Is FSR 3 AMD's biggest disappointment?
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2023
- A snippet from a recent HUB Podcast where Tim outlines why FSR 3 is such a fail on AMD's behalf...
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Is FSR 3 AMD's biggest disappointment?
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How is it a money grab if it's for free?
I take it all as an addition, as a plus - and not as something that is taken for granted and counted with it. So if it works - great, if not - then nothing. The problem is when it is set as a standard - either FSR or DLSS, and especially FG. Then we want every pixel in every frame to be rendered superbly - we want nothing less than that. Now it's not even close to being standard - it's just an add-on, a gimmick.
The problem is that this generation has given no increased performance for the price, and frame generation is presented as the "killer app" that's supposed to make this generation worth buying. While frame generation is nothing more than a bonus or a nice to have feature. But it does give both Nvidia and AMD better performance figures for their own BS presentations.
Try out the latest preview driver version for AFMF updated last week, october 13th.
I updated and now is completely useful on Spiderman miles morales
Its definitely been improved
FSR3 or AFMF, cause those two aren't exactly the same, FSR3 is actually pretty good imho, AFMF though...still needs alot of work and makes sense since it's only on preview driver which basically a beta feature
They already updated AFMF it is a lot better now, still needs work though. :)
@@deyandimitrov7287 Just tried it meself, and it really does run much better, Starfield doesn't turn into blurry mess when fps drop below 40, Cyberpunk transition between fast motion and fmf activated feels more seamlessly as well, so far i'm impressed, since it's only been 2nd update for AFMF
Async Timewarp is when we'll have a real frame generation tech.
DLSS3FG, AFMF and FSR3FG aren't bad tech, they surely need more work, but on paper we have better solution.
Moreover in many cases it's better to have them enabled, the comparison has to be done native against native + FG, not native double framerate, no technology will ever win against native, even upscaling technologies are in most cases worse than native, but it doesn't mean that they are useless.
That demo I found out any from 2kphilips was insane! It made 30 fps feel like 60 not just look like 60. I'm guessing that would require even more game engine integration and per game customisation because of games having cameras that move differently and with different keys.
@@jadeidkabir5395 I think the customisation would be more on the rendering pipeline, the keys are easily changeable. If you are more interested in that I'd suggest you to read the Blur Busters article on that, it's in the same article with Frame Generation.
They basically suggest, along with Async Timewarp, to separate the game from the graphics, therefore not only would we have a smoother gameplay, but it would also decrease input lag since it wouldn't need to wait for the GPU.
I like the technologies and see a lot of potential in them but they do need to be ironed out a lot. I'm pretty optimistic that FSR3 Frame Generation and AFMF a couple of months from now will be a whole different story.
Exactly well said u nailed it
The biggest problem these days is how the marketing push (and unfortunately consumer argumentation) has shifted from "performance" to "software features"... and I still don't care about any of those software features. The only successful technologies lately has been VRR, HDR and modern upscalers (DLSS2+, FSR2+ and XeSS). RT has basically been a tech preview the last 5 years now, and it has either been implemented carefully in a performant manner, or it has been implemented as a tech preview, which would only make it viable for people willing to cough up 1500-2000$ on a GPU. I still don't use RT in any of actively played my games. The only games I have used RT previously on is Metro Exodus (enhanced edition) and Guardians of the Galaxy. But I could've easily played both without RT, and still not feeling like I am "missing out". Frame generation is really only usable during certain circumstances, with certain games. and the moment when you need it the most (at low fps), the input delay takes a massive hit... Nah, I let people fight the "software features"-war while I just enjoy the raw performance of my GPU instead. :) (RX6800)
Right rt is basically shit looks awful and noisy
Cyberpunk path tracing also looks bad unless u enable RR
Rts only good feature is rtao and rt shadows reflections and light can go software
@@mrshinobigaming8447 Agreed. And companies like nvidia are extremely sneaky about how they announce stuff, in what way it will be available, etc. Just look at Ray Reconstruction (RR), released ONLY with the Path Tracing mode in Cyberpunk. Where it huge benefits to image quality and performance. Media outlets go "WOW!!!". Nvidia soaks up all that positive feedback and mind share from all the viewers, later releasing the technique for normal RT, in which the performance is much worse... Less news outlets will cover the tech a second time, and the positive mind share lives on...
I am just starting to hate what the PC hardware industry has become. It's almost like a silly apple event for apple fanbois.
Nope, amd is the one ALWAYS having problems, they can't touch the performance of the top end anyway, if my gpu crashes once it was worth the money difference to me for the 4090. If amd priced their gpus accordingly then we wouldn't have issues but they're delusional with how little they think customers value the stability and features of a gpu. In Canada it is ONLY a 200$ cad difference between a 7900xtx and 4080 which has equal rasterized perf, better rt, better upscaling, more stability, way better efficiency and you don't have fear you're gonna get banned for using features in games. They need to be at least 400cad below the price of the equal nvidia card for me to even CONSIDER amd. I don't want to wait 3 days to play games cause their day 1 drivers aren't day 1. I don't want to get banned for using features. I don't want my game to crash. Nvidia isn't perfect but it works and the only thing I would think about after rebooting my amd card for the 2nd time in a month would be how I should have spent the extra 200$
@@darbstre2900 your black and white mentality isn't sound. You are looking for a "winner".... in a companies??? when in fact there can't be one. It all comes down to personal choices, use cases, preferences. We can always justify our purchasing decision. But it doesn't make one company worse than the other. Ever since the RTX2000-series, nvidia has failed to offer me a products with good price/performance ratios for my use cases. Hence I finally went for a RX6800, which was priced lower than a 3060Ti here in Sweden. Nvidia couldn't compete in rasterized performance, heck they couldn't compete in RT even, and I find Radeon Software suite to be far superior to Nvidias software. Keep in mind I have been an avid nvidia user for the latest 7-9 years (GTX960, GTX1070, Nvidia Shield Tablet-/TV, GameStream etc). But unfortunately Nvidia has turned into "apple" lately, both in terms of marketing, and their business strategies.
You complain about AMD issues, yet 4090 still has PCI connectors cracking, 12VHPWR connectors still melting, multi-monitors still flickering. It's not like one company is better than the other. They just struggle with different things on the manufacturing/software side of things. with that being said, I haven't had a single issue with my RX6800. Except one driver version, which made my WMR headset not work, that was fixed a couple of days later, and I could always downgrade my driver version to get it working again.
In this day and age, nvidia doesn't offer me the value I desire, and I will definitely never fork out 1500-2000$ on a GPU. With that being said. the 4090 IS a solid GPU and the the best in their lineup. But it is also a very niche enthusiast product that people can't afford. Or are not willing to spend the money on. Here in Sweden I can do whatever I like for 5 months (no work) for the same price as a RTX4090.
@@PixelShade one driver version breaking is worth the price difference between the 7900xtx and the 4090, even if the 4080 didn't exist. Not having 1 set of day 1 ready drivers would be worth the price difference. Amd doesn't price their gpus according to the market, the 7900xtx has no business being above 600usd or even 500usd with the SIGNIFICANT amount of issues it has. I'm pretty sure the idle power draw alone pays for the 200$ difference between the 4080 and 7900xtx, even where I live where energy is super cheap. There isn't a "winner or loser" there's one that works and one that doesnt simple as that. If the 4080 is 1000usd then the 7900xtx really needs to 500to600 to have any sort of justification
I don't agree, just need more games to use it but otherwise it's really good tbh, good opening from AMD and they care cuz they implemented it for 6000 series as well and I think antilag+ is next for 6000 series as well, I hope so. Nvidia don't ever listen to consumers so I was like fakk this company, I went AMD recently and Im not going back.
Well said my friend
"and they care"... Now I get why looking at the Steam hardware charts that there's a small minority that own AMD graphics cards.
@@Mcnooblet my pockets and gaming exp doesn't care who uses these cards, I love it
( using a RTX 3060 12GB )
Tested Forspoken Demo at 1440p with FSR 3 and Frame Generation and I noticed you need to limit your FPS with RTSS when Frame Gen is enabled to fix frametime pacing. It works ok but it needs more work from AMD.
Have u downloaded the lat3st preview driver they have adjusted fram pacing now with afmf and afmf supports HDR now
Oh ur on a nvidia gpu my bad
@@RCcars2023 That's ok. It's good to see AMD working on the drivers updating Fluid Motion Frames 😉
i've been using AFMF and it looks weird is what I think its a bit laggy but faster its weird compared to native
I see no problem with AMD's naming.. No one had an issue with it in 2012 when it was released for videos, no one should have issues with it now. I just want it to make a comeback in videos because it was a really nice feature before it was removed post-Vega. I'm extremely happy with FSR 3 for the most part, but more so with AFMF. I think AMD will polish things up and we'll have an even better experience soon.
"I think AMD will polish things up" bruh
FSR3 is a good step, but AFMF is garbage for how the tech work.
Unless it gets a complete revamp in the future, or it will stay unusable forever.
Tell the world you are a die hard AMD fanboy without telling us lol
@@tomorpedreiro3032they already do, bruh 🤡
@@tomtemple69 super buddy, hope they polish that before multi monitor power consumption and av1 bug with recording 😂😂
You’re kidding in your description of motion blur and frame generation serving the same role, right? Because it doesn’t fill the same role as frame generation at all. If you go read the years of complaints that people have had in regards to motion interpolation screwing up the motion blur in films or how much most people hated HFR playback for The Hobbit films (which incidentally were shot with less motion blur, even for 24 fps playback, because it was based on a 180 degree shutter for 48 fps as opposed to 24 fps).
Having been working with 3D animation since the days I had to use a 16-color 486 for raytracing in the 90s and subsequently worked operating cameras for both music videos and timelapse photography, good motion blur is one of the keys to getting a similar look to real footage (which in films is by default shot with a 180 degree shutter) and it was a massive step forward for game cinematics when it started showing up (think back to the original Metal Gear Solid) and was a huge step forward in immersion for racing games when it showed up.
Having used optical flow technology for well over a decade in regards to slowing down certain shots for music videos, I am intimately familiar with its strengths and limitations and am extremely selective about what shots I apply it to. It is NOT a useful tool in regards to imitating the look of film in games - it degrades individual frame quality compared to rendering each frame in order to add more frames, typically adding artifacts in the process (though how noticeable they are, varies).
Motion blur can help cover up flaws in the initial rendering (though people have different opinions about what “good” motion blur looks like) - frame generation tends to add them. That’s about as far away from serving the same function as you can get.
I rarely play without motion blur if I have the chance. I have multiple cards with frame generation (Nvidia and AMD alike) and I hate enabling it and never do anymore.
Optical flow has been a thing for many years in editing. Often with artifacts and ghosting. Nvidia already did some crazy stuff in this area (Speedwarp technology) - which looks leaps better with the help of AI. I'm sure that gives them an edge when figuring out it's uses in games.
the lower real frames only happens when you max out your monitor's refresh rate, but yeah I've had that happen on my 120hz tv and it was horrible! on my 240hz gaming monitor at 4K it never happens unless it's a really lite title. but something to keep aware of.
I dont get blur with fsr 3 on my lg monitor
Me too, but i'm not pausing pictures or zooming in to be able to see it!
I love HUB but the opinion's FS3 and fluid motion is just that, Opinions, It doesn't mean it sucks or Nvidia is better, Fluid motion works for those of us that really NEEDS it! If it works for you then love it and use it, I rather it than blur any day , having a older CPU but a new 7900 xtx this tech really has fixed a ton of broken unoptimized games for me, I actually play the games and not just benchmark and the tech is beautiful, I always rather real frames but a broken games a broken game and this tech fix's those games for me, use what makes sense to you, if we could all afford 4090s and xtxs like RUclipsrs then we wouldn't need this tech, always remember what's in their systems at the end of the day, odds are its not a 6800 or 4070ti
I will never care about ANY upscaling, or Ai, or frame duplication (because that’s what it is) feature. Those will never influence a gpu purchase for me. How does it perform at native resolution at native scaling and native render resolutions. That will always be the number 1 reason for purchase. VRAM and tdp being the next important.
Am I the only person, who thinks having to use any type of frame generation is really an unneeded crutch from either company? Yes, i know games harder to run and all that blah blah, Just tweak your settings. This seems to be a result of amd and nivida both stopping support of crossfire and sli, you could even offload some of the work onto another gpu. Not how physx was overhyped if anyone remembers that era. I'm talking about how dx 12 was going to let people mix amd and nvidia cards kinda like sli/crossfire but not?
Latest tech preview drivers are much better. Not perfect yet but it allows hdr and is smoother in many games
and now you can use hdr with it.
I don't care for FSR3 right now as my RX7900XTX can run anything natively on my 3440x1440 144 Hz monitor.
But in like 5 years it will be great to still play new games.
What GPU manufacturers ought to do to make everyone happy s to offer a 33% discount across the board in addition to FSR and DLSS with the option to turn these technologies on or off.
AMD should bring CrossFire back; this way we get 2x more FPS, and instead of having one FAKE frame in between the two real frames, we would have a REAL frame in between the two frames
How the fuck could FSR 3 ever be a money grab when it's a free technology thats even available to people who aren't customers of AMD?
The biggest disappointment of FSR and DLSS, is that new games are going to use it as a fix for poor optimization and neither of these solutions beat native.
I won't be surprised if the next generation of consoles use FSR, with no way to disable it.
100% the developer's fault. Don't waste your money.
New games will be
4k dlss quality (max resolution 1440p, 1080p more common) and frame gen (once the latency issue is solved) and 🤯. You have a base resolution of 1080p at 30 and the rest is ai generated.
I hate to say it but sooner than later it'll happen. Consoles will suffer a lot more than PCs.
Software is a lot more advanced than hardware and they thought, well I can fill this gap with ai. Games shouldn't rely on upscaling, rt, frame gen and stuff 😢 it's so sad
The cheapest way to make 4K graphic… use fake upscaled screens…
I mean, if they solve the input lag problem and the image quality becomes someday indistinguishable from native rendering, whether it's frame generation or upscaling, and everyone has access to theses technologies, people won't mind, native gaming won't be that important anymore, it won't be needed to have the best experience. It's like electric cars versus ICE cars, once electric cars are perfected and can do everything an ICE car can do, if what most people care about is moving from point A to B, would you really mind that it's electric if it the same at 99,99%? Sure there would still be some people that are fanatics of ICE cars because of the engine sound or the manual transmission but most people would adapt and not mind at all.
@@adridell In quite few games fake resolution dlss/fsr is noticeable, try make a screenshot with it enabled, it seem to play with a game from commodore64, all pixellated and shit (noticed this in pso ngs using a gtx1080 with disabled/enabled fsr2 or whatever it use). The only way to fix this screenshot problem is if everyone implement something like Black Desert Online were you can take 4k or 8k (I remember it had 8k too) screenshot no matter resolution you are playing with by changing that in the options. Press print > game enable screenshot settings > print a screenshot > revert back to game settings (at least it seem BDO have something like this for the resolution, I could be wrong tho). But still it wontt fix the garbage scaled resolution from native, no way in hell a dlss/fsr will be same as 4K Native. And stupid game company will abuse it with their shitty unoptimized games as a pathetic excuse.
YEHA LOL, but I LIKE whatever you say
>FSR is free
>Money grab
BRUH, RT & FSR is different
Imagine buying into marketing lies in 2023
All frame generation and upscaling techniques are worthless.
dlss is very good option any thing else not worth to use it prefer lower your settings
It's only worthless if you have anything other than rtx 4000 card.
@@faiyez have an 3000card works fine for me
I think it's hilarious looking at all the haters on AMD. One week it's AMD is amazing next week AMD is total crap 😅
All this is is another excuse for companies to release even more unoptimized games. Look at starfield literally needing upscaling just to get decent performance and if you want even more performance, you need FG tech. Immortals of Aveum is another one where the rtx 4060 needs 1080p low settings to get 60fps+.
And I wouldn't say FSR 3 FG is a big disappointment. Mostly because it supports older GPU's. Better to have the tech to play around with at least than not have it at all and having to pay for a software update, like nvidia wants you to.
Of course I agree the marketing is wrong. Its not a magic solution to boost FPS at no cost or minimal cost, like DLSS 2 or maybe even FSR 3 in some cases.
dlss3 was tested on lower end gpus and it didnt work well at all. the OFA in 20/30 series is way too slow for frame gen
@@plasmahvh Sure, OFA isn't as fast as rtx 4000. But, given that you really need an rtx 4070 to reasonably get any real benefit from FG, it ain't promising. Cause 4060ti is barely an rtx 4060. And the 4060 is a 4050ti. Already the 4060 needs to use low settings in some newer games just to achieve 60fps, which is needed for FG.
@@siyzerix i have a 4060 paired with a 7800x3d (playing esports professionally, league of legends). every single newgen game that i've tried apart from starfield (never played it) ran at 70-80 high with dlss on quality or balanced. the quality is indistinguishable on my 24 inch monitor. i completed lords of the fallen today with dlss, everything max except global illumination and reflections which are on medium.120-130+ fps with frame gen. no input latency noticeable, nothing at all. absolutely flawless. i STILL don't understand the misconception that upscaling is useless on 1080p cause it simply isn't. EVEN performance looked absolutely playable, ultra performance was pretty bad tho. and i noticed that there wasn't a big performance increase from dropping to performance from balanced. again i played with quality and had 120-130 fps at all times, perfectly smooth.
edit: i bought the 4060 exclusively for AV1 and mega low power draw (no heat) for 280 eur. mindblowing how well it performs at just 115w peak. more than satisfied with my purchase
@@plasmahvh Yeah, you need upscaling now just to run games at 1080p. Imagine what's gonna happen in the future.
Not to mention we had the 3060ti last gen pulling 1440p gaming. Now the 4060 can't do the same and is weaker?
Its a desktop, not a laptop. Low tdp doesn't matter as much.
You seem to be confusing hardware and software. FSR is software that you download. RTX is hardware, the stuff that comes in a box
Why are so many happy with it after saying fake frames suck? What happened? Are people really just allowing AMD to do the exact things Nvidia are doing and cheering? Of course they are look at the entire 7000 series line up
Its Bullshit , FSR3 FG and especially its Driver based counterpart AFMF are great to improve FPS if you already have 60 FPS native or by using upscaling to get ~ 100 -120 FPS . Hardware unboxed dont get it , no one uses Slow motion or magnification in Games to see flaws in upscaling or FG . AFMF just got HDR support , i guess the next FSR 3.1 ? update will have VRR and HDR support .
FSR 3 + FG brings my 3060 mobile in my Laptop to 100 FPS in Forspoken for f r e e . AFMF works great on my 6800 XT , Games dont have to support the Driver based Frame Generation , you can use it in all DX11/ DX12 Games , even if its make no sense to use it in competetive Games , its still a great Feature , as i wrote , i play Games and dont use Slow mition or magnification to find flaws .
FSR 3 is awesome, if it can reach your monitor max refresh rate !!!
Or you can limit your frame rate with RTSS and it will still be awesome. 😀
AMD please pay for these folks clearly Nvidia have left them for AI busniess
There are only these 2 nvidia fanboys who are dissapointed.
no VRR = Trash
Gee, another video on how you dislike FSR. We get it. You don’t like it. It’s getting tedious now.
the worst part is that it's not the same as DLSS3 frame gen and people will just get a bad experience instead
No kidding, lol.
Dlss3 is not that much better than fsr2 or fsr3 on some games at least
Frame generation is a disgrace both from GPU manufacturers who won't release actual powerful cards and from game developers, who are getting lazy and hoping FG bails them out of optimizing their games.
Fsr 3 is fine its only new u guys are legit but to hard on its early stages
I think AMD's biggest disappointment is RDNA3 where we were told it would compete with a 4090, then it at best competes with a 4080, and a 7800XT is the new RX 580 where they've managed to, in a single generation, take a pound for pound 60, 70, 80 and 90 class naming series, and revert it all the way back to the good ol' Polaris days, only AMD can be that much of a talent void, to make a mistake like that. RDNA3 is impressively, disappointing.
I mean this is expected when you move to a completely new design, they went from a monolithic die to chiplet based, just like Ryzen I think this first generation will have issues that will be ironed out in successive generations
The master of wasted opportunity
this channel super viased against amd ong
Not really. You’re super happy to support AMD!
They’re late 1 year to tech, only 2 games support FSR 3 (nobody cares), AFMF is in preview till Q1 of next year, GPU drivers are crap/outdated (where are Forca Motorsport drivers?). Get a grip AMD fanboy.
I haven’t even pointed out so many things AMD is worse at but just countering your rant.
@@zacthegamer6145 you the one going on a rant man I only pointed out they biased
they're so biased they keep recommending amd cards like the 6800 xt
lmao
Yeah FSR3 is useless for turning on RT with AMD cards because it needs a good base performance. Glad i got the 4070 Ti for 700, AMD users enjoy waiting another gen to turn on RT 😂
What? My 7900XT is laughing hard. Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty 2.01 with 3440x1440 Ultra Wide, Ultra Settings + RT Ultra, FSR2 Quality, and Frame Gen at 130fps with base 65/70fps (using latest preview driver that fixes frame pacing), so what am i really missing?
@@yeahitsme4427 He is just tryharding for Nvidia, because he owns it. But he is not smart enough to know that the 40 series is not worth the money.
Watch out, Steam hardware stats show more people bought 40 series cards than AMDs latest and that really pisses off the AMD owning minority who thinks they are smarter than everyone else. It's true people who actually own a 40 series, tend to love them. Then you have people who don't own them who think they aren't worth having (of course). These are the same people that slammed Nvidia for fake frames all year long and are now praising AMD fake frames non stop. They are the garbage gamers who spend more time on RUclips then actually playing games. Luckily stats show no one really listens to them, and they can sit on their own mentally created high horse and think they are better than everyone else. I for one am glad I can hear something other than their price 2 performance ratios and getting a few bucks off of raster, as they now have a crappy FSR3 technique to try to sell people and get them to switch. Doesn't seem to be working though.
@@Mcnooblet Nvidia is and will probably always have the bigger market share. I have nothing against it. I switched multiple times from one to another, without hesitation. Being a fanboy is the biggest mistake here.
@@Mcnoobletthe word is hyprocrites. yeah this is what I noticed. Fake frames BS etc etc now you see them embrace and love fake frames...they didn't hate frames...they hated they didn't have it. They are praising something inferior to dlss FG and saying it's good cus it's free...witcher 3 update was free but was it good with how it was implemented?? Something is not good necessarily if it's free...esp after waiting a whole year for it.
It's true you got a 4080 or 4090 your not complaining.