Really enjoyed this one Shawn. I remember first seeing the metal box at my uncles, and it immediately caught my 10 year old eyes, and that was just the cd version! Little did I know what it contained, a couple years later he gave it to me as I always asked about it. When he explained it was the singer from the pistols I couldn't believe him, they felt like ancient history, the design of this felt like it had come from space. I could understand the sonic roads this album was connecting at the time but I just loved it's wildness (provided by rotten) and the bass driving everything else. It's remained a favourite, tho like you I tend not to listen to it too often, there's something about wanting to let it still have some power over me. I loved the Lacy album in the background, that was lovely. I need to track that down. Pleasure as always, hope you're keeping well my friend! ✌️
Hey Christophe. Funny how people come to the music in different ways. I remember the first time I ever heard VU’s White Light / WH. Whenever my parents would go visit a neighbor, their son had the record but never played it. I would always ask him to put it on but he refused. He simply said that he “hated” the album. Lol. Nevertheless, the black sleeve intrigued me. What was this music, I thought. Lol. And eventually he just gave me the record. And, at first, I was horrified by the sound. It seemed like chaos. But oddly, I couldn’t stop listening to it. Fascinated that anyone would like this violent, strange, abstract music. Until…I started to get it. Today it remains my favorite VU. Albums like Metal Box or WL/WH become highly personal in this way. We don’t need to listen every day. (Lydon’s lyrics can tear me up - if I really listen). But we know the music is there for us. Because…we will need that music again. The Steve Lacy album (Condor) is quickly becoming a favorite. There’s a real surreal quality to it. The melodies are beautiful but complex and abstract. But also rich once they reveal themselves to you. You’ll love it, I’m sure. Hope you are well. Cheers! Shawn.
Love the Pistols, but PIL was truly groundbreaking and probably more misunderstood. What a band. Wow I only have the square tin reissue of Metal Box! I think Metal Box and Unknown Pleasures are two of the most important post punk releases ever. John Lydon has amazing taste in music and when he's not putting on his "Rotten" persona he is a very intelligent, articulate and compassionate person. I'm always interested in what he is doing musically. The newer PIL stuff you can tell he's still searching. I like that in an artists when they're still willing to fail publicly because they still push themselves into uncomfortable areas that might be just beyond their reach. I loved hearing your take on this amazing band. Cheers...Ben
Well said, Ben. Almost all of Lydon’s output is at least worth hearing. But it’s the first three or maybe four that I found so dangerous at the time. I remember going to the local shop to buy Flowers of Romance when it was released. The band splintered and falling apart from creative differences and various substance abuse issues. Once the needle hit the groove I didn’t know what to think. Had the band dived even deeper into this strange, abstract world? Wow. This is one band I would have loved to experience live back in 1978/79. But I was a bit too young for that. Lol. Sorry for the delay in responding. It’s been a busy week. Cheers! Shawn
I know I refer to the early years of this community quite often Shawn. Maybe too much. But during the first couple of years there was a Metal Box thread going around. There were quite a few people showing their unblemished and very much blemished copies of the MB can. I saw them a few times live. They did not really dive into that album. They played more from the 86 'Album' and 87 'Happy' releases. In 1989 they played with Sugarcubes and New Order at Great Woods in Mansfield, Mass. I think they were promoting '9' at that point. You summed up PiL very well. He got a bad rep for a while. But I always thought that he knew exactly which way to go musically speaking. Well done S~ Rob/Boston
I saw them in the 80s and then again in the early 2000s. By the time Lydon had gotten to the mid to late 80s, he saw trying to work the Alternative Rock scene. Sadly, I think he lost his way; conversely the show from the 2000s saw the band move back to First Edition, Metal Box and Flowers of Romance during the live shows. They still played tracks from the later records. But you could see the crowd was responding to Poptones, Swan Lake and Religion more than the 80s hits. The 2000 show was great - Lydon in good voice and humorous. But it certainly lacked the danger of the 1978/79 band. I was a bit too young to see them but if there is one concert I could go back in time to see...PIL in NY back in 78/79 would be a dream come true. Sorry for the delay in responding. It's been a busy week. Cheers! Shawn
Nothing unique to Metal Box per say. Except that the bass from the 45 Rpm original is much deeper. I’m not an audiophile but I love that bass on Metal Box. Someone tried to tell me that Second Edition was a remix but I don’t hear it. The box is cool/fun but it’s also a pain. Lol. So buy at your own risk. Thanks for watching.
hey Shawn, I recall PiL being around back in the 80s, particularly that song with the lyric “may the road rise with you”, it was a single they played on MTV 120 Minutes. It didn’t grab me then but there are lots of artists that I have come to like much later, so I’ll check them out. I’m with you on the whole idea of ranking artists or records. I suppose it’s just another way to engage with the music but it seems kind of silly to me. I think most western music lovers, including me, can have difficulty finding a point of entry into appreciating music from other cultures, especially when it’s performed in an unfamiliar language or uses non-western scales or song structures. On the other hand, getting hooked into a band or genre from another culture can open up tangents to explore other genres. A cultural event hosted by Ethiopian students at my college gave me a firsthand introduction to Ethio-jazz, Nigerian juju music, Algerian rai, Congolese rumba and South African township jazz. That one event provided a lifetime’s worth of investigation and appreciation for a variety of great music and there’s still more to discover! Sharing that appreciation with other people doesn’t often work out but still worth the effort. Thanks and catch you on the next one. Cheers.
Hey Russell. Absolutely, in 1986 PIL defy all expectations an release ALBUM which contained the wonderful single, Rise (may the road rise w/ you). And I was also a regular watcher of 120 Mins (and Headbangers Ball). ALBUM is a great starting point - but it's very different than the more experimental albums that came before. The first three; First Edition, Metal Box and Flowers of Romance are the real creative high points for John Lydon and post-punk music On the topic of non-western music; Wow...it's a big topic for me. I feel strongly the the US is making some important mistakes culturally. We should be embracing the world and seeking change but, sadly, we don't. The example you give is perfect; the music of Africa alone we could spend a life-time studying and enjoying. Not because non-western is "exotic and strange" or some sort of novelty. Absolutely not. But because the art and culture rich and complex with a cultural language that has often moved far beyond western societies. But then you see these lists; 500 Greatest Guitar Players or Best Music of 2023. Lol. And 95% of the musicans are from North America or Europe (mostly the UK). What should people from Brazil or Egypt or Turkey or India think about Americans after reading a list like that? I bet the (increasingly) see Americans as out-of-touch. America should be taking the lead to embrace the human family. Instead, we are building d@mn walls around the country, wage endless wars and trying to re-capture some mythological past. Even in the VC, there are examples for our human family; we all communicate regularly with music/vinyl lovers from US, UK, Spain, Canada, Mexico, France, Sweden, Guatemala, South Africa, Germany, Japan on a regular basis. Sharing music, culture and even learning about each other. As Americans, shouldn't we be the most open minded given the country's history? We like to say the words; openness and understanding. But I fear our collective actions are very different. Worst still, we don't seem to realize what we have become. Hey...I am sorry for the long response but your comments were very thoughtful and the topic is vital in ways that reach beyond music and records. Thank you for watch and thinking these issue through. Cheers, my friend. Shawn.
Hey Shawn, thanks for your reply. I agree with you about the cultural insularity in the US (and western countries in general) where nothing outside the bubble even registers. As you already know, that point of view creates a lot of problems when applied to domestic and geopolitics (to say the least). But on a human cultural exchange level, I think there must be a point of entry to pierce the bubble. My mother lived next to a family from Croatia in St. Louis. She had never traveled outside the US or even heard of Croatia, but they invited her into their home and she learned about Croatian history, food, music art, etc. just by spending time with them. They are dear friends. This was her point of entry and she gained a new respect and appreciation that changed her perspective. Americans who travel to or live in other countries experience this all the time, as their point of entry is literal immersion into the local culture. It doesn’t happen enough, unfortunately, to counter-balance the fear, mistrust and demonization that fills the void of genuine cultural encounters like this. Like you, I have a lot of thoughts on this subject 😂 and I hope we will have future venues to discuss further. Cheers!
Shawn, I love that Steve Lacy album, '' The Condor''. The song, ''Morning Joy'' contains words written by Bob Kaufman, who was one of the first of the Beat poets/ writers. It's a prime example of Lacy's ''Art - Song'' compositions. Lacy used a Jazz framework but created his own language that was beyond category. His music had an Old World, European accent as opposed to an American accent. I guess living in Paris for decades will do that to you. Keith Levene is the main ingredient on the ''Metal Box'' album!!!
I didn’t know that about the track Morning Joy. It just adds another layer to the music for me. I grabbed the record very randomly. Just taking a chance on something new. Just beginning my trip with Lacy and I am sure there will be lots of great music to discover. There is no doubt that the young Keith Levene changed the rule book during those first three PIL albums. But don’t forget Wobbles and his extraordinary bass. What an incredible sound for a rock band to employ. Sorry for the delay in responding. Crazy week with work. Cheers! Shawn.
I still need to get a copy of "second coming" one day.. just because its so damned hard to get the records out of the box and i am always worried about scratching them.. Anyway , great video as always.. take care..
Yea I had the same issue and I did find a nice British pressing to spare myself the ordeal of getting the three LPs out of that d@mn can. Lol. But I ended up trading it away during negotiations for another record. That’s why I can’t have two or more copies of a particular record. I end up selling them or trading them. And Metal Box really does sound the way those tracks need to sound. Sorry for the delay. It’s been a busy week. Cheers! Shawn
I actually had a nice British pressing of Second Edition. But I ended up trading it away. And it’s true, the Metal Can is a bit of a hassle. But I love this record so much. It’s was my introduction to so much music. It’s lead me away from punk and garage into more experimental sounds. From the moment I hear that rumbling dub-ish bass I was hooked. Sorry for the delay in responding. It’s been a busy week. Be well and cheers! Shawn
NO! Wow - You have the inside info on all the best shows. Thank you for mentioning this - I would love to see this live. I did see PIL later in their career a couple of times. Last time was at the Crowfoot in Pontiac. I was actually very impressed; of course, it wasn't the dangerous band that I love from 1978/79/80. But Lydon was great. His voice was right on and it's very good at giving the audience what they wanted.It was all very professional...which is something the original band would have hated. Lol. Thanks again for mentioning the Jan Wobble, Metal Box: Rebuilt in Dub Tour. Looks like it's July 11at Third Man! Cheers. Shawn
@@MarsHottentot Give the record some time. Lydon’s voice is not immediate. But it’s ultimately perfectly suited to the music and the greater scope of the music and vision. When you’re ready, try the first album and Flower of Romance. Both are excellent.
@@the-vinyl-dreamscape5084 oh - I meant the Jah Wobble Metal Box "in Dub" album. I've been a big fan of the original since '95 and love all the PiL albums up to Album (yes, even that goofy "Live in Tokyo"). Ironically my first PiL was "This is What You Want, This is What You Get" which I got when it came out and immediately put away to not listen to again for about 25 years😂 I appreciate it now
Hey…thanks. Honestly, I’m not worried about growing my channel. And term SEO isn’t anything I’m interested in. But I appreciate your feedback. Be well.
Really enjoyed this one Shawn. I remember first seeing the metal box at my uncles, and it immediately caught my 10 year old eyes, and that was just the cd version! Little did I know what it contained, a couple years later he gave it to me as I always asked about it. When he explained it was the singer from the pistols I couldn't believe him, they felt like ancient history, the design of this felt like it had come from space. I could understand the sonic roads this album was connecting at the time but I just loved it's wildness (provided by rotten) and the bass driving everything else. It's remained a favourite, tho like you I tend not to listen to it too often, there's something about wanting to let it still have some power over me. I loved the Lacy album in the background, that was lovely. I need to track that down. Pleasure as always, hope you're keeping well my friend! ✌️
Hey Christophe. Funny how people come to the music in different ways. I remember the first time I ever heard VU’s White Light / WH. Whenever my parents would go visit a neighbor, their son had the record but never played it. I would always ask him to put it on but he refused. He simply said that he “hated” the album. Lol. Nevertheless, the black sleeve intrigued me. What was this music, I thought. Lol. And eventually he just gave me the record. And, at first, I was horrified by the sound. It seemed like chaos. But oddly, I couldn’t stop listening to it. Fascinated that anyone would like this violent, strange, abstract music. Until…I started to get it. Today it remains my favorite VU. Albums like Metal Box or WL/WH become highly personal in this way. We don’t need to listen every day. (Lydon’s lyrics can tear me up - if I really listen). But we know the music is there for us. Because…we will need that music again. The Steve Lacy album (Condor) is quickly becoming a favorite. There’s a real surreal quality to it. The melodies are beautiful but complex and abstract. But also rich once they reveal themselves to you. You’ll love it, I’m sure. Hope you are well. Cheers! Shawn.
Love the Pistols, but PIL was truly groundbreaking and probably more misunderstood. What a band. Wow I only have the square tin reissue of Metal Box! I think Metal Box and Unknown Pleasures are two of the most important post punk releases ever. John Lydon has amazing taste in music and when he's not putting on his "Rotten" persona he is a very intelligent, articulate and compassionate person. I'm always interested in what he is doing musically. The newer PIL stuff you can tell he's still searching. I like that in an artists when they're still willing to fail publicly because they still push themselves into uncomfortable areas that might be just beyond their reach. I loved hearing your take on this amazing band. Cheers...Ben
Well said, Ben. Almost all of Lydon’s output is at least worth hearing. But it’s the first three or maybe four that I found so dangerous at the time. I remember going to the local shop to buy Flowers of Romance when it was released. The band splintered and falling apart from creative differences and various substance abuse issues. Once the needle hit the groove I didn’t know what to think. Had the band dived even deeper into this strange, abstract world? Wow. This is one band I would have loved to experience live back in 1978/79. But I was a bit too young for that. Lol. Sorry for the delay in responding. It’s been a busy week. Cheers! Shawn
I know I refer to the early years of this community quite often Shawn. Maybe too much. But during the first couple of years there was a Metal Box thread going around. There were quite a few people showing their unblemished and very much blemished copies of the MB can. I saw them a few times live. They did not really dive into that album. They played more from the 86 'Album' and 87 'Happy' releases. In 1989 they played with Sugarcubes and New Order at Great Woods in Mansfield, Mass. I think they were promoting '9' at that point. You summed up PiL very well. He got a bad rep for a while. But I always thought that he knew exactly which way to go musically speaking. Well done S~
Rob/Boston
I saw them in the 80s and then again in the early 2000s. By the time Lydon had gotten to the mid to late 80s, he saw trying to work the Alternative Rock scene. Sadly, I think he lost his way; conversely the show from the 2000s saw the band move back to First Edition, Metal Box and Flowers of Romance during the live shows. They still played tracks from the later records. But you could see the crowd was responding to Poptones, Swan Lake and Religion more than the 80s hits. The 2000 show was great - Lydon in good voice and humorous. But it certainly lacked the danger of the 1978/79 band. I was a bit too young to see them but if there is one concert I could go back in time to see...PIL in NY back in 78/79 would be a dream come true. Sorry for the delay in responding. It's been a busy week. Cheers! Shawn
Sweet metal box good sir. It's awesome and I need to get a copy. I have the second edition which I believe is the same stuff if I remember correctly.
Nothing unique to Metal Box per say. Except that the bass from the 45 Rpm original is much deeper. I’m not an audiophile but I love that bass on Metal Box. Someone tried to tell me that Second Edition was a remix but I don’t hear it. The box is cool/fun but it’s also a pain. Lol. So buy at your own risk. Thanks for watching.
hey Shawn, I recall PiL being around back in the 80s, particularly that song with the lyric “may the road rise with you”, it was a single they played on MTV 120 Minutes. It didn’t grab me then but there are lots of artists that I have come to like much later, so I’ll check them out. I’m with you on the whole idea of ranking artists or records. I suppose it’s just another way to engage with the music but it seems kind of silly to me. I think most western music lovers, including me, can have difficulty finding a point of entry into appreciating music from other cultures, especially when it’s performed in an unfamiliar language or uses non-western scales or song structures. On the other hand, getting hooked into a band or genre from another culture can open up tangents to explore other genres. A cultural event hosted by Ethiopian students at my college gave me a firsthand introduction to Ethio-jazz, Nigerian juju music, Algerian rai, Congolese rumba and South African township jazz. That one event provided a lifetime’s worth of investigation and appreciation for a variety of great music and there’s still more to discover! Sharing that appreciation with other people doesn’t often work out but still worth the effort. Thanks and catch you on the next one. Cheers.
Hey Russell. Absolutely, in 1986 PIL defy all expectations an release ALBUM which contained the wonderful single, Rise (may the road rise w/ you). And I was also a regular watcher of 120 Mins (and Headbangers Ball). ALBUM is a great starting point - but it's very different than the more experimental albums that came before. The first three; First Edition, Metal Box and Flowers of Romance are the real creative high points for John Lydon and post-punk music On the topic of non-western music; Wow...it's a big topic for me. I feel strongly the the US is making some important mistakes culturally. We should be embracing the world and seeking change but, sadly, we don't. The example you give is perfect; the music of Africa alone we could spend a life-time studying and enjoying. Not because non-western is "exotic and strange" or some sort of novelty. Absolutely not. But because the art and culture rich and complex with a cultural language that has often moved far beyond western societies. But then you see these lists; 500 Greatest Guitar Players or Best Music of 2023. Lol. And 95% of the musicans are from North America or Europe (mostly the UK). What should people from Brazil or Egypt or Turkey or India think about Americans after reading a list like that? I bet the (increasingly) see Americans as out-of-touch. America should be taking the lead to embrace the human family. Instead, we are building d@mn walls around the country, wage endless wars and trying to re-capture some mythological past. Even in the VC, there are examples for our human family; we all communicate regularly with music/vinyl lovers from US, UK, Spain, Canada, Mexico, France, Sweden, Guatemala, South Africa, Germany, Japan on a regular basis. Sharing music, culture and even learning about each other. As Americans, shouldn't we be the most open minded given the country's history? We like to say the words; openness and understanding. But I fear our collective actions are very different. Worst still, we don't seem to realize what we have become. Hey...I am sorry for the long response but your comments were very thoughtful and the topic is vital in ways that reach beyond music and records. Thank you for watch and thinking these issue through. Cheers, my friend. Shawn.
Hey Shawn, thanks for your reply. I agree with you about the cultural insularity in the US (and western countries in general) where nothing outside the bubble even registers. As you already know, that point of view creates a lot of problems when applied to domestic and geopolitics (to say the least). But on a human cultural exchange level, I think there must be a point of entry to pierce the bubble. My mother lived next to a family from Croatia in St. Louis. She had never traveled outside the US or even heard of Croatia, but they invited her into their home and she learned about Croatian history, food, music art, etc. just by spending time with them. They are dear friends. This was her point of entry and she gained a new respect and appreciation that changed her perspective. Americans who travel to or live in other countries experience this all the time, as their point of entry is literal immersion into the local culture. It doesn’t happen enough, unfortunately, to counter-balance the fear, mistrust and demonization that fills the void of genuine cultural encounters like this. Like you, I have a lot of thoughts on this subject 😂 and I hope we will have future venues to discuss further. Cheers!
Shawn, I love that Steve Lacy album, '' The Condor''. The song, ''Morning Joy'' contains words written by Bob Kaufman, who was one of the first of the Beat poets/ writers. It's a prime example of Lacy's ''Art - Song'' compositions. Lacy used a Jazz framework but created his own language that was beyond category. His music had an Old World, European accent as opposed to an American accent. I guess living in Paris for decades will do that to you. Keith Levene is the main ingredient on the ''Metal Box'' album!!!
I didn’t know that about the track Morning Joy. It just adds another layer to the music for me. I grabbed the record very randomly. Just taking a chance on something new. Just beginning my trip with Lacy and I am sure there will be lots of great music to discover. There is no doubt that the young Keith Levene changed the rule book during those first three PIL albums. But don’t forget Wobbles and his extraordinary bass. What an incredible sound for a rock band to employ. Sorry for the delay in responding. Crazy week with work. Cheers! Shawn.
I still need to get a copy of "second coming" one day.. just because its so damned hard to get the records out of the box and i am always worried about scratching them..
Anyway , great video as always.. take care..
Yea I had the same issue and I did find a nice British pressing to spare myself the ordeal of getting the three LPs out of that d@mn can. Lol. But I ended up trading it away during negotiations for another record. That’s why I can’t have two or more copies of a particular record. I end up selling them or trading them. And Metal Box really does sound the way those tracks need to sound. Sorry for the delay. It’s been a busy week. Cheers! Shawn
i had a copy of 2nd ed, sold it thinking i'd get a metal box one day but i don't think i want to deal with that in my shelves, cool as it is
I actually had a nice British pressing of Second Edition. But I ended up trading it away. And it’s true, the Metal Can is a bit of a hassle. But I love this record so much. It’s was my introduction to so much music. It’s lead me away from punk and garage into more experimental sounds. From the moment I hear that rumbling dub-ish bass I was hooked. Sorry for the delay in responding. It’s been a busy week. Be well and cheers! Shawn
This is great!
I really appreciate you say that. Thank you. PIL was important to me; and they always will have a spot in my heart. Cheers! Shawn
Did you see that Jah Wobble is brining his Metal Box Reconstructed tour to Detroit this Summer?
NO! Wow - You have the inside info on all the best shows. Thank you for mentioning this - I would love to see this live. I did see PIL later in their career a couple of times. Last time was at the Crowfoot in Pontiac. I was actually very impressed; of course, it wasn't the dangerous band that I love from 1978/79/80. But Lydon was great. His voice was right on and it's very good at giving the audience what they wanted.It was all very professional...which is something the original band would have hated. Lol. Thanks again for mentioning the Jan Wobble, Metal Box: Rebuilt in Dub Tour. Looks like it's July 11at Third Man! Cheers. Shawn
I just picked the record up - definitely interesting
@@MarsHottentot Give the record some time. Lydon’s voice is not immediate. But it’s ultimately perfectly suited to the music and the greater scope of the music and vision. When you’re ready, try the first album and Flower of Romance. Both are excellent.
@@the-vinyl-dreamscape5084 oh - I meant the Jah Wobble Metal Box "in Dub" album. I've been a big fan of the original since '95 and love all the PiL albums up to Album (yes, even that goofy "Live in Tokyo"). Ironically my first PiL was "This is What You Want, This is What You Get" which I got when it came out and immediately put away to not listen to again for about 25 years😂 I appreciate it now
Shawn, could you improve the sound quality of your videos a little?
Thanxxx
I'll do my best. Not sure why this is suddenly happening but I'll work on it. Maybe I need to get an external mic? But thanks for the comment. Shawn
Good video but your channel not growing because your all videos are not SEO Optimized. thanks
Hey…thanks. Honestly, I’m not worried about growing my channel. And term SEO isn’t anything I’m interested in. But I appreciate your feedback. Be well.
ok thanks@@the-vinyl-dreamscape5084