I’m about 250 pages in….and I kid you not, already had made comparisons to sad boi evil rich dad fanfiction tropes 😂. I’m not hating it, but I’m also scratching my head as to why everyone is obsessed with this book?
The second book was great! But yes, I stand by my review of the first. I have great respect for the author, but I will not lie by saying this first book was great. It was a rough start.
I didn’t love this one because I felt it needed an editor and was overwritten, not so much because it was Dune-ish. I want to give it another shot. I’ve heard the later books branch off into their own thing. For me I’m not sure that will correct my issues with the writing of the sequels, but it may for you. I do really like Christopher and his channel. I hope I can get into this series.
I’m in the same boat as you about the series lol I hear book 2 is one of the greatest sci-of of all time. I just can’t talk myself into reading it until I finish my Book of the New Sun and Dune journey. Thanks for the comment and support! :)
So people are allowed to dislike what they want. That’s just fine but the “Ruocchio copying other stories” line has gotten pretty old for me. When people make this argument they tend to emphasize worldbuilding elements (shields, empires, lightsabers, etc) But you can apply that a LOT of science fiction. (Both Star Wars and Star Trek have laser space battles, and light speed and space federations. They’re still VERY different stories) And the same goes for BOTNS. Empire of Silence is not my favorite in this series but other than some sci-fi tropes Ruocchio is telling his own story here about a space nobleman who’s shipwrecked becomes a gladiator and eventually ends up trying to be a peacemaker in an alien war. Like what you want but I think Ruocchio borrows less than people think.
Thanks for watching! With respect, I think you’re wrong. Ruocchio specifically says in interviews that he WANTS you thinking about his other stories. He is taking more than tropes and worldbuilding elements (as shown in the video). He is taking entire quotes and fitting them to his story. Now, I do agree that he is not “copying other stories.” My argument is that he makes you think SO much about other stories, that it makes it difficult to appreciate his writing for what it is. That combined with the fact that Empire is Silence is more of a prequel that sets up and gives background to an Epic Space opera vs being an epic itself makes this book a worse than average read. I have mad respect to Ruocchio as a sci-fi/fantasy enthusiast, and even as an author. His prose is beautiful. But his first book is a less than average read.
I haven't read Shadow of the Torturer but I am really struggling though Empire of Silence. I feel like I'm reading the prequel to a series instead of the first entry, if that makes sense. It's a lot of build-up with several scenes that leave me wondering why it needed to be included.
100% My issue. I actually just did a reread of this (video review will come out in July) and this is the crux of the book. It is not telling a story, it’s background info. Sanderson spreads this background info over the course of his stormlight novels as flashbacks from different characters, and that would have been all the difference.
I think I agree with most everything here. People saying it felt like a prequel rather than the start of a story aren't wrong in a sense. I felt like I was reading scifi Kingkiller Chronicles, which also left me mixed by the end even if I knew I enjoyed it overall. Empire of Silence is serviceable, but the rest of the series though ? Oh my god... I've never been so glad I continued a series after a middling book one. This series is mindblowingly good and I blasted through the next 3 in two weeks. Honestly, if this ever gets an adaptation, they need to find a way to make most of book 1 flashbacks while they start with book 2. Or massively reduce book 1, there's just not enough in that one and it feels like it ends when it's finally starting. However, what I think it unfair is to dismiss this book and this series as just a Dune derivative. Sure, it has more of less the same premise, but even in book one it takes branchings that have nothing to do with how Dune plays out. Later it has concepts close to Dune Messiah, but also Three-Body Problem,, and manga readers would also have recognised the Berserk inspirations there. Sun Eater takes inspirations from a lot of series and melds them into its own identity. It's definitely not the type of series you can know if it's "for you" after volume one, that's for sure. Based on my experience with Empire of Silence, Sun Eater was not for me. But people who loved the series told me to carry on if the ending of the book piqued my interest because the rest of the series branches from there and the first three quarters are just setup. Again, I'm glad I stuck with it. This series is brilliant.
Love this comment. Thanks for sharing! As far as the comparisons to Dune being unfair, that doesn’t even seem to be his biggest inspiration. Book of the new sun references are WILD. But my argument is not that he is paying homage to these great works that came before him. It’s that I was constantly thrown out of Ruocchios story because he kept making me think of Dune or Book of the New Sun, rather than think about the book he was writing. I have since read book 2 and agree that it is 10000000x better. It is actually having a conversation, and thinking about book of the new sun and dune actually elevates the story of howling dark. But not for Empire of Silence. Thanks for watching and the support! :)
@@NICKREADSFANTASY I'm glad you continued ! This all thing really threw me for a loop from the Sun Eater non-enjoyers haha Because by that logic The Eye of the World is a 2/5 book for being Fellowship of the Ring under a new coat of paint. But we all know how that turned out. So, I get the criticism, but I also think it's unfair to stay at that level of criticism because it prevents people from seeing what this story is actually doing differently and how a completely new thing can sprout from those differences.
@@arenkai I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think my review is fair, because all though both Ruocchio and Jordan did similar things, their execution of it differed vastly. My argument is that Eye of the World didn’t have me constantly thinking about Lotr, where as Empire of Silence never let me stop thinking about Ruocchios plethoras of inspiration. I was able to enjoy Eye of the World for what it was, but Empire of Silence had me thinking about and comparing to other stories (which Ruocchios states was his intention, and I think he was playing with fire.). We don’t have to agree on this, I just want to be clear in my stance that being similar is not bad. I like lots of books that are similar, inspired, or even imitations of other books. What I am saying is that Ruocchios execution of this was not good in Empire of Silence, and is a below average read.
Could not get into it. Started it and couldn’t finish it. Maybe I will give it another go after I finish oathbringer of storm light series but there are a lot of other books I want to read so idk when I will fit it in. Hard sci fi is my favorite genre too. Also a lot of people are saying this book is similar to the way of the wind and I did not like that book at all. 🤷♂️
Always nice to know you’re not the only one. I would definitely read stormlight before this book. Also Book of the New Sun, Dune, and a Canticle for Liebowitz.
We get perspectives of people telling their story in quite a few books though? Including unreliable ones. The pariah is one that comes t p mind ( an amazing adventure by the way), lemony snickets a series of unfortunate events, and i cant think of another one right now but along with empire of silence and book of the new sun, thats 4 series that start off with " Hey guys, you might want to read this and i wouldnt blame you! Its hella dark." Personally i think its great for setting up the tone of the book and i just keep trying to figure out how we're going to get there!
You’re not wrong that it’s a trope. And if that was the extent, I wouldn’t have made an entire video about the callbacks/homages. But he goes further than using popular tropes. He lifts entire paragraphs, plots, and world-building elements. I’m not even saying this is wrong. Some of my favorite books of all time are knock offs of other stories, or have call back or homages to the stories they love. All of this is fine. The issue is that his call backs made it hard for me to appreciate his story, but instead, made me think of other great works. And since he is making me think of the GOATs while reading his, it makes his seem less. It’s like a cover band trying to sing Dream on. They can do a great job, but the comparison is still there. Also, my biggest issue with the book is that it’s one large prologue and not a story in itself. Or, at least not a great one. It lacks a purpose other than set up. He is giving the background for the story he wants to tell, not telling the story itself. Thanks for watching! I’m grateful for every subscriber!
I’m reading this now and having a lot of difficulty with it, I just find it very boring. Honestly considering skipping it and moving to book 2 and just reading a summary of the first book.
I appreciate your honest review. It seems like Booktube can create its own zeitgeist around a book or author and ignore obvious critical perspectives or flaws in writing or works arguably in the name of creating content or accumulating new subscribers. Authors grow and one can be critical of a work or author and still celebrate their accomplishment.
I honestly think it has more to do with respect for and likability for the author as a person. Ruocchio is a sci-fi fantasy expert and really likable guy. He is also a fellow booktuber. These all, in my opinion, alter our perception of the book. Thanks for the comment! Happy to have you on the channel!
That's really interesting, didn't realise he was so close to the review scene. Looking forward to listening to your views on the series I love. Hope you get a chance to read Malazan, Red Son, Expanse etc.
@@NICKREADSFANTASYI read Empire of Silence for exactly that reason. Saw interviews with Ruocchio and he seems like an awesome guy. I did not like this book. I will continue reading though.
They aren't wrong, Sun Eater as a whole is one of the best scifi series of all time. Empire of Silence just isn't that good of a start for it, which is a shame because it puts off people (myself included at first) and makes them drop it before it gets to the good parts.
Found the first book to be 3.5 stars when i read it: that's without being familiar with any of the inspos beyond the new Dune movie and Star wars so i might reconsider now that I've gone and read Dune, BotNS and Hyperion (all 3 of the biggest inspos as one who's caught up imo, Hyperion being the biggest of all of course: lore and thematically overlap most there). Tho i could see me appreciating it more cuz honestly Sun Eater made me read them to see the inspos and in that manner it might be the best gateway to Sci Fi classics cuz i know lots of people who did that too. Anyways I ended up loving both BotNS and Hyperion and both are top 2 sci-fi works for me (BotNS is probably top 1 speculative fiction work ever tbh) and Sun Eater is currently 3 for sci-fi, managed to only topple dune. Depending on how good the last book is, it can go higher but BotNS is definitely cemented and I can't see anything ever topping that tbh. Can't wait for your follow up videos about this cuz I'm sure highlighting the conversation implementation with Howling Dark will help get your point across better too.
I had to DNF this about 300 pages in. I have many subjective reasons for not liking this. I found it too grim, I felt like I was drowning in minutiae, I didn't connect with the characters- but at the end of the day was my dislike of the character Hadrian. His self serving superiority got cemented in my head as Holden Caulfield from Catcher in the Rye, and once that Hadrian Caulfield hybrid cemented in my head, I couldn't stop giggling and had to stop before he told me that the galaxy was full of phonies.
I haven't read this book/series, so I have no personal view on it. But I had to say I appreciate that you are one of the few Booktubers who 1) isn't afraid to say he didn't like a particular book and 2) knows the difference between SUBJECTIVE ("I didn't like this book. Here are the reasons.") and OBJECTIVE ("This book is poorly written and/or has problems. Here are the reasons.") It's refreshing to see someone who can say they can appreciate some aspects of a book and what the author was trying to do, while also explaining what didn't work. Not just didn't work for them personally, but some solid, objective things about it. Also, you don't get personal about the author. You can like a book and admit it's not well written. You can acknowledge a book is well written, but you didn't like it for whatever reason. You can personally dislike an author's views about _______, but still enjoy their books. You can enjoy an author's books but disagree with them about _______. Or even just not like them on a personal level. (As much as we can "like" / "dislike" people we don't even know.) Now I'm the one rambling. But people get all these things mixed up when talking about books. It drives me nuts. Please keep doing what you do!
Thank you for the kind words Yesica! I am so happy someone appreciates my objective vs subjective views on a book or a writer. I try to make it clear as much as possible, but I think it sometimes goes over heads lol Also, ya, it was hard for me to give an honest review about this book because he is such a popular author (and seems to be a generally good guy). But my experience with this book was so different than others who had read it, I felt like someone considering reading this would benefit from my POV. Thank you for your continued support!
I agree with most of your criticism. I see a lot of references to other books... even the warhammer 40k lore. Having said that, second book gets better, and third finally makes it all worth it.
Thank you for this comment! I feel like people can enjoy a series without enjoying every book, and acknowledging faults where they exist. Going into this series with empire of silence expecting “the greatest modern space fantasy” was a bad expectation. I’m not saying the next few books aren’t amazing, I’m saying there were serious flaws that made it difficult for me to enjoy in Empire is Silence. P.s. I will be making videos on my empire of silence re-read and opinion of Howling Dark later this year. Things have just been crazy with my move and new job and having a baby lol Thanks for the comment and support! Every subscriber and interaction helps this small channel grow :)
Thanks for this. I'm 5 chapters in and specifically found your video because I googled "Empire of Silence Dune fanfic?" I agree he's a terrific writer, but it hews far too close to its inspiration for me. It's distracting.
Glad there are others that feel the same! I re-read Empire of Silence before reading Howling Dark because so many people thought I was being dramatic. I will be making videos about my re-read/howling dark eventually, just don’t know when lol life has been requiring all my time recently.
Nick did you read Assassin ‘s Apprentice? I feel like I am the only person on book tube that thinks Hadrian is like Fitz Farseer? I did not think the author read The Realm of the Elderlings either I am just wondering if I am alone in that thought? There are homages to Hyperion, Ender ‘s Game & Foundation too. I agree, I think this book took off two-thirds of the way through and I do plan to read Howling Dark.
After making this video I have delved more into the author. I was for sure unfair in this review, but I’m leaving it up because it was my initial reaction to a book without any background information on the author. After learning more, I respect the hell out of Rucchio and will continue with the series (maybe next January on the one year anniversary of me reading his first book). I don’t know if there is another author I have been as impressed with as him. As far as him being Fitz, I have only read the first book, assassins apprentice, and it was after I read Empire of Silence. I didn’t see the similarities without looking too hard though. I would love to hear what about them makes you think they are alike. I’ve heard of the homages to these other works as well! I will probably read foundation (currently waiting for it to become available on Libby) and Enders Game before continuing with howling dark.
@@NICKREADSFANTASY you may have to read the rest of the Farseer trilogy or at least Royal Assassin ( which is the best of the three). The sameness I see is this woe as me whining and always getting into messes they could avoid. I am hoping Hadrian will get emotionally stronger in Howling Dark. They both are royal with superior genetics or powers and both are sad sorry lots.
Christopher Ruocchio is an amazing writer and a cool guy in general. The books only get better in the series. The first book was written while he was in college and he hadn’t even read the Gene Wolfe novels until after the first book was written.
It's one thing to borrow worldbuilding elements like shields and such, I don't mind that at all. But every other chapter I felt like, "I have read this entire scene before." It's not just worldbuilding or plot framing elements that are borrowed, it felt like I was straight up reading scenes from books I've already read. Honestly though, that's not my biggest criticism. I found the writing to be sub-par. Extremely over-written, tons of unnecessary chapters and scenes and descriptions. He sure does love the word "cloying."
The way Hadrian describes his emotions, his interactions and his relationships also gave it a serious YA feel to me. He's a teenager when the book begins, but he's writing centuries later as an extremely old man. It feels very unbelievable.
My issue was that I wasn’t able to appreciate the story for what it was, because the book made me think about other stories instead of thinking about the story I was reading, or the thought experiments it was trying to trigger. I actually was ok with the prose and think Ruocchio is a talented writer, even if this book didn’t do it for me. Thanks for your thoughts and input though! Love having discussions! Hope your enjoying the channel :)
I hear that a ton! However, the reason I have decided I will be reading the second book is because I have been watching some of the authors RUclips videos and stumbled over a few podcasts with him on it and I really like the author as a person. He is very knowledgeable about the fantasy and sci-fi genre and publishing as a whole. Seems to be an all around good guy, and I want to support him if I can. If I end up reading and enjoying the 2nd book i will let y’all know! I hope I do! Thanks for the comment and supporting the channel!
I hear that consistently :) as far as the call backs, I understand what they are, I just wasn’t able to appreciate them. I thought they distracted me from the story being told than adding value to the story itself.
Ah, fan fiction is something else. The book is in conversation with Dune, particularly what he thinks Dune gets wrong. Hadrian doesn’t have a perfect memory and the Book of the New Sun similarities is actually a conincidence, Wolfe’s style is not entirely new, both were influenced by classic works (you can read Roman authors with similar styles). Ruocchio hadn’t read New Sun when this book was written, so it’s not an homage, he read it before book 2 came out. Maybe it has something to do with Wolfe and Ruocchio both having Tolkien as their favorite author and both being Catholic among many other things.
Ruocchio mentions in several interviews that his original draft to his publisher was before he read book the new sun and the final draft was after reading book at the new sun. He also mentions that these drafts are completely different from each other and anyone who has read the two can see that he did write several homages to book the new sun, including almost direct quotes. Also, while the later series might be a conversation with Dune, I have come to realize that my biggest issue with this first book is that it is all just worldbuilding and scene setting to the story he wants to tell. This book is an epic prequel to the real story that doesn’t do itself justice as a story in itself.
I am reading Empire of Silence right now and I am constantly tripping over lines that are almost directly lifted from Shadow of the Torturer. What @Liam says that Ruocchio has not read the Shadow of the Torturer while writing this book, I do not believe it. No way. And the problem is that readers who are not familiar with Wolfe start thinking that these lines come directly from Ruocchio and that is misleading. Easter egg is not an excuse for that.
Ruocchio and I have a love hate relationship. I think Ruocchio as a person and outlook on the science fiction and fantasy genre are incredible, and I would love to just sit down and discuss the genre with him sometime. He has so much knowledge in him it’s incredible. This first book however, it was not my favorite. I agree with you for the most part like you heard in my video. After listening Rucchio explain what he was trying to do with the book, I give him more grace, but I personally was not able to appreciate what he was trying to do. All this book did was make me want to read dune and BoTNS, instead of enjoy empire of silence for what it was. Inspiration vs imitation is a fine line, and it was crossed in my opinion. As far as the timeline for Ruocchio and Wolfe goes, listening to Ruocchio it seems like he finished the book before reading wolfe, but edited (to the point the book was double the length of the original) after reading wolfe. So quotes and things are probably direct lifts, or “Easter eggs”, while the first person narriative probably being coincidence. I plan to do an update video on my opinion of Ruocchio and Suneater, where essentially I stand by my review of the first book, but also acknowledging that I love what he is trying to do in the last 1/4 of the book, and probably am going to continue with the series (at least the second book) out of liking of the author as a person, not for love of the first book. If my opinion of his writing after book two doesn’t change, my journey with Suneater will end there. If it becomes it’s own thing, then I will let the world know that too lol Thank you for watching and commenting! I’m glad to have you as part of the channel :) I haven’t posted for a minute due to priorities that come before BookTube videos, but plan to keep posting soon. Glad to have you!
@@NICKREADSFANTASY Yes, I am quite enjoying Ruocchio's novel, but every time I find myself immersed, which is a good sign, I stumble on these "Easter egg" lines. I understand if Ruocchio wants to be in conversation with Herbert's or Wolfe's work, but it doesn't have to be on the textual level of rewriting their paragraphs. A book can also be in conversation on a plot level, and that seemed to be what Ruocchio was going for as well. But compare this with Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series, which is also "in conversation" with Wolfe's work, but you wouldn't see her reusing prose flourishes like that. I do see that Ruocchio is a good writer, and everything that he comes up with himself is also good.
Not yet! But I’m going to plug myself and tell you to watch my most anticipated reads of 2024 video lol Also… I am rereading Empire of Silence now, and I have so much to say that I’m going to make an entire video to discuss my thoughts. But essentially, my largest issue with this re-read is that it feels like a prologue/worldbuilding for the story he wants to tell, instead of actually being a story in itself. Anywho, thanks for watching and supporting the channel! It’s small but is growing.
There is something here flirting a little too close with the source of the inspiration. Just finished dune messiah and the way the throne room is described as a prisoner enters ( so that the person sitting on the throne looks larger than possible due to optical illusion from the slant of the walls ) is exactly how Hardiran describes entering his fathers throne room. Really stuck out to me because of how specific the description is. I get that it’s paying homage and I’ll read both but it’s cutting a little close. Edit: Dune Messiah: trusses and supporting beams behind these walls in the far away domed ceiling must surpass anything ever before attempted. Everything spoke of engineering genius. Without seeming to do so, the hall grew smaller at its far end, refusing to dwarf, **** on his throne, centered on a dais. an untrained awareness, shocked by surrounding proportions, would see him at first as many times larger than his actual size.” Empire of Silence: “the throne room exceeded that limit, being at once too tall, too wide, and too long…though human senses could not detect it the distance between the door, and the ceiling suddenly subtly shrank between the doors, and the dais at the far end, so that the supplicant was deceived into perceiving the archon as larger than any human ought to be .” If you add the shields and the resource planet and similar descriptions it does have me question where is the line between paying homage to something and just coping it. Not saying Empire of Silence is plagiarism and I’m very much going to read it, just something to think about 🤔 Also I think Hadrian stops ten paces from the throne and so does the prisoner in this passage of Dune. Just very much lifted
You articulated this wonderfully!!! At the end of the day, I think he had the best intentions and it just went a little overboard. My hope is the series gets more and more original as he goes on, and that this was just a rough start. Based off an interview or two I watched of the author, I know he is trying to have a conversation with Dune, but I think it went just a little too far in the first book.
Thanks for watching! Personally, I listen to recommendations from those who I typically agree with and disagree with. The reason behind what the believe is the valuable part, not what they believe. I hope there are other reviews on my channel you find of value. Would be curious to know which parts of the review you disagree with? Or if you are just going based off my Star review and overall enjoyability. Never forget the words of Napoleon. “The people to fear are not those who disagree with you, but those who disagree with you and are too cowardly to let you know.” Again, thank you for watching! Every subscriber helps the channel grow!
this is the only review of this book that mentions the plagiarisms, every other review seems to heap loads and loads of praise. some of the lines and concepts are lifted completely from other books! it's stunning how people are giving this book a pass on that. also, to be honest, it's not very well written. it seems stiff and a little amateurish
I don’t think it’s plagiarism. He created his own story, and cites his sources in interviews, but by consistently using/mimicking other people’s work, his book makes me think more about the works that influenced his story than the story he is trying to tell. Also, I gave this book a re-read before reading book 2, Howling Dark, and I think the biggest issue is that it’s not telling the story of Hadrian, but is instead just a prologue to the story he Ruocchio wanted to tell. I will put up a full 2nd read through review eventually, but life has been busy lol Thanks for watching and commenting! Hope you enjoyed!
“Fear is the mind killer” and “rage is blindness” are nowhere similar ??? Right? I feel many of your “similarities” are stretching. You’re just looking to be hyperbolic. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. Keep up the videos.
I think the similarities are compounding. So if it was just this one saying, then no, the inspiration would not be as apparent. However, since making this video I have watched like a dozen interviews with Ruocchio where he discusses these similarities and how he did it on purpose, wanting us to think of dune and the contrast between the two. He was going for a conversation with Herbert, and while I understand what he was trying to do, I was not able to appreciate it in the first read through. I just kept thinking about dune and wasn’t able to enjoy the story for what it was. Thanks for the comment and support! This is a place for discussions of books even if you disagree with me :) we are happy to have you here as part of the channel!
If you can’t read a book inspired by other books you can’t read anything unless you only read from oldest to newest. Have you read all of Farland, Hambly, and Jordan before Sanderson? How about Robert E. Howard and the other influences for Jordan and the others? By this logic you can’t read Robin Hobb unless you’ve read Fritz Leiber. Writing is a conversation, it helps to be informed but I think you’re a little misinformed here.
For me, it was less about it being inspired by something that came before, and more of the fact that I couldn’t focus on the story because the constant references and call backs to other books kept making me think of other books instead of being able to appreciate the story Rucchio was trying to tell. In fact, I am a lover of tropes, and enjoy seeing trope variation amongst authors. The Winter King, for example, is a retelling of Arthur’s story, but done in a way that enabled me to focus and appreciate his story for what it was, rather than making me think of all the aurthurian stories I had read in the past. Tress is another wonderful example of a book inspired by princess bride, and yet once past the beginning, let me appreciate the story for what it was. As far as not reading the new until the old, it’s more about the fact that I wasn’t able to appreciate this story because it made me keep thinking of a series I had already started and loved, and was eager to get back to. It was doing Empire of Silence a disservice by not finishing that series first. Also, I objectively believe Dune and The Book of the New Sun are better than Empire of Silence, and have a higher priority to finish those before continuing with this journey. Hope that clears things up. Thank you so much for watching and supporting the channel! I love discussions like this and is one of the reasons I started my BookTube channel.
do you really think rage is blindness is lifted from fear is the mind killer? you don't think anyone has ever said that before Gene Wolf? I mean have you ever seen star wars lol?
Ruocchio has mentioned the purposeful callbacks (including this one) in interviews with other booktubers. My argument is not that this is a bad thing, but that he did not execute it in a way that kept me rooted in his world. I was unable to appreciate this story for what it was for 3/4 of the book because I kept thinking about other books. Hope that clarifies. Thanks for watching! Hope you’re enjoying the channel.
I tried reading empire of silence, felt bored, started reading three body problem, blew my mind!!! I kind of feel ruocciou knows how dumb bookfans and booktubers are and he saw this as an opportunity to get good reviews by writing rip-off scifi
I don’t believe that. I think he had good intentions and was trying to have fun with his book and writing by paying homage to his favorites, but didn’t stick the landing (for me at least). I really respect the author and his devotion to the genre. Also, I have heard great things about three body problem! Plan to check it out eventually :)
That’s a great question! Ruocchio can write a story where the plot is exciting, characters are consistent and fleshed out, and more importantly, get the story across clearly to his readers. All of which make him in my opinion a skilled author. On top of that, he was able to accomplish these feats while maintaining a consistently beautiful prose. To clarify, I think fan fiction can be good writing. If a fan of Star Wars writes a beautiful and consistent Star Wars movie script, I would like it more than what the latest movies had been. My problem with Ruocchio story is that he used so many elements from Dune, and so many passages from BoTNS, that instead of being able to enjoy his writing, all I could think about was Dune. He made me think of the original over what he was writing. During the last 1/4 of the book, which felt the most original, he made me want to continue the series. It was an excellent question and I hope that clarity’s my opinion! Thanks for watching and welcome to the channel :)
It is a long book, but some of my favorite books of all time are double its length. Length of the book is not a down side to me, but I know it is intimidating for some. Thanks for watching and supporting the channel :)
@@epiphoney Honestly, I might fall into that category lol but I think a also enjoy the simple and tropey stuff as well. I’m currently reading Green Rider, which is full of simple prose, plot armor, and tropes, but I’m thoroughly enjoying it lol I will have a full review up early next year, but I would love to hear a few examples of books you consider overly descriptive.
I have been told this by many 😂😂😂 I hope I enjoy Book 2 more now that I have finished the original Dune trilogy and Book of the New Sun. Maybe I can appreciate it for the conversation it is having with its inspirations.
I’m about 250 pages in….and I kid you not, already had made comparisons to sad boi evil rich dad fanfiction tropes 😂.
I’m not hating it, but I’m also scratching my head as to why everyone is obsessed with this book?
I have so much to say about this lol im planning two videos on just this topic.
@@NICKREADSFANTASY Here for that! Can’t wait!
I just finished the second book and I’m enjoying it enough to continue. But I think your criticisms are totally valid
The second book was great! But yes, I stand by my review of the first. I have great respect for the author, but I will not lie by saying this first book was great. It was a rough start.
@@NICKREADSFANTASY I think you’re absolutely right. The author seems like a super smart and nice guy so I will keep reading and see where it goes
I didn’t love this one because I felt it needed an editor and was overwritten, not so much because it was Dune-ish.
I want to give it another shot. I’ve heard the later books branch off into their own thing. For me I’m not sure that will correct my issues with the writing of the sequels, but it may for you.
I do really like Christopher and his channel. I hope I can get into this series.
I’m in the same boat as you about the series lol I hear book 2 is one of the greatest sci-of of all time. I just can’t talk myself into reading it until I finish my Book of the New Sun and Dune journey.
Thanks for the comment and support! :)
@@NICKREADSFANTASY one of the greatest? Whooo, I feel like you set me up for disappointment. We’re gonna see about that one, Ruocchio.
@@michaelfeeney6108 Matt’s fantasy book review posted that yesterday lol also, tall guy reads and Petrik Leo
@@NICKREADSFANTASY Well. Now I know who to blame!
So people are allowed to dislike what they want. That’s just fine but the “Ruocchio copying other stories” line has gotten pretty old for me.
When people make this argument they tend to emphasize worldbuilding elements (shields, empires, lightsabers, etc) But you can apply that a LOT of science fiction. (Both Star Wars and Star Trek have laser space battles, and light speed and space federations. They’re still VERY different stories) And the same goes for BOTNS.
Empire of Silence is not my favorite in this series but other than some sci-fi tropes Ruocchio is telling his own story here about a space nobleman who’s shipwrecked becomes a gladiator and eventually ends up trying to be a peacemaker in an alien war.
Like what you want but I think Ruocchio borrows less than people think.
Thanks for watching! With respect, I think you’re wrong. Ruocchio specifically says in interviews that he WANTS you thinking about his other stories. He is taking more than tropes and worldbuilding elements (as shown in the video). He is taking entire quotes and fitting them to his story.
Now, I do agree that he is not “copying other stories.” My argument is that he makes you think SO much about other stories, that it makes it difficult to appreciate his writing for what it is. That combined with the fact that Empire is Silence is more of a prequel that sets up and gives background to an Epic Space opera vs being an epic itself makes this book a worse than average read.
I have mad respect to Ruocchio as a sci-fi/fantasy enthusiast, and even as an author. His prose is beautiful. But his first book is a less than average read.
I haven't read Shadow of the Torturer but I am really struggling though Empire of Silence. I feel like I'm reading the prequel to a series instead of the first entry, if that makes sense. It's a lot of build-up with several scenes that leave me wondering why it needed to be included.
100% My issue. I actually just did a reread of this (video review will come out in July) and this is the crux of the book. It is not telling a story, it’s background info. Sanderson spreads this background info over the course of his stormlight novels as flashbacks from different characters, and that would have been all the difference.
I think I agree with most everything here.
People saying it felt like a prequel rather than the start of a story aren't wrong in a sense. I felt like I was reading scifi Kingkiller Chronicles, which also left me mixed by the end even if I knew I enjoyed it overall.
Empire of Silence is serviceable, but the rest of the series though ? Oh my god... I've never been so glad I continued a series after a middling book one.
This series is mindblowingly good and I blasted through the next 3 in two weeks.
Honestly, if this ever gets an adaptation, they need to find a way to make most of book 1 flashbacks while they start with book 2. Or massively reduce book 1, there's just not enough in that one and it feels like it ends when it's finally starting.
However, what I think it unfair is to dismiss this book and this series as just a Dune derivative. Sure, it has more of less the same premise, but even in book one it takes branchings that have nothing to do with how Dune plays out.
Later it has concepts close to Dune Messiah, but also Three-Body Problem,, and manga readers would also have recognised the Berserk inspirations there.
Sun Eater takes inspirations from a lot of series and melds them into its own identity.
It's definitely not the type of series you can know if it's "for you" after volume one, that's for sure.
Based on my experience with Empire of Silence, Sun Eater was not for me. But people who loved the series told me to carry on if the ending of the book piqued my interest because the rest of the series branches from there and the first three quarters are just setup.
Again, I'm glad I stuck with it. This series is brilliant.
Love this comment. Thanks for sharing! As far as the comparisons to Dune being unfair, that doesn’t even seem to be his biggest inspiration. Book of the new sun references are WILD. But my argument is not that he is paying homage to these great works that came before him. It’s that I was constantly thrown out of Ruocchios story because he kept making me think of Dune or Book of the New Sun, rather than think about the book he was writing. I have since read book 2 and agree that it is 10000000x better. It is actually having a conversation, and thinking about book of the new sun and dune actually elevates the story of howling dark. But not for Empire of Silence.
Thanks for watching and the support! :)
@@NICKREADSFANTASY I'm glad you continued !
This all thing really threw me for a loop from the Sun Eater non-enjoyers haha
Because by that logic The Eye of the World is a 2/5 book for being Fellowship of the Ring under a new coat of paint. But we all know how that turned out.
So, I get the criticism, but I also think it's unfair to stay at that level of criticism because it prevents people from seeing what this story is actually doing differently and how a completely new thing can sprout from those differences.
@@arenkai I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think my review is fair, because all though both Ruocchio and Jordan did similar things, their execution of it differed vastly.
My argument is that Eye of the World didn’t have me constantly thinking about Lotr, where as Empire of Silence never let me stop thinking about Ruocchios plethoras of inspiration. I was able to enjoy Eye of the World for what it was, but Empire of Silence had me thinking about and comparing to other stories (which Ruocchios states was his intention, and I think he was playing with fire.).
We don’t have to agree on this, I just want to be clear in my stance that being similar is not bad. I like lots of books that are similar, inspired, or even imitations of other books. What I am saying is that Ruocchios execution of this was not good in Empire of Silence, and is a below average read.
Could not get into it. Started it and couldn’t finish it. Maybe I will give it another go after I finish oathbringer of storm light series but there are a lot of other books I want to read so idk when I will fit it in. Hard sci fi is my favorite genre too. Also a lot of people are saying this book is similar to the way of the wind and I did not like that book at all. 🤷♂️
Always nice to know you’re not the only one. I would definitely read stormlight before this book. Also Book of the New Sun, Dune, and a Canticle for Liebowitz.
We get perspectives of people telling their story in quite a few books though? Including unreliable ones.
The pariah is one that comes t p mind ( an amazing adventure by the way), lemony snickets a series of unfortunate events, and i cant think of another one right now but along with empire of silence and book of the new sun, thats 4 series that start off with " Hey guys, you might want to read this and i wouldnt blame you! Its hella dark."
Personally i think its great for setting up the tone of the book and i just keep trying to figure out how we're going to get there!
You’re not wrong that it’s a trope. And if that was the extent, I wouldn’t have made an entire video about the callbacks/homages. But he goes further than using popular tropes. He lifts entire paragraphs, plots, and world-building elements.
I’m not even saying this is wrong. Some of my favorite books of all time are knock offs of other stories, or have call back or homages to the stories they love. All of this is fine. The issue is that his call backs made it hard for me to appreciate his story, but instead, made me think of other great works. And since he is making me think of the GOATs while reading his, it makes his seem less. It’s like a cover band trying to sing Dream on. They can do a great job, but the comparison is still there.
Also, my biggest issue with the book is that it’s one large prologue and not a story in itself. Or, at least not a great one. It lacks a purpose other than set up. He is giving the background for the story he wants to tell, not telling the story itself.
Thanks for watching! I’m grateful for every subscriber!
I’m reading this now and having a lot of difficulty with it, I just find it very boring. Honestly considering skipping it and moving to book 2 and just reading a summary of the first book.
You’re a madman lol I have never even considered skipping a book and continue it the series.
Thanks for the comment! Hope your enjoying the channel :)
I appreciate your honest review. It seems like Booktube can create its own zeitgeist around a book or author and ignore obvious critical perspectives or flaws in writing or works arguably in the name of creating content or accumulating new subscribers. Authors grow and one can be critical of a work or author and still celebrate their accomplishment.
This was a breath of fresh air to hear! Thank you for commenting this!! Made my day
I did not like the book at all. Thought it had no new ideas and every booktuber stating it was one of greatest series of all time really blew my mind.
I honestly think it has more to do with respect for and likability for the author as a person. Ruocchio is a sci-fi fantasy expert and really likable guy. He is also a fellow booktuber. These all, in my opinion, alter our perception of the book.
Thanks for the comment! Happy to have you on the channel!
That's really interesting, didn't realise he was so close to the review scene.
Looking forward to listening to your views on the series I love. Hope you get a chance to read Malazan, Red Son, Expanse etc.
@@NICKREADSFANTASYI read Empire of Silence for exactly that reason. Saw interviews with Ruocchio and he seems like an awesome guy. I did not like this book. I will continue reading though.
They aren't wrong, Sun Eater as a whole is one of the best scifi series of all time.
Empire of Silence just isn't that good of a start for it, which is a shame because it puts off people (myself included at first) and makes them drop it before it gets to the good parts.
Found the first book to be 3.5 stars when i read it: that's without being familiar with any of the inspos beyond the new Dune movie and Star wars so i might reconsider now that I've gone and read Dune, BotNS and Hyperion (all 3 of the biggest inspos as one who's caught up imo, Hyperion being the biggest of all of course: lore and thematically overlap most there). Tho i could see me appreciating it more cuz honestly Sun Eater made me read them to see the inspos and in that manner it might be the best gateway to Sci Fi classics cuz i know lots of people who did that too.
Anyways I ended up loving both BotNS and Hyperion and both are top 2 sci-fi works for me (BotNS is probably top 1 speculative fiction work ever tbh) and Sun Eater is currently 3 for sci-fi, managed to only topple dune. Depending on how good the last book is, it can go higher but BotNS is definitely cemented and I can't see anything ever topping that tbh. Can't wait for your follow up videos about this cuz I'm sure highlighting the conversation implementation with Howling Dark will help get your point across better too.
I read the second book and had a VERY different experience than with the first. I’m going to do a video on it in the next few months.
I had to DNF this about 300 pages in. I have many subjective reasons for not liking this. I found it too grim, I felt like I was drowning in minutiae, I didn't connect with the characters- but at the end of the day was my dislike of the character Hadrian. His self serving superiority got cemented in my head as Holden Caulfield from Catcher in the Rye, and once that Hadrian Caulfield hybrid cemented in my head, I couldn't stop giggling and had to stop before he told me that the galaxy was full of phonies.
😂😂😂 this is the most original reason I have seen someone dnf this book. Thanks for the comment! Every interaction helps the channel grow
I haven't read this book/series, so I have no personal view on it. But I had to say I appreciate that you are one of the few Booktubers who 1) isn't afraid to say he didn't like a particular book and 2) knows the difference between SUBJECTIVE ("I didn't like this book. Here are the reasons.") and OBJECTIVE ("This book is poorly written and/or has problems. Here are the reasons.") It's refreshing to see someone who can say they can appreciate some aspects of a book and what the author was trying to do, while also explaining what didn't work. Not just didn't work for them personally, but some solid, objective things about it. Also, you don't get personal about the author. You can like a book and admit it's not well written. You can acknowledge a book is well written, but you didn't like it for whatever reason. You can personally dislike an author's views about _______, but still enjoy their books. You can enjoy an author's books but disagree with them about _______. Or even just not like them on a personal level. (As much as we can "like" / "dislike" people we don't even know.) Now I'm the one rambling. But people get all these things mixed up when talking about books. It drives me nuts. Please keep doing what you do!
Thank you for the kind words Yesica! I am so happy someone appreciates my objective vs subjective views on a book or a writer. I try to make it clear as much as possible, but I think it sometimes goes over heads lol
Also, ya, it was hard for me to give an honest review about this book because he is such a popular author (and seems to be a generally good guy). But my experience with this book was so different than others who had read it, I felt like someone considering reading this would benefit from my POV.
Thank you for your continued support!
I agree with most of your criticism. I see a lot of references to other books... even the warhammer 40k lore. Having said that, second book gets better, and third finally makes it all worth it.
Thank you for this comment! I feel like people can enjoy a series without enjoying every book, and acknowledging faults where they exist. Going into this series with empire of silence expecting “the greatest modern space fantasy” was a bad expectation. I’m not saying the next few books aren’t amazing, I’m saying there were serious flaws that made it difficult for me to enjoy in Empire is Silence.
P.s. I will be making videos on my empire of silence re-read and opinion of Howling Dark later this year. Things have just been crazy with my move and new job and having a baby lol
Thanks for the comment and support! Every subscriber and interaction helps this small channel grow :)
Thanks for this. I'm 5 chapters in and specifically found your video because I googled "Empire of Silence Dune fanfic?"
I agree he's a terrific writer, but it hews far too close to its inspiration for me. It's distracting.
Glad there are others that feel the same! I re-read Empire of Silence before reading Howling Dark because so many people thought I was being dramatic. I will be making videos about my re-read/howling dark eventually, just don’t know when lol life has been requiring all my time recently.
I gave Empire of Silence 2 stars, also. I don't get the hype at all.
Glad I’m not alone! Thanks for watching :)
Nick did you read Assassin ‘s Apprentice? I feel like I am the only person on book tube that thinks Hadrian is like Fitz Farseer? I did not think the author read The Realm of the Elderlings either I am just wondering if I am alone in that thought?
There are homages to Hyperion, Ender ‘s Game & Foundation too.
I agree, I think this book took off two-thirds of the way through and I do plan to read Howling Dark.
After making this video I have delved more into the author. I was for sure unfair in this review, but I’m leaving it up because it was my initial reaction to a book without any background information on the author.
After learning more, I respect the hell out of Rucchio and will continue with the series (maybe next January on the one year anniversary of me reading his first book). I don’t know if there is another author I have been as impressed with as him.
As far as him being Fitz, I have only read the first book, assassins apprentice, and it was after I read Empire of Silence. I didn’t see the similarities without looking too hard though. I would love to hear what about them makes you think they are alike.
I’ve heard of the homages to these other works as well! I will probably read foundation (currently waiting for it to become available on Libby) and Enders Game before continuing with howling dark.
@@NICKREADSFANTASY you may have to read the rest of the Farseer trilogy or at least Royal Assassin ( which is the best of the three). The sameness I see is this woe as me whining and always getting into messes they could avoid. I am hoping Hadrian will get emotionally stronger in Howling Dark. They both are royal with superior genetics or powers and both are sad sorry lots.
Christopher Ruocchio is an amazing writer and a cool guy in general. The books only get better in the series. The first book was written while he was in college and he hadn’t even read the Gene Wolfe novels until after the first book was written.
That’s what I hear!! Thanks for the comment and support of the channel :)
You don't have to read the book...just google and cherry-pick notable quotes.
It's one thing to borrow worldbuilding elements like shields and such, I don't mind that at all. But every other chapter I felt like, "I have read this entire scene before." It's not just worldbuilding or plot framing elements that are borrowed, it felt like I was straight up reading scenes from books I've already read.
Honestly though, that's not my biggest criticism. I found the writing to be sub-par. Extremely over-written, tons of unnecessary chapters and scenes and descriptions. He sure does love the word "cloying."
The way Hadrian describes his emotions, his interactions and his relationships also gave it a serious YA feel to me. He's a teenager when the book begins, but he's writing centuries later as an extremely old man. It feels very unbelievable.
My issue was that I wasn’t able to appreciate the story for what it was, because the book made me think about other stories instead of thinking about the story I was reading, or the thought experiments it was trying to trigger. I actually was ok with the prose and think Ruocchio is a talented writer, even if this book didn’t do it for me.
Thanks for your thoughts and input though! Love having discussions! Hope your enjoying the channel :)
I would recommend that you read the second book! The first book is definitely the weakest.
I hear that a ton! However, the reason I have decided I will be reading the second book is because I have been watching some of the authors RUclips videos and stumbled over a few podcasts with him on it and I really like the author as a person. He is very knowledgeable about the fantasy and sci-fi genre and publishing as a whole. Seems to be an all around good guy, and I want to support him if I can.
If I end up reading and enjoying the 2nd book i will let y’all know! I hope I do!
Thanks for the comment and supporting the channel!
It’s a debut and improves in the second book and beyond. The similarities are call backs
I hear that consistently :) as far as the call backs, I understand what they are, I just wasn’t able to appreciate them. I thought they distracted me from the story being told than adding value to the story itself.
I saw someone on goodreads point out more than 5 passages that were basically lifted from other works and holy shit 😅
Ah, fan fiction is something else. The book is in conversation with Dune, particularly what he thinks Dune gets wrong. Hadrian doesn’t have a perfect memory and the Book of the New Sun similarities is actually a conincidence, Wolfe’s style is not entirely new, both were influenced by classic works (you can read Roman authors with similar styles). Ruocchio hadn’t read New Sun when this book was written, so it’s not an homage, he read it before book 2 came out. Maybe it has something to do with Wolfe and Ruocchio both having Tolkien as their favorite author and both being Catholic among many other things.
So what does Dune "get wrong"?
Ruocchio mentions in several interviews that his original draft to his publisher was before he read book the new sun and the final draft was after reading book at the new sun. He also mentions that these drafts are completely different from each other and anyone who has read the two can see that he did write several homages to book the new sun, including almost direct quotes.
Also, while the later series might be a conversation with Dune, I have come to realize that my biggest issue with this first book is that it is all just worldbuilding and scene setting to the story he wants to tell. This book is an epic prequel to the real story that doesn’t do itself justice as a story in itself.
I am reading Empire of Silence right now and I am constantly tripping over lines that are almost directly lifted from Shadow of the Torturer. What @Liam says that Ruocchio has not read the Shadow of the Torturer while writing this book, I do not believe it. No way. And the problem is that readers who are not familiar with Wolfe start thinking that these lines come directly from Ruocchio and that is misleading. Easter egg is not an excuse for that.
Ruocchio and I have a love hate relationship. I think Ruocchio as a person and outlook on the science fiction and fantasy genre are incredible, and I would love to just sit down and discuss the genre with him sometime. He has so much knowledge in him it’s incredible. This first book however, it was not my favorite.
I agree with you for the most part like you heard in my video. After listening Rucchio explain what he was trying to do with the book, I give him more grace, but I personally was not able to appreciate what he was trying to do. All this book did was make me want to read dune and BoTNS, instead of enjoy empire of silence for what it was. Inspiration vs imitation is a fine line, and it was crossed in my opinion.
As far as the timeline for Ruocchio and Wolfe goes, listening to Ruocchio it seems like he finished the book before reading wolfe, but edited (to the point the book was double the length of the original) after reading wolfe. So quotes and things are probably direct lifts, or “Easter eggs”, while the first person narriative probably being coincidence.
I plan to do an update video on my opinion of Ruocchio and Suneater, where essentially I stand by my review of the first book, but also acknowledging that I love what he is trying to do in the last 1/4 of the book, and probably am going to continue with the series (at least the second book) out of liking of the author as a person, not for love of the first book. If my opinion of his writing after book two doesn’t change, my journey with Suneater will end there. If it becomes it’s own thing, then I will let the world know that too lol
Thank you for watching and commenting! I’m glad to have you as part of the channel :) I haven’t posted for a minute due to priorities that come before BookTube videos, but plan to keep posting soon.
Glad to have you!
@@NICKREADSFANTASY Yes, I am quite enjoying Ruocchio's novel, but every time I find myself immersed, which is a good sign, I stumble on these "Easter egg" lines. I understand if Ruocchio wants to be in conversation with Herbert's or Wolfe's work, but it doesn't have to be on the textual level of rewriting their paragraphs. A book can also be in conversation on a plot level, and that seemed to be what Ruocchio was going for as well. But compare this with Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series, which is also "in conversation" with Wolfe's work, but you wouldn't see her reusing prose flourishes like that. I do see that Ruocchio is a good writer, and everything that he comes up with himself is also good.
Sooooo did you read any of the other books (Howling Dark etc...)
Not yet! But I’m going to plug myself and tell you to watch my most anticipated reads of 2024 video lol Also… I am rereading Empire of Silence now, and I have so much to say that I’m going to make an entire video to discuss my thoughts. But essentially, my largest issue with this re-read is that it feels like a prologue/worldbuilding for the story he wants to tell, instead of actually being a story in itself. Anywho, thanks for watching and supporting the channel! It’s small but is growing.
There is something here flirting a little too close with the source of the inspiration. Just finished dune messiah and the way the throne room is described as a prisoner enters ( so that the person sitting on the throne looks larger than possible due to optical illusion from the slant of the walls ) is exactly how Hardiran describes entering his fathers throne room. Really stuck out to me because of how specific the description is. I get that it’s paying homage and I’ll read both but it’s cutting a little close.
Edit:
Dune Messiah: trusses and supporting beams behind these walls in the far away domed ceiling must surpass anything ever before attempted. Everything spoke of engineering genius. Without seeming to do so, the hall grew smaller at its far end, refusing to dwarf, **** on his throne, centered on a dais. an untrained awareness, shocked by surrounding proportions, would see him at first as many times larger than his actual size.”
Empire of Silence: “the throne room exceeded that limit, being at once too tall, too wide, and too long…though human senses could not detect it the distance between the door, and the ceiling suddenly subtly shrank between the doors, and the dais at the far end, so that the supplicant was deceived into perceiving the archon as larger than any human ought to be .”
If you add the shields and the resource planet and similar descriptions it does have me question where is the line between paying homage to something and just coping it. Not saying Empire of Silence is plagiarism and I’m very much going to read it, just something to think about 🤔
Also I think Hadrian stops ten paces from the throne and so does the prisoner in this passage of Dune. Just very much lifted
You articulated this wonderfully!!! At the end of the day, I think he had the best intentions and it just went a little overboard. My hope is the series gets more and more original as he goes on, and that this was just a rough start. Based off an interview or two I watched of the author, I know he is trying to have a conversation with Dune, but I think it went just a little too far in the first book.
To each their own but this lets me know that this isn’t the channel for me to look to for recommendations
Thanks for watching! Personally, I listen to recommendations from those who I typically agree with and disagree with. The reason behind what the believe is the valuable part, not what they believe.
I hope there are other reviews on my channel you find of value. Would be curious to know which parts of the review you disagree with? Or if you are just going based off my Star review and overall enjoyability. Never forget the words of Napoleon.
“The people to fear are not those who disagree with you, but those who disagree with you and are too cowardly to let you know.”
Again, thank you for watching! Every subscriber helps the channel grow!
It’s not bad, no, it’s just….ok 🤷♀️
Same!! Thank you for watching :) happy to have you in the channel
this is the only review of this book that mentions the plagiarisms, every other review seems to heap loads and loads of praise. some of the lines and concepts are lifted completely from other books! it's stunning how people are giving this book a pass on that. also, to be honest, it's not very well written. it seems stiff and a little amateurish
I don’t think it’s plagiarism. He created his own story, and cites his sources in interviews, but by consistently using/mimicking other people’s work, his book makes me think more about the works that influenced his story than the story he is trying to tell.
Also, I gave this book a re-read before reading book 2, Howling Dark, and I think the biggest issue is that it’s not telling the story of Hadrian, but is instead just a prologue to the story he Ruocchio wanted to tell. I will put up a full 2nd read through review eventually, but life has been busy lol
Thanks for watching and commenting! Hope you enjoyed!
@@glory4645 you're conflating influence with actual phrasing, words, sentences
new to channel, liked your review
Thank you for the kind words! And welcome to the channel :)
A very boring book. I forced myself to finish it hoping it would pick up. I feel like I wasted my time
I don’t mind boring books! But this book felt like a prologue instead of being its own story.
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“Fear is the mind killer” and “rage is blindness” are nowhere similar ??? Right? I feel many of your “similarities” are stretching. You’re just looking to be hyperbolic. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. Keep up the videos.
I think the similarities are compounding. So if it was just this one saying, then no, the inspiration would not be as apparent. However, since making this video I have watched like a dozen interviews with Ruocchio where he discusses these similarities and how he did it on purpose, wanting us to think of dune and the contrast between the two. He was going for a conversation with Herbert, and while I understand what he was trying to do, I was not able to appreciate it in the first read through. I just kept thinking about dune and wasn’t able to enjoy the story for what it was.
Thanks for the comment and support! This is a place for discussions of books even if you disagree with me :) we are happy to have you here as part of the channel!
If you can’t read a book inspired by other books you can’t read anything unless you only read from oldest to newest. Have you read all of Farland, Hambly, and Jordan before Sanderson? How about Robert E. Howard and the other influences for Jordan and the others? By this logic you can’t read Robin Hobb unless you’ve read Fritz Leiber. Writing is a conversation, it helps to be informed but I think you’re a little misinformed here.
For me, it was less about it being inspired by something that came before, and more of the fact that I couldn’t focus on the story because the constant references and call backs to other books kept making me think of other books instead of being able to appreciate the story Rucchio was trying to tell.
In fact, I am a lover of tropes, and enjoy seeing trope variation amongst authors. The Winter King, for example, is a retelling of Arthur’s story, but done in a way that enabled me to focus and appreciate his story for what it was, rather than making me think of all the aurthurian stories I had read in the past.
Tress is another wonderful example of a book inspired by princess bride, and yet once past the beginning, let me appreciate the story for what it was.
As far as not reading the new until the old, it’s more about the fact that I wasn’t able to appreciate this story because it made me keep thinking of a series I had already started and loved, and was eager to get back to. It was doing Empire of Silence a disservice by not finishing that series first. Also, I objectively believe Dune and The Book of the New Sun are better than Empire of Silence, and have a higher priority to finish those before continuing with this journey.
Hope that clears things up. Thank you so much for watching and supporting the channel! I love discussions like this and is one of the reasons I started my BookTube channel.
do you really think rage is blindness is lifted from fear is the mind killer? you don't think anyone has ever said that before Gene Wolf? I mean have you ever seen star wars lol?
Ruocchio has mentioned the purposeful callbacks (including this one) in interviews with other booktubers. My argument is not that this is a bad thing, but that he did not execute it in a way that kept me rooted in his world. I was unable to appreciate this story for what it was for 3/4 of the book because I kept thinking about other books. Hope that clarifies.
Thanks for watching! Hope you’re enjoying the channel.
I tried reading empire of silence, felt bored, started reading three body problem, blew my mind!!! I kind of feel ruocciou knows how dumb bookfans and booktubers are and he saw this as an opportunity to get good reviews by writing rip-off scifi
I don’t believe that. I think he had good intentions and was trying to have fun with his book and writing by paying homage to his favorites, but didn’t stick the landing (for me at least). I really respect the author and his devotion to the genre.
Also, I have heard great things about three body problem! Plan to check it out eventually :)
@@NICKREADSFANTASY its amazing :)
How can you describe Ruocchio as a good author yet say EoS reads like 'fanfiction'? Fan ficion is not generally considered good writing.
That’s a great question!
Ruocchio can write a story where the plot is exciting, characters are consistent and fleshed out, and more importantly, get the story across clearly to his readers. All of which make him in my opinion a skilled author. On top of that, he was able to accomplish these feats while maintaining a consistently beautiful prose.
To clarify, I think fan fiction can be good writing. If a fan of Star Wars writes a beautiful and consistent Star Wars movie script, I would like it more than what the latest movies had been. My problem with Ruocchio story is that he used so many elements from Dune, and so many passages from BoTNS, that instead of being able to enjoy his writing, all I could think about was Dune. He made me think of the original over what he was writing. During the last 1/4 of the book, which felt the most original, he made me want to continue the series.
It was an excellent question and I hope that clarity’s my opinion! Thanks for watching and welcome to the channel :)
Two things can be true at the same time, no? :-)
@@Speed202 exactly!
It seems awfully long.
It is a long book, but some of my favorite books of all time are double its length. Length of the book is not a down side to me, but I know it is intimidating for some.
Thanks for watching and supporting the channel :)
I don't have a lot of patience for these over-descriptive fantasy novels that booktubers seem to like. I guess they have the time for it.
@@epiphoney Honestly, I might fall into that category lol but I think a also enjoy the simple and tropey stuff as well. I’m currently reading Green Rider, which is full of simple prose, plot armor, and tropes, but I’m thoroughly enjoying it lol I will have a full review up early next year, but I would love to hear a few examples of books you consider overly descriptive.
Game of Thrones or any book like it that's around 1000 pages. I love Pandora's Star, but I know that's overdescribed too.
Wrong lol
I have been told this by many 😂😂😂 I hope I enjoy Book 2 more now that I have finished the original Dune trilogy and Book of the New Sun. Maybe I can appreciate it for the conversation it is having with its inspirations.