Watching *BAND OF BROTHERS* For the First Time! (Episode 7-8)
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- This is our First Time Watching Reaction to the Band of Brothers (2001) Episodes and 7 and 8.
Winters is promoted to Battalion Executive Officer after leading a dangerous mission on a Dutch dike, and an ill-equipped Easy Company race to help hold the Allied line in the Ardennes forest. It's the dead of winter, and Easy Company find themselves in the Belgian forest attempting to fend-off frostbite, hunger and battle fatigue.
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U do know that Sobel and Dike didn’t give any input on this book. Also Blithe lived for 20 years. Y’all talking down on men who served their country is infuriating and wrong they deserve respect. Look up their real bio not this farce that they had no input on.
Funny bit, the guy screaming in the river was Tom Hanks doing a bit of a cameo since he was the producer and this was a continuation from Saving Private Ryan.
This was a Spielberg/Hanks production. All the best young actors flocked to get a role in this and the producers could spot the best talent.
You have seen Michael Fassbender before in the series. He played Christensen and was the soldier with the empty canteen that Sobel made do the 12 mile hike over again and was one of the three in the foxhole that Spiers asked if they wanted a cigarette in episode 7. Lt. Jones was Colin Hanks, Tom Hanks son. You might remember him from Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle.
ep 9 is still the hardest one to watch
FINALLY noticed Fassbender. He's been there since the beginning, Ross yelled at him in the first episode for drinking from his canteen.
I been waiting for them to catch them since they missed him then. lol
Tom Hardy is seen in episodes 9-10 but he's alot skinnier than you're used to seeing him as.
youre name bro.... awesome!
Lol@calling Fassbender by his name and David Schwimmer by Ross.
@@paolom.6011 I've called the first episode "The One Where Ross Loses Easy Company" fairly often.
Donnie Wahlberg as Lipton did a great job ... he's good in this show.
You could say he had...The Right Stuff
@@jordanpeterson5140 I saw what you did there!🤣
@@jordanpeterson5140 you can even say he was Hangin Tough the whole time
@@jaives yup, JVee, You Got It. He got through that battle Step by Step.
@@jordanpeterson5140 True all that. As a civilian, he might have been one of those sentimental guys who would say, “Please Don’t Go, Girl,” and he knew why he was afraid to be alone, but as a soldier, he didn’t mind spending a long time in the field to become a Dirty Dawg. As a sergeant, he knew military protocol, so when he jumped over Dike to tell Winters his misgivings, he definitely wasn’t in no mood for no more Games. You could tell that, by that time, he was definitely no longer a New Kid on the Block.
Seeing those tough old guys breaking down absolutely guts me.
Not sure if you've noticed it doesn't show names of the guys at the beginning. That way you don't know who makes it and who doesn't.
It's very powerful hearing the real men talk.
@@callumengland6395 the actual Malarkey at 1:49 was apparently extremely emotional, as he had seen multiple friends get destroyed and maimed by mortars. I suggest listening to the HBO Band of Brothers podcast with Roger Bennett. The episode with Scott Grimes (who plays Malarkey) is very touching
@@daxmiller35 thanks I'll have to check that out
@@callumengland6395 I like that they also withhold clips with Guarnere until the last episode, would have been nice to hear what he had to say but his voice is just so distinct compared to everyone else
FYI, the run that Spiers made actually happened. But not only that, it was even longer, and he was under heavy fire the whole time. He even gave the German soldiers shit as he ran past. The producers underplayed it because they didn't think anyone would buy the real thing.
Winter said it was exaggerated in the show, not the opposite. He didn't run into german lines. He crossed no man's land though.
@@ThaAngelus1 - That's not true, Robin. Speirs' sprint through Foy is lifted straight from Stephen A. Ambrose's book BAND OF BROTHERS, upon which the HBO miniseries was based. Beginning in 1990, Ambrose compiled stories from the surviving veterans of Easy Company about their experiences in the war and put together a cohesive version of events based on these different accounts. While some of the stories about Speirs might be exaggerated or glamorized, the depiction of his fearless run across Foy is true.
According to 1st Sergeant Lipton during a visit to the former battle site with Stephen Ambrose, Dick Winters and Donald Malarkey: "He just kept on running right through the German line, came out the other side, conferred with the I Company CO and ran back. Damn, that was impressive." As a conversation between Lipton and Speirs in the book BAND OF BROTHERS suggests, Speirs likely owed his survival to the fact that none of the German soldiers expected a US soldier to do anything as suicidal as run right through the middle of them. Speirs felt that, in the chaos of battle, many of those Germans may not even have noticed him.
The air of mystery surrounding Ronald Speirs caused a few headaches during the fact-checking process for Ambrose's book. The stories about Speirs include him shooting one of his own men for being drunk as well as handing out cigarettes to 20 German prisoners of war before shooting them all dead (both stories are told in this HBO series). The legal team for Stephen Ambrose's publisher, Simon and Schuster, was concerned that these stories, if published, could open them up to a libel lawsuit. To allay those fears, Major Dick Winters personally got in contact with Speirs to explain that the tales were going to be included in the book and ask if he had any objections.
Speirs was unconcerned about publishing them. He freely admitted they were true. There is an interview with Dick Winters where Winters mentions this. After that conversation, Speirs' stepson expressed concern that the stories might reflect badly on him. He responded, "I'm eighty-one years old, what can they do to me now?"
@@ccchhhrrriiisss100 Ambrose made a lot of mistakes in his book so using his book as the source isn't as fool proof as you think.
@@JimNortonsAlcoholism - I'm not. I'm quoting a LIVE visit by Ambrose, Lipton, Winters and Marlarkey in 1991 when they visited these former battle locations together. Lipton explained his recollection in great detail. So, this wasn't the historian (i.e., Stephen Ambrose) but an eyewitness. At least at that time, Marlarkey and Winters nodded in agreement with Lipton's account. Some of the same buildings were still (and still are) there. I don't know where Robin Fredriksson got his account; but, I'd be happy to see it.
@@ccchhhrrriiisss100 As an actual historian, Ambrose is a *terrible* historian. Absolutely terrible. The rain this show is so riddled with mistakes is because he only cared about taking a Rah Rah jingoistic story and didn't give half a damn and being accurate or even verifying basic information.
According to George Luz -- who was one of Webster's best friend in Easy -- Webster's return was not met with as much hostility as is portrayed. Webster's friends were glad to see him back and glad to see him unhurt and back in fighting form. Also, when Webster talked to Spiers about not needing Liebgott -- who was another friend of Webster's -- it was to make things easier for Liebgott, not to get out of the patrol himself.
Also, it should be noted that Webster was wounded worse than was portrayed in the show and was evacuated all the way back to England for treatment, rather than a field hospital in France. It would literally have been impossible for Webster to bust out of the hospital and make his own way first to the coast of England, then across the channel to France, and then into Belgium without being arrested for going back to Easy without orders.
I always felt that the this account maybe was Webster projecting a bit. He might have felt out of place because he had missed so much.
If I remember correctly Webster did not go on the patrol. He was on the river giving cover fire. But sense they wanted to tell the story with him, they took some liberties to make him more involved.
@@aworkinprogress4387 I think that is part of it. I also think that the show runner wanted to emphasize the difference between the men who went through Bastogne, and those who did not. Bastogne galvanized 101st because of their mutual hardship. Even the fresh replacements who joined before the counter offensive. Webster would have been slightly out of step with that closeness.
Webster was the soldier who had given the kid his first piece of chocolate. And was the one who responded to the “AWAY AWAY” from that Dutch local before they were ambushed by the camo tank.
Lt Jones is played by Colin Hanks, Tom Hanks’s son. He has been in a number of films. Tom Hanks also has a bit in episode 8.
I found it a bit funny how they said he looked familiar but younger, since he is a spitting image of young Tom Hanks 😄
He's also in the scene with the Canadian grenadiers in episode 3 or 4, in the back ground. You have to look really close. Also only seen it after reading an article about it
Holy COW I never realized the names were the same 🤯 I’m a dunce but I’m glad I know now that’s pretty cool
I'm really impressed by how Lip was taking constantly care of his men; keeping their morale up, keeping them focused, giving them guidance, speaking up for them directly to Capt. Winters. He's a good leader, and he didn't even good to Officer Training.
In reality he was spreading rumours about Dike that weren't true.
@@RandomStuff-he7lusource? I could find any evidence of your claims
Technically that is part of the job of a 1st Sgt. He just did it better than most.
It was the NCOs ( non-commissioned officers- Rank of Sergeant down) that stiffened morale, provided counsel and leadership, and ensured fighting efficiency in all the Armies, on both sides. Men like Carwood Lipton.
Webster's injury was when Winters led the attack on the crossroads. Webster was the one that fell in the ditch yelling "they got me" and then complained that he couldn't think of anything more witty to say than that.
My favorite line is after. "I'll see you......... Somewhere else!"
He didn't complain he didn't have a better line, he just thought what he said was stupid lol
@@kevinzhang6623 Maybe I am thinking of Webster's novel about his experiences in the military. It's called "Parachute Infantry: An American Paratrooper's Memoir of D-Day and the Fall of the Third Reich" and he expresses dismay that as a writer he couldn't think of anything more witty than "they got me".
@@damonmcknight Ah, good point that explains it
Lugers had/have a notoriously finicky trigger. A slight pull, like catching the trigger on a pocket, can be enough to discharge the weapon.
Episode 7 always breaks me. The scene of Guarnere going after Toye and getting wounded, and then Buck's reaction to seeing them. The emotions of the actors come through, and make you feel it. That and then the artillery shell landing at the edge of the foxhole!
I was watching this series at work and one of my coworkers came by on break. She was chatting and I had to shush her quickly, telling her to watch. As soon as the shell landed, she screamed and ducked under the table she was at. She came back a couple of weeks later and said she had binged the whole series and thanked me for bringing it to her attention.
don't want to be smart ass, but that's episode 7, same feelings on it btw, sorry on correction.
@@shockre1119 don't worry, you're right. I'll change it
In real life, he didn't shoot himself with a Luger but another type of pistol with no safety.
It wasn't actually a Luger that Hoobler had, it was a Belgian .32 pistol which doesn't have a safety.
While the gun that caused Hoobler's death wasn't a Luger, the Luger was indeed prone to accidental discharges, and there are accounts of soldiers who picked up Lugers as trophies and ended up shooting themselves on accident.
The song the girls sing in the chapel dates back to 1784. A loose translation of the first verse would be “The joys of love only last for a moment, the pains of love last the whole life long.” In the 1960s the song got new life. There was a key change, some shifting to accommodate English lyrics, and a new bridge. This became one of Elvis’s greatest hits, “Falling in Love with You.”
Get outta town!😮
What a wonderful background story, MS5744; many thanks!
Lt. Dike was with the regimental headquarters unit in the Normandy invasion. He was awarded a bronze star for Valor for(think saving pvt.Ryan) organizing the defense of a vital bridge crossing against several German attacks. He was wounded while fighting in Holland. Dike was awarded a bronze star for Valor for repeatedly exposing himself to enemy fire to pull three easy company troopers who were wounded to cover at Bastogne. The book and series is based mostly on the recollections of the company survivors. Dike had the misfortune of being an outsider. He wasn't a "Toccoa" man. His calls and his seeming to be always missing was more than likely him using his friends at regimental headquarters to get supplies to his people. During the attack on Foy he was seriously wounded and was completely disoriented when Speirs relieved him. Again, Dike was not a "Toccoa" man like Winters, Heyliger or Speirs, and the fact that he was in charge during the worst of situations, the company tends to blame him for it.
As for Speirs, on D-day, he and his squad shot 3 prisoners because they were under orders not to take prisoners. They were surrounded and had no way to keep them. The drunk Sargeant refused a direct order and pointed his weapon at Speirs, who shot him in self defense. There are some things in the series that have been given the Hollywood treatment(characters combined or words or actions attributed to someone else, or omitted altogether, ect.)but for the most part it is a good representation of the recollections by the company's survivors.
great info! thanks so much!
Awesome! I was looking through the comments to see if anyone had said this. I'd also like to add a couple of things. One I've heard that another reason that Dike wasn't well liked in the company was because he was socially awkward. If I remember correctly, stuff like him just walking away from conversations like he did with Lipton were things he actually did. Also like you said about this series getting the Hollywood treatment, I remember hearing that once when Major Winters was speaking to Tom Hanks about how something wasn't really how it went in reality Tom Hanks explained how in Hollywood things are 10% real and 90% made up when it comes to things based on historical events.
The notion Dike was being blamed for being an outsider is wild. There is just no way that Ambrose was told the same thing over and over by a bunch of people only because they didn't like an outsider. Dike was not a good leader once he took over Easy. It's that simple. Maybe he was suffering from PTSD. Who knows? But in that moment, that day, what happened wasn't that Dike was "wounded" as is now the narrative by his defenders, but that he lost control of the situation and had to be replaced. That's what happened. No need to herofy him. Prior to taking over Easy, he seemed to be a good leader. But that's where his quality leadership ended.
The church scene at the end of Episode 7 is so good. The way they portray the casualties by having them fade away. The little talk Speirs has with Lipton is really good also. A battlefield commission is a REALLY big deal.
The problem of Dike is that this story is based on the memories of the men of Easy Company, and in Dike's case, everybody hated him. He was wounded early in the attack on Foy and lost enough blood to start being incoherent. Dike was nobody's idea of a skilled company commander (he was a successful platoon leader, but had trouble leading a larger unit). Nobody found out about the wounds until he was evacuated to an aid station. The men of Easy never heard anything about this and thus figured Dike was just being Dike again.
It's like how the book and show treated Sobel. All accounts by the memories of the soldiers but they left out the parts of him actually being good at training them. Also they left out the parts of them not liking Sobel because he was Jewish because it would put out heroes in a bad light.
Same with how the show says Pvt. Blythe died of his wounds. From what I’ve read, he actually survived and went on to distinguished service up until the Korean War. I believe the men of Easy just thought he died because they didn’t hear from him again. I believe the showrunners even had to issue an apology to Blythe’s surviving family members. Sad that they couldn’t correct it on the show, though.
This type of history is largely based on perspective and memories. The events (like the attack on Foy) happened, that is a fact, but exactly how they happened, and each man's individual experiences and perception of those events naturally differ (it is coloured by that, and understanding that also illuminates the events in this show - Spiers himself describes exactly that talking about the Centurian and how the men view him, whether that is reality or not). My understanding is that Dike was an adequate, personally brave, competent platoon officer who simply could not cope with the command of Easy Company. His failings in this respect were intensified by his stepping into the beloved Winter's position during the very difficult Bastogne fighting.
@@cyberdan42 Yeah, I once described Norman Dike of being a victim of the Peter Principle (which can be explained as "if you perform well in your job, you will likely be promoted to the next level of your organization's hierarchy. As long as you continue to perform well, you will continue to rise up the ladder until you inevitably reach the point where you can no longer perform well.)
@@GrumpyOldGuyPlaysGames The military is rife with examples of this, officers who were superb at a small unit scale then, as their command increased they collapsed. The U.S. Civil War is one of the most starkly obvious collection of such examples. It is generally true in all walks of life but in the crucible of combat, life and death on split-second decisions under incredible pressure, it is magnified a thousandfold. And is tragically discovered when soldiers inevitably are slaughtered.
You can actually see Cobb (Drunk Soldier) arrested by MP's in the back of a jeep at the end of the episode. He was ultimately discharged from the army.
The reason Lt Jones looked so familiar to you is because the actor looks incredibly similar to his father, who happens to be Tom Hanks. And yes, Band of Brothers (and the Pacific, to some extent) is basically a who's-who of big-name actors from before they were big-name actors.
Toye coming back to rejin the company when he wasn't fully recovered, and Guarnere leaving his foxhole to help him knowing shells could start landing at any moment illustrates the extreme courage, loyalty and friendship these men had.
This is a series that exemplifies manly love, love that is not gratuitously displayed, but overtly shown through personal sacrifices for others.
The last member of Easy Company Bradford Clark Freeman passed away last year July 6th 2022 at the ripe ole age of 97. The last officer Edward Shames passed away December3rd 2021 at the age of 99. Rest in Peace to the Men of Easy Company. Shames was the one seen yelling in the beginning of the 7th episode.
Fortunately for Joe Toye, a traumatic amputation sometimes results in the veins and arteries snapping shut on their own. My younger brother lost his hand in an accident with a large circular saw, and was alone. He lost very little blood due to the way his hand was severed. He's making artificial limbs now!
The extreme cold probably helped as well.
It's very moving that even though he was on the edge of cracking under the psychological stress of the battle and seeing his closest friends mained and killed, Malarkey was so loyal brothers in arms that he didn't want to leave them by taking a just short break from the front line. It's also very smart and perceptive that Lip understood that the only way to get him to leave was to convince him that it was for Buck's sake. I'm also surre that Buck, who was dealing with dome major psychological taruma too, really did appreciate Malarkey coming to see him off. Lip the two of them with one stroke.
The man yelling from across the river did actually happen but the guys finally did manage to throw a grenade across and kill him. In the show, the person screaming in the shot was Tom Hanks.
West point grads are commissioned 2nd LTs. In the book, they talk about how since they would be the ones leading the army post war, they were quickly promoted and moved off the battlefield. They comment how it was something like the “west point protection society” or something like that where the class ring was like the secret password. The breaking point is a title of a chapter meaning the army had a number where it was like after X numbers of days on the front, they expected men were going to be less effective (not surprisingly) even if they were not wounded. Lots of easy guys were well past the number.
Joe Toye passed in 1995; he had retired from working as a drill bit grinder. Cancer. Guarnere ("Gonnarhea"), died of a ruptured aneurism in 2014. He did odd jobs after the war, as well as being instrumental in the Easy Company reunions after the war ended.
In addition to Fassbender and McAvoy, there's Tom Hardy, Richard Speight Jr (Muck, he later played on Supernatural), and Jamie Bamber (Lt. Foley, he later played on the Battlestar Galactica remake)
Malarkey's actor plays in The Orville too.
@@emwungarand ER, as well
Guarnere's actor had a season om 24.
Webster's actor played as Pinocchio on Once Upon a Time.
@@nicolivoldkif9096 And was in Fight Club
Lugers actually have a pretty infamous reputation for being extremely sensitive to accidental discharges, so it probably wasn't him doing something stupid with it, but just being unaware of its tendency to go off like that and handling it like he would an M1911, thinking it was safe.
It actually wasn't a Luger he shot himself with, but a different pistol with no safety.
Lugers aren't that unsafe to handle (see: Japanese Nambu pistols), but mishandling any firearm is dangerous. Trigger discipline, people!
@Unruinable I think most people think it was an FN 1910 or 1922, a lot of Germans were cutting around with captured Belgian and French sidearm, especially after they took over the factory's earlier in the war
@Tom Jackson yeah I completely forgot, but it was during one of their reunions where they had talked about it being a Belgian or some other pistol with no safety, and it snagged on something in his pocket.
@@unruinable138 I feel like he would have had to be playing with it or carrying it with the safety off because it has a manual safety and a grip safety, but once they're cocked, they really do have a hair trigger
No that's Private Webster, the guy who said "they got me" in episode 5.
The guy who went for a 30 day leave was Lt. Peacock.
FWIW, the book and series did Lt Dike pretty dirty. Example, when they were trying to take Foy, he was wounded and that's what had stopped him, not broken morale/fear.
He also had commendations for valor under fire for actions in Normandy he received 2 bronze Stars.
The fact that he saved three men from East Company in Bastogne and they do him like this to the author is infuriating. He got wounded in the attack on Foy they know this yet they still tell lies about him it’s so damn wrong.
Yes and no. He was done dirty in the sense they showed him breaking down instead of being shot or how they downplayed his record before the battle of the bulge.
Other than that you can just argue that the men saw him this way. Winters had no respect for him. The men had little to no respect for him. I can get the family not liking one of their family members being shown this way but when the men talk about him like this then you can't really do much.
No record of him being shot.
Graduation from a military academy gets you a commission. You don’t jump up in rank automatically. Going through ROTC or OCT does a similar thing. But being a West Point grad is like being an Ivy League grad.
It's mostly about the political connections, and the prestige on your record.
The connections and "prestige" is accurate about a grad from the Point. It does not guarantee a path to General but it makes it a hell of a lot easier if one has his shit straight and gets solid OER's throughout. Legacies even more so. Sadly it's rewarding the weaker and less quality for the most part. Some of the most ate up officers I came across were from Westpoint. They don't really get a good degree, nothing even close to on par with Ivy League schools (so much of their curriculum is military garble and not educational substance). And they don't get a solid experience in military either. Are there some that make it in civilian life without contacts and such, sure. But for the most part the are lame compared to OCS, Green to Gold and hell, even some ROTC that feel they have something to prove. Westpoint is an honor but it's not what is perceived. Their just soldiers. I would not look forward to serving with them any time in the future.
A commissioned officer starts as the lowest rank officer, which is Lieutenant in the Army, Air Force ans Marine Corps; in the Navy it's Ensign.
A non-commissioned officer (Sargent) can become an officer by attending Officer Candidate School (OCS) or earn a battlefield commission like Lipton. That only happens in time of war, of course.
Great reaction guys, and Kacee is onto something at 1:08:25 about having a degree.
This is a bit of an oversimplification, but all military branches have *Commissioned Officer* (CO) ranks and *Non-Commissioned Officer* (NCO) ranks.
A good analogy is the difference between a doctor with a medical license and a nurse with a nursing license. NCOs are like nurses and COs are like doctors. They both get some of the same training (biology/boot camp) although doctors and COs get extra training (medical school/officer school). There are many things that both can do, but they are specialized for different things.
NCOs, like nurses, typically "run the day to day" and handle ordering and stocking supplies, training (like drill sergeants for boot camp), keeping schedules, making sure everyone has what they need, and can be more managerial and often the "backbone of the hospital/unit".
COs however are the only ones that can command a unit and give orders in the same way that doctors are the only ones that can LEGALLY diagnose someone. A nurse may have enough experience to recognize someone has cancer but only the doctor LEGALLY can say, "hey you have cancer", and just like how if things go sideways, it's the doctor who is sued for malpractice and not the nurse, the CO bears the burden of responsibility for his or her unit, good or bad.
In wartime, a CO can "field promote" someone to another rank (below their own) early, like Winters getting promoted from Lieutenant to Captain to Major all in the span of a few months. Likewise, a CO can give a "field commission" to an NCO to make them a CO without having to go to West Point first, like making Lipton a Lieutenant. This would be the equivalent of a doctor granting a nurse a doctor's license based on merit. It doesn't happen often and is ONE HELL of an honor when it does.
Again this is an oversimplification but good enough for TV watching, hope it helps!
Cheers
The doctors/nurses analogy is very good...amazingly enough I've never heard it before.
Good analogy. To add, U.S. military officers usually make up 10% of the population of the military. Enlisted personnel have specialized jobs (MOS) that contribute to the success of the unit. Officers generally manage the enlisted personnel (NCOs, when rank is attained). As officers earn higher rank, they are in command of more groups of personnel. There are exceptions to what I added (Special Operations) but it is a general layout of the military.
I've always used the officer being administrative management and NCOs being the floor supervisor comparison.
Webster was the guy who gave the Dutch kid a slab of chocolate in Holland, in the 4th episode "Replacements". He and Hoobler went looking for "Bull" (aka Abraham) in the same episode. Webster then got shot in Ep 5, where he says, "They got me. Can you believe I said that? "
Hey guys, love your channel. I'm a 10 year veteran of the army infantry, so I'm happy to lend some knowledge. When mortars or artillery hit the ground, they send shrapnel flying. The purpose of the fox hole is to be down below the ground so that the shrapnel won't hit you. In or out of the fox hole, you're not going to survive a direct hit.
If you guys ever have questions about US military, specifically army stuff.
Also, all west point graduates are commissioned as officers straight away, so they graduate as officers.
When you graduate as an officer isn't it possible to graduate slightly higher depending on performance in school.
@@robertyingling8193 in my experience, performance does not get you a higher rank. It can get you a better posting, which will likely lead to a faster promotion, but all those graduating west point or ROTC are commissioned as second lieutenants.
The only way I know of to get a higher rank upon initial entry as an officer is enlisting in a job that doesn't have a lieutenant position. The two that come to mind are medical doctor or chaplain. Both of those jobs are commissioned as a captain (O-3). I'm pretty sure there are others, but I'm not confident enough to list any for sure.
Also protects more against the tree bursts that send splinters of wood flying about as lethal shrapnel as well.
Fun fact: when they went to examine the sniper Shifty killed at the end. They found that the sniper had a hole right between his eyes. That’s how good of a marksman Shifty was
Sidenote about what likely happened with Hoobler:
German Lugers were known for accidentally discharging from time to time, which was why German officers were told to keep them in belt holsters at their side.
The theory is Hoobler likely stuffed his luger down his pants against his belt and the gun went off in his thigh.
One of the real vets said "We had good officers...FOR THE MOST PART, but we had EXCELLENT NCOs." Episode 7 shows that so well.
West Point is considered the top tier military academy for the Army. When someone graduated they are a 2nd Lieutenant (the lowest rank of officer). There are other military academies as well, when you graduate from one of them you are also a 2ns Lieutenant. Another way for a soldier to become an officer is to go through Officer Candidate School (OCS), this is usually for enlisted personnel who are attempting to become officers. The other was to become an officer is by battlefield commission, this is what happened to Lipton. The scene where you see him being discharged is because he is no longer enlisted he is now an officer (can't be both). He was a 1st Sergeant (a very high ranking enlisted soldier) and was then a 2nd Lieutenant. The lowest ranking officer outranks the most senior enlisted person in the military, all officers are referred to as sir by people at a lower rank than they are.
If I remember correctly, Webster was wounded in the legs and couldn't even walk. He had to go through rehabilitation before he could even fonction as a soldier again.
7:08 What you said about wrong decisions vs. no decisions reminds me that we that we were taught that an imperfect plan carried out with full commitment has a better chance of success than a perfect plan carried out halfheartedly.
I like that one. One I learn is bad leaders don't make bad decisions, the just don't make decisions. You can always "re-direct" from a bad decision, but you can't take any actions with "no" decision. (Of course this is used in context).
Also falls under the broader scope of 'a plan almost never survives contact with the enemy'. You want officers who are good at making plans, and being able to improvise when their plans get FUBARed by circumstances beyond their control.
One other point is that Winters had been the Executive officer of a battalion (normally a major) for months as a captain. This meant he could be overruled by others in the same job who were simply one rank higher but less battle experience (common challenge of being constantly in the middle of a battle like bastogne) The book highlights his frustration of being in this predictament. Decisions got made by others that put easy at more risk that he could not prevent.
U believe that I don’t how can he forget that Blithe didn’t die in the war a real leader doesn’t let that lie stand
The guy that plays Jones is Tom Hanks' son. That is probably why he looks familiar to you.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you guys Watch (The Pacific) next. Just as great as Band of Brothers just shows the other theater of war and what that was like! Keep up the great content!!!!
Just a quick point just in case you're not aware. Lipton getting promoted to 2LT is more than just getting bumped up to the next pay grade. He is going from being a non commissioned officer (NCO - horizontal stripe on their helmet) to a commissioned officer. Its a pretty big deal to make that jump.
My father was a paratrooper with the 101st, and survived the battle at Bastogne. They had little ammo, and no winter clothing when they went in. To his dying day, he could not stand snow or the cold. He spoke very little of what they went through, but then most of the WWII veterans we knew didn't talk about their experiences. His regiment went through everything that is portrayed in this series. I watch this once a year in his memory, and thank him and the others for what they did.
In modern warfare Artillery only accounts for about 15% of total equipment but it causes over 50% of the casualties. Also in the series it’s hinted that Spiers didn’t shoot the POW’s. When Stephen Ambrose was researching for the book he kept hearing about the stories about Spiers. He was afraid to put it in the book for fear of being sued for libel so he talked to Winters about it. Winters called up Spiers and asked him about it. Ronald Spiers said “Why would I sue someone over something that was true.”. Spiers really did shoot those POW’s on D-day, Winters confirmed it.
Great reactions to this outstanding series. Webster was hit in ep 5 "Crossroads". He shouted "I can't believe I said I got hit"...
I've seen this show so many time's since it first came out and I've seen a lot of reactions to it, your reaction is one of the best I've seen, thanks
This show have high rewatchability value :)
The scene that, in my opinion they did so well is when Jackson is brought in, heavily wounded. Pure panic untill the Doc, Roe, comes in and its fully silent. Letting him do his job but also showing the respect the guys have for him and what he does. Brilliant.
The next 2 episode is going to be hard, but they are very important. This is one of my favorite series. I watched it when it came out and watch it every year and i still cry every time.
In his defence (although it's not shown in the series) Norman Dike had been hit in the shoulder - he actually went on to win two bronze stars - For his action at Uden, Holland, with the 101st Airborne Division between 23 and 25 September 1944, in which he “organized and led scattered groups of parachutists in the successful defense of an important road junction on the vital Eindhoven-Arnhem Supply Route against superior and repeated attacks, while completely surrounded." Dike was awarded a second Bronze Star for his action at Bastogne, in which "he personally removed from an exposed position, in full enemy view, three wounded members of his company, while under intense small arms fire". He did freeze, but it wasn't panic, he was wounded.
Here's the thing about being in an artillery shelling: One spot is as good as the other. Either a shell lands where you are or it doesn't. My grandfather went through a couple of those during WW2 and he said it was awful. He remembered hearing men younger than him crying for their mothers during the shelling.
Episode 7 is VERY unfair to Dike. He was actually an EXCELLENT platoon leader. In Normandy, he was wounded while saving the lives of several of his men, and, was wounded. During the assault on Foy, he didn't "freeze up". He had been shot, was bleeding out, and, going into shock. He stayed in the Army after the war, resigning his commission as a Lt. Colonel in 1957.
With a hit to the femoral artery, a person can bleed out in as little as 2 minutes.
I think the series is very sympathetic to Buck’s PTSD but ignores Dike’s.
True, and many of the things he's doing, such as yawning at random & phasing out, as signs of extreme stress and PTSD
The series is also unfair to Sobel as many of the men of Easy credit their training on why they survived.
I feel like this is a "he said she said" situation since Winters and others are adamant that Dike (to keep it simple) was portrayed exactly how they thought it happened. Lets not forget that even some soldiers in Easy Company (like Lt. Shames) didn't have a good opinion of Winters either but since the majority likes Winters, we just have to take their word for it. It's the same with Lt. Dike.
West Point grads are commissioned officers, but they hold the same rank as other officers (2nd Lieutenant) when initially commissioned. Being a WP grad can be an advantage for promotions in the long run.
Another reason for Webster being delayed coming back to Easy company was that Easy company had a reputation of leaving the hospital early and without permission. I imagine that the hospital and command made an example of him by making him do the full rehab and replacement training.
When you graduate from one of the military academies (West Point, Annapolis, Air Force Academy) you receive a Regular commission, as opposed to a Reserve commission. That usually meant that promotion to the next grades was a bit earlier. I graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1973. Theoritically, regular commissions are superior to reserve commisions in that if there is a reduction in force, the reserve officers are let go first. Nowadays, those who get reserve commissions through college ROTC or OTS are eventually offered regular commissions so that, as one progresses through the ranks, every officer is a Regular.
Dike had previous combat experience he had been decorated. What they didn’t realise because he had 2 coats on the scene by the haystack where he’s was confused he had been shot twice in the chest.
Wild Bill Gaurnere was easily my favorite character from this show. This episode's always hard to get thru with what happens to him and Toye. But the legend himself lived until 2014
I suggest listening to the HBO Band of Brothers podcast with Roger Bennett. The episode with Frank John Hughes (who plays Guarnere) is awesome. He and Babe Heffron just sound like amazing people
@@daxmiller35 Never knew this existed. Will absolutely listen. Thanks!
"The Breaking Point" isn't just a clever name. Remember the kid that broke before he ever ran Currahee? Imagine him amongst the exploding trees and bleeding screams. Speirs is truly a legend, and after his speech to Blithe, he put his money where his mouth is.
I’ve read Donald Burgett’s 4 books about his times in the 101st. He describes Speirs as the most fearless soldier he knew. Highly recommend books. That was long before band of brotherels even came out.
As an explanation of rank: there are two rank ladders, enlisted (private, corporal, sergeant, etc) and officer (lieutenant, captain, major, etc). Graduating from one of the military academies (Naval Academy, West Point, Air Force Academy), graduating Officer Candidate School, going through Reserve Officer Training Course in college guarantees an Officer rank. West Point, the Naval Academy, and the Air Force Academy, definitely helps advance up the Officer corps but doesn't necessarily guarantee a higher rank.
I like that someone comment on Episode 7 "It's amazing that Speirs can run so fast with those gigantic balls!"
17:20 what does he do all day?
I don't f>
Lots of famous UK actors were in this series, all playing Americans, mainly because it was shot primarily at Hertfordshire, England. Damian Lewis, James McAvoy, Michael Fassbender, Simon Pegg, Dominic Cooper, Jamie Bamber just to name a few. West Point guy, Jones is played by Colin Hanks, Tom Hank's son. He has been in a lot of shows and movies over the years.
Episode 7 is my favorite of the series. So much happens, covers just about the full spectrum of emotions. The scene in the convent was great. One thing that is good to do, is watch the series again, you catch a lot of little details.
50:04 Michael Fassbender has been in the show since the first episode.
1:07:01 Winters didn't get promoted because of these patrols. He got promoted because of his previous actions. Particularly leadership during Bastogne and the weeks following.
Fassbender was actually in the first ep. He was the one who drank water. There are so many actors here who got their start and most of them are popular and/or successful today.
This was my favorite ep, then the medic one, then 9.
In the last Patrol the new LT was the senior man in the patrol. Note that Winter's specified he was an observer only and the veteran Sargeant was actually leading the patrol. It is called positional authority. The Sargeant was junior to the Lt. but as designated leader he was immediately senior to anyone in the patrol.
Joe Toye also survived two grenades on D-day on the assault on the German guns at brecourt Manor. What a hero.
They finally recognized Michael Fassbender. He's been there since episode one (he's the guy who had to redo the march after drinking from his canteen).
2:06 Trauma everyone went through. I remember Leon Degrelle's accounts while serving under the SS as a Belgium volunteer, that he still has nightmares when he sleeps and hears screaming when he closes his eyes. Very controversial figure but the fact that he was willing to admit it is excellent. He survived some of the toughest fighting on the Eastern Front, including surviving both the Cherkassy Pocket and Courland Pockets when getting trapped by the Russian Army, and to be brutally honest, he became a die heart Nazi by wars end, and remained so til his grave.
Indeed, this is based on Stephen Ambrose's Band of Brothers book. You owe it to yourself to read something of his...whether it be Band of Brothers, Citizen Soldiers, Undaunted Courage, or any of the many others. He and David McCullough are a couple of the most "readable" historians.
Band of Brothers at the very least. It is a rich read. There is a part towards the end that always gives me a sense of levity. A bunch of the men of E were drinking, and everyone handles intoxication a little differently. You have the bunch who pass oiut, the ones who get morose. Then you have your talkers and your fighters. But nothing prepares you for the guy who breaks out the clothes iron and presses every uniform that he can find. A whole room of drunk soldiers, watching this guy iron all of their spare uniforms furiously.
U can’t believe what is said in the book Blithe didn’t die for 20 years and Sobel had no input so u can’t believe what is said about them
@@johnwalkeristhatdude3018 the book is non-fiction, but not the documentary, as well as the series. It's based on the memories of the heroes as well as on the books of the companie's soldier. So it definitely can't be 100% accurate.
@@Makarowka322 Both the book and the show aren't 100% accurate, we as readers/audience are basically stuck between the fact that Ambrose was a shitty historian and the fact that the vets' memories count as credible source, so it's hard to tell how true the details are
Fassbender was in the first episode. He's the one that drank from his canteen during the night march.
You also see him on one of the machine guns a few times in different battles. In the Bastogne ep when Spiers overhears them talking and turns and offers the a cigarette as he leaves, Fassbender is one of the guys in the foxhloe.
"The Last Patrol" Tom Hanks even enlisted his own son into the War. While Winter's ordering the men to NOT make the last patrol is beyond words. Easy Company was his family.
EPISODE 9 IS GOING TO HIT THE ABSOLUTE HARDEST I PROMISE YOU WILL CRY
Thanks for doing this, as a Veteran, one thing I missed, and this show demonstrates is the "Brotherhood" or commadee. Again, you two are excellent
Fun fact: Shifty was a great marksman. He had a really great pair of eyes.
Back during Bastogne, he was able to spot enemy German artillery spotters figuring out where to bomb and hit Easy's line.
How? The Germans had used a fake tree as camouflage and Shifty was able to tell it hadn't been there before. He reported it immediately to Lipton and Easy company got their own artillery to attack before the Germans could start a barrage.
That church scene is just beautiful through and through. The emotional part with the losses fading out, Speirs confirming his status as an absolute badass with the Tercius story, and Lip finally getting the recognition he deserves for holding Easy together.
When you graduate from West Point, you are commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant, which is where all officers start out. However, West Point officers are considered "high class" compared to ROTC officers (Buck Compton) or officers commissioned from the enlisted ranks (Winters, Shames, Lipton). Especially late in the war, West Point officers seemed to get preferential treatment. The real reason was they would still be army officers once the war was over (they chose that as their career) while many of the others would go back to civilian life.
Winters had been doing the job of a major since he got "promoted" in Crossroads and even commanded the battalion (lt. Col job) during Bastogne. Took a while for him to get the formal rank increase.
B of B was written from the stories of the men who survived. Webster died in 1961 but had written a book of his experiences so that was used in the miniseries also.
West Point trains officers, so it does mean you'd start at a higher rank. If you have a college degree I believe you are also able to become an officer, but you'd still have to go through officer school. The battlefield commission that Lipton gets took him from an NCO (Non commissioned officer) to an actual Officer. NCO's are the sergeants, regular enlisted men who lead smaller groups of enlisted men. Lipton was the company 1st Sargent, making him the highest ranking NCO in the company if i recollect correctly. But even then, all NCO's are lower rank than the lowest lieutenant.
its hilarious when they just now notice Fassbender when he was the one in boot camp that drank from his canteen when ordered not to XD
Jones was a cop in season one of Fargo. That’s what I remembered him from.
54:35 You can become an officer through attending West Point, or by going through ROTC in any other college. Texas A&M actually produced more officers during the war than either service academy. But as for being a higher rank if you graduate West Point as opposed to other colleges, that is untrue. All new officers begin as 2nd Lieutenants
There are two different sets of rank in the US military. You have officers and enlisted people. Even the most junior officer still outranks the most senior enlisted person. Lipton was the senior most enlisted person in E Company and in this episode, he became a 2nd lieutenant, which will make him the most junior officer. You were right, by graduating from a military academy, Jones was a 2nd Lieutenant.
Modern artillery is fucking terrifying. Easy got absolutely shellac'd in those woods.
In WW1 the shelling was so constant that is was like a bad drum beat and never ending. All manner of shells from 75 or so up through 300mm
Lt. Dike deserved much of the criticism he got from the men of Easy, but not all of it. He was a flawed man, but not the coward he is portrayed as. During the attack on Foy he got shot in the right shoulder and was panicking because of the wound until he was evacuated by medics and Spears took command. And during the war he received 2 bronze stars for acts of valor. The first one in Holland on September 23 1944 for organizing and leading scattered paratroopers in defending an important road junction on the supply route against superior and repeated attacks while completely surrounded. And the second at Bastogne on January 3 1945 for personally removing from an exposed position, in full enemy view, 3 wounded members of his company, while under intense small arm fire.
The guy shooting himself by accident is a lesson learned. One of my NCOs brought an AK-47 in one day before we deployed. Showed us how it worked, how to disassemble and reassemble. Weapon familiarization. Just in case we ever had to pick one up, we'd know how to use it and not make mistakes.
I think there's an audio error on the video, guys! at 34:47 theres this strange sound. it sounds like massive brass balls clanging together....
It took you 8 episodes to recognize Fassbender?
He's literally one of the OGs, he's the guy who gets to run Currahee again at night for drinking out of his canteen in Episode 1, and he's also part of the MG squad with Perconte when they discuss Speirs in Bastogne - and Speirs shows up offering them cigarettes.
West Point is the prestigious US Army military academy that trains officers pretty much for the career track. West Point graduates are going to be promoted up pretty quickly, after getting a little combat experience, and then are expected to stay in the Army for many years, and become colonels and generals someday. They graduate with the rank of second lieutenant, which is the lowest commissioned officer rank. But while they do start at the bottom rank for commissioned officers, they have significant political connections so more senior officers will look out for them and their careers. They have the reputation for being smarter, more capable officers because of the rigorous standards at West Point, but of course they are quite young and inexperienced at the start of their careers so if they actually are smart they will listen to their sergeants and hopefully not get themselves or their men killed before they go get a desk job at the Pentagon.
Most officers in the Army come out of Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) programs at various civilian colleges. College graduates who enlist in the Army and go to boot camp can be eligible for Officer Candidate School (OCS). There's also direct commissioning in certain specialty fields for chaplains, doctors, and Judge Advocate General (JAG) lawyers, where civilians with preexisting training in those fields can immediately become officers in the Army. Battlefield commissions, like Lipton got, are still possible and used to be more common, but haven't been done in practice since the Vietnam War.
Finally it took them 8 episodes to recognized Michael Fassbender he has been in the show since the first episode he was the guy that Lt. Sobel made to do the whole 12 miles march all over again for driking from his canteen he is also the guy that Lt. Speirs over a cigarette in the last episode
Episode 8
Four pathways to becoming an officer:
the United States Military Academy, Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) programs, direct commissioning, and Officer Candidate Schools (OCS). Combined, the first three produced less than half of officers during WWII. The most common pathway was an OCS program.
I'm just catching up with your reactions and so far I think you did a good job with it. I did find it amusing that you only realised in this episode that Michael Fassbender was in the series, when he was in it from the beginning. He played the part of Christenson and was the guy in episode 1, who drank from his canteen and was ordered by Sobel to do the entire 12 mile March again. This is why I often suggest that people should always watch the series again, because then you recognise people earlier in the series and then are able to follow their stories throughout the series.
The voice of the German left on the banks of the river, is Tom Hanks, and Lt. Jones is Colin Hanks, one of Tom Hanks's sons.
I'm reading Anyhony's shirt and thinking, "what did I ever do to you, man?" 😂
Something worth noting, Dike didn’t simply freeze up and lose control, in reality he was wounded by German fire early in the advance and was suffering from shock, which is when he started losing control.
Don malarkey said in an later interview that the 88 round that directly hit muck and pinkula's foxhole left nothing at all....he went to check and he said "they both were literally vaporised".....tough tough times that was in bastogne...I hugely respect every single one of them
First sergeant Lipton has grown on me and become my favorite character.
If you enjoy reading I highly recommend the book this show is based on, Band of Brothers by Stephen Ambrose. It's incredibly well written and goes into great detail about Easy Company and all they went through. It's based on interviews conducted with the actual veterans, which is why they had several come back to do interviews for the show.
I love the way episode 3 shows three different perspectives on coping with killing (Spiers, Welsh, and Winters). They could have had a similar approach to PTSD this episode with Compton and Dike. I’m still not convinced that Dike could have been a good leader, but he was not the incompetent coward that they portrayed him as.
Speirs run, and Easy Company's attack on Foy in displayed in detail in "The Operations Room" video called "Battle of the Bulge, Animated - Part 8, Easy Company Assaults Foy"
When the book about Easy Company was written, the publishers said they couldn't print the story about Spears and the prisoners, because he could sue them for libel. The writer talked to Winters, and Winters said he'll try to phone Spears to ask him what he thinks.
And Spears still said "Oh, sure, print it. It's all true. I did it."
Buck getting demoralized, depressed and traumatized not from combat, but in the hospital after getting wounded in Holland is all too relatable. Then having it all push him past the breaking point when he saw Bill and Joe get hit when he rejoined them all in battle was really sad.
When I got a broken foot from a training exercise and got sent to a hospital, I saw a lot of really shocking things. I saw men and women waiting to be sent home, they also had broken limbs, depression, common ailments or were waiting to get better in order to return to their units. But you really saw a lot of troubled individuals that were mentally hurt from seeing all of the injuries and being kept isolated from others. Cooping us all up like that was terrible. It was one of the worst experiences I had to go through. We didn't know when we were going home or going back to the barracks or if we could even rejoin our units to see our friends. But the whole time, we just sat there, trying to act like things were normal, when in reality, we were all just seeping in negative energy and witnessing each other hurting so much. I saw a lot of good guys and gals hit their low points. It was terrifying and probably one of the most traumatic things I'd ever been through.
So I couldn't help but feel for Buck here in this episode. Him watching his friends get killed, hit, or die right in front of him was heartbreaking.