i have to disagree with him, my fox float X2 is infinitely harder to set up than my super deluxe ultimate and they both go on similar travel enduro bikes
I have to say you are the only person who has posted about the negative air token . Was super hard to find on their website however found it in the service manual
I'm leaving this comment not throw shade but to inform others to not cause damage to their shocks, I love that you are doing set-up pieces but I just want to chime in with some points here so people do not damage their shocks. The countermeasure spring is not an air spacer, and neither is the plastic ring. The plastic ring is there to protect the damper tube from being damaged by the spring itself. I've seen these removed and the shocks are very damaged when run without these. The spring also is there to effectively preload the shock which eliminates the breakaway of the IFP seal. From you stating you like these being removed it sounds like you would benefit from purchasing the progressive air can for this shock and running it with the countermeasure spring. The gnar dog token in the SD also has a very high chance of being bottomed out on, I cannot confirm what length this shock is but on shorter shocks it will 100% bottom out on that token as it is not intended for that shock and leave plastic debris inside the shock which is bad and offer a large knock and harsh bottom out for riders. In terms of adjustments, is this an aftermarket shock or one specific to the bike? It sounds to me like it may not be the correct shock tune for that bike. Hence why HSC may need to be all the way open as the tune may be overdamped. There are also options of rebound tunes that can provide a different ride feel as it can give the rider more usable travel whilst riding.
Thanks for comment. All valid points modifying any parts in inherently risky. I did have thoughts about the spring being a cheese grater on upper stanchion. The progressive air can is not available anywhere on earth right now, except for 67mm stroke shocks. Hints why I pulled spring out. It’s off the shelf SD. The bike came with a SD and then I had it tuned again and the performance barely increased. The new shock is 10% better. Just not the right shock shock for more than 150mm travel. Shock is 230x65 nothing says old tokens can or can’t work on new shock, just says up to 4 tokens that’s it. Nothing about no nar dog. HSC and LSC choking the up the suspension is valid for the Zeb, Vivid, and SD. Compression only works in the smallest amounts- average rider ability
@@OtterMTBtech I wouldn't say that it is travel dependent on not right, I had a Super Deluxe in my nomad at 170mm travel in the same length and it was perfect for what I was after, but it did require the High speed shim stack to be at the progressive tune and the compression to be a medium tune. Hence why I ask about the tune of the shock as opposed to setting it up is all. The manual does state this for the shock regarding tokens just as a FYI "2023+ (C1) Super Deluxe Select R, Super Deluxe Select+ RT, Super Deluxe Ultimate RC2T, Super Deluxe Ultimate RC2T AirWiz, and Super Deluxe DH RC2 - only purple Bottomless Tokens are compatible"
Bro I took my SD to a reputable Suspension, Repair shop and they didn’t have a clue what tune was in it and what they could do to fix it. The shim kits are mysterious to me and them. Found the kits , but just vague little descriptions next to them. So you are well ahead of the pack. They offered me a $400 Vorsprung tune on a shock worth $150 used. I just asked for slower rebound and they took a shim out for $250. Not worth it
The tune that is in the shock is an easy one to find, the tune is actually printed on the shock head. So from what I cna make out on the video it says LNL which is above or below the serial number. if it is a 'LNL' that's Linear Rebound (LN) and L (light compression) so if you need softer then an L1 would be the tune down from the L (those tune names are in the guide that I've linked below). Tunes can be a hard one, as the bicycle manufacturer will be the one who recommends which tune will go into what for their kinematic. With the Super Deluxe for the nomad, I based this off of the tune that came in the Super Deluxe Coil that was fitted in the bike. The Levo shock for my Vivid has a R25, C30 which is a Progressive Rebound tune and a Lighter Compression tune (it's the second softest). I would say (and this is purely guessing based off of other bikes and what you've said you've felt) is that a Progressive Rebound tune with a L1 Compression tune would benefit your the set up for the bike kinematic, that's based off of what i've got in my Vivid shock. Tuning guide can be found here: www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/tuning-manuals/rockshox-rear-shock-piston-tuning-guide.pdf @@OtterMTBtech
Thanks, way over my head, but I’ll dig into that. My bike is Kenevo is a just a Enduro with a extra 25 lbs of mass, unfortunately they don’t share a shock. I guess I could just copy the tune code.
Just got my fezzari la sal peak. Came with the Zeb with buttercups up front and rs deluxe ultimate with hydraulic bump in the rear. I think both the Zeb and the ultimate are highly sensitive to a simple click one direction or the other. Still setting it up but way more sensitive then I imagined
Maybe when you have some more funds, you could do a comparison of the MRP Lift on a ZEB vs a Charger 2/2.1/3 etc .. i only have the select model as it came on the bike but i like the Lift damper.
Oh man, I’m so glad I found your channel. I’m using almost all the suspension parts you have been dissecting (Zeb and super deluxe ultimate and Fox float. Also have the 2021 super deluxe coil ult.). I just got the 2023 super deluxe air shock on my evil wreckoning and can’t get it to work right. Off the top is not too bad but it blows through the mid support then feels harsh towards the end of the travel. So far the so called hydraulic bottom out is non existent. I also have a long travel out back (166mm) and only using 75-80% travel in my local trails, which are pretty mellow, so that’s ok. I’m going to run the compressions wide open. I’m running pressure and rebound very close to what the app recommends (225 psi and -7 rebound). Do you recommend adding tokens to get more mid stroke support? TIA. 🤟🏼
I don’t know the leverage curve of that bike or your weight. If you can get the progressive air can, it becomes such a great shock. It doesn’t work as well if you’re heavy or the bikes progressively tuned. Sounds a like it’s not
With a 23 zeb ultamate fork on the turbo kenevo do you like the vivid over a coil like say the db kitsuma with a progressive spring? Thoughts? Cheers 🍻
I have yet to ride a coil, but I would go with coil. Cane creek gave me go ahead on new Kitsuma with 9.5mm stanchion. I would double check with specialized support for compatibility, the bike chews up shock with long yoke. Vivid rubs the frame, the stock c1 Vivid rebound tune barely works( to fast) on Kenevo. I didn’t get the Cane Creek, because it’s less common less video interest I suspect. I have old double barrel air, and it works awesome on the bike
@@OtterMTBtech nice a new one with bigger 9.5 stans sounds awesome. I had gotten the c.c. Kit.d.b coil after watching your video on the air version, they had a sale a few months back for almost a few hundred off couldn't pass it up. Slapped it on the turbo kenevo and It hasn't broke on me yet. Actually been very nice and plush. I put a 500 to 610lb spring on it as im 215 with my stuff on, I ride out at the uc santa cruz mostly. But for some reason i always see ppl riding air cans out there shredding and it gets that itch going to try something different 😩 lol. I love your videos man. They are really helpful especially with the set up ones you have done for hsc lsc and rebound took me from constantly scratching my head to understanding the idea of how it should work with the way your able to explain this stuff easily put. Thanks for the time Brotha 🍻. Looking forward to the nex vids 🤟🏽
Thanks for comment, facing major burnout. That DB is really hard nut to crack with no clicks. I rode the flow trail above UC santa Cruz. Didnt make it down there@@JoJo-yr6io
The coil version is allot better of shock. More or less the same order, but a faster rebound can be used. Use the hydraulic bottom out first before any the high speed compression. The compression circuits choke up the shock. Not saying don’t use them, just sparingly
It left some scratches after a few months, bad idea, first comment . The only thing you can do officially to get better performance is get a progressive air can
Have you tried putting on a can of Megneg? There is information on one of the groups that everything fits :) Did the Progressive can arrive from Ukraine? Thanks
Yeah finally came in. Now my email is full of Ukrainian mail order brides no joke. It’s an awesome upgrade. Shock feels great easy to setup. I have to run a whopping 330 psi, so I doubt the meg neg can’s massive chamber would work well unless you can get the bands in it.
I think you just need to learn some more basics on how suspension work, particularly on how negative and positive chamber's size influence the shock response. Also be careful of the tune in that SD, basically if you don't have the right tune the for your bike the shock is inevitably going to work bad. I get that it was a frustrating experience for you, but it isn't an excuse for providing incorrect setup advice, especially if you're not following the manual
This is the best video resource for setting up the SD. Modifying the suspension from the book is sketchy you are correct. Tuning a shock is like makeup it’s just covering up the ugly parts . A good shock like the float X needs no tune. Negative tokens makes the shock ride better on aggressive terrain like stated, larger negative makes a more plush ride.
Last time i check the 2023 RS SDU air linear aircan if you put the specific negative token, what will happen is that the top initial stroke will be firmer but more linear on the mid stroke like a coil, i lost interest with the coil after finding out there's an air shock like the RS 2023 that can be almost as linear as coil but more tunable, but the one with Prog air can is what i prefer for aggresive plus playful ride.
The progressive air can is identical to the meg neg . Negative token installed Will make a more supportive mid stroke harder to depress into the travel so essentially killing small bump sensitivity. Need to know is it makes aggressive riding better and it helps lower the air pressure down so therefore it's good for heavy guys too. I just tested for progressive can 320 Psi Way more plush @@jaysealenduro5618
"a good shock like the float x doesnt need a tune"? Sorry, but this is completly wrong. There are also a lot of general statements in the video, that arent true either.
huh.... you just said "aid more air to your shocks" and then "it doesnt have much small bump sensitivity." those two statements conflict. you need to run a lower pressure, higher progression, and use dampening to control it.
The damping is primitive. The hsc has massive cross talk and kills small bump like max turned on lsc. The shock only does 3 small tokens. The hydrolic bottom out is the best option and this one doesn’t have it. Small air pressure adjustment is what I said in video. Final note the progressive air can aka meg neg fixed most of the issues on this shock.
![Lil Uzi Vert - Chill Bae [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D7F42F_JM3U/mqdefault.jpg)
Please don’t modify your shock unless you accept the risks of ruining your shock.
You say the hardest to get perfectly dialed, but everywhere else I hear it's so much easier than a Fox. Set up is simple.
i have to disagree with him, my fox float X2 is infinitely harder to set up than my super deluxe ultimate and they both go on similar travel enduro bikes
Advanced Suspension Setup MADE EASY
ruclips.net/video/hKTcgYAW-sQ/видео.html
I have to say you are the only person who has posted about the negative air token . Was super hard to find on their website however found it in the service manual
I'm leaving this comment not throw shade but to inform others to not cause damage to their shocks, I love that you are doing set-up pieces but I just want to chime in with some points here so people do not damage their shocks. The countermeasure spring is not an air spacer, and neither is the plastic ring. The plastic ring is there to protect the damper tube from being damaged by the spring itself. I've seen these removed and the shocks are very damaged when run without these. The spring also is there to effectively preload the shock which eliminates the breakaway of the IFP seal. From you stating you like these being removed it sounds like you would benefit from purchasing the progressive air can for this shock and running it with the countermeasure spring.
The gnar dog token in the SD also has a very high chance of being bottomed out on, I cannot confirm what length this shock is but on shorter shocks it will 100% bottom out on that token as it is not intended for that shock and leave plastic debris inside the shock which is bad and offer a large knock and harsh bottom out for riders.
In terms of adjustments, is this an aftermarket shock or one specific to the bike? It sounds to me like it may not be the correct shock tune for that bike. Hence why HSC may need to be all the way open as the tune may be overdamped. There are also options of rebound tunes that can provide a different ride feel as it can give the rider more usable travel whilst riding.
Thanks for comment. All valid points modifying any parts in inherently risky. I did have thoughts about the spring being a cheese grater on upper stanchion.
The progressive air can is not available anywhere on earth right now, except for 67mm stroke shocks. Hints why I pulled spring out.
It’s off the shelf SD. The bike came with a SD and then I had it tuned again and the performance barely increased. The new shock is 10% better. Just not the right shock
shock for more than 150mm travel.
Shock is 230x65 nothing says old tokens can or can’t work on new shock, just says up to 4 tokens that’s it. Nothing about no nar dog.
HSC and LSC choking the up the suspension is valid for the Zeb, Vivid, and SD. Compression only works in the smallest amounts- average rider ability
@@OtterMTBtech I wouldn't say that it is travel dependent on not right, I had a Super Deluxe in my nomad at 170mm travel in the same length and it was perfect for what I was after, but it did require the High speed shim stack to be at the progressive tune and the compression to be a medium tune. Hence why I ask about the tune of the shock as opposed to setting it up is all.
The manual does state this for the shock regarding tokens just as a FYI "2023+ (C1) Super Deluxe Select R, Super Deluxe Select+ RT,
Super Deluxe Ultimate RC2T, Super Deluxe Ultimate RC2T AirWiz, and Super Deluxe DH RC2 - only purple Bottomless Tokens are compatible"
Bro I took my SD to a reputable Suspension, Repair shop and they didn’t have a clue what tune was in it and what they could do to fix it. The shim kits are mysterious to me and them. Found the kits , but just vague little descriptions next to them. So you are well ahead of the pack. They offered me a $400 Vorsprung tune on a shock worth $150 used.
I just asked for slower rebound and they took a shim out for $250. Not worth it
The tune that is in the shock is an easy one to find, the tune is actually printed on the shock head. So from what I cna make out on the video it says LNL which is above or below the serial number. if it is a 'LNL' that's Linear Rebound (LN) and L (light compression) so if you need softer then an L1 would be the tune down from the L (those tune names are in the guide that I've linked below).
Tunes can be a hard one, as the bicycle manufacturer will be the one who recommends which tune will go into what for their kinematic. With the Super Deluxe for the nomad, I based this off of the tune that came in the Super Deluxe Coil that was fitted in the bike. The Levo shock for my Vivid has a R25, C30 which is a Progressive Rebound tune and a Lighter Compression tune (it's the second softest). I would say (and this is purely guessing based off of other bikes and what you've said you've felt) is that a Progressive Rebound tune with a L1 Compression tune would benefit your the set up for the bike kinematic, that's based off of what i've got in my Vivid shock.
Tuning guide can be found here: www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/tuning-manuals/rockshox-rear-shock-piston-tuning-guide.pdf
@@OtterMTBtech
Thanks, way over my head, but I’ll dig into that. My bike is Kenevo is a just a Enduro with a extra 25 lbs of mass, unfortunately they don’t share a shock. I guess I could just copy the tune code.
Just got my fezzari la sal peak. Came with the Zeb with buttercups up front and rs deluxe ultimate with hydraulic bump in the rear. I think both the Zeb and the ultimate are highly sensitive to a simple click one direction or the other. Still setting it up but way more sensitive then I imagined
Totally agree. If you can get progressive air can, it’s the best option
What is your feeling - 2023 Super Deluxe Ultimate vs 2023 Vivid Ultimate?
Vivid all the way is more more plush. Super deluxe maybe on shorter travel.
Maybe when you have some more funds, you could do a comparison of the MRP Lift on a ZEB vs a Charger 2/2.1/3 etc .. i only have the select model as it came on the bike but i like the Lift damper.
Damper upgrades are $400. Charger 3 Zeb is $600. You need to look at this, before considering
You sure that is a spacer and not something to protect the shaft from the spring?
That is possible, but the spacers only covers 1/4 of the spring
Please do not remove it, it is there to protect the damper body
Yikes running the metal negative spring without the plastic spacer is going to equal carnage on the stanchion. 9:30
just wanted to try it with bigger negative chamber
Oh man, I’m so glad I found your channel. I’m using almost all the suspension parts you have been dissecting (Zeb and super deluxe ultimate and Fox float. Also have the 2021 super deluxe coil ult.). I just got the 2023 super deluxe air shock on my evil wreckoning and can’t get it to work right. Off the top is not too bad but it blows through the mid support then feels harsh towards the end of the travel. So far the so called hydraulic bottom out is non existent. I also have a long travel out back (166mm) and only using 75-80% travel in my local trails, which are pretty mellow, so that’s ok. I’m going to run the compressions wide open. I’m running pressure and rebound very close to what the app recommends (225 psi and -7 rebound). Do you recommend adding tokens to get more mid stroke support? TIA. 🤟🏼
I don’t know the leverage curve of that bike or your weight. If you can get the progressive air can, it becomes such a great shock. It doesn’t work as well if you’re heavy or the bikes progressively tuned. Sounds a like it’s not
I rammed more tokens than specified it helped, but don’t recommend doing that might blow shock up
@@OtterMTBtech thanks for the recommendations. 🤟🏼
Super informative.
😎
With a 23 zeb ultamate fork on the turbo kenevo do you like the vivid over a coil like say the db kitsuma with a progressive spring? Thoughts? Cheers 🍻
I have yet to ride a coil, but I would go with coil. Cane creek gave me go ahead on new Kitsuma with 9.5mm stanchion.
I would double check with specialized support for compatibility, the bike chews up shock with long yoke.
Vivid rubs the frame, the stock c1 Vivid rebound tune barely works( to fast) on Kenevo.
I didn’t get the Cane Creek, because it’s less common less video interest I suspect.
I have old double barrel air, and it works awesome on the bike
@@OtterMTBtech nice a new one with bigger 9.5 stans sounds awesome. I had gotten the c.c. Kit.d.b coil after watching your video on the air version, they had a sale a few months back for almost a few hundred off couldn't pass it up. Slapped it on the turbo kenevo and It hasn't broke on me yet. Actually been very nice and plush. I put a 500 to 610lb spring on it as im 215 with my stuff on, I ride out at the uc santa cruz mostly. But for some reason i always see ppl riding air cans out there shredding and it gets that itch going to try something different 😩 lol. I love your videos man. They are really helpful especially with the set up ones you have done for hsc lsc and rebound took me from constantly scratching my head to understanding the idea of how it should work with the way your able to explain this stuff easily put. Thanks for the time Brotha 🍻. Looking forward to the nex vids 🤟🏽
Thanks for comment, facing major burnout. That DB is really hard nut to crack with no clicks. I rode the flow trail above UC santa Cruz. Didnt make it down there@@JoJo-yr6io
do you feel like your way of setting up a 2023 rssd transfers to the same shock but as a coil shock?
The coil version is allot better of shock. More or less the same order, but a faster rebound can be used. Use the hydraulic bottom out first before any the high speed compression. The compression circuits choke up the shock. Not saying don’t use them, just sparingly
Rockshox does not communicate any information about the token in the countermeasures. Are you sure we can remove it without damaging anything?
It left some scratches after a few months, bad idea, first comment . The only thing you can do officially to get better performance is get a progressive air can
@@OtterMTBtechand who is the best, New vivid air superdeluxe ?
Super deluxe is pretty awful. Coil best
@@OtterMTBtech sorry that's not what I meant. Which is the best rear shock absorber between the new Vivid air and the new superdeluxe air?
Super deluxe coil, Vivid then Super deluxe
So, why would you not just get the basic model without LSC/HSC and spend the money you save on a shim tune to your weight?
That is a waste of money
Have you tried putting on a can of Megneg?
There is information on one of the groups that everything fits :)
Did the Progressive can arrive from Ukraine?
Thanks
Yeah finally came in. Now my email is full of Ukrainian mail order brides no joke. It’s an awesome upgrade. Shock feels great easy to setup. I have to run a whopping 330 psi, so I doubt the meg neg can’s massive chamber would work well unless you can get the bands in it.
I think you just need to learn some more basics on how suspension work, particularly on how negative and positive chamber's size influence the shock response.
Also be careful of the tune in that SD, basically if you don't have the right tune the for your bike the shock is inevitably going to work bad.
I get that it was a frustrating experience for you, but it isn't an excuse for providing incorrect setup advice, especially if you're not following the manual
This is the best video resource for setting up the SD. Modifying the suspension from the book is sketchy you are correct. Tuning a shock is like makeup it’s just covering up the ugly parts . A good shock like the float X needs no tune.
Negative tokens makes the shock ride better on aggressive terrain like stated, larger negative makes a more plush ride.
Last time i check the 2023 RS SDU air linear aircan if you put the specific negative token, what will happen is that the top initial stroke will be firmer but more linear on the mid stroke like a coil, i lost interest with the coil after finding out there's an air shock like the RS 2023 that can be almost as linear as coil but more tunable, but the one with Prog air can is what i prefer for aggresive plus playful ride.
The progressive air can is identical to the meg neg . Negative token installed Will make a more supportive mid stroke harder to depress into the travel so essentially killing small bump sensitivity. Need to know is it makes aggressive riding better and it helps lower the air pressure down so therefore it's good for heavy guys too. I just tested for progressive can 320 Psi Way more plush @@jaysealenduro5618
"a good shock like the float x doesnt need a tune"?
Sorry, but this is completly wrong. There are also a lot of general statements in the video, that arent true either.
I would rather it take big impacts than be supple
huh.... you just said "aid more air to your shocks" and then "it doesnt have much small bump sensitivity." those two statements conflict. you need to run a lower pressure, higher progression, and use dampening to control it.
The damping is primitive. The hsc has massive cross talk and kills small bump like max turned on lsc. The shock only does 3 small tokens.
The hydrolic bottom out is the best option and this one doesn’t have it.
Small air pressure adjustment is what I said in video.
Final note the progressive air can aka meg neg fixed most of the issues on this shock.