It would be great to have someone from Palestinian side. There is heavy Jewish representation in US media. If you really want have a deep, informed perspective having a Palestinian representation is a must
Modern Palestinians do not know their history - you should invite Mr.Arafat, Hitler or the Kremlin Frankensteins who invented this legend about ancient Khanaanite heroes
@@1000свольдер maybe they can read how many times the UN has asked for a peaceful settlement which Israel voted against. Maybe they might ask where are the rape victims ......the women who could come forward and say they were raped by Hamas or the forensic evidence
never going to happen. I read an article in NYT about Hamas 'brutal tactics' and the sources were 1 palestinian guy that does not like Hamas and 'U.S. intelligence officials'. I did a lookup once and only mention of Human Rights Watch was when they were critical of Hamas. I'm beginning to think NYT doesn't like Hamas.
I am Irish and really disgusted with what is going on and feel a great sorrow for the ordinary people of Gasa, Lebanon and Israel. I have become very suspicious of mainstream media and what is mostly biased reporting. This conversation gave me additional perspectives that felt genuine ❤
This is a sham like the rest of the NEW York (CRIMES) reporting on Palestine & Palestinians! This DAVID REMNICK is the male Version of HILLARY CLINTON. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD OF A PALESTINIAN ATTACK? it’s the other way around’. Don’t listen or read fake news! Turn to independent journalism. Max Blumenthal. Democracy now, Breaking points, electronic intifada, etc. Israel killed 178 Journalists in less than 11 mos period! More than the 20 yrs Vietnam war!
This is a sham like the rest of the NEW York (CRIMES) reporting on Palestine & Palestinians! This DAVID REMNICK is the male Version of HILLARY CLINTON. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD OF A PALESTINIAN ATTACK? it’s the other way around’. Don’t listen or read fake news! Turn to independent journalism. Max Blumenthal. Democracy now, Breaking points, electronic intifada, etc. Israel killed 178 Journalists in less than 11 mos period! More than the 20 yrs Vietnam war!
Interesting podcast. I would have liked to listen more about the way Palestiniens feel and understand the history of this conflict since the creation of the state of Israel.
Os palestinos foram os menos consultados desde o começo da resolução de l’ONU ..! Ninguém quer saber e se incomodar com eles ..! O que rola o tempo todo é só lobby e interesses de nações..imperialistas ..! Vamos falar a verdade ! E US também ..não está nem aí com Israel .. Mas enquanto US tem a ganhar em .. Middle East eles jogam o jogo é lógico !!
@@lupen_rein I will, thank you, but I won't go into that high hopes. I see a difference in those who try to straddle the fence between loyalty to a fascist state while seeming to feel sad about mass starvation and murder of civilians. This problem won't be fixed once Netanyahu is replaced, this genocidal action that Israel is engaged in is seen by many Jews as an existential necessity. That is madness defined.
@@raincadeify Netaniahu was chosen democratically, and as you well said, any other democratically elected would do almost the same because there is no other way in a war to destruct your enemy as was done by the US, UK and other countries and you are in complete silence which is to be complicit on your side. About genocide, where is it? If Israel would do a genocide why does not do it? The Palestinian population in Gaza is still the same. the casualties are mostly terrorists and less than 1% of its population.
A request for interviews like this... could you date the interview in the info section? It would save us trying to work out when its recorded in the context on ongoing events (in this case the escalation with Hezbollah)
It’s not complicated. Is… and the west want the ME they want the land in Gaza and the West Bank, and beyond, but don’t want the people on it. They squeeze said people until they retaliate then call them sav… This is the formula the west has used across the globe.
They want the land, and not the indigenous people on the land. They want regional hegemony over all of the resources, cheap labor, etc across the ME. Modus operandi of western col… it’s why Is… was founded-no different than Massachusetts Bay in the 1700s. Netanyahu even as far as to quote the speech the governor from Massachusetts Bay gave prior to his geno of the Wampanoags.
Thank you for one of the most astute and informative conversations I’ve heard on the Palestinian-Israeli quagmire in a very long time. We need more conversations on all levels.
Go ahead find someone who will speak freely about Hamas. Many live in fear of their lives. When you got youngsters shouting "we are hamas" do you think you can have a conversation with them who support a terror group.
This is one of the most informative podcast I listen to about this conflict. These guys have biases everyone does, but their smart enough to know that.
Sinwar is a “religious kid”? How stupid is that. He headed the tunnels, the rockets, the pure hatred, Oct 7, the hostages, the demands for terrorists held in Israel to be released to do more damage to Israel. Not hard to understand that he only understands hate and power. He has to be stopped.
Easy to forget in all the noise of the internet that this level of nuance and balance is, at the least, a small majority in the west. Otherwise the establishment/s wouldn’t have the positions they do. One small sliver of hope.
Hi NYT. Do you feel like now issuing a correction to your assertion from last October that "What Israel is fighting to defend is a society that values human life and the rule of law" or will you need more time (i..e more Palestinian death) for a reappraisal of that claim? Or perhaps it is your contention that "more than 40,000 Palestinians in Gaza are dead" having expired as an unfortunate consequence of old age?
This figure was given by Hamas, and includes their own. Having said that, what does a figure, alone, tell you about who's guilty of what? To illustrate, let's take a hostage situation, where a bank robber kills a hostage, and takes 10 others. When SWAT arrives, a gunfight ensues, and 3 people, possibly including the suspect himself are killed. Without any further knowledge, how do you decide who's guilty of what? In a situation where the suspect is killed along with 2 hostages, not including the first one, are killed by SWAT, in their attempt to stop the armed suspect. Who is ultimately responsible for people getting killed?
Blame hamas as they hide like cowards in tunnels under civilian infrastructure. So according to you, no hamas terrorists were killed in the war only innocent civilians. That’s extremely gullible. These numbers also do not account for how many were killed by hamas and other terrorist groups misfired rockets. You are using hamas numbers that do not account for many factors. This is the first war in history that reports numbers on a daily basis. Most wars it takes years to understand the full extent of civilian deaths. The Russian Ukraine war best estimate is about 1 million people killed or injured. The Sudan war the numbers are all over the place. But no one cares about tjose brutal wars as it doesn't involve Israel.
@evamurray2564 we're talking about around 1200 people dead on one side and 40000 on the other (a number that hasn't been updated in many months). Gaza has been basically leveled. Are you seriously trying to draw an equivalency or draw into question who is wrong here? The answer is obvious. Israel has gone well beyond proportional response a long time ago.
@ryno4ever433 you are viewing war as if it's a numbers game. Using your logic, Israel's response should have been the same as hamas, which is to commit atrocities and take 250 hostages then call it quits. BTW, the 40 000 are hamas numbers and have been updated continually. When was the last time you heard any updates on the Sudan war, the Syrian civil war, the Ukraine Russia war? Also why is it that hamas supporters never acknowledge that the numbers reported never include hamas terrorists or the number killed by the terrorists misfired rockets that explode in Gaza.
Good God- no agency ascribed to Palestinians. How about their refusal to accept a state time after time? How about never teaching towards co-existence? Palestinians society has NEVER accepted a two a state solution. They have always wanted it all to themselves. David and Ezra are two American Jews who just don't get the cruel realities of the Middle East.
Excellent conversation. Only issue ignored: the unconditional and free supply of American weaponry, without which the situation would be completely different. To which I might add: the complete ignoring of American Palestinians, both by Harris in her campaign rallies in Michigan, and by Democrats in the Senate hearing a few days ago.
Thanks! You just saved me 70 minutes of my day. If this is the "only issue ignored" then this conversation has as much value as a discussion about fire-fighting that refuses to mention the merits of water.
@@robertmusil5831 They acknowledge it, they just talk about what is rather than engaging in hypotheticals. If you want to know the impact of American weapons on the situation you should listen to some military expert. It's not his area of expertise. How would he ever know what the impact would be of an arms embargo and whether there are supply alternatives or there aren't.
I lived in Israel and just recently spent two months there. This was a good conversation, but it doesn't begin to scratch the surface of all the different realities. As much as both of you have spent time in Israel, you don't know the reality of actually living in the place and facing all the challenges.
Bring Palestinian american to give their side of the story. You have Khalid rashidi, noura erakat, mouin rabbani. We need to hear both sides of the conflict.
Introduction and Overview of the Current Situation (00:00) Who is Yahya Sinwar? Background and Influence (01:24) Life in Israeli Prison and Learning About Israeli Society (03:42) Sinwar's Hostage Negotiations and Release (08:17) Hezbollah and the Northern Border Situation (16:37) American Influence and Biden's Cautionary Approach (20:12) Potential for a Broader Conflict with Lebanon (21:24) Israeli Politics and Netanyahu's Grip on Power (28:17) Naftali Bennett: The Next Potential Prime Minister? (50:41) Discussion on Religious Nationalism and Political Shifts (51:00) American-Israeli Relations and Future Generational Shifts (58:24) Conclusion: Reflecting on Possible Future Outcomes (1:04:43)
Sad to hear my own equally dismal but sketchily informed prognosis eerily reflected in this conversation. I need to go spend some time with some toddlers. They know better.
The purpose of the establishment of the state of Israel was to provide a safe place for Jews. By that standard the project of establishing a state for Jews is, after 75 years, a failure.
Just as well they didnt go to Madagascar or Uganda as was suggested at some point, then again Ugandans or Madagascans probably would not have been lobbing 🚀 decades later . When the Britishers retreated from their co lonial projects after slicing the continent like a pizza well into the 60s and 70s
@@supernova7848 Jews live in Jewdea for the last 3300 years, Jews have their history in Jewdea, follow the culture of Judea, language of Judea and religion of Judea. Arabs follow the culture of Arabia, language of Arabia and religion of Arabia. Jews - Judea. Arabs - Arabia.
The number of casualties of the Arab Israeli conflict all sides combined over 100 years is not even in the top 50 list, despite being falsely presented as #1conflict by the media (Gues why), Egyptian soldiers being the largest group of casualties then Israeli soldiers then Syrian soldiers.
Interesting discussion from a Western media perspective. It would be more valuable if a Palestinian voice were included. Because David Remnick isn't without his own biases in supporting Israel.
Thank you, Ezra. Remnick seems to have a deep, even more than academic understanding of the situation, but, thankfully, you, Ezra, kept bringing him back to the immediate, revolting situation the Palestinians are in. Your focus was impressive, to say the least It is not hard to imagine what the Israeli policies/strategies can/will lead to. And if American policies change at all, Netanyu will have led Israel into a dire, even tragic situation. Revenge is overrated - but most people don't know that.
Netanyahu capitulated to public pressure when he agreed to release prisoners for a single hostage. He has learned from his mistake but the pubic seems to have forgotten that a hostage deal ensures more hostages will be taken.
Why in a beginning of this conversation no one bother to mentioned that this Hamas leader not only learned language in prison but also was cured of brain cancer, while in an Israeli prison. The actual mastermind behind the October 7th attacks was someone whose life had been saved by a Jewish oncologist.
What's your point? In most parts of the world a doctor would save a patient no matter what race or political persuasion. The fact you point out proof of humane treatment of Palestinians by Israeli DOCTORS says what your base expectation is, doesn't it? I'm saying that's a low bar you have for Israelis.
War is chaos, Ezra. It is not a neatly planned and executed production like your podcast. There is not some over-arcing tidy story line with a clear outcome.
absolute nonviolence is not a requirement of Judaism, the religion so sharply restricts the use of violence, that nonviolence often becomes the only way to fulfilling a life of truth, justice and peace, which Judaism considers to be the three tools for the preservation of the world.
The NY slimes employing figures for those KIA that the UN has debunked? "In June, The Wall Street Journal reported that trying to maximize civilian casualties has been part of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar’s “brutal calculation” on how to win the war. Sinwar spoke clearly about how he saw his strategy of putting civilians in danger for the cause of destroying Israel: “These are necessary sacrifices,” he said."
Israeli lives are no more valuable than Palestinian lives. i am so frustrated that everyone talks about the hostages while israel kills more innocent palestinian babies than all the hostages combined. There is no sympathy left for Israel. I used to be a Zionist, but after the genocide started you read more about the history and you come back to the central question, why can't everyone live together in a shared democracy with a division between church and state? Listen to the answers Zionists say in response to that question and you can really understand how radically right wing these people are. Palestinians and Jews already live and work side by side, the system we have now is just apartheid.
Does Hamas want a two state solution? Edit: I don't want my comment to sound to biased. I don't think either far right government of Israel or Palestine wants any solution other than the destruction of the other state and it's people
where is there a functioning secular democracy in the middle east that protects ethnic and religious minorities? muslims are slaughtering other religious groups (and even other muslims) all over africa and the middle east and no one talks about it. Israel is the only nation ever in the news. Stop projecting your western perspective on arab muslims who don't want to live in that way. it's basically thought colonialism. Palestinian leadership is either arab nationalist or islamofascist, and the jews don't want to live under their rule. fundamentally different cultures shouldn't have to live together. it would just be civil war as brutal as we've seen in the rest of MENA. they need to accept the 2 state solution (one they could have had in 1948 with even more land had the arab league not declared war on the fledgling jewish state) or leave for other arab nations a few miles away.
They already live in a shared democracy with separation between church and state, it's called Israel. Palestinians can start their own democracy with separation between church and state if they like, why are you against that?
@@geraldvaughan5103 colonizers are the ones who think Bethlehem, Scheme, Hebron, and Jericho are somehow their “indigenous” cities lol. Israel is very much like the Spanish reconquista where the Spanish took their country back from the Arab muslims that colonized them. For Spain it took them 700 years of struggle, and for Israel it was cooking for a long time and when the opportunity came we did it and returned from exile 🙏❤️🇮🇱
@@Eran_Haim what the cap are you on about reconquista? The problem is some people with a 2000 year old belief based claim, and supported by the powers that be (awful colonialist people as well), turned up at our home and violently expelled us, and have been god awful to us since. Those people that did that to us, don’t understand why we hate their guts and why we would fight back, even with our lives, just to give them a bloody nose, if nothing else. Those perpetrators have the audacity to play victim, and and their backers would stop at nothing to support them. Just a cluster truck of dishonour on every level They’re trying to push some narrative that we’re Saudi or some c rap like that, I’M A CHRISTIAN FROM HAIFA FOR GODS SAKE, HOW CAN I BE SAUDI TOU DUMB…… I’m a Palestinian and I speak Arab, and you will not erase me you cowards That’s the bottom line, history, religion, politics have nothing to do here.
Jews live in Jewdea for the last 3300 years, Jews have their history in Jewdea, follow the culture of Judea, language of Judea and religion of Judea. Arabs follow the culture of Arabia, language of Arabia and religion of Arabia. Jews - Judea. Arabs - Arabia.
I hope Ezra reads the comments. Ezra, I have been following politics for many, many years; yet, I have no idea how polling works. A New York Times poll just came out that shows quite different results from the NBC poll of just a few days ago. I wonder if you have considered (or maybe you have already?) having a polling expert on to explain how the polls are done. For example, in the current race, how does the polling try to reflect a possible increase in young voters? Do they go onto college campuses? We suspect they don't answer phone calls. Thanks. And not to be self-serving, I think you're the best interviewer I have heard. Your work on the Israeli-Hamas et al conflict is a good example.
Fantastic piece! I have wondered - why doesn’t the US Democratic Party ticket, KH/TW, delineate between support for Israel while condemningBibi Netanyahu. Genuinely want to understand, Ezra.
Ezra Klein and David Remnick conversation shows the binary way of thought they have, for them left is all good and right is all wrong, the good and the bad, then they do not criticize the left under any circumstances. I always though on the center left, but 7/10 changed completely my views, and I do not credit the left nor the right for they wrong views. The 7/10 should have have to change some views of those intellectuals too, instead, they are insisting and not adjusting to their new reality.
Bennet may be religious but he is a liberal. He was in a government with the muslim brotherhood part, he knows how to work with everyone. He is liberal and I tell you this as Israeli.
Stephen Daedalus (aka James Joyce): "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awaken." On the other hand: "...to sleep, to sleep perchance to dream..."
As an Israeli liberal, I am not sure what are the US real geostrategic interests. On that one hand I would welcome a clear and decisive policy towards a two-state solution which looks like an authentic US interest. On the other hand, it seems as if for the US Israel is first and foremost a US military base, or just a non-Arab allay in the middle east, that the US don't really care about Israel's exact liberal or democratic values, but more on its exclusive reliance on US support.
You understand US policy better than most. The US wants clients for its military-industrial complex. If you understand this, then US policy in the Middle East and Ukraine starts to make sense.
If you want a clear two state policy, you won't get it. Israel's conflicts have been uniquely detrimental to the post WWII order, but the US voter knows more about when Israel's in danger than about its policies and US politicians respond accordingly. All that matters is that Israel is safe. Two state, one state, democratic values, who cares.
You see the US doesn't view Israel as an ally, it's just inherently nice that Israel exists. There is no economic, military, or strategic interest in Israel. Israel actually acts counter to all of those interests: Israel is a competing tech hub, it hurts US relations with the Saudis, and isn't standing with the US on Ukraine or much during 9/11. Maybe there's a red line somewhere, but consider that the US fork over all sorts of money or will stand with Israel against literally everyone else in the world and expect nothing in return. Edit: Ah, Ezra brings this up at 1:06:02 but US & Biden's support of Israel was a signal of being anti-Nazi and anti-USSR atheism post WWII, but in the future the US may need a reason to support Israel.
@@ehsanakbari3185 "clients for its military-industrial complex" - can you explain this further? the US is supplying the money, weapons etc so how does the US benefit? US is loosing money being a part of these wars. Would love your insight to better understand this notion.
I think, first and foremost, the US is dealing with a duly elected leader, Netanyahu. Contrary to what Netanyahu has done, the US supports the leader who is legitimately in power in Israel - pretty much, no matter what. A reasonably stable situation benefits the US as it does all commerical concerns. The US has, and will, support Netanyahu until the Israeli people change leaders - count on it. ( The only question I have is, "How destabilizing can Netanyahu become in the Middle East before the US begins to exert real power to restrain him?) But, at this point, it's getting reasonable to think deals have been made with major arab states to allow Israel to take the reputational hit for "cleaning the gangs out of the neighborhood.") The Gulf War gave the US a larger footprint in the Middle East. Israel is now not the only one. Times are a'changin' - Originally, the US and the world were appalled by the treatment the Jews had endured in WWII Germany, (to say nothing of, "What do we do with all these German Jews?" after WWII) and that sympathetic and/or cynical US attitude has continued since WWII. But memories grow old and attitudes change with subsequent generations, Trump has a fundamentalist Christian constituency who supports Israel completely - they need Jews to be converted for their "Second Coming" of Christ. Harris has developed no such constituency but voters who are appalled by the treatment of the Palestinians will be voting mostly for her. She has made no promises on the subject, but she does acknowledge those voters' concerns. Neither Biden nor Harris will "rock the boat" on this issue - at least not right now. The election between Trump and Harris is pretty much tied right now. The election is Nov. 5, 2024, but the person elected doesn't take office until Jan. 20, 2025. Netanyahu knows this. He's got to hurry with his plans in case Harris is elected. So, my paltry analysis is: The US wiil act in its "own best interests" and the interests of International Capitalism. Crony capitalism will matter. Keep an eye on the US election.
Mosab is great. But his greatness is overshadowed by the evil and selfishness of Netanyahu. His crimes include giving Hamas the money they used for bombs, hang gliders and motorcycles to rpe and brutally kill peace loving Israelis. The ones most sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians. Israelis waited 11,12 hours to be rescued by disorganized soldiers only a few miles away. He doesn't care about the hostages, who he could have had a year ago when Hamas offered a straight across deal for prisoners. Netanyahu knows his life is over and trials and prison are in his future, why not stir the pot with Hezbollah with their 100,000 rockets? He is a danger to Israelis and everyone in the region. Hamas also gets no quarter from me. They were horribly cruel rulers and instigated the slaughter if Jews and Palestinians alike. Innocent Palestinians have been slaughtered. But Netayahu has made it 1000x worse. Biden has been a great president in all respects except this one. Now that he is only working on his legacy, the day after Harris wins the election,🤞 he needs to have a word with Netanyahu and tell him that he will not send young American soldiers into Lebanon to die for Netanyahu's ego. He should use his leverage to stop the money and weapons to Netanyahu until he stops strikes on Gaza, signs a peace accord with Egypt and Qatar and sign the paperwork to start to rebuild Gaza with everyone's help, and start the two state solution, and get the nasty and illegal American Jews out of the West Bank. The UK and everyone else has stopped weapons to Israel. Why should America continue to be Netanyahu's sucker when he wants Trump the dictator elected? The state of Israel is different from the bad leadership of Netanyahu.
I lost you at Sin*ar being responsible behind Iran firing missiles at Israel. You are explaining things as if bad stuff are just happening to Israel because it's in a bad neighborhood, removing any responsibility. Before Iranian missile attack that was announced and almost coordinated with Israel, hasn't Israel fired missiles at Iranian consulate in Syria? Isn't that a stupid move if you don't want retaliation? Am I missing something?
No, you're not missing anything. However, you're making a huge mistake by spewing facts in a fact-free zone. You should check that urge and lock it up in a drawer at home.
I fear you’re missing a great deal my fellow soul. They (Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah, Assad’s Syria, & the Iranian IRGC) literally refer to themselves as the axis of liberation. Within hrs of crazed Gazans slaughtering more Jews in a day since the Holocaust Hezbollah which operates thru the commands of Iran on the opposite side of Israel in Lebanon began launching rockets into Israel. For some 9 months Israel absorbed the blows while occasionally taking out IRGC efforts to turn Syria into another front in this clear war AGAINST Israel. Liberation means diff things to diff ppl but if you don’t see a correlation bet 6 recognized terror groups building a ring of fire all around Israel while using Islamist extremism to justify their stated aims of annihilating the world’s only Jewish state then maybe you don’t know as much as you believe you do
I find it deeply ironic that you are talking about how important it is to keep the idea of retaliation for hostile actions in mind - and yet carry water for Iran, the state sponsor of most of the terror groups in the region, two of which represent the most prominent threat to Israeli lives.
I have no sympathy for Iranian leadership. Neither do I support them in any way. Objectively speaking Arab masses (not all leadership), view USA and other allys of Israel, the same way as you view Iran. As a sponsor of state terro*ism.
The U.S need's to follow the Constitution which demand's we practice " separation of church and state". That goe's for our country and foreign country's. And forbid's fighting endless religious war's.
It seems that the main narrative is that Israel is the occupier of Arab Land. But historically, which people were occupying the land of Israel when the Babylonians, Persians, Assyrians, Romans, Ottomans and British conquered the land of Israel? Is it the Israelites or the Palestinians?
It was both, and a lot more. Even if your assumption were correct it would be difficult to lay claim to a land ancestors lived in thousands of years ago. My grandmother was Polish and before the 2nd World War was born and grew up in an area that is now Ukraine. Should I go and claim my 'birthright' and just move back into her old home? ☺️
This is such a massively different perspective than the Daily Episodes the other day. It's good for the NYT to bring in multiple perspectives. I've always been a big fan of Ezra, but since October 7th his hosts have been overwhelmingly Isreali apologists that ignore a lot of history that was highlighed on the Daily the other day. Ezra, I wish you would bring more balance and bring on some Palestinian/Arab voices and perspectives.
and what perspective is that other than we want to "undo Israel". You will NEVER find a Palestinian from Ramallah, Dearborn, Toronto, London, etc. state publicly, " I recognize there are two indigenous peoples on this land, Arabs and Jews. Those two peoples have an equal right to live on the land. I want an independent Palestine next to an independent Israel". All the talk of "peace" and "justice" is total bullshit. The Palestinian elites cling to their fantasy of "undoing Israel" to their own detriment for the past 100 years. The war of 1948 is over. It's the same bullshit time after time. They've turned down every peace offer, last made in 2008 and 2000, with East Jerusalem as their capital. October 7 was their vision of "return".
É ..parece que palestinos não existem mesmo ! O sionistas podem querer fazer desaparecer os palestinos e libaneses e sírios e todos os povos dali .. PARA FAZER « A GRANDE ISRAEL »!! Mas os árabes que estão e sempre estiveram lá na terras deles … Não podem achar que o intruso é .. SÃO OS ISRAELENSES QUE INVENTARAM UM ESTADO RACISTA QUE PROMOVE APARTHEID E OCUPA ILEGALMENTE TUDO !! Até quando ?? Até quando os árabes.. e os « TERRORISTAS » ganharem essa guerra ..! Essa batalha !! Espero que ganhem !!
Don't you see Ezra reserved that position of Palestinian advocacy for himself? Look at Ezra's eyes. Remnick, the unflappable, sweet-talking Israeli apologist knew Ezra's position. It kind of reminds me of Trump's " good people on both sides" comment. Too subtle ?
« The only answer is separation, partition. « Clear to see that the State of Israel is only there as a colonial power to control the oil of the Arabs. 95% of Israeli don’t have Hebrew blood, but Ukrainian ancestry. Like any colonial state it will be dissolved over time.
NYTimes subscriber, New Yorker subscriber, and Haarestz subscriber here, this was an amazing podcast, thanks for posting. One issue for me is hearing David Remnick use Yihiye Sinwar's self description as "a modern day Saladin." Saladin was reportedly tolerant of Jews. Sinwar in his speeches and the central core of Hamas doctrine is the murder and expulsion of Jews of which October 7th was just one example, albeit bloody, of many instances Arabic violence towards the Jews in the Middle East over the last 150 years. Christian crusaders murdered or expelled Jews and Muslims from Jerusalem in 1099; Saladin, when his forces conquered Jerusalem in 1187, allowed Jews to resettle in Jerusalem. Based on the experiences of October 7th during which 1500 mostly children, women, and men were murdered, mutilated, tortured, and sexually assaulted, I don't think tolerance is part of Sinwar's, or Hezbollah's, or Iran's plans for the Jewish people in Israel.
These are 2 of my favorite commenters and writers today. They’re clearly eyed realists on the situation I really don’t get the hate and vitriol in the comments.
Is there a reason why he failed to mention that sinwar was born and raised in a refugee camp? Important detail, no? To say his family fled to Gaza is incredibly misleading.
That was brilliant and very useful in helping me understand the current reality and the recent history of modern Israel. One question, where was Mossad when Hamas was pushing moderate Palestinians figures in Gaza, out of the windows??
Netanyahu benefited, and said as much, when Hamas came to power. It makes sense when one far right ultranationalist has an opposing far right ultranationalist to rally their people behind - nothing unifies like a terrifying foe. Both peoples need to lift and elevate moderate and conciliatory leaders if we want any hope of peace.
@@lawrencetchen Netanyahu was the leader of the opposition back then, and repeatedly warned the center left government of the time that if Israel didn’t reenter Gaza then Hamas would gain control. There are a lot of things to criticize him for, but supporting the withdrawal from Gaza isn’t one of them.
If Palestinians had a peace movement and leader, an MLK or ghandi there would’ve been a lasting two state solution. But they’ve chosen to elevate sinwar and a death cult
Watching this interview is like watching a train wreck - it's so wrong but I can't turn it off. I'm Just amazed at the level of, either self delusion or intellectual dishonesty. It's just pure propaganda. Good propaganda always has a hint of reality and a whole lot of pure bull****.
All I ever hear from Palestinians is "the land is all ours." Meaning, they aren't interested in negotiating nuthin'. Additionally, the so-called "moderate" PA has their little "pay-to-slay" program. So really guys, how could you _ever_ work with this kind of partner?
Lone?? The US has given Israel 50,000 tonnes of armaments, logistical support and brought an armada of warships to the region to support the IDF. Try to think more before posting absurd comments.
WHY do they not speak about the history as to why there is such a difference? How many wars do you need to win before you can own the land you live on. Israel can’t make a horse drink
It is always fascinating to watch nations that claim to have strong ties to religion and peace, rage wars for decades and have all but contempt for anyone who is not of their nation. As if they have never read a word of the scripture they seem to uphold so strongly. But to watch jews in Israel, after all of what their grand parents have gone through during WWII, treat their palestinian neighbours exactly the way jews have been treated in Europe in these dark days is beyond the pale.
Love the new facial hair style Ezra! Hope you will consider interviewing an Israeli leftist once. You know, the equivalent of an American progressive bit in Israel.
Whole situation is a tragedy. The story of the Jews has been one tragedy after another, and Palestinians have no home anymore. The violence and religious/racial hatred that both sides have is evident of the flaws humans innately have. That land seems almost destined to be cursed, and it’s sad to see.
The total interview lacks the perspective of the cult's book and ideology there the whole community is taught jews are lesser people and should not be allowed to rule. So this interview lacks credibility.
Really disappointing that you did not clearly said the root cause why we have the conflict at all. The refusal of Palestinians to accept a Jewish state in any part of the land (aka RoR to future P state) with intentions to live peacefully side by side. This is truly the only thing that should change for a two state solution to be viable. A huge number of Israelis wait and dream for this day to arrive.
It's also worth mentioning that while Israel has existed since 1948 and Jewish people from around the world have been able to move there, Palestinians continue to be a stateless people. Palestinian refusal to accept a Jewish state (to whatever extent that refusal exists) hasn't prevented Israel from existing. But Western imperialism and Israeli refusal to accept a Palestinian state have prevented the establishment of a Palestinian state.
@@jsmn5059 it's the other way around. They could have had their self determination but they CHOSE not to accept it. If they did, they could have immigration laws in their state for their people, just like Israel has for Jews.
The root is the European Jews and Colonialist West trying to form a state in a country which already has people in it. Even after WW2, many countries offer s safe place for Jews. And not to mention illegal immigrant from Europe going into Palestine before 1948. Two state solution??? Why would native people give up half of their lands to Immigrant whom chase them out with guns and bomb???
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
It would be great to have someone from Palestinian side. There is heavy Jewish representation in US media. If you really want have a deep, informed perspective having a Palestinian representation is a must
Muslims impose the narrative but obviously it isn't enough for people that believe that Jews pulls the strings
Modern Palestinians do not know their history - you should invite Mr.Arafat, Hitler or the Kremlin Frankensteins who invented this legend about ancient Khanaanite heroes
Like Mosab Hassan Yousef. Great Palestinian perspective. :)
@@1000свольдер maybe they can read how many times the UN has asked for a peaceful settlement which Israel voted against. Maybe they might ask where are the rape victims ......the women who could come forward and say they were raped by Hamas or the forensic evidence
never going to happen. I read an article in NYT about Hamas 'brutal tactics' and the sources were 1 palestinian guy that does not like Hamas and 'U.S. intelligence officials'. I did a lookup once and only mention of Human Rights Watch was when they were critical of Hamas. I'm beginning to think NYT doesn't like Hamas.
I am Irish and really disgusted with what is going on and feel a great sorrow for the ordinary people of Gasa, Lebanon and Israel. I have become very suspicious of mainstream media and what is mostly biased reporting. This conversation gave me additional perspectives that felt genuine ❤
Nothing on ezra's podcast regarding this topic is genuine.
Brother, you are comments on mainstream media right now.
This is a sham like the rest of the NEW York (CRIMES) reporting on Palestine & Palestinians! This DAVID REMNICK is the male Version of HILLARY CLINTON. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD OF A PALESTINIAN ATTACK? it’s the other way around’. Don’t listen or read fake news! Turn to independent journalism. Max Blumenthal. Democracy now, Breaking points, electronic intifada, etc. Israel killed 178 Journalists in less than 11 mos period! More than the 20 yrs Vietnam war!
This is a sham like the rest of the NEW York (CRIMES) reporting on Palestine & Palestinians! This DAVID REMNICK is the male Version of HILLARY CLINTON. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD OF A PALESTINIAN ATTACK? it’s the other way around’. Don’t listen or read fake news! Turn to independent journalism. Max Blumenthal. Democracy now, Breaking points, electronic intifada, etc. Israel killed 178 Journalists in less than 11 mos period! More than the 20 yrs Vietnam war!
Kisses to you and all Irish people from an anti-colonialist french little guy (yes there is such a thing!).
Ezra, please bring a Palestinian on to talk about the current state of affairs. Please 🙏🏿
É ……
No. We've heard enough out of Palestians. The endless proven lies.
Jews can't be trusted with Israel
are u referring to those who don't exist 😊...good luck....
They just lie there’s no point
Interesting podcast. I would have liked to listen more about the way Palestiniens feel and understand the history of this conflict since the creation of the state of Israel.
Ezra Klein has made a number of podcast shows on that, just listen to his earlier shows since October 7
Os palestinos foram os menos consultados desde o começo da resolução de l’ONU ..!
Ninguém quer saber e se incomodar com eles ..!
O que rola o tempo todo é só lobby e interesses de nações..imperialistas ..!
Vamos falar a verdade !
E US também ..não está nem aí com Israel ..
Mas enquanto US tem a ganhar em ..
Middle East eles jogam o jogo é lógico !!
@@lupen_rein I will, thank you, but I won't go into that high hopes. I see a difference in those who try to straddle the fence between loyalty to a fascist state while seeming to feel sad about mass starvation and murder of civilians. This problem won't be fixed once Netanyahu is replaced, this genocidal action that Israel is engaged in is seen by many Jews as an existential necessity. That is madness defined.
@@raincadeifyWatch Corey Gil Shuster interviews with Palestinians and Israelis. Then you will know what both think.
@@raincadeify Netaniahu was chosen democratically, and as you well said, any other democratically elected would do almost the same because there is no other way in a war to destruct your enemy as was done by the US, UK and other countries and you are in complete silence which is to be complicit on your side.
About genocide, where is it? If Israel would do a genocide why does not do it? The Palestinian population in Gaza is still the same. the casualties are mostly terrorists and less than 1% of its population.
A request for interviews like this... could you date the interview in the info section? It would save us trying to work out when its recorded in the context on ongoing events (in this case the escalation with Hezbollah)
Outstanding! A deep and nuanced dive into a complicated subject. I could have listened to another hour. Thank you, Ezra Klein & David Remnick!
Complicated? Please ...
Not complicated at all. One ethnic group migrated and formed a state and for about 70 years they have been trying to steal more and more land.
It’s not complicated. Is… and the west want the ME they want the land in Gaza and the West Bank, and beyond, but don’t want the people on it. They squeeze said people until they retaliate then call them sav…
This is the formula the west has used across the globe.
They want the land, and not the indigenous people on the land. They want regional hegemony over all of the resources, cheap labor, etc across the ME. Modus operandi of western col… it’s why Is… was founded-no different than Massachusetts Bay in the 1700s.
Netanyahu even as far as to quote the speech the governor from Massachusetts Bay gave prior to his geno of the Wampanoags.
@@xx133they want to steal what’s left of the land and resources but those pesky indigenous civilians won’t leave.
Thanks for the interview!
Thank you for one of the most astute and informative conversations I’ve heard on the Palestinian-Israeli quagmire in a very long time. We need more conversations on all levels.
try the electronic intifada and what they say about some of the New York Times stories and the lack of evidence
New Yorker can’t even find one Palestinian to talk for Palestine, and Palestinians? Shocking!
A Palestinian who will actually agree to talk about hamas?
Hard to find many that aren't affiliated with terrorist orgs.
you can go and do it your self, I found your comment as childish, did you ask your self why chickens don't speak for their self?
Go ahead find someone who will speak freely about Hamas. Many live in fear of their lives. When you got youngsters shouting "we are hamas" do you think you can have a conversation with them who support a terror group.
This is one of the most informative podcast I listen to about this conflict. These guys have biases everyone does, but their smart enough to know that.
another hour of treating one side of the conflict like infirmed children that have zero responsibility for their situation
Spot on
Are you talking about Israel?
Could you clarify?
Sinwar is a “religious kid”? How stupid is that. He headed the tunnels, the rockets, the pure hatred, Oct 7, the hostages, the demands for terrorists held in Israel to be released to do more damage to Israel. Not hard to understand that he only understands hate and power. He has to be stopped.
Cosplay Old Testament lunatics, supported by the powers that be. That’s the only issue
Easy to forget in all the noise of the internet that this level of nuance and balance is, at the least, a small majority in the west. Otherwise the establishment/s wouldn’t have the positions they do. One small sliver of hope.
Hi NYT. Do you feel like now issuing a correction to your assertion from last October that "What Israel is fighting to defend is a society that values human life and the rule of law" or will you need more time (i..e more Palestinian death) for a reappraisal of that claim? Or perhaps it is your contention that "more than 40,000 Palestinians in Gaza are dead" having expired as an unfortunate consequence of old age?
This figure was given by Hamas, and includes their own. Having said that, what does a figure, alone, tell you about who's guilty of what?
To illustrate, let's take a hostage situation, where a bank robber kills a hostage, and takes 10 others. When SWAT arrives, a gunfight ensues, and 3 people, possibly including the suspect himself are killed. Without any further knowledge, how do you decide who's guilty of what? In a situation where the suspect is killed along with 2 hostages, not including the first one, are killed by SWAT, in their attempt to stop the armed suspect. Who is ultimately responsible for people getting killed?
Blame hamas as they hide like cowards in tunnels under civilian infrastructure. So according to you, no hamas terrorists were killed in the war only innocent civilians. That’s extremely gullible. These numbers also do not account for how many were killed by hamas and other terrorist groups misfired rockets. You are using hamas numbers that do not account for many factors. This is the first war in history that reports numbers on a daily basis. Most wars it takes years to understand the full extent of civilian deaths.
The Russian Ukraine war best estimate is about 1 million people killed or injured. The Sudan war the numbers are all over the place. But no one cares about tjose brutal wars as it doesn't involve Israel.
@evamurray2564 we're talking about around 1200 people dead on one side and 40000 on the other (a number that hasn't been updated in many months). Gaza has been basically leveled. Are you seriously trying to draw an equivalency or draw into question who is wrong here? The answer is obvious. Israel has gone well beyond proportional response a long time ago.
@ryno4ever433 you are viewing war as if it's a numbers game. Using your logic, Israel's response should have been the same as hamas, which is to commit atrocities and take 250 hostages then call it quits. BTW, the 40 000 are hamas numbers and have been updated continually. When was the last time you heard any updates on the Sudan war, the Syrian civil war, the Ukraine Russia war? Also why is it that hamas supporters never acknowledge that the numbers reported never include hamas terrorists or the number killed by the terrorists misfired rockets that explode in Gaza.
Good God- no agency ascribed to Palestinians. How about their refusal to accept a state time after time? How about never teaching towards co-existence? Palestinians society has NEVER accepted a two a state solution. They have always wanted it all to themselves. David and Ezra are two American Jews who just don't get the cruel realities of the Middle East.
Excellent conversation. Only issue ignored: the unconditional and free supply of American weaponry, without which the situation would be completely different. To which I might add: the complete ignoring of American Palestinians, both by Harris in her campaign rallies in Michigan, and by Democrats in the Senate hearing a few days ago.
Thanks! You just saved me 70 minutes of my day. If this is the "only issue ignored" then this conversation has as much value as a discussion about fire-fighting that refuses to mention the merits of water.
@@robertmusil5831 it added to my knowledge. Maybe it will to yours.
@@robertmusil5831 They acknowledge it, they just talk about what is rather than engaging in hypotheticals. If you want to know the impact of American weapons on the situation you should listen to some military expert. It's not his area of expertise. How would he ever know what the impact would be of an arms embargo and whether there are supply alternatives or there aren't.
2 people talking on points that they agree with narrow minded thoughts
@@leetaub6499 if you take the effort to actually listen, you'd know that they don't agree on everything.
3 minutes in Sinwar “fled” without any context on who he was fleeing from. Got it!
Tragic situation but outstanding show. Really appreciate David Remnick
What a great interview! Thank you!
Fantastic interview. Great set!
I lived in Israel and just recently spent two months there. This was a good conversation, but it doesn't begin to scratch the surface of all the different realities. As much as both of you have spent time in Israel, you don't know the reality of actually living in the place and facing all the challenges.
Please explain colonization to me in simpler terms. Where did Zionist grandparents come from.
Educate yourselves. Abbas is no moderate. He was the architect of the Munich massacre
Literally holds a PhD in Holocaust denial.
Abbas is a monster. Read his book about the "Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism". His BS helps fuel this nonsense.
11:30 they still will be talkin about "understanding both sides" when Israel has bombed the whole region back into the stone age.
Bring Palestinian american to give their side of the story. You have Khalid rashidi, noura erakat, mouin rabbani. We need to hear both sides of the conflict.
Introduction and Overview of the Current Situation (00:00)
Who is Yahya Sinwar? Background and Influence (01:24)
Life in Israeli Prison and Learning About Israeli Society (03:42)
Sinwar's Hostage Negotiations and Release (08:17)
Hezbollah and the Northern Border Situation (16:37)
American Influence and Biden's Cautionary Approach (20:12)
Potential for a Broader Conflict with Lebanon (21:24)
Israeli Politics and Netanyahu's Grip on Power (28:17)
Naftali Bennett: The Next Potential Prime Minister? (50:41)
Discussion on Religious Nationalism and Political Shifts (51:00)
American-Israeli Relations and Future Generational Shifts (58:24)
Conclusion: Reflecting on Possible Future Outcomes (1:04:43)
Very informative interview…Netanyahu is taking a great country (Israel) down a terrible path.
It was never great
Very unfortunately Israelis kept/ keep electing him again. As US Americans kept/keep electing Trump ...
This is so skewed it is WILD
David Remnick’s book Lenin’s Tomb is a great read!
Ezra looks good with a beard 🧔♂️
Sad to hear my own equally dismal but sketchily informed prognosis eerily reflected in this conversation. I need to go spend some time with some toddlers. They know better.
The purpose of the establishment of the state of Israel was to provide a safe place for Jews. By that standard the project of establishing a state for Jews is, after 75 years, a failure.
*one of the purposes, in the grand scheme of creating an ethnostate
Just as well they didnt go to Madagascar or Uganda as was suggested at some point, then again Ugandans or Madagascans probably would not have been lobbing 🚀 decades later . When the Britishers retreated from their co lonial projects after slicing the continent like a pizza well into the 60s and 70s
@@supernova7848
Jews live in Jewdea for the last 3300 years,
Jews have their history in Jewdea, follow the culture of Judea, language of Judea and religion of Judea.
Arabs follow the culture of Arabia, language of Arabia and religion of Arabia.
Jews - Judea.
Arabs - Arabia.
The number of casualties of the Arab Israeli conflict all sides combined over 100 years is not even in the top 50 list, despite being falsely presented as #1conflict by the media (Gues why), Egyptian soldiers being the largest group of casualties then Israeli soldiers then Syrian soldiers.
@@supernova7848
WTH are Jews living in Jewdea?
Interesting discussion from a Western media perspective. It would be more valuable if a Palestinian voice were included. Because David Remnick isn't without his own biases in supporting Israel.
Islamists demonstrations around the globe should tell you it is not a local conflict about land.
Read the founding charter of Hamas it will tell you all that you need to know
Did either of them even mention the fact that they're both Jewish?
"Our American friends offer us money, arms and advice. We take the money. We tske the arms. We decline the advice." - Moshe Dayan. There you go ...
Truth, honesty,integrity. Was very refreshing. Actually learned. Thank you both.
Thank you, Ezra. Remnick seems to have a deep, even more than academic understanding of the situation, but, thankfully, you, Ezra, kept bringing him back to the immediate, revolting situation the Palestinians are in. Your focus was impressive, to say the least
It is not hard to imagine what the Israeli policies/strategies can/will lead to. And if American policies change at all, Netanyu will have led Israel into a dire, even tragic situation.
Revenge is overrated - but most people don't know that.
Amazing deep dive on this deep and complex topic
Time to revisit this video following the news
Netanyahu capitulated to public pressure when he agreed to release prisoners for a single hostage. He has learned from his mistake but the pubic seems to have forgotten that a hostage deal ensures more hostages will be taken.
Yeah, he’s clearly traumatized by the disastrous Shalit deal.
Smarty...Bibi is the best president Sinwar ever wanted....
Why in a beginning of this conversation no one bother to mentioned that this Hamas leader not only learned language in prison but also was cured of brain cancer, while in an Israeli prison. The actual mastermind behind the October 7th attacks was someone whose life had been saved by a Jewish oncologist.
What's your point? In most parts of the world a doctor would save a patient no matter what race or political persuasion. The fact you point out proof of humane treatment of Palestinians by Israeli DOCTORS says what your base expectation is, doesn't it? I'm saying that's a low bar you have for Israelis.
@@raincadeifyit’s not about Israel. It’s about how entitled the patient is. Bite the hand that feeds you.
@@KJ-yises Always with the animal comparisons. I think you don't see your own bigotry.
@@raincadeifyThey save his life, he murders 1000s. You can't see the tragic irony?
@@KJ-yisesI can't decode of this comment can be thought of from a cretin or an amoral monster....hmm
What is the name of the Netanjahu documentary?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bibi_Files
@@fks35555 Thanks!
War is chaos, Ezra. It is not a neatly planned and executed production like your podcast. There is not some over-arcing tidy story line with a clear outcome.
absolute nonviolence is not a requirement of Judaism, the religion so sharply restricts the use of violence, that nonviolence often becomes the only way to fulfilling a life of truth, justice and peace, which Judaism considers to be the three tools for the preservation of the world.
Incredible interview
GREAT AND INSIGHTFUL INTERVIEW ,
It's pretty clear on which side this podcast stands. Couldn't be more clear.
wonderful interview
Excellent conversation
Israel saved Sinwar’s life. Terrible mistake
israel created 3000 Sinwars in the last 11 months
@@teddmented imagine litte Sinwar seeing all that destruction as a boy. He is a real example of what Israel created. Apartheid and genocide.
The NY slimes employing figures for those KIA that the UN has debunked?
"In June, The Wall Street Journal reported that trying to maximize civilian casualties has been part of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar’s “brutal calculation” on how to win the war. Sinwar spoke clearly about how he saw his strategy of putting civilians in danger for the cause of destroying Israel: “These are necessary sacrifices,” he said."
Israeli lives are no more valuable than Palestinian lives. i am so frustrated that everyone talks about the hostages while israel kills more innocent palestinian babies than all the hostages combined. There is no sympathy left for Israel. I used to be a Zionist, but after the genocide started you read more about the history and you come back to the central question, why can't everyone live together in a shared democracy with a division between church and state? Listen to the answers Zionists say in response to that question and you can really understand how radically right wing these people are. Palestinians and Jews already live and work side by side, the system we have now is just apartheid.
Does Hamas want a two state solution?
Edit: I don't want my comment to sound to biased. I don't think either far right government of Israel or Palestine wants any solution other than the destruction of the other state and it's people
and why aren’t the thousands of Palestinians held in Israeli military prisons, without charges or legal recourse, considered “hostages”?
where is there a functioning secular democracy in the middle east that protects ethnic and religious minorities? muslims are slaughtering other religious groups (and even other muslims) all over africa and the middle east and no one talks about it. Israel is the only nation ever in the news. Stop projecting your western perspective on arab muslims who don't want to live in that way. it's basically thought colonialism. Palestinian leadership is either arab nationalist or islamofascist, and the jews don't want to live under their rule. fundamentally different cultures shouldn't have to live together. it would just be civil war as brutal as we've seen in the rest of MENA. they need to accept the 2 state solution (one they could have had in 1948 with even more land had the arab league not declared war on the fledgling jewish state) or leave for other arab nations a few miles away.
@@enknaran Do the Palestinians want a two state solution? Have they ever?
Israel did. BEFORE they learned the lesson of October 7.
They already live in a shared democracy with separation between church and state, it's called Israel. Palestinians can start their own democracy with separation between church and state if they like, why are you against that?
Why is this interview so tense?
They “fled” in 1948 from their Palestinian city that would become Ashkelon for no reason whatsoever…
For opening a genocidal war on Jews yet losing
I caught that too! The town where someone lived all of a sudden became a different name and taken over
@@Userjo37 they think we are fools, but they are only fooling themselves.
Ashqelon was already there for 3000 years.
@@Userjo37 That happened to the old community of Jews that used to live in Gaza city, only 20 years earlier.
Nice kicks Ezra.
I really like seeing Ezra Klein. This is how I will consume this program from now on
How can you so self-righteous as a colonizer? Amazing.
@@geraldvaughan5103 colonizers are the ones who think Bethlehem, Scheme, Hebron, and Jericho are somehow their “indigenous” cities lol. Israel is very much like the Spanish reconquista where the Spanish took their country back from the Arab muslims that colonized them. For Spain it took them 700 years of struggle, and for Israel it was cooking for a long time and when the opportunity came we did it and returned from exile 🙏❤️🇮🇱
You probably should ask the Arab-Muslims invadors who colonized the whole middle east including Israel.
@@Eran_Haim what the cap are you on about reconquista?
The problem is some people with a 2000 year old belief based claim, and supported by the powers that be (awful colonialist people as well), turned up at our home and violently expelled us, and have been god awful to us since.
Those people that did that to us, don’t understand why we hate their guts and why we would fight back, even with our lives, just to give them a bloody nose, if nothing else.
Those perpetrators have the audacity to play victim, and and their backers would stop at nothing to support them. Just a cluster truck of dishonour on every level
They’re trying to push some narrative that we’re Saudi or some c rap like that, I’M A CHRISTIAN FROM HAIFA FOR GODS SAKE, HOW CAN I BE SAUDI TOU DUMB…… I’m a Palestinian and I speak Arab, and you will not erase me you cowards
That’s the bottom line, history, religion, politics have nothing to do here.
Jews in Jewdea are de-colonizers
Jews live in Jewdea for the last 3300 years,
Jews have their history in Jewdea, follow the culture of Judea, language of Judea and religion of Judea.
Arabs follow the culture of Arabia, language of Arabia and religion of Arabia.
Jews - Judea.
Arabs - Arabia.
My God, what's gonna take to respect each others life?
I hope Ezra reads the comments. Ezra, I have been following politics for many, many years; yet, I have no idea how polling works. A New York Times poll just came out that shows quite different results from the NBC poll of just a few days ago. I wonder if you have considered (or maybe you have already?) having a polling expert on to explain how the polls are done. For example, in the current race, how does the polling try to reflect a possible increase in young voters? Do they go onto college campuses? We suspect they don't answer phone calls. Thanks. And not to be self-serving, I think you're the best interviewer I have heard. Your work on the Israeli-Hamas et al conflict is a good example.
There are several Ezra Klein podcasts in particular talking to poll experts. I recall one with Nate Solon as recently as a month ago.
He doesn't even go on X, there's no way hes reading RUclips comments
Fantastic piece! I have wondered - why doesn’t the US Democratic Party ticket, KH/TW, delineate between support for Israel while condemningBibi Netanyahu. Genuinely want to understand, Ezra.
Ezra Klein and David Remnick conversation shows the binary way of thought they have, for them left is all good and right is all wrong, the good and the bad, then they do not criticize the left under any circumstances. I always though on the center left, but 7/10 changed completely my views, and I do not credit the left nor the right for they wrong views. The 7/10 should have have to change some views of those intellectuals too, instead, they are insisting and not adjusting to their new reality.
Bennet may be religious but he is a liberal. He was in a government with the muslim brotherhood part, he knows how to work with everyone. He is liberal and I tell you this as Israeli.
a liberal zionist is the same as a liberal nazi. non existant
Delusional
Stephen Daedalus (aka James Joyce): "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awaken." On the other hand: "...to sleep, to sleep perchance to dream..."
As an Israeli liberal, I am not sure what are the US real geostrategic interests.
On that one hand I would welcome a clear and decisive policy towards a two-state solution which looks like an authentic US interest. On the other hand, it seems as if for the US Israel is first and foremost a US military base, or just a non-Arab allay in the middle east, that the US don't really care about Israel's exact liberal or democratic values, but more on its exclusive reliance on US support.
You understand US policy better than most. The US wants clients for its military-industrial complex. If you understand this, then US policy in the Middle East and Ukraine starts to make sense.
If you want a clear two state policy, you won't get it. Israel's conflicts have been uniquely detrimental to the post WWII order, but the US voter knows more about when Israel's in danger than about its policies and US politicians respond accordingly. All that matters is that Israel is safe. Two state, one state, democratic values, who cares.
You see the US doesn't view Israel as an ally, it's just inherently nice that Israel exists. There is no economic, military, or strategic interest in Israel. Israel actually acts counter to all of those interests: Israel is a competing tech hub, it hurts US relations with the Saudis, and isn't standing with the US on Ukraine or much during 9/11. Maybe there's a red line somewhere, but consider that the US fork over all sorts of money or will stand with Israel against literally everyone else in the world and expect nothing in return. Edit: Ah, Ezra brings this up at 1:06:02 but US & Biden's support of Israel was a signal of being anti-Nazi and anti-USSR atheism post WWII, but in the future the US may need a reason to support Israel.
@@ehsanakbari3185 "clients for its military-industrial complex" - can you explain this further? the US is supplying the money, weapons etc so how does the US benefit? US is loosing money being a part of these wars. Would love your insight to better understand this notion.
I think, first and foremost, the US is dealing with a duly elected leader, Netanyahu. Contrary to what Netanyahu has done, the US supports the leader who is legitimately in power in Israel - pretty much, no matter what. A reasonably stable situation benefits the US as it does all commerical concerns. The US has, and will, support Netanyahu until the Israeli people change leaders - count on it. ( The only question I have is, "How destabilizing can Netanyahu become in the Middle East before the US begins to exert real power to restrain him?) But, at this point, it's getting reasonable to think deals have been made with major arab states to allow Israel to take the reputational hit for "cleaning the gangs out of the neighborhood.")
The Gulf War gave the US a larger footprint in the Middle East. Israel is now not the only one.
Times are a'changin' - Originally, the US and the world were appalled by the treatment the Jews had endured in WWII Germany, (to say nothing of, "What do we do with all these German Jews?" after WWII) and that sympathetic and/or cynical US attitude has continued since WWII.
But memories grow old and attitudes change with subsequent generations, Trump has a fundamentalist Christian constituency who supports Israel completely - they need Jews to be converted for their "Second Coming" of Christ. Harris has developed no such constituency but voters who are appalled by the treatment of the Palestinians will be voting mostly for her. She has made no promises on the subject, but she does acknowledge those voters' concerns. Neither Biden nor Harris will "rock the boat" on this issue - at least not right now.
The election between Trump and Harris is pretty much tied right now. The election is Nov. 5, 2024, but the person elected doesn't take office until Jan. 20, 2025. Netanyahu knows this. He's got to hurry with his plans in case Harris is elected.
So, my paltry analysis is: The US wiil act in its "own best interests" and the interests of International Capitalism. Crony capitalism will matter. Keep an eye on the US election.
Commenters seem to want a Palestinian voice. I suggest Mosab Hassan Yousef.
I suggest you stop listening to the ramblings of mad men.
There are so many madmen around. They seem hard to avoid.
Mosab is great. But his greatness is overshadowed by the evil and selfishness of Netanyahu. His crimes include giving Hamas the money they used for bombs, hang gliders and motorcycles to rpe and brutally kill peace loving Israelis. The ones most sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians. Israelis waited 11,12 hours to be rescued by disorganized soldiers only a few miles away. He doesn't care about the hostages, who he could have had a year ago when Hamas offered a straight across deal for prisoners. Netanyahu knows his life is over and trials and prison are in his future, why not stir the pot with Hezbollah with their 100,000 rockets? He is a danger to Israelis and everyone in the region. Hamas also gets no quarter from me. They were horribly cruel rulers and instigated the slaughter if Jews and Palestinians alike. Innocent Palestinians have been slaughtered. But Netayahu has made it 1000x worse. Biden has been a great president in all respects except this one. Now that he is only working on his legacy, the day after Harris wins the election,🤞 he needs to have a word with Netanyahu and tell him that he will not send young American soldiers into Lebanon to die for Netanyahu's ego. He should use his leverage to stop the money and weapons to Netanyahu until he stops strikes on Gaza, signs a peace accord with Egypt and Qatar and sign the paperwork to start to rebuild Gaza with everyone's help, and start the two state solution, and get the nasty and illegal American Jews out of the West Bank. The UK and everyone else has stopped weapons to Israel. Why should America continue to be Netanyahu's sucker when he wants Trump the dictator elected? The state of Israel is different from the bad leadership of Netanyahu.
He’s a Mossad spy. But good try G…. supporter
@@What-kw6ox Shalom! LOLOL
I lost you at Sin*ar being responsible behind Iran firing missiles at Israel. You are explaining things as if bad stuff are just happening to Israel because it's in a bad neighborhood, removing any responsibility. Before Iranian missile attack that was announced and almost coordinated with Israel, hasn't Israel fired missiles at Iranian consulate in Syria? Isn't that a stupid move if you don't want retaliation? Am I missing something?
No, you're not missing anything. However, you're making a huge mistake by spewing facts in a fact-free zone. You should check that urge and lock it up in a drawer at home.
I fear you’re missing a great deal my fellow soul. They (Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah, Assad’s Syria, & the Iranian IRGC) literally refer to themselves as the axis of liberation. Within hrs of crazed Gazans slaughtering more Jews in a day since the Holocaust Hezbollah which operates thru the commands of Iran on the opposite side of Israel in Lebanon began launching rockets into Israel. For some 9 months Israel absorbed the blows while occasionally taking out IRGC efforts to turn Syria into another front in this clear war AGAINST Israel. Liberation means diff things to diff ppl but if you don’t see a correlation bet 6 recognized terror groups building a ring of fire all around Israel while using Islamist extremism to justify their stated aims of annihilating the world’s only Jewish state then maybe you don’t know as much as you believe you do
You're missing the fact that it was a coordination hub for terror attacks against Israel
I find it deeply ironic that you are talking about how important it is to keep the idea of retaliation for hostile actions in mind - and yet carry water for Iran, the state sponsor of most of the terror groups in the region, two of which represent the most prominent threat to Israeli lives.
I have no sympathy for Iranian leadership. Neither do I support them in any way. Objectively speaking Arab masses (not all leadership), view USA and other allys of Israel, the same way as you view Iran. As a sponsor of state terro*ism.
Like Shakespeare once said: If I don't steal it someone else will.
Excellent ❤👏🏾👏🏾
The U.S need's to follow the Constitution which demand's we practice " separation of church and state". That goe's for our country and foreign country's. And forbid's fighting endless religious war's.
Thanks
It seems that the main narrative is that Israel is the occupier of Arab Land. But historically, which people were occupying the land of Israel when the Babylonians, Persians, Assyrians, Romans, Ottomans and British conquered the land of Israel? Is it the Israelites or the Palestinians?
It was both, and a lot more. Even if your assumption were correct it would be difficult to lay claim to a land ancestors lived in thousands of years ago. My grandmother was Polish and before the 2nd World War was born and grew up in an area that is now Ukraine. Should I go and claim my 'birthright' and just move back into her old home? ☺️
Very insightful and thought provoking but none the less … blinded by intellectualism and collective unrealism !
This is such a massively different perspective than the Daily Episodes the other day. It's good for the NYT to bring in multiple perspectives.
I've always been a big fan of Ezra, but since October 7th his hosts have been overwhelmingly Isreali apologists that ignore a lot of history that was highlighed on the Daily the other day.
Ezra, I wish you would bring more balance and bring on some Palestinian/Arab voices and perspectives.
and what perspective is that other than we want to "undo Israel". You will NEVER find a Palestinian from Ramallah, Dearborn, Toronto, London, etc. state publicly, " I recognize there are two indigenous peoples on this land, Arabs and Jews. Those two peoples have an equal right to live on the land. I want an independent Palestine next to an independent Israel". All the talk of "peace" and "justice" is total bullshit. The Palestinian elites cling to their fantasy of "undoing Israel" to their own detriment for the past 100 years. The war of 1948 is over. It's the same bullshit time after time. They've turned down every peace offer, last made in 2008 and 2000, with East Jerusalem as their capital. October 7 was their vision of "return".
É ..parece que palestinos não existem mesmo !
O sionistas podem querer fazer desaparecer os palestinos e libaneses e sírios e todos os povos dali ..
PARA FAZER
« A GRANDE ISRAEL »!!
Mas os árabes que estão e sempre estiveram lá na terras deles …
Não podem achar que o intruso é ..
SÃO OS ISRAELENSES QUE INVENTARAM UM ESTADO RACISTA QUE PROMOVE APARTHEID E OCUPA ILEGALMENTE TUDO !!
Até quando ??
Até quando os árabes.. e os
« TERRORISTAS » ganharem essa guerra ..!
Essa batalha !!
Espero que ganhem !!
Don't you see Ezra reserved that position of Palestinian advocacy for himself? Look at Ezra's eyes. Remnick, the unflappable, sweet-talking Israeli apologist knew Ezra's position. It kind of reminds me of Trump's " good people on both sides" comment. Too subtle ?
I would be interested to know David Remnick's view of the impact of the Abraham Accords
« The only answer is separation, partition. «
Clear to see that the State of Israel is only there as a colonial power to control the oil of the Arabs. 95% of Israeli don’t have Hebrew blood, but Ukrainian ancestry. Like any colonial state it will be dissolved over time.
Thank you
Palestinians have the right to their own state once they accept Israel and pushing Palestinians into Jordan is an idiotic idea.
NYTimes subscriber, New Yorker subscriber, and Haarestz subscriber here, this was an amazing podcast, thanks for posting. One issue for me is hearing David Remnick use Yihiye Sinwar's self description as "a modern day Saladin." Saladin was reportedly tolerant of Jews. Sinwar in his speeches and the central core of Hamas doctrine is the murder and expulsion of Jews of which October 7th was just one example, albeit bloody, of many instances Arabic violence towards the Jews in the Middle East over the last 150 years. Christian crusaders murdered or expelled Jews and Muslims from Jerusalem in 1099; Saladin, when his forces conquered Jerusalem in 1187, allowed Jews to resettle in Jerusalem. Based on the experiences of October 7th during which 1500 mostly children, women, and men were murdered, mutilated, tortured, and sexually assaulted, I don't think tolerance is part of Sinwar's, or Hezbollah's, or Iran's plans for the Jewish people in Israel.
All correct
Sinwar's references are the heroes and the glorified eras of Muslim Arabs audience, the glorious days of caliphates and conquests.
The Electoral College is part of maintaining a democracy in the U.S.
These are 2 of my favorite commenters and writers today. They’re clearly eyed realists on the situation
I really don’t get the hate and vitriol in the comments.
Im sorry the didnt talk about America's support for Israel, what we get out of it and is that worth it.
Then you need to include Iran's involvement also.
Is there a reason why he failed to mention that sinwar was born and raised in a refugee camp? Important detail, no?
To say his family fled to Gaza is incredibly misleading.
That was brilliant and very useful in helping me understand the current reality and the recent history of modern Israel.
One question, where was Mossad when Hamas was pushing moderate Palestinians figures in Gaza, out of the windows??
Netanyahu benefited, and said as much, when Hamas came to power. It makes sense when one far right ultranationalist has an opposing far right ultranationalist to rally their people behind - nothing unifies like a terrifying foe. Both peoples need to lift and elevate moderate and conciliatory leaders if we want any hope of peace.
@@lawrencetchen Netanyahu was the leader of the opposition back then, and repeatedly warned the center left government of the time that if Israel didn’t reenter Gaza then Hamas would gain control.
There are a lot of things to criticize him for, but supporting the withdrawal from Gaza isn’t one of them.
0:02 I didn’t recognize Ezra! Wow.. a voice of generations.
If Palestinians had a peace movement and leader, an MLK or ghandi there would’ve been a lasting two state solution. But they’ve chosen to elevate sinwar and a death cult
Watching this interview is like watching a train wreck - it's so wrong but I can't turn it off. I'm Just amazed at the level of, either self delusion or intellectual dishonesty. It's just pure propaganda. Good propaganda always has a hint of reality and a whole lot of pure bull****.
what about it is propaganda
What is the "status quo"? It began before Oct.7.
That conflict started 1400 years ago when Mohamad failed to convince Jews to adopt him as a leader
David Ramnik,
One does not need to be even an army corporal for one to understand that a 9 miles wide country can not be protected
Remnick says the word 'Architecture' as an substitute for Oppression
You are wrong about water distribution simply wrong
All I ever hear from Palestinians is "the land is all ours." Meaning, they aren't interested in negotiating nuthin'. Additionally, the so-called "moderate" PA has their little "pay-to-slay" program. So really guys, how could you _ever_ work with this kind of partner?
Israeli's should be pleased to have a leader like Bibi. He is strong and brave.
Israel is a lone lion surrounded by jackals
Israel is the biggest bully in the region, imposing apartheid and genocide on the Palestinians. It has always been a Goliath vs david story
Lone?? The US has given Israel 50,000 tonnes of armaments, logistical support and brought an armada of warships to the region to support the IDF. Try to think more before posting absurd comments.
All their TikTok posts and even the pompous words of the president etc is not lion-like at all
Too bad you can’t have any Palestinian journalist on here.
WHY do they not speak about the history as to why there is such a difference? How many wars do you need to win before you can own the land you live on. Israel can’t make a horse drink
Stop quoting Hamas Ministry of Health. How many Hamas fighters are dead that os the question.
calling Trump the most illiberal person imaginable after talking about israel for an hour is insulting
Still butthurt from the pagers? 🤣🤣🤣🤣📟📟📟📟✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽🇮🇱🇮🇱
american hid ler............. straight up
It is always fascinating to watch nations that claim to have strong ties to religion and peace, rage wars for decades and have all but contempt for anyone who is not of their nation. As if they have never read a word of the scripture they seem to uphold so strongly.
But to watch jews in Israel, after all of what their grand parents have gone through during WWII, treat their palestinian neighbours exactly the way jews have been treated in Europe in these dark days is beyond the pale.
Love the new facial hair style Ezra!
Hope you will consider interviewing an Israeli leftist once.
You know, the equivalent of an American progressive bit in Israel.
Whole situation is a tragedy. The story of the Jews has been one tragedy after another, and Palestinians have no home anymore. The violence and religious/racial hatred that both sides have is evident of the flaws humans innately have. That land seems almost destined to be cursed, and it’s sad to see.
If you want to know what both think watch Corey Gil Shuster who interviews both in their own words.
The total interview lacks the perspective of the cult's book and ideology there the whole community is taught jews are lesser people and should not be allowed to rule. So this interview lacks credibility.
Why don't you say who Ajj Amin All Huayni was, the mentor of the ORGANIZATION FOR FREE PALESTINE who helped Hitler in the Nazi concentration camps?
Is it confirmed that monsieur sinwar is in gaza? I doubt it. Might be in a golf course somewhere in cairo or alexandria.
Really disappointing that you did not clearly said the root cause why we have the conflict at all. The refusal of Palestinians to accept a Jewish state in any part of the land (aka RoR to future P state) with intentions to live peacefully side by side.
This is truly the only thing that should change for a two state solution to be viable. A huge number of Israelis wait and dream for this day to arrive.
It's also worth mentioning that while Israel has existed since 1948 and Jewish people from around the world have been able to move there, Palestinians continue to be a stateless people. Palestinian refusal to accept a Jewish state (to whatever extent that refusal exists) hasn't prevented Israel from existing. But Western imperialism and Israeli refusal to accept a Palestinian state have prevented the establishment of a Palestinian state.
@@jsmn5059 it's the other way around. They could have had their self determination but they CHOSE not to accept it. If they did, they could have immigration laws in their state for their people, just like Israel has for Jews.
The root is the European Jews and Colonialist West trying to form a state in a country which already has people in it. Even after WW2, many countries offer s safe place for Jews. And not to mention illegal immigrant from Europe going into Palestine before 1948. Two state solution??? Why would native people give up half of their lands to Immigrant whom chase them out with guns and bomb???
You all, hold the signs, go free them.