Do you think the Western is dead? does the genre mean anything in particular to you? does it mean anything today? If there is a genre, director or movie you’d like Dave to discuss in an upcoming episode, let us know!
A friend of mine directed a neo Western in 2016, called Hell Or High Water. It did very well, drawing on Western Motifs. The fact is, a good Western is a deeply satisfying experience, that people long to see. The only issue is can directors make them good enough, now that the bar has been raised so high.
I don’t think the western will ever truly be dead to be honest. The genre is such an important part of the history of our entertainment culture that we still see it being used in our films, television, and video games. Now admittedly it is not as frequent nor will it probably ever be as in the golden age of Hollywood but you can’t deny that we still see terrific examples of westerns being made. In the past few years we have seen True Grit, 3:10 to Yuma, Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2, No Country for Old Men, DeJango Unchained, Breaking Bad, Hell on Wheels, Dead Wood, Fallout New Vegas, Open Range, and numerous others. When I think of the popularity of those projects and how steadily they seem to be released I have a hard time buying into the notion that somehow the western genre is no longer relevant.
When the first westerns were made, the frontier West was a recent experience. Many people who had taken part in the settlement of the territories west of the Mississippi river were still around. Some of the people who had been lawmen, outlaws, Indian war veterans, and adventurers were telling their stories, Wyatt Earp among them. What I find interesting is how the western movies reflected not so much the settlement of the "wild frontier," but the myth that was already being constructed as the real events were happening in the 1860s and on through the 1890s. Most Americans did not go west in those years. Most of those who did never fired a shot in anger, never experienced an Indian attack, never saw a saloon brawl and never saw a bank robbery. They were busy establishing farms and ranches, building railroads, setting up businesses and that sort of thing. The "wild" part of the West in which Native American Indians roamed freely over the plains hunting buffalo and warring with other tribes was already waning in the 1860s. By 1890 these people who once called the region their own were confined on reservations and in many cases left near starvation as corrupt government officials diverted funds and food resources to themselves and their co-conspirators. The last major conflict with a western tribe was in December, 1890-January, 1891. The Sioux in South Dakota had taken up the Ghost Dance and this frightened agents and nearby settlers so that they called in the army, which only made things worse. Communities far from the scene were organizing militias and preparing for attack. The Sioux, however, were hardly able to sustain a brief resistance. It was winter and they had few weapons and hardly any food. The massacre at Wounded Knee would never have taken place if people had been looking at the reality of the situation instead of feeding from the myth. Buffalo Bill Cody, who probably did more than any one person to sustain and spread the myth, came to the Pine Ridge reservation later to make a movie about the whole affair. Unfortunately, it has been lost. But the very idea of dramatizing this sad event says a lot about how the media of entertainment had overwhelmed efforts to portray reality. One part of the western myth can be seen in the film clips shown in this presentation. They show the western towns where ugly, ill-kempt gunslingers were on every street corner and in every saloon. In the myth gunfights were common and he who drew fastest always won. In reality, these incidents largely took place in what might be called the "urban west." The gamblers, prostitutes, con men, thieves and cut throats always gravitated to the boom towns of the time-- cattle towns like Abilene and Dodge City and mining towns like Deadwood, Leadville and Tombstone. Towns in areas where farming drove the economy were much less violent. Abilene, Kansas, for example, became a relatively quiet town after the railroads extended out to other towns and the cowboys from Texas drove their herds there. As for gunfights, there were some that involved a lot of people and a lot of shooting, but there were hardly any where two men faced off on a dusty street and shot it out. In fact, the whole story of the fast draw was invented by Hollywood and the gun belts worn in westerns from the 1920a to the 1980s were based on a rig invented in the 1920s. More recent westerns have been better at costuming and adherence to at least the look of the time period. None of this is to say that there is anything wrong with the myth or the genre it inspired. All societies have myths that guide people's actions and connect them to something larger and more heroic. Western movies are usually cathartic. They build up a situation in which evil is threatening the establishment of civilization on the frontier and the gentle people who represent civilization, moral values and cooperative endeavors. The hero, often reluctantly, steps forward to fight evil and generally survives having won the battle. In the real world things may not go that way, but in the mythical world of the western, at least, the good guys win. The western has survived, but there are far fewer films made in that genre than there were a few decades ago. Westerns still exist, in a way, in other genres. Science Fiction films, Cops and Robbers movies and even war movies today often reflect elements common to the western genre. As we move farther from the time when the West was wild, it is only natural that its image will be less relatable to people than it was in the 20th century, but the basic myth that created the western will remain part of the American entertainment scene as long as the myth remains entangled in the fabric of the nation's self image. GF
MoMA please listen when I say you should produce more of these videos. Dave Kehr's voice is amazingly soothing, this was such a joy to watch while also providing some great analysis. In the age of the video essay it's nice to hear a matured voice, not one fresh out of university.
My Grandmother, may she rest in peace, sat me down through many of these movies as I was raised by her. She had a rough life and these films were her kicks for a sense of self-heroism. She was a hero to me. Needless to say, she was crazy about Clint Eastwood. She would be two years older than him now. Thank you for this fantastic video.
I was born in 1998 and grew up spending a lot of time with my grandparents. I used to get so excited knowing that I could go over and watch a "cowboy" movie with them. I think this point here is exactly what me fall in love with the west. As I've gotten older, I've had the pleasure of experiencing more of the genre and learning about the history. The other important factor is Red Dead Redemption. Being able to be in the story rather than watch it was an exciting thing during my adolescence. And so, I guess my point is that the western's flame still burns hot in this 21 year olds heart
It's sad that we can't have westerns like we used to. I've seen a few that have come out in the past 2-3 years and each time I'm disappointed because the filmmakers keep missing the point. The only western to come out recently that does the western genre right is Red Dead Redemption...and that's a video game! At least the development team studied the genre instead of making a shoot 'em up that looks like a commercial. (I'm talking about the 2017 film Hickok.)
I was fortunate to see The Good, the Bad and the Ugly first run at a local theater at age 15, and then all the other spaghetti westerns first run as well. We instantly recognized the difference from American westerns. I'm still obsessed with Leone westerns to this day, and their Morricone music.
Leone also wanted Fonda because of just how much of a shock it would be to open up the movie with one of Hollywood's best heroes murdering an entire family.
Hello I loved listening to this video! I’ve just turned 30 and I’ve been exploring the western genre and spaghetti western genres. I started with the good the bad and the ugly and the searchers. I think this era’s audience is looking for something that doesn’t drag out and is action packed full of big personalities and explosions. I have to admit even know I didn’t grow up with the genre but found it and love it, I have patience and love the journey of these movies but when I show friends they become uninterested. I wish there was a renaissance.
Tombstone, followed by Hateful Eight to me were the best modern westerns. I wish this genre would comeback. I’ve just recently watched Stagecoach for the first time and absolutely loved it.
I think Red Dead Redemption could be a classic western. Sure, they're video games, but they definitely have some of the spirit of the old classic westerns.
Thank you for tackling the Western! It's such an important part of US/film history. I think it's a shame that as a society we've moved on from it. I grew up on a cattle ranch and was exposed to the real thing as well as western films! So to me, it's always been accessible as part of my childhood. As a film teacher today, the first reaction of the young folks is to grimace or complain when I talk about them. But when I screen a more accessible one, it blows their mind. I've inspired a few new students to pick up the mantle and become interested in the genre.
One question: since this essay treated ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST as a milestone production, a kind of wake for the genre, why does it make no reference to Peckinpah's WILD BUNCH, which was filmed at about the same time? It stands as an even more emphatic punctuation point for the genre's progression.
I must echo John Warthen's comment below regarding the lack of any mention of Sam Peckinpah - especially when you (Kehr) make no mention of his masterpiece, The Wild Bunch. There are so many great moments in that film that it is right up there among my top Western films along with Once Upon A Time In The West, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, and Unforgiven.
I used to watch these movies as well as Western shows when I was a child and the genre brings up feelings of nostalgia. There is something very masculine about this particular genre and I would love to see a resurgence of the genre.
I think that although no longer being such a dominant force in American culture, Westerns have experienced a kind of rebirth. Playing the video games Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2 is in some ways even better than watching a movie and has been a genuine introduction to the genre for many young people. They were also 2 games that were incredible successes for Rockstar Studios generating more money than they ever thought they would get for a Western video game. Hell on Wheels was an incredibly well acted series that experienced success on tv. True Grit, 3:10 to Yuma, There Will Be Blood, Assassination of Jesse James by Coward Robert Ford, Magnificent Seven, Hateful Eight, Django Unchained, Meek's Cutoff, Slow West, The Revenant,Wind River, Hostiles, Hell or High Water, No Country for Old Men, Power of the Dog, Open Range are some of the best movies made in the genre in the last 20 years or so. I'm sure there may be a few I've forgotten. The point being the Western will perhaps no longer be on top of the genre filmmaking mountain but it is too much of an American institution to ever be truly forgotten. It keeps on resurfacing and it will always continue to do so. Every new generation will have its own spin on it.
This video of yours is simply genious. I had an idea about simplyfying problems, mainly interpersonal problems, to understand a situation, as a would-be psychologist, and i was looking for a video which explains the mechanism of western movies. Your video is more than I expected, because you brought in an explanation of how the collective consciousness is elaborating its traumas in movies. I find your words very true. It's one of the most genious videos I have ever seen. Please continue making analysis videos! The battle of the good and bad, is nothing else than the unconscious, instinctual type of persons who think they can do what they want and they defeat others by theatening them, on the other side is the consciousness, when you know what is yours, what are your rights, and which people belong to your tribe, who respect each-other.
What a great, high quality, and intelligent video. You have really inspired to watch the classic westerns (they were always on TV in my house as a child but I didn't really pay attention). I'll definitely try Stagecoach, some of John Houston's films, the Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, and Once Upon A Time in the West. Thank you.
This is a great video. I will definitely be showing segments of it to my Film history students. I especially loved the split screen images of Henry Fonda. I only wish you had included two seminal westerns: “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid“ (The top grossing film of 1969, a year AFTER “once upon a time…”) as well as “Dances with Wolves”, which was the first Hollywood film to showcase Native Americans using their own language, thus humanizing them. Maybe in your next video!
I get that this is an old video. Though, what I think we've learned from Tarantino's recent western is that things can be remade depending on context. It all comes down to what story you want to tell in that setting. So, my challenge to anyone writing one is to ask, what story has never been told that could have taken place in the West? I think one way it could evolve and change is by letting those iconic styled characters have their moments, but not let it be the focal point of the story. Or, find a new perspective for those characters. Or focus on the lives of the characters affected by the iconic ones. I've been writing a lot lately and I have at least a single inkling of a story in my mind.
Personally I believe Quentin Tarantino has been the greatest savior of the western genre, he made it cool as hell to research bizarre cult movies and to uninhibitedly love a variety of westerns & to give kudos to the behind the scenes crews, the special effect masters, editors, directors and musical artists. I have to admit, the western is no where near what it used to be back in the 60’s, but there is still great westerns being made. Just this last year “That Dirty Black Bag” was released, a well done t.v. series made in the style of Sergio Leone & Quentin Tarantino & Clint Eastwood…I thought it was brilliant. Anyway, I really did enjoy this video, you did an outstanding job on it. 👍🏽🙏🏽
In the 1960s and early 70s I grew heartily tired of Westerns, except for Spaghetti Westerns. It seemed to be an easy programme choice for tv. Now I can see remastered copies I enjoy them.
for me personally , as much as i never was a big fan of western movies i adored the spaghetti westerns once i discovered them , just the personal feuds , vendetta , struggle anyway , the personal concern of an individual with unrealistic badass shooting skills , an classic dramatic villain and some cheap shots/movie props and of course that majestic soundtrack
I don't think the genre is dead. I also grew up loving Westerns in the 60's and 70's, so the Western holds a special place in my heart. FYI: I am about to begin writing a western novel, but I have a little more thinking to do. I appreciate the points you raised in your video (which I realize is about Western films, but also has parallels to Western Literature). Here are some top notch Westerns, made after the Western was 'supposedly' dead: News of the World, Hostiles, 3:10 to Yuma (Bale and Crow); True Grit (Bridges); The Sisters Brothers, The Revenant, Butcher's Crossing, Bone Tomahawk, Magnificent 7 (Washington); Django in Chains; Deadwood (the movie); Open Range; No Country for Old Men; Unforgiven, Tombstone; Dances with Wolves; Young Guns, Silverado, Lonesome Dove, and others. Finally, let's give a shout out to Robert Duvall and Kevin Costner for their role in keeping the Western alive.
Westerns are the most watched and adored by the people around the world, even today! This genre is NEVER going to die, rather flourish more in coming years.
Great essay. I'm slowly but surely falling in love with old Westerns and this movie only got me more interested. Probably have to rewatch Once Upon a Time in the West now.
Not to be completely nihilistic, but I don't think that the western in particular died, it's more like film in the general sense of the art has. In the time of the western, you had a completely different culture, in regards to society and it's relation to film. What once a trivial novelty to one generation, had turned into a full-on experience for another. The intersection of the two people going to see films back then, compelled its makers to ground their work first in human experience, and while that experience was often a one-sided viewpoint, there was consideration for themes and subjects. Because there was little in the way of special effects back then, they had to rely upon strong narratives which connected with people, and images that reflected that narrative. The films that connected with people back then, are able to today, because they were crafted to convey very real, human feelings. They are transcendent of their time, because they aren't reliant on a prior story, or pop-culture relevance of their current world. At their base, they speak to the human condition, which in my humble opinion, is the marker of good art. There are films that do the same today, but because of the downright ruinous state of the world, you don't get a lot of them. On one hand, you have studios who are only willing to finance films they know will make them boatloads of money, and the other, you have an audience that only has so much money to spend on entertainment, they're only really going to invest in something if they consider it worthwhile to them. This creates an ever-narrowing bottleneck for everyone involved, as moviegoers don't explore much outside of the few things they get enjoyment out of, and studios only produce for the markets that are guaranteed to make them money or prestige. Not a lot of room for art, or humanist storytelling under those conditions. People are still moved by a good story though, and in that respect, aspects of the western still have a place in cinema (albeit they may have to modify a bit more to communicate the American experience today i.e. - Hostiles, The Retreval), but the discussion itself is dead if cinema isn't modified from its current form. Like all art, film is half artistic expression, and half industry/institution. Unlike other forms of art however, film is almost strictly created for mass consumption, therefore it lives and dies by the public's interest in it. If the film industry and institution can find a way to make film more accessible to people, possibly through the revival of more social aspects of the cinema, I think that we'd see renewed interest in the western, among other genres. Then again, shows like The Big Bang Theory get some of the highest ratings in television, so while you can lead a horse to water...
Throughout the 20th century, the population of the U.S. shifted from rural to urban and suburban, and a lot of people today don't have a lot of experience living in the wilderness and outdoors the way people did when westerns were popular. I'd argue that has a lot to do with the decline of the western. Urban crime dramas have replaced them because they're easier for today's audiences to relate to. Instead of cowboys and indians, it's cops and robbers.
Wow this is truly a wonderful analysis of the genre as a whole. I became enamored with westerns about 2-3 years ago and it sparked the fuel for a passion of cinema in my mid 20s. Didn't expect u to rail on Unforgiven like that though XD. Thank you for the video !
I agree the omission of Peckinpah is a material error and not merely a matter of critical taste. He not only made great films; he dealt specifically with modernity and the passing of ages in them. And what about the work Budd Boetticher and Randolph Scott did, working within the Western tropes to explore different aspects of human nature and culture? The fact that the world is externally so different today has not walled us off from appreciating and valuing those internal vistas. Cinema is the American art form and the Western the most American genre. As much as I enjoy and admire the Leone "Westerns", the emphasis here is problematic. Leone's films are more post-Western than some transitional link. There are no recognizable Americans in the films, despite Leone's devotion to detail. The characters do not speak or act or move like the Americans who inhabit classical Westerns. Everything in Leone's films is so archly stylized that it all works within the barren, arid and alien landscape(to someone raised on traditional Westerns) . The color pallete is off, the sound, the dialog -- almost every aspect of the Leone sensibility is only obliquely related to Westerns, apart from the obvious fact that he has located his alternate reality within what was once that familiar onvention. It is exhillerating to see Leone occupy and transform so known a space to create an entirely altered atmosphere and it works beautifully with his reworking of the myths and meanings of Westerns. What may be dead (though perhaps not for all times) is the Western as a self-sustaining market in the way that Superhero/Comic films are in the way that they not only dominate the dollars, screen space and creative oxygen but become the predominate frame through which ideas are expressed. What other genres have been starved to the point they need life-support to be sustained? I do not believe Westerns are extinct and/or irrelevant or rendered museum pieces. Back in the '50's and '60's, when "Westerns were everywhere" on TV and in the theaters, it wasn't as if if audiences were hunkered down around a campfire or sildling up to the movie-houses on horseback. Someone might have said that "we got to start thinkin' beyond our guns. Those days are closin' fast" fifty years before the golden age of the Western, but such stories captivated audiences generations removed anyway. Maybe we used to delude ourselves that we were still like those cowboys; we can still delude ourselves that it's from where and from whom we have came.
I think the western is much like the pirate genre in movies, you could say it's dead but there is something so special and unique to the genre that I'll always hope someone will come along and either breathe new life into it, or at least catch one of the embers and make a small flame once again. I found this video not just as a fan of the genre, but also as an author inspired by both the westerns and samurai fiction which I think can be compared surprisingly well to westerns. I've been working on a fantasy novel heavily inspired by the character arcs and themes of the old west and I appreciate this video for helping me understand them just a little better
This is a beautiful video and it has so wonderfully and succinctly summed up my favourite genre. Thank you. I've always dreamed of the American West because of these films, they were my childhood, the Ford westerns with my Father and the Leone ones as a young adult, the narrative is still so relevant today but sadly I think the pace of the storytelling and the poignancy of its themes, just do not have a commercial audience in modern cinema.
Great work once again, Dave. Too true about abiding devotion to the films of one's youth despite their flaws-I almost felt personally affronted when you [rightly] ridiculed 'Outland.'
Although you don't see very many of the same themes in Classic Westerns as you do with Western movies made past the 1960s, I'd argue that in order for the genre to stay alive it needs to grow and evolve and move past some of the central themes and tropes that established the genre. You now have modern westerns such as "No Country for Old Men" or "Proposition" and you see themes more along the lines of morality and the difference between the hero and the villain becomes sort of a grey area. Classic Western borrowed these themes but they become a lot more in depth as the genre of Contemporary Westerns started to grow. It may not the most popular genre as it used to be so that results in less off these films being made, but when the Classic Western was being made it wasn't always treated with the most care and often used as a programming special for big companies trying to make money by incorporating American ideals in their movies and television. It wasn't very often that John Ford was the director either in most of these cases. However even Contemporary Westerns incorporate these ideals in them as well, but sometimes turning them on their head or exposing the American dream to be something we all failed at. This kind of filmmaking should be praised for the way it had pushed the genre forward. These films are a love letter to what the genre stood for, while adding something new to the genre. The Western is not dead, It's only gotten more human.
I was also born in the mid 50s and grew up in the era of TV movies in UK, many of which were westerns as British films of the time were mainly comedy or horror. In the 70s I was in Germany with the army (BAOR,NATO) and we had a cinema in the barrack camp that showed all types of films. I saw there Once Upon a Time in the West and Blazing Saddles along with others such as Barbarella and Dirty Harry. OUATITW had the most impact on me than any other western that I had seen, more so than the Clint films, Clint was the man at that time. John Wayne had slipped from my sphere of admiration because of his war movies because at that time we were involved with action in Cyprus and Northern Ireland and I had stale feelings towards war films but even in those Wayne was playing a cowboy role.
I was never interested in Westerns, I thought they were boring, then I played Red Dead Redemption 2. That game’s story shook me, I had never experienced something so unique. Now today I watched Django Unchained, and I feel like westerns need more love, it’s a great genre, and I’m sad to see that it’s died out because of people like me, who just didn’t understand why they’re so good. I’m glad I learned what makes a good movie, and plan on making my own someday.
I am writing a Western novel currently. I am not willing to allow it to die, nor the morality or the beautiful heroism that it portrayed during it's golden era. I hope I can play a small part in bringing about it's revival in it's purest form, without the cynicism that has more to do with our modern world than the cycle of human history as it usually is.
I think that looking back, so many westerns were made as a reflection of the era they were in. The classical films reflected a booming America, coming out of WWII where as the Leone’s stuff was gritty and related heavily to a changing society. The issue with modern day westerns is that they often try to replicate the movies of the past without appealing to the audiences of today. Make a western with the themes of a modern day America and it could be more successful. So long as America still has a culture, you could make a western the defines it
Really very interesting. There have been Westerns that I've enjoyed quite a bit but the we're remakes like Tombstone with Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer. I think there's a place for them but not like back in their most popular days. Thanks for the video.
I think the Western film is history. Most of the characters are social constructs that are now a dying part of our society. Today we have a president, who is part of that dying age. The patriarch is on the way out. It is probably just as well. I grew up with those values and enjoyed western films. Today they don't hold much for me.
Bit late to the party given I watched this video three years later, but I thought I'd share a few thoughts :) First and foremost, exquisite content, so thank you MoMa and thank you Kehr. Secondly, I don't think Western is dead, I think it's reinvented to fit into a much more fluid context than the one it was originated in. One of the examples that come to mind is that the hero's essence of causing conflict for a "bigger/higher cause/reason" still remains, but it's not so much within the scope of society as it is within the scope of him/herself (as in their mind or in their past, etc). And yet, in these reinvented versions, by overcoming the hesitation to take action (another change from the original where actions were impetuous), the hero ends up fulfilling his role and, thus, saving whatever is at risk in the plot. And yes, I like to think Western still means something substantial nowadays, we just have to dig into the tropes with a more nuanced pair of lenses.
Great contemporary Western is Chloe Zhao’s The Rider (2017) shot on location in Pine Ridge, SD. Ironic that the film’s director, a Chinese woman, would made such a successful transformation of the genre. In any case, Westerns will survive in some form due mostly to the fact that the Great Plains, the Rockies and the desert Southwest are landscapes indelibly stamped on the American psyche. There’s no escaping the tales called forth by the land.
My list of the 10 best westerns: 1. The Good the Bad the Ugly 2.The Wild bunch 3. McCabe and Mrs. Miller 4. The Magnificent Seven (original) 5. Unforgiven 6. One Upon A Time In The West 7. Tombstone 8. Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid 9. Jeremiah Johnson 10. Rio Bravo
As a huge fan of western movies, especially spaghetti-westerns, I also think the genre is pretty much dead. There are some recent classics like the ones you named and others such as The Revenant and the 3:10 to Yuma remake, but it's not enough to save the genre. I do think however that cinema as a whole has started to die out. Now it's only remakes, cash grab sequels and over the top Marvel action movies...
the western is my all time favorite genre of movie and literature, so much so that it has influenced much about me. My dad was very into westerns and his interest rubbed off on me; I have very fond memories of watching these movies with him growing up. My mom wouldnt like me watching violent movies as a kid, but when she wasnt home, my dad would put on a western and let me watch with him. Its a very nostalgic thing to me...
I think a great Western can be made but you may not get the audiences rushing to it. I have one in mind that I will soon begin writing the script for. I'm hoping people will adopt it down the road much as they did Bladerunner. You just need a good story and storytelling technique of the past genres is fine.
Thanks for the refresher, I’m surrounded by a band of Superhero movies and they seem to be gaining ground. Would like to seen Shane included, also The Big Country and one modern try, Lonesome Dove.
I enjoyed your video but I don’t agreed that the genre is dead. It has evolved but is still very much alive. I was surprised to hear you say that you really liked Bone Tomahawk. I am a fan of both the western and horror and was enjoying Bone Tomahawk until...so shocked by the one scene that it overshadowed the rest of the film for me. I am looking forward to watching your other conversations on film. Thank you
The western isn’t dead, it’s just evolved. You talk about contemporary westerns and sci-fi westerns and I think a lot of elements of that can be seen in many modern movies and shows. Recent Star Wars shows The Mandalorian and The Book of Bobba Fett really lean into George Lucas’ western inspiration for the original movie and those shows have some heavy western vibes in them to the point that you could easily switch out the sci-fi elements for traditional western elements and they would still work as great standalone shows. Logan is another one that despite its comic book origins, works as a contemporary western in and of itself. Something I feel like they could’ve done with the recent Terminator movie but missed the mark on. But even looking at terminator 2, there are elements of that movie that wouldn’t have been out of place in a revisionist western. And of course there’s shows like breaking bad which is undisputedly western and doesn’t try to hide it either. These movies may seem drastically different but the western boom paved the way for them and is still embedded in modern storytelling.
Western genre was the best entertaining segment till now in the history of international cinema Particularly Sergio leones classics are immortals which cannot be recreated ever To add the feather in the cap was Annio Marricone who gave the enchanting music which has no match ever I think the new generation should still create such western films
I'd like to see a new western movie set a lot like the Red Dead Redemption series. While I knew about Westerns way before I played RDR, I didnt got into it until I played RDR1. Something that is more set on reality, with a relatable protagonist, but injecting some fantasy like the Red Dead series. Too bad no one makes them anymore, I'd love to see one in a theater
First thanks for sharing this video. I don't think the Western is dead if anything it's needed more than ever in America to help understand what is going on. It acts as a way to understand the politics of the day. Its become more complex as a society has evolved. I love the classics of the genre, they are now informing the new films, there's a conversation going on between them - so they can't be dead. Even when they are no one Westerns, it takes on a different form, from Gangsters in the 1930s to Sci-fi and fantasy (and Taxi Driver Etc). It's just evolved for the times, for a new audience that has a lot of exploring to do like the first settlers and pioneers of country.
I enjoy your lecture. I recommend you to watch an indonesia movie entitled Marlina the murderer in 4 acts. It’s labeled by critics as a new western genre, satay western.
Thoughtful, well reasoned analysis, Dave. And some of these important Westerns in the series I will happily watch again and again. But for pure entertainment, I'd prefer MoMA's recent program saluting Republic Pictures. I would have liked it even better if you'd shown 100% B-Westerns, the kind with no more moral complexity. That is what we face all day in the real world. Republic’s outdoor action adventures seldom aspired to artistic pretensions. They were, in John Wayne’s words, “simple, uncomplicated stories…folklore in its purest form.” Message pictures and moral complexity would be left to elite auteur directors; Republic’s technically proficient assembly line offered black and white values with clearly drawn heroes who lived by a righteous and ethical code which unintentionally taught and guided several generations of the finest Americans. I never tire of them -- vehicles for Wayne, the Three Mesquiteers, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Rocky Lane, Sunset Carson, Don "Red" Barry, Wild Bill Elliott. Never tire of these pictures!
I think that westerns arent quite dead yet. The actual setting and style might be outside of a few film makers work, like Eastwood and Tarantino, but the spirit of the westerns or at least some of the cynical reflection of the spaghetti westerns continues to leave a lasting impression on modern films and even other mediums like video games, some examples that come to mind are Red Dead Redemption 1, and Logan (the last Wolverine movie)
I agree that unfortunately many movies became too referential, or “about other movies,” not singular works but reliant and interconnected franchises, building off other movies to generate money by targeting what is already established and known. However, I don’t think that this is too general a claim to apply to all movies, there are certainly great independent films created today, as well as in the seventies.
I'm 36 years old. Call me a traitor to my generation, which I consider myself to be on many thoughts and ideas, but the western genre to me has such a deep embodiment of courage, grit, strength and all else morals and ethics. If you wanted something you had to work hard for it. I have always enjoyed reading western novels and watching one or two western movies a week by various authors and producers. I like how there isn't any computer graphics for one. Those people falling off their horse or being thrown out a window are called stuntmen for a reason. A great story with actors who know and live their part to make a movie is talent. Plus, who doesn't like to read or watch a good western and see the good defeat the bad? And, there isn't a lot of explicit material.
Western isn't dead. Classic Cinema however is. All movies people make are extremely similar. Everyone enjoyed the classics, and now the studios make the same things over and over, because people will pay to see it.
I don’t think the western genre is dead as much as it’s evolved or changed past its origin. While the days of Spaghetti Westerns are long past we still have different styles and genres of westerns, as well as western influences in other media. From straight up westerns like Django Unchained to movies heavily influenced by westerns like Logan, which takes a lot of the western tropes like the importance of family or the ever changing world with a protagonist who struggles to keep up. It also takes deep dive into the superhero genre, while almost critiquing it at the same time. Plus there’s the newer subgenres, like neo/contemporary westerns, space westerns, etc. Shows like Firefly, Mandalorian, and Cowboy Bebop that hold true to classic western tropes and stories, while putting them into almost foreign scenes. It’s in video games, too, with games like Red Dead Redemption, Fallout New Vegas, and tons of strange western indie games, like West of Dead or the Evil West. I don’t think the western will ever truly be dead. It’ll just change to fit with the times and the audience of that day. And if you ask me, I think that’s awfully poetic. The western genre, one that has a trope of times changing and folks feeling left behind by it, changing to fit the younger generations.
Very interesting video. Would you say that's Logan is a western like how a great many other people nowadays have been saying. Obviously it takes a lot from the movie Shane.
Do you think the Western is dead? does the genre mean anything in particular to you? does it mean anything today? If there is a genre, director or movie you’d like Dave to discuss in an upcoming episode, let us know!
A friend of mine directed a neo Western in 2016, called Hell Or High Water. It did very well, drawing on Western Motifs. The fact is, a good Western is a deeply satisfying experience, that people long to see. The only issue is can directors make them good enough, now that the bar has been raised so high.
9:44 “At some point in the 70’s, movies stopped being about life and started being about other movies.”
Hit the nail directly on the head there, sir.
I don’t think the western will ever truly be dead to be honest. The genre is such an important part of the history of our entertainment culture that we still see it being used in our films, television, and video games. Now admittedly it is not as frequent nor will it probably ever be as in the golden age of Hollywood but you can’t deny that we still see terrific examples of westerns being made. In the past few years we have seen True Grit, 3:10 to Yuma, Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2, No Country for Old Men, DeJango Unchained, Breaking Bad, Hell on Wheels, Dead Wood, Fallout New Vegas, Open Range, and numerous others. When I think of the popularity of those projects and how steadily they seem to be released I have a hard time buying into the notion that somehow the western genre is no longer relevant.
When the first westerns were made, the frontier West was a recent experience. Many people who had taken part in the settlement of the territories west of the Mississippi river were still around. Some of the people who had been lawmen, outlaws, Indian war veterans, and adventurers were telling their stories, Wyatt Earp among them. What I find interesting is how the western movies reflected not so much the settlement of the "wild frontier," but the myth that was already being constructed as the real events were happening in the 1860s and on through the 1890s.
Most Americans did not go west in those years. Most of those who did never fired a shot in anger, never experienced an Indian attack, never saw a saloon brawl and never saw a bank robbery. They were busy establishing farms and ranches, building railroads, setting up businesses and that sort of thing. The "wild" part of the West in which Native American Indians roamed freely over the plains hunting buffalo and warring with other tribes was already waning in the 1860s. By 1890 these people who once called the region their own were confined on reservations and in many cases left near starvation as corrupt government officials diverted funds and food resources to themselves and their co-conspirators.
The last major conflict with a western tribe was in December, 1890-January, 1891. The Sioux in South Dakota had taken up the Ghost Dance and this frightened agents and nearby settlers so that they called in the army, which only made things worse. Communities far from the scene were organizing militias and preparing for attack. The Sioux, however, were hardly able to sustain a brief resistance. It was winter and they had few weapons and hardly any food. The massacre at Wounded Knee would never have taken place if people had been looking at the reality of the situation instead of feeding from the myth.
Buffalo Bill Cody, who probably did more than any one person to sustain and spread the myth, came to the Pine Ridge reservation later to make a movie about the whole affair. Unfortunately, it has been lost. But the very idea of dramatizing this sad event says a lot about how the media of entertainment had overwhelmed efforts to portray reality.
One part of the western myth can be seen in the film clips shown in this presentation. They show the western towns where ugly, ill-kempt gunslingers were on every street corner and in every saloon. In the myth gunfights were common and he who drew fastest always won. In reality, these incidents largely took place in what might be called the "urban west." The gamblers, prostitutes, con men, thieves and cut throats always gravitated to the boom towns of the time-- cattle towns like Abilene and Dodge City and mining towns like Deadwood, Leadville and Tombstone. Towns in areas where farming drove the economy were much less violent. Abilene, Kansas, for example, became a relatively quiet town after the railroads extended out to other towns and the cowboys from Texas drove their herds there. As for gunfights, there were some that involved a lot of people and a lot of shooting, but there were hardly any where two men faced off on a dusty street and shot it out. In fact, the whole story of the fast draw was invented by Hollywood and the gun belts worn in westerns from the 1920a to the 1980s were based on a rig invented in the 1920s. More recent westerns have been better at costuming and adherence to at least the look of the time period.
None of this is to say that there is anything wrong with the myth or the genre it inspired. All societies have myths that guide people's actions and connect them to something larger and more heroic. Western movies are usually cathartic. They build up a situation in which evil is threatening the establishment of civilization on the frontier and the gentle people who represent civilization, moral values and cooperative endeavors. The hero, often reluctantly, steps forward to fight evil and generally survives having won the battle. In the real world things may not go that way, but in the mythical world of the western, at least, the good guys win.
The western has survived, but there are far fewer films made in that genre than there were a few decades ago. Westerns still exist, in a way, in other genres. Science Fiction films, Cops and Robbers movies and even war movies today often reflect elements common to the western genre. As we move farther from the time when the West was wild, it is only natural that its image will be less relatable to people than it was in the 20th century, but the basic myth that created the western will remain part of the American entertainment scene as long as the myth remains entangled in the fabric of the nation's self image.
GF
MoMA please listen when I say you should produce more of these videos. Dave Kehr's voice is amazingly soothing, this was such a joy to watch while also providing some great analysis. In the age of the video essay it's nice to hear a matured voice, not one fresh out of university.
kazooieman Absolutely agree, this is a fantastic series!
My Grandmother, may she rest in peace, sat me down through many of these movies as I was raised by her. She had a rough life and these films were her kicks for a sense of self-heroism. She was a hero to me. Needless to say, she was crazy about Clint Eastwood. She would be two years older than him now.
Thank you for this fantastic video.
Don't know wether western movies are dead, but my guess would be that with Red Dead Redemption 2, young people haven't lost any interest in the genre
I was born in 1998 and grew up spending a lot of time with my grandparents. I used to get so excited knowing that I could go over and watch a "cowboy" movie with them. I think this point here is exactly what me fall in love with the west. As I've gotten older, I've had the pleasure of experiencing more of the genre and learning about the history. The other important factor is Red Dead Redemption. Being able to be in the story rather than watch it was an exciting thing during my adolescence. And so, I guess my point is that the western's flame still burns hot in this 21 year olds heart
It's sad that we can't have westerns like we used to. I've seen a few that have come out in the past 2-3 years and each time I'm disappointed because the filmmakers keep missing the point. The only western to come out recently that does the western genre right is Red Dead Redemption...and that's a video game! At least the development team studied the genre instead of making a shoot 'em up that looks like a commercial. (I'm talking about the 2017 film Hickok.)
I was fortunate to see The Good, the Bad and the Ugly first run at a local theater at age 15, and then all the other spaghetti westerns first run as well. We instantly recognized the difference from American westerns. I'm still obsessed with Leone westerns to this day, and their Morricone music.
this is exactly an example of how a film analysis should be. Perfect job
Leone also wanted Fonda because of just how much of a shock it would be to open up the movie with one of Hollywood's best heroes murdering an entire family.
Hello I loved listening to this video! I’ve just turned 30 and I’ve been exploring the western genre and spaghetti western genres. I started with the good the bad and the ugly and the searchers. I think this era’s audience is looking for something that doesn’t drag out and is action packed full of big personalities and explosions. I have to admit even know I didn’t grow up with the genre but found it and love it, I have patience and love the journey of these movies but when I show friends they become uninterested. I wish there was a renaissance.
Tombstone, followed by Hateful Eight to me were the best modern westerns. I wish this genre would comeback. I’ve just recently watched Stagecoach for the first time and absolutely loved it.
I think Red Dead Redemption could be a classic western. Sure, they're video games, but they definitely have some of the spirit of the old classic westerns.
Thank you so much for this enlightening and heartfelt commentary.
This is so beautifully explained and is so insightful. I really enjoyed this video, thank you!
Thank you for tackling the Western! It's such an important part of US/film history. I think it's a shame that as a society we've moved on from it. I grew up on a cattle ranch and was exposed to the real thing as well as western films! So to me, it's always been accessible as part of my childhood. As a film teacher today, the first reaction of the young folks is to grimace or complain when I talk about them. But when I screen a more accessible one, it blows their mind. I've inspired a few new students to pick up the mantle and become interested in the genre.
One question: since this essay treated ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST as a milestone production, a kind of wake for the genre, why does it make no reference to Peckinpah's WILD BUNCH, which was filmed at about the same time? It stands as an even more emphatic punctuation point for the genre's progression.
Not sure the world knows how lucky it is to have Mr. Kehr opening up like this.
I am happy to watch you talk about any genre of film. Whether I like the genre or not, it is good to learn a little.
Wow - amazing video, this was wonderful. Thank You. Love your narration also.
I must echo John Warthen's comment below regarding the lack of any mention of Sam Peckinpah - especially when you (Kehr) make no mention of his masterpiece, The Wild Bunch. There are so many great moments in that film that it is right up there among my top Western films along with Once Upon A Time In The West, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, and Unforgiven.
I used to watch these movies as well as Western shows when I was a child and the genre brings up feelings of nostalgia. There is something very masculine about this particular genre and I would love to see a resurgence of the genre.
I think that although no longer being such a dominant force in American culture, Westerns have experienced a kind of rebirth. Playing the video games Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2 is in some ways even better than watching a movie and has been a genuine introduction to the genre for many young people. They were also 2 games that were incredible successes for Rockstar Studios generating more money than they ever thought they would get for a Western video game. Hell on Wheels was an incredibly well acted series that experienced success on tv. True Grit, 3:10 to Yuma, There Will Be Blood, Assassination of Jesse James by Coward Robert Ford, Magnificent Seven, Hateful Eight, Django Unchained, Meek's Cutoff, Slow West, The Revenant,Wind River, Hostiles, Hell or High Water, No Country for Old Men, Power of the Dog, Open Range are some of the best movies made in the genre in the last 20 years or so. I'm sure there may be a few I've forgotten. The point being the Western will perhaps no longer be on top of the genre filmmaking mountain but it is too much of an American institution to ever be truly forgotten. It keeps on resurfacing and it will always continue to do so. Every new generation will have its own spin on it.
This video of yours is simply genious. I had an idea about simplyfying problems, mainly interpersonal problems, to understand a situation, as a would-be psychologist, and i was looking for a video which explains the mechanism of western movies. Your video is more than I expected, because you brought in an explanation of how the collective consciousness is elaborating its traumas in movies. I find your words very true. It's one of the most genious videos I have ever seen. Please continue making analysis videos! The battle of the good and bad, is nothing else than the unconscious, instinctual type of persons who think they can do what they want and they defeat others by theatening them, on the other side is the consciousness, when you know what is yours, what are your rights, and which people belong to your tribe, who respect each-other.
We need more of these series by Dave Kehr.
What a great, high quality, and intelligent video. You have really inspired to watch the classic westerns (they were always on TV in my house as a child but I didn't really pay attention). I'll definitely try Stagecoach, some of John Houston's films, the Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns, and Once Upon A Time in the West. Thank you.
This is a great video. I will definitely be showing segments of it to my Film history students. I especially loved the split screen images of Henry Fonda.
I only wish you had included two seminal westerns: “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid“ (The top grossing film of 1969, a year AFTER “once upon a time…”) as well as “Dances with Wolves”, which was the first Hollywood film to showcase Native Americans using their own language, thus humanizing them. Maybe in your next video!
Dave Kehr is a national treasure. Period.
An absolutely wonderful commentary about a genre many of us love. Thank you.
I get that this is an old video. Though, what I think we've learned from Tarantino's recent western is that things can be remade depending on context. It all comes down to what story you want to tell in that setting. So, my challenge to anyone writing one is to ask, what story has never been told that could have taken place in the West? I think one way it could evolve and change is by letting those iconic styled characters have their moments, but not let it be the focal point of the story. Or, find a new perspective for those characters. Or focus on the lives of the characters affected by the iconic ones.
I've been writing a lot lately and I have at least a single inkling of a story in my mind.
Personally I believe Quentin Tarantino has been the greatest savior of the western genre, he made it cool as hell to research bizarre cult movies and to uninhibitedly love a variety of westerns & to give kudos to the behind the scenes crews, the special effect masters, editors, directors and musical artists. I have to admit, the western is no where near what it used to be back in the 60’s, but there is still great westerns being made. Just this last year “That Dirty Black Bag” was released, a well done t.v. series made in the style of Sergio Leone & Quentin Tarantino & Clint Eastwood…I thought it was brilliant.
Anyway, I really did enjoy this video, you did an outstanding job on it. 👍🏽🙏🏽
In the 1960s and early 70s I grew heartily tired of Westerns, except for Spaghetti Westerns. It seemed to be an easy programme choice for tv. Now I can see remastered copies I enjoy them.
You had me with Once Upon a Time in the West. You sealed the deal with Bone Tomahawk. Great video!
for me personally , as much as i never was a big fan of western movies i adored the spaghetti westerns once i discovered them , just the personal feuds , vendetta , struggle anyway , the personal concern of an individual with unrealistic badass shooting skills , an classic dramatic villain and some cheap shots/movie props and of course that majestic soundtrack
I don't think the genre is dead. I also grew up loving Westerns in the 60's and 70's, so the Western holds a special place in my heart. FYI: I am about to begin writing a western novel, but I have a little more thinking to do. I appreciate the points you raised in your video (which I realize is about Western films, but also has parallels to Western Literature). Here are some top notch Westerns, made after the Western was 'supposedly' dead: News of the World, Hostiles, 3:10 to Yuma (Bale and Crow); True Grit (Bridges); The Sisters Brothers, The Revenant, Butcher's Crossing, Bone Tomahawk, Magnificent 7 (Washington); Django in Chains; Deadwood (the movie); Open Range; No Country for Old Men; Unforgiven, Tombstone; Dances with Wolves; Young Guns, Silverado, Lonesome Dove, and others. Finally, let's give a shout out to Robert Duvall and Kevin Costner for their role in keeping the Western alive.
Westerns are the most watched and adored by the people around the world, even today! This genre is NEVER going to die, rather flourish more in coming years.
Wonderful essay.
Great essay. I'm slowly but surely falling in love with old Westerns and this movie only got me more interested. Probably have to rewatch Once Upon a Time in the West now.
Not to be completely nihilistic, but I don't think that the western in particular died, it's more like film in the general sense of the art has.
In the time of the western, you had a completely different culture, in regards to society and it's relation to film. What once a trivial novelty to one generation, had turned into a full-on experience for another. The intersection of the two people going to see films back then, compelled its makers to ground their work first in human experience, and while that experience was often a one-sided viewpoint, there was consideration for themes and subjects. Because there was little in the way of special effects back then, they had to rely upon strong narratives which connected with people, and images that reflected that narrative. The films that connected with people back then, are able to today, because they were crafted to convey very real, human feelings. They are transcendent of their time, because they aren't reliant on a prior story, or pop-culture relevance of their current world. At their base, they speak to the human condition, which in my humble opinion, is the marker of good art.
There are films that do the same today, but because of the downright ruinous state of the world, you don't get a lot of them. On one hand, you have studios who are only willing to finance films they know will make them boatloads of money, and the other, you have an audience that only has so much money to spend on entertainment, they're only really going to invest in something if they consider it worthwhile to them. This creates an ever-narrowing bottleneck for everyone involved, as moviegoers don't explore much outside of the few things they get enjoyment out of, and studios only produce for the markets that are guaranteed to make them money or prestige. Not a lot of room for art, or humanist storytelling under those conditions.
People are still moved by a good story though, and in that respect, aspects of the western still have a place in cinema (albeit they may have to modify a bit more to communicate the American experience today i.e. - Hostiles, The Retreval), but the discussion itself is dead if cinema isn't modified from its current form. Like all art, film is half artistic expression, and half industry/institution. Unlike other forms of art however, film is almost strictly created for mass consumption, therefore it lives and dies by the public's interest in it. If the film industry and institution can find a way to make film more accessible to people, possibly through the revival of more social aspects of the cinema, I think that we'd see renewed interest in the western, among other genres. Then again, shows like The Big Bang Theory get some of the highest ratings in television, so while you can lead a horse to water...
Throughout the 20th century, the population of the U.S. shifted from rural to urban and suburban, and a lot of people today don't have a lot of experience living in the wilderness and outdoors the way people did when westerns were popular. I'd argue that has a lot to do with the decline of the western. Urban crime dramas have replaced them because they're easier for today's audiences to relate to. Instead of cowboys and indians, it's cops and robbers.
Wow this is truly a wonderful analysis of the genre as a whole. I became enamored with westerns about 2-3 years ago and it sparked the fuel for a passion of cinema in my mid 20s. Didn't expect u to rail on Unforgiven like that though XD. Thank you for the video !
Outland 1981. I've been trying to remember the name of this movie. I liked it personally.
I am glad to rewatch old westerns and to watch what comes along rhese days occasionally
I agree the omission of Peckinpah is a material error and not merely a matter of critical taste. He not only made great films; he dealt specifically with modernity and the passing of ages in them. And what about the work Budd Boetticher and Randolph Scott did, working within the Western tropes to explore different aspects of human nature and culture? The fact that the world is externally so different today has not walled us off from appreciating and valuing those internal vistas.
Cinema is the American art form and the Western the most American genre. As much as I enjoy and admire the Leone "Westerns", the emphasis here is problematic. Leone's films are more post-Western than some transitional link. There are no recognizable Americans in the films, despite Leone's devotion to detail. The characters do not speak or act or move like the Americans who inhabit classical Westerns. Everything in Leone's films is so archly stylized that it all works within the barren, arid and alien landscape(to someone raised on traditional Westerns) . The color pallete is off, the sound, the dialog -- almost every aspect of the Leone sensibility is only obliquely related to Westerns, apart from the obvious fact that he has located his alternate reality within what was once that familiar onvention. It is exhillerating to see Leone occupy and transform so known a space to create an entirely altered atmosphere and it works beautifully with his reworking of the myths and meanings of Westerns.
What may be dead (though perhaps not for all times) is the Western as a self-sustaining market in the way that Superhero/Comic films are in the way that they not only dominate the dollars, screen space and creative oxygen but become the predominate frame through which ideas are expressed. What other genres have been starved to the point they need life-support to be sustained?
I do not believe Westerns are extinct and/or irrelevant or rendered museum pieces. Back in the '50's and '60's, when "Westerns were everywhere" on TV and in the theaters, it wasn't as if if audiences were hunkered down around a campfire or sildling up to the movie-houses on horseback. Someone might have said that "we got to start thinkin' beyond our guns. Those days are closin' fast" fifty years before the golden age of the Western, but such stories captivated audiences generations removed anyway. Maybe we used to delude ourselves that we were still like those cowboys; we can still delude ourselves that it's from where and from whom we have came.
I think the western is much like the pirate genre in movies, you could say it's dead but there is something so special and unique to the genre that I'll always hope someone will come along and either breathe new life into it, or at least catch one of the embers and make a small flame once again.
I found this video not just as a fan of the genre, but also as an author inspired by both the westerns and samurai fiction which I think can be compared surprisingly well to westerns. I've been working on a fantasy novel heavily inspired by the character arcs and themes of the old west and I appreciate this video for helping me understand them just a little better
Wow, I never realized Western films were so nuanced, thanks for sharing this, its given me a lot of insight!
This is a beautiful video and it has so wonderfully and succinctly summed up my favourite genre. Thank you. I've always dreamed of the American West because of these films, they were my childhood, the Ford westerns with my Father and the Leone ones as a young adult, the narrative is still so relevant today but sadly I think the pace of the storytelling and the poignancy of its themes, just do not have a commercial audience in modern cinema.
Great work once again, Dave. Too true about abiding devotion to the films of one's youth despite their flaws-I almost felt personally affronted when you [rightly] ridiculed 'Outland.'
Western is such a wanderful genre ,more movies should be made on this genre.
Although you don't see very many of the same themes in Classic Westerns as you do with Western movies made past the 1960s, I'd argue that in order for the genre to stay alive it needs to grow and evolve and move past some of the central themes and tropes that established the genre. You now have modern westerns such as "No Country for Old Men" or "Proposition" and you see themes more along the lines of morality and the difference between the hero and the villain becomes sort of a grey area. Classic Western borrowed these themes but they become a lot more in depth as the genre of Contemporary Westerns started to grow. It may not the most popular genre as it used to be so that results in less off these films being made, but when the Classic Western was being made it wasn't always treated with the most care and often used as a programming special for big companies trying to make money by incorporating American ideals in their movies and television. It wasn't very often that John Ford was the director either in most of these cases. However even Contemporary Westerns incorporate these ideals in them as well, but sometimes turning them on their head or exposing the American dream to be something we all failed at.
This kind of filmmaking should be praised for the way it had pushed the genre forward. These films are a love letter to what the genre stood for, while adding something new to the genre.
The Western is not dead, It's only gotten more human.
I was also born in the mid 50s and grew up in the era of TV movies in UK, many of which were westerns as British films of the time were mainly comedy or horror. In the 70s I was in Germany with the army (BAOR,NATO) and we had a cinema in the barrack camp that showed all types of films. I saw there Once Upon a Time in the West and Blazing Saddles along with others such as Barbarella and Dirty Harry. OUATITW had the most impact on me than any other western that I had seen, more so than the Clint films, Clint was the man at that time. John Wayne had slipped from my sphere of admiration because of his war movies because at that time we were involved with action in Cyprus and Northern Ireland and I had stale feelings towards war films but even in those Wayne was playing a cowboy role.
I was never interested in Westerns, I thought they were boring, then I played Red Dead Redemption 2. That game’s story shook me, I had never experienced something so unique. Now today I watched Django Unchained, and I feel like westerns need more love, it’s a great genre, and I’m sad to see that it’s died out because of people like me, who just didn’t understand why they’re so good. I’m glad I learned what makes a good movie, and plan on making my own someday.
I am writing a Western novel currently. I am not willing to allow it to die, nor the morality or the beautiful heroism that it portrayed during it's golden era.
I hope I can play a small part in bringing about it's revival in it's purest form, without the cynicism that has more to do with our modern world than the cycle of human history as it usually is.
I think that looking back, so many westerns were made as a reflection of the era they were in. The classical films reflected a booming America, coming out of WWII where as the Leone’s stuff was gritty and related heavily to a changing society. The issue with modern day westerns is that they often try to replicate the movies of the past without appealing to the audiences of today. Make a western with the themes of a modern day America and it could be more successful. So long as America still has a culture, you could make a western the defines it
Really very interesting. There have been Westerns that I've enjoyed quite a bit but the we're remakes like Tombstone with Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer. I think there's a place for them but not like back in their most popular days. Thanks for the video.
I think the Western film is history. Most of the characters are social constructs that are now a dying part of our society. Today we have a president, who is part of that dying age. The patriarch is on the way out. It is probably just as well. I grew up with those values and enjoyed western films. Today they don't hold much for me.
Bit late to the party given I watched this video three years later, but I thought I'd share a few thoughts :)
First and foremost, exquisite content, so thank you MoMa and thank you Kehr. Secondly, I don't think Western is dead, I think it's reinvented to fit into a much more fluid context than the one it was originated in. One of the examples that come to mind is that the hero's essence of causing conflict for a "bigger/higher cause/reason" still remains, but it's not so much within the scope of society as it is within the scope of him/herself (as in their mind or in their past, etc). And yet, in these reinvented versions, by overcoming the hesitation to take action (another change from the original where actions were impetuous), the hero ends up fulfilling his role and, thus, saving whatever is at risk in the plot. And yes, I like to think Western still means something substantial nowadays, we just have to dig into the tropes with a more nuanced pair of lenses.
Great contemporary Western is Chloe Zhao’s The Rider (2017) shot on location in Pine Ridge, SD. Ironic that the film’s director, a Chinese woman, would made such a successful transformation of the genre. In any case, Westerns will survive in some form due mostly to the fact that the Great Plains, the Rockies and the desert Southwest are landscapes indelibly stamped on the American psyche. There’s no escaping the tales called forth by the land.
My list of the 10 best westerns:
1. The Good the Bad the Ugly
2.The Wild bunch
3. McCabe and Mrs. Miller
4. The Magnificent Seven (original)
5. Unforgiven
6. One Upon A Time In The West
7. Tombstone
8. Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid
9. Jeremiah Johnson
10. Rio Bravo
I enjoyed the remake of 3:10 To Yuma with Russell Crow.
Wonderful commentary!
Very much enjoy your video essays. Hope you continue them.
As a huge fan of western movies, especially spaghetti-westerns, I also think the genre is pretty much dead. There are some recent classics like the ones you named and others such as The Revenant and the 3:10 to Yuma remake, but it's not enough to save the genre.
I do think however that cinema as a whole has started to die out. Now it's only remakes, cash grab sequels and over the top Marvel action movies...
the western is my all time favorite genre of movie and literature, so much so that it has influenced much about me. My dad was very into westerns and his interest rubbed off on me; I have very fond memories of watching these movies with him growing up. My mom wouldnt like me watching violent movies as a kid, but when she wasnt home, my dad would put on a western and let me watch with him. Its a very nostalgic thing to me...
Great video
I am truly moved by your video. Thank you!
Such a great video thanks
Haven't thought of Dolomite as a Western but they way u describe Early Westerns it's spot on 🤔
Urban Western
I think a great Western can be made but you may not get the audiences rushing to it. I have one in mind that I will soon begin writing the script for. I'm hoping people will adopt it down the road much as they did Bladerunner. You just need a good story and storytelling technique of the past genres is fine.
Great stuff. Thanks! And more please.
nn9 Absolutely!! I second your statement!!
Thanks for the refresher, I’m surrounded by a band of Superhero movies and they seem to be gaining ground. Would like to seen Shane included, also The Big Country and one modern try, Lonesome Dove.
This was fantastic. Thanks, Dave!
Would just like to say that this video was extremely helpful for me during my Undergraduate degree research - so thank you for that.
I miss the old westerns. I do have hope of a resurgence seeing the popularity of Red Dead Redemption 2.
Hi Dave, thanks for a great piece. What are your thoughts on Tombstone? I noticed it wasn't mentioned. Thanks!
Nice show, thanks.
Great video. Strong work!
Red Dead Redemption 2 got me into Westerns. Best $60's I've ever spent in my life. Westerns are now my favorite genre 😂.
Absolutely wonderful presentation! I don't believe for a second the western genre is dead. Maybe asleep, but not dead.
I enjoyed your video but I don’t agreed that the genre is dead. It has evolved but is still very much alive.
I was surprised to hear you say that you really liked Bone Tomahawk. I am a fan of both the western and horror and was enjoying Bone Tomahawk until...so shocked by the one scene that it overshadowed the rest of the film for me.
I am looking forward to watching your other conversations on film.
Thank you
The western isn’t dead, it’s just evolved. You talk about contemporary westerns and sci-fi westerns and I think a lot of elements of that can be seen in many modern movies and shows. Recent Star Wars shows The Mandalorian and The Book of Bobba Fett really lean into George Lucas’ western inspiration for the original movie and those shows have some heavy western vibes in them to the point that you could easily switch out the sci-fi elements for traditional western elements and they would still work as great standalone shows. Logan is another one that despite its comic book origins, works as a contemporary western in and of itself. Something I feel like they could’ve done with the recent Terminator movie but missed the mark on. But even looking at terminator 2, there are elements of that movie that wouldn’t have been out of place in a revisionist western. And of course there’s shows like breaking bad which is undisputedly western and doesn’t try to hide it either. These movies may seem drastically different but the western boom paved the way for them and is still embedded in modern storytelling.
Western genre was the best entertaining segment till now in the history of international cinema
Particularly Sergio leones classics are immortals which cannot be recreated ever
To add the feather in the cap was Annio Marricone who gave the enchanting music which has no match ever
I think the new generation should still create such western films
I'd like to see a new western movie set a lot like the Red Dead Redemption series. While I knew about Westerns way before I played RDR, I didnt got into it until I played RDR1. Something that is more set on reality, with a relatable protagonist, but injecting some fantasy like the Red Dead series. Too bad no one makes them anymore, I'd love to see one in a theater
First thanks for sharing this video. I don't think the Western is dead if anything it's needed more than ever in America to help understand what is going on. It acts as a way to understand the politics of the day. Its become more complex as a society has evolved. I love the classics of the genre, they are now informing the new films, there's a conversation going on between them - so they can't be dead. Even when they are no one Westerns, it takes on a different form, from Gangsters in the 1930s to Sci-fi and fantasy (and Taxi Driver Etc). It's just evolved for the times, for a new audience that has a lot of exploring to do like the first settlers and pioneers of country.
I enjoy your lecture. I recommend you to watch an indonesia movie entitled Marlina the murderer in 4 acts. It’s labeled by critics as a new western genre, satay western.
Thoughtful, well reasoned analysis, Dave. And some of these important Westerns in the series I will happily watch again and again. But for pure entertainment, I'd prefer MoMA's recent program saluting Republic Pictures. I would have liked it even better if you'd shown 100% B-Westerns, the kind with no more moral complexity. That is what we face all day in the real world. Republic’s outdoor action adventures seldom aspired to artistic pretensions. They were, in John Wayne’s words, “simple, uncomplicated stories…folklore in its purest form.” Message pictures and moral complexity would be left to elite auteur directors; Republic’s technically proficient assembly line offered black and white values with clearly drawn heroes who lived by a righteous and ethical code which unintentionally taught and guided several generations of the finest Americans. I never tire of them -- vehicles for Wayne, the Three Mesquiteers, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Rocky Lane, Sunset Carson, Don "Red" Barry, Wild Bill Elliott. Never tire of these pictures!
I think that westerns arent quite dead yet. The actual setting and style might be outside of a few film makers work, like Eastwood and Tarantino, but the spirit of the westerns or at least some of the cynical reflection of the spaghetti westerns continues to leave a lasting impression on modern films and even other mediums like video games, some examples that come to mind are Red Dead Redemption 1, and Logan (the last Wolverine movie)
9:45 is the truest thing I've heard!!
It will never die. They just need good scrips and shot with less than a 100 million dollar budget.
I agree that unfortunately many movies became too referential, or “about other movies,” not singular works but reliant and interconnected franchises, building off other movies to generate money by targeting what is already established and known. However, I don’t think that this is too general a claim to apply to all movies, there are certainly great independent films created today, as well as in the seventies.
Please. bring Westerns Movies again since long time 2 see
I'm 36 years old. Call me a traitor to my generation, which I consider myself to be on many thoughts and ideas, but the western genre to me has such a deep embodiment of courage, grit, strength and all else morals and ethics. If you wanted something you had to work hard for it. I have always enjoyed reading western novels and watching one or two western movies a week by various authors and producers. I like how there isn't any computer graphics for one. Those people falling off their horse or being thrown out a window are called stuntmen for a reason. A great story with actors who know and live their part to make a movie is talent. Plus, who doesn't like to read or watch a good western and see the good defeat the bad? And, there isn't a lot of explicit material.
Highly enjoyable.
Im cureently working on a film that takes the mythos of the western and brings it to new places... hopefully youll hear about it soon
Western isn't dead. Classic Cinema however is. All movies people make are extremely similar. Everyone enjoyed the classics, and now the studios make the same things over and over, because people will pay to see it.
Awesome
I don’t think the western genre is dead as much as it’s evolved or changed past its origin. While the days of Spaghetti Westerns are long past we still have different styles and genres of westerns, as well as western influences in other media. From straight up westerns like Django Unchained to movies heavily influenced by westerns like Logan, which takes a lot of the western tropes like the importance of family or the ever changing world with a protagonist who struggles to keep up. It also takes deep dive into the superhero genre, while almost critiquing it at the same time.
Plus there’s the newer subgenres, like neo/contemporary westerns, space westerns, etc. Shows like Firefly, Mandalorian, and Cowboy Bebop that hold true to classic western tropes and stories, while putting them into almost foreign scenes. It’s in video games, too, with games like Red Dead Redemption, Fallout New Vegas, and tons of strange western indie games, like West of Dead or the Evil West.
I don’t think the western will ever truly be dead. It’ll just change to fit with the times and the audience of that day. And if you ask me, I think that’s awfully poetic. The western genre, one that has a trope of times changing and folks feeling left behind by it, changing to fit the younger generations.
Very interesting video. Would you say that's Logan is a western like how a great many other people nowadays have been saying. Obviously it takes a lot from the movie Shane.
Westerns won't die. People are too nastalgic. This is why people still visit Tombstone AZ.