All I can say is WOW! This is some really creative solutions to some severe machining challenges. There are probably few shops out there that have the capabilities of custom grinding in house, and on the fly, custom cutters and gun drills like you are doing here. The cost of this part with the wear you get on the cutting tools would just eat any profit up very quickly for your average shop. Your capabilities bring a lot of value to the table on a part like this. Hats off to you sir!
Hi Peter! You probably receive tons of appreciation and praise for your time and effort in sharing your videos, as if running those,machines weren't enough of a challenge. This post isn't far from that. I too just wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge. I will probably never use a Mazak but I, along with everyone else that tunes into your channel, get many ideas and setups to use on a manual machine. Thanks again Amigo!
It’s amazing even with 25 years experience under my belt I’m still impressed watching fellow machinists talent. Good stuff Peter. I’m always learning something new from you. Thank you. 😎👍🏽
The way you check the concentricity run out is also the way we use to check the driveshaft alignment between electric motor and gear reducer on big cooling towers. It works very good. You do an amazing work thank for sharing your knowledge! I can´t even think about the tools costs on a part like this !
Guillaume Van Der Meulen Do you get indicator sag when the dti is upside down ,I was shown a method that used two indicators one on the motor shaft and the other on the machine shaft , with trig you could work out the shims and side to side jacking ,but indicators sag was a problem
I machine inconels almost everyday.... trust me SANDVIK 1020 carbide inserts are the best in the world. That's a lot of machining and I've lost count of how many tools you had to use. Great video. 👏👍
Thanks I will check into that. I am using a Sandvik finish grooving insert grade 1105 witch is the grade that Sandvik recommended. Its working fine but its just a finishing tool. I resist the use of Sandvik inserts unless absolutely necessary because they cost so much. To give you an example that Sandvik insert I'm using costs $21.50 each (The only reason I'm using it is because their tool only holds that insert) the insert I'm roughing all the grooves is a ToolFlow top noch insert (Interchangeable with other brands) it costs $14.30 each and its roughing or doing more work. I have many Sandvik tool holders and silent boring tools they are indispensable and I wouldn't want to do without them. I just wish the could be more competitive with the price of their inserts.
Edge Precision Big name brands never disappoint . I use regularly a couple of big brand name inserts , and also a few smaller manufacturers . Every time the more expensive one wins . By how much depends on situation ... . The most expensive insert i worked with was a sandvik grooving insert , something N123-0400-0004 1125 tf i think so .... Each damn insert has a list price of 27.5 euros , but it's worth it .
I'm not a machinist by any means, but having watched tons of videos, thousands of hours, I've never seen anyone recommend rotating the spindle as you indicate it. Mind blown. Totally makes sense. Yah, this makes me an armchair quarterback, but still learning cnc and machining where I can. Thanks.
Awesome work Peter. I learn something new every time I watch one of your videos. Great video on how you went about these features on the part. Looking forward to the second video.
Thanks for showing the steady rest function. That's some clever geometry. Great work as usual, Peter. My wife can't understand how I can sit through all this "boring stuff" but when you're in the trade, anything like this is interesting.
I feel so insignificant running an old SQT30m compared to this machine! haha It's great seeing the work you do with the Integrex. One of the best channels I am subbed to for sure.
Does mazak request you to give them any advices on the current machine performance as you got much experience on it as well as this kind of machining works. lol.
I made me and my wife’s wedding rings from inconel(about a half size big so they couldn’t get stuck on your finger lol) but with only about a 0.06” wall thickness I chucked up on them after parting them off to finish the other face and break the edges and the ovality stayed really concentric even with that thin of a wall. VERY strong material. Even eats up inserts designed for inconel like it’s nobodies business!
When I started my apprenticeship in 1977, one of the jobs I was given to do was switch on the machines so they warmed up. Learnt very quickly to make sure the coolant pipe was not pointing at me as I got blasted a few times at 6.50 AM lol
Fortunately this machine cant run the coolant with the doors open. But it does sometimes take a little time for the high pressure coolant to bleed down and I have got sprayed with coolant opening the doors to soon. Been there done that.
Ah ha, the old toolmakers used to set the pipe knowing the very keen apprentice would do what ever he was asked.....hence i got wet a few times. Got my own back over time. blue marker die on the handles and paint the light bulb black lol. love your work. Tim
Is funny reading your comment. When we were welding out on site some guys that were hired in to make up the numbers were thinking they were pretty good. So i fix them up, i use to put black cardboard in there automatic welding helmets. It was so funny they had NO idea what was wrong they started talking about how much there helmet cost and that they were going to take them back to where they brought them from. Idiots ???????
Great stuff as always. I particularly liked the reamer/chamfer tool combo. 718 is brutal on tool life and your machine gives up some rigidity for all that extra functionality.
You explained the jaw pressure relax or release what ever you like perfectly..all parts although the material is the same has a different skin hardness or tension qualities... Due to cooling grinding and rolling pressure there is a very slight difference and I mean slight so you compensate for that...that's what I was taught anyway..
Your not yet seeing the complete operation on this end of the part. To do this complete operation takes about 20 hours on each part. But like I say you haven’t seen all of it yet. I still have to do the other end. I don’t yet know how long that will take.
great video - love the creativity with the second chuck in the steady rest! How are you creeping up on your finishing turn passes when you need to index your inserts so often? How much would you leave for the final pass? Do you index, cut, measure, offset, then finish more or less?
The finish turning inserts last enough to get to size but no more. I can’t run two parts with one tip. The rough boring bar you saw in this video will rough the entire bore on one tip but no more. On the OD roughing (next video) I have to index the insert every pass.
Makes sense. So do you expect your finishing inserts to index with enough repeatability that you can just change it out and run to finish depth? Or do you check them at some point? Maybe ground tolerance inserts help with repeatability?
Damn.... machining that Inconel alloy is some serious operation, must be really expensive if the cutting tools wear out so fast.Thanks for sharing and explaining the operation!
4/1000 inch or appr 0.1mm per turn change of radius on that boring head @ 19:30 is extremely fine adjustment. Is there some hydraulic magic or a lever/gear or similar in there, because I don''t think there's a 0.1mm pitch ACME screw in there (would be very flimsy). All the ISO40 boring heads that I refurbished so far, had simple ACME screws in it. Thereby I'm a bit curious on how that thing works ;-D
These ITS boring heads have a precision worm gear drive to the lead screw. So what you are turning is the worm that engages the gear that turns the lead screw. It is all very precisely made with very little backlash. These ITS heads are really made by DeAndriea.
I use Guhring End mills and drills, they work good. For indexable lathe / Mill tooling i use sandvik. Do you do a warm up routine for your machines at start of the workday?
Hey Peter, when indicating at 8:50, how do you compensate for the effects of gravity on the indicator as you spin it around? I noticed you weren't using a coaxial indicator which is usually more resilient to shifting the orientation relative to gravity.
I have tested this indicator arm and indicator for errors due to gravity and it has very little. In other words not enough to worry about. But you are correct some arms have quite a bit of error. Any one that uses indicators in the horizontal position should test their holding method and the indicator it self for error due to gravity. Actually the spindle probe would be the most accurate because it’s calibrated in both vertical and horizontal position.
Aside from travel limits, is there any other reason to index the boring bar to 12:00? I would think it could just as easily cut the bore at 3, 6, 9, or with two axis motion at any position. Just curious if there is something that makes that position the most ideal.
The way the machine uses its offsets for turning you have to do turning in the X axis. It would be possible to do what you suggest but as I said you couldn’t use the normal wear offsets or tip comp for the turning tools. Also this machine only has 10mm X minus travel. So everything milling and turning has to be done in the X positive direction.
Inconel is bizarre stuff.. I can't imagine what sort of valve assembly needs to be made of it. Your rotating chuck steady is beautiful! I'm guessing it had to be made because of the high tool pressure working with alien metal?
About backing off all the jaws: Backing off all four for better runout probably has to do with the backlash in the jaw threads. If you back them all off and re-tighten then the backlash is pushing the same direction in all four. Just a guess.
Thanks John! Probably not but I check it anyway. I am dealing with .002" true position tolerances on some of the milling features on the end of this part. When I have to pay for a expensive piece of material and remake the part,---- well you know what I mean. I just want to be sure. Remember measure twice cut once. It only take a few minutes.
Sense the flood in Houston I haven’t been back in my house because the repairs aren’t finished yet. When I get back I will be making some videos in my garage for sure.
Wow, it is easy to forget about that when you are not faced with it personally. I hope it works out for you, it must be stressful. Were any of the machines damaged?
465maltbie no the machines are OK. We got very little water in the garage. Only about 1.5”. The garage must be a little higher elevation than the house.
Tremendous video, you teach in a way that's easy to learn, thanks for continuing to take the time to make them. I would like to ask you about how you checked your part for concentricity by rotating the dial gauge and the part together. I can see why you need to do this as clocking the part true in the 4 jaw doesn't mean it's parallel to the centre line of the spindle just true to the 'centre' of the steady, but for this method to work don't you have to assume that your tail stock is 'spot on' centre (and you have show use before that yours is adjustable) or else aren't you just measuring any error between the tail stock and centre line of the steady?
Rotating the part the way I showed isn't for checking concentricity. It for setting the X and Y Zero on the fixture offset. If there is run out at the end of the parts OD and your indicating that OD. So if you rotate the part with the indicator and remain in the same location on that OD. You will in this way will be eliminating the actual run out of the part and be finding the true center of rotation.
Thanks for the reply, I should have been more observant before asking a dumb question. For some reason I had it in my head that you had the dial gauge mounted on your live centre in the tail stock but, of course, you actually had in in the B axis spindle. Oh well another senior moment! :)
Thanks as always. Hey when spotting do you believe you should spot with an angle so the drill hits the spot hole with the point first? (and not hitting the cone from the spot with the drills edges) So with 118 degree twist drill use a 120 degree spot drill minimum? Thats what Ive read but also heard otherwise. Thanks again.
Really complex process . Like really . I see the reasoning behind it . But if you had a worker , i bet you couldn't trust him to do such a meticulous and precise work ( like changing tooling so often , etc. ) . The part turned out nicely so far . Is it a hard material or just generally a pain like some stainless alloys ?
It depends on the type of inconel and its heat treat. Inconel is a age hardening material so it can be heat treated to increase its mechanical properties. It doesn't get real hard like say steel but it gets tougher. This particular kind 718 can be around 120 ksi yield strength all the way to about 160 ksi yield. When you get up in the 150 ksi yield it is considerably harder to machine than say 135 ksi. There is what they call a double heat treating process that improves it's machinability. The rating goes something like this. Low carbon Resulferized steels have a 100% rating. The 700 series inconels fall into an area of 9-12% rating. That may give you some idea.
I am assuming you have the correct coolant pressure and volume. In that material my starting parameters would probably be 150 sfm at a feed of .0005" per revolution. My values are in inches you will need to convert them to metric. I will say this I have had more difficulty gun drilling 300 series stainless than practically any other material. It tends to erode the lands on the gundrill for some reason. I am drilling with water based coolant. It would be better if you could drill with oil if possible.
yeah, we have correct coolant pressure with water based coolant. at least everything works with 20MnV60(60m/min, 0.04mm/rev(if i remember it correctly)). for aisi we have received values from drill manufactorer like 45m/min, 0.036mm/rev. but not sure if that works, i didnt try those. other worker i guess tried and did not work very well, lasted one drilling. i think i try 30m/min with 0.04mm/rev(or the same with 20MnV60) once i have chance to do that.
When doing the 9" deep hole and gun drill holes how do you start your drill cycle? Rotating and feeding all the way or do you start the spindle once inside the pre drilled hole?
With the gun drills I feed in at 50 inches per minute with the spindle stopped. Than turn the spindle and coolant on. Than start the drilling cycle. With the 1.25” drill I just start the spindle and coolant rapid in to just short of the previous holes depth. Than start the drilling cycle. I set the R plane for these cycles at the same level as the entry move.
Hi Peter, very interesting, would it be an ide to have a spinning disk "wiper" in front of camera, seperate from camera mount so not to transfer vibrations.
The Oleophobic coating on this window to repel the water/oil was old. In the next video (I haven't posted it yet)I replaced the glass window. It now does better. There is a limited life to the coating under the coolant. These windows are expensive and I'm trying to stretch out there use as much as possible. The thing about trying to use anything mechanical is the power required in the wet environment and the noise it would make. I want the sound as much as possible. If I was to use air to drive things it would require a lot of pressure and volume. This again would make a lot of noise. The air knife on the camera case only requires about 20 psi to function and is virtually silent.
Hi Peter, Not to step further in it, But what if you had a coolant driven motor for the "spinner" I suppose you have acces to high pressure coolant, and this "spinner" might work with Rainex and that would might also extend the life of camera "windows"
First of all thank you. I use a .0001 dial bore gauge to measure the bore because, two reasons. 1: A dial bore gauge set to a stack of properly ringed together gage blocks standard has more accuracy and resolution than a 3 point mic. 2: if the bore isn’t round or has a taper you can see that on the dial. A 3 point mic won’t show that. Or at least not as accurately.
question: 9:41 if your position screen shows the tool like that (exactly you're calling) but it's cutting exactly the opposite does it mean anything?/ is something off/
The Mazatrol my machine has is older the tools icon it shows on the position display is depiction of the tool type. It doesn't have anything to do with how the tool is being used or its orientation.
It doesn’t lock. It just holds with the hydraulic pressure. There are other lines that connect to the steady rest. There is a constant air pressure inside to help prevent coolant ingress. Also there a Oiler that feeds oil to the roller bearings and pivot points.
Machine shops with CNC really ought to invest in tool presetter to get lengths and offsets of each tool. Iwas using such a thing about30 years ago. Makes for easy set up. Some people forget to alter the offsets and make amazing crashes...
The only reason anyone crashes a machine is not paying attention to their distance to display. When you run a unproven program or tool you should pay attention to what you are doing. this is nothing but a lazy machine operator/machinist.
There are plenty of reasons people crash machines beyond being lazy. I agree a majority could be avoided by paying attention but sometimes when facing on a horizonta lor turning on a vertical lathe a part , a tool could fail and eject the part. It happens so fast that even with your hands on the dials, you won't catch it in time before it goes boom . These instances may not be a machine on machine crash but they can often kick your turret or spindle out of alignment.
In that video I didn’t show the machining of the end of the part. That video starts where this ends. So I had already removed the chuck in the steady rest.
My steady rest wont close down to the diameter of this part. So I mounted a heavy walled steel tube on the back of this 4-Jaw chuck that rides in the stead's jaws than I can clamp to a smaller diameter in the chuck. This also has the advantage that with the chuck in front of the roller jaws it keep chips from getting under the rollers.
The coolant plays a role. If your doing a intermittent cut where the insert gets hot than it leaves the cut hot and the cold coolant hits it. It cools to quick after time this situation can cause fractures in the inserts edge. Witch eventually causes the edge to fail.
@@EdgePrecision yes it doent seem to be a problem in a drill with high pressure coolant holes but on shell mills oppsy poosy . I repaired lots of huge cnc machines that were custom built. I had to figure out why the inserts kept failing . It was partly the insert supply. Company intentionally giving us rejected inserts to increase sales. During this I found this odd blue mist oil that worked like a miracle but I cant renember the name of it. All that was needed was flush coolant on all milling operations.
Imagine the bean counter who had to sign off on a part like this; I'm not callous enough to ask but I can take a guess at how much I'd charge for the labour alone.
Oooh yes so fascinating to see the Inconel get machined. I've always heard horror stories about inconel tool life, didn't *quite* realize how bad it actually was! What is your instagram handle, by the way? would love to follow you there as well. Great video, thank you for the education!
I don’t really have the time or want to risk expensive material testing many different insert materials. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. For instance ceramic will do the job faster but the inserts are much more expensive. Witch in itself wouldn’t be a problem but the heat and the stress they would put into the part would cause problems. So you see there are always tradeoffs.
Jeez...That's a lot of carbide! Do you regring your drills afte? Were I live the machine shops mostly use manual machines for servicing agricultural equipment, and usually if an edge get's dull they touch them up on a diamond wheel to avoid using another edge (no matter if they are coated, uncoated or whatever) but for turning to a close tolerance on such tough materials this would be a nightmare! Maybe you could stack a few used ones and get a lead chipbreaker ground into them.
Peter, thanks for sharing, always enjoy watching you videos! I have a question though, after you chucked up the part in the 4 jaw and indicated the part in by the 4 jaw, How did you know that the center in the end of the part that the tailstock went into was running true? Was it center drilled in that setup and not shown? My thought is that if that center drill hole runs out a little the tailstock could influence the part to run on center during the turning operation but after you release the tailstock the part goes back off center, and you end up with a warped part. May be I'm just over thinking this... thanks for sharing
Sorry I don't totally control those adds. If you watch a lot of RUclips you might consider paying $12.00 a month for premium. Than you see no adds. For me it's worth it.
"I need 1-2 thousanths tolerance on an inconel C-276 part." Umm.....That's typically a wrought alloy for welded assemblies. Use a material that's machining friendly please?
You watch this and its like, yeah I do that with a special reamer that I ground. You know like, I am making this sandwich with these Tomatoes that I genetically engineered... like custom grinding a reamer is what you do while chatting on the phone. No biggy.
The customer supplied this material so I can’t give you a exact answer. But this type of inconel costs around $20.00 a pound. So if the stock was (I can’t remember the exact dimensions) say four inches in diameter by twenty inches long. That would be roughly $1,500.00.
All I can say is WOW! This is some really creative solutions to some severe machining challenges. There are probably few shops out there that have the capabilities of custom grinding in house, and on the fly, custom cutters and gun drills like you are doing here. The cost of this part with the wear you get on the cutting tools would just eat any profit up very quickly for your average shop. Your capabilities bring a lot of value to the table on a part like this. Hats off to you sir!
Hi Peter!
You probably receive tons of appreciation and praise for your time and effort in sharing your videos, as if running those,machines weren't enough of a challenge.
This post isn't far from that. I too just wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge. I will probably never use a Mazak but I, along with everyone else that tunes into your channel, get many ideas and setups to use on a manual machine.
Thanks again Amigo!
It’s amazing even with 25 years experience under my belt I’m still impressed watching fellow machinists talent. Good stuff Peter. I’m always learning something new from you. Thank you. 😎👍🏽
Incredible! A pleasure to watch you work Peter. Thanks.
The way you check the concentricity run out is also the way we use to check the driveshaft alignment between electric motor and gear reducer on big cooling towers. It works very good.
You do an amazing work thank for sharing your knowledge! I can´t even think about the tools costs on a part like this !
Guillaume Van Der Meulen
Do you get indicator sag when the dti is upside down ,I was shown a method that used two indicators one on the motor shaft and the other on the machine shaft , with trig you could work out the shims and side to side jacking ,but indicators sag was a problem
I machine inconels almost everyday.... trust me SANDVIK 1020 carbide inserts are the best in the world. That's a lot of machining and I've lost count of how many tools you had to use. Great video. 👏👍
Thanks I will check into that. I am using a Sandvik finish grooving insert grade 1105 witch is the grade that Sandvik recommended. Its working fine but its just a finishing tool. I resist the use of Sandvik inserts unless absolutely necessary because they cost so much. To give you an example that Sandvik insert I'm using costs $21.50 each (The only reason I'm using it is because their tool only holds that insert) the insert I'm roughing all the grooves is a ToolFlow top noch insert (Interchangeable with other brands) it costs $14.30 each and its roughing or doing more work. I have many Sandvik tool holders and silent boring tools they are indispensable and I wouldn't want to do without them. I just wish the could be more competitive with the price of their inserts.
Edge Precision Big name brands never disappoint . I use regularly a couple of big brand name inserts , and also a few smaller manufacturers . Every time the more expensive one wins . By how much depends on situation ... . The most expensive insert i worked with was a sandvik grooving insert , something N123-0400-0004 1125 tf i think so .... Each damn insert has a list price of 27.5 euros , but it's worth it .
I'm not a machinist by any means, but having watched tons of videos, thousands of hours, I've never seen anyone recommend rotating the spindle as you indicate it. Mind blown. Totally makes sense. Yah, this makes me an armchair quarterback, but still learning cnc and machining where I can. Thanks.
You work like a god. I use your ideas in my work. You my sensei. I am from Ukraine.
Fascinating.
Great procedural explanation..
Awesome work Peter. I learn something new every time I watch one of your videos. Great video on how you went about these features on the part. Looking forward to the second video.
Thanks for showing the steady rest function. That's some clever geometry. Great work as usual, Peter. My wife can't understand how I can sit through all this "boring stuff" but when you're in the trade, anything like this is interesting.
thank you for taking the time to make these
dan
Peter, when you broke out the steady rest manual my engineer senses tingled. Awesome channel man!
I am in Awe! Although I will never operate a machine like this. I bow to your skill and expertise.
Thank you for showing the steady rest information. I have always suspected they work that way but have never had any personal experience with them.
I feel so insignificant running an old SQT30m compared to this machine! haha It's great seeing the work you do with the Integrex. One of the best channels I am subbed to for sure.
It's so amazing to see you working with all this custom tooling. I can't imagine how much these parts cost!
Peter, you are the Mazak MASTER! Awesome stuff mate!
Does mazak request you to give them any advices on the current machine performance as you got much experience on it as well as this kind of machining works. lol.
Was that question directed at me or Peter?
Oh, it is for Peter but don't take it serious.
Mazak did ask me if they could use one of my videos. I'm not really sure if they did. But other than that no.
Great tip about the indicating and checking against run out.
I made me and my wife’s wedding rings from inconel(about a half size big so they couldn’t get stuck on your finger lol) but with only about a 0.06” wall thickness I chucked up on them after parting them off to finish the other face and break the edges and the ovality stayed really concentric even with that thin of a wall. VERY strong material. Even eats up inserts designed for inconel like it’s nobodies business!
What an operation for a part, thanks again for a great video
Really enjoy watching you work. Looking forward to the rest of this part!
When I started my apprenticeship in 1977, one of the jobs I was given to do was switch on the machines so they warmed up. Learnt very quickly to make sure the coolant pipe was not pointing at me as I got blasted a few times at 6.50 AM lol
Fortunately this machine cant run the coolant with the doors open. But it does sometimes take a little time for the high pressure coolant to bleed down and I have got sprayed with coolant opening the doors to soon. Been there done that.
Ah ha, the old toolmakers used to set the pipe knowing the very keen apprentice would do what ever he was asked.....hence i got wet a few times. Got my own back over time.
blue marker die on the handles and paint the light bulb black lol. love your work.
Tim
Is funny reading your comment.
When we were welding out on site some guys that were hired in to make up the numbers were thinking they were pretty good.
So i fix them up, i use to put black cardboard in there automatic welding helmets.
It was so funny they had NO idea what was wrong they started talking about how much there helmet cost and that they were going to take them back to where they brought them from.
Idiots ???????
Your the man Peter! Amazing work and an amazing machine.
ATB, Robin
Great stuff as always. I particularly liked the reamer/chamfer tool combo. 718 is brutal on tool life and your machine gives up some rigidity for all that extra functionality.
Fascinating, as always. Great video work too.
Awesome as always Peter, thank you!
You explained the jaw pressure relax or release what ever you like perfectly..all parts although the material is the same has a different skin hardness or tension qualities... Due to cooling grinding and rolling pressure there is a very slight difference and I mean slight so you compensate for that...that's what I was taught anyway..
Peter your videos are great !!
nice, 12K view in a week, how is that possible for a video like this..?
It is hard to believe, isn’t it.
How many hours does it take total to make this valve body? Excellent work.
Your not yet seeing the complete operation on this end of the part. To do this complete operation takes about 20 hours on each part. But like I say you haven’t seen all of it yet. I still have to do the other end. I don’t yet know how long that will take.
20 hours...wow. How many parts do you have to make?
There is only seven parts.
very nice video Peter!
Awesome video and filming.
Great job Peter.
Thanks Bill.
great video - love the creativity with the second chuck in the steady rest! How are you creeping up on your finishing turn passes when you need to index your inserts so often? How much would you leave for the final pass? Do you index, cut, measure, offset, then finish more or less?
The finish turning inserts last enough to get to size but no more. I can’t run two parts with one tip. The rough boring bar you saw in this video will rough the entire bore on one tip but no more. On the OD roughing (next video) I have to index the insert every pass.
Makes sense. So do you expect your finishing inserts to index with enough repeatability that you can just change it out and run to finish depth? Or do you check them at some point? Maybe ground tolerance inserts help with repeatability?
Damn.... machining that Inconel alloy is some serious operation, must be really expensive if the cutting tools wear out so fast.Thanks for sharing and explaining the operation!
Not all Inconel is this tough. It’s the heat treat on this material that makes it so hard to machine.
Thanks for sharing Peter!
You really have the air blade on the camera working well.
Wow , the Holy Grail of the machining world.
4/1000 inch or appr 0.1mm per turn change of radius on that boring head @ 19:30 is extremely fine adjustment. Is there some hydraulic magic or a lever/gear or similar in there, because I don''t think there's a 0.1mm pitch ACME screw in there (would be very flimsy).
All the ISO40 boring heads that I refurbished so far, had simple ACME screws in it. Thereby I'm a bit curious on how that thing works ;-D
These ITS boring heads have a precision worm gear drive to the lead screw. So what you are turning is the worm that engages the gear that turns the lead screw. It is all very precisely made with very little backlash. These ITS heads are really made by DeAndriea.
Thanks, always interesting to know on how things work, even if they are beyond my budget ;-)
I use Guhring End mills and drills, they work good. For indexable lathe / Mill tooling i use sandvik.
Do you do a warm up routine for your machines at start of the workday?
What an outrageously tough stock material
Peter, you cut that inconel like 316ss 😍😍, is amazing what you can do with the right tooling
Hey Peter, when indicating at 8:50, how do you compensate for the effects of gravity on the indicator as you spin it around? I noticed you weren't using a coaxial indicator which is usually more resilient to shifting the orientation relative to gravity.
I have tested this indicator arm and indicator for errors due to gravity and it has very little. In other words not enough to worry about. But you are correct some arms have quite a bit of error. Any one that uses indicators in the horizontal position should test their holding method and the indicator it self for error due to gravity. Actually the spindle probe would be the most accurate because it’s calibrated in both vertical and horizontal position.
It's such a precision. May I know if the steady rest has the brake facility when it is needed.
Aside from travel limits, is there any other reason to index the boring bar to 12:00? I would think it could just as easily cut the bore at 3, 6, 9, or with two axis motion at any position. Just curious if there is something that makes that position the most ideal.
The way the machine uses its offsets for turning you have to do turning in the X axis. It would be possible to do what you suggest but as I said you couldn’t use the normal wear offsets or tip comp for the turning tools. Also this machine only has 10mm X minus travel. So everything milling and turning has to be done in the X positive direction.
Inconel is bizarre stuff.. I can't imagine what sort of valve assembly needs to be made of it.
Your rotating chuck steady is beautiful! I'm guessing it had to be made because of the high tool pressure working with alien metal?
About backing off all the jaws:
Backing off all four for better runout probably has to do with the backlash in the jaw threads. If you back them all off and re-tighten then the backlash is pushing the same direction in all four. Just a guess.
Wow, really amazing stuff! Is it really necessary to zero the machine in X and Y every time? It's always in the same location right?
Thanks John! Probably not but I check it anyway. I am dealing with .002" true position tolerances on some of the milling features on the end of this part. When I have to pay for a expensive piece of material and remake the part,---- well you know what I mean. I just want to be sure. Remember measure twice cut once. It only take a few minutes.
Peter do you still use your machines at your home shop? Would like to see a video there some time again.
Sense the flood in Houston I haven’t been back in my house because the repairs aren’t finished yet. When I get back I will be making some videos in my garage for sure.
Wow, it is easy to forget about that when you are not faced with it personally. I hope it works out for you, it must be stressful. Were any of the machines damaged?
465maltbie no the machines are OK. We got very little water in the garage. Only about 1.5”. The garage must be a little higher elevation than the house.
Tremendous video, you teach in a way that's easy to learn, thanks for continuing to take the time to make them. I would like to ask you about how you checked your part for concentricity by rotating the dial gauge and the part together. I can see why you need to do this as clocking the part true in the 4 jaw doesn't mean it's parallel to the centre line of the spindle just true to the 'centre' of the steady, but for this method to work don't you have to assume that your tail stock is 'spot on' centre (and you have show use before that yours is adjustable) or else aren't you just measuring any error between the tail stock and centre line of the steady?
Rotating the part the way I showed isn't for checking concentricity. It for setting the X and Y Zero on the fixture offset. If there is run out at the end of the parts OD and your indicating that OD. So if you rotate the part with the indicator and remain in the same location on that OD. You will in this way will be eliminating the actual run out of the part and be finding the true center of rotation.
Thanks for the reply, I should have been more observant before asking a dumb question. For some reason I had it in my head that you had the dial gauge mounted on your live centre in the tail stock but, of course, you actually had in in the B axis spindle. Oh well another senior moment! :)
Thanks as always. Hey when spotting do you believe you should spot with an angle so the drill hits the spot hole with the point first? (and not hitting the cone from the spot with the drills edges) So with 118 degree twist drill use a 120 degree spot drill minimum? Thats what Ive read but also heard otherwise. Thanks again.
Do you indicate your tools in the holders? maybe you preset the tools and do it then. thanks
Really complex process . Like really . I see the reasoning behind it . But if you had a worker , i bet you couldn't trust him to do such a meticulous and precise work ( like changing tooling so often , etc. ) . The part turned out nicely so far . Is it a hard material or just generally a pain like some stainless alloys ?
I'm still learning cnc machining. Is inconel really that hard that it wears inserts that quickly. Love the videos
It depends on the type of inconel and its heat treat. Inconel is a age hardening material so it can be heat treated to increase its mechanical properties. It doesn't get real hard like say steel but it gets tougher. This particular kind 718 can be around 120 ksi yield strength all the way to about 160 ksi yield. When you get up in the 150 ksi yield it is considerably harder to machine than say 135 ksi. There is what they call a double heat treating process that improves it's machinability. The rating goes something like this. Low carbon Resulferized steels have a 100% rating. The 700 series inconels fall into an area of 9-12% rating. That may give you some idea.
hi, what kind of values you should use with 12mm gun drill (part is spinning) with aisi 318? need to go about 300mm deep...
I am assuming you have the correct coolant pressure and volume. In that material my starting parameters would probably be 150 sfm at a feed of .0005" per revolution. My values are in inches you will need to convert them to metric. I will say this I have had more difficulty gun drilling 300 series stainless than practically any other material. It tends to erode the lands on the gundrill for some reason. I am drilling with water based coolant. It would be better if you could drill with oil if possible.
yeah, we have correct coolant pressure with water based coolant. at least everything works with 20MnV60(60m/min, 0.04mm/rev(if i remember it correctly)). for aisi we have received values from drill manufactorer like 45m/min, 0.036mm/rev. but not sure if that works, i didnt try those. other worker i guess tried and did not work very well, lasted one drilling. i think i try 30m/min with 0.04mm/rev(or the same with 20MnV60) once i have chance to do that.
simexi I think that feed is to fast. I would go with more like .015 mm per rev.
When doing the 9" deep hole and gun drill holes how do you start your drill cycle? Rotating and feeding all the way or do you start the spindle once inside the pre drilled hole?
With the gun drills I feed in at 50 inches per minute with the spindle stopped. Than turn the spindle and coolant on. Than start the drilling cycle. With the 1.25” drill I just start the spindle and coolant rapid in to just short of the previous holes depth. Than start the drilling cycle. I set the R plane for these cycles at the same level as the entry move.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for the quick response! You've got the best CNC RUclips channel! Keep the videos coming
Hi Peter, very interesting, would it be an ide to have a spinning disk "wiper" in front of camera, seperate from camera mount so not to transfer vibrations.
The Oleophobic coating on this window to repel the water/oil was old. In the next video (I haven't posted it yet)I replaced the glass window. It now does better. There is a limited life to the coating under the coolant. These windows are expensive and I'm trying to stretch out there use as much as possible. The thing about trying to use anything mechanical is the power required in the wet environment and the noise it would make. I want the sound as much as possible. If I was to use air to drive things it would require a lot of pressure and volume. This again would make a lot of noise. The air knife on the camera case only requires about 20 psi to function and is virtually silent.
Hi Peter, Not to step further in it, But what if you had a coolant driven motor for the "spinner" I suppose you have acces to high pressure coolant, and this "spinner" might work with Rainex and that would might also extend the life of camera "windows"
At first really impressive work.
Just one question.
Why you’re measuring with an into and not with a 3 point inside micrometer?
First of all thank you. I use a .0001 dial bore gauge to measure the bore because, two reasons. 1: A dial bore gauge set to a stack of properly ringed together gage blocks standard has more accuracy and resolution than a 3 point mic. 2: if the bore isn’t round or has a taper you can see that on the dial. A 3 point mic won’t show that. Or at least not as accurately.
question: 9:41
if your position screen shows the tool like that (exactly you're calling) but it's cutting exactly the opposite does it mean anything?/ is something off/
The Mazatrol my machine has is older the tools icon it shows on the position display is depiction of the tool type. It doesn't have anything to do with how the tool is being used or its orientation.
That steady rest is quite the cool piece in how its designed. Really neat.
Is the other hydraulic lines for it to lock it in place after its clamped?
At least one was for air to keep coolant out, if that helps.
It doesn’t lock. It just holds with the hydraulic pressure. There are other lines that connect to the steady rest. There is a constant air pressure inside to help prevent coolant ingress. Also there a Oiler that feeds oil to the roller bearings and pivot points.
Did you install that chuck on that machine or it CES standard of not may I know what company/brand chuck is that and where I can get it. Thank you
It’s a Bison oil field manual 4-jaw chuck. I took out the draw tube. Then bolted this chuck on the A11 spindle.
You're amazing man
Machine shops with CNC really ought to invest in tool presetter to get lengths and offsets of each tool.
Iwas using such a thing about30 years ago. Makes for easy set up.
Some people forget to alter the offsets and make amazing crashes...
The only reason anyone crashes a machine is not paying attention to their distance to display. When you run a unproven program or tool you should pay attention to what you are doing. this is nothing but a lazy machine operator/machinist.
There are plenty of reasons people crash machines beyond being lazy. I agree a majority could be avoided by paying attention but sometimes when facing on a horizonta lor turning on a vertical lathe a part , a tool could fail and eject the part. It happens so fast that even with your hands on the dials, you won't catch it in time before it goes boom . These instances may not be a machine on machine crash but they can often kick your turret or spindle out of alignment.
So this is the real part huh?
How come you need to use this steady rest setup? I don't recall you doing anything like that on the practice part.
In that video I didn’t show the machining of the end of the part. That video starts where this ends. So I had already removed the chuck in the steady rest.
why the chuck on the end of the rod sticking out of the steady rest?
My steady rest wont close down to the diameter of this part. So I mounted a heavy walled steel tube on the back of this 4-Jaw chuck that rides in the stead's jaws than I can clamp to a smaller diameter in the chuck. This also has the advantage that with the chuck in front of the roller jaws it keep chips from getting under the rollers.
smart
Doesnt the coolant microfracture the inserts?
The coolant plays a role. If your doing a intermittent cut where the insert gets hot than it leaves the cut hot and the cold coolant hits it. It cools to quick after time this situation can cause fractures in the inserts edge. Witch eventually causes the edge to fail.
@@EdgePrecision yes it doent seem to be a problem in a drill with high pressure coolant holes but on shell mills oppsy poosy . I repaired lots of huge cnc machines that were custom built. I had to figure out why the inserts kept failing . It was partly the insert supply. Company intentionally giving us rejected inserts to increase sales. During this I found this odd blue mist oil that worked like a miracle but I cant renember the name of it. All that was needed was flush coolant on all milling operations.
I wonder if PCD inserts would help.
Does that Mazak have a Superflow on it?
This machine has high pressure coolant (1,500 psi). But it doesn’t have Mazaks variable volume high pressure coolant system.
Those inserts generally work on harder materials. This material is more tough than hard.
can I have machine like yours for Christmas?????
Awesome stuff. You need a windshield wiper for your camera. ;)
Imagine the bean counter who had to sign off on a part like this; I'm not callous enough to ask but I can take a guess at how much I'd charge for the labour alone.
Oooh yes so fascinating to see the Inconel get machined. I've always heard horror stories about inconel tool life, didn't *quite* realize how bad it actually was! What is your instagram handle, by the way? would love to follow you there as well. Great video, thank you for the education!
My Instagram name is Peter L Stanton.
Pretty surprising you haven't found any better inserts out there for this material.
bensbenz
There is, but its all about surface finishes at his level.
I don’t really have the time or want to risk expensive material testing many different insert materials. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. For instance ceramic will do the job faster but the inserts are much more expensive. Witch in itself wouldn’t be a problem but the heat and the stress they would put into the part would cause problems. So you see there are always tradeoffs.
You don't need to be specific, are these parts more than $15k each just to machine?
Did you program this with Esprit or just write some conversational stuff in mazatrol?
I used Esprit. I don’t do anything with Mazatrol.
你前面那个卡盘 不能装软爪吧？
Your mazak looks just like our Okuma.
Index every time?? Damn!!
Jeez...That's a lot of carbide! Do you regring your drills afte? Were I live the machine shops mostly use manual machines for servicing agricultural equipment, and
usually if an edge get's dull they touch them up on a diamond wheel to avoid using another edge (no matter if they are coated, uncoated or whatever) but for turning to a close tolerance on such tough materials this would be a nightmare! Maybe you could stack a few used ones and get a lead chipbreaker ground into them.
Peter, thanks for sharing, always enjoy watching you videos! I have a question though, after you chucked up the part in the 4 jaw and indicated the part in by the 4 jaw, How did you know that the center in the end of the part that the tailstock went into was running true? Was it center drilled in that setup and not shown? My thought is that if that center drill hole runs out a little the tailstock could influence the part to run on center during the turning operation but after you release the tailstock the part goes back off center, and you end up with a warped part. May be I'm just over thinking this... thanks for sharing
I didn't show it in the video but I had previously prepared all the blanks with the centers that ran true to the other end.
👍👍👍
very interesting.Not enough so to justfy all the commercials
Sorry I don't totally control those adds. If you watch a lot of RUclips you might consider paying $12.00 a month for premium. Than you see no adds. For me it's worth it.
He is a zen master CNC machinist
This guy's forgotten more then I'll ever learn. * pro tip* watch the videos on 1.25X's speed. Keeps things interesting.
Nice
我的四爪卡盘跟你前面那个一样400mm的
That damn Inky metal is hateful. Ever tried freezing the stock with nitrogen and using cbn?
"I need 1-2 thousanths tolerance on an inconel C-276 part." Umm.....That's typically a wrought alloy for welded assemblies. Use a material that's machining friendly please?
Doh! Windows 2000 on brain machine!
what is your Instagram channel name ?
Peter L Stanton.
You watch this and its like, yeah I do that with a special reamer that I ground. You know like, I am making this sandwich with these Tomatoes that I genetically engineered... like custom grinding a reamer is what you do while chatting on the phone. No biggy.
Awful nice work there Peter. enjoyed.
Thanks Randy.
Inconel is a fucking nightmare if you run production.
Whats your instagram name peter?
My Instagram is Peter L Stanton.
And how much $ for that material? Expensive and nerve wracking!🤮
The customer supplied this material so I can’t give you a exact answer. But this type of inconel costs around $20.00 a pound. So if the stock was (I can’t remember the exact dimensions) say four inches in diameter by twenty inches long. That would be roughly $1,500.00.
@@EdgePrecision speechless...exceptional craftsmanship!