Was Nick Cave Wrong To Reject This?!
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- A friend sent me an open letter written by Nick Cave quite a few years ago to MTV. I found it an interesting piece of writing. Was he right to do this? Or is he taking those award shows a bit too seriously? I know it's not new news, but these awards seem to hold the same importance still. Do they reduce music to a competitive sport? Tell me.
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It's easy in this age of casual, lazy language to view and mock the way someone like Nick speaks about his inner life. He harkens back to earlier times when florid, complex linguistic structures were used to express the depths of thought and feeling. He's a true poet as anyone who has spent even a modest amount of time listening to his various periods of music will surely know. He brilliantly straddles that line between the now and the past. I will always cherish the moment when I first discovered him decades ago as he has come to mean so much to me in many ways. In a class all of his own!!
It needs to change, the idea that speaking eloquently makes you sound like an asshole. As an avid reader since childhood, I’ve always had a decent vocabulary, although not the most well-spoken. When I talk about something that is important to me, I’ll use whatever language feels appropriate at the time. When in the wrong company, I’ve been told ‘stop trying to sound smart.’
SO, the opinions of those who would speak ill of someone that thinks before they speak, and have something thoughtful to say, should be disregarded. If not completely ignored, pity should be given to any person who feels threatened enough to speak ill on public forums such as this. If you feel intimidated by someone such as Nick Cave, I recommend you pick up a book, and develop yourself into someone to be revered.
murder ballads is a perfect display of his use of words even the song people aint no good is amazing
@@Faygo33 A different album (it isn't a murder ballad), but aye. I think the song nests next to Brompton Oratory a song named after Cave's favourite church in Kensington.
From Rush's 'The Spirit of the Radio':
"One likes to believe in the freedom of music
But glittering prizes and endless compromises
Shatter the illusion of integrity, yeah"
Nick Cave is legend - if you haven't seen the man live, you haven't lived (IMHO)
I saw him in Gliwice, Poland about two weeks ago and man, was that an Experience spelled with a capital E
Completely agree. Far and away the best live performer I have seen in 35 years.
@@edwardjons8684 Ever saw Prince?
Truth! Seeing him again in April
I loved this letter when I read it. I love Nick Cave.....I read his Red Hand files each week and he is just wonderful....I want you to have the awards! Wings of Desire is my all time favourite movie!
I believe a certain Mr David Bowie turned down a knighthood citing (I paraphrase) "It's not really what I got into this business for".
Respect to him for that
Love that!
Celebrities accepting knighthoods seems to be an almost masturbatory concept IMO. Except it is the ones doing the knighting performing the deed on the celebrity. 😂
As if Elton John or Paul McCartney got into it for that
I don't believe a word Bowie said. He was a fake and a fraud who used multiple musicians and rode Mick's coattails.
And if you want to push this further I'll tell you about my sister's interaction with Bowie at the Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence wrap party.
Don't forget this is a man who wore a dress on an album cover and stated he was gay just to sell more records.
Look what he did to Mick Ronson.
No Mick Ronson no Davey Jones.
And all that family insanity bullshit. Want more?
I got plenty more.
Nick Cave wrote a movie called The Proposition its an Australian western and its a really good movie its not for the faint of heart though, there are some very tough scenes but I highly recommend it
Did the score too!
@@williamjosephdunn5879oh the music is a treat and it's used sparingly too its not pushed in your face, good movie isn't it quite a few good actors too, the young lad who plays the youngest brother is really good
And he was somehow involved in the script for the Gladiator sequel that never happened... Would be very interesting to see what would have came out of that...
@@tiagocandeias1979 so bummed about that movie not being made! I heard Ridley Scott loved the script.. perhaps the studio was a bit apprehensive ?😬🤷♂️
Love The Proposition!
Great film and great actors,, kinda melancholy and violent but delivers nonetheless.
It feels like your living inside one of Nick Caves songs for 2 hours.
A music genius and an expert on 18th century transport! Brilliant!
I think it boils down to him not wanting to physically have to appear at these awful events when he could be at home getting high and writing masterpieces , and I bet he was grinning when he sent off this letter, a lot of his work is very dark humoured and tongue in cheek
I absolutely love Nick Cave, and seeing him live is just incredible. He's a treasure.
Nick Cave is just an awesome poet and writer
God. I love Nick. I feel so bad he's faced such tragedy in his life. I can only imagine the heartache and sorrow he's had to deal with after losing not just one but two of his children to such tragic circumstances. Yet he consistently shows kindness and gratitude toward his fans who have reached out to console him. He spends more time talking about how they've changed his life and helped him through the horrific times he's been through. Nick Cave's music helped inspire me to become a poet but Nick Cave the person inspires me to be a better person myself.
I’ve never clicked on a notification faster! 😅 glad we got a video today, didn’t think it was going to happen and I need my daily JHRA! 🥰
Nick is a rare beastie and you will notice he was not disparaging to his fellow artistes like Kylie who lets be honest does love a nice nomination, he walks his own path and should be for ever encouraged to do so.
I still remember hearing Release The Bats and Nick The Stripper by his then band The Birthday Party when it was released on the John Peel show, talk about eye opening stuff.
Yaaaas
I am from Nick Cave’s hometown where he spent a lot of his childhood. He actually expressed in his documentary his absolute dislike of the town when he was growing up, which some took great offence to (not me, I understand his issues during this time period). However, when he did his solo acoustic tour where he took questions from the audience, he started the tour here in our small venue (small in terms of places he has played), and the way he approached this issue was with so much grace & humility. He is incredibly eloquent & poetic just in his everyday speech. When he writes this only becomes magnified. His Red Hand Files are fantastic. I was so lucky to have worked & then watched this performance as a great fan. I sat in our old tech position, resting with my chin cradled on my arms as I leaned on the window sill & I was completely transported. It was like he was playing only for me & from audience comments after I believe the 530 odd other listeners felt the same. It was one of the most magical performance experiences of my life.
You know better than any of us that he left town all those years ago in a hurry and under a cloud, after the parents of a girl contended that he had forced himself on their daughter. He told me this himself, many (man) years ago in Berlin (I really liked and admired him, but I felt he lacked a bit of maturity and self-awareness around the seriousness of such matters, at this time). Was his return still contentious, for that reason? Or, is it all water under the bridge now? Does he get the freedom of the city (town)?
@@jackhargreaves1911 hi I had never heard this & if true certainly shines a different light on his later years here. There was definitely never any mention of this that I know of in the time proceeding the performance or even during the performance (which actually surprises me). In fact the majority of the people who expressed dislike were more “He trashed our town in his documentary, he doesn’t get to come back & act like it’s all cool”. Which is what I was referring to that he handled with grace…He was confronted with this by an audience member during the performance & he actually apologised. The issues I was talking about for kids like Nick were more around an issue with country police brutality during the 70s to early 90s (though of course he’d left by then. There was definitely a certain attitude that kids that were a little different (ie didn’t play football or cricket) were not tolerated & routinely taken down dark country roads for a good beating. This was particularly nasty for some of the LGBTQIA+ community. There were particular cops that kids of that era knew to stay well away from. On top of this was horrific unchecked bullying in schools. I’ve also heard that there were some police harassment issues of his dad as well, but I have no direct information for this just rumours. Interestingly enough it is the sports culture in this town that (I feel) has created a culture where athletes have felt it was entirely acceptable to force themselves on girls or to get them passed out drunk & take turns assaulting them - and a blind eye was always turned.
Great comment. Im off to your town tomorrow for work. Ive just finished reading Mark Mordues "boy on fire" about Caves time coming of age and thought it was an insightful read that didn't gloss over his mistakes. Great to hear how his concert went there. Brave but also contrite of him to play there after saying some silly things many moons ago about it. I think a lot of us are rejecting our home situation in our youth.
wangaratta?
@@Wonderkell74 You could have described any number of small Australian towns and their "cultures." Your post made me think of mid 80's Deniliquin.
I’ve said this before but gotta say it again. Justin is so goddam cool it’s unreal.
I don’t know why I only feel the need to comment on that, because he also appears to be funny, witty, entertaining and an all around nice guy and a gentle man.
I love music. Don’t understand it in any technical sense and not sure I need to. But these semi deep dives into a song or a band have made me like and appreciate music even more. Thank you!
Love Nick Cave and this letter makes me love him even more! Love your channel Justin. Any chance of doing some videos covering a few of my favourite bands which are The Fall, Sonic Youth and Swans?
Finally some Nick Cave content!!! A genius who is all too often overlooked in music.
Or perhaps this letter is an example showing that Nick Cave asked to be overlooked in a lot of the ways we judge 'good' and 'popular'. His catalog speaks for itself and that's the way he wants it it would seem
My letter to mtv would go something like:
Dear MTV, why do you call your selves MTV?
Yours sincerely, an M lover.
Hi Justin,
Have you thought about having the odd special guest on your channel? Would Mr Frankie Poulain be up for it? Thank you for all the work you put into these videos.
Nick is always right. Always perfect. Always artistic.
I've seen him in concerts many times and it's always felt like a fresh experience.
There are bands I've seen twice and the second time, even though they played new songs, it was a little boring.
I could watch Nick perform ten more times and even if he'd play the same songs, it would always be exciting.
I love this! I feel like you dedicated 10 or so minutes to burying the lede, which you dropped, offhand, at the very end: "Lighten up, Nick..." Brilliant!
Nick Cave doesn't get nearly enough attention, I have been a fan for years. Not just his music but his art in total. He has such integrity with this statement.
Saw him live in Cologne two months ago. It was amazing.
What a beautifully, poetic letter. His muse is his metaphorical Lady, and he must treat her with love and respect. Or she will leave him. 😊👍♥️
Great to see you commenting on us Aussie artists!
Nick Cave is a legend!
And the positive reviews you've given from King GIzzo, Chats etc
Fantastic to see!
Kickin goals Justin!
I remember when he did that. Nick is right. Why I never watch award shows.
Late upload tonight? Love it 🙏🤟
Just when I thought I couldn't love him any more. King Ink has my heart forever.
Nick Cave is an absolute legend
I have always apricated artists that have done their own thing, sometimes I even like what they create, not always, but hey, that's life.
“Als das Kind Kind war,
wußte es nicht, daß es Kind war,
alles war ihm beseelt,
und alle Seelen waren eins.” Movies don’t come much better than Wings of Desire. As for Nick Cave, words are not enough….
Incredible movie. Had such an impact on me. I'd never seen anything that employed the depth of drama, music, cinematography exposing Berlin at that most amazing time until I saw Wings of Desire
When I saw the thumbnail I was really hoping you were critiquing a Bad Seeds song? Would be ace
I think a lot of people who only have a cursory awareness of Nick Cave are unaware of just how tongue and cheek he often is. He’s always had a dark sense of humor that has run through not only his work, but his relationship with the media and the press. He can also be very self deprecating and unassumingly playful in the way he presents himself. When I first got into his work 25+ years ago it was actually jarring to me, in fact, just how much so, because it completely went against the way the media often presented him. The 96’ VMA letter shouldn’t be taken too seriously, I don’t think - although his personality in the mid to late 90s was a bit more prickly then it is today (he was routinely fighting heroin addiction) I think the letter is more of a beautifully written “wink, wink” than anything else.
Justin, I love you and I’m so sorry but each time you sing your theme tune I can’t help but sing “The phantom of the opera is there, inside my mind” 😂
I second the request for thoughts on Rowland S Howard. Possibly the only person that ever intimidated Nick Cave? Parted by mid 90s. Teenage Snuff Film and Pop Crimes are amongst the best albums anyone ever made.
His cover of Billy Idol’s white wedding is perfection. I love both the original and his take. The one and only time I saw RSH is when Nick Cave curated ATP Mt Buller. But I’ve seen his brother’s bands lots of times.
Award shows are on the brink of extinction.
I'd also argue no band should agree to have MTV supposedly induct them into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, as if MTV owns this mythical place that exists only in our hearts and minds.
Nobody, least of all MTV, can induct anyone into this mythical place.
Rather, we can say about a Great Band, "they're in the rock & roll hall of fame".
My favourite Nick Cave story is from the 90s, he and Tex Perkins went for a meal at a karaoke restaurant in Brisbane and they ended up doing what he described as "full urban terrorist" versions of classics like "My Way," with knee drops and screams.....
I've been to Nick's home town many times, usually to do some fishing when I am in the region! LOTS of musos in that region!
im a simple man, i see nick cave, i click
Cave has accepted the Australian best artist award
Loving the content Justin. Lovely stuff. Tell me though, why are you holding a sausage in the video for I Believe in a Thing called Love?
Hi Justin, any chance of a Biffy Clyro video ?
🤘
Question! As a world-renowned axeman, what drew you to a DX7 tattoo? Loving your work, see you in Perth in October!
Just read an article about 20 songs, going back decades, that did not win for Best Song at the Grammys in their year and 70% of them on the list are stone cold _killer_ monster tracks.
Proves awards are shit. Simply a promotional or political tool 90% of the time.
i was at a Nick Cave show in 1992, the SFX Hall in Dublin,, a bit of a pit really, it was a near riot, the security had a difficult time,, anyway,, the encore,,," I wanna tell you about a girl......." The small but dedicated crowd go apoplectic, I was right down the front against the barrier,, Nick, puts his foot upon a stage light, right at the edge of the stage, and carelessly boots it onto the very large head of a security guy,, brick shit house guy, huge, bald with his head caved in by Cave,, the entire show was tense, angry, venal and rupturing to this very point, The security guy, growled and i could hear him over the PA, the madness within the song, was actually brought to life, great gig though.
It's not a competition, but I've won.
-Nick Cave, probably.
poetry is always right.
I suggest if no one has read it, Read his book "And the ass saw the angel". The imagery is amazingly intense and never lets up, very similar to PERFUME by Susskind, which wasn't in Mr. Cave's list of favorite books, I don't know whether to believe that.
I don't know much about Nick Cave I know I love ur channel Much appreciated from AZ
Fuck mate do yourself a favor start with his original band the Birthday Party then move into his brilliance 🇦🇺🤘🍻🔥
Tink he might be in danger of disappearing up his own posterior...
It is never wrong to be true to your principles. If you sincerely believe that creativity should not be judged, compared or put a value on, you don’t want to betray that creativity by actively participating in a celebration of not only the music itself, but also the measurement of popularity and sales, the judgement and idolization of the makers of that music.
I totally get it. Enjoy the music, let it speak to you, there is no need for anything else.
Maybe one day we can realise that artists are humans, not gods.
Red Shirt unt Black Waistcoat 😋 "Uno Cerevza Por Favor".
Lighten Up, Nick: the new single from Sparks.
I met Nick Cave whilst shopping the day of a show in Atlanta's Little Five Points neighborhood and couldn't help but go all 15-yr-old-girl-meets-a-Beatle on him. He signed my journal and kind of ran away. Lol
👏 Justin!
Coincidentally - This clip posted the same date as Nick C & Bad Seeds LIVE in Tel Aviv, Israel !!! Almost went, but...
I love nick cave and the bad seeds. They are Australia’s RUSH. They’re amazing and I hold them very much in the same category as Kate Bush and Rush.
Mehhhh that might be ACDC? Nick Cave is more like Australia's Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, or Tom Waits. Oh no, the Neil Young. Except Warren Ellis is his old black? This analogy is going off the rails.
Aaaaaargh. So not like Rush.
See above comment
Justin, with Nick Cave talking about his muse in the letter have you have had any problems with writers block when writing songs ?, love the channel and the vids, keep it up !!😁
You can't tell Nick Cave to lighten up because he is always so Daaark (ness)
Craftily replaces a bottle to bait people into asking if it was a beer bottle? Hahhaha
I think nick was probably too polite to point out the obvious. That us yo say that if he hadn't done the duets there would probably have been no nomination for him and his particular style particular style .
Being a Queen fan as I am, I adore John Deacon. Can we get an episode around John Deacon in any aspect? Much Love 💝
He's not lying about the muse being fickle. When I first got into home recording in 2003, I wrote an album's worth of material in the span of a year. That is the first and, unfortunately, the last time I've ever experienced a thing like that. I'm not comparing myself to Nick Cave, or even saying that I've written anything that could have been commercially successful, just that I have a modicum of understanding for the process.
see you on the ice in NZ Justin
Yes, I think he was right to send the letter.
I know some great athletes that do not enter competitions. You can enjoy your hobby and not be competive. My mum is a great cook, but doesn't enter cookery competitions, my dad is a great Gardner and doesn't enter gardening competitions.
You have to be mentally strong and be able to handle loosing too. This can affect you in many ways, and I believe Nick would not take well to the emotional roller coaster of the high of being nominated and the low of loosing.
As In gambling, when the fun stops: stop! Or better still, do nor get in to gambling
So many layers to music aren't there Justin? A lot of it is intensely private or even spiritual, then there's the band thing, the social thing around the band thing, then a highly nuanced (even political) set of jousts around publicity and management. All of these, I imagine, can be artforms if approached in a certain way. I suppose musicians have their own biases about the bits they engage with in this way and the bits they won't. Layers, innt? Anyway, love these brief glimpses into your thinking. Cheers!
“Hwings” that’s your Stewie Griffin talkin….
Should probably be noted that this letter is from 1996 when MTV was culturally far more important than. It is today!
Delicious to think as per "Wings of Desire" that you probably remembered the very MTV-Ready garbage remake with Nic Cage and Meg Ryan and refused to mention it... 😆
Jus Hawk and the Good Bulbs would have accepted their nomination.
Thanks!
Cheers Keef!
Three seconds in this guy is nuts
Oh yeah and you will never see a raper doing this, they just grab the microphone from people that win and complain, so thank God for people like Nick Cave a true musician in my book
I love Nick Cave but it would’ve been much funnier had he let Blixa write that letter in the middle of an evening of wrongfully spending record company advances.
justin, will you ever do a video on butch walker? 😩
I've been a Nick Cave fan since Tender Prey and I've seen him live countless times. He's a literature nerd in the classic sense and a purveyor of outstanding murder ballads. He puts on a damn fine tent revival too. Sure, MTV is just a bit of fun, but part of that is Howlin' Lord Byron telling them to respectfully fuck off. It would be a dull conclave indeed if everyone wanted to be a part of it.
Post punk has a certain level of haughty aloofness, I guess that’s why I like it. His muse shan’t be tamed. Lighten the fuck up Nick 🤣 He is a god in my house but you knew that already.
Hi Justin, Mark here from Australia. Have you looked at the Aussie band - DMAS. I think you would love one of there recent tracks - Junk Truck Head Fuck. Very Oasis sounding Cheers Mark
Nick Cave truly is a genius from his early work to his most recent probably one of the greatest lyricists poet and word smith him and Warren Ellis are almost a modern version of Richards/Jagger or Lennon/McCartney
Most definitely buddy
Do Squid. Not the mollusc, the band.
Possibly the best band at Glastonbury this year, but I’m not sure what is going on
I’d happily scrap every entertainment award there is, from the Oscars to MTV. The only performers that would be annoyed would be the ones full of their own self importance. Even if it is a bit pretentious, Nick can do no wrong in my eyes……
Excellent!
Hey Justin!
I'd be awesome if you could do a video on Arctic Monkeys since they're on a tour and constantly trending on Twitter.
Loving your videos btw!
NC, is leaving legend like Leo Cohen was, in terms of music and writtings
I always had total respect for nick cave for doing this. I can't stand awards shows - they are the total antithesis of what art is about. also, I'm still pissed that Parachutes by Coldplay beat XTRMNTR by Primal Scream for the Mercury in 2000.
1. Coldplay have never won the Mercury. 2. XTRMNTR was never nominated
@@danshaggy292 maybe Parachutes was nominated ahead of XTRMNTR then. I remember Bobby Gillespie going on a rant about the lack of recognition XTRMNTR got, and justifiably so I think. Coldplay might have got the Brit award that year instead.
@@MassiveCatLittleLegs XTMNTR is great, and I much prefer it to Screamadelica. But maybe that's a debate for another day!
reminds me of frank zappa;s letter to, mmmmmmm i think the nyt's " the nation that chose cheese. Farking hilarious and punk lol
Wings of Desire is an amazing movie (much better than City of Angels)
fuck I love this channel!
Hi Justin, it is I... Knife Prty !
Question: did you (or more precisely the entity known as The Darkness) get paid, when MTV played a "The Darkness" video on their TV station? I'm thinking about the time period known as the early 2000s but I guess the question applies to all time.
If so, did the payment differ, depending on the time of day or the show or feature that was being transmitted at the time ?
Thanks in advance for your response 👍
"Do they reduce music to a competitive sport?" Well, I suppose fans of competitive sport would ask "do they elevate music to a competitive sport?"...
That is an excellent, logical point. I'm not a fan of competitive sport, but I am of rhetoric, so bravo, sir. 👏👏 May you have a lovely week. 😊🌷
@@HandmadeDarcy Thank you. Yes, I'm not a sports fan either, but it's "horses for courses", I suppose. I much prefer music. I hope you have a lovely week too!
That was a great letter by Nick Cave. I haven't really delved much into his music. Where would be a good place to start? He's got an enormous back catalogue
The Boatman Call, Abattoir Blues, Push the sky away, Tender Prey, Murder Ballads, Skeleton Tree… it’s hard to choose. I usually suggest to start with a live album and dig back from there. The live in Copenhagen is a real good example of what they sound like lately on stage and covers a rather wide spectrum of his catalogue.
@@jonathanrolland3419 Thanks Jonathan!
@@jonathanrolland3419 Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds are playing in London on Sun. It's a big day event with lots of other acts. Quite tempted to grab myself a last minute ticket!
You will not regret it. I ve just caught him last week in Vilnius, it was impressive. So him in London Victoria Park a few years back, just as good.
I’d work backwards, I think his later quieter albums are amongst the greatest recordings in music but I’m not a fan of his louder shoutier early stuff. I am over 50 though and may well have thought the opposite if I was still 20 😂
I Love you by fontaines please Justin!
Been listening to the Nell Smith and Flaming Lips covers quite a lot - they don't seem to have any mainstream traction but that's irrelevant
Who's got an EMPTY V tonight? ;o)
Nick cave is a genius a true maverick and his body of work says it all moving mesmerising Rockin and rolling ☝️🌏☝️❤️ and long may it continue I wish he would do another Grinderman album 🤞
Nick Cave has always been leagues ahead of the cookie cutter songwriters and entertainer bands dying to be popular i.e Ed repeat myself a million times Sheeran and the inoffensively dull Chris boring Martin. Cave does not water down his work to please the hard of hearing/thinking. A true great in a world of sonic wallpaper. paste "artists". What passes for artists in music today is like elevating Spin magazine to Joyce's Ulysses. Same shit different year.
No one comes close to the legend that is Nick cave yeah spot on yeah only have to look how many albums he has done since the pandemic I wish that he would do a another Grinderman Album 🤞☝️❤️☝️🌏
Doesn't he sound like Scot Walker?
would you consider reviewing something by Mano Negra? (not king of bongo)