taking an extra few seconds to observe.
Ah yes, drivers who are too lazy to indicate and expect you to be telepathic are a pain.
I presume when you say vehicles opposite you, you’re on the left with an exit on your left and not the person who has priority regardless if they are turning right or not
@@pwners4u yeah so on the mini round about, they are coming onto the roundabout, opposite me on the other side of the road.
If they are coming onto the roundabout, the person to my right will have to give way to them.
I just passed my test today 😊😊
Great video for learners. Although I must say I’m a traffic cop, and I think you were perhaps a little harsh on learner driver, I think that was fine. you are technically right, but few police officers would ever blink twice at that. But standards should be high when learning, so I think you have a good point, especially if they genuinely didn’t know the car could present an issue. Personally I hate mini roundabouts, or at least many implementations of them. Some are so inappropriate and problematic, especially in very high traffic areas when you get vehicles at all junctions at the same time and you get a stalemate!
Just passed my test yesterday never had a lesson just went out with my dad. All these videos are what got me passed! Thank you so much
Exactly the reason why I failed my hgv cat c test🙈 great video!
I passed my test many years ago, in fact before the presenter was born, my Ex Police instructor rammed into me the rule, Always Give Way to the Vehicle to your Right, in addition at a Mini Roundabout you should always consider if you have time to cross without impeding a Vehicle directly ahead of you and if their Road position and or signals indicate they are crossing your path, I continue to practice this, and I have never caused a collision or near miss at a Mini Roundabout or indeed any Roundabout or Junction-Julie
In Victoria, Australia we give way to vehicles already in the roundabout. Give means slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision.
Therefore in your diagram the blue car would be fine to go. And why not, if it's safe why waste the opportunity?
Roundabouts were built to flow. The whole priority to the right doesn't exist here in Victoria, Australia.
Our rule about giving way to vehicles already in the roundabout basically means we do not have to give way to vehicles outside the roundabout if it's safe.
Regardless, we need to be very careful as road users from the right might not be looking at us or approaching too quickly, etc. In that scenario we wouldn't enter first.
Interesting video and interesting to see the way the rules work in comparison to Australia. Cheers.
different rules for different countries.
as he stated, here in the UK we give priority to vehicles approaching from the right when on a roundabout. so on a big roundabout, that would be vehicles already on the roundabout, on a small roundabout that would maybe include vehicles on approach, on a mini roundabout you do need to take into account the approaching speed.
many drivers have this attitude that if they get onto the roundabout before the vehicle to the right, they then become the vehicle to the right and now have priority. those drivers misinterpret the information.
because there are so many different shapes and sizes of roundabout and its down to a judgement call by each driver, the highway code needs to say it in a way that it can apply to all those roundabouts which is why approaching from the right was added in.
and if a vehicle is acting unusual like by not going when they should, it means risk is high.
rule of thumb is if you can get all 4 wheels over the give way line before the vehicle to your right can get its front wheels over the line, its likely you will clear and not interupt the vehicle to your right.
@CRUDEDriving That's actually what the legislation states in the UK, too, except many don't realise it, including driving instructors!
@@Captain-Cardboard what does the legislation state? All I can see on gov.uk is "give priority to traffic approaching from your right"...
@@douglasreid699 I agree with that rule of thumb. We pretty much teach the same here.
However, the fact is in Victoria, Australia we do not have to give way to anyone that is outside the roundabout.
It's all about the inside of the roundabout which basically means first in...
But, lowering our risk by not moving in when someone else is clearly going to move in first, must take precedence.
The issue with giving priority to the approaching right vehicle is that many drivers stop when they don't need to.
That's why the give way rule in Victoria, Australia makes sense - "slow down and, if necessary, stop to avoid a collision."
Once a driver understands how to assess the danger of collision and only stop if necessary, they can then enter a roundabout safely with approaching vehicles from the right.
Again, this is in relation to the rules where I am. It's a very interesting discussion. Thanks for chatting with me constructively about this. It's nice. Cheers!
@@CRUDEDriving The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 Schedule 9 Part 6 on legislation.gov.uk is your friend here.
Vehicular traffic approaching a roundabout with a small central island or approaching a junction indicated by the marking shown in item 5 of this sign table (*the dotted lines*) should give way at, or immediately beyond, the line _to traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout_
Since there was no traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout for the driver to give way to, giving them a serious fault for that is an error.
In a stand off situation I always go first and it works everytime.
'Indeed, if we drove like we "should" we would never get anywhere lol.
Had to do it last night. Gotta be quick though!
@@kingspunkbubble yes it's an instant decision you have to make. It keeps the traffic flowing.
How's that BMW working out for you?
We had a notorious mini near us where this was a constant problem. The stationary car was usually stationary because it was impossible to see traffic approaching from their right until it was two car lengths away from the roundabout. To be able to see you had to pull into the roundabout, and you can imagine what fun that caused. Add in traffic from the stationary car's left not stopping because they could see something coming or because they were not looking or just entitled, and accidents were common.
As ever, patience and politeness wins the day.
They have repainted the mini recently and now you can see down all routes equally well. Probably done by accident, but it is now free flowing. Huzzah! 🤨
Give way to the right always ,airing on caution stops alot of issues
Agree.
You gave exactly the correct definition, you give way to approaching traffic from the right but your stated action was incorrect. The whole point of a roundabout be it a mini or a normal roundabout is to maintain traffic flow by approaching at a safe speed and be prepared to stop. At roundabouts we have Giveaway markings, not Stop markings, therefore if on approach you see a stopped vehicle on the right then do not automatically stop.
You should be telling your pupil to use their observation skills and evaluate the situation before deciding if stopping is appropriate in the given situation.
Exactly.
Priority is given, not taken
Very true.
It's great to see an Ashley quote here, but let's be real. The highway code exists to provide a framework of when you can expect priority to be given. If someone acts like a pleb and ignores the code by driving dangerously, that is when you apply "priority is given, not taken".
I have to disagree. I assume that both parties know who has right of way if we had to assume that other people don't know then the driving experience in busy traffic would be very slow. I'd say take your priority but slow enough that you can stop if need be. This isn't fool proof but driving to prevent 100% accidents isn't a reasonable cost balance either.
Depends what country you're in probably cuz I definitely wouldn't wait. You only need to give way to cars already on the roundabout where I live. If they're approaching they have to slow and give way to you if you're already entering
Always give way to the right!
That's such a mad reason. It would basically be saying "Yeah that car to your right is travelling quite fast towards the roundabout, and there is nothing to its right so it doesn't need to stop, but it is half an inch before the give way line so you can safely ignore it." :D
Spanish way, short and clear explanation: the round about is a independent and separete lane/road. If the vehicle coming from the right is not inside the round about lane you can go. Of course driving redpecting the speed limits make this to do it properly. Because if a car coming from the right is coming over speed it makes things worse.
I'd be PISSED if my one fault that caused a test failure was that not giving way to the black car incident on the mini roundabout. She proceeded perfectly safely, the black car didn't have to react to your driver, she reacted to the fact they weren't going & went herself, she slowed & then accelerated.
Very very harsh.
Best not to drive at all when 'under the influence'.
He is totally wrong!
He is just a boy instructor,he has alot to learn!
I think most examiners wouldn't mark that as a serious fault. But instructors will try to mark every fault and will be harsher during mock tests so that you can avoid making those mistakes during the actual test.
This is very common in a mini close by where by blue is Stoughton to high street and red is emerging from town supermarket and car park. The view to the right for red is slightly obstructed and cars coming from their right are often coming at speed to go straight over.
Which gives rise to a further conundrum who has priority when three vehicles arrive almost together.
Oh this happened to us the other day at a mini roundabout. My lad had his L plates on and I was the passenger. We approached a four way mini roundabout on the exit to a petrol station. Car on our right had nothing preventing them from moving, no traffic on their right, exits were all clear (and it had taken a minute for the roundabout to clear to this state), there was a queue of cars behind us, and a queue behind them, but there they sat, at their give way line, not moving. There were no other cars at the two other entrances / exits to the roundabout. We waited for them for around 30 seconds, at which point we were being harassed (honked at) by cars behind us, making the lad panic and stall. We corrected the stall, and I just told him to move off carefully. We went all the way to the right hand exit of the mini roundabout, and the person was still sat there at their give way line. No idea what their deal was. No hazard lights or any other indication that anything was wrong. Fortunately the entrance they were at was not wide enough for frustrated drivers behind to overtake and enter the roundabout.
We did talk about this after, and I'm afraid I did use the 'not in the roundabout' point that you mentioned, but I did say about being super careful when "overriding" that priority like that.
I also fervently hope that the situation doesn't arise on the actual test for him!
Thanks for the videos
On approach, slow down enough to indicate with your position and speed (1st gear) that you are giving way as signs command you to. If the vehicle remains stationary, it is yielding back to you and perhaps is more comfortable proceeding behind. Once priority is yielded back, the ball is in your court and you should take initiative.
I get his almost daily on the school run - this exact set up. If the red car is stopped, I'll stop and wait to see if it moves (i.e. I give way). If it doesn't move, I'll carefully move off. As to the reasons the red car stops almost every day, there are many... kids crossing the road, itself giving way to the green car coming from it's right, letting their own kids out, and very occasionally just not paying attention.
I had this exact situation a few days ago. The other car was completely stopped. I raised my hand in a "you've got right of way" gesture and he then moved
It's perfectly ok to nip in in front of them if they are stationary because they are impeding traffic flow and they are not approaching if they are stationary.
Yes you are right
The good thing about situations like this because everyone is going slowly mistakes rarely lead to serious accidents, usually just a bit of annoyed honking and everyone gets on with their day. Happens all the time even with drivers that have full licences!
Hi Conquer Driving, good work as usual!. There is one thing I saw at the start and that is the double broken line on the blue car route, this marking I understand top be a mandatory stop mark, drivers should come to a halt even when there is no other traffic. The other two approaches are single dotted lines where actually stopping is not required.
The red car then should only be stopped because a car from his right is passing or about to, this car will also be turning right and has priority over the blue car. Seen from above as this is makes it very clear what is what the blue car faces a mandatory stop because no turn is required to go straight on, the other two both have to make turns as they proceed.
Cheers, Richard.
Single dotted lines are lanes to leave the roundabout. Double dotted lines are give way. Solid white lines are stop lines
@@garytoner4563 Hi Gary Toner, thank you for this response, I did realise my error a while later, I got a bit confused and forgot, now I am going to have to check what that double dotted marking is for, something to do with giving way but more so than the single dotteds. Anyway thank you again for the correction.
Cheers Richard
@@richardharvey1732 From the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016:
_7. The requirements conveyed to vehicular traffic on roads by a road marking provided for at item 3 of the sign table in Part 6 of this Schedule are-_
_(a) except as provided in paragraphs (b) to (d), that no vehicle may proceed past the transverse line which is the nearer to the major road into that road in a manner or at a time likely to endanger the driver of, or any passenger in, a vehicle on the major road or to cause the driver of such a vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident_
@@Captain-Cardboard Hi Captain Cardboard, I do like your internet handle!, thank foer taking the time and trouble to look up the relevant regulations, I do it myself sometimes but for me the reality of dynamic traffic situations normally inclines me to rely on the judgements I consider appropriate in the actual circumstances and in this one much for me depends on the way the red car is behaving, and whether or not it is stationary or moving, could it be waiting for a vehicle coming from it's right hand side and going straight on?.
What I am saying is that my driving decisions are based on actual observations with decisions based on fundamental principles relating to most sensible practise rather than strict observance of any set of 'rules', for me since it first occurred to me I will take every opportunity to be kind and considerate of other people because such kindness makes me feel better!, that little buzz is worth more than the tiny bits of time I might gain by having to get there first, everything stems from the same fundamental principles that I apply because they make my life easier and more satisfying.
Cheers, Richard.
I failed my last driving test because I was waiting at a mini-roundabout while the traffic was congested and there were cars stationary on the roundabout. I didn't want to fail for making the car on my right wait for longer by driving in their way on the roundabout, but apparently because I was waiting for so long while the cars on my right were giving me opportunities to go I was given a serious for hesitation and failed anyway!
I had a similar fail. A buss I was turning right we drive on the left. So I had to cross his path. He signed me to go. I didn't. And waited because I had heard you fail for accepting someone giving you priority. I failed too. Next time a car did the same. Just be sure it can only be you they were giving priority. As sometimes like at a busy cross roads with a person wanting may be they are letting them cross. And be sure it's safe by final check both ways then if still ok go. I did the second time and passed. Only 1 minor. Keep trying.
Sounds like some bad luck (and a grumpy examiner). As you'll learn when you do pass, sometimes there are "unwinnable" situations and you just have to do your best, in the safest way possible. I hope you're not too disheartened, and good luck for next time.
I was giving a minor for same
You need to make good progress at all times. Could cause an accident if the driver behind thinks you are going as they can see its clear and drives into the back of you.
@@stevenm9067that's still the fault of the car behind. If they just assume you'll go and don't check you actually have then their insurance will be the responsible one since only they were in motion at time of collision
At any give-way sign, you should assume you have to stop, and should slow accordingly.
If you get to the give way lines and you notice the car has made no attempt to continue, you can proceed with caution.
Rules of roundabouts are simple, always give way to vehicles on your right. No exceptions, doesn't matter if they are stationary or not. The whole point of a roundabout is regulating flow of traffic and giving way to the right is key to that. At mini roundabouts this is most important because without giving way to vehicles waiting the whole point of the roundabout fails. That is what I was taught anyway and it has served me well over the last 37 years. In your example was the black car even indicating to turn, looked like it wanted to go straight on. Still your driver should have shown caution and missed a potential hazard so you are right to raise it.
The black car was definitely indicating to turn right.
The problem is when they suddenly move & you've committed. Sensibly, they could just back off & let you clear. Sadly, some will drive at you & sound their horn as 'punishment'.
I pause & give them a moment - they might just be waiting to see what you'll do. Key is being aware of them!
Good video. Roundabouts are a great idea, but a lot of drivers don't understand how to use them properly. To be fair, even after 52 years driving all over the world I sometimes wonder if I'm doing it right, usually at the tiny roundabouts.
Also the highway code does say to treat mini-roundabouts like a normal round about, or at least it did
You talked about mini and spiral roundabouts.
But there's the third one:
The one that has a center island, and pedestrian island. So its unlikely a car behind the stationary vehicle would go counterflow or climbing up the center island with physical kerbs.
On a daily basis I have drivers on my right not moving. Theyre hesitating or whatever is the reason after I have a full stop, few seconds wait I go with:
"well... if you don't go, don't mind if I do"
Possibly even doing that driver a favor too, since I am potentially shielding traffic so they can finally get confident to accelerate.
At miniroundabouts its more awkward. Do to the reasons you mentioned someone can cut through, but there its situational.
Either after the full stop I will start moving emphasizing that I am fully aware my acceleration speed is better than the stationary vehicle
or
I wait for a traffic from my front / right of the stationary car and will move when I get a shield.
I have a mini roundabout a couple of hundred yards from me that is incredibly busy, and if you get a hesitant driver who just doesn't go, you often end up with three cars parked there all trying to give each other priority. If somebody doesn't go, nobody does. So, I tend to make sure I break the deadlock if nobody else does first. I'm frequently amazed at how often you end up with three cars parked there, not knowing who should go.
Definitely a trend in the last few years of people who do not seem to understand and how to use them properly on the road.
One thing I avoid doing which has gotten me out of trouble many a time, is I never cut a roundabout. The amount of people I see do that and treat it as if it is a junction and cause near misses is constant.
When in doubt think on the right in the right. Hence the red car has priority. This always used to be taught so if it isn't now that means driving instructors are not bothering with the highway code.
Safety and Common Sense! Those are the primary aspects that examiners are mostly concerned with! Particularly Safety!
All common sense advice. The worst situation is the classic 'Mexican standoff'. Arriving at a mini roundabout with all other cars entering it at a standstill at their respective Give Way line, unable to decide who has priority 😂.
This drives me nuts. Im always ready to go in this situation 🤣
I guess that means everyone can pull out, if the roundabout is big enough.
Once everyone at a roundabout has given way (i.e., stopped), it's bascially far game for everyone. Just proceed cautiously after that.
Yes, this is why I would pass with caution but prefer not to stop in the situation of this video. If I stop I'm inviting the standoff
Way I look at it is that I have priority and just go for it. If we all hesitated waiting for others to do 'the right thing' we would never get anywhere.
You could also explain, using you diagram of the mini roundabout, the significance of the double broken white line (and yield markings on the road) the blue car encounters, compared to the single broken line at the other two entrances to the mini roundabout
Could you please make a video about crossroads? When to go nearside to nearside vs offside to offside? How should position themselves first in the middle? Intersections with priorities? And so on. Thank you!
Richard, as a long-time subscriber I HIGHLY respect your knowledge and attention to detail, but even after this follow-up video personally I still think you were too harsh to give the serious mark...
Keerthi didn’t ‘just carry on through‘ and WASN’T unaware that she needed to give way - the footage clearly shows she used the brake and was slowing to give way, but then assessed that the car WASN’T ‘approaching from the right’ (it was already stationary for some time before she arrived at the roundabout). The vehicle behind it was not acting unpredictably. If the black car was to suddenly start moving and went correctly AROUND the roundabout (HC rule 188), it was unlikely that they would arrive in the same place at the same time. Keerthi read the situation, came off the break and proceeded.
Like you said, if you make a car with priority change direction/slow down a minor amount it’s a minor fault, a major amount - a major fault. Keerthi slowed the black car down by NO amount while still being aware of it. Based on its speed and distance she judged that she had time to move in front of it ‘without making it break or change direction’, therefore committed no major fault in my opinion. The oncoming flow of traffic was affected by the black car’s wrong decision to stop unnecessarily...
By stopping the black car signalled that - for whatever reason (maybe they didn’t know the rules? maybe they saw the L-plates and simply decided to hold back?) - it was actively YIELDING its priority; had it at least inched into the roundabout to assert its priority (it had space to safely make their intentions clear; hard to see if their right signal was on...) then you can see Keerthi was prepared to continue to break for them.
Also, to be precise HC rule 185 says you ‘should’ give priority to traffic approaching from your right, not that you ‘must’. Annoyingly, only ‘must’ means you’re legally obligated to do it... The driving test checks whether you can drive in a ‘safe and legal’ manner. In this situation Keerthi was aware of roundabout rules, didn’t break any laws and made sure it was safe to proceed, therefore she drove in an aware, legal and safe manner, and as such didn’t IMO deserve the serious fault.
Would it be a ‘good idea’ to stop to demonstrate that she knew the black car had priority? Yes. Does this situation serve as a valuable lesson and should we all be more mindful and courteous to our fellow drivers? Yes. Should it be marked as a serious fault? No. I understand that as an instructor you have to be strict during mock tests and err on the side of caution, but if she was failed for this on a real test in my opinion it would’ve been unfair.
i agree. I would have continued as it looked to me that would make no difference to the black cars decision to enter the roundabout - or it shouldn't have. If they don't know how roundabouts work, that's on them. My assumption would have been, as you say, they were yielding, for whatever reason. The student appeared to me to have slowed down sufficiently to abort entrance at any time that not giving way would cause an issue to the black car. By the time the student crossed the line, it was still perfectly fine for the black car to pull on to the roundabout, without causing issue to anyone
I do wish the instructor would have responded to your valid comment on the black car’s intension, out of respect firstly but to hear his response, to just ignore your point is as I say not good enough if he wants to be considered as he would like!
On first viewing, I thought the same as you Agaw and I still think a major it is a little harsh however I do wonder if Richard was assessing the "whole" situation and that was the particular fault which he chose to use. To be honest, you can see she slowed into the second roundabout and I would probably have done the same thing with 2million road miles under my belt (I've been a rep most of my life). I would say however that the way she switched lanes was borderline dangerous driving. Had she correctly approached the second and third roundabouts in the correct (left) straight ahead lane, she would have been further away from the black car and not had to switch lanes. By switching lanes with virtually no time to see what was to her left, potentially in her blindspot, and putting herself closer to the black car, I can see why it is definately a minor and why the whole manouver was pushing into a major. If Richard had said to proceed round the second roundabout and gone right at the third, I would have agree with your statement but (hopefully) he had told her to go straght ahead before they got to the first roundabout.
@@markkirby7600Hi Mark. Agreed; there was no need for Keerthi to go into the right lane in the first place on the second roundabout, considering that she was told to go straight on the third one (guess she might’ve thought that the left one might turn out to be a left-only lane?)... But if you watch back you'll see that Richard in fact gave two serious marks at this point. The way Keerthi went back to the left between the second and right roundabout cost her a major for ‘mirrors - change direction’ and I totally agree with that one, no problem.
However, I don’t think that whether she entered the second roundabout in the left or right lane made any difference - the black car was still dithering (Richard said they were being ‘diligent’ and ‘waited patiently’ which personally I think is a bit of a generous assumption). So even if she was in the left (i.e. correct) lane - other than maybe giving herself a bit more time and space in case the black car started to move abruptly - in my opinion she still didn’t deserve the second serious mark for ‘junctions - observations’ as she did in fact observe correctly that the black car wasn’t ‘approaching‘, plus she appeared more than prepared to stop if it did [she had tapped the brakes].
So yeah, one of the majors was justly deserved. The other? Personally I still don’t think so.
@@Dee-u4rI understand that Richard is a busy man, considering it must take a long time to create the quality content that he does! So I didn't necessarily expect him to respond 😅
However, I still wanted to express an alternative opinion in case my interpretation and feedback might prove in any way beneficial or thought provoking to Richard, or others on the channel.
Ultimately it's all about sharing knowledge and learning to be better drivers, and I'm certainly not trying to undermine Richard's generally fantastic knowledge and vast experience! I just didn't agree with his judgement on this particular occasion ✌🏻
A worse scenario is when you are directly opposite someone on the road ahead and a stream of cars from that lane (which is technically neither to your right nor left; but your intention to turn definitely means you are coming from their right) essentially expect you to wait for the traffic to clear before you turn right, or even fail to give way on the roundabout. They treat it as a normal right turn off a road into a side road. Note that this is exactly what happened at 6:20 in the video, but if one tries to be more assertive than the black car was, one risks a collision.
A mini roundabout in a junction like the one illustrated is just a "continuous flow" T junction and not a true roundabout. It's obvious to everyone who encounters these, which is why this sort of discussion always generates heat.
There is a roundabout near me where coming to the roundabout up to the T junction you have no view of traffic coming from your right due to a high wall and of course traffic from your right can see anything turning right from directly in front of them, which they should give way to, so they don’t slow very much. Anyone approaching the roundabout to the T consequently has to stop to see if they can go ( would help if drivers indicated). Giving way to moving traffic from the left would effectively make it a dead end.
As others have said , priority is given not taken. I’ve had situations like the second one and what usually happens is that you end up with a stand-off where everyone is just staring at each other across a roundabout.
Very useful information ❤ Now I know that I should give way to a car approaching as well 😅
No you don't! - If you do that somebody will hit you from behind.Dont do what this instructor says,use your common sence!
Watch out for people trying to stuff you on your driving test
Maybe the red car is looking towards the speeding vehicle from the right and is erring with caution before pulling out.
The red car is stopped because painting a spot in the middle of a T-junction doesn't intuitively mean you can pull out in front of traffic.
Check out the road markings. Blue car lane has two lines.
The Highway Code is absolutely not as clear as you suggest when you read it out at 1:44.
It says "give way to traffic approaching from the right" and goes on to say "and watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout".
It does not say "give way to traffic approaching THE ROUNDABOUT from the right" and the fact that it specifically mentions "all OTHER road users ON the roundabout" means this could quite easily be interpreted as implying that the point about traffic approaching from the right must also be referring to traffic "ON the roundabout". This is because there are two categories being referred to, 1. Traffic approaching from the right, on the roundabout and 2. All other traffic on the roundabout. The word OTHER is the direct link between the two and the fact that the second part specifically states they are on the roundabout,yet the first part does not specify traffic approaching the roundabout, it is reasonable to assume all the traffic referred to must be on the roundabout.
If you read it again with this alternative meaning in mind, it makes just as much sense.
Therefore both interpretations are equally valid, so the Highway Code is completely useless to determine this issue.
The HC is generally quite useless for this sort of thing. As ever, if you want to know the law, you need to read the law.
And the law much more clearly supports the interpretation you've described. TSRGD explicitly states that the normal white line (a single dashed line) at a roundabout entrance means you give way to traffic circulating on the roundabout.
The diagram in the video is a bit different in that it shows a Give Way line (double dashed line) instead for the blue car. But even then, there doesn't seem to be anything about Give Way lines at roundabouts that creates specific priority for traffic approaching from the right that is not on the roundabout yet.
The issue described is semantic. The size of the roundabout will determine the degree to which you need to be aware of traffic approaching the roundabout. As in the video diagram where a tiny painted roundabout is exemplified, it is patently obvious that you must be aware of traffic which is approaching the roundabout from the right. This is because in this example, the blue car only has priority over a car on the first exit (straight over) and only then if the blue car intended to turn right.
On a larger roundabout, as stated in the video, the likelihood is that you will not need to specifically pay attention to traffic approaching the roundabout as much as much as the traffic already on it. Some roundabouts being so large or having entrances and exits in such places as not to be visible by you. So whilst the Highway Code might not be useful in that specific application, it only needs a bit of common sense to fill in the blank. Otherwise the HC would have to have a subset of code depending on the size of the roundabout. The use of more generic terminology on this one makes sense.
@@stephenwakeman3074 I'm not quite sure what point you're making? The question raised in the video is specifically; should the Blue car give way to the Red car, not should it just be 'aware" of it as you say in your comment. That's a significantly different consideration. The highway code is clearly misleading on this, particularly the two paragraphs read out in the video.
@@pjay3028 I agree. Understanding the hazard environment and understanding the priority environment are two different things.
"Approaching" implies active movement imo. If you have to give way to the stationery red car how far back from the line would it be considered that they are not yet approaching the roundabout?
The blue car is behind double white lines indicating that it should stop until no car approaches or enters from any direction then it is safe to continue or even turn right having signaled and pulled onto the right side of the lane
Really useful thank you. I got this wrong the other day because the approaching red car was not at the give way line on the mini roundabout I thought I would get onto the mini roundabout first and hence have priority (give way to traffic on the roundabout). But he didn't stop at his give way line. Awkward. Now I see my mistake. Will adjust accordingly!
You were correct the first time. Traffic yet to cross a Give Way line DOES NOT have priority over traffic that already has!
The Highway code should be more explicit about mini roundabouts. It says the laws are identical to larger roundabouts, but as you say, you don't give way to approaching traffic if it has yet to enter the roundabout. Planning law says you can't put a MR on a road with a speed limit over 40, and they're frequently used for traffic calming. Having to give way to approaching traffic seems to me we're just converting MRs back to T junctions which they purposely replace.
Mini roundabouts are generally used to let traffic out onto busier/faster roads where limited visibility or something else such as heavy traffic precludes pulling out onto the faster road. In your example, it would be almost impossible in heavier traffic for the red car to pull out at all, so the priority is removed from the blue car or another approaching from the red car's right to allow traffic to flow more equally from each direction.
It's contentious as most interpret it the way you have but the person who really knows what was meant is pretty clear (Director of Transport or something similar that came up with the roundabout directions for the current Highway Code).
If you are not on the roundabout, you don't have priority. Merely approaching the roundabout DOES NOT give you priority until you are on it.
Think of it this way although it doesn't work in all circumstances.
If you have to cross a white line, whatever is the other side of it has priority. This also is spelled out better about turning into/out of junctions in the latest Highway Code. The only thing it fails on is off roundabouts as there's generally no line as you exit!
I was dubious clicking on the video, in my head thinking it’s a total no brainer. However, your introduction quickly shows the mentality of many drivers on the streets. Good video good point.
At 4:25 whilst that might seem ‘technically’ correct, I would treat that the same as a zebra crossing - you’re at fault as soon as they enter their move.
So at 5:06 you’re right, after stopping and then choosing to proceed - you can only do this when you’re observing everything. Even try to make eye contact.
Your real life scenario was tough. I’m guessing on test you can’t tell what’s in their head, so many things they should emphasise safe moves. If I were the student I’d want to be able to verbally describe my decision there. And there is the added point the public may heed more caution towards an L cladded car.
When you watch the dash cam clips, from other channels, there’s a lot of people pointing out the errors on one side. However, when it comes to mini roundabouts, there are many that are in the mindset that the rule only applies to vehicles on the roundabout like you say. I find it incredibly hard to get my head around how they believe that is correct and that can work. There is not a safety mentality applied nor a concept of ‘one second later’. They tend to lead with a “I got here first”.
Just imagine a situation where all cars have come to a stop or instead have approached the roundabout at a 2 mph crawl… And then all vehicles from each entrance decide to go at the same time. It would be total chaos. And I suppose it is total chaos because there are many people without a true understanding of the highway code. They apply this mentality to parked cars on their side of the street too.
There are also many other instances in the clips where people seem to think that a manoeuvre is okay, and yet that all the person had to do was avoid it. Or having to brake was okay, be that firmly or gently. It’s as if it’s normal every day type of driving. And I think that these people will drive at you in situations thinking that it’s okay to make you brake and avoid.
People are choosing when you should brake, avoid, by driving at you. And the mindset seems to be that : that wasn’t close enough to warrant anything serious. On a motorbike this gets much more dangerous; they’re assuming your ability to change direction or your grip for braking in scenarios.
It has to be remembered that "Mock Tests" are not just tests but also part of training. Whereas on the mock test a serious fault was awarded and this would result in failing the test, on an actual test the candidate would more likely be awarded a minor fault. As a trainer you need to be thinking will the same situation occur on a test and we are told that at this series of roundabouts this type of scenario comes up sufficiently regularly for it to be given special attention. On one of these occasions is the situation exactly the same No, but quite similar and therein lies the problem of teaching in a way to maximise success in passing the test and also ensuring candidates continue to drive thereafter in as safe a way as possible.
The diagram you used to explain your point at the beginning of this clip clearly shows road markings and signage, a "giveaway to all traffic lane marking and signage and two give way to the right lane markings." These are common at three Lane mini roundabouts. It would have been useful had you explained there purpose in these mini roundabouts
Interesting to see that the approach road for the blue car has double Give Way lines and a Give Way triangle not normally seen at mini roundabouts. The other two approach roads have the normal single dotted lines for mini roundabouts
Drivers coming from the blue car's direction are liable to pay less attention to standard Give Way lines, given the lack of deflection on the route, so you'll often see the Give Way triangle in such instances. When it's used it has to be accompanied by the double-dotted lines and the painted triangle on the road.
@@Captain-Cardboard Excellent explanation, Thank You. I just always thought that for mini roundabouts, the road markings had to follow the standard of single dotted give way lines but your explanation makes perfect sense given the "minimal deflection" aspect from the blue cars approach going to the intended exit.
The other way to think about it is if they didn't want you to give way it'd just be a T junction, as many mini roundabouts were before they were changed to aid traffic flow.
Why were those T-junctions converted into mini roundabouts? What benefits are there
@@Andrei8pa3 To adjust priority, which in turn aids traffic flow. Obviously it's dependent on where the queues are.
and safety. because it means no matter what direction you’re coming from, there’s someone you have to give way to, forcing you to slow down and check. kind of a traffic calming measure
However, many people still treat them as t junctions, and red car is probably stopped to wait and see if blue car is going to stop. Like the black car in the live example.
@@mmatt314 maybe depends on the area. in my experience, people generally follow the rules with t-junction mini roundaboutd
We have this exact roundabout near home. I always give way and stop for the blue car. It becomes more complicated when the blue car is waiting for the green car coming from its right.
There is a problem when one road is more major, and so there is a steady stream of traffic along it which tends never to stop. Those in a side road have to nudge out, otherwise they’d be waiting for a very long time to go.
We have a same roundabout near us and we always give priority to the red car, unless there's another car approaching from the opposite direction, then the red car usually waits and we're all stuck there for a few seconds waiting for someone to make the first move 🙈🤣 then I usually go first. Lol
Wrong the black car was oncomming trafic. It was not aproaching from the right. and was not on the roundabout. the driver had every right and it was safe to proceed.
Why doesn't the Highway Code say to "give priority to traffic approaching the roundabout from the right" if that's what is meant?
(Even if it did mean that, the black car at 6:14 isn't approaching from the right. It's approaching from straight ahead, so doesn't have priority over us.)
Maybe we would be technically in the wrong, I and I think 99% of other drivers would have done what they did in the video, if the black car is dithering like that, then I will take the initiative and go. If they had been moving into the roundabout I would wait for them no problem.
The entrance/exit is to the right with no intermediate entrances/exits. All roundabouts will at least have three exits; there will always be an exit to the right in terms of path around the roundabout.
Exactly. Why do I have to wait for it then? Just go! The road is clear.
For all people passing a test always give way to a vehicle from the right at a junction roundabout entering a motorway or duel carriage way. it is different on traffic lights only. and never stop in side a boxed Junction. it is all in the highway code book.
Nice to have an explanation of the rules, however so many drivers ignore them that they have become almost meaningless. Doubly so if the other road user is on a motorbike or bicycle. 😡
I find a common problem at mini roundabouts are drivers to your right that dither and hesitated when they have a clear road to their right. Usually elderly or foreign drivers not accustomed to the rules relating to roundabouts; (very often because they are driving on an international licence).
red car has clear priority but if red car is taking their time/indecisive/stalled/fiddling with buttons (most common reason)/not attentive, then the blue car has to assess the hazard of moving off. Sometimes mini roundabouts need one driver to make a move then the the rest follow road priorities. SO mamy times, they're not moving should we move instead. Ultimately a good driver will assess the whole situation.
I've only encountered this once. BT van stopped at the mini roundabout, I come to a complete halt, wait for a bit, van didn't move, so I go (carefully), then the van beeps their horn just as I'm exiting the roundabout (without having moved). It was weird.
I agree with others- we are can do with reminders on mini-roundabout discipline. I passed my test in 1968, but there is a 4-way mini roundabout near me which I always find slightly worrying, ie, who arrived first....
If there is an incoming car which the red car is having to wait for, then I am going to proceed. When people don't do this, the flow rate through these minis is pathetic.
The Bigger question I ask is... if the red car has not arrived at the giveway, but is 2 or 3 car lengths back, should you give way? I seen a car approaching from the right, they were still a good 3 or 4 car lengths back, although approaching swiftly. I proceeded. They deliberately barrelled into the round about and honked at me.
The roundabout is a separate road. The giveway is for traffic on the roundabout (or about to join in the case of a mini). However I think it's a bit of a stretch to allocate your spot on the roundabout from so far back using speed of entry to force your way through.
You missed a reason from this video. At the mini roundabouts near me, the issue is always timing as 3 cars approach the roundabout at almost exactly the same time which often results in some sort of ridiculous stand-off. When all 3 drivers are too courteous to make a move and sit there causing unnecessary traffic behind them.
At 5:19 on the animation, I immediately identified the impatient black car as a VW Golf.
There is a roundabout on the way home from work with that layout. Cars often turn right from the right arm. I was going straight up and was ready to give way to the right when the car coming towards me went straight on instead of their typical left. The scenario switched from me giving way to having priority in a split second....
The first part is self explanatory, once you have learned to drive.
The 2nd part is more of a judgment call. If you stop + give way to a stopped car to the right of you, you might be waiting a long time…so you have to proceed with caution.
In the video, the driver does seem to slow down….i am not sure on that…the other car was stopped & not moving. If you do that too much, other drivers will simply take advantage and go first which is what the test car (pink footware) did…….this will literally happen all the time where I live.
For the test you should give way but the reality of proper driving depends upon your approach speed, what you can see and the lack of response from the car on the right particularly where the driver is looking.
You are just the best
There is a mini roundabout near me where one entry is blind to cars approaching from their left. If you enter the roundabout not able to see a car coming from your right, you often get a car driving onto the roundabout without slowing as they assume right of way and if there is a car already on the roundabougt they honk angrily!
This is why the cars approaching from the left should not proceed until they can see what is coming from the right! At our local mini roundabout I am usually the driver coming from the right and I am turning right, yet drivers will come down the hill on the left (hidden by trees) and rush onto the roundabout when I am already on it. I think they assume that all traffic coming from my direction is going to turn left along the road they themselves have come from. So I engage in brinkmanship, always prepared to stop a foot or two away from these drivers' cars, in other words to make it clear to them in a pointed way that they should be anticipating other drivers cutting across their path on this roundabout, but avoiding an actual collision. I guess this has the risk that someone equally over-assuming could rear-end them!
There's a mini roundabout in the middle of Totnes. I can highly recommend sitting and watching the antics as entertainment. I should put it on Trip Advisor!
The number of drivers that either drive right over the white spot or drive completely the wrong side of it is staggering...
I presume you're talking about the 4-way one at the bottom of the main high street 🙂
@@gavindeane3670 That's the one. And the Severn Stars outside seating area is perfect to view the antics.
I do the “slow to the give way while watching the other driver then make a go/no go decision just before the line” also I look at the other driver for signs they are having a medical incident. Only seen a few in 35 years but you could be the first person to identify it. On the mock test video, I wonder if that used to be a T junction and the black car was still going by T junction rules or thinking your car might have been doing T junction rules
Idea for another video:
If, in a regular roundabout, with more than one lane on entry, there is a vehicle on your right blocking your view of the roundabout, do you creep forward until you can see even if that means going over the give way line, or you wait for the vehicle on your right to go and move off at the same time?
Thank you for the idea. I don't advise creeping into the roundabout if you can't see passed the car to your right as that may impede traffic on the roundabout.
Hi dedaloskprs, is it not possible to observe the other traffic during your approach to the roundabout and make sensible decisions about your own movements to fit in with other drivers!, it should not be necessary to actually halt at the threshold of roundabouts, intelligent adjustment of your own speed means you should be able to roll through into a suitable space without stopping, just don't get to the give-way line until you can go.
Cheers, Richard.
I think the usual advice is not to use another car as a shield - because they might be pulling out into disaster you can't see! An HGV can be different but I'm aware of not getting close, their different track on roundabouts etc.
If I can't see I try to be patient. So many times that's paid-off - risk isn't worth it.
Never move off at the same time, you're likely to fail your test for that. Wait for the vehicle that's blocking your view to move then have a proper look yourself before deciding if it's safe to go.
i passed my driving test yesterday on my first attempt!